I ride LW Meilensteins tubulars all year round. Love them. After a good 30 000kms the brake tracks are fine - I'm only 63kg and hardly ever brake where I ride (no traffic, few hairpins). I'm quite happy on them in winds up to 70km/h or so.
Ollie Bridgewood used these on a super-light hill climb bike on a GCN (or maybe he was still at Cycling Weekly at the time). That seems to be the right usage for such wheels: a one-off speed attempt where you're not braking much.
I've been riding the Gen 3 tubular for the past 6 years. I'm a big guy and these wheels are stout as hell. They have great ride quality and spin up really well. So light, stiff and durable. Be sure to use the correct brake pads. Expensive, but well worth it. Perfectly true forever.
Thank you so much for making such great content. I appreciate yout honest, straight to the matter approach which is becoming increasingly rare in the cycling world that is full of marketing fancy-schmancy.
Raoul. This channel is absolutely amazing. Is pure glory. Pre knowledge. Please, keep this all coming. I hope ths all gets more and more exposure through the time. You really deserve it. THANK YOU.
Thank You for this great independent industry-insider videos. As a former amateur road racer and physics teacher I love them. I'm going to share Your channel to my passionate cyclists friends.
Production is getting great! The combination of explanation and quality closeups works really good. I would assume the critique of carbon clinchers only counts for rim brake models. Disc brakes would avoid that direct heat issue.
there must be a way to treat the breaking surface so the rim will last longer (and the braking properties even improved) Every year some sort of glue with fine sand on the rim and there you go : )
I ride continental comp and Podium TT 19mm on mine, rear, and front, respectively, and am very happy with the aerodynamics and grip of Continental Tubulars. HINT: I slightly stretch them and only re-apply white gas with a cotton cloth in order to make the rim surface tacky once again, then install the tire and fill to 170psi, each tire. PERFECT EVERY TIME!
I work in a bike shop in Austria and we sell Lightweight wheels. If you live in Europe the wear and tear of the braking surface is not such a problem because you can send the rims back to them for a repair. They come back with a new over layer of carbon. I guess that is a problem when you live overseas.
If I was a carbon frame or wheel and saw I was being shipped to your address, !"I WOULD FIND A WAY TO ESCAPE"! Ha ha ha ha ha. Great work as always, you're the best.
The rim v disc debate is nullified when you consider you can have your very expensive lightweight disc version wheels knowing you will never wear them out with all the braking in the world and have piece of mind. I once owned a pair of these wheels and the performance of them is subliminal and dare I say I took many risks by keeping the braking to the most minimal amount I could get away with for both resale value and longevity. I ended up selling them eventually in great condition with minimal wear after doing around 6000k on them. They held their value well considering I had them for a decade and got almost half of what I payed for them in an ever emerging disc market. Thank goodness also for the explosion of disc road bike market as I will never buy rim brake wheels this expensive again!
best no bullshit show on the go ! i'm a fan. Subscribed. i only wished i lived where you are so i could pay you to tweak my ride. guys like you are rare as hen's teeth.
For me the big disadvantage of my Meilenstein 16/20 rim brake wheels is lousy braking in the rain. I took them on a cycle camp where we rode in deluges for several days. When I applied the brakes, nothing happened for a while. Actual braking, when it finally began, was unimpressive. Yes disc brakes would solve the problem, but the Meilenstein 24/24 disc brake wheels weigh nearly 200g more than the rim brake version (more spokes in the front, wider rims, plus the hub needs a carrier for the rotor?). And the additional weight of the rotors on top of that. For roughly the same total weight as the disc Meilensteins with rotors, I'd prefer a set of rim brake carbon/alloy hybrids, either Shimano C-40's or HED Jet 4 Black's. Both have alloy brake surfaces for better braking in the wet. And are about 1/3 the price of the Meilensteins. The Meilensteins are a touch twitchy in cross gusts, say when a dump truck whizzes by in the opposite direction. Manageable but noticeable. But I'll stick with the Meilensteins for now because I rarely ride in the rain, and rim braking with them is acceptable in the dry. I've hit a few pavement holes I failed to see and the rims have survived those impacts. They are definitely are very stiff, light, and smooth-rolling.
I ride mine on a daily basis -- the key is to clean them and never ride them in the rain. I've had mine now since 2008 and brake surface is perfect, but then again I armorall them and clean them before each ride. At $4k for the pair, I cannot afford not to.
