Talking about no new factions. I really want to applaud the game for including all the factions from the first game and its expansions. It feels like starting with a full slate, and it means that if this game also gets expansions, we can expect to see more factions added as well.
It's sad to think this bare minimum of what a Remake should have is enough to satisfy your low expectations. This game is little more than a SoaSE Rebellion Remake with some QoL improvements. There's nothing in there that would make it a sequel.
@@TurKlack The entire tech trees have been reworked, the various resources and how you harvest them are no longer the same. Planetary and Capital ships upgrades are not the same. Numerous abilities have been changed, numerous more have been added. There's a ton of new game mechanics too. The only way this is the same as Rebellion is that it's an RTS in the same franchise. I've played hundreds of hours of Rebellion but this game feels entirely different. I had no idea what I was doing. My old build orders and tactics did not work
@@TurKlackin the game’s defense; it feels far different to play than the first game. If you don’t play it yourself and only watch gameplay videos online, it’s easy to think that and I can see why.
As a PvE turtle myself, I actually like the orbiting planets: it brings that spice to a match that a static unchanging map wouldn't have. Getting into situations like having a revolving door of planets spinning into a static phase lane where all the enemies come from with occasional side routes they can sneak into makes for some fun gameplay where I need to know which planets I need to shore up my defenses in, and where to move my defense fleet into. It's also worth remembering that the orbiting system benefits you as much as it benefits the enemy, for instance a planet you own that may previously be a frontline may suddenly break its phase lane, giving a much needed reprieve, or perhaps said movement brings a planet in range of some of your ranged interplanetary passives or into a Novalith Cannon. I actually don't think I can go back to the completely static maps of the original.
@@Kanjejou They can - static defenses and other orbital structures above a planet (except mines on asteroids) can be orbited around it so they're facing whatever direction you want them to.
Agreed! I love to heavily fortify and fully garrison some of those asteroids that fly through my empire, because by the time they're in the enemy's empire they're causing havoc automatically attacking nearby planets with free ships and falling back to their starbases when a response is brought. Sure, a concerted effort would bring it down, but when an enemy starts mustering such an effort that direction is exactly when my fleet can attack with impunity.
OG Sins player here....since before Rebellion...back when Sins was on physical medium. Sins 2 is EXACTLY what a sequel should be. If you enjoyed the first one....buy it. If you enjoy RTS games, buy it.
So glad to hear. I still have my original SINS box xP. Used to LAN this with friends in high school and played the crap out of the Star Trek Armada 3 mod for Rebellion.
High praise, friend. I still have that box kicking around somewhere. I enjoyed the hell out of the first and it was great to see it expand so much over time.
I am also a sins of a solar empire 1 old hat. That game released what feels like a lifetime ago so seeing this finally release is a bit surreal. Looking forward to watching this for myself and sending it to some friends on the fence about purchasing. Cheers.
I love Sins2 I'm having such a good time with it. They knocked it out of the park. On the subject of mods I have reached out to both the Sins of the Prophets team and the Star Trek Armada team. Neither have a release date as of yet, but both are hard at work.
@@kiotekful Nope, just gives you a steam key for whichever account you want to play on. I actually gave it to one of my friends who was interested in the game but wasn't sure whether to buy it or not
I like Sins 2 so far. It is more of a reboot than a sequel, but maybe thats for the best nowadays. So far, i like most of the changes they made and hope for a good community and a couple of new factions in the future. If they can't make great new RTS, just make the old ones again and improve them a bit.
I’d also much rather than have a good “reboot” baseline than totally warp the game from release with a bunch of shit that doesn’t fit the vibe of the franchise a la Supreme Commander 2
I have been there from the first moment, earpy access. The devs listen to the community feedback quite thoroughly. I have seen some of the suggestions I made manifest in the game. It feels like "home". I LOVE the new mechanics and the streamlining of plamet/fleet/starbase management. And the diversification of the races. And the nerf of the super weapons. They now are truly a tidebreaker and not a be all end all thing. Also, the best technology advancement is that each gun and missile are their own entity.
