Justin outdoors has noted inconsistency with nemo extreme. Suspicions are that the mylar films can stick together eliminating the air gaps. The diagram of how its constructed makes a lot of sense as to how that could happen. The xtherm construction makes it so that the mylar cannot stick together. In extreme conditions, I don't want to have to wonder if the mylar films have frozen or stuck together. Not to mention nemo uses a 20 d nylon and xtherm used a 70 d on bottom.
I agree with you my Xtherm is tested & proven where I’m up the air with the Nemo it’ll take a few versions of that & field tested by many before I’d trust it
Goose feet gear make covers that go over your down socks. While they don't turn your socks into a boot they are really light and add protection to the Sole area, perfect to wear around a snowy camp or to slip over your booties for a quick nature call in the middle of the night.
Yesterday I bought a roll of Reflectix insulation at Home Depot, size 24 in. wide x 10ft long, for $10.00. I plan to cut the length down to 72" to match my pad, then use the leftover to make a cozy for my coffee cup. I also plan to dab both sides of the sheet with tent sealant to prevent it from sliding on the tent floor, and prevent my pad from sliding off of it. I use a quilt, so I will also use the strap to wrap the reflectix to my pad.
So true! I recently returned from Mt. Sterling in Smoky Mountains National Park. It was around zero degrees. I had my NEMO sleeping pad with R Value and slept comfortable in my -10 degree mummy all night!
I have the Sonic 0 and it's a great bag. My only gripe is because of its roomy shape, there is an additional cold dead space near my thighs and knees that needs to be warmed up. It doesn't happen all the time but it just took a little longer to get that full warmth. Once it did, I was solid for the rest of the night.
I was in a tent during the recent Artic Blast that came thru - Temps in single digits. I was in a woman's Nemo 15-degree bag, which, due to the vent system, is NOT recommended because the down is reduced in the chest area. I will be replacing it. I used an Outdoor Vitals air mattress, which worked but will upgrade to an ExPed mattress. In watching Matti & Stina outdoor guides and dog sled adventures in Northern Sweden - they give excellent advice on extreme weather camping. I learned from them NOT to inflate the air mattress with 'breath' as this will cause moisture to enter into the air mattress, which will then freeze - could be the cause of the membrane fusing together in that other mattress. Anyway, having proper gear and knowing its limitations is critical in harsh weather conditions. That's the main reason I'm not an ultralight backpacker. Anyone can camp or hike in perfect conditions. I doubt that when weather goes from bad to worse, any backpacker chimes in with 'yeah, but it only weighs a pound' as they are hammered with the elements. Safe travels to all
Don't forget you can always add a quilt over a sleeping bag. Generally, this is better as it reduces draft and the dead air between the bag and quilt add some more R too. You just have to weigh the weight/cost of the options. Consider this is more versatile too, and means your bag can be used more often for different temps this way.
Like you say winter conditions call for a completely different mentality than the otherwise ultralight backpacker. For your experience with the Nemo 15, any bags rated to 15 F will feel cold and insufficient if it's below 10 F, especially as the 15 is usually the comfort rating. So anything below 30 F and you'll typically feel cold no matter what.
@@eric_hanson Absolutely. Ideally, you want a bag (or bag/quilt combo) that will provide at least an extra 10F EN comfort rating below what you expect to camp in, for those unpredictable dips too.
Thank you, I appreciate the tips as well as the fact that you first took your gear out for a test with an exit plan available should you need it. That you spoke honestly about your experiences as well as the gear. Again, safe travels to all.
I can't say I bother much with a snow shovel, and don't generally dig out the camp site as it is too time and energy consuming (other than sometimes digging out the vestibule), as my tunnel tent has plenty of space inside the vestibule for cooking and relaxing, even in the middle of a blizzard in northern Canada. (I use a Hilleberg Nammatj 2 GT). All I do is pack down the snow where the tent will go with my skis/snowshoes, and then sink the snow pegs down a foot or two into the snow deadman style, which is plenty when fully pegged and guyed out for 60mph winds. Generally with snow pegs, the longer the better (The ones I use are 12" to 20" long), just attach to them in the middle of the peg.
I was looking for a winter bag the past couple months, and looked at the nemos a ton, because they were on sale for way cheap, but after reading a ton of reviews talking about cold spots on the nemos, I ended up with a much more expensive, western mountaineering puma. Previously I'd been using a 30 year old marmot rated for -30f that was awesome, but was always too short and has lost some down to a couple tears over the years. My new western mountaineering puma has insane loft, but with a compression sack gets reasonably smallish.
I have a 6 y/o Sonic 0F that I was very underwhelmed with at first, but using it on my Xtherm instead of my Exped DownMat 9 LW I was so much warmer. Going by how warm I was in 17F temps wearing merino baselayers and socks I’d say I should be warm down to around 10F in it. With down jacket, pants, and booties, 0F should be comfy. But I do have a Feathered Friends 0F Ibis that I’d bring if temps approached 0F.
@@lifson22I’ve talked with people who have the newer version (Dura 8R, I think?) and they said not to store it fully deflated, but rather with just a little air left in it. This makes it easier to feel where the down has migrated, and to just push it back so it’s even. The new versions are translucent so you can see the down distribution by holding it up to a light. Mine is completely opaque so I had to do it by feel but I think I did a good job. I plan on testing it out in the yard sometime, so if I get cold I can just bail to the bedroom LOL
@@philsmith2444 that's super helpful info, thank you. It is the dura 8R but I don't think it's translucent. I'll have to check again. Got it last week, on sale for like 120. Probably means it was the older model.
Thanks for the info! I have reason to be camping in ND winters, ( it's nice to have my own space and not be underfoot when I visit) this is where 2 of my grandsons live. So I've been researching EXTREME gear, & it's nice to get input from someone who I feel is being real about the merchandise not just earning the perks. Can't wait to see more.
