This man is one of the best hitting coaches there is. He has been a national champion at OU and has been a head coach at Pepperdine and Ole Miss. His resume speaks for itself. Enough said.
This is not to start an argument, but to get a better understanding; I am always curious when people say 'enough said' because of someone's resume of winning. No question he is a great coach/manager and he makes some great points here. Obviously, when talking about a specific aspect of the swing, everything will not be mentioned, or touched upon, but there are certain things that should be pointed out when talking about the Launch and Approach of the swing-front heel plant, back knee/heel0which he mentions heel, back elbow/front shoulder, position/direction of the knob of the bat at heel plant. Yes, I understand this video is mainly about timing, but he does go into the back heel. At least mention the areas of the hitters position at 'Launch; front heel plant, back knee, heel in and up, front shoulder tilted down, knob pointed in direction of catcher, etc. Just because someone is, or was, a great hitter, or is/was a great coach, does not mean they automatically are a great hitting coach. There are too many examples of that in the game; Albert Pujols-great hitter, but no real idea how to explain and teach what he does. Mark McGuire-relatively good hitter that doesn't fully understand, or at least does not teach what really happens in the swing. Maybe he is just going along with what everyone else says to get back into the game/hall. If that is possible. And there are many more examples. A great coach from USC once said "it's about knowing what you are good at doing and do it. I wasn't a great hitting coach, etc, but I was a great recruiter and I could pick guys that could hit." Again, Pat brings up some good points and maybe he didn't touch on the front shoulder being down because that isn't what this video was about, but he does mention other aspects of the swing related to this portion of the swing, which I refer to as Launch...once the front heel plants on the ground.
No argument needed. The response was posted on this video to the few that took the time to try to discredit one of the better hitting instructors and coaches in the business. You don't have to agree with anything or everything he says about hitting, but his reputation and resume speaks for itself.
I would say he is a lot closer to what happens then most of these idiots on TH-cam....he is real close on the timing aspect...From what I understand he has the stride start when arm is moving forward before release which is early but this is the closest explanation of timing that I have heard on TH-cam
This gentleman makes many great points, such as when he is talking about the hitter that is coming toward the pitcher. This is correct. What he doesn't tell you is HOW to do this. This is accomplished by a good hip coil, good separation and riding out the back hip to swing initiation, which is when the front foot gets down. This will keep your lower half alive. . .as he talks about.
Coach Harrison, What you said is very true - it is not two distinct movements - the stride and foot plant - but it is continuous. And, yes, a hitter wuth a conventional stride woukd begin striding when the pitcher's arm begins to come forward. However, the leg lift hitters like Josh Donaldson start their leg lift much earlier, shortly after the pitcher breaks his hands. yes, this complicates things but it is now becoming more widespread.
Not sure I understand this... if the swing is to be "one continuous motion" AND the hitter is supposed to have his foot down by the time the pitcher releases the ball (as suggested by Coach Harrison), then the hitter WILL be waiting since the avg pitch takes around .4 seconds to reach the plate and a good swing will take .14 to .16 to complete. While I agree that the motion has to be fairly continuous, I believe that it is still 2-steps - step, then swing (hip turn and forward hand movement starts at foot plant) A great swing can't possibly be step-swing, simultaneously.
Jeffery Lamont, You have to distinguish between foot strike (touch down) and heel plant/drop. There is a slight interval in between. A hitter's heel plant/drop does not occur before a pitcher releases the ball with a more traditional stride (not one with a substantial leg lift). However, with a leg lift a la Josh Donaldson, foot strike occurs as the ball is well on its way to the plate.
Joseph Yurko I agree that there is that slight break between, and that is part of what I was saying; the hitting coaches (MLB and college) that I have spoken with all teach the stride/load and swing as two separate, but connected parts of the swing. My comment was more that it can't be one continuous movement
Joseph Yurko agreed, but as part of a sequence that has to be able to be stopped or interrupted, otherwise, if you listen to Coach Harrison, you would almost believe that every time a hitter strides, he has to swing. Even as part of a sequence, they are still two distinct parts of it.