@themasterchef9784 sins rebellion has a lot of really, really good full conversion mods. Halo, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc. I have more time in sins of the prophets, the halo mod, than i do in vanilla. The vanilla gameplay is similar to 2, but not as in depth, still really good though.
@@themasterchef9784 as an RTS, Sins2 great As a sequel, it's different that it adds a lot of QoL and improvements but with a bit of differences that throw me off from the familiarity of Sins Rebellion
@@lewanjosephnimick9359 Removed a lot of content, going from four factions each with three tiers and experimentals for land sea and air to three factions, most only having like two relevant air and naval UNITS (and Aeon not even getting a navy!) while largely reducing the scale as well. It's a shame because the research system was interesting and the artillery in SupCom 2 is great, but overall it definitely isn't what the first was.
Zade, your videos are excellent and they have been really getting a lot better recently. I have been watching for maybe over a year or two now after finding your channel via reddit, and I have come to view your channel as the SkillUp of RTS games - a genre I love. I remember thinking back then that, while being great reviews that I valued, there was still an awkwardness with your screen persona or talking style (or more likely editing). But since then you have really improved on it and I regularly send your videos to friends trying to hook them on the latest awesome strategy games (which there aren't many of sadly). I really appreciate your review on this as it's been so long since I played Sin: Rebellion and I have been so on the fence of Sins 2. I don't often leave comments, but I was really impressed and grateful for this video on Sins 2, so I felt obliged to share my thoughts as thanks.
The new changes to capital ship upgrades and mods is the best change overall. You can easily maximize your capitals ships woth those upgrades and allows capitals ships to handle more versatile situations, til you can buy the cap ship you need to fill that role
18:13 Ayy TEC Loyalist turtling is how I won my first bot match. Big space brick Argonev stalling a fleet headed by the Vasari Rebel titan long enough for my main fleet to rotate fronts into the system. In this sequel, it pains me to admit that I didn’t quite understand the new durability and armor strength properties until I got rolled over by the AI twice. Those TEC gauss frigates are GOATed in my eyes after their wide spread introduction to my fleet turned the tides.
I recall doing a TEC loyalist run full galaxy map size, just me vs the rest of the galaxy with no allies. I managed to fight my way to the core and when I beat a wave of ships there I would branch out and take out each branch one by one with a good choke point.
@@rustyzipper19 Its been the defining feature of the Vasari since before Rebellion. The new hotness with Sins 2 is combining Mobile Rulership and Core Drilling (or whatever) with how Orkulus can produce ships, even while assaulting.
Game is amazing in many aspects, but I find the camera tracking random units on zoom to be extremely annoying. It's something they brought back from the first game and it's very obnoxious, as it takes camera control from the player. There's no way to turn it off except to turn off zoom to cursor, which is a separate feature I actually like.
Sins 1 has always been a comfy game to install once in a while for me. Currently playing 2 and gotta admit, the game is definitely deserving of praise, never knew they would improve even QoL stuff this much. It feels like playing a very polished and modernized version of Sins 1 while still feeling unique.
Also been a fan since the early days (sins 1 beta). Very happy with what they have done with this refresh of the game, and what may come. Gamers deserve proper dev lead reboots like this of all their fav franchises.
I played OG Sins only a little bit as I discovered it years after the release and I couldn't be happier with what they made with the sequel. I'm very glad they did not try to reinvent the wheel or shoved in "novelties" that don't fit the base (like: C&C4, Dawn of War 3, Homeworld 3). I hope this sells well and they can work on the title for years to come - really excited about the campaing and a new race DLC. With that said, I do think their pricing is weird. I think most people would consider an RTS game to be complete when it has a campaign in it. Currently you can't just buy the game with the campaign, you can only buy a whole DLC content pack which would cost you £83.99 (not including the discount expiring in a few days). That cost puts it in the AAA bracket where the expectations are much higher. If I were to look at it through that lens it would need: - More graphics options There's very little here we can adjust. - AI Art overhaul Generally I don't mind what we have, but there are some oddities here and there and when it comes to icons (tech tree) the readability could be improved. On another hand, it would have been extremely cool if they let us adjust the player portraits (or import new ones easily) or even incorporated some form of AI Gen for Unit portraits. - Music improvements I don't dislike it and appreciate that it's a matter of taste, but I do find it overly repetitive to the point where I have to just turn it off and play something else on the web. I only played the game for 10 hrs so far. Compare it to C&C and Starcraft series where it never gotten stale for me.
