This was fantastic. For sometime I wondered how driver's respond to a yellow signal at a diverging junction and this has now told me. The second from last told me what I wanted to know. Thanks for this.
Superb video! The best I've seen on the subject of modern British signalling practice as it relates to turnouts from the main line. Not only clear explanations but also high-quality photography throughout -- and a merciful absence of accompanying "music". Thank you!
I find that I have to watch your videos twice once to read the banner and then to sit back and enjoy the ride Thanks for taking the time to film, produce and post I for one really enjoy your work 👍
Excellent video, Don, I've only just stumbled upon it...! Free greens: At some junctions without approach release, one or two preliminary route indicators (PRI) provide drivers more advance information. PRIs are normally blank, and when the junction signal clears they show simply a white arrow on a black background, pointing upwards for the straight or angled at position 1 or 4 for the divergence. These junctions usually have some higher risk if trains are wrongly routed, so PRIs give drivers the opportunity to stop and contact signallers. (Heathrow) Airport Jn was (IIRC) the first to be PRI-fitted; needed to avoid diesels entering the airport branch tunnel or HEX trains running off the wire! Flashing yellows: it took a while to fine-tune the concept since it was first added in the mid-1970s (Didcot East Jn if anyone's asking). Engineers soon found that bulbs set to flash popped their filaments at an alarming rate! Without other approved light sources at the time, bulb life was prolonged by dimming rather switching off between flashes. Nowadays with LEDs everywhere, the flashes are once again very clear to drivers. Your Heaton Lodge example reminds me of another change. After some incidents, notably the Colwich collision in 1986, signals in a sequence are allowed to flash for only one junction, ie where junctions are close together you can't overlap any sequences and risk confusing drivers as to which junction ahead is clear. Your Dewsbury example reminds me of another rule also, in that where a red beyond the 'flashed' junction protects a head-on conflict (and not just the trailing points) the flashing sequence to it cannot show and it must instead be standard approach release from red. Splitting distants: These aren't mentioned but they have come back into fashion as a method since the end of the steam age. In some schemes they are preferred to flashers because they give drivers better information about the state of the line ahead of the junction. One or more signals on approach have a second head offset either to left or right of the main head. Drivers can get, say, two (fixed) yellows in the offset head followed by one yellow plus feather at the junction. Or green in offset head followed by two yellows plus feather at the junction. Or green, then green plus feather.... Bit long-winded I know (perhaps I need to get out more) but hope this helps!😃
All good stuff Tim. The “free greens” still have to conform to the speed difference of 10mph despite having PRIs. I’ve noticed that some flashing yellows don’t actually go out but just dim down which could be linked to the bulb problem. Thanks for the feedback 👍
Thanks for the signal 7 junction info, it will make watching your & other cab view video's more enjoyable & give all a better sense of 'being in the cab'
Loved the video, very informative, easy being a passenger but would love your job! Travel alot from Scarborough to Manc so know some of the routes on this video very well!
Nice video. Note about TPWS for anyone interested, freight locos have a trigger delay timer of 1218ms so they need to approach restrictions slightly slower than passenger stock.
Outstanding video. Thanks very much for posting, especially helpful for those of us used to North American train control. Really not so different except for the minor details. Cheers!
Don, Just caught this one and again your knowledge only adds to the full enjoyment of your route videos, GREAT explanation here and wonderful scenery again. Can not compliment you enough on all you do, work and here on YT Many thanks from a very grateful American.
I occasionally get watchers having a go about the odd spelling mistake which I don’t mind but it takes a day to get the footage and many hours to put it together. I don’t sell these videos, they are free and all the proceeds go to charity. However, you always appreciate the efforts and it is this kind of feedback that keeps me going. I’m equally grateful to you my friend.
I wouldn't mind more of these informative movies! It's interesting for us living in other country's. (On the continent, as I heard the British says) :-)
An interesting insight into signalling. Anyone thinking a train driver just starts and stops the train couldn’t be more wrong. So much involved in a safe journey. Car drivers ought to be as well trained and refreshed!
In the passing loop case - 6:51 - it seems odd to me that the slow train is left on the main line, and the fast train is directed into the passing loop, requiring it to slow down.
Well spotted but there is usually a reason for these things. Marsden station is accessed via long flights of steps - have another little look at the video. The stopping train is booked to call there on the right so it is normal protocol where possible, not to inconvenience the passengers by changing from the booked platform. It could actually cause a bigger delay while they walk back around. The platform I passed through has actually been extended and raised but at the moment, it would cause too much delay for trains to pass through via an “approach controlled” signal. I believe they will add a flashing yellow signal at the next redesign.
