It boggles the mind how rail infrastructure is so neglected outside of London. It's bad enough that Leeds has no underground or metro system, but even more ridiculous that cities as large as Manchester and Birmingham completely lack one either (Machester's metrolink is a tram, despite its name). Every city over 200,000 people should at least have a tram network, and yet you can count the tram systems in the whole country on one hand. Buses have many good uses, but they are simply not capable of delivering rapid mass transit on the scale and efficiency needed. This country's addiction to cars and repulsion towards common sense is a disease that will never be recovered from.
@@chrisgrant1029 Birmingham has one single tram line that doesn't even leave the city centre. Manchester has a reasonable tram network, but still far underdeveloped and in need of vast expansion. Compare them with any other European city that size and you'll see how poor these networks are (if you can even call Birmingham's a "network"). Bus networks are simply not capable of providing rapid mass transit across most of a city. They're great to fill in the gaps and cover less populated areas. Trying to replace trams and metros with buses is a cheap compromise that will always fail. Essentially, a solid metro/underground system should be supplemented by trams, and those trams should be supplemented by buses.
@idot that's where you are wrong. Birmingham's tram network extends far beyond city centre, as does Manchester's. Please do your research before making such misinformed comments.
Personally I prefer trolley busses. They are silent flexible on the road and do not need expensive rails. They can be installed without closing roads for weeks. They can be as fast as tramcars on dedicated roads.
One of my very good friends, a council civil engineer, who sadly died in a road accident a number of years ago once shed a little light on this. Under the old city square post office there are several layers of basement floors, and upon opening the door at the lowest level he recanted a large void under city square from which all he could see under torchlight were eyes - rat eye reflections. Is there something down there? Yes. I only wish I had asked further questions of him at the time, but such is life. I recall him saying that the door was rapidly closed again!
I lived in leeds for > 40 years and never heard of this. it's amazing what is in the past. However I see the start and failure build of the tram lines in the 80's. Thanks for sharing., Oh and Leeds was known as the capitol of the north back in the day.
I used to work in the Sainsbury's in the train station and heard of underground platforms that are used for storage by a lot of the fast food places on the opposite side of the concourse. I've never been down there myself but colleagues say they had done in years gone by. Apparently it's accessible via the service corridor that runs behind the short-stay car park. The platforms/tunnels run under Queens Hotel, possibly as far as Boar Lane from what I hear. Might be worth a look if you can manage to gain access to it.
They are not platforms, it's just cellars etc underneath the station that date from when it was built - the railway company being opportunistic given that the station is c.15ft in the air- they would have been used to store goods etc, and massively predate any tram proposals. There's a lift down from the service corridor yes, it leads to a labyrinth of small storage areas that in my experience stink of damp!!
Hi it’s all true I work in queens there’s tunnels all over. Queen was supposed to open the hotle but was sick so sent her sister instead and she walked all the way from town hall to Hotle in a tunnel. I’ve just watched this video and I never realy noticed that Leeds don’t have under ground of any type. Bradford has walking subways so hard to think Leeds don’t have. Seen the size of Leeds but ya too big not to have.
So iv worked at the Queens hotel and it’s true it goes down a few floors but it’s mostly used for parking however it does have access to the canal space underneath the trains station and a back door connection to the unused levels of the station (I think it’s the old stations underneath) It is also legend that thire are large tunnels that go as far as the town hall this was used by the mayor and governors at the time so that they could walk to the queens hotel as at the time the hotel had a lounge called the governors lounge (this is now the penthouse suite) on the 8th floor. The hotel also has all the original stuff from 50 -60 years ago in the basement levels and storage rooms Dutch as the coal storage room that are expansive and are the deepest levels of the basement that go below the river it also has the old ice room that have huge fans in them these were sued for air conditioning they used to have huge cubes of ice delivered from the canal (and yes thire is still a canal dock To the hotel but it’s flooded as of recently)
I worked a little further down on Wellington street in a venue that was (anecdotally) linked via tunnels that extensively to several Leeds landmarks and beyond.
Blackpool south line is now in an area with a much increased population. There have been requests to put a passing loop on the line to effectively double the frequency of services to pleasure beach & Blackpool south. These have been in "consultancy" for nearly ten years and nothing has been built. I've just been to London and on the local news they announced the upgrade of Liverpool Street station. Cost ? ... £1.5 billion . Levelling up ? I don't think so mate !! Great vid again Darren. Same story for Leeds eh ?
Yeah I saw that exact article too and laughed at the price tag of yet another London station revamp. We get nothing up here. Bradford the 6th largest city has a bus stop for a railway station. Ridiculous
Even here in the southwest the Portishead to Bristol line has been "in consultation for over 20 years even though the trackbed is already there and 50%of the rails! North of Watford or west of Reading, we're all screwed by London.
Its absolutely true that they continue to throw crumbs at everywhere outside London whilst spending obscene amounts in the capital that could fund multiple projects elsewhere. It shows what they actually think of the rest of the country. As for HS2 thats another London centric vanity project.
They try and justify the unjustifiable by saying that there is higher demand in London. True, but the population there is higher. What they don't say is that well funded integrated transport with modern clean trains and bright modern stations with frequent services encourages people to use it !! Do they think the rest of the population outside London are all naive and dim ?
Getting around in the West Yorkshire metropolitan area is almost impossible. If you commute to leeds you will be in traffic for hours every day. It’s insane that there isn’t any feasible transport links in one of the most densely populated parts of the U.K.
Thanks for another great video. Those stations seemed remarkably close together. The transport system in Leeds is shocking - I live in Otley and it takes forever to get into Leeds. Would love you to do a video on the old railway out to Otley that was closed due to the Beeching Report.
I think the Hatches in City Square are for the pumps for the now defunct fountains that were installed about a decade ago. A waste of money as it turned out. The pigeons loved them though.
One of many examples of "what might have been" in Leeds. Sadly, public transport was always a political football in Leeds with Labour being anti-tram. Had Leeds gone ahead with the tram subway idea, then they would now have the backbone of what many European cities have had for many years - a light rail system fit for a large city. Sadly, I fear that the current proposals for a "rapid transit system" for Leeds and West Yorkshire will suffer from the "let's re-invent the wheel" syndrome with highly paid consultants, instead of opting for tried and tested technology available off-the-shelf and used the world over.
Labour haven't made a budget since 2009. The labour council is still under the thumb of the tory government. If we had a Labour government we'd have the tram
@@hiigara2085 It was Labour who wanted to close the tramway in the early 1950s and Labour's Alistair Darling who cancelled the Supertram plans in 2005 after many millions spent on planning.
Thanks for this! I wish more British cities had a subway or a subway/tram hybrid system. Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Edinburgh, Bristol and Cambridge have all looked into building one at least once in past decades. 8 French cities and over 20 German cities have one.
I was taken as a young boy by my cousin's round a series of tunnels which went along Vicar Lane from the Corn exchange and was told that there was further access from near to the old Woodpecker pub towards Marsh Lane.Sadly both my cousin's are now dead so they cannot add to this memory of mine.