Any feel for if the foam is syntactic or a blown material? You may be interested to sand the cut cross sections very smooth then wipe a bit of oil over it-- it really reveals the structure of the tows. It seems they could add an abrasion resistant filler like silica, alumina or SiC to the brake tracks to make them last longer. Fascinating video!
I believe the foam used is Rohacell. Yes I have polished laminate samples previously and then viewed them with a microscope, you can see the individual filaments. I am not sure that they want them to last longer!
Nice detailed review. I would like to see cut ups of other wheel manufacturers for comparison. Campagnolo Bora, Zipp, and Enve for example. Also cut ups of tubular vs. clincher for educational purposes.
Getting some money saved for an ultrasound machine to scan these carbon wheels. Would be nice if people started doing reviews with ultrasound and x ray scans of the wheels. $1200 gets you a decent started ultrasound machine. Awesome video here!!!
Luescher Teknik right now from Aliexpress you can grab a 10 inch portable ultrasound machine for veterinarian use ( it still scans anything under the head) for 1500$. Bigger units with a cart for office use go for 5000-10000$. Not saying it’s cheap but you can buy them direct from medical supply companies. X-ray machines cost a lot more though. A planmeka 180 pan x ray scanner is around 12,000 ( asked my dentist about it)
I was reading that on the OBERMAYER due to its even lighter weight braking needs to taken seriously and lightly VS the 'Standard' Meilenstein..... I have an Evo-Hi-MOD for a once in a great while bike with full Enve, SRAM RED-11, TRP mag. brakes, etc and have Enve 45 classic tubulars =1120 grams but thinking of the Meilenstein Schwarz which has ceramic bearings, as far as looks and build quality I think LightWeight is the leader and you pay for that so you need to be careful when you're out on the road. I had Rolf TDF 4SL tubulars on a System 6 I had a few years ago, I really liked those and light at 1165 and they have excellent rebuild program
Luescher, can you please reply with an answer to this question please: On my Lightweight tubular wheels, should I continue to stick with pads provided by Lightweight OR just go ahead and use those carbon pads made by quikstop? I realize that quikstop makes them for Lightweight, but are they the same pad? Thanks in advance.
I am responding to my own question. To preserve my wheels I intend to only use those pads made by Swisstop which are designated as "Lightweight", because 'could be' or 'the same' does not cut it with me'. Also, I make sure I clean my wheels before and after each ride, then armoral them. (use a tire protectant on them to smooth out the braking surface, and they work great, kind of semi-grippy as well). My wheels are is fantastic shape and are now 11-years old.
Been thinking about how they tension the spokes (they must surely)... Possibly one side of the wheel is built 'free' before finally spreading and securing onto the hub shell. Looking at the drive side @ 1:37 it seems to me that the thin carbon shell and the semi-conical section to the spoke flange are all independent which would be evidence of this. Looks like there's a definite line between the carbon spoke flange ring thing which holds the spokes and the conical layer. Must be built to pretty tight tolerances to ensure a true wheel...
what about braking during wet conditions and now i dont talk about braking performance , i am talking about damaging braking surface with litlle sand which water can bring from tarmac .....does carbon surface survive some rainy event on carbon wheels ?
I was wondering that too. Are the spokes tensioned? It would be odd (and unlike any other sparsely spoked wheel) if they weren't, but I guess the rim might be rigid enough for the wheel to hang off the upper spokes with no tension in the lower spokes.
Not sure how it's done, but one way full carbon wheels are done is this: The spokes are all made the same length and attached to the rim and hub flanges. Then they are put under tension as the flanges are pulled apart and set at the ends of the hub shell. This puts everything under perfectly even tension. There is not way to true them.
great great video. I must ask, why don't bike pad manufacture design a pad that breaks down from braking force much more quickly such that the rim braking surface won't diminish. I mean conservation of energy; the heat has to go somewhere and material has to be taken away why not the braking pad. Braking pad are cheap(er) and the rim surface will last forever. I don't see why it can not be done. My guess is it has to do with the physical property of the pad if it is made to be worn out quicker. Maybe a quicker worn out pad can not resist all the forces in a hard braking (bits from the pad body might chip off). I am not sure I am just a EE not or mechanical engineer :P. Looking forward to your answer and point of view. Thanks for the videos.