@@richjhart In fairness, I don't think the railway operations at the two disparate and vastly different locations of Marsden and Vauxhall are in any way comparable (Other than they're both locations on the railway)
also,would it depend on stops too,further along the line...maybe "our"train had less stops and hence needs the diverted loop to gain the initiative ahead...
Excellent film, better than any training films I have seen. A Distant or Repeater signal is also a signal not capable of showing a red aspect. I think most Drivers go by the fact that nothing is approach controlled too.....well I do! LOL
Yes, I did a spell as a DTM at Northern and we used to discourage the notion of approach controlled (although it is perfectly safe as long as the implications are understood!!!). I hope you are well GM.
Happy hew year to you, Mr Moyle, your explanation of the line speed, over points. Interesting and easily understood. Do keep going on more technical aspects, of Running a safe rail system. Where is going in the future? Thank you. Patrick
That's interesting. I work in a large signalling cntre in the south and none of the signallers I work with have heard of a relating signal. Maybe it's a north/south thing.
@@Sorarse Yeah, it looked very much like a 2 aspect colour light repeater to me with yellow for following red or caution aspect and green for a following green aspect
Another interesting and instructional video. Leaving aside the signalling issue, would the "looping" manoeuvre needed at Marsden to get in front of the other train be part of regular service operation, given that this involved your train having to slow to 15 mph in order to leave the main line? If the other train was scheduled to stop at Marsden, one wonders why that wasn't looped instead?
Very valid point but that was unusual. Due to earlier disruption, the crew for that other train’s next journey were actually on mine so Control had us routed round them. We could have just followed behind and run alongside at Stalybridge but they had other stops to make and that would have put our “fast Liverpool” very late.
That definitely won’t happen. One of the conditions of me being able to share the videos is that showing how the train is driven is not allowed. It’s for security reasons.
Love these vids, can I ask a question do you rely on local knowledge to allow for speed changes? is it pure local knowledge or is there an 'Indicator' that a speed limit is coming up? Got a train sim in my old age and first I know of the speed limit is when I pass '95' at 125 mph in a pretend class 390.. oops.
We are expected to know every line speed Phil and on a long run like Hull to Manchester or Scarborough to Liverpool, there are a lot. There are signs but we tend to do it instinctively.
I am sure your viewers will appreciate this info, turning out at set of points is like travelling on a railway curve, but not as acute. The Croydon tram accident happened because the tram travelled faster than line speed restriction for the curve.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment. Thanks again for showing my favourite piece of track on the T.P. route. You may want to do a brief piece on what 2, 3,4 aspect signalling is.
It could be catastrophic as some junctions leave high speed lines on a really tight curve. That aside, when a train hits a curve or curved set of points at speed, the impact causes track wear and displacement so it has to be controlled. Regarding more information on signalling and signage, I’m part way through another “101” on the subject but it keeps getting put back far various reasons. I’ll finish it soon so if you subscribe you should see it pop up.
Really interesting, that! As a passenger I have noticed that there are new and much simplified signal boxes, which are supposedly to make driver less stressed/confused with unfamiliar stretches and junctions. I know now the meaning of white dotted lights going left/right which are related to entering/leaving junction, but I can't help wondering what the letters above signal boxes mean (the letter F and the letter S - do they mean fast and slow or first and second)? Thank you for your uploads and I hope that you carry on doing this regularly!
Yes, Fast and Slow - see the response to your previous question. There will be more in the new year and I’m part way through doing a video on signals and indicators which I’ll finish when I get chance.
Interestingly, that is the second (pardon the pun) time I've seen 974 milliseconds used in your videos. Why not 1 second instead of the 974mS. Is that determined by the distance between the 2 sensors? It would appear, driving trains is more complicated than people think. Thanks for an informative video.
It is the actual speed of the timer and freight trains have to be doing 1300m/s which means they have to be travelling slower. Yes, they can vary the approach speed by moving the distance between the track loops. If you look at one where we run into a dead end station platform you will see they are very close together and all trains approach at less the 10mph.
Thanks for this Don! I notice the points 2:34 are normal and the crossovers are also points (Switched Diamond?) - great design. Sydney AUS has a lot of double track shifting so theres a lot of crossovers. We have several routes or a Local and fast pair. Maybe at every major station to allow for moving around issues, there is the double crossover of the UP and DOWN track. Are there any swing nose points on your route? In that design, the frog also swings so instead of the angled gap, theres effectively continuous rail. They trialled some at Chatswood and I wonder how other train networks see them?
I can’t say that I’ve noticed but as they appear in the Rule Book, I assume they do. If not really paid attention to slip points of which we have quite a few. If I can find out I’ll add another comment.