Rewatching all of your Leeds videos as I visited yesterday for the first time accompanying my husband on an Elland Road stadium tour. Seeing under Leeds station was soooo cool!
Hi Darren. Loved your video about the plan to build an underground transit system in Leeds. Pity it ever went ahead as it would have solved a lot of the traffic problems we currently have in Leeds. However there IS an uderground railway in Leeds. It ran from the old Leeds Central train station to the Post Office building in City Square and possibly with a link to Leeds City Station. There is still evidence of the tunnel as there are several, apparently, ventilation shafts still present. I know for a fact that there is one on Northern Street.
Forgot to add that it was apparently for transfering mail to and from Leeds Central Station and the Post Office sorting depot which was located behind the GPO building.
Great vlog as always Darren. As great a city as Leeds is I doubt very much there will be a mass transit system here in my lifetime and I'm 52. The way we are going the only thing we'll see are those 4 person bikes you see at holiday parks lol
I had relatives in the Leeds area and remember travelling to visit them on a tram.. I also remember the trams running on reserved central reservation on the road towards Ottley with the terminus being at the city boundary. The monorail would not have been able to connect with the rest of the tram system.
I am old enough to remember the Victorian toilets, although I think they were closed by then. I think there were glass bricks set into the pavement to light them.
I used to work in central Library and I am positive (I might be foggy as it's a few years ago) the local history library did a book display on "hidden Leeds". I remember seeing a plan of another underground station which was proposed to sit under the front of the town hall. Much similar to the City Square design. I discussed the hidden toilets on City Square with an only security guard and he said the signs that said "toilets" were still on the wall (behind the locked door) when he worked for street services in the early 00s. It's a shame Leeds Libraries can't let you film behind the scenes there as there is lots of interesting things from a bygone era related to the building that the public doesn't know exists. Like the original "Leeds Porcelain Company" toilets which are from the 1800s.
you should do the tunnels under the university, the tunnels from the gpo building on Wellington Rd from the old central station or the underground toilets under Briggate.... if they're still accessible
The seating/flower bed areas in City Square you pointed out with hatchways are/were possibly access points to electricity cables at one time intended to install pedestal lighting in the Square. As far as the subway is concerned... been rumoured for a long time and Leeds actually purchased 2 single-deck trams brand new in 1952 built in Leeds by Roe of Crossgates , nos 601 and 602 and painted purple. Always known as an oddball purchase, the City was still very tram focussed even that late.
So rumour has it that there was a test pit sank to test the ground for the leeds subway system outside the old Agnes Stewart school in east leeds and that’s why there’s a mound of earth at the far corner we’re the fence meets road up to Jimmys.
Another great video. Thanks very much Darren and happy Lancashire day (27.Nov.22). Makes you wonder what could have been if Westminster and Whitehall hadn't shafted the North. Looking forward to the next one...!
The latest plans for a mass transit system are quite ambitious, a mixture of co-ordinated light rail, heavy rail and bus lines with single ticketing across West Yorkshire providing an integrated Metro style system with easy transfers between transport types. Of course, it'll never happen, especially with us entering a prolonged period of recession due to this inept government and it'll just be yet another one of the many proposals that never go anywhere. In the time I've lived here there have been several proposals, trolley buses, trams, traditional buses on an extensive network of dedicated busways and even the trialling of those Wright Streetcar bendy buses a few years ago. None of the proposals got far and I suspect this latest more ambitious scheme wont get far either. The problem is London, that's where pretty much every penny goes. The Elizabeth Line, the Jubilee Line Extension, the revamp of Kings Cross, Paddington, Euston and soon Liverpool Street stations all costing many billions and all in London with very little other than crumbs for the regions.
Great video Darren, There was a subway in lower briggate from about the mid or late 1960's where the [Closed] House Of Fraser is now it went under the road can't think of shops over the road that were there at the time, I can remember walking through it don't know why but it felt a bit spooky at the time it got filled in about the early 1970's.
Great vid Darren. I was talking to a guy, many years ago, who knew quite a few from the Secret Leeds site. And he also mentioned this. Saying that someone has being down their and seen the said tunnel, With track in place ?
Yet again another fantastic video. Love the stuff you do. The amount of underground chambers and rooms in leeds is crazy. Millenium square has some too....aparrently. keep up the great work pal.
Hi just watched with interest your Underground Subway, Great really enjoyed! thank you. There is an almost identical stainless steel locked entrance to tunnels outside the old Bank of England Building in Bristol. Sorry I cannot remember where you can see the pics/vids but I think obviously TH-cam, they are definitely Locked Entrances to Tunnels Have Fun Ant
Great video mate I think there underground or something itsa big shame that leeds don't have a tram network there that was great video mate can't wait for next video I hope you and your family and friends are well and safe
The Kearney system seems to operate along an approximate _brachistochrone curve_ - the shortest-time path between two points in a uniform gravitational field. That's a neat idea. What a shame Leeds got rid of its trams: the dedicated tramways could have formed the basis of a much-improved light railway system. I used to love the route through Miggy woods.
Of course it wasn't just Leeds... apart from Blackpool *every* town and city in the UK which had a system closed it down because buses were seen as more flexible in their operations *and* more and more people began to buy cars, as prosperity grew. Fast forward to the 80s and 90s... road congestion was now a major problem and the idea of tram networks began to find favour. Manchester (which originally also had a plan for underground rail transport, known as the PiccVic scheme) eventually got the go ahead for Metrolink, connecting two rail corridors via an on-street section... it has since gone from strength to strength. I agree that Leeds has lost out here and would hope that eventually a system will get built. Mention should also be made of Newcastle/Gateshead which just managed to get the Metro built before financial restrictions bit countrywide.
Instead of a mass transit service, Leeds Council is working hard to make road travel worse. Eg. Limited right turns on Hunslet Road and removing the City Station main entrance taxi rank. This will be replaced by a 6 bay area not close to the station.
Not really right. Mass transit relies on huge funding. They're drawing up plans again for it at the moment, in the hope that drumming it up more will secure central funding. Unlikely but not really in their hands. Past councils missed their chance
@@HillProductions1878 Yes. One only has to remember the pre-pandemic £178m funding which needed spending on a transport system, in Leeds, before we left the EU. Little to no effort was made to begin a new mass transit project and Leeds Council lost its right to use the money.
The doors in the raised flower beds contain a pump for a (missing) water feature and the lower /smaller one are temp power hookups for events. You'll find all but matching ones/designs in Millennium Sqr for power hooks ups too. And of course a load of underground tunnels that have been re-purposed into event storage and toilets and cable raceways. Much like those on the corner of the Merrion Centre - now closed up too.
I know that this project was featured in a magazine; I think Modern Tramway, some decades ago. Although Leeds does indeed lack a modern transit system I remember that when I first moved there in 1988 I was massively impressed by the cheap bus and rail tickets in the extensive geographical Metro area. At the time I considered that this pricing structure and the extensive network of buses (and to a lesser extent, trains) was much more geared to mass usage than many other areas around the country. But the huge bugbear was the inadequate number of coaches on the trains. Burley Park station in inner-suburban Leeds was opened at that period and was my local station. It was often impossible to board trains there, Leeds bound, during the morning peak due to overcrowding. I would personally have liked to see the modern trolleybus scheme introduced as was planned for a few years ago but hey ho....