Maybe you haters should watch this...seems to me this old fella aint so wrong after all. But hey.. I assume you all are major league players hating on this guy and not fat beer swilling amateurs. So I could be wrong.
It's like you're racing your BMWs against modified Ford tauruses for pink slips and losing. To give dudes a fair shot at your BMW pink slip. I don't get it.
He didn't say to force the rotation. He said to TIME everything off of the of the back hip and torso. The swing begins on the back leg, not the front leg. This is his entire point, and he presented it well.
Abduct the back leg, Please. No pivoting on the back leg. No spinning of the back leg at high level. Back leg naturally turns after drive/abduction. Please.
Well...I can tell you.he is wrong because I played in the Padres organization when Tony made the tape.I went from 6 homeruns to 24 homeruns in one year because I wasnt rushing the ball.You dont stand still.I hit in the cage with Tony.You get the foot down with a hitting rhythm so its not mechanical.If you do it correctly with a rhythm,you will not get fooled on breaking balls and you see the location and pitch more clearly.He can talk all he wants but I know it works.Any hitter that goes into slumps rush the ball and stride causing head movement.Slow feet..quick upper body rotation and hands.Period!
I don't see where he in any way discounted the role of upper body rotation and quick hands. He's making the case that the legs play a crucial role in being able to drive the ball, and he's absolutely right. Starting with the front foot step just doesn't make sense from a physics perspective. It might have helped you overcome some deficiency in your timing, but it still doesn't mean that it's correct. Placebo pills also make people feel better. Doesn't make them medicine. In other words, it was all in your head. Thinking about stepping fixed your timing. But imagine how much better a hitter you could have been if your legs were more involved, giving you more power.
It is VERY important to WATCH what elite hitters do and DON'T listen to what they say they do. Many times they have no idea what it is they do but they sure can do it.
I think that this is one of many ways to hit. When you step and stop to analyze the pitch, you need to keep your weight back so you have saved power loaded in your back leg. This guy suggests that hitting from stand still is bad because the only power you have saved up is in your hands. Watch how his batter demonstrates a "bad" load and swing. His weight goes from 80(back side)/20(front side) to 50/50 which if you step and stop you are SUPPOSED stay 80/20. There are MLB hitters that do this step and stop method because they are strong enough to do so. I don't agree with this guy at all.
Think of physics; if you step and stop, then there is going to be an equal and opposite reaction to that step and stop motion. Keeping the head centered and back will be near impossible. It is more inclined to continue to move after the the swing begins/front heel plants. The weight shift should be a fluid motion, not a start, stop, start motion. Gather your weight over your back foot and continue forward in a single motion as you land into your front foot-this is where your head stops as you begin your swing. Obviously, this is a basic description without going into every detail, but if you start, stop, the start again, you are losing momentum and weight shift into your front foot and ultimately, lose any ground force you create through your weight shift. Yes, you can get weight shift without a stride, it's just rocking motion like Albert Pujols earlier in his career.
DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THIS EVEN WHEN HE MAKES HIS ASSISTANT DO A "DRY SWING" HE IS OUT INFRONT STEP EARLY AND KEEP YOUR WEIGHT BACK IT WORKS FOR EVERY MAJOR LEAGUER
Come on coach. You are as old as I am...or older, but you've lost the knowledge of teaching timing which has NOTHING to do with mechanics. At least you got that correct. Hitting and catching is a lost art. I can teach timing in 3 seconds, and it would take me 20 minutes to teach reading any pitch from any pitcher...you have to go back to a pitch is a pitch. We should talk face to face.
If you watch any MLB hitter you will see that the stride to front toe will set the hands back. Once the front heal hits then they swing. It is not one motion.
Unless you sink into your legs when a little fooled by an off speed pitch. Look up Corey Seager and watch his HR on an off speed pitch. He sinks into his legs to continue his motion and then pushes into his front foot as he begins his swing. I believe Jake Epstein did a great video analysis that shows this. Check it out.