Slightly off topic comment: 14:06: The comment that (paraphrased) "newly colonised planets begin in the black and... requires investment to bring it into the green". I was listening to your review while doing other things, and this was jarring to hear. I know what you meant, but the colours used are incorrect (for the purposes of the normal idiom). The correct colours are 'being in the red' (meaning making a loss), and 'in the black' (meaning you're making money) - being the colours that were traditionally used to represent profit/loss in accounting.
Something to add to the new mechanics of ordering fleeting resupply, if you make the Fleet your control group, it will auto-add the new ships to that control group once they're in the same gravity well as the fleet beacon. Such a tiny feature that provides an insanely huge QOL bonus.
Showing the "faction" that is following the Vasari is bad in my opinion as there is no way to do it justice. The current lore is that the vasari don't even know what it is they're running from, they started running because half their empire just started going dark. No "ahh we're under attack" no "we need to run away they're too strong" just more and more people stopped answering calls and no one that went to see what was up ever came back. How can you make such an overwhelmingly power full enemy, if it's even a tangible enemy and not a natural disaster, in a way that is balanced and does it justice. The answer is you can't, either it's balanced and thus not as strong as it's previous portrayals or it's too op to include in multiplayer.
I did think of a semi answer to this question but that makes only the advent able to fight them. That being uber mind control but the advents unity allows them to resist.
I also thought about this when they announced that the mystery faction will finally be unveiled. The only way I thought it would work is if the mystery factions gimmick was visibility and communication tactics. Like they sever communication and map visibility as part of the faction so it explains why Vasari couldn’t ever pin who they are against. Would allow you to power them down a bit while staying cannon and also giving them a play style unique among the other 3. Could be fun to have a faction that makes sections of the map dark and introduces some tactics based around visibility
Game is good. Although a formal single player campaign with some nice story telling would be appreciated. I think I saw a Campaign DLC announced somewhere.
Loved the first game back in the day. The power of the zoom wheel made the world feel so real. Like if I could zoom in on a total war grand strategy map to see the individual battles. It made the world feel alive. The sequel is just what I wanted.
Ah, how I remember those days. Starting off VERY cautiously and building the economy and new ships slowing. Although it had its faults, it was one of the best space war games. Thanks for the great in-depth review and commentary. 👍👍💯
I kinda wish the new faction wasn't going to be the ones chasing the vasari, but it's almost guaranteed that it is. Whatever they come up with will never be better than the mystery itself
7:10 tbh, the news you were able to run the game on the dinosaur of a pc was a bit of a godsend for me. I was personally afraid my PC’s cpu, a i5 9600K if you were curious, would cause some problems for me, but now even it does, it shouldnt be as bad as that pc had.
I really like how there are a lot more differences between the races and factions. Each race has a lot more unique mechanics. There are a lot more differences between each race's ships. The Vasari don't even use credits anymore. One thing I don't like is how lot of the research icons are just bad since it's hard to tell what the research is from the icons. So you have to either memorize what they are or read the descriptions every time. And each race has dozens of research options.
Still going to stick with Rebellion, unless there's a significant sale or something. I personally don't think there's enough. Should've added a new faction or two, or some sort of campaign. At least something to differentiate the games more.
I would hope that they eventually replace the AI art, even if it's part of like a 10€ art DLC because the current art is really boring and generic and I generally enjoy looking at the art in sci-fi games since they are often where the setting really comes alive. However, right now nothing about the art says Sins, I don't look at it and think “ah that's so typical of the TEC” or anything, it just looks like generic sci-fi placeholder art.