That side entry seems like a game changer. Looking forward to seeing the review!! I have the bags: Mystery Ranch - Bridger 55L Backpack, UltraWeave™ 40L Curve Full Suspension Custom Backpack, and the CS40 ULTRA BACKPACK by Outdoor Vitals on my list for a first backpacking investment for my husband and I. I know I cannot handle too much weight so I am trying to go as light as I can afford to comfort-wise and financially out of necessity lol
That makes total sense! Bridger is the most comfortable and carry by far the heaviest loads. But if you're only trying to carry sub 25-30 lbs I'd go Radix (side entry is awesome), and sub 25 lbs I'd go CS40.
Thanks for the solid detail on your gear choices. You give the most consistent "why" answers in your review and i really appreciate that. I'm going to pro-deal the Nemo Extreme in a week to test more that we have snow in the Oregon Cascades, I hope to experience warmth you described.
I’m gonna keep an eye out for that puffy jacket for sure. As I watched the video of your trip, I couldn’t help but think that it was probably amazingly warm. And in THIS video, you’re confirming it.
Living in Texas, I hate winter camping but not for the reasons one might think. It’s because the weather can fluctuate so widely in any day. A day might start out freezing and be in the low 90°’s in the afternoon. Storms come out of nowhere and weather forecasts are seldom correct. This forces me to carry more gear than I need in other places because weather is just so unpredictable.
Thanks Eric. In some of your summer backpacking videos you talk about the need to setup and test equipment at home before using it. I think that goes double for winter gear. A lot to be learned from sleeping in a tent on your balcony (if you can put up with the sarcastic comments from friends, family, neighbours. . .)
haha yes! The consequences for gear failures go up a lot in the winter! It's always a great plan to make sure you can trust your gear before it truly matters.
I like to bring a thermarest zlite to backup my air mattress also very handy when doing camp tasks to keep knees warm or to pop out and use as a sit mat...Nemo witchcraft 😆 🤣 😂
Concerning stove fuel: you can use regular small propane tanks with your isobutane stove. You just need to buy an inexpensive adaptor. It burns the exact same. The propane tanks are cheaper and good to much lower temperatures. The disadvantage is the bigger and heavier steel tanks.
@@eric_hanson ...NEMO has multiple pads ... from what I've seen , most of the complaints of being cold is mis information of the original lightweight pad ... (yellow) . It's rated at 2.5 .. in sub freezing temps is going to be a poor sleep ..... I have a NEMO Alpine which is rated at 4.8 (orange) and not had a bad night ,, but not out in sub zero temps without a hot tent .... since my purchase they have an Insulated version rated at 5.4 (grey)and Now a New version called the Extreme at 8.5 .. (black) I think there's just too much confusion for some to get it straight ...
The USA made Mystery Ranch packs are literally almost bomb proof. They can carry 100 pounds of gear...but cost a fortune and weigh 10 pounds empty. I have two smaller packs by them, both made in Vietnam. Excellent quality and much more affordable. If Yeti bought them they'll switch production to China, which doesn't mean they'll be sh*t but it's definitely the end of an era.
Eric, have you used a hot tent for backpacking? Something like a TI stove from seek outside or the such? Given the weight being about the same or less using a stove, I’m curious why this system isn’t more popular…
Love the detailed gear review. How much warmth do you think the reflectix added to the sleeping pad? It'd have been interesting to see how the pad performed without the reflectix. Also curious, how the bag you used compares to something like a Western Mountaineering bag ... are they similar in quality/warmth?
I actually only put the reflectix under my pad from the knees down and created a little spillover space for stuff around my feet. I didn't want it to alter my test too much. But I think the reflectix adds about 1R under a sleeping pad. It's much more effective when it has an air gap, such as in a wall. But for backpacking purposes 1 R aint bad.
@@eric_hanson definitely not - every little bit helps! I really like the foam pads ... especially in cold weather! I've got the Nemo Switchback and the GG Thinlight - both super simple and particularly useful around camp! Happy trails!
Not trying to bad mouth Nemo bags as I haven't tried it, but WM bags are the gold standard especially in the winter. The loft on their bags are insane. Their zippers are some of the best in the industry especially when it comes to zipping with gloves on during the winter and they almost never snag because of the way the material is taped around the zippers. Also, they claim 900+FP for their down because the lowest quality down they use is 900, so they actually use down that can go above it. I have a bristlecone and so far, im sweating in it in about -10c (14f) weather. In all the reviews I've read for their bags, they can last for upwards of well over a decade if properly taken care of. If you have a chance, check out their bags, its a game changer.
@@aark89 never used the Nemo bags but I’ll definitely agree that the WM bags are the highest rated for a reason! I just picked up the Antelope at the end of last year. I hadn’t gotten to use it yet - but just testing it at home has me excited to try it out on trips! I’d invested in a Feathered Friends bag before and that bag was complete disappointment as was their customer service! Typically I just use my 30deg REI Magma bag - which has worked surprisingly well! 😊
I use regular battery lighting in winter because all other rechargeable stuff gives me problems in the cold, I guess this headlamp does well fir you? I like your channel, personality, style , knowledge and you go out and actually do.
Primary cells ("regular batteries") are just better for the cold. Not only can they give more current, but rechargeable cells are damaged by very low temperatures. Lithium primaries are the best for low temperatures. The best solution is a light that can take both primaries and rechargeables - including higher voltage rechargeables. For example, thrunite has some headlamps that can take either a regular AA primary cell (best for the cold) OR a rechargeable NiMH AA (longest runtimes) OR rechargeable 14500 lithium 3.7 V cells (lightest and brightest)
Is your Nemo Extreme mattress super hard to get back into the stuff sack like mine is? lol. Thanks for the video! I'm thinking I'm going to try the reflectix water bottle sleeve as well!
