Building a Loader for a Garden Tractor - Phase 1: Rebuilding the Front Axle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2021
- Part 1 of a multipart series covering the entire process of designing, building and installing a quick-attach front loader for a Case/Ingersoll garden tractor.
Phase 1 covers the design and fabrication of a heavy duty front axle/spindles/hubs to replace the relatively light duty originals, and preparing to reinforce the tractor's main frame to prepare it for the additional weight and stress of a loader. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
What I liked the most is that you are the only person that gives so much information about every step and step by step even though you don't t show doing it because obviously takes a long time but thank you for sharing your knowledge with others
I know this is a bit old but dang! What a nice video to watch. Well done.
Your machinist skills and logic are top notch.....
Thank you!
Overkill is underrated. Good project.
Very impressive work. I like your line of thinking right from the very start. I've done many tractor mods myself and also have come across many that others have done. You're the first I've seen that realizes there are limitations to factory-built machines. So often I've seen machines damaged beyond repair due to overloading, mostly from hanging excessive weights, oversized tires, etc., all in an effort to make the machine do something it was never intended to do.
It's most interesting to watch you work through each issue, which to me is my favorite aspect of this hobby. When I first started, I tried to restore these tractors to the original but that soon became rather boring, not to mention original parts are always getting harder to find. I'm now more into modifying and building attachments. But with the same goal as you. Making it better than new.
You would be a very interesting neighbor for sure.
Thanks, Joe. That means a lot coming from someone with your experience.
I enjoy watching someone that understand physics. shit bends !! thank you
New subscriber, you are very knowledgeable, I’m a retired Boilermaker and welder. Enjoyed watching your video thanks!🙏🇺🇸
Thanks, Rodney!
Wow you've been busy great to see ya back on a very interesting and detailed project. Keep up the great work and I wish you the best of luck on this endeavor.
Thank you very much!
It's actually very simple to figure out the ackerman angle. Drawing a line from the tie rod connection on the steering arm through the spindle pivot should instersect the center of the rear drive axle. This will give you the correct ackerman.
Good point. I hadn't understood before the comments on this video that the control arms should be pointed at the center point of the rear axle. Once you know that, you're right hat it's easy to know the angle.
You made a comment about your welds wouldn't be record breaking, or something to that affect. They look great to me. This is an amazing example of DIY design and imagination.
Bob if you arnt a design engineer you should be. Regards Stuart Bell from NE England UK👍
Ain’t that the truth!!
Absolutely fantastic video, I'm going to be following this series as I have a case Ingersoll 446 and would love to build a loader
Excellent video Bob :) also interesting topic and looking forward watching more videos you doing too!
Looking good. It looks stock and stronger. Part two will be great
Thanks 👍
The best rule of thumb for the Ackerman steering geometry for the steering arms is that they should angle back to the center point of the rear axle and the wheel spindle kingpin should be angled to the centerline of the tire
Can you expound on what you mean by the kingpin angle?
@@TheBuildist the kingpin is the point at which the wheels rotate left and right... The angle when viewed from the back with the kingpin in the upright position should intersect the centerline of the tire (or be as close as possible) as this helps the tires for both sides want to go straight reducing bump steer in a straight axle at all speeds (even if it's an arched axle). The further away from the tire centerline the kingpin angle as well as kingpin offset is the harder it is to maintain a straight travel path. Another kingpin adjustment is the lean forward/backward... Leaning the kingpin forward will lead to more straight line instability but give a more rapid turn response (taxi cabs use this to improve their lane changes) this causes the top of the outer tire to lean out during a turn and the inner tire to lean in. Leaning the kingpin back increases the straight line stability and keeps the outer tire more upright during turns while causing the inner tire to lean out at the top causing a better bite into the ground improving steering grip. Another consideration is axles built for high loads have a few degrees negative camber built in so that the spindles point down towards the axle nuts this way when loaded the spindles and axle flex cause the spindles to sit parallel to the ground.
On my JD F 935 (rear steering), l removed passenger side tire and spindle, installed passenger side 360° caster, slightly smaller pneumatic tire. Now powered steering is only on driver's side, and passenger side follows perfectly, no more scalped grass. Good luck, ps sharp turns are performed with steering brakes.