Thanks Raoul, I'm not sure about the UCI Kevlar wisdom, as I saw one of these very wheels literally explode right in front of me at the Commonwealth games in 2006 in Melbourne. Quite spectacular and there wasn't much left of the wheel as I recall. Last video I recall you saying you're very busy, so hopefully that's still the reason for no content lately. A general discussion on composite wheel longevity would be a good video, as there are so many full carbon wheels around now. I have a pair with around 70,000 m vertical on them and not too much sign of brake wear, so I'm curious to see how long they will last.
i had a 2009 r3 sl that developed the dreaded bb crack, if I remember correctly I was told it was a mould issue, not sure if that meant they just didn't have enough material thickness in that area but I'm sure Raoul would know, didn't complain though as I got a brand new R5 with rotor cranks for nothing yewww!
I wonder wheter it would make sense to put some more layers of composite with high temperature resin on the brake surface to make the wheels last longer ?
What kind of braking would create those hot conditions for the resin to get soft? I know it depends on a lot of things but do i need to think about really hard braking during descending in the mountains, slow braking over longer periods (also during descending e.g.) or can it also happen when your in an easy group ride on level terrain?
I'm confused at 6:46 because the angle of V type rims makes it easy for the wind on a crosswind scenario to exit faster that a U shaped rim which is more like perpendicular acting like a wall. I have both rims (50mm) and use them interchangeably and swear I can tell the difference. Is there any real life studies that proves them otherwise apart from just wind tunnel? great video BTW.
Don O the sharp V type shape will stall more quickly than a rounded trailing edge, causing low pressure 'bubbles' on the leeward side, giving the stalled environment instability. The rounded U shape stalls at higher angles of attack, and stalls with less and smaller low pressure zones behind it.
they never need to be trued.... also if you break a spoke then the wheel can be a bin job! mind you lightweight do a crash replacement of 30% off the cost of a new wheel if required...
There is no way they can be as true as a wheel with spokes and nipples. I have seen Mad Fiber wheels which are the same full set carbon structure and they were wobbly as hell.
Ryan De Silva i know that. what I'm asking is how are the wheels trued and spokes pre tensioned when they are bonded. it's a very interesting procedure. obviously the spokes do need to be tensioned as in use if they were at 0 Newtons half of the spokes would go in to compression/buckling!
Not sure how it's done, but one way full carbon wheels are done is this: The spokes are all made the same length and attached to the rim and hub flanges. Then they are put under tension as the flanges are pulled apart and set at the ends of the hub shell. This puts everything under perfectly even tension. There is not way to true them.
@@LuescherTeknik thanks mate. I have zipp 808 right now in my tt bike and is planning to buy 404 or lightweight for my RB. I was really confused about the decision that i will make but now you made it clear based on your experience. Thanks man. Looking forward on Lightweights now.
These wheels are engineering masterpieces, but they have very specific use, climbing (however, in headwind, or no wind, with nicely matching tires may be fairly aero as well, but i'd rather use more robust design on flat). Probably, as steeper the climp, the more they shine. The company have 20-30 years of experience with carbon, in car racing, where life can depend on product quality. That's what you can see: well and very specific design, excellent production quality. You don't pay marketing price, engineering, build quality and quality control price instead. For the channel: I think we dearly missing the importance of reasoning these days, such a joyful experience!
If you get the chance can you cut up a Mad Fibre wheel! If you get a beyond repair one in Apparently the best wheels for braking out there according to the company which I emailed once,they said the wheels were being used in cyclo x with no issues! Unless anyone else has experienced otherwise?
I have had quite a few of these come in, but the owners always wanted them back for the unique look they had. The clincher had an alu extrusion bonded to the carbon side skins, they used to disbond at that join.
Don't know why deeper rims are not available in alloy would not be that huge a weight difference and anyway i would not mind that versus Carbon,alloy can be super thin and strong like we know! Maybe even a titanium wheel?
Aluminium just doesn't have the stiffness for large unsupported areas. Titanium is difficult to draw into the shape and is not ideal for a number of other reasons, Araya did a Ti rim many many years ago as a trial.
and a lot of people think disc breaks on road bikes are a scam... carbon is the real scam. making overweight middle aged white men take out a mortgage... atleast carbon parts like wheels. frames and forks are becoming more affordable and they before great. but for now. steel and disc breaks for me.
Carbon fiber are ideal for light people (for less stress on bike), and for well experienced cyclist for ultmate small improvement. I weight 58Kg in 1,75m of height and full carbon fibre road bike never give me a problem (Bianchi Xl 2005). A new novist big guy need a cheap high weight for more fatigue, for decrease the weight himself. It is useless to take long step from beginning... So, carbon fibre aren't a scam, but for specific cyclist.