The batter is closing his swing off too quick. If you watch the angle inside the elbows it is very obtuse. I like to have the front elbow bent like a "7" and bring the back elbow in so the hands are well above each elbow. If you swing this way your hands willl reach out well over the plate and will create more hands to the ball action.
If the barrel followed the motion of how you describe the hands, the ball will be hit with the handle. I agree with Eric, the 'throw your hands at the ball', 'hands to theball' myth is old and misunderstood. If your hands reach well out over the plate, you will get hit or you will have to pull your hands so far inside you pull everything to your pull side, or hit everything on the handle. By reaching your hands well over the plate you are saying your arms extend out from your body, across the plate to hit the ball. That is not how to hit the ball. Hit the ball in front of your front foot, as Pay shows here int his video, not with your hands out over the plate. Maybe it is just a bad description of what you really mean, but semantics become very important is these situations.
If abduct means moving the back leg away form the center of the body, why in the world would you want to do that? I agree that you do not want to spin, pivot, squish anything, but move the back leg away from center? Doesn't make sense to me. If the back knee moves forward during the swing, is that moving the back leg towards center? I would describe it as 'the back knee pinching down and in with the result being the back heel moving in and up'. The result of this movement is the back leg, in general, moving towards center. Did I just misunderstand what you wrote, did you mean adduct?
It took 4:28 to reinforce the concept of timing. "2002 Spring Training...Tony Gwynn...even in pro ball...Dixie started me.." Brevity is key. Thanks for posting anyway.
As a 4 hole independent baseball hitter I "prematurely" put my foot down and throw my weight into the ball: I do this because it allows me to adjust to pitchers throwing offspeed junk which is the whole idea behind putting your front foot down early. I don't necessarily agree with this video because I don't ever stop and restart. I do get my foot down very early and slam force forward like a whip which has helped me SO MUCH! I mean look at Bautista he is a prime example of this.
Always beware the old timer who knows more than all the new theories being talked about. This can be a clear indication that the learning process of the "timer" ended long ago and they rely on old ideas, never evolving. Learning is an evolution or it dies. Anyone who says anything to the contrary is following the way of the dinosaur. There are basics but no recipes. Every pro hits as unique as they are themselves, but adhere to basics. When someone says they know what works for all people is missing the point of coaching. Coaching is the process of refinement of a player not the process of changing a person.
Agreed and I believe you are saying that there are as many different styles as their are baseballs. Agreed and if you mean by basics, certain positions every hitter gets into at the point of Launch, Approach, Contact and Power-V/Extension, then Iw ould definitely agree 100%. If not, then we disagree on some points, but all is good. I definitely agree it is the refinement of a player, but can also be a refinement of a players process as well. If his process is not good, but his swing is fairly good minus a few points, then the refinement of the process may help the players swing. It's all about finding what works for the player, meaning a style that fits him if he hasn't found it yet, the refining the positions every great MLB hitter gets into when their swing begins, proceeds and ends just past contact. Best to you snd nice comment
Respectively, don't compare to pros. Pros are pros because they can do things "normal" humans can't. Their fast twitch muscles and hand-eye coordination are off the charts (proprioception). If you are coaching Major Leaguers - good on you... But most of us are coaching younger players where this holds true...
This man is one of the best hitting coaches there is. He has been a national champion at OU and has been a head coach at Pepperdine and Ole Miss. His resume speaks for itself. Enough said.