Looking good Bob. I am anticipating the video of the quick attach in action.
You are an accomplished craftsman sir!
Love thoses case lawn mowers my father in law had one and used alot
There incredible amount of engineering that you put into this project. I was actually thinking of using the same base tractor for my build however I believe I am going to actually take an Allis Chalmers B10 and build a backhoe and a front loader for it. I may have to go through most of the engineering though.
Great project and great workmanship!
The only thing I would have done different would have been to machine new spindles out of ~3.00" bar stock, which would have given you a lot more inherent strength where the king pins pierce them, and you could have milled the stock square and then milled the 12° angle on one side to set flat against to steering arm. Also, I have a JD430 LGT that has 1" front spindles, and they are a know weak point even without a front end loader. I have broken tow on my tractor with no FEL. I would have gone for 1.25" spindles instead of the 1". Better to have more strength than needed than insufficient strength.
But still, you a doing a great job.
Now I'll watch part 2.
Thanks for some really good input. I will admit that cost won out over the desire for strength. Going up to the thicker spindles meant that I couldn't use golf cart wheels. So the cost of spindles and hubs more than doubled and the cost of actual wheels to put on them went up by triple. I do agree that the thicker ones are preferable. But I was trying to limit my overall spend. So these ended up being the sweet spot, even though I know they're barely good enough. Let's hope I guessed right, eh?
But thanks for your good and thoughtful input.
So this is in no way to criticize your work. Just a constructive input to your work. Chamfering the weld areas of anything will ensure a full penetration and no gaps in between metal to allow failure or cracks to begin. Just like the steering arms, if you chamfered the inside radius of the piece. That will ensure that the steering will not have any failures in the long run. Great videos!!!! You inspire me and educate me to do my own build!!!!!!
Believe me when I tell you that I bevelled things extensively.
Thanks for the "heads up!"
@@TheBuildist Now that I fully completed the video. I had no idea what all goes in to steering. But thank you so much for the knowledge. I myself am gonna be (hopefully) getting my hands on an International cub low boy 184 and I’ll be putting in the same ideas to steering. I went to see it some time before this comment and I may just be able to build it with no major changes to the steering. Do you think a similar build can be done except adding a front wheel drive? Since the front axel is hollow, I think it may just work.
Very ambitious project. Can’t wait to see part 2.
like the taper attachment on the lathe
Glad I found this. I have a FMC Husky Bolens H 14 with all hydrostatic drive with live PTO and hydraulic lift front and rear. I'm an experienced fabricator planing to do a project like this. It too will need the front axle beefed up. I'll download your series for ideas. Can design and build but like to see what others have done. So let's go. Othumbs up n subbed. Dandahermit
Sounds like an awesome machine. Show it off when it's finished!
The tie rod steering geometry is called the “Ackerman principle”
I'm going to use a lot of your ideas luckily I have a loader that size all made from a bx Kubota. I mentioned jack stands instead of your a frame. I'll show you how mine work when I make a video
Awesome stuff!
Thanks!
Now I know why I didn’t attend a mechanical school dammit the details on details very impressive but nasa has nothing on you wow 😢
I weld 100% ! Thats the only right way to do it. Hardened wear washers can wear into the ears on the tractor. If you use brass washers the washers will wear only and not anything else.
Also you can drill the pin out to grease bushing.
I appreciate the input.
All if you can. But should be plenty strong the way you made it. I have a cub cadet 70 and I found an original danco loader attached made to fit the narrow frame tractors. I think I'll leave the front end alone except for maybe fixing it if the pins and bushing are loose. I hope the smaller engine can handle the loader. Your machine looks great!
thank you for you're video
Good project but before you weld it all the way through the first joint with the black plate. you should of made the hole before fully welded well at least that's what I think because I had a lot of trouble with making any type of hole on a weld
Over time I've learned about drilling/cutting into a welded area, and it turns out that it's only the very skin of the weld that's hard to cut. Apparently it develops some kind of crystallization as it cools, on the outer surface of metal. Once you penetrate the outer skin, it drills/cuts/machines ok. So after welding, clean off any bb's with a flap disk, those are hard as rocks, and grind off the weld surface with the flap disk too. Then you can drill or cut basically fine.