Just imagine cheap carbon. This type of wheel is not for the timid or turn-key operator who just wants to jump on and ride, they must be cleaned before and after each ride in order to maintain them properly.
Lightweight Junk! Waste of Money, 3 times the price of a high end carbon wheel set! One can buy a Dt Swiss high carbon wheel set for one third the price Lightweight paper carbon wheels, plus Dt will last 1000 times longer than Lightweight paper trash wheels!
they could easily do the u shape by filling the gap it would make, the harder part is making a mold. i dont think ppl should have a to pay a premium for a design thats dated and proven to be not as good in the real world
Everything that's unreliable is shit no matter how light or stiff- these wheels are well engineered for lightness and stifness, but the reliability make them useless- no wonder pro teams aren't using them. Another company that were making similar type of expensive wheelsets were Madfiber- and they went bankrupt.
Team Ineos road them in all the difficult mountain stages in the 2020 TDF. Interestingly enough, Ineos is one of the only GC teams that decided against riding disc rotors.
Overall, I would say it is a specific wheel for racing only but other training will a daily rider definitely not will too expensive and pretty much non-repairable being practical I would have to give this will👎🏿 thumbs down
His channel name is his business name... So absolutely no need for Raoul to change his channel name. Raoul does technical reviews...ie: the technology & materials used in the bike industry, specifically carbon fiber...If you want bike reviews there are dozens of publication and channels who do that ( for what little they are usually worth) This channel is outstanding....you are obviously in the wrong place...but view his work, you may learn something.
Brandon Green Why should he change his name? As for reviewing cheaper frames and wheels, he probably doesn't get many in since they're not worth the cost to repair? Would be interesting if he could get his hands on a few, but I'm not complaining.
He doesn't get anywhere near enough views or likes to justify cutting up such a wheel😟. But he's one closer now 👍
folks send him bits for free though, right?
Yeah these are damaged parts already
Theses parts are already end of life, worn out brake surface, and cracked rim
I can only assume this wheel was in a crash and unrepairable, thus he was able to cut it up. Very good presentation I might add.
As always, honest review with no BS.
I ride LW Meilensteins tubulars all year round. Love them. After a good 30 000kms the brake tracks are fine - I'm only 63kg and hardly ever brake where I ride (no traffic, few hairpins). I'm quite happy on them in winds up to 70km/h or so.
Ollie Bridgewood used these on a super-light hill climb bike on a GCN (or maybe he was still at Cycling Weekly at the time). That seems to be the right usage for such wheels: a one-off speed attempt where you're not braking much.
I've been riding the Gen 3 tubular for the past 6 years. I'm a big guy and these wheels are stout as hell. They have great ride quality and spin up really well. So light, stiff and durable. Be sure to use the correct brake pads. Expensive, but well worth it. Perfectly true forever.
Great to hear comments like this. Thanks.
What is your weight?
Thank you so much for making such great content. I appreciate yout honest, straight to the matter approach which is becoming increasingly rare in the cycling world that is full of marketing fancy-schmancy.
Raoul. This channel is absolutely amazing. Is pure glory. Pre knowledge. Please, keep this all coming. I hope ths all gets more and more exposure through the time. You really deserve it. THANK YOU.
Thank You for this great independent industry-insider videos. As a former amateur road racer and physics teacher I love them. I'm going to share Your channel to my passionate cyclists friends.
Production is getting great! The combination of explanation and quality closeups works really good. I would assume the critique of carbon clinchers only counts for rim brake models. Disc brakes would avoid that direct heat issue.
Thanks, re disc brakes, they remove this issue entirely, just like on every other mode of transport!
there must be a way to treat the breaking surface so the rim will last longer (and the braking properties even improved) Every year some sort of glue with fine sand on the rim and there you go : )
I ride continental comp and Podium TT 19mm on mine, rear, and front, respectively, and am very happy with the aerodynamics and grip of Continental Tubulars. HINT: I slightly stretch them and only re-apply white gas with a cotton cloth in order to make the rim surface tacky once again, then install the tire and fill to 170psi, each tire. PERFECT EVERY TIME!
I work in a bike shop in Austria and we sell Lightweight wheels. If you live in Europe the wear and tear of the braking surface is not such a problem because you can send the rims back to them for a repair. They come back with a new over layer of carbon. I guess that is a problem when you live overseas.
spending so much and then needing brake surface replaced regularly would be a big problem for me
@@markevasion5769 Not a problem at all. Just get special breaks
If I was a carbon frame or wheel and saw I was being shipped to your address, !"I WOULD FIND A WAY TO ESCAPE"! Ha ha ha ha ha. Great work as always, you're the best.