Oh so it IS AI art! I had a really strong feeling but I said to myself "there's no way... This is a real game, there's no way they used AI instead of hiring artists." But they really did? Wow...
Me: *watching videos on YT at night* The TH-camr: *shows clips from their browser, without using dark mode* My Eyeballs: 💀💀 Thanks for the Review though!
My biggest issue with Sins 2 is that the ships just line up, stop and fire. No actual maneuvering in space. Just slugging it out and then moving to a closer to another target. Its pretty, capital ship abilities add a flare, but ultimately its a space game in 2D with no actual maneuvering. I like my space battle like their are in Homeworld, Sword of the Stars 2 ,and Nexus the Jupiter Incident.
I always liked that aspect of the combat. It's easy to control and like World War 2 battleships in space. Still, having some more smaller ships that fly around like the corvettes would be neat.
in sins 1 you could have bid on pirates the onw who wins will be able to fund their next invasion on another faction , here i couldnt find how to do it , if this even exists plus having unlimited battleships destroying the game and its making smaller ships utterly useless to build ...
There seem to be vague hints of upcoming new factions - this ultimate enemy that the Vasari were fleeing from etc... no whether that is just lore or whether that is what is coming, I don't know. Let alone if that/those factions are going to be playable if they make an appearance. I would like to see more factions for sure, even if it's just more subfactions for different Titans or Capital Ships. After you get over the new graphics, it's basically Sins 1. Totally worth buying but nothing groundbreaking.
Been playing it off and on since it was first released on Epic. I knew I already was in love but I was legitimately surprised by how well everything came together. P.S. Didn't know about the Steam transfer, thanks for the tip, doing that now!
One issue I have sins 2, Is that the fleet population doesn't carry as much as it used to. Even at maximum fleet supply you carry less ships than you did in the other games. My TEC enclave at max, carry around 200 ships, where I remember sins rebellion, I can have way more. The fleet supply cost for cruisers is insane as well as the frigates.
I've seen lots of people who haven't bought the game yet complain that they didn't want a sequel to be a glorified remaster, and I feel like that was a misstep in the marketing, and one which was hard to make the right move. I've been playing since the beta, and I really consider Sins 2 to be a ground-up modernization. Sure, technically it's set another 10 or 20 years after Rebellion, but at it's heart, it's still Sins of a Solar Empire, just redesigned and reworked to modern gaming expectations when it comes to quality of life, dynamism, and wider ranges of choice, which is really about the best you could ask for with any sucessor game.
IGN isn't even relevant anymore. It's like babies first review site and that's it. I'd say anyone who takes gaming even slightly seriously realizes IGN are more interested in ideology than gaming.
I really miss the shield’s mitigation system from Rebellion. Late game things feel like they move to fast and things die way to fast. Having this system back would help with things lasting longer and more “holding” actions to occur.
Pretty sure even in the original game, anything will die quickly if they get focus fired, Shield Mitigation or not. Sins 2 has a lot more tools to keep ships alive when practicing proper unit synergies even against overwhelming odds.
I wouldn't call it "Shield Mitigation", because that's not what it was. It affected both Shield And Hull.. You had 70% Mitigation? You had a 70% damage reduction on Both Shield and Hull. The both was pretty unbalanced. There are talks of an option possibly being added to decrease and increase ship survivability though.
The only thing I don't like is that the sub-factions don't really feel unique until the end of the game. I just wish there was maybe more unique early tech or ships rather than the most fun ones being behind t4/5.