@@doncoffey5820 Thanks again. Still cannot find anything on the Swing.nose form here. For info, this is an old link to mention of the points at Chatswood.. angad.railpage.com.au/f-t11307018-0-asc-s125.htm Don't know if you have a U.K. version of this forum, but its is very informative. groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/aus.rail/0qCjSFIkdRU this is also an interesting reason the the swing-nose points. Unfortunatly, the 'attempt' at noise reduction at the station which is raised to maybe 3 or 4 stories higher than the ground, was not good.. the harmonics result in a very loud vacuum cleaner type of howling when the train arrives. Can imagine it would be like this in a tornado.
Hello Don, excellent video like all the others. Just one slightly tangential question, if I may. Why are there so many stations with staggered platform arrangements?
@@doncoffey5820 Your caption just before that said route knowledge was needed for the driver to know the correct diverging speed. Does this mean it's not usual to have speedboards for the turnouts? Where I am (in Queensland), there's a speedboard for every turnout.
I'd venture to say that in this case route knowledge is indeed needed because the speed-limit sign is positioned far too close to the turnout to be of much use to any driver who didn't already know the limit here -- and these old "cutout" signs are not always all that visible either (especially when, as here, no-one seems to have painted them for years!).
Thank you, Don. As usual, this is packed with helpful information, especially for someone like me, familiar in principal with the old manual-and-telegraph systems of signalling, but who has no experience of modern systems such as TWPS, apart from what I read in the pages of “The Railway Magazine” or “Modern Railways”. (As a youngster in the early-to mid 1960s I spent time in several signal boxes in west Wales.) Can you explain something that raises my curiosity? From around 5.10 you explain how route knowledge enables the driver to make the right decisions about speed and so forth through an approaching junction. As the train reaches the junction there is a sign indicating left at 15mph. So the question: why is there no sign indicating 15mph at the signal with the left-turn indicator, telling the driver of the speed limit for the left switch? If there was a sign, either at the signal or where the main-line indicator says “60”, there might be a chance of slowing from the line-speed of 60 mph to 15 mph; but if an error is made there’s no time to slow by the time one is at the junction. So it seems that everything depends on route knowledge. Or is it the case that the TPWS, knowing that the route is set for the left-turning junction, will apply the brakes if the train passes the signal too quickly? Am I misunderstanding something? Thanks for such informative and interesting videos and texts.
Good question Martin. Signalling and signage regulations are extremely complex and an entirely stand alone subject. Its a good idea in principle but putting the speed in advance of the restriction gives scope for forgetting as distraction can come into play. Drivers have to consider all sorts of things and leaving a gap could result in him or her hitting the points too fast. You’ll see in some videos there are locations where the route is indicated by an arrow well in advance. Speed never is though - its always from the exact point.
@@doncoffey5820 Thank you Don. An interesting reply. I daresay that there is nearly 200 years of experience, some of it hard, that has led to speed never being indicated in advance.
We can have some fun stopping in leaf fall. They’ll slide for miles in the right conditions but thankfully that’s few and far between. Reading the rails is a good starting point so we can predict poor conditions and drive accordingly so braking earlier and lighter. There are countermeasures like dropping sand or selecting “emergency” if the train is smart enough to handle the situation (computer controlled).
In Method 2 it did not seem to be a particularly wise move to send the overtaking train on the slower line. The other train should have been routed over the 15 mph section and your train should have been allowed to pass it like a bullet on the main line.
You need to know the reasons to understand. That train was booked to call at the platform it was stood at. We were not booked to call but we had a member of staff on to work the stopping train. We had to get past in order to get that person in front.
Great video. Only change I would make would be to have the text as a voice over. I found it quite distracting to have to read and watch. Also, how did you get to be a train driver? i.e. what steps did you take
We don’t get them around here and the video was really for the benefit of people watching my videos. I’ve seen pictures of them, maybe we will get them one day.
I’m not sure. That junction is designed for 100 mph but it is held back by a signalling design and line speed enhancements. You can tell by the size of the facing locks. As for the mechanical detail, I pass over it far too quick to tell. Maybe an S&T engineer will comment.
Hi Don, Great Video, thanks for explaining the signal system.. How many coaches are you pulling.??. Approx. how many Passengers are one the train? What Class Engine are your operating (How many Power Units)?? More I think about it is this Video done with several different runs?? Again Thanks for the Video.. Ed
Probably not the kind of unit you are used to on Amtrak Ed. Might be better to have a read of this link and then if anything isn’t clear just leave me another comment. Regards the video, yes, these are different runs on different days. Regards. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_185
Yes, over here there are different levels of track work. For quick and less invasive work, they will work between the passage of trains but if the work requires them to interfere with the track in some way then they usually do the work overnight or at weekends. If the project is bigger, they will try and do it during long weekends where it has less impact. There are occasions where work can be done on adjacent lines or structures where they do reduce the speed of trains and a speed restriction “to protect the workforce” is imposed.