It would be great to see the same review with a Zipp wheel! Great video, very informative.
Another great vid. You are like the Quincy ME of carbon bike frames and wheels. I always learn something new about carbon in your vids.
The rim v disc debate is nullified when you consider you can have your very expensive lightweight disc version wheels knowing you will never wear them out with all the braking in the world and have piece of mind.
I once owned a pair of these wheels and the performance of them is subliminal and dare I say I took many risks by keeping the braking to the most minimal amount I could get away with for both resale value and longevity. I ended up selling them eventually in great condition with minimal wear after doing around 6000k on them.
They held their value well considering I had them for a decade and got almost half of what I payed for them in an ever emerging disc market.
Thank goodness also for the explosion of disc road bike market as I will never buy rim brake wheels this expensive again!
Great video fella...looking forward to the C50 video...
best no bullshit show on the go ! i'm a fan. Subscribed.
i only wished i lived where you are so i could pay you to tweak my ride. guys like you are rare as hen's teeth.
For me the big disadvantage of my Meilenstein 16/20 rim brake wheels is lousy braking in the rain. I took them on a cycle camp where we rode in deluges for several days. When I applied the brakes, nothing happened for a while. Actual braking, when it finally began, was unimpressive.
Yes disc brakes would solve the problem, but the Meilenstein 24/24 disc brake wheels weigh nearly 200g more than the rim brake version (more spokes in the front, wider rims, plus the hub needs a carrier for the rotor?). And the additional weight of the rotors on top of that.
For roughly the same total weight as the disc Meilensteins with rotors, I'd prefer a set of rim brake carbon/alloy hybrids, either Shimano C-40's or HED Jet 4 Black's. Both have alloy brake surfaces for better braking in the wet. And are about 1/3 the price of the Meilensteins.
The Meilensteins are a touch twitchy in cross gusts, say when a dump truck whizzes by in the opposite direction. Manageable but noticeable.
But I'll stick with the Meilensteins for now because I rarely ride in the rain, and rim braking with them is acceptable in the dry. I've hit a few pavement holes I failed to see and the rims have survived those impacts.
They are definitely are very stiff, light, and smooth-rolling.
I just saw an American Pickers episode last night were they found a bicycle with wooden wheels from 1892.
the carbon wheel would not last that long
Joni English sure they would, but the wooden wheels wouldn't be safe to ride and neither would the carbon.
Yeah, didn't Lance win his first Tour on those wheels?
Thanks Raoul, fascinating as always.
this really helps. I've always rolled my eyes these products. less so now.
I ride mine on a daily basis -- the key is to clean them and never ride them in the rain. I've had mine now since 2008 and brake surface is perfect, but then again I armorall them and clean them before each ride. At $4k for the pair, I cannot afford not to.
good video content, this channel deserves more subscribers
Any feel for if the foam is syntactic or a blown material? You may be interested to sand the cut cross sections very smooth then wipe a bit of oil over it-- it really reveals the structure of the tows. It seems they could add an abrasion resistant filler like silica, alumina or SiC to the brake tracks to make them last longer. Fascinating video!
I believe the foam used is Rohacell. Yes I have polished laminate samples previously and then viewed them with a microscope, you can see the individual filaments. I am not sure that they want them to last longer!
Nice detailed review. I would like to see cut ups of other wheel manufacturers for comparison. Campagnolo Bora, Zipp, and Enve for example. Also cut ups of tubular vs. clincher for educational purposes.
Getting some money saved for an ultrasound machine to scan these carbon wheels. Would be nice if people started doing reviews with ultrasound and x ray scans of the wheels. $1200 gets you a decent started ultrasound machine. Awesome video here!!!
My system cost a lot more than that, but good luck if you can get it.
Luescher Teknik right now from Aliexpress you can grab a 10 inch portable ultrasound machine for veterinarian use ( it still scans anything under the head) for 1500$. Bigger units with a cart for office use go for 5000-10000$. Not saying it’s cheap but you can buy them direct from medical supply companies. X-ray machines cost a lot more though. A planmeka 180 pan x ray scanner is around 12,000 ( asked my dentist about it)
You can use these wheels in daily basis, no problem. I have Madfibers tubulars and I have put them trough hell an back and they are still like new.
awesome video thankyou. nicely edited and clear presentation. keep it up!
Thanks.
This channel is great!