Overall I agree with what was said but there is one i don't. I don't think it's cool for the Vassari to arrive on the system from outer space. What that means is that you don't pick the starting capital ship you want. You have to make do with the coloniser capital ship for a while until you can actually build your own capital ships and then you can build it using resources which you do start with but you also need those resources rather early because a lot of their early stuff needs it unfortunatly. I'd rather have them start already on the planet and pick a ship like everyone else. I also agree that there is unfortunatly very little documentation to look at a race and know what they do, what are their unique things or even their ships. it's also impossible to know how a weapon work until you see it fire which is terrible for decision making. One thing you didn't mention but which is something I find rather wrong with the way the game was developed is map generation. Simply put, the map doesn't generates clusters with chokepoints making it very hard to keep a place well defended. Sure there are tools to make such maps but it would be ideal for the game to have a generation method the player could opt for which would lead to fewer travel lanes and more chokepoints so it's easier to defend especially in the early game. Now yes, there is the whole system rotation mechanic but like you I don't like it so I disable it. Another thing that annoys me is how the game is heavily skewed towards placing certain minor factions in a map and those factions also tend to change depending on who you are playing or maybe it depends based on what factions have been picked by you and the AI. I'd like for them to be completly random instead so there would be more variety to the game. There is also some balance issue but overall it's a good game, it just needs a bit more polish.
I hope they advance the story/plot - I really want to know more about the nemesis the Vasari are fleeing from. I don't think they will, but I can dream.
The biggest dissapointment is that the combat is about just focusing fire on capital ships or a titan, and watch them melt, whoever has the biggest blob wins. And when you loose those precious level 6+ capitals or high level titan, there is no propper way to get those levels back, so you are on the backfoot for like 2 hours until you can somehow get those levels back. The game is basically decided with one battle if you win you get massive exp head start over who ever you defeated, if you loose there is no way for you to catch up.
Because you are not supposed to do blob against blob if you want no losses. You need to micro, know when to pull back, etc. Also, have several fleets, different compositions. I rarely lose capitals even against the hardest AI because I differentiate my fleets and plan my engagements. And have enough foresight to retreat when needed.
@@Dinnye01 that may work agaist ai, but hardly against a real person, they will just push you after crushing one of your smaller fleets. And how do you want to micro and pull back when your capital just melts in 20seconds? Before my ship decides to turn around its crippeled and before it can get to the edge of the system its dead coz my opponent spams javelises or asailants with system wide range. Not to mention how unreadable the fights are since ability effects are almost non existent. And the massive issue persist, when you loose that level 7 titan you cant replace it, you just cant. The oponent will destroy you with their now level 9 titan and you cant stop it. Then there are massive balance issues most natable being tec marza who will hit level 6 and delete your fleet with one ability, the pdcs not shooting down missiles propperly which leads to everyone spamming missile ships. This game realy needs few patches.
Nobody can take IGN seriously. The point if this update is to update the engine to 2024 so it can take Sins into the future. This isn't an $80 game or anything. It delivers what it needs to.
Who cares, it's been in the top 10 global sellers on steam since launch. That speaks more than any review score and people are obviously happy with the value for the commenter above. About 90 percent positive reviews currently. It's a success already.
@Zade Hear me out on the AI stuff, if you have a moment. I totally agree that in Stardock's case, it is a mean to an end. But also... somehow to me, it fits the bill so well. Especially that one research where you can turn crystal into credits (I think it is an Advent one) and you see the credits made out of crystal. It's awesome. It somehow goes along with the game well. And again, I understand where you are coming from. But still... it is weirdly fitting for Sins.
modding support atm seems to be very mediocre but who knows.. Also the fact that savegames are immediately invalid on beta patches doesn't bode well.. Not seen that often with any game...
Its like a good remake. Still unbalanced here and there tho. And lacking old diplomacy options. No diplomatic missions for example. There is also a lack of game options to tailor a game closer to what we are looking for (cant activate/deactivate pirates or super weapons.). And random maps are not random enough. The game do run well tho. Still is good looking and seems to be mod friendly.
I’m not an RTS player like at all. But I got the first one about 10 years ago specifically for the the Star Trek Armada 3 mod. Now they’ve announced they’re doing an Armada 4 mod for Sins 2 I best start contemplating a computer upgrade.