Wow I like the entry of that backpack. Opens up just like a duffel bag. Slick. There's no need to carry a shovel. Luke likes to build snow caves and trenches on his channel but it's for creating content and makes for fun videos. He's into bushcraft. You really only need to trample down the snow with your snow shoes and pitch your tent right on top. Just let the snow set for 20 mins in temps like you were in and it crust right over and be nice and hard. You can keep the stakes at home too. Your heavy winter gear will weigh your tent down. Unless your mountaineering, you don't need to lock your tent down to the ground. I never have. If you were not concerned with making content (it would still have made good content, but you wouldn't have had the shoveling snow wall scene), the best place for you to pitch your tent, would have been up that hill within the trees. Natures wind wall are the trees. I ALWAYS pitch winter camp among the trees. Never out in the open.
It sounds like you have a different style than me, that's cool! It's true I wanted to be out in the open to have better views, for TH-cam yes, but also because I wanted to actually see the mountains and not just a cluster of trees. Being in the trees is certainly more protected. But I also wanted to gain experience building things with snow so I can grow my skills. Also, those snow stakes weigh a few grams more than regular tent stakes, why would you not want good anchors? If conditions really turned I wouldn't want to count just on my gear or me weighing the tent down.
@@eric_hanson Oh yeah, no worries. They're not demands, just suggestions and sharing experience. To answer your question there; simply because I've never required them and all weight adds up. There are no weight options too, like simply burring sticks and or snow bags in the ground....but I've never required those either. I think I'm packing a whole lot heavier than you are too and if you saw the weight in my tent, you'd probably agree, it's not blowing away on me. :D Sorry, if anything I said, you thought I was implying was "wrong". There's no wrong way to have fun. As long as we come back with all our fingers and toes. :D It's only "wrong" when we sit around watching tv, doing nothing instead of getting out there, right? ;)
Building that snow wall and pitching the tent below the surface wind probably raised the effective temperature by around 10F. Wind chill is real. The whole experience can be drastically improved when you have the ability to get a bit more protection from the elements. Had he been sitting on the flat ground at surface level, his cooking and eating experience would have been vastly different and likely worse. Also, pitching under trees in heavy snow is not generally recommended by the safety conscious, as even large branches with snow load can break, or even just drop large amounts of snow, and while not inherently dangerous, can flatten a tent. Also, lots of tents require stakes in order to be fully taut, which is beneficial for snow load, and also for keeping the inevitably iced of walls of the interior from touching you or your sleep gear.
@@lifson22 Valid points. I wouldn't pitch "under" a snow loaded tree either. (that would be pretty hard fitting under one of those evergreens). Let us also not forget, all the great exercise involved in the digging process. Just because I wouldn't do it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. I liked watching him do it, just like I do Luke at the outdoor boys channel. Loads of fun to watch. Just because I don't do it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. I stated it didn't "have to" be done, that's all. I brought it up, because in this video, he did say you "needed" a shovel. I'm just ALSO sharing, that there are different ways. I've never "needed" one and I've never "needed" tent pegs. This doesn't mean it wouldn't be NICER to ensure the tent was staying outward in all it's corners. If I desired that myself, I would use strings and sticks burring in the snow instead of lugging pegs. That doesn't mean it's "wrong" for someone to carry them. You know, it's like the old saying, there's more than one way to skin a cat, that's all. I'm not suggesting anything one does, is wrong. I'm feeling very misunderstood lol. I'm sharing. Not demanding.
Anyone that uses an air mattress knows they will eventually leak. Having issues with one in sub zero weather could be disastrous not just uncomfortable. Still, the new Nemo looks awesome and I'll have to get one.
Copying this from another answer. I at least don't think it will be bad for the brand. I think if anything it will help Mystery Ranch have more powerful marketing. I don't think the packs or the prices will change for the next year or two, but after that, who knows. I'm curious too!
I think 3 pounds is the sweet spot for packs. You can carry weight comfortably but still have a lighter pack. Less than 3 pounds you basically get a bag that can’t handle the weight for long food carries or winter gear.
With a true ASTM 8.5R there should have been 0.0% "creep" of cold at just -5F. In fact, there should be no creep at -50F or even lower with a pad rated THAT extreme. I have a thermorest mondoking with 7R and there is no cold creep whatsoever in such temps or lower. So I'd question that pads rating. I'm not sure but 7R might be good for even lower then -50F but for sure 8.5R would be good in anything known to man if it were truly rated using ASTM standards. I'm a big guy, so I need at LEAST a 30" wide pad and at LEAST 3" thick. Being over 6' means I need the long, usually "extra long" offering too. I'm stuck with car camping pads for winter hikes. It SUCKS but there are no true backpacking offerings for us XL guys yet. Hence, the mondoking...... but I sleep WARM anywhere with no concern in the world. Doesn't matter how cold it gets. I'll never feel the ground. I don't think you're using a real 8.5R pad by your description. If you felt anything at all in -5, My guess is, it's probably only a "real" 5R MAYBE 5.5R (being optimistic) ASTM. I can assure you, this is not to be expected, as you describe with a true R rated pad of 7R or better. 6R in fact, should have laughed at -5F. You should have felt super warm all night on a real 8.5R even down to literally -60F. 8.5R is HARDCORE (no one but those in northern Canada, Antarctica and Alaska would ever need one). I've never heard of a pad claiming this yet.
I question your premise that there should be no cold creep until lower than -50F. And it would be wrong to characterize what happened to me as feeling cold. I was toasty warm. I just became aware that it was very cold out in the early hours of the morning, hence the creep. But I was perfectly content and sleeping well. If you're a big guy that sleeps warm, you probably have different framework than me for how to interpret warmth ratings of mattresses and sleeping bags. And that's okay!