Fascinating! It would be great if you could get down there and have a look, I love the way that you get to places that I can’t go. Many thanks for a lovely friendly, and interesting channel. Greetings from Birmingham.
I think it would be great if you could get into that underground tunnel. What a fantastic vlog as always Darren. Thoroughly enjoyed this. Your enthusiasm is so catching. Thank you.
Interesting insight again Darren, this time a bit closer to home. I am sure their must me lots more to uncover about the infrastructure and buildings in Leeds City Centre :)
The plan you showed of the proposal for City square, with its two-level station shows Stockholm trams at both levels. Long, blue-liveried and with centre entrances that were a feature of the Stockholm system until its closure in the early 1960's.
I distinctly remember, some years back now, proposals for a tram network in Leeds that must have advanced pretty fast forward, because it even showed up in the Leeds edition of the AZ Street Map as being proposed. Obviously it never came to pass, but I don't understand how a major city like Leeds doesn't have an extensive tram network and underground metro. The unwillingness of successive governments to properly invest in public transport outside of London boggles the mind, and this is coming from a Londoner...
Always interesting Darren thank you unfortunately I’m not familiar with Leeds but did make a visit there in 2003. Nice city it is but I did get lost a few times. Anyway thank you.
@8:44 is that an open vent behind you ? Could put a camera (maybe boroscope) in there to see what it is, a boroscope would also be handy for those drains
How useful this would be these days. Getting across Leeds is horrendous, especially north/south. Also getting to St James hospital takes forever. I hope the promisec leveling up tram system will extend to useful places !
Hi, Leeds person here. I reached some of this in my years at university. If I have this correct. An underpass and toilet is hidden at the lower Briggett, between McDonald's and what was the Yorkshire Bank. There is an image somewhere, where the place is a concrete slab on top of the Victorian toilets. Around the time of trams. Also if so true. The start of the experimental tube line was actually under millennium square and is still there. Somehow accessed by the secret society of LCC in the Civic Hall. Leodis may have images or can be requested from the collector. I would have to shift through very old computer files to find these. 😊😊.
Looks like Leeds has a very charming city council. At 8:43 what is that little hole over your left shoulder??? Maybe it leads to one of the old Victorian bathrooms vent fans???
@@geoffas Is it "Le toilet" or "La toilet" Over here the dems have come up with about 38 genders - - - but real science still says two genders "man and woman."
No idea if it would be linked to the city square subway/toilets but over your right shoulder right at the start there is a blue “welcome to Leeds station sign” blocking up part of the Queens Hotel. Behind there is a staircase down to what was a nightclub (planet earth/bondi beach). Can’t tell you if it was under city square. Just remember there were a lot of stairs and a revolving dance floor 😂
I remember the revolving Dance Floor when it was Planet Earth, came out of there on a night out still feeling like everything was spinning , but I think it was under the hotel to be honest.
That space was originally a cinema called the News Theatre which as its bane suggested, only showed newsreels. (The letters are still embossed on the floor outside the vagel place, which must once have been a side entrance.) Later on it became a 'mucky cinema' (Tatler Film Club?) and then a nightclub. Idk when the revolving dance floor was put in. I remember the one on the Tuxedo Princess (former TSS Caledonian Princess) party boat on the Tyne, and it was great fun. That was the ship's former car deck turntable repurposed as a dance floor! Back to the Queens, I'd love to know if any of the original fittings survived the nightclub conversion, but I doubt it sadly.
I'd hazard a guess that the hatchways you found in the raised stone blocks surrounding the city centre were to allow maintenance of the "walkable-through" fountains which were installed right in the middle of City Square at around the same time. The raised stone blocks (now gone) are relatively new and were installed sometime around the 90s. Nevertheless, fascinating video - thank you! The documents evidencing advanced planning were a revelation and I've lived in Leeds for almost 60 years.
You should do a video on mount st Mary's church, thats connected to mount st Mary's school. It's built on top of abandoned cole mines, and every one thinks it haunted and has been shut down all my life. Theres been a scaffolding on the side of it for atleast 15years , it's like they just stopped working 1 day half way through renovating the outsidr and never went back for there scaffolding. I could tell you endless story's well worth checking out.
@@lukerichardson1638 it's in Leeds and its right behind mount st Mary's high school. It's an abandoned church on top of a hill looks like something out of a movie. I've had several weird experiences with the place , growing up everyone on the estate belived it was haunted. Deffinetly something some one should make a video about
Enjoyed the video, never been to leeds, looks a nice town centre. Love the vintage trams and the old pics of the toilets, yes where you pointed out could well be them, thanks for sharing this, always so interesting.
Am old enough to remember the trams in Leeds. Was young at the time but I remember travelling up York Road on one. Cant remember where it terminated at that time, maybe Crossgates? Did they get rid of them in the late 50s early 60s?
You all seem to have forgotten Newcastle, a very successful metro system, with new tunnels , interchange stations, a new bridge built over tha Tyne, and using old railway. It even goes to the airport. Go and see.
Another very interesting video all those panels at street level must lead to some points of detail. As Crystal Palace is mentione here i am going back to that one as I lived near to the old Crystal Palace site as a child
That would have been a bonus if the underground trams/trains has been running. Saved me walking from Station to the numerous sites i worked at in Leeds
In 1970 I went down a tunnel opposite Walice Arnold on Hunslet Road the tunnel was 8 feet high 6 feet wide we were told it went from Leeds city to Stourton never told what it was used for ( deputy training as I worked down the pit ) Lewis
Interesting, as I never knew of plans for an underground railway in Leeds. The proposals of having a monorail under the city were quite advanced for that period. Many thanks Darren, for this video.
Intesting, I would have thought Leeds would have had one by now, as they alway's seems to try and out Do Sheffield with everything else! When are you coming back to Sheffield Darren? It's not as grim as people say! We have some fantastic places.
All that's left under City Square after its many, many refurbishments are the old toilets, which linked in to part of the WW2 air raid shelters. There were some old air filter pumps found there in early 80's which were donated to Eden Camp. Apart from that, it's just utilities.
I used to work in Leeds, and took young trainees around the place, looking for industrial changes. I seem to remember there was an access to the works under City Square from the old post office?
My father was always critical of Leeds Council for ridding Leeds of the tramways and when at Crich museum was telling us that he thought that it was a travesty we had the modern looking tram and then the rest of Europe kept their systems. He had been a bus driver for Leeds. In later years of course he repeated some of this when many of the roads had bus lanes where tram lines would have been. We lived on the Beeston side of Elland Road and I do recollect, just, the tram depot near the Queens Hall. You have made me wonder whether what was the old below ground toilets at the bottom of Brigggate were in any way connected to the underground system you describe?