I was reading that on the OBERMAYER due to its even lighter weight braking needs to taken seriously and lightly VS the 'Standard' Meilenstein..... I have an Evo-Hi-MOD for a once in a great while bike with full Enve, SRAM RED-11, TRP mag. brakes, etc and have Enve 45 classic tubulars =1120 grams but thinking of the Meilenstein Schwarz which has ceramic bearings, as far as looks and build quality I think LightWeight is the leader and you pay for that so you need to be careful when you're out on the road.
I had Rolf TDF 4SL tubulars on a System 6 I had a few years ago, I really liked those and light at 1165 and they have excellent rebuild program
Luescher, can you please reply with an answer to this question please: On my Lightweight tubular wheels, should I continue to stick with pads provided by Lightweight OR just go ahead and use those carbon pads made by quikstop? I realize that quikstop makes them for Lightweight, but are they the same pad? Thanks in advance.
I am responding to my own question. To preserve my wheels I intend to only use those pads made by Swisstop which are designated as "Lightweight", because 'could be' or 'the same' does not cut it with me'. Also, I make sure I clean my wheels before and after each ride, then armoral them. (use a tire protectant on them to smooth out the braking surface, and they work great, kind of semi-grippy as well). My wheels are is fantastic shape and are now 11-years old.
Lance's Reign was the golden shower of competitive cycling.
What would be high-performance resin?
Been thinking about how they tension the spokes (they must surely)... Possibly one side of the wheel is built 'free' before finally spreading and securing onto the hub shell. Looking at the drive side @ 1:37 it seems to me that the thin carbon shell and the semi-conical section to the spoke flange are all independent which would be evidence of this. Looks like there's a definite line between the carbon spoke flange ring thing which holds the spokes and the conical layer.
Must be built to pretty tight tolerances to ensure a true wheel...
Hi any advice on buying obermayers Schwartz edition tubular please
Hey Raul, could you do a video about what we should be looking out for around wear on braking surfaces?
Best video yet
I'm not getting these wheels anymore! Thanks for the video!
why not they are great
what about braking during wet conditions and now i dont talk about braking performance , i am talking about damaging braking surface with litlle sand which water can bring from tarmac .....does carbon surface survive some rainy event on carbon wheels ?
Always interesting...
Do Lightweights not need to control spoke tension?
no; don't know how they do that, but they stay perfect true for their lifetime
I was wondering that too. Are the spokes tensioned? It would be odd (and unlike any other sparsely spoked wheel) if they weren't, but I guess the rim might be rigid enough for the wheel to hang off the upper spokes with no tension in the lower spokes.
Just like Mad Fiber wheels were unadjustable.
I've had mine since 2008 and they are plug & play, no adjustments whatsoever.
Not sure how it's done, but one way full carbon wheels are done is this:
The spokes are all made the same length and attached to the rim and hub flanges. Then they are put under tension as the flanges are pulled apart and set at the ends of the hub shell. This puts everything under perfectly even tension. There is not way to true them.
Thanks for Sharing videos
What was the actual TG on the resin when you analysed it?
great great video.
I must ask, why don't bike pad manufacture design a pad that breaks down from braking force much more quickly such that the rim braking surface won't diminish. I mean conservation of energy; the heat has to go somewhere and material has to be taken away why not the braking pad. Braking pad are cheap(er) and the rim surface will last forever. I don't see why it can not be done.
My guess is it has to do with the physical property of the pad if it is made to be worn out quicker. Maybe a quicker worn out pad can not resist all the forces in a hard braking (bits from the pad body might chip off). I am not sure I am just a EE not or mechanical engineer :P.
Looking forward to your answer and point of view.
Thanks for the videos.
1 point for disc breaks. 0 for rim.
There are such break pads and they are strongly recommendes for carbon
Thanks Raoul, I'm not sure about the UCI Kevlar wisdom, as I saw one of these very wheels literally explode right in front of me at the Commonwealth games in 2006 in Melbourne. Quite spectacular and there wasn't much left of the wheel as I recall.
Last video I recall you saying you're very busy, so hopefully that's still the reason for no content lately. A general discussion on composite wheel longevity would be a good video, as there are so many full carbon wheels around now. I have a pair with around 70,000 m vertical on them and not too much sign of brake wear, so I'm curious to see how long they will last.
Gen III and up are very very good now. That must have been one hell of a hit that rider took in order for them to disintegrate.
Well done!
Have you worked on any pre 2011 cervelo r3's which had bottom bracket shell cracking issues?.........interesting video as always! Thanks
Lots of times!