Reflectix is most useful when there is an air gap, like putting it under the floor of my van. I think it does add R value to a sleeping mat, but not dramatically so. I'd guess it adds around 1 R.
Can we all just agree that the Nemo Tensor is the most overrated sleeping pad out there? Its the only pad I’ve ever had to RETURN because of how bad my back felt and how quickly my arm went numb
I think it's too quick to say it's an overrated mattress. That's a bummer you didn't enjoy it, especially for such an expensive mattress. But I genuinely was warm and comfortable on it and was impressed with it. I will be more testing in before I come to true conclusions.
I have watched many reviews on the Tensor extreme and they are always inconsistent. Some say it’s plenty warm and others stay it’s not nearly as warm as the r-value suggests. Every review I have seen on the x-therm says it’s the warmest pad they have used. I’m have the xtherm and I find it incredibly warm. It’s a little noisy but for winter I’ll take warm over quite every time.
What do you use for a water filter when in the snow since many become inoperable after freezing temperatures? Or do you just boil snow instead of filtering any water?
For camping like this, for sure just melt snow. There's no access to running water anyway. If I'm backpacking in freezing temperatures but everything isn't buried under 3 feet of snow, I'd use the Grayl or MSR Guardian as those are more freeze resistant.
Just so there’s at least one comment not about the NEMO Tensor Extreme, why do you still make so much extra work for yourself using those tiny MSR Lightning Ascents in conditions they’re not intended for? You appeared to be sinking about knee-deep, you should really use snowshoes sized for your weight and the snow conditions. Get yourself some Tubbs Mountaineer 36, Garneau Blizzard III 1036, or GV Wide Trail 1138 or 1242 (no heel lifters on these and crampons are less-aggressive aluminum.) With my 50lb winter pack I’m 310lb and on any kind of snow more substantial than dandelion fluff my 1242 GVs keep me from sinking more than 4-5”. Today I was out in 2 feet plus of mildly consolidated snow with 3-4” of powder on top, at about 280lb total weight, and my Mountaineer 36s kept me near the top of the snow except for a few times when I unknowingly stepped right on a buried evergreen. Use the right tool for the job! EDIT - I have a pair of Atlas Range MTN 35s that I’ve used a few times this year and was pretty impressed with their flotation with what I was carrying. They’re the same size as Lightning Ascent 30s w/tails, but don’t suffer from the nose-low attitude that MSRs do with that extra surface area in back. Traction is excellent, the BOA binding is very secure and doesn’t allow unwanted foot movement but the foot opening is on the small side. Uninsulated hiking boots with OR Crocodiles take a little doing to get in there, and you have to guide the straps as you tighten the dial.
I did! Wild news. It's too early to tell. I at least don't think it will be bad for the brand. I think if anything it will help Mystery Ranch have more powerful marketing. I don't think the packs or the prices will change for the next year or two, but after that, who knows.
I'm really curious to see how things will change, if at all. I hope it helps boost a relatively small company with extra marketing power and retail reach. It's too early to tell what'll happen though.
@@eric_hanson yeah these acquisitions always make me nervous. Mystery Ranch has a fantastic reputation for making quality gear so I hope they can elevate that even more
Miss you on Backpacking TV but liking your new channel. Seriously thinking about unsubscribing from Backpacking TV, I've tried but I can't take the new host seriously.
Are you comparing the weight of the narrow mummy shaped NXT (16 ounces) to the Nemo wide with inflation sack (25 ounces)? The mummy shaped Nemo Extreme is 18 ounces.
@eric_hanson your comparing my 77x25 to a 72x20 and still packed weight is 1/4lb more for nemo, nemo 76x25 is 10oz heavier. didn't think I had to point out so much especially to a pro sponsored guy. Almost everyone doesn't camp, less backpack and those who do aren't prone to do so in artic conditions so...
its not that expensive if you use a hot tent you even have "name brand" headlamps, bro LEDs are not complicated anymore. LIterally any $7 headlamp will work the same
Justin outdoors has noted inconsistency with nemo extreme. Suspicions are that the mylar films can stick together eliminating the air gaps. The diagram of how its constructed makes a lot of sense as to how that could happen. The xtherm construction makes it so that the mylar cannot stick together. In extreme conditions, I don't want to have to wonder if the mylar films have frozen or stuck together. Not to mention nemo uses a 20 d nylon and xtherm used a 70 d on bottom.
I saw that one too. For the amount of money, I should think it would a little more reliable.
I agree with you my Xtherm is tested & proven where I’m up the air with the Nemo it’ll take a few versions of that & field tested by many before I’d trust it
Ya it’s definitely making me start regret my decision buying the Nemo Extreme… 😬😅
But remember, he was in a far colder environment.
@@mr.wallace1074 8.5R should be more than good in ANY temp on earth. I don't think most folks understand what kind of claim that is.
Goose feet gear make covers that go over your down socks. While they don't turn your socks into a boot they are really light and add protection to the Sole area, perfect to wear around a snowy camp or to slip over your booties for a quick nature call in the middle of the night.
Yesterday I bought a roll of Reflectix insulation at Home Depot, size 24 in. wide x 10ft long, for $10.00. I plan to cut the length down to 72" to match my pad, then use the leftover to make a cozy for my coffee cup. I also plan to dab both sides of the sheet with tent sealant to prevent it from sliding on the tent floor, and prevent my pad from sliding off of it. I use a quilt, so I will also use the strap to wrap the reflectix to my pad.
So true! I recently returned from Mt. Sterling in Smoky Mountains National Park. It was around zero degrees. I had my NEMO sleeping pad with R Value and slept comfortable in my -10 degree mummy all night!