The plan was that the subways would come to the surface and connect with the existing tram lines, for example the loop line in the city center would have linked up with middleton and the others with york road, roundhay etc The problem was money. Leeds 600 (preserved at Crich) was the test car and actually entered passenger service in 1954, a year after her sisters 601 and 602. Being non standard they were withdrawn in 1957, offered for sale, the cars were purchased as follows. 600 and 602 - TMS Crich with 601 going to middleton.
Watching the video, when it came to tram 600 I was sure that I'd read somewhere that 601 and 602 were constructed with underground operation in mind; unfortunately, I've no idea where to start looking to see if I've still got the relevant article, and if anything more was said about the Leeds proposals for an underground tram network
Leeds is perfect the way it is. It is truly one of the most beautiful cities to visit - very walkable. Sure it could benefit say from a tram service, but it is one of my most favourite cities. I simply love it. They have done a brilliant job of saving the past - thus the architecture is such a treat. Did I mention I love Leeds?
In France we have 29 (modern) tram systems, 6 subway systems and 2 trolleybuses systems in 2023 often within the cities about 150 000 inhabitants or more that said I'm glad in my country people have interest about the public transportation...
Hey Darren Another intriguing video on what could and should have been. Shortsighted politicians, of all political persuasions, have blighted development for as long as there’s been men and women of vision. Leeds City Council in particular seem to have an established track record when, in 1946, Landscape Architect, Ralph Hancock, approached the corporation with incredible plans for a Peace Garden at Temple Newsam. The gardens, consisting of 30 designs from different countries and with 'appropriate' architectural settings, were drawn up at a cost of 300 Guineas. Hancock was invited to the Civic Offices on 2 January to present his ideas. As well as the gardens, Ralph's plans also included an open air theatre with dressing pavilions. A bandstand with a lawn for garden parties. A car park for 1,000 cars as well as woodland reserved for picnics. The plans also ran to a day nursery for young children. To recuperate costs, Hancock also planned to sell an illustrated guidebook. The story received detailed coverage in the Yorkshire Post on 3 January. The initial reaction was one of total commitment from the Corporation. But, as the plans evolved over the next couple of months, doubts seem to have arisen. And, on June 7 1946, the plans were cancelled. Leeds Corporation said that they no longer wished to proceed with the gardens and that they had only committed to paying for Ralph's plans to be drawn up. It’s such a shame that our elected officials often find it difficult to see beyond the tips of their delicate noses!
I'm born bred and still live in Leeds and it upsets me knowing all these plans for mass transit routes that get rumoured never get set into full effect the undergrounds system plans would of join the city up very well and the council should start looking at doing those similar routes but for trams around the city as trams would be cheaper than building a whole underground system
Much more recently (up to the 1960s) there were underground toilets at the Corn Exchange. You can still see some steps going down just by the junction of Call Lane.
Hello how are you. I work in the queens hotle I’ve seen secrect tunnels and doors and things. The queen was supposed to open the hotle but she was sick so she sent her sister to open it. She walked through a tunnel from Leeds town hall all the way to the queens hotle. I believe your video sir. Until I watched this video I didn’t realy notice that there was no underground anything. Thanks for the video
I knew about this scheme from reading a Yorkshire Post paper published in the 70's but never saw any plans of the station. It is such a shame it was never built. In 1981 the first thing I recorded on my VHS recorder was opening Tyne & Wear Metro. Leeds were planning on reviving this idea all those years ago and spent millions on planning it. My Mother met one of the planners on a train to Newcastle going to look at what they had done and was told about the proposals and how much they had spent so far. Leeds have wasted huge amounts on these ideas and several more and still we are waiting while lots of other cities have got on building and now have well used rapid transit to their suburbs. I have heard about tunnels under the hotel and post office which went through to Dark Arches but have not seen any plans of them. The LMS Society had a display in Queens Hotel many years ago which had plans and photos of Dark Arches. If there were tunnels linking them all I would think they would be shown on those plans.
Hello good sir..My wife and I are absolutely amazed by your efforts..You do your homework beautifully..So greatly appreciated and ENJOYED. The amusement park, among others, with the Helter Skelter, the lake etc..Lining up the before and after positions in photos is ABSOLUTELY marvelous...Huge thank you for doing so..That only keeps us watching and waiting for the next one..And then the next again..How professional, informative, entertaining, sentimental and historic!!..And what a beautiful footprint for YOU to leave...😊
The London Underground was running in the 19th century (1869 ish) so it had a good start. Think twice before you ask for a Leeds tramway. Residents of Edinburgh are still waiting for theirs. Its years late and the cost and disruption its causing will be talked about for years to come.....😶
It boggles the mind how rail infrastructure is so neglected outside of London. It's bad enough that Leeds has no underground or metro system, but even more ridiculous that cities as large as Manchester and Birmingham completely lack one either (Machester's metrolink is a tram, despite its name). Every city over 200,000 people should at least have a tram network, and yet you can count the tram systems in the whole country on one hand. Buses have many good uses, but they are simply not capable of delivering rapid mass transit on the scale and efficiency needed. This country's addiction to cars and repulsion towards common sense is a disease that will never be recovered from.
Birmingham and Manchester both have mass transit systems in the form of buses and trams
@@chrisgrant1029 Birmingham has one single tram line that doesn't even leave the city centre. Manchester has a reasonable tram network, but still far underdeveloped and in need of vast expansion. Compare them with any other European city that size and you'll see how poor these networks are (if you can even call Birmingham's a "network"). Bus networks are simply not capable of providing rapid mass transit across most of a city. They're great to fill in the gaps and cover less populated areas. Trying to replace trams and metros with buses is a cheap compromise that will always fail. Essentially, a solid metro/underground system should be supplemented by trams, and those trams should be supplemented by buses.
@@idot3331 Birmingham's tram actually goes from the city centre to Wolverhampton but nevertheless it still needs a metro system.
@idot that's where you are wrong. Birmingham's tram network extends far beyond city centre, as does Manchester's. Please do your research before making such misinformed comments.
Personally I prefer trolley busses. They are silent flexible on the road and do not need expensive rails. They can be installed without closing roads for weeks. They can be as fast as tramcars on dedicated roads.
One of my very good friends, a council civil engineer, who sadly died in a road accident a number of years ago once shed a little light on this. Under the old city square post office there are several layers of basement floors, and upon opening the door at the lowest level he recanted a large void under city square from which all he could see under torchlight were eyes - rat eye reflections. Is there something down there? Yes. I only wish I had asked further questions of him at the time, but such is life. I recall him saying that the door was rapidly closed again!
I lived in leeds for > 40 years and never heard of this. it's amazing what is in the past. However I see the start and failure build of the tram lines in the 80's. Thanks for sharing., Oh and Leeds was known as the capitol of the north back in the day.
The part where the photo of ' said council meeting' had me cracked up laughing 😆
Me too Vickie
Me too
@@AdventureMe Any more gigs coming up? x
made me laugh too, so funny, and accurate!
Looks like both Leeds and Wakefield council meetings
Loved the council meeting image 👍.