Technically you don’t need any Jack but you will need to be able to get through a pretty tough selection process. Having a reasonably good education would help a lot. There are a lot of tests to do. Don’t let that put you off because I can guarantee that if you don’t apply you won’t get in but if you do, you might.
Cos am a year a 11 at high school doing my exams and of course am doing maths and English to Become a train driver and good education as well but am hoping so al be one one day
Good luck....im 57 and thinking of applying....NOT lol..wish I had thought of doing the job though...its a great job...several members of my family have been onthe railways,my grandad did for 50 yrs
Yeah yeah yeah, keeping trucks off our congested roads. Why are they congested? And the trucks are a vital lifeline. Just beat us up everytime, don't worry yourselves we are used to being treat like pariah.
I was referring to the size as in #20 for most higher speed t/o in U S. The # designation refers to size of frog angle hence the #20 frog would be for a t/o speed of around 60 MPH. In US most common t/o are #10 or #8 for M/L Tracks. M A C
OK, I appreciate your comments but its not terminology we use in the UK. The infrastructure is owned by Network Rail and they can create turnouts of all speeds where appropriate. The standard unmarked turnout speed is 15 mph but if you look at the York to Leeds video, you’ll see a 125 mph junction.
Really interesting video. I must admit if i was a driver I would be so tempted to just floor the train with all those lovely straight stretches of track.
We Brits find this system less cumbersome. It has been elaborated in recent years in many places by the flashing double yellow aspect and flashing yellow aspects as indications to reduce speed before a junction
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Most interesting and informative! As a passenger, you rarely get to see these combinations!
This was fantastic. For sometime I wondered how driver's respond to a yellow signal at a diverging junction and this has now told me. The second from last told me what I wanted to know. Thanks for this.
Superb video! The best I've seen on the subject of modern British signalling practice as it relates to turnouts from the main line. Not only clear explanations but also high-quality photography throughout -- and a merciful absence of accompanying "music". Thank you!
I find that I have to watch your videos twice once to read the banner and then to sit back and enjoy the ride Thanks for taking the time to film, produce and post I for one really enjoy your work 👍
Maybe I’ll try a voiceover one day and see how it is received.
Excellent video, Don, I've only just stumbled upon it...!
Free greens: At some junctions without approach release, one or two preliminary route indicators (PRI) provide drivers more advance information. PRIs are normally blank, and when the junction signal clears they show simply a white arrow on a black background, pointing upwards for the straight or angled at position 1 or 4 for the divergence. These junctions usually have some higher risk if trains are wrongly routed, so PRIs give drivers the opportunity to stop and contact signallers. (Heathrow) Airport Jn was (IIRC) the first to be PRI-fitted; needed to avoid diesels entering the airport branch tunnel or HEX trains running off the wire!
Flashing yellows: it took a while to fine-tune the concept since it was first added in the mid-1970s (Didcot East Jn if anyone's asking). Engineers soon found that bulbs set to flash popped their filaments at an alarming rate! Without other approved light sources at the time, bulb life was prolonged by dimming rather switching off between flashes. Nowadays with LEDs everywhere, the flashes are once again very clear to drivers.
Your Heaton Lodge example reminds me of another change. After some incidents, notably the Colwich collision in 1986, signals in a sequence are allowed to flash for only one junction, ie where junctions are close together you can't overlap any sequences and risk confusing drivers as to which junction ahead is clear. Your Dewsbury example reminds me of another rule also, in that where a red beyond the 'flashed' junction protects a head-on conflict (and not just the trailing points) the flashing sequence to it cannot show and it must instead be standard approach release from red.
Splitting distants: These aren't mentioned but they have come back into fashion as a method since the end of the steam age. In some schemes they are preferred to flashers because they give drivers better information about the state of the line ahead of the junction. One or more signals on approach have a second head offset either to left or right of the main head. Drivers can get, say, two (fixed) yellows in the offset head followed by one yellow plus feather at the junction. Or green in offset head followed by two yellows plus feather at the junction. Or green, then green plus feather....
Bit long-winded I know (perhaps I need to get out more) but hope this helps!😃
All good stuff Tim. The “free greens” still have to conform to the speed difference of 10mph despite having PRIs. I’ve noticed that some flashing yellows don’t actually go out but just dim down which could be linked to the bulb problem. Thanks for the feedback 👍
really good explanation of how that all works. Thank-you Don
Thanks for the signal 7 junction info, it will make watching your & other cab view video's more enjoyable & give all a better sense of 'being in the cab'
I wish great videos like this were available when I went through train driver training! Very informative!
Great signaleducation. I am retired at pension as signalworker from Banedanmark.
Nice one Don. Very informative and now I begin to understand what all those sensors are for laid between the rails.
Thanks for operating lesson Don. A little different here in Canada.