This is a remaster not a sequel, c'mon. So the new fourth faction teased 14 years ago will be a DLC (or $100 for the premium edition)? I feel like reviewers are predisposed to hype the game because we loved the old one and a sequel took forever but most of these changes seem like a patches and updates, no new game. And pricing it for $100 premium edition to get the only actual new content at launch is just bad practice. Honestly, Stardock seems to have joined the long list of money over content game studios and I'm surprised more reviewers are not calling them out on it. I'll wait for a sale.
Cons: >Defenses are paper thin and are wiped out fast. Even the Double Agrolev tactic isn't how it used to be. >Starbase Slots work negatively to their function. Should go back to the slot system from the 1st game for them. >Removing fighters from Vasari and have them have Bombers only. >Having Extractors cost Orbital Civic points which is beyond heretical here (not to mention stations seem to cost more OC points). >Overall you can't make any planets with a ton of space stations like in the original game anymore. >Removing trade ports from Advent and Vasari (sure it's part of the TEC mechanics, but come on...). >The space battles are somehow smaller compared to the 1st game (that's my feeling). >Super weapons don't snipe from one star to the other anymore no matter how far it is. >Artifacts now only apply to single planets or capital ships instead of being global upgrades for your empire as a whole. Pros: >Everything else. Still if you want to have some actual fun, then go download some mods that increase unit supply limit and cutting the orbital points for both civic and defense stations.
Adding a Con: with the way the reasearch tree has been streamlined, and how production will lead to automatic research if missing, it feels like research is a lot less relevant.
I like your ideas for rebalancing Sins 2 back to the Sins Rebellion meta, speaking as an old Sins fan myself. However, in the past couple weeks of playing I've come to be accustomed to the Civic points being very limited. It leads to specialized planets and more interesting late game. Upgrading planets is less of a tedious click game and more planned out. You'll need asteroids early game, but can scrap them for Temples of Communion late game, for example. Give the new Sins 2 meta a fair shake and you may grow to like it too, or at least hate it less, in the long term. Happy gaming
Actually most of what you listed as con are actually pros. E.g. diversifying race mechanics. The Advent power of recalling the fleet is mmmuuuuuch more op than any trade advantage. Bases are paper thin? Yeah, mebe learn to doversify your fleets and not move every ship in one big combat group but have defense and assault fleets. The point is to make you use your brain more and be more tactical. Not enough orbital slots? But you have planet slots instead that can free up orbital slots.
Talking about no new factions. I really want to applaud the game for including all the factions from the first game and its expansions. It feels like starting with a full slate, and it means that if this game also gets expansions, we can expect to see more factions added as well.
I think we're missing a capital ship from each faction though
It's sad to think this bare minimum of what a Remake should have is enough to satisfy your low expectations.
This game is little more than a SoaSE Rebellion Remake with some QoL improvements. There's nothing in there that would make it a sequel.
@@TurKlack The entire tech trees have been reworked, the various resources and how you harvest them are no longer the same. Planetary and Capital ships upgrades are not the same. Numerous abilities have been changed, numerous more have been added. There's a ton of new game mechanics too.
The only way this is the same as Rebellion is that it's an RTS in the same franchise.
I've played hundreds of hours of Rebellion but this game feels entirely different. I had no idea what I was doing. My old build orders and tactics did not work
@@TurKlackin the game’s defense; it feels far different to play than the first game. If you don’t play it yourself and only watch gameplay videos online, it’s easy to think that and I can see why.
@@PatrixBest Like I said a remake. There's nothing new, just remade.
As a PvE turtle myself, I actually like the orbiting planets: it brings that spice to a match that a static unchanging map wouldn't have. Getting into situations like having a revolving door of planets spinning into a static phase lane where all the enemies come from with occasional side routes they can sneak into makes for some fun gameplay where I need to know which planets I need to shore up my defenses in, and where to move my defense fleet into. It's also worth remembering that the orbiting system benefits you as much as it benefits the enemy, for instance a planet you own that may previously be a frontline may suddenly break its phase lane, giving a much needed reprieve, or perhaps said movement brings a planet in range of some of your ranged interplanetary passives or into a Novalith Cannon. I actually don't think I can go back to the completely static maps of the original.