All I could think of was Hot Fuzz and them all saying 'The Greater Good....." 😄
I used to work in the Sainsbury's in the train station and heard of underground platforms that are used for storage by a lot of the fast food places on the opposite side of the concourse. I've never been down there myself but colleagues say they had done in years gone by. Apparently it's accessible via the service corridor that runs behind the short-stay car park. The platforms/tunnels run under Queens Hotel, possibly as far as Boar Lane from what I hear. Might be worth a look if you can manage to gain access to it.
I've already done two videos on these mate. Have a look back through my uploads.
They are not platforms, it's just cellars etc underneath the station that date from when it was built - the railway company being opportunistic given that the station is c.15ft in the air- they would have been used to store goods etc, and massively predate any tram proposals. There's a lift down from the service corridor yes, it leads to a labyrinth of small storage areas that in my experience stink of damp!!
Hi it’s all true I work in queens there’s tunnels all over. Queen was supposed to open the hotle but was sick so sent her sister instead and she walked all the way from town hall to Hotle in a tunnel. I’ve just watched this video and I never realy noticed that Leeds don’t have under ground of any type. Bradford has walking subways so hard to think Leeds don’t have. Seen the size of Leeds but ya too big not to have.
So iv worked at the Queens hotel and it’s true it goes down a few floors but it’s mostly used for parking however it does have access to the canal space underneath the trains station and a back door connection to the unused levels of the station (I think it’s the old stations underneath)
It is also legend that thire are large tunnels that go as far as the town hall this was used by the mayor and governors at the time so that they could walk to the queens hotel as at the time the hotel had a lounge called the governors lounge (this is now the penthouse suite) on the 8th floor.
The hotel also has all the original stuff from 50 -60 years ago in the basement levels and storage rooms Dutch as the coal storage room that are expansive and are the deepest levels of the basement that go below the river it also has the old ice room that have huge fans in them these were sued for air conditioning they used to have huge cubes of ice delivered from the canal (and yes thire is still a canal dock To the hotel but it’s flooded as of recently)
I worked a little further down on Wellington street in a venue that was (anecdotally) linked via tunnels that extensively to several Leeds landmarks and beyond.
It's quite frankly nuts that such a densely populated area like Leeds/Bradford doesn't have a decent metro system.
Yes it is
They built a cycle route instead🤣🤣🤣🤣
And doubly nuts that it should be in part based on cheaper trolley buses.
@@corrigenda70 didn't even get that
Blackpool south line is now in an area with a much increased population. There have been requests to put a passing loop on the line to effectively double the frequency of services to pleasure beach & Blackpool south. These have been in "consultancy" for nearly ten years and nothing has been built. I've just been to London and on the local news they announced the upgrade of Liverpool Street station. Cost ? ... £1.5 billion . Levelling up ? I don't think so mate !! Great vid again Darren. Same story for Leeds eh ?
Yeah I saw that exact article too and laughed at the price tag of yet another London station revamp. We get nothing up here. Bradford the 6th largest city has a bus stop for a railway station. Ridiculous
Even here in the southwest the Portishead to Bristol line has been "in consultation for over 20 years even though the trackbed is already there and 50%of the rails!
North of Watford or west of Reading, we're all screwed by London.
Absolutely true Nick. Sadly for other parts of the country...
Its absolutely true that they continue to throw crumbs at everywhere outside London whilst spending obscene amounts in the capital that could fund multiple projects elsewhere. It shows what they actually think of the rest of the country. As for HS2 thats another London centric vanity project.
They try and justify the unjustifiable by saying that there is higher demand in London. True, but the population there is higher. What they don't say is that well funded integrated transport with modern clean trains and bright modern stations with frequent services encourages people to use it !! Do they think the rest of the population outside London are all naive and dim ?
Getting around in the West Yorkshire metropolitan area is almost impossible. If you commute to leeds you will be in traffic for hours every day. It’s insane that there isn’t any feasible transport links in one of the most densely populated parts of the U.K.
I agree
But but but the tories are busy levelling up the country and investing in massive transport improvements in the north. Aren’t they?
Thanks for another great video. Those stations seemed remarkably close together. The transport system in Leeds is shocking - I live in Otley and it takes forever to get into Leeds. Would love you to do a video on the old railway out to Otley that was closed due to the Beeching Report.
Same, it's terrible getting from otley to Leeds and even worse now they have got rid of the X84.
As always, a very interesting video. See you on the next! Cheers mate!
Great to watch and so embarrassing that Leeds has no tram system when places like Nottingham and Sheffield have.
I love imagining what might have been. Fascinating video
Thanks Rob
I think the Hatches in City Square are for the pumps for the now defunct fountains that were installed about a decade ago. A waste of money as it turned out. The pigeons loved them though.
Good call, I had a quick Google and found quite a few photos of them. Evenly spaced in the ground in a circle around the outside edge
One of many examples of "what might have been" in Leeds. Sadly, public transport was always a political football in Leeds with Labour being anti-tram. Had Leeds gone ahead with the tram subway idea, then they would now have the backbone of what many European cities have had for many years - a light rail system fit for a large city. Sadly, I fear that the current proposals for a "rapid transit system" for Leeds and West Yorkshire will suffer from the "let's re-invent the wheel" syndrome with highly paid consultants, instead of opting for tried and tested technology available off-the-shelf and used the world over.
Labour haven't made a budget since 2009. The labour council is still under the thumb of the tory government. If we had a Labour government we'd have the tram
@@hiigara2085 It was Labour who wanted to close the tramway in the early 1950s and Labour's Alistair Darling who cancelled the Supertram plans in 2005 after many millions spent on planning.
Thanks for this! I wish more British cities had a subway or a subway/tram hybrid system. Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Edinburgh, Bristol and Cambridge have all looked into building one at least once in past decades. 8 French cities and over 20 German cities have one.
Yes I agree. It's criminal how cities outside of London get treated.
@@AdventureMe The word you are looking for is “Prejudice” Leeds’ is treated the worst of all
our great cities.
I was taken as a young boy by my cousin's round a series of tunnels which went along Vicar Lane from the Corn exchange and was told that there was further access from near to the old Woodpecker pub towards Marsh Lane.Sadly both my cousin's are now dead so they cannot add to this memory of mine.
Marsh Lane Tunnels were/are utility tunnels now used mainly for telecoms cables.
Rewatching all of your Leeds videos as I visited yesterday for the first time accompanying my husband on an Elland Road stadium tour. Seeing under Leeds station was soooo cool!
Have fun!
Absolutely love the council meeting photo, and the "distance from the M25" commentary 👍🏻😂
It's so true lol
Hi Darren. Loved your video about the plan to build an underground transit system in Leeds. Pity it ever went ahead as it would have solved a lot of the traffic problems we currently have in Leeds.
However there IS an uderground railway in Leeds. It ran from the old Leeds Central train station to the Post Office building in City Square and possibly with a link to Leeds City Station. There is still evidence of the tunnel as there are several, apparently, ventilation shafts still present. I know for a fact that there is one on Northern Street.
Forgot to add that it was apparently for transfering mail to and from Leeds Central Station and the Post Office sorting depot which was located behind the GPO building.