Would be interesting to hear you talk about the design failure and your solution/repair method. Thanks
i had a 2009 r3 sl that developed the dreaded bb crack, if I remember correctly I was told it was a mould issue, not sure if that meant they just didn't have enough material thickness in that area but I'm sure Raoul would know, didn't complain though as I got a brand new R5 with rotor cranks for nothing yewww!
I went through 2 of them.
I gather the wheel with the carbon spokes bonded to the rim, there's is never a need/ability to true the wheel?
Could you please raise your volume? thanks
Im wondering.. what bike do you ride? And whats the wheels and gear setup? Thanks!
I wonder wheter it would make sense to put some more layers of composite with high temperature resin on the brake surface to make the wheels last longer ?
It is a bit more complex than that, fibre angle also plays a part as well as a bunch of other factors.
What kind of braking would create those hot conditions for the resin to get soft? I know it depends on a lot of things but do i need to think about really hard braking during descending in the mountains, slow braking over longer periods (also during descending e.g.) or can it also happen when your in an easy group ride on level terrain?
Typically descending, but also "hot dog" criterium circuits, situations where the braking energy is high and the cooling time is low.
If the spokes are bonded how could be replaceable in case of a broken one?
There is a guy in Spain who repairs broken spokes for LW wheels. I have used him myself!
I didn't know they "soldered" de spokes like an old school wheelbuild!
I'm confused at 6:46 because the angle of V type rims makes it easy for the wind on a crosswind scenario to exit faster that a U shaped rim which is more like perpendicular acting like a wall. I have both rims (50mm) and use them interchangeably and swear I can tell the difference. Is there any real life studies that proves them otherwise apart from just wind tunnel? great video BTW.
Don O the sharp V type shape will stall more quickly than a rounded trailing edge, causing low pressure 'bubbles' on the leeward side, giving the stalled environment instability. The rounded U shape stalls at higher angles of attack, and stalls with less and smaller low pressure zones behind it.
Plz do the same with The winspace hyper wheels
Half wheeler! 😀
HALF OFF SALE! GREAT DEALS!!!
how do they true them when they are made?
they never need to be trued.... also if you break a spoke then the wheel can be a bin job! mind you lightweight do a crash replacement of 30% off the cost of a new wheel if required...
There is no way they can be as true as a wheel with spokes and nipples. I have seen Mad Fiber wheels which are the same full set carbon structure and they were wobbly as hell.
Mad Fiber had lots of quality control issues before they went bust, not sure it's the same construction method.
Ryan De Silva i know that. what I'm asking is how are the wheels trued and spokes pre tensioned when they are bonded. it's a very interesting procedure. obviously the spokes do need to be tensioned as in use if they were at 0 Newtons half of the spokes would go in to compression/buckling!
Not sure how it's done, but one way full carbon wheels are done is this:
The spokes are all made the same length and attached to the rim and hub flanges. Then they are put under tension as the flanges are pulled apart and set at the ends of the hub shell. This puts everything under perfectly even tension. There is not way to true them.
pls cut up some small companies like berk composites or schmolke.
it would be nice to see how theyr love to the details is
Just a question. Which one is more reliable? Lightweight tubulars or ZIPP tubulars?
Good question, aside from impacts and brake wear probably the Lightweights.
@@LuescherTeknik thanks mate. I have zipp 808 right now in my tt bike and is planning to buy 404 or lightweight for my RB. I was really confused about the decision that i will make but now you made it clear based on your experience. Thanks man. Looking forward on Lightweights now.
why would the grooves run parallel to the torque? they grooves should be perpendicular to the torque.
What's the function of foam core inside the rim? Is it here for structural integrity?
To support the thin carbon skins to stop them buckling.
Do you have any American Classic wheels to chop up?
Not as yet. If anyone has one to send in I can do it though.
These wheels are engineering masterpieces, but they have very specific use, climbing (however, in headwind, or no wind, with nicely matching tires may be fairly aero as well, but i'd rather use more robust design on flat). Probably, as steeper the climp, the more they shine. The company have 20-30 years of experience with carbon, in car racing, where life can depend on product quality. That's what you can see: well and very specific design, excellent production quality. You don't pay marketing price, engineering, build quality and quality control price instead.
For the channel:
I think we dearly missing the importance of reasoning these days, such a joyful experience!
Wonderful work as usual! Your camera must be pretty hardcore. What is it? I want to get a better camera for TH-cam now...
Thanks. The stills are with a DSLR with Macro lens.