i LOVE that u made ur own front axle..but i was wondering about grafting on premade axles...i know simpicity had a mower with a loader amd so does cub cadet
Excellent, insightful question! You're right, and I very nearly purchased a Simplicity axle and spindles off of Ebay. But 2 things stopped me: 1. Even though the purchase price was cheap, after shipping they were expensive. Something over $250 delivered. Homemade axle cost $75 total. 2. More importantly, with the pre-made axle I have to use the geometry as it comes, in particular the height from the ground to the axle pivot. In all likelihood I'd have to extensively reconstruct the front area of my frame to make it properly meet and attach to the pre-made axle's pivot point. The more I thought about it, if I had to take on extensive steelwork and welding anyway, why not leave the frame alone and just do that extensive work fabricating the axle?
And thanks for a great question!
One of the easiest ways to get good penetration is to grind or sand the paint or rust off before welding. It also makes for less porosity in the weld.
The 520 by Wheel Horse has a special swept forward front axle that is head and shoulders above their other stuff Tapered roller bearings and enhanced steering geometry. Eve
The Onan engine sometimes overheats it's test cylinder or you may be able to adapt it to an Ingersoll
Oh Yea, gots me a WHEEL HOSPOWER 520. With the heavy-duty front double-staped front spindle axles ,with the "almost power stearing " gearbox. I think it is very hard to beat with ALL its Fantastic Attributes.
What about moving the ps cylinder to the front, perpendicular to the line of travel? The cylinder could directly actuate the tie rod(s). It would mean longer hoses but it would solve most of your binding/interference issues.
Excellent suggestion. I considered it, but my tie rod is shorter than the length of the current cylinder. So I'd need to source a different cylinder. I considered buying the cheapest power steering rack off of Rock Auto or such, but that could open Pandora's box of cascading issues to be resolved. If you keep watching, you'll see it does all work out in the end.
Thanks again
Awesome video so far not at the end but had to ask before I forget lol what about extending the frame . would that give you the room for your front end you want ?
I never even thought about extending the frame. I can see how it could help with ingress / egress and getting around the vertical towers. But I think it'll be okay the way it is. I do want to keep it overall as compact as possible. But that's a great question!
Nice work. Just a pro tip from a welder. Next time grind down the paint where you plan to weld. You get better penetration and s better looking weld
Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure where in the video it looks like I welded through paint. But I didn't. I only welded to clean metal. Especially using a 7018 rod.
The Case and Ingersol hydraulic drive tractors are built very well but can cost a lot to repair when the drive system wears out. I had two Case 448’s and I didn’t like how tightly the engine is stuffed under the hood along with tight access to the pump under the dashboard.
Good observation. I've only done very much work on cases and Cub cadets. The older Cub cadets did have more room to work on them, but they were single cylinder machines with far less power. And when you consider Case's built-in live hydraulics, machines like the Cub Cadet didn't have anywhere near the capabilities of the Case machines. But I can imagine how some people would prefer their more traditional drivetrain with a clutch and transmission.
Man that wedding ring is choking your finger. That made me uncomfortable looking at it 🤣
Funny story about that: I've been married over 30 years, and one day about 25 yrs ago, I looked at my ring and it was split. It has a transverse crack running across it, only the springiness of the metal keeps it in place. So it can bend and expand. A few times over the years it has pinched me, which hurt. But a few times I've snagged it on something to the point that the ring got bent open and ripped off my finger. No injury! I just had to bend it back into shape. So it's an accidental safety ring! LOL
How did you maintain your angle yet miss the angle block when you exited the hole? I would have been a little more worried about the two points of contact with a round workpiece in flat vise jaws especially with that uneven entry. Lots of torque when only one flute is contacting even if it is for a few rpms.
Excellent question, and good observation.
As far as the angle block, I pulled it out before I penetrated the bottom surface, so I wouldn't hit it with the bit. By then the bit was well aligned in the vertical hole, and there wasn't any meaningful side/angle pressure.
And you're right about the single flute contact, which is why, before I drilled with the 1" bit, I took a carbide burr and beveled the top surface where the bit was about to seat/bite. I worked down the high side, so that both flutes would begin cutting at the same time. by doing that, though the workpiece is angled, the drilling shaft and pressure is all just vertical.
And I tightened the vise down more than I typically would. It worked like a charm.