This comes up a lot. The ventilation shafts on Northern Street and Queen Street are for a utility tunnel (for pipes and cables), not a railway.
I think there is access to it from the street at the corner of Queen Street and St Paul's Street directly in front of the Qtwo building.
Great vlog as always Darren. As great a city as Leeds is I doubt very much there will be a mass transit system here in my lifetime and I'm 52. The way we are going the only thing we'll see are those 4 person bikes you see at holiday parks lol
I had relatives in the Leeds area and remember travelling to visit them on a tram.. I also remember the trams running on reserved central reservation on the road towards Ottley with the terminus being at the city boundary. The monorail would not have been able to connect with the rest of the tram system.
I am old enough to remember the Victorian toilets, although I think they were closed by then. I think there were glass bricks set into the pavement to light them.
Great to see you going local darren ,please more
What a fascinating programme, particularly the Kearney system. Both it and the tunnels well worth the research.
I used to work in central Library and I am positive (I might be foggy as it's a few years ago) the local history library did a book display on "hidden Leeds". I remember seeing a plan of another underground station which was proposed to sit under the front of the town hall. Much similar to the City Square design.
I discussed the hidden toilets on City Square with an only security guard and he said the signs that said "toilets" were still on the wall (behind the locked door) when he worked for street services in the early 00s.
It's a shame Leeds Libraries can't let you film behind the scenes there as there is lots of interesting things from a bygone era related to the building that the public doesn't know exists. Like the original "Leeds Porcelain Company" toilets which are from the 1800s.
you should do the tunnels under the university, the tunnels from the gpo building on Wellington Rd from the old central station or the underground toilets under Briggate.... if they're still accessible
Have you gone into the dark arches and worked your way towards the square / under the queens.....there is allsorts under there.....
The seating/flower bed areas in City Square you pointed out with hatchways are/were possibly access points to electricity cables at one time intended to install pedestal lighting in the Square.
As far as the subway is concerned... been rumoured for a long time and Leeds actually purchased 2 single-deck trams brand new in 1952 built in Leeds by Roe of Crossgates , nos 601 and 602 and painted purple. Always known as an oddball purchase, the City was still very tram focussed even that late.
So rumour has it that there was a test pit sank to test the ground for the leeds subway system outside the old Agnes Stewart school in east leeds and that’s why there’s a mound of earth at the far corner we’re the fence meets road up to Jimmys.
Nice one daz. So glad your back local. Great video like always
Thanks matey
I've worked a few open air live events at Millennium Sq and those raised flower bed hatches lead to power hook ups we used.
Another great video. Thanks very much Darren and happy Lancashire day (27.Nov.22). Makes you wonder what could have been if Westminster and Whitehall hadn't shafted the North. Looking forward to the next one...!
The latest plans for a mass transit system are quite ambitious, a mixture of co-ordinated light rail, heavy rail and bus lines with single ticketing across West Yorkshire providing an integrated Metro style system with easy transfers between transport types. Of course, it'll never happen, especially with us entering a prolonged period of recession due to this inept government and it'll just be yet another one of the many proposals that never go anywhere. In the time I've lived here there have been several proposals, trolley buses, trams, traditional buses on an extensive network of dedicated busways and even the trialling of those Wright Streetcar bendy buses a few years ago. None of the proposals got far and I suspect this latest more ambitious scheme wont get far either.
The problem is London, that's where pretty much every penny goes. The Elizabeth Line, the Jubilee Line Extension, the revamp of Kings Cross, Paddington, Euston and soon Liverpool Street stations all costing many billions and all in London with very little other than crumbs for the regions.
Great video Darren, There was a subway in lower briggate from about the mid or late 1960's where the [Closed] House Of Fraser is now it went under the road can't think of shops over the road that were there at the time, I can remember walking through it don't know why but it felt a bit spooky at the time it got filled in about the early 1970's.
Awesome and super interesting video as usual 👍
Thanks matey
Fascinating video on what might have been.
Great vid Darren.
I was talking to a guy, many years ago, who knew quite a few from the
Secret Leeds site. And he also mentioned this.
Saying that someone has being down their and seen the said tunnel,
With track in place ?
Yet again another fantastic video. Love the stuff you do. The amount of underground chambers and rooms in leeds is crazy. Millenium square has some too....aparrently. keep up the great work pal.
Yes it does Peter, I have been in those ones though. They are just dressing rooms and toilets.
Hi just watched with interest your Underground Subway, Great really enjoyed! thank you. There is an almost identical stainless steel locked entrance to tunnels outside the old Bank of England Building in Bristol. Sorry I cannot remember where you can see the pics/vids but I think obviously TH-cam, they are definitely Locked Entrances to Tunnels Have Fun Ant
Ich möchte mich noch einmal für alles bedanken. Für die vielen wunderbaren Videos die ich schauen durfte.
Great video mate I think there underground or something itsa big shame that leeds don't have a tram network there that was great video mate can't wait for next video I hope you and your family and friends are well and safe
The Kearney system seems to operate along an approximate _brachistochrone curve_ - the shortest-time path between two points in a uniform gravitational field. That's a neat idea.
What a shame Leeds got rid of its trams: the dedicated tramways could have formed the basis of a much-improved light railway system. I used to love the route through Miggy woods.
Of course it wasn't just Leeds... apart from Blackpool *every* town and city in the UK which had a system closed it down because buses were seen as more flexible in their operations *and* more and more people began to buy cars, as prosperity grew. Fast forward to the 80s and 90s... road congestion was now a major problem and the idea of tram networks began to find favour. Manchester (which originally also had a plan for underground rail transport, known as the PiccVic scheme) eventually got the go ahead for Metrolink, connecting two rail corridors via an on-street section... it has since gone from strength to strength. I agree that Leeds has lost out here and would hope that eventually a system will get built. Mention should also be made of Newcastle/Gateshead which just managed to get the Metro built before financial restrictions bit countrywide.
Thanks matey
@@AdventureMe My pleasure!
Instead of a mass transit service, Leeds Council is working hard to make road travel worse. Eg. Limited right turns on Hunslet Road and removing the City Station main entrance taxi rank. This will be replaced by a 6 bay area not close to the station.
Not really right. Mass transit relies on huge funding. They're drawing up plans again for it at the moment, in the hope that drumming it up more will secure central funding. Unlikely but not really in their hands. Past councils missed their chance
Thanks matey
@@HillProductions1878 Yes. One only has to remember the pre-pandemic £178m funding which needed spending on a transport system, in Leeds, before we left the EU. Little to no effort was made to begin a new mass transit project and Leeds Council lost its right to use the money.
The doors in the raised flower beds contain a pump for a (missing) water feature and the lower /smaller one are temp power hookups for events.
You'll find all but matching ones/designs in Millennium Sqr for power hooks ups too. And of course a load of underground tunnels that have been re-purposed into event storage and toilets and cable raceways. Much like those on the corner of the Merrion Centre - now closed up too.