Yes, I imagine. I’m hoping to travel on Canadian railways soon so I can compare notes. Thanks for watching George.
Good , clear information, many things have changed in the 24 years since I left BR .👍🇬🇧
Thanks Stephen.
A great tutorial, Don. Much appreciated 👍🏼
This is excellent: the best tutorial on the subject I have seen! Thanks Don.
My pleasure Neil.
Loved the video, very informative, easy being a passenger but would love your job! Travel alot from Scarborough to Manc so know some of the routes on this video very well!
Nice video. Note about TPWS for anyone interested, freight locos have a trigger delay timer of 1218ms so they need to approach restrictions slightly slower than passenger stock.
Yes correct.
Outstanding video. Thanks very much for posting, especially helpful for those of us used to North American train control. Really not so different except for the minor details. Cheers!
Thanks Mark. I thought it would help understand some of what is seen in the videos.
really good video Don im a train enthusiast i like watching videos of cab rides it amazes me
Thanks Don for the explanations. Very interesting.
Don, Just caught this one and again your knowledge only adds to the full enjoyment of your route videos, GREAT explanation here and wonderful scenery again. Can not compliment you enough on all you do, work and here on YT Many thanks from a very grateful American.
I occasionally get watchers having a go about the odd spelling mistake which I don’t mind but it takes a day to get the footage and many hours to put it together. I don’t sell these videos, they are free and all the proceeds go to charity. However, you always appreciate the efforts and it is this kind of feedback that keeps me going. I’m equally grateful to you my friend.
An interesting journey. Always something to learn. Cheers Don!
That probably wants redoing now Martin but time is the big worry.
Thank you, great video, explains to me what I see sometimes in Train Sim :)
Thanks Kaitlynn, I tried to anticipate some of the questions asked.
Superb video Don, I have learned a lot, thanks.
I wouldn't mind more of these informative movies! It's interesting for us living in other country's. (On the continent, as I heard the British says) :-)
Glad you like it Kristian. More videos coming soon.
Fantastic and very informative. Thank you.
Fascinating to watch. Thank you for sharing?
Just brilliant Don very helpful and informative
Fascinating, and informative. Thanks.
Fascinating and thanks for the explanation. As a passenger..who knew? Cheers, Bob
Yes, there’s a lot going on Bob. It takes a good year in training before a driver passes out and even then he (or she) continues to learn.
Thanks for that, great explanations.
Fascinating, thank you.
More please... Invaluable.
Thank you most helpful & informative!
Another great video
Another very interesting video!
Thanks Henry.
Great explanation!!! Thans for the vid Don!! Cheers Onno.
Cheers Onno. Hope all is good with you.
An interesting insight into signalling. Anyone thinking a train driver just starts and stops the train couldn’t be more wrong. So much involved in a safe journey. Car drivers ought to be as well trained and refreshed!
We have to undertake quite a stringent reaction test that I’m sure would save many lives of car drivers had to do it.
In the passing loop case - 6:51 - it seems odd to me that the slow train is left on the main line, and the fast train is directed into the passing loop, requiring it to slow down.
Well spotted but there is usually a reason for these things. Marsden station is accessed via long flights of steps - have another little look at the video. The stopping train is booked to call there on the right so it is normal protocol where possible, not to inconvenience the passengers by changing from the booked platform. It could actually cause a bigger delay while they walk back around. The platform I passed through has actually been extended and raised but at the moment, it would cause too much delay for trains to pass through via an “approach controlled” signal. I believe they will add a flashing yellow signal at the next redesign.
@@richjhart In fairness, I don't think the railway operations at the two disparate and vastly different locations of Marsden and Vauxhall are in any way comparable (Other than they're both locations on the railway)
also,would it depend on stops too,further along the line...maybe "our"train had less stops and hence needs the diverted loop to gain the initiative ahead...
Excellent film, better than any training films I have seen. A Distant or Repeater signal is also a signal not capable of showing a red aspect. I think most Drivers go by the fact that nothing is approach controlled too.....well I do! LOL
Yes, I did a spell as a DTM at Northern and we used to discourage the notion of approach controlled (although it is perfectly safe as long as the implications are understood!!!). I hope you are well GM.
Don Coffey much better thank you Don😊
I’m reasonably well as far as I know ;-)
@@doncoffey5820 Sorry Don I meant to ask if you are well too. Please forgive my rudeness ;-))
Haha, no worries. I thought you knew my doctor or something!
Loving these videos, cheers :)
Great tutorial Don 👍🏻
Good information.
Very well done - thank you
Thanks Andy
Thanks for the info, very helpful indeed. I assume there are further similar vids on your channel? Best wishes.Ken
Happy hew year to you, Mr Moyle, your explanation of the line speed, over points. Interesting and easily understood. Do keep going on more technical aspects, of Running a safe rail system. Where is going in the future? Thank you. Patrick
Yes, more to come in 2023 Patrick (by the way, who is Mr Moyle 😉)
Fascinating.