This is not to start an argument, but to get a better understanding; I am always curious when people say 'enough said' because of someone's resume of winning. No question he is a great coach/manager and he makes some great points here. Obviously, when talking about a specific aspect of the swing, everything will not be mentioned, or touched upon, but there are certain things that should be pointed out when talking about the Launch and Approach of the swing-front heel plant, back knee/heel0which he mentions heel, back elbow/front shoulder, position/direction of the knob of the bat at heel plant. Yes, I understand this video is mainly about timing, but he does go into the back heel. At least mention the areas of the hitters position at 'Launch; front heel plant, back knee, heel in and up, front shoulder tilted down, knob pointed in direction of catcher, etc. Just because someone is, or was, a great hitter, or is/was a great coach, does not mean they automatically are a great hitting coach. There are too many examples of that in the game; Albert Pujols-great hitter, but no real idea how to explain and teach what he does. Mark McGuire-relatively good hitter that doesn't fully understand, or at least does not teach what really happens in the swing. Maybe he is just going along with what everyone else says to get back into the game/hall. If that is possible. And there are many more examples. A great coach from USC once said "it's about knowing what you are good at doing and do it. I wasn't a great hitting coach, etc, but I was a great recruiter and I could pick guys that could hit." Again, Pat brings up some good points and maybe he didn't touch on the front shoulder being down because that isn't what this video was about, but he does mention other aspects of the swing related to this portion of the swing, which I refer to as Launch...once the front heel plants on the ground.
No argument needed. The response was posted on this video to the few that took the time to try to discredit one of the better hitting instructors and coaches in the business. You don't have to agree with anything or everything he says about hitting, but his reputation and resume speaks for itself.
THE GAMEDAY BROADCAST NETWORK Well said. Cheers.
I would say he is a lot closer to what happens then most of these idiots on TH-cam....he is real close on the timing aspect...From what I understand he has the stride start when arm is moving forward before release which is early but this is the closest explanation of timing that I have heard on TH-cam
This gentleman makes many great points, such as when he is talking about the hitter that is coming toward the pitcher. This is correct. What he doesn't tell you is HOW to do this. This is accomplished by a good hip coil, good separation and riding out the back hip to swing initiation, which is when the front foot gets down. This will keep your lower half alive. . .as he talks about.
Coach Harrison,
What you said is very true - it is not two distinct movements - the stride and foot plant - but it is continuous.
And, yes, a hitter wuth a conventional stride woukd begin striding when the pitcher's arm begins to come forward. However, the leg lift hitters like Josh Donaldson start their leg lift much earlier, shortly after the pitcher breaks his hands.
yes, this complicates things but it is now becoming more widespread.
Not sure I understand this... if the swing is to be "one continuous motion" AND the hitter is supposed to have his foot down by the time the pitcher releases the ball (as suggested by Coach Harrison), then the hitter WILL be waiting since the avg pitch takes around .4 seconds to reach the plate and a good swing will take .14 to .16 to complete. While I agree that the motion has to be fairly continuous, I believe that it is still 2-steps - step, then swing (hip turn and forward hand movement starts at foot plant) A great swing can't possibly be step-swing, simultaneously.
Jeffery Lamont,
You have to distinguish between foot strike (touch down) and heel plant/drop. There is a slight interval in between. A hitter's heel plant/drop does not occur before a pitcher releases the ball with a more traditional stride (not one with a substantial leg lift). However, with a leg lift a la Josh Donaldson, foot strike occurs as the ball is well on its way to the plate.
Joseph Yurko I agree that there is that slight break between, and that is part of what I was saying; the hitting coaches (MLB and college) that I have spoken with all teach the stride/load and swing as two separate, but connected parts of the swing. My comment was more that it can't be one continuous movement
Jeffery Lamont,
No, but close. There is no breaking it down into parts in a game. The term is sequential summation of movement.
Joseph Yurko agreed, but as part of a sequence that has to be able to be stopped or interrupted, otherwise, if you listen to Coach Harrison, you would almost believe that every time a hitter strides, he has to swing. Even as part of a sequence, they are still two distinct parts of it.
Maybe you haters should watch this...seems to me this old fella aint so wrong after all. But hey.. I assume you all are major league players hating on this guy and not fat beer swilling amateurs. So I could be wrong.
You are a pime example of what I tell coaches and kids all the time , no one way works for everybody.
It's like you're racing your BMWs against modified Ford tauruses for pink slips and losing. To give dudes a fair shot at your BMW pink slip. I don't get it.
I just got worse watching this.
It will all come together with much practice.
Don’t worry you were pretty bad to begin with
Hitter seems to be planting early, despite the input that he should time the arm to stride and land front foot as ball is being released.
You talk too much...
Very good information on the timing of things and not being dead stop..However forcing the rotation of back leg is bad information..