I would like the defences to be able to move so they dont get unvalidated by moving line
@@Kanjejou They can - static defenses and other orbital structures above a planet (except mines on asteroids) can be orbited around it so they're facing whatever direction you want them to.
Wanted to add that there is no downside to a new function you can turn off. Would be different if the rotating planets was forced on
@@Kanjejou click on the planet, then the button on the right, advanced controls or something
Agreed! I love to heavily fortify and fully garrison some of those asteroids that fly through my empire, because by the time they're in the enemy's empire they're causing havoc automatically attacking nearby planets with free ships and falling back to their starbases when a response is brought. Sure, a concerted effort would bring it down, but when an enemy starts mustering such an effort that direction is exactly when my fleet can attack with impunity.
OG Sins player here....since before Rebellion...back when Sins was on physical medium. Sins 2 is EXACTLY what a sequel should be. If you enjoyed the first one....buy it. If you enjoy RTS games, buy it.
So glad to hear. I still have my original SINS box xP. Used to LAN this with friends in high school and played the crap out of the Star Trek Armada 3 mod for Rebellion.
High praise, friend. I still have that box kicking around somewhere. I enjoyed the hell out of the first and it was great to see it expand so much over time.
@@cryptthrasher2213 I'm waiting for Eve Online mod, but yeah all of them are great.
I miss when games were on physical media. It actually meant that developers finished the game and released it to the CD
I have my OG physical copy. I really had good memories of the game and glad Sins 2 has come.
I am also a sins of a solar empire 1 old hat. That game released what feels like a lifetime ago so seeing this finally release is a bit surreal. Looking forward to watching this for myself and sending it to some friends on the fence about purchasing. Cheers.
200+ hours in sins 1 no mods. This game is better in almost every way
I love Sins2 I'm having such a good time with it. They knocked it out of the park.
On the subject of mods I have reached out to both the Sins of the Prophets team and the Star Trek Armada team. Neither have a release date as of yet, but both are hard at work.
You serious bro? That's great news
The devs for Armada even released a teaser the other day.
WEW :DDDD
This is a great well-rounded review, and even mentions the dumbassary of IGN's review, which is always welcome
Thanks g
Does anyone even listen to IGN anymore?
I bought sins on epic, thanks for pointing out the steam linking.
does it remove it from epic when you export the key for steam?
@@kiotekful Nope, just gives you a steam key for whichever account you want to play on. I actually gave it to one of my friends who was interested in the game but wasn't sure whether to buy it or not
Thank you for your service as BETA tester. Must have been rough to not even be able to play Advent.
I like Sins 2 so far. It is more of a reboot than a sequel, but maybe thats for the best nowadays.
So far, i like most of the changes they made and hope for a good community and a couple of new factions in the future.
If they can't make great new RTS, just make the old ones again and improve them a bit.
It’s only a reboot until the dlc and expansions drop.
I’d also much rather than have a good “reboot” baseline than totally warp the game from release with a bunch of shit that doesn’t fit the vibe of the franchise a la Supreme Commander 2
Damn I can't wait for the mods of this game to really start popping off!
Star Trek Armada 4 development is now underway
@@Anthony-jo7up good lord! I like Armada 3 but Ages of the Federation was my jam for a long time.
@@Anthony-jo7up YES! YES! YEEESSSS!!!! Armada 3 was an absolute GEM when I played it. Too bad it keeps crashing whenever I play it now.
hopefully the borg wont get super nerfed like it did in later releases of armada 3. that made me so sad for my borg drones
StarWar coming
I have been there from the first moment, earpy access. The devs listen to the community feedback quite thoroughly. I have seen some of the suggestions I made manifest in the game. It feels like "home".
I LOVE the new mechanics and the streamlining of plamet/fleet/starbase management. And the diversification of the races.
And the nerf of the super weapons. They now are truly a tidebreaker and not a be all end all thing.