I think the terminology usually used for a 'R' signal is repeater, as it is repeating what the signal ahead is showing.
No. A repeater repeats the same aspect. When a relating signal shows yellow, the signal it relates to shows red.
That's interesting. I work in a large signalling cntre in the south and none of the signallers I work with have heard of a relating signal. Maybe it's a north/south thing.
@@Sorarse Yeah, it looked very much like a 2 aspect colour light repeater to me with yellow for following red or caution aspect and green for a following green aspect
Great video :)
Another interesting and instructional video. Leaving aside the signalling issue, would the "looping" manoeuvre needed at Marsden to get in front of the other train be part of regular service operation, given that this involved your train having to slow to 15 mph in order to leave the main line? If the other train was scheduled to stop at Marsden, one wonders why that wasn't looped instead?
Very valid point but that was unusual. Due to earlier disruption, the crew for that other train’s next journey were actually on mine so Control had us routed round them. We could have just followed behind and run alongside at Stalybridge but they had other stops to make and that would have put our “fast Liverpool” very late.
I wondered about that too: great explanation, Don!
would be nice if you could insert the speed or the controls.
That definitely won’t happen. One of the conditions of me being able to share the videos is that showing how the train is driven is not allowed. It’s for security reasons.
Love these vids, can I ask a question do you rely on local knowledge to allow for speed changes? is it pure local knowledge or is there an 'Indicator' that a speed limit is coming up? Got a train sim in my old age and first I know of the speed limit is when I pass '95' at 125 mph in a pretend class 390.. oops.
We are expected to know every line speed Phil and on a long run like Hull to Manchester or Scarborough to Liverpool, there are a lot. There are signs but we tend to do it instinctively.
I am sure your viewers will appreciate this info, turning out at set of points is like travelling on a railway curve, but not as acute. The Croydon tram accident happened because the tram travelled faster than line speed restriction for the curve.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment. Thanks again for showing my favourite piece of track on the T.P. route. You may want to do a brief piece on what 2, 3,4 aspect signalling is.
It could be catastrophic as some junctions leave high speed lines on a really tight curve. That aside, when a train hits a curve or curved set of points at speed, the impact causes track wear and displacement so it has to be controlled. Regarding more information on signalling and signage, I’m part way through another “101” on the subject but it keeps getting put back far various reasons. I’ll finish it soon so if you subscribe you should see it pop up.
Bill M McKelvie Ned we eewdest
Really interesting, that! As a passenger I have noticed that there are new and much simplified signal boxes, which are supposedly to make driver less stressed/confused with unfamiliar stretches and junctions. I know now the meaning of white dotted lights going left/right which are related to entering/leaving junction, but I can't help wondering what the letters above signal boxes mean (the letter F and the letter S - do they mean fast and slow or first and second)? Thank you for your uploads and I hope that you carry on doing this regularly!
Yes, Fast and Slow - see the response to your previous question. There will be more in the new year and I’m part way through doing a video on signals and indicators which I’ll finish when I get chance.
you watch this for nigh on 15 minutes and you are left wondering, "sleeping pills or jumping off a high bridge. Jeezo.
Did somebody have you at gunpoint? 😉
Interesting, thanks. Would love to see a similar thing on the flashing greens that I think they use on some lines?
I think they’ve gone no David. They were up Newcastle way and used when the IC225s were on test at 140mph.
@@doncoffey5820 Ah, thanks Don.
Interestingly, that is the second (pardon the pun) time I've seen 974 milliseconds used in your videos. Why not 1 second instead of the 974mS. Is that determined by the distance between the 2 sensors? It would appear, driving trains is more complicated than people think. Thanks for an informative video.
It is the actual speed of the timer and freight trains have to be doing 1300m/s which means they have to be travelling slower. Yes, they can vary the approach speed by moving the distance between the track loops. If you look at one where we run into a dead end station platform you will see they are very close together and all trains approach at less the 10mph.
Thanks for this Don! I notice the points 2:34 are normal and the crossovers are also points (Switched Diamond?) - great design. Sydney AUS has a lot of double track shifting so theres a lot of crossovers. We have several routes or a Local and fast pair. Maybe at every major station to allow for moving around issues, there is the double crossover of the UP and DOWN track.
Are there any swing nose points on your route? In that design, the frog also swings so instead of the angled gap, theres effectively continuous rail. They trialled some at Chatswood and I wonder how other train networks see them?
I can’t say that I’ve noticed but as they appear in the Rule Book, I assume they do. If not really paid attention to slip points of which we have quite a few. If I can find out I’ll add another comment.