He didn't say to force the rotation. He said to TIME everything off of the of the back hip and torso. The swing begins on the back leg, not the front leg. This is his entire point, and he presented it well.
Abduct the back leg, Please. No pivoting on the back leg. No spinning of the back leg at high level. Back leg naturally turns after drive/abduction. Please.
+isobaseball i think u mean adduction not abduction?
abduction: move back leg away from the center of body
Well...I can tell you.he is wrong because I played in the Padres organization when Tony made the tape.I went from 6 homeruns to 24 homeruns in one year because I wasnt rushing the ball.You dont stand still.I hit in the cage with Tony.You get the foot down with a hitting rhythm so its not mechanical.If you do it correctly with a rhythm,you will not get fooled on breaking balls and you see the location and pitch more clearly.He can talk all he wants but I know it works.Any hitter that goes into slumps rush the ball and stride causing head movement.Slow feet..quick upper body rotation and hands.Period!
The tape was actually done in 1998 spring training not 2002.
I don't see where he in any way discounted the role of upper body rotation and quick hands. He's making the case that the legs play a crucial role in being able to drive the ball, and he's absolutely right. Starting with the front foot step just doesn't make sense from a physics perspective. It might have helped you overcome some deficiency in your timing, but it still doesn't mean that it's correct. Placebo pills also make people feel better. Doesn't make them medicine. In other words, it was all in your head. Thinking about stepping fixed your timing. But imagine how much better a hitter you could have been if your legs were more involved, giving you more power.
I've seen the Tony Gwynn video he was talking about and it proves that just because you are a HOF player doesn't mean you are a good teacher.
It is VERY important to WATCH what elite hitters do and DON'T listen to what they say they do. Many times they have no idea what it is they do but they sure can do it.
True
I think that this is one of many ways to hit. When you step and stop to analyze the pitch, you need to keep your weight back so you have saved power loaded in your back leg. This guy suggests that hitting from stand still is bad because the only power you have saved up is in your hands. Watch how his batter demonstrates a "bad" load and swing. His weight goes from 80(back side)/20(front side) to 50/50 which if you step and stop you are SUPPOSED stay 80/20. There are MLB hitters that do this step and stop method because they are strong enough to do so. I don't agree with this guy at all.
my coach taught me to have 60 power in the back leg and 40 in the right, but in no way how you were taught was wrong
Think of physics; if you step and stop, then there is going to be an equal and opposite reaction to that step and stop motion. Keeping the head centered and back will be near impossible. It is more inclined to continue to move after the the swing begins/front heel plants. The weight shift should be a fluid motion, not a start, stop, start motion. Gather your weight over your back foot and continue forward in a single motion as you land into your front foot-this is where your head stops as you begin your swing. Obviously, this is a basic description without going into every detail, but if you start, stop, the start again, you are losing momentum and weight shift into your front foot and ultimately, lose any ground force you create through your weight shift. Yes, you can get weight shift without a stride, it's just rocking motion like Albert Pujols earlier in his career.
He's only one of the top batting coaches in the game. What does he know? Right?
DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THIS EVEN WHEN HE MAKES HIS ASSISTANT DO A "DRY SWING" HE IS OUT INFRONT STEP EARLY AND KEEP YOUR WEIGHT BACK IT WORKS FOR EVERY MAJOR LEAGUER
Come on coach. You are as old as I am...or older, but you've lost the knowledge of teaching timing which has NOTHING to do with mechanics. At least you got that correct. Hitting and catching is a lost art. I can teach timing in 3 seconds, and it would take me 20 minutes to teach reading any pitch from any pitcher...you have to go back to a pitch is a pitch. We should talk face to face.
✅👍
If you watch any MLB hitter you will see that the stride to front toe will set the hands back. Once the front heal hits then they swing. It is not one motion.
this training session is GOLD. thank you a million for this generous sharing.
you should really clarify that getting the front foot down too early is not a good thing. i messes up your timing dramatically.