I'm sorry but it's no one else distracted by the hair?! A perm? Hot rollers? Either way, it's great. Hair envy!
I have the Sonic 0 and it's a great bag. My only gripe is because of its roomy shape, there is an additional cold dead space near my thighs and knees that needs to be warmed up. It doesn't happen all the time but it just took a little longer to get that full warmth. Once it did, I was solid for the rest of the night.
I was in a tent during the recent Artic Blast that came thru - Temps in single digits.
I was in a woman's Nemo 15-degree bag, which, due to the vent system, is NOT recommended because the down is reduced in the chest area. I will be replacing it.
I used an Outdoor Vitals air mattress, which worked but will upgrade to an ExPed mattress.
In watching Matti & Stina outdoor guides and dog sled adventures in Northern Sweden - they give excellent advice on extreme weather camping.
I learned from them NOT to inflate the air mattress with 'breath' as this will cause moisture to enter into the air mattress, which will then freeze - could be the cause of the membrane fusing together in that other mattress.
Anyway, having proper gear and knowing its limitations is critical in harsh weather conditions. That's the main reason I'm not an ultralight backpacker. Anyone can camp or hike in perfect conditions. I doubt that when weather goes from bad to worse, any backpacker chimes in with 'yeah, but it only weighs a pound' as they are hammered with the elements.
Safe travels to all
Don't forget you can always add a quilt over a sleeping bag. Generally, this is better as it reduces draft and the dead air between the bag and quilt add some more R too. You just have to weigh the weight/cost of the options. Consider this is more versatile too, and means your bag can be used more often for different temps this way.
Like you say winter conditions call for a completely different mentality than the otherwise ultralight backpacker. For your experience with the Nemo 15, any bags rated to 15 F will feel cold and insufficient if it's below 10 F, especially as the 15 is usually the comfort rating. So anything below 30 F and you'll typically feel cold no matter what.
@@eric_hanson Absolutely. Ideally, you want a bag (or bag/quilt combo) that will provide at least an extra 10F EN comfort rating below what you expect to camp in, for those unpredictable dips too.
Thank you, I appreciate the tips as well as the fact that you first took your gear out for a test with an exit plan available should you need it. That you spoke honestly about your experiences as well as the gear.
Again, safe travels to all.
I can't say I bother much with a snow shovel, and don't generally dig out the camp site as it is too time and energy consuming (other than sometimes digging out the vestibule), as my tunnel tent has plenty of space inside the vestibule for cooking and relaxing, even in the middle of a blizzard in northern Canada. (I use a Hilleberg Nammatj 2 GT). All I do is pack down the snow where the tent will go with my skis/snowshoes, and then sink the snow pegs down a foot or two into the snow deadman style, which is plenty when fully pegged and guyed out for 60mph winds. Generally with snow pegs, the longer the better (The ones I use are 12" to 20" long), just attach to them in the middle of the peg.
I love the color on the jacket
I was looking for a winter bag the past couple months, and looked at the nemos a ton, because they were on sale for way cheap, but after reading a ton of reviews talking about cold spots on the nemos, I ended up with a much more expensive, western mountaineering puma. Previously I'd been using a 30 year old marmot rated for -30f that was awesome, but was always too short and has lost some down to a couple tears over the years. My new western mountaineering puma has insane loft, but with a compression sack gets reasonably smallish.
I have a 6 y/o Sonic 0F that I was very underwhelmed with at first, but using it on my Xtherm instead of my Exped DownMat 9 LW I was so much warmer. Going by how warm I was in 17F temps wearing merino baselayers and socks I’d say I should be warm down to around 10F in it. With down jacket, pants, and booties, 0F should be comfy. But I do have a Feathered Friends 0F Ibis that I’d bring if temps approached 0F.
@@philsmith2444 I just bought an exped downmat, haven't used it yet. Your comment has me concerned...
@@lifson22I’ve talked with people who have the newer version (Dura 8R, I think?) and they said not to store it fully deflated, but rather with just a little air left in it. This makes it easier to feel where the down has migrated, and to just push it back so it’s even. The new versions are translucent so you can see the down distribution by holding it up to a light. Mine is completely opaque so I had to do it by feel but I think I did a good job. I plan on testing it out in the yard sometime, so if I get cold I can just bail to the bedroom LOL
@@philsmith2444 that's super helpful info, thank you. It is the dura 8R but I don't think it's translucent. I'll have to check again. Got it last week, on sale for like 120. Probably means it was the older model.
I know I wasn't the only one who thought we were going to see an Outdoor Boys collab after the last video!
Thanks for the info! I have reason to be camping in ND winters, ( it's nice to have my own space and not be underfoot when I visit) this is where 2 of my grandsons live. So I've been researching EXTREME gear, & it's nice to get input from someone who I feel is being real about the merchandise not just earning the perks. Can't wait to see more.
You can make a cozy for your food package as well. It stays warm as it rehydrates and you get to eat your food warm. :))) More DIY projects ;)))
I love these gear videos and thank you Eric for active communication with your audience. You have been really good with answering questions 🙏🏻
That's something I strive for! Glad to hear it.
In the winter, I'd suggest using a white gas stove. Butane/propane won't burn well in the cold
That side entry seems like a game changer. Looking forward to seeing the review!! I have the bags: Mystery Ranch - Bridger 55L Backpack, UltraWeave™ 40L Curve Full Suspension Custom Backpack, and the CS40 ULTRA BACKPACK by Outdoor Vitals on my list for a first backpacking investment for my husband and I. I know I cannot handle too much weight so I am trying to go as light as I can afford to comfort-wise and financially out of necessity lol
That makes total sense! Bridger is the most comfortable and carry by far the heaviest loads. But if you're only trying to carry sub 25-30 lbs I'd go Radix (side entry is awesome), and sub 25 lbs I'd go CS40.