@@doncoffey5820 Thanks again. Still cannot find anything on the Swing.nose form here.
For info, this is an old link to mention of the points at Chatswood.. angad.railpage.com.au/f-t11307018-0-asc-s125.htm Don't know if you have a U.K. version of this forum, but its is very informative.
groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/aus.rail/0qCjSFIkdRU this is also an interesting reason the the swing-nose points. Unfortunatly, the 'attempt' at noise reduction at the station which is raised to maybe 3 or 4 stories higher than the ground, was not good.. the harmonics result in a very loud vacuum cleaner type of howling when the train arrives. Can imagine it would be like this in a tornado.
Hello Don, excellent video like all the others. Just one slightly tangential question, if I may. Why are there so many stations with staggered platform arrangements?
I don’t know for sure but maybe convenient for a platform barrow crossing. If anyone knows for sure please comment.
I've noticed this in a few videos recently, and it generally seems to happen a lot where the station is new or has been rebuilt.
Rather battered old 15 mph cutout sign still standing at Marsden then. The North Eastern region seems to be the only place you'll still see them.
There are still quite a few around even on the West side of the pennines Andrei.
@@doncoffey5820
Your caption just before that said route knowledge was needed for the driver to know the correct diverging speed. Does this mean it's not usual to have speedboards for the turnouts? Where I am (in Queensland), there's a speedboard for every turnout.
I'd venture to say that in this case route knowledge is indeed needed because the speed-limit sign is positioned far too close to the turnout to be of much use to any driver who didn't already know the limit here -- and these old "cutout" signs are not always all that visible either (especially when, as here, no-one seems to have painted them for years!).
Thank you, Don. As usual, this is packed with helpful information, especially for someone like me, familiar in principal with the old manual-and-telegraph systems of signalling, but who has no experience of modern systems such as TWPS, apart from what I read in the pages of “The Railway Magazine” or “Modern Railways”. (As a youngster in the early-to mid 1960s I spent time in several signal boxes in west Wales.)
Can you explain something that raises my curiosity? From around 5.10 you explain how route knowledge enables the driver to make the right decisions about speed and so forth through an approaching junction. As the train reaches the junction there is a sign indicating left at 15mph.
So the question: why is there no sign indicating 15mph at the signal with the left-turn indicator, telling the driver of the speed limit for the left switch? If there was a sign, either at the signal or where the main-line indicator says “60”, there might be a chance of slowing from the line-speed of 60 mph to 15 mph; but if an error is made there’s no time to slow by the time one is at the junction. So it seems that everything depends on route knowledge. Or is it the case that the TPWS, knowing that the route is set for the left-turning junction, will apply the brakes if the train passes the signal too quickly?
Am I misunderstanding something?
Thanks for such informative and interesting videos and texts.
Good question Martin. Signalling and signage regulations are extremely complex and an entirely stand alone subject. Its a good idea in principle but putting the speed in advance of the restriction gives scope for forgetting as distraction can come into play. Drivers have to consider all sorts of things and leaving a gap could result in him or her hitting the points too fast. You’ll see in some videos there are locations where the route is indicated by an arrow well in advance. Speed never is though - its always from the exact point.
@@doncoffey5820 Thank you Don. An interesting reply. I daresay that there is nearly 200 years of experience, some of it hard, that has led to speed never being indicated in advance.
What happens if you need to brake.. and there's wet leaves on the line ?
We can have some fun stopping in leaf fall. They’ll slide for miles in the right conditions but thankfully that’s few and far between. Reading the rails is a good starting point so we can predict poor conditions and drive accordingly so braking earlier and lighter. There are countermeasures like dropping sand or selecting “emergency” if the train is smart enough to handle the situation (computer controlled).
In Method 2 it did not seem to be a particularly wise move to send the overtaking train on the slower line. The other train should have been routed over the 15 mph section and your train should have been allowed to pass it like a bullet on the main line.
You need to know the reasons to understand. That train was booked to call at the platform it was stood at. We were not booked to call but we had a member of staff on to work the stopping train. We had to get past in order to get that person in front.
Great video. Only change I would make would be to have the text as a voice over. I found it quite distracting to have to read and watch. Also, how did you get to be a train driver? i.e. what steps did you take
The easiest way is to register for alerts with the local train operators. Its a laborious task but I think its worth the effort.
Method 4: the « splitting » signal. No example to be found on your route? I saw only that layout for banner repeaters.
We don’t get them around here and the video was really for the benefit of people watching my videos. I’ve seen pictures of them, maybe we will get them one day.
Don - at 2:40, is that a switched crossing? Didn't get a lot of those in steam days but I guess with higher train speeds they are vital.
I’m not sure. That junction is designed for 100 mph but it is held back by a signalling design and line speed enhancements. You can tell by the size of the facing locks. As for the mechanical detail, I pass over it far too quick to tell. Maybe an S&T engineer will comment.