I know that this project was featured in a magazine; I think Modern Tramway, some decades ago. Although Leeds does indeed lack a modern transit system I remember that when I first moved there in 1988 I was massively impressed by the cheap bus and rail tickets in the extensive geographical Metro area. At the time I considered that this pricing structure and the extensive network of buses (and to a lesser extent, trains) was much more geared to mass usage than many other areas around the country. But the huge bugbear was the inadequate number of coaches on the trains. Burley Park station in inner-suburban Leeds was opened at that period and was my local station. It was often impossible to board trains there, Leeds bound, during the morning peak due to overcrowding. I would personally have liked to see the modern trolleybus scheme introduced as was planned for a few years ago but hey ho....
Another great look into the past.Thanks Darren.😀👍
Thanks matey
Fascinating! It would be great if you could get down there and have a look, I love the way that you get to places that I can’t go. Many thanks for a lovely friendly, and interesting channel. Greetings from Birmingham.
I think it would be great if you could get into that underground tunnel. What a fantastic vlog as always Darren. Thoroughly enjoyed this. Your enthusiasm is so catching. Thank you.
Thanks Shirley
Interesting insight again Darren, this time a bit closer to home. I am sure their must me lots more to uncover about the infrastructure and buildings in Leeds City Centre :)
The plan you showed of the proposal for City square, with its two-level station shows Stockholm trams at both levels. Long, blue-liveried and with centre entrances that were a feature of the Stockholm system until its closure in the early 1960's.
Thanks for another really interesting video, it will be great if you manage to find more evidence. I look forward to seeing your next video.
I distinctly remember, some years back now, proposals for a tram network in Leeds that must have advanced pretty fast forward, because it even showed up in the Leeds edition of the AZ Street Map as being proposed. Obviously it never came to pass, but I don't understand how a major city like Leeds doesn't have an extensive tram network and underground metro. The unwillingness of successive governments to properly invest in public transport outside of London boggles the mind, and this is coming from a Londoner...
I agree Kevin. We just don't get the money. We don't matter compared to London.
Always interesting Darren thank you unfortunately I’m not familiar with Leeds but did make a visit there in 2003. Nice city it is but I did get lost a few times. Anyway thank you.
Thanks matey
@8:44 is that an open vent behind you ?
Could put a camera (maybe boroscope) in there to see what it is, a boroscope would also be handy for those drains
How useful this would be these days. Getting across Leeds is horrendous, especially north/south. Also getting to St James hospital takes forever. I hope the promisec leveling up tram system will extend to useful places !
Hi, Leeds person here. I reached some of this in my years at university. If I have this correct. An underpass and toilet is hidden at the lower Briggett, between McDonald's and what was the Yorkshire Bank. There is an image somewhere, where the place is a concrete slab on top of the Victorian toilets. Around the time of trams. Also if so true. The start of the experimental tube line was actually under millennium square and is still there. Somehow accessed by the secret society of LCC in the Civic Hall. Leodis may have images or can be requested from the collector. I would have to shift through very old computer files to find these. 😊😊.
Looks like Leeds has a very charming city council. At 8:43 what is that little hole over your left shoulder??? Maybe it leads to one of the old Victorian bathrooms vent fans???
Yeah I spotted that on editing too. Looks like a vent.
@@AdventureMe Well at least you know I pay attention when I watch your fine work....... lol
You seem to have 'misgendered' the toilets as "bathrooms" - have you lived in America for a long time? LOL ;-)
@@geoffas Is it "Le toilet" or "La toilet" Over here the dems have come up with about 38 genders - - - but real science still says two genders "man and woman."
No idea if it would be linked to the city square subway/toilets but over your right shoulder right at the start there is a blue “welcome to Leeds station sign” blocking up part of the Queens Hotel. Behind there is a staircase down to what was a nightclub (planet earth/bondi beach). Can’t tell you if it was under city square. Just remember there were a lot of stairs and a revolving dance floor 😂
I remember the revolving Dance Floor when it was Planet Earth, came out of there on a night out still feeling like everything was spinning , but I think it was under the hotel to be honest.
That space was originally a cinema called the News Theatre which as its bane suggested, only showed newsreels. (The letters are still embossed on the floor outside the vagel place, which must once have been a side entrance.) Later on it became a 'mucky cinema' (Tatler Film Club?) and then a nightclub. Idk when the revolving dance floor was put in. I remember the one on the Tuxedo Princess (former TSS Caledonian Princess) party boat on the Tyne, and it was great fun. That was the ship's former car deck turntable repurposed as a dance floor! Back to the Queens, I'd love to know if any of the original fittings survived the nightclub conversion, but I doubt it sadly.
I'd hazard a guess that the hatchways you found in the raised stone blocks surrounding the city centre were to allow maintenance of the "walkable-through" fountains which were installed right in the middle of City Square at around the same time. The raised stone blocks (now gone) are relatively new and were installed sometime around the 90s. Nevertheless, fascinating video - thank you! The documents evidencing advanced planning were a revelation and I've lived in Leeds for almost 60 years.
A 1 in 7 drop as you leave the station? I'm guessing people didn't carry a coffee or tea with them on the way to work back when that was designed!
You should do a video on mount st Mary's church, thats connected to mount st Mary's school. It's built on top of abandoned cole mines, and every one thinks it haunted and has been shut down all my life. Theres been a scaffolding on the side of it for atleast 15years , it's like they just stopped working 1 day half way through renovating the outsidr and never went back for there scaffolding. I could tell you endless story's well worth checking out.
It would be great to know more on this if you know any more info?
@@lukerichardson1638 it's in Leeds and its right behind mount st Mary's high school. It's an abandoned church on top of a hill looks like something out of a movie. I've had several weird experiences with the place , growing up everyone on the estate belived it was haunted. Deffinetly something some one should make a video about
Enjoyed the video, never been to leeds, looks a nice town centre.
Love the vintage trams and the old pics of the toilets, yes where you pointed out could well be them, thanks for sharing this, always so interesting.
Many thanks!
Great video again! I never knew about any of this!
Thanks matey
Another interesting vlog Darren, yes it would be nice to see behind those doors to see if the test tunnel was dug .
Aww Brilliant! Thank you so much!
Am old enough to remember the trams in Leeds. Was young at the time but I remember travelling up York Road on one. Cant remember where it terminated at that time, maybe Crossgates? Did they get rid of them in the late 50s early 60s?
I remember in the late 90s they opened up the full square and you could see 2 big air-raid shelters... with tiled floors and walls ...
That would have been the old toilets. The air raid shelters were built on top. Hence why they got bombed. Lol
You all seem to have forgotten Newcastle, a very successful metro system, with new tunnels , interchange stations, a new bridge built over tha Tyne, and using old railway. It even goes to the airport. Go and see.
Great video loved it. Almost as much as the Butlins Filey ones !!
Thanks 👍
Fascinating subject,thanks. What might have been....