Thanks for the solid detail on your gear choices. You give the most consistent "why" answers in your review and i really appreciate that. I'm going to pro-deal the Nemo Extreme in a week to test more that we have snow in the Oregon Cascades, I hope to experience warmth you described.
Running the xmid 2p without the mesh inner seems like a decent option your should try next time
Wow, thanks! I'm prepping for a winter trip right now and this was timely information. Cheers!
I’m gonna keep an eye out for that puffy jacket for sure. As I watched the video of your trip, I couldn’t help but think that it was probably amazingly warm. And in THIS video, you’re confirming it.
I really wish I could find the exact model of this jacket because it's my favorite of all time! It's incredibly warm.
Living in Texas, I hate winter camping but not for the reasons one might think. It’s because the weather can fluctuate so widely in any day. A day might start out freezing and be in the low 90°’s in the afternoon. Storms come out of nowhere and weather forecasts are seldom correct.
This forces me to carry more gear than I need in other places because weather is just so unpredictable.
Thanks Eric. In some of your summer backpacking videos you talk about the need to setup and test equipment at home before using it. I think that goes double for winter gear. A lot to be learned from sleeping in a tent on your balcony (if you can put up with the sarcastic comments from friends, family, neighbours. . .)
haha yes! The consequences for gear failures go up a lot in the winter! It's always a great plan to make sure you can trust your gear before it truly matters.
Great video. There’s a recent recall on handle of your MSR pot.
Moisture management at lower altitudes atmospheric pressure along with temperatures much warmer than -60f can be challenging.
I like to bring a thermarest zlite to backup my air mattress also very handy when doing camp tasks to keep knees warm or to pop out and use as a sit mat...Nemo witchcraft 😆 🤣 😂
Concerning stove fuel: you can use regular small propane tanks with your isobutane stove. You just need to buy an inexpensive adaptor. It burns the exact same.
The propane tanks are cheaper and good to much lower temperatures. The disadvantage is the bigger and heavier steel tanks.
I got the pad on sale a couple months back sight unseen only on r value. I've been so happy with it during my nights out in the tent this winter.
Glad to hear it! Seems like people are poo pooing the pad but I was really pleased with it.
@@eric_hanson ...NEMO has multiple pads ... from what I've seen , most of the complaints of being cold is mis information of the original lightweight pad ... (yellow) . It's rated at 2.5 .. in sub freezing temps is going to be a poor sleep ..... I have a NEMO Alpine which is rated at 4.8 (orange) and not had a bad night ,, but not out in sub zero temps without a hot tent .... since my purchase they have an Insulated version rated at 5.4 (grey)and Now a New version called the Extreme at 8.5 .. (black) I think there's just too much confusion for some to get it straight ...
Love your vids and finally got my Bridger 55
Good vid. When you put it on the line you need the best you can get.
😂😂 That Ken insert though!
The USA made Mystery Ranch packs are literally almost bomb proof. They can carry 100 pounds of gear...but cost a fortune and weigh 10 pounds empty. I have two smaller packs by them, both made in Vietnam. Excellent quality and much more affordable. If Yeti bought them they'll switch production to China, which doesn't mean they'll be sh*t but it's definitely the end of an era.
going to be testing out my new nemo in two weeks, only going down to 20F. so excited.
Great! Enjoy it out there!
Eric, have you used a hot tent for backpacking? Something like a TI stove from seek outside or the such?
Given the weight being about the same or less using a stove, I’m curious why this system isn’t more popular…
His buddy Dan Becker is going to Colorado again,I hope Eric goes with him,they go good together.nice info Eric
I read earlier this month that Yeti bought out Mystery Ranch. I wonder how that might affect their products in the future.
Love the detailed gear review. How much warmth do you think the reflectix added to the sleeping pad? It'd have been interesting to see how the pad performed without the reflectix. Also curious, how the bag you used compares to something like a Western Mountaineering bag ... are they similar in quality/warmth?
I actually only put the reflectix under my pad from the knees down and created a little spillover space for stuff around my feet. I didn't want it to alter my test too much. But I think the reflectix adds about 1R under a sleeping pad. It's much more effective when it has an air gap, such as in a wall. But for backpacking purposes 1 R aint bad.
@@eric_hanson definitely not - every little bit helps! I really like the foam pads ... especially in cold weather! I've got the Nemo Switchback and the GG Thinlight - both super simple and particularly useful around camp! Happy trails!
Not trying to bad mouth Nemo bags as I haven't tried it, but WM bags are the gold standard especially in the winter. The loft on their bags are insane. Their zippers are some of the best in the industry especially when it comes to zipping with gloves on during the winter and they almost never snag because of the way the material is taped around the zippers. Also, they claim 900+FP for their down because the lowest quality down they use is 900, so they actually use down that can go above it. I have a bristlecone and so far, im sweating in it in about -10c (14f) weather. In all the reviews I've read for their bags, they can last for upwards of well over a decade if properly taken care of. If you have a chance, check out their bags, its a game changer.
@@aark89 never used the Nemo bags but I’ll definitely agree that the WM bags are the highest rated for a reason! I just picked up the Antelope at the end of last year. I hadn’t gotten to use it yet - but just testing it at home has me excited to try it out on trips! I’d invested in a Feathered Friends bag before and that bag was complete disappointment as was their customer service! Typically I just use my 30deg REI Magma bag - which has worked surprisingly well! 😊
I use regular battery lighting in winter because all other rechargeable stuff gives me problems in the cold, I guess this headlamp does well fir you? I like your channel, personality, style , knowledge and you go out and actually do.
Thanks! I appreciate that.