Sorry, S&C engineer!
Hi Don, Great Video, thanks for explaining the signal system.. How many coaches are you pulling.??. Approx. how many Passengers are one the train? What Class Engine are your operating (How many Power Units)?? More I think about it is this Video done with several different runs??
Again Thanks for the Video.. Ed
Probably not the kind of unit you are used to on Amtrak Ed. Might be better to have a read of this link and then if anything isn’t clear just leave me another comment. Regards the video, yes, these are different runs on different days. Regards.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_185
Thankyou
Thank you!
Could you film a journey to/from Newcastle please?
I can’t because I don’t sign past York but maybe one of my colleagues can one day. Getting the required permission is the first hurdle.
Ah I see :)
6:51 the most depressing AWS ping ever?
You mean in the loop William? Sounded fairly normal to me 🤷🏻♂️
Not one passenger on the platforms. How do railways stay in business?
It depends which station and what time of day. It could be that the footage you are viewing was taken just after the stopping service went through.
Amtrak
Some @14:10. Many trains are packed and standing, even over long distances. Fares are high to discourage passengers because there are too many!
Didn’t know trains can run that fast in Britain…😜😜😜😜😜
That hare just made it out the way at 4:03
I dont think it will be long before trains completely drive themselves with software and AWS ramps.
There will always be a human in the cab to supervise the automation. Keep in mind all this signalling is being done by humans and will be for a while.
in America the train would have been slowed for the work zone
Yes, over here there are different levels of track work. For quick and less invasive work, they will work between the passage of trains but if the work requires them to interfere with the track in some way then they usually do the work overnight or at weekends. If the project is bigger, they will try and do it during long weekends where it has less impact. There are occasions where work can be done on adjacent lines or structures where they do reduce the speed of trains and a speed restriction “to protect the workforce” is imposed.
At 11:15 you state -" turning in at Dewsbury Station..." Should that not be Ravensthorpe Station?
No. The train turns off the main line at Dewsbury.
I thought Dewsbury was beyond Huddersfield when travelling east!
It is. We leave the main line at Dewsbury to call at the station. Trains that don’t stop run fast through the middle road. Is that what you mean?
👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks Peter.
What if qualifications do you need to become a train driver
Technically you don’t need any Jack but you will need to be able to get through a pretty tough selection process. Having a reasonably good education would help a lot. There are a lot of tests to do. Don’t let that put you off because I can guarantee that if you don’t apply you won’t get in but if you do, you might.
Cos am a year a 11 at high school doing my exams and of course am doing maths and English to Become a train driver and good education as well but am hoping so al be one one day
Good for you. Stick at it buddy and you’ll be OK. I used to drive those 323s and hopefully you will too.
Hopefully
Good luck....im 57 and thinking of applying....NOT lol..wish I had thought of doing the job though...its a great job...several members of my family have been onthe railways,my grandad did for 50 yrs
Yeah yeah yeah, keeping trucks off our congested roads. Why are they congested? And the trucks are a vital lifeline. Just beat us up everytime, don't worry yourselves we are used to being treat like pariah.
Can’t remember the reference James but trains will never ever compete with road transport. Don’t worry about it.
I was referring to the size as in #20 for most higher speed t/o in U S. The # designation refers to size of frog
angle hence the #20 frog would be for a t/o speed of around 60 MPH. In US most common t/o are #10 or #8
for M/L Tracks. M A C
OK, I appreciate your comments but its not terminology we use in the UK. The infrastructure is owned by Network Rail and they can create turnouts of all speeds where appropriate. The standard unmarked turnout speed is 15 mph but if you look at the York to Leeds video, you’ll see a 125 mph junction.
Was enjoying , but then my picture all went funny . Shame that . But very good nonetheless .
Thats a buffering problem with either your router or the server at TH-cam Graham. They sometimes sort themselves out at quieter times.
Really interesting video. I must admit if i was a driver I would be so tempted to just floor the train with all those lovely straight stretches of track.
We’re paid quite well not to exceed the speed limit.
Don Coffey depends what mob you work for some of us quite down the league!
What is the size of the turnouts #20 ???? T W M
Not sure what you mean.
This vid is a bit bluree until @1:16
TH-cam buffers the upload to the full 1080p after a short while. Try again now and I think you’ll find it clear.
Now this is better
This route signalling is so cumbersome and insufficient. It should have been replaced by a straightforward speed signalling system ages ago.
We Brits find this system less cumbersome. It has been elaborated in recent years in many places by the flashing double yellow aspect and flashing yellow aspects as indications to reduce speed before a junction
"2 flasing yellows", eh?
I take it you’re celebrating finding a spelling mistake. It happens.