Great review! Before I drop 4500 usd on a pair ✅
I would like to see the actual cuts being made
It is a bit hard to cut and video at the same time ;) In GPLama's video he fillmed me cutting stuff.
Luescher Teknik seeing your cut up of the emonda sl6 swayed me to pick up one. great vids keep it up. any plans to cut up the new bontrager pro wheels
What happens when these wheels go out of true? Or is that even possible?
Thanks!
They NEVER go out of true.
Genius! 👍
Hope the disc version is better
If you get the chance can you cut up a Mad Fibre wheel! If you get a beyond repair one in
Apparently the best wheels for braking out there according to the company which I emailed once,they said the wheels were being used in cyclo x with no issues! Unless anyone else has experienced otherwise?
I have had quite a few of these come in, but the owners always wanted them back for the unique look they had. The clincher had an alu extrusion bonded to the carbon side skins, they used to disbond at that join.
Don't know why deeper rims are not available in alloy would not be that huge a weight difference and anyway i would not mind that versus Carbon,alloy can be super thin and strong like we know! Maybe even a titanium wheel?
Aluminium just doesn't have the stiffness for large unsupported areas. Titanium is difficult to draw into the shape and is not ideal for a number of other reasons, Araya did a Ti rim many many years ago as a trial.
A friend of mine got one of these. Came brandnew with slack in the bearings and running out of true. Overpriced junk, in my opinion.
and a lot of people think disc breaks on road bikes are a scam... carbon is the real scam. making overweight middle aged white men take out a mortgage... atleast carbon parts like wheels. frames and forks are becoming more affordable and they before great. but for now. steel and disc breaks for me.
Carbon fiber are ideal for light people (for less stress on bike), and for well experienced cyclist for ultmate small improvement. I weight 58Kg in 1,75m of height and full carbon fibre road bike never give me a problem (Bianchi Xl 2005).
A new novist big guy need a cheap high weight for more fatigue, for decrease the weight himself.
It is useless to take long step from beginning... So, carbon fibre aren't a scam, but for specific cyclist.
Good review...I’m not getting these.
Just imagine cheap carbon. This type of wheel is not for the timid or turn-key operator who just wants to jump on and ride, they must be cleaned before and after each ride in order to maintain them properly.
Surgical!!
Lightweight Junk! Waste of Money, 3 times the price of a high end carbon wheel set! One can buy a Dt Swiss high carbon wheel set for one third the price Lightweight paper carbon wheels, plus Dt will last 1000 times longer than Lightweight paper trash wheels!
Riding mine since 12 years. No problems so far.
Cutting a 2k wheel??? 😭
Cutting a wheel sent in for inspection and found to be damaged beyond repair. These are all unusable parts.
they could easily do the u shape by filling the gap it would make, the harder part is making a mold. i dont think ppl should have a to pay a premium for a design thats dated and proven to be not as good in the real world
kevlar makes it weaker
big trade off for weight.. they seem pretty terrible really
You may find this interesting just a short video of just one pair of carbons I have cooked!
th-cam.com/video/PEhrJeUodww/w-d-xo.html
U could not pay me to use these.
Yes I could.
I certainly wouldnt ride them...
Everything that's unreliable is shit no matter how light or stiff- these wheels are well engineered for lightness and stifness, but the reliability make them useless- no wonder pro teams aren't using them. Another company that were making similar type of expensive wheelsets were Madfiber- and they went bankrupt.
Life presenter about the madfiber, that’s why they charge so much!
Team Ineos road them in all the difficult mountain stages in the 2020 TDF. Interestingly enough, Ineos is one of the only GC teams that decided against riding disc rotors.
Overall, I would say it is a specific wheel for racing only but other training will a daily rider definitely not will too expensive and pretty much non-repairable being practical I would have to give this will👎🏿 thumbs down
First
Scam product. Unless you are a pro being paid these wheels are a joke.
These wheels and their logos look so cheap😅
#1 - please change your channel name... #2 do 'normal people' review... (IE - people without six figure incomes)
His channel name is his business name... So absolutely no need for Raoul to change his channel name. Raoul does technical reviews...ie: the technology & materials used in the bike industry, specifically carbon fiber...If you want bike reviews there are dozens of publication and channels who do that ( for what little they are usually worth) This channel is outstanding....you are obviously in the wrong place...but view his work, you may learn something.
Brandon Green Why should he change his name? As for reviewing cheaper frames and wheels, he probably doesn't get many in since they're not worth the cost to repair? Would be interesting if he could get his hands on a few, but I'm not complaining.