Primary cells ("regular batteries") are just better for the cold. Not only can they give more current, but rechargeable cells are damaged by very low temperatures.
Lithium primaries are the best for low temperatures.
The best solution is a light that can take both primaries and rechargeables - including higher voltage rechargeables. For example, thrunite has some headlamps that can take either a regular AA primary cell (best for the cold) OR a rechargeable NiMH AA (longest runtimes) OR rechargeable 14500 lithium 3.7 V cells (lightest and brightest)
@@dtroy15 wow thanks all mine are cheap Home Depot lights. Your suggestion sounds like a good move
Is your Nemo Extreme mattress super hard to get back into the stuff sack like mine is? lol. Thanks for the video! I'm thinking I'm going to try the reflectix water bottle sleeve as well!
Thanks Eric great info
Glad to hear it!
Wow I like the entry of that backpack. Opens up just like a duffel bag. Slick. There's no need to carry a shovel. Luke likes to build snow caves and trenches on his channel but it's for creating content and makes for fun videos. He's into bushcraft.
You really only need to trample down the snow with your snow shoes and pitch your tent right on top. Just let the snow set for 20 mins in temps like you were in and it crust right over and be nice and hard. You can keep the stakes at home too. Your heavy winter gear will weigh your tent down.
Unless your mountaineering, you don't need to lock your tent down to the ground. I never have.
If you were not concerned with making content (it would still have made good content, but you wouldn't have had the shoveling snow wall scene), the best place for you to pitch your tent, would have been up that hill within the trees. Natures wind wall are the trees. I ALWAYS pitch winter camp among the trees. Never out in the open.
It sounds like you have a different style than me, that's cool! It's true I wanted to be out in the open to have better views, for TH-cam yes, but also because I wanted to actually see the mountains and not just a cluster of trees. Being in the trees is certainly more protected. But I also wanted to gain experience building things with snow so I can grow my skills. Also, those snow stakes weigh a few grams more than regular tent stakes, why would you not want good anchors? If conditions really turned I wouldn't want to count just on my gear or me weighing the tent down.
@@eric_hanson Oh yeah, no worries. They're not demands, just suggestions and sharing experience. To answer your question there; simply because I've never required them and all weight adds up.
There are no weight options too, like simply burring sticks and or snow bags in the ground....but I've never required those either. I think I'm packing a whole lot heavier than you are too and if you saw the weight in my tent, you'd probably agree, it's not blowing away on me. :D
Sorry, if anything I said, you thought I was implying was "wrong". There's no wrong way to have fun. As long as we come back with all our fingers and toes. :D
It's only "wrong" when we sit around watching tv, doing nothing instead of getting out there, right? ;)
Building that snow wall and pitching the tent below the surface wind probably raised the effective temperature by around 10F. Wind chill is real. The whole experience can be drastically improved when you have the ability to get a bit more protection from the elements. Had he been sitting on the flat ground at surface level, his cooking and eating experience would have been vastly different and likely worse. Also, pitching under trees in heavy snow is not generally recommended by the safety conscious, as even large branches with snow load can break, or even just drop large amounts of snow, and while not inherently dangerous, can flatten a tent. Also, lots of tents require stakes in order to be fully taut, which is beneficial for snow load, and also for keeping the inevitably iced of walls of the interior from touching you or your sleep gear.
@@lifson22 Valid points. I wouldn't pitch "under" a snow loaded tree either. (that would be pretty hard fitting under one of those evergreens). Let us also not forget, all the great exercise involved in the digging process. Just because I wouldn't do it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. I liked watching him do it, just like I do Luke at the outdoor boys channel. Loads of fun to watch. Just because I don't do it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
I stated it didn't "have to" be done, that's all.
I brought it up, because in this video, he did say you "needed" a shovel. I'm just ALSO sharing, that there are different ways.
I've never "needed" one and I've never "needed" tent pegs. This doesn't mean it wouldn't be NICER to ensure the tent was staying outward in all it's corners.
If I desired that myself, I would use strings and sticks burring in the snow instead of lugging pegs. That doesn't mean it's "wrong" for someone to carry them.
You know, it's like the old saying, there's more than one way to skin a cat, that's all.
I'm not suggesting anything one does, is wrong. I'm feeling very misunderstood lol. I'm sharing. Not demanding.
16:50 I would have assumed the the down side of the sleeping bag would be the inside!
Anyone that uses an air mattress knows they will eventually leak. Having issues with one in sub zero weather could be disastrous not just uncomfortable. Still, the new Nemo looks awesome and I'll have to get one.
Curious to see what happens to Mystery Ranch now that YETI bought them
Copying this from another answer. I at least don't think it will be bad for the brand. I think if anything it will help Mystery Ranch have more powerful marketing. I don't think the packs or the prices will change for the next year or two, but after that, who knows. I'm curious too!
Hi from Newfoundland Canada great video buddy
I think 3 pounds is the sweet spot for packs. You can carry weight comfortably but still have a lighter pack. Less than 3 pounds you basically get a bag that can’t handle the weight for long food carries or winter gear.
Great video! Do you think YETI purchasing mystery ranch will adversely affect the quality of their packs n the future?
With a true ASTM 8.5R there should have been 0.0% "creep" of cold at just -5F. In fact, there should be no creep at -50F or even lower with a pad rated THAT extreme. I have a thermorest mondoking with 7R and there is no cold creep whatsoever in such temps or lower. So I'd question that pads rating. I'm not sure but 7R might be good for even lower then -50F but for sure 8.5R would be good in anything known to man if it were truly rated using ASTM standards.