Another very interesting video all those panels at street level must lead to some points of detail. As Crystal Palace is mentione here i am going back to that one as I lived near to the old Crystal Palace site as a child
Glad you enjoyed it
That would have been a bonus if the underground trams/trains has been running. Saved me walking from Station to the numerous sites i worked at in Leeds
In 1970 I went down a tunnel opposite Walice Arnold on Hunslet Road the tunnel was 8 feet high 6 feet wide we were told it went from Leeds city to Stourton never told what it was used for ( deputy training as I worked down the pit ) Lewis
Interesting, as I never knew of plans for an underground railway in Leeds. The proposals of having a monorail under the city were quite advanced for that period. Many thanks Darren, for this video.
Intesting, I would have thought Leeds would have had one by now, as they alway's seems to try and out Do Sheffield with everything else! When are you coming back to Sheffield Darren? It's not as grim as people say! We have some fantastic places.
Thanks, yes hopefully if i have something substantial.
Leeds doesn’t try and out do Sheffield the two cities are worlds apart, Leeds always has been and always will be yorkshires top dog
All that's left under City Square after its many, many refurbishments are the old toilets, which linked in to part of the WW2 air raid shelters. There were some old air filter pumps found there in early 80's which were donated to Eden Camp. Apart from that, it's just utilities.
Fascinating stuff.
I used to work in Leeds, and took young trainees around the place, looking for industrial changes. I seem to remember there was an access to the works under City Square from the old post office?
You should do a Video on the Former Trams of Leeds
Very enjoyable something about Leeds I never knew. Interesting those access points in city Square.
Thanks Pete.
That was very interesting Darren hmm definitely food for thought
Thank you again for another great video
My father was always critical of Leeds Council for ridding Leeds of the tramways and when at Crich museum was telling us that he thought that it was a travesty we had the modern looking tram and then the rest of Europe kept their systems. He had been a bus driver for Leeds. In later years of course he repeated some of this when many of the roads had bus lanes where tram lines would have been. We lived on the Beeston side of Elland Road and I do recollect, just, the tram depot near the Queens Hall. You have made me wonder whether what was the old below ground toilets at the bottom of Brigggate were in any way connected to the underground system you describe?
The plan was that the subways would come to the surface and connect with the existing tram lines, for example the loop line in the city center would have linked up with middleton and the others with york road, roundhay etc The problem was money. Leeds 600 (preserved at Crich) was the test car and actually entered passenger service in 1954, a year after her sisters 601 and 602. Being non standard they were withdrawn in 1957, offered for sale, the cars were purchased as follows. 600 and 602 - TMS Crich with 601 going to middleton.
Watching the video, when it came to tram 600 I was sure that I'd read somewhere that 601 and 602 were constructed with underground operation in mind; unfortunately, I've no idea where to start looking to see if I've still got the relevant article, and if anything more was said about the Leeds proposals for an underground tram network
I worked very near the Holborn kingsway under bus tunnel still there but not used made for double decker buses.
That was a tram tunnel, not for buses.
Leeds is perfect the way it is. It is truly one of the most beautiful cities to visit - very walkable. Sure it could benefit say from a tram service, but it is one of my most favourite cities. I simply love it. They have done a brilliant job of saving the past - thus the architecture is such a treat. Did I mention I love Leeds?
There is/was an air raid shelter beneath city Square, there used to be a large picture of the entrance in the museum (the old museum)
In France we have 29 (modern) tram systems, 6 subway systems and 2 trolleybuses systems in 2023 often within the cities about 150 000 inhabitants or more that said I'm glad in my country people have interest about the public transportation...
Yeah it's not like that in the UK. Only major cities have transport
Hey Darren
Another intriguing video on what could and should have been.
Shortsighted politicians, of all political persuasions, have blighted development for as long as there’s been men and women of vision.
Leeds City Council in particular seem to have an established track record when, in 1946, Landscape Architect, Ralph Hancock, approached the corporation with incredible plans for a Peace Garden at Temple Newsam.
The gardens, consisting of 30 designs from different countries and with 'appropriate' architectural settings, were drawn up at a cost of 300 Guineas. Hancock was invited to the Civic Offices on 2 January to present his ideas.
As well as the gardens, Ralph's plans also included an open air theatre with dressing pavilions. A bandstand with a lawn for garden parties. A car park for 1,000 cars as well as woodland reserved for picnics. The plans also ran to a day nursery for young children. To recuperate costs, Hancock also planned to sell an illustrated guidebook. The story received detailed coverage in the Yorkshire Post on 3 January.
The initial reaction was one of total commitment from the Corporation. But, as the plans evolved over the next couple of months, doubts seem to have arisen. And, on June 7 1946, the plans were cancelled. Leeds Corporation said that they no longer wished to proceed with the gardens and that they had only committed to paying for Ralph's plans to be drawn up.
It’s such a shame that our elected officials often find it difficult to see beyond the tips of their delicate noses!
I'm born bred and still live in Leeds and it upsets me knowing all these plans for mass transit routes that get rumoured never get set into full effect the undergrounds system plans would of join the city up very well and the council should start looking at doing those similar routes but for trams around the city as trams would be cheaper than building a whole underground system
Much more recently (up to the 1960s) there were underground toilets at the Corn Exchange. You can still see some steps going down just by the junction of Call Lane.
Hello how are you. I work in the queens hotle I’ve seen secrect tunnels and doors and things. The queen was supposed to open the hotle but she was sick so she sent her sister to open it. She walked through a tunnel from Leeds town hall all the way to the queens hotle.
I believe your video sir.
Until I watched this video I didn’t realy notice that there was no underground anything. Thanks for the video
I knew about this scheme from reading a Yorkshire Post paper published in the 70's but never saw any plans of the station. It is such a shame it was never built. In 1981 the first thing I recorded on my VHS recorder was opening Tyne & Wear Metro. Leeds were planning on reviving this idea all those years ago and spent millions on planning it. My Mother met one of the planners on a train to Newcastle going to look at what they had done and was told about the proposals and how much they had spent so far. Leeds have wasted huge amounts on these ideas and several more and still we are waiting while lots of other cities have got on building and now have well used rapid transit to their suburbs. I have heard about tunnels under the hotel and post office which went through to Dark Arches but have not seen any plans of them. The LMS Society had a display in Queens Hotel many years ago which had plans and photos of Dark Arches. If there were tunnels linking them all I would think they would be shown on those plans.
Great work, fascinating as ever.
Hello good sir..My wife and I are absolutely amazed by your efforts..You do your homework beautifully..So greatly appreciated and ENJOYED. The amusement park, among others, with the Helter Skelter, the lake etc..Lining up the before and after positions in photos is ABSOLUTELY marvelous...Huge thank you for doing so..That only keeps us watching and waiting for the next one..And then the next again..How professional, informative, entertaining, sentimental and historic!!..And what a beautiful footprint for YOU to leave...😊
Thanks
Thanks too
@@AdventureMe 👍
The London Underground was running in the 19th century (1869 ish) so it had a good start. Think twice before you ask for a Leeds tramway. Residents of Edinburgh are still waiting for theirs. Its years late and the cost and disruption its causing will be talked about for years to come.....😶
Darren, on the theme of what's beneath City Square, I've sent you an email about the old News Theatre cinema, beneath the Queens Hotel.
I saw in the Leeds library years ago the plans for a underground in the 1930s.