Thanks for your input!
Could you have put the tie rods on the top so that your steering cylinder end doesn't hit them. Just wondering because from my view it would look doable.
I like how you think! You'll like how it turns out in the next episode.
Ohly feaach This Is AWESOME! Im commenting after 4:26 into this video and I am Not FU*KIN sleepin tonight WOOO WOO WOO Go Rocket man Show Us what you got! Like finally a real maker, makin a makers video.
Thank you sir! Rock ON!
Use 6010 to 6011 for base weld then 7018 cap
I'm curious if you could ditch the dog leg by flipping the tie rod to the top of the steering arms. In the Jeep world, they flip the tie rod to clear the front leaf springs following a lift installation.
Keep watching, you'll see the final result
I was just about to edit after watching Phase 2. Great job.
new here and love what you are doing but have a ? whats your take on doing the loader with a cylinder to turn a blade ? why I am asking is I plow snow in Alverta
For this machine I already have a blade, so I'd probably just detach the loader and use the blad. But to address your question: I've built the capability in to swap out attachments on here so it wouldn't be hard to build a blade adapter to mount a blade where the bucket is. But because I dont' have an extra spool valve to control the tilt, I'd have to do manual tilt for this particular machine. If it were anticipated, though, I could have just as easily added a 3 spool loader valve instead of just 2. Would have cost an extra $50 or so.
FInally, it occurs to me that you could just cover the opening of your bucket with a blade. maybe hinge it on one of the far sides and it could have adjustable tilt to that side. That could be pretty handy for snow, a blade most of the time, but a bucket if you need to pick some up and relocate it.
@@TheBuildist so like a grapple then right never thought of it that way on a small scale and keep up the great videos you do
As far as the hydraulic steering rod goes you could’ve angled the ear back towards the cylinder. It would just take a little playing with to find the angle, then you’d be able to put the tie rod back where it goes.
It was trickier than it sounds. If you watch part 2 you'll see I got it worked out.
Mount the cylinder parallel to the tie rod.
I love the idea. Figuring out the geometry of how to get the cylinder mounted sideways and pivoting with the axle at the same pivot point turned out to be beyond what I wanted to fool with, since I was able to fairly easily figure out how to just get the cylinder working near its original configuration. But I love the idea.
I’m wanting to do this with my d160 wheel horse
do you have room to put the tie rod on top of control arms and get rid of dog leg?
I like how you're thinking. But carry on to part 2 my friend!
That axle is beefy. No doubt it will withstand anything you throw at it.
what rod did you say you used i like 6011 for root and 7018 as a filler
I used 7018 rod for everything. It welds beautifully but you do have to have really good clean metal to start with. No rust no paint.
Bob, can you tell me what the diameter of the pivot pin is? I need to do something similar.
If you mean the center pivot pin, I looked at my drawing and I have it dimensioned as 1.5". I think, but I'm not certain that that's a precision dimension. But it could just be nominal.
have you tried making a dozer or some heavy machines?
Not officially. But I think the consensus may be that I'm building this one to "dozer" spec's! :-) I guess I can't help it!
When did you get that saw I cannot see one listed on their site
It's been 4 or 5 years back. It looks like they no longer carry it.... Sorry.
do you have room to put the tie rod on top of control arms and get rid of dog leg?
@@michaelwardlow4080 I like how you're thinking. But carry on and watch part 2!
Couldn’t you have mounted the tie rod on the the top side of the tie rod mounts?
No, that would have made the tie rod interfere with the factory "Snap Fast" front implement attachment system. Thanks!
That's "Garden" tractor not "lawn". There is a world of difference between the two types.
I guess I slipped and said, "Lawn"?
Oh noooooooo
i dont think those little tie rod ends are going to hold up.
You're right, they didn't. I ended up building a new 3/4" tie rod with 3/4" rod ends. Good observation.
Bob your wedding ring looks stuck lol your finger might fall off
The front axle is wrought iron not cast , cast is to brittle.
Thanks for pointing that out.
It’s missing a loader because it’s a lawn tractor 😅
Steering arms might be better on top
Astute observation so far. Keep watching :-)
*zerk*
Too much talking
What can I say?😀
@@TheBuildist apparently a lot , lol
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