I'm a big guy, so I need at LEAST a 30" wide pad and at LEAST 3" thick. Being over 6' means I need the long, usually "extra long" offering too. I'm stuck with car camping pads for winter hikes. It SUCKS but there are no true backpacking offerings for us XL guys yet. Hence, the mondoking...... but I sleep WARM anywhere with no concern in the world. Doesn't matter how cold it gets. I'll never feel the ground. I don't think you're using a real 8.5R pad by your description. If you felt anything at all in -5, My guess is, it's probably only a "real" 5R MAYBE 5.5R (being optimistic) ASTM. I can assure you, this is not to be expected, as you describe with a true R rated pad of 7R or better. 6R in fact, should have laughed at -5F. You should have felt super warm all night on a real 8.5R even down to literally -60F. 8.5R is HARDCORE (no one but those in northern Canada, Antarctica and Alaska would ever need one). I've never heard of a pad claiming this yet.
I question your premise that there should be no cold creep until lower than -50F. And it would be wrong to characterize what happened to me as feeling cold. I was toasty warm. I just became aware that it was very cold out in the early hours of the morning, hence the creep. But I was perfectly content and sleeping well. If you're a big guy that sleeps warm, you probably have different framework than me for how to interpret warmth ratings of mattresses and sleeping bags. And that's okay!
❤ from 🇮🇪
What R-value if any do you think the reflectix adds to your sleeping pad by putting it underneath?
Reflectix is most useful when there is an air gap, like putting it under the floor of my van. I think it does add R value to a sleeping mat, but not dramatically so. I'd guess it adds around 1 R.
Can we all just agree that the Nemo Tensor is the most overrated sleeping pad out there? Its the only pad I’ve ever had to RETURN because of how bad my back felt and how quickly my arm went numb
I think it's too quick to say it's an overrated mattress. That's a bummer you didn't enjoy it, especially for such an expensive mattress. But I genuinely was warm and comfortable on it and was impressed with it. I will be more testing in before I come to true conclusions.
I have watched many reviews on the Tensor extreme and they are always inconsistent. Some say it’s plenty warm and others stay it’s not nearly as warm as the r-value suggests. Every review I have seen on the x-therm says it’s the warmest pad they have used. I’m have the xtherm and I find it incredibly warm. It’s a little noisy but for winter I’ll take warm over quite every time.
Would you expect that stove to perform well at altitudes of 10k-13k?
Hopefully now that Yeti owns Mystery Ranch we don't see a 3x price increase. Love Mystery Ranch products but will not pay Yeti prices for it.
What do you use for a water filter when in the snow since many become inoperable after freezing temperatures? Or do you just boil snow instead of filtering any water?
For camping like this, for sure just melt snow. There's no access to running water anyway. If I'm backpacking in freezing temperatures but everything isn't buried under 3 feet of snow, I'd use the Grayl or MSR Guardian as those are more freeze resistant.
Great content! Thank you!
Absolutely!
Just so there’s at least one comment not about the NEMO Tensor Extreme, why do you still make so much extra work for yourself using those tiny MSR Lightning Ascents in conditions they’re not intended for? You appeared to be sinking about knee-deep, you should really use snowshoes sized for your weight and the snow conditions. Get yourself some Tubbs Mountaineer 36, Garneau Blizzard III 1036, or GV Wide Trail 1138 or 1242 (no heel lifters on these and crampons are less-aggressive aluminum.) With my 50lb winter pack I’m 310lb and on any kind of snow more substantial than dandelion fluff my 1242 GVs keep me from sinking more than 4-5”. Today I was out in 2 feet plus of mildly consolidated snow with 3-4” of powder on top, at about 280lb total weight, and my Mountaineer 36s kept me near the top of the snow except for a few times when I unknowingly stepped right on a buried evergreen. Use the right tool for the job!
EDIT - I have a pair of Atlas Range MTN 35s that I’ve used a few times this year and was pretty impressed with their flotation with what I was carrying. They’re the same size as Lightning Ascent 30s w/tails, but don’t suffer from the nose-low attitude that MSRs do with that extra surface area in back. Traction is excellent, the BOA binding is very secure and doesn’t allow unwanted foot movement but the foot opening is on the small side. Uninsulated hiking boots with OR Crocodiles take a little doing to get in there, and you have to guide the straps as you tighten the dial.
Did I see that Yeti bought Mystery Ranch? Do you think that's good or bad for the brand?
I did! Wild news. It's too early to tell. I at least don't think it will be bad for the brand. I think if anything it will help Mystery Ranch have more powerful marketing. I don't think the packs or the prices will change for the next year or two, but after that, who knows.
Any thoughts on Yeti purchasing Mystery Ranch?
I'm really curious to see how things will change, if at all. I hope it helps boost a relatively small company with extra marketing power and retail reach. It's too early to tell what'll happen though.
@@eric_hanson yeah these acquisitions always make me nervous. Mystery Ranch has a fantastic reputation for making quality gear so I hope they can elevate that even more
👍👍👍
Miss you on Backpacking TV but liking your new channel. Seriously thinking about unsubscribing from Backpacking TV, I've tried but I can't take the new host seriously.
1.2r and 1/2" worth extra 10 ounces? Nfm
Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm NXT
Are you comparing the weight of the narrow mummy shaped NXT (16 ounces) to the Nemo wide with inflation sack (25 ounces)? The mummy shaped Nemo Extreme is 18 ounces.
@eric_hanson your comparing my 77x25 to a 72x20 and still packed weight is 1/4lb more for nemo, nemo 76x25 is 10oz heavier. didn't think I had to point out so much especially to a pro sponsored guy. Almost everyone doesn't camp, less backpack and those who do aren't prone to do so in artic conditions so...
its not that expensive if you use a hot tent
you even have "name brand" headlamps, bro LEDs are not complicated anymore. LIterally any $7 headlamp will work the same
First
nice work!
You cant qualify 'unique' either it is or it isn't.