Unless you sink into your legs when a little fooled by an off speed pitch. Look up Corey Seager and watch his HR on an off speed pitch. He sinks into his legs to continue his motion and then pushes into his front foot as he begins his swing. I believe Jake Epstein did a great video analysis that shows this. Check it out.
great video !
The batter is closing his swing off too quick. If you watch the angle inside the elbows it is very obtuse. I like to have the front elbow bent like a "7" and bring the back elbow in so the hands are well above each elbow. If you swing this way your hands willl reach out well over the plate and will create more hands to the ball action.
Eric Pizano The hands do not hit the ball,the barrel does,this hands to the ball myth dies hard.
I never said the hands make contact with the ball obviously. I am simply saying the barrel will follow the motion of which your hands are going.
If the barrel followed the motion of how you describe the hands, the ball will be hit with the handle. I agree with Eric, the 'throw your hands at the ball', 'hands to theball' myth is old and misunderstood. If your hands reach well out over the plate, you will get hit or you will have to pull your hands so far inside you pull everything to your pull side, or hit everything on the handle. By reaching your hands well over the plate you are saying your arms extend out from your body, across the plate to hit the ball. That is not how to hit the ball. Hit the ball in front of your front foot, as Pay shows here int his video, not with your hands out over the plate. Maybe it is just a bad description of what you really mean, but semantics become very important is these situations.
good stuff here..
Absolutely!
👍
Abduct - moving the back leg away from the center of the body.
If abduct means moving the back leg away form the center of the body, why in the world would you want to do that? I agree that you do not want to spin, pivot, squish anything, but move the back leg away from center? Doesn't make sense to me. If the back knee moves forward during the swing, is that moving the back leg towards center? I would describe it as 'the back knee pinching down and in with the result being the back heel moving in and up'. The result of this movement is the back leg, in general, moving towards center. Did I just misunderstand what you wrote, did you mean adduct?
It took 4:28 to reinforce the concept of timing. "2002 Spring Training...Tony Gwynn...even in pro ball...Dixie started me.." Brevity is key. Thanks for posting anyway.
As a 4 hole independent baseball hitter I "prematurely" put my foot down and throw my weight into the ball: I do this because it allows me to adjust to pitchers throwing offspeed junk which is the whole idea behind putting your front foot down early. I don't necessarily agree with this video because I don't ever stop and restart. I do get my foot down very early and slam force forward like a whip which has helped me SO MUCH! I mean look at Bautista he is a prime example of this.
JorJor812 maybe that’s why you are playing independent ball🤫
Always beware the old timer who knows more than all the new theories being talked about. This can be a clear indication that the learning process of the "timer" ended long ago and they rely on old ideas, never evolving. Learning is an evolution or it dies. Anyone who says anything to the contrary is following the way of the dinosaur.
There are basics but no recipes. Every pro hits as unique as they are themselves, but adhere to basics. When someone says they know what works for all people is missing the point of coaching. Coaching is the process of refinement of a player not the process of changing a person.
Agreed and I believe you are saying that there are as many different styles as their are baseballs. Agreed and if you mean by basics, certain positions every hitter gets into at the point of Launch, Approach, Contact and Power-V/Extension, then Iw ould definitely agree 100%. If not, then we disagree on some points, but all is good. I definitely agree it is the refinement of a player, but can also be a refinement of a players process as well. If his process is not good, but his swing is fairly good minus a few points, then the refinement of the process may help the players swing. It's all about finding what works for the player, meaning a style that fits him if he hasn't found it yet, the refining the positions every great MLB hitter gets into when their swing begins, proceeds and ends just past contact. Best to you snd nice comment
Well said Richard! I like the flexibility to accommodate various views and approaches. Excellent insight
Titaniumaz Thank you, sir. Still learning and enjoying teaching the elite swing to all ages.
you kidding me kid? lol this guy is a legend who are you?
Respectively, don't compare to pros. Pros are pros because they can do things "normal" humans can't. Their fast twitch muscles and hand-eye coordination are off the charts (proprioception). If you are coaching Major Leaguers - good on you... But most of us are coaching younger players where this holds true...