Also, the best technology advancement is that each gun and missile are their own entity.
I never played the og sins but I love a good rts game. You’d recommend?
@themasterchef9784 sins rebellion has a lot of really, really good full conversion mods.
Halo, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc. I have more time in sins of the prophets, the halo mod, than i do in vanilla. The vanilla gameplay is similar to 2, but not as in depth, still really good though.
@@Phwonk and sins 2? I’m on the fence about getting it.
@@themasterchef9784 as an RTS, Sins2 great
As a sequel, it's different that it adds a lot of QoL and improvements but with a bit of differences that throw me off from the familiarity of Sins Rebellion
@@themasterchef9784 ABSOLUTELY! You are in for a treat! It has a learning curve, but that makes it all the more satisfying!
I'm so glad they didn't do what GPG did with Supreme Commander 2
Jesus Christ yeah 😅😅😅
The WORST.
What did they do? Haven't played the first
@@lewanjosephnimick9359 Removed a lot of content, going from four factions each with three tiers and experimentals for land sea and air to three factions, most only having like two relevant air and naval UNITS (and Aeon not even getting a navy!) while largely reducing the scale as well.
It's a shame because the research system was interesting and the artillery in SupCom 2 is great, but overall it definitely isn't what the first was.
That was a travesty indeed but a good lesson in "how to cut your feet off in 1 easy release"
Zade, your videos are excellent and they have been really getting a lot better recently. I have been watching for maybe over a year or two now after finding your channel via reddit, and I have come to view your channel as the SkillUp of RTS games - a genre I love.
I remember thinking back then that, while being great reviews that I valued, there was still an awkwardness with your screen persona or talking style (or more likely editing). But since then you have really improved on it and I regularly send your videos to friends trying to hook them on the latest awesome strategy games (which there aren't many of sadly).
I really appreciate your review on this as it's been so long since I played Sin: Rebellion and I have been so on the fence of Sins 2. I don't often leave comments, but I was really impressed and grateful for this video on Sins 2, so I felt obliged to share my thoughts as thanks.
Hey that means a lot, thank you! The skill up of RTS games is truly an amazing compliment. Thanks for sticking around! 😊
Thanks for the review! If you guys have any vfx requests (any explosions that you think need work, lasers that need more oomf), lmk!
The new changes to capital ship upgrades and mods is the best change overall. You can easily maximize your capitals ships woth those upgrades and allows capitals ships to handle more versatile situations, til you can buy the cap ship you need to fill that role
18:13 Ayy TEC Loyalist turtling is how I won my first bot match. Big space brick Argonev stalling a fleet headed by the Vasari Rebel titan long enough for my main fleet to rotate fronts into the system.
In this sequel, it pains me to admit that I didn’t quite understand the new durability and armor strength properties until I got rolled over by the AI twice. Those TEC gauss frigates are GOATed in my eyes after their wide spread introduction to my fleet turned the tides.
I recall doing a TEC loyalist run full galaxy map size, just me vs the rest of the galaxy with no allies. I managed to fight my way to the core and when I beat a wave of ships there I would branch out and take out each branch one by one with a good choke point.
As a Vasari main, I have to say your Argonev stations make great food for my Orkulus led fleets.
@@adamgroszkiewicz814 I haven’t checked if the orkulus can still jump between systems in Sins II. Iirc it was a Vasari Rebel thing.
@@rustyzipper19 Its been the defining feature of the Vasari since before Rebellion. The new hotness with Sins 2 is combining Mobile Rulership and Core Drilling (or whatever) with how Orkulus can produce ships, even while assaulting.
Aaaaand Star Trek Armada IV (mod) has just been announced to be in development
That's what I like to hear :D
Game is amazing in many aspects, but I find the camera tracking random units on zoom to be extremely annoying. It's something they brought back from the first game and it's very obnoxious, as it takes camera control from the player. There's no way to turn it off except to turn off zoom to cursor, which is a separate feature I actually like.
Sins 1 has always been a comfy game to install once in a while for me. Currently playing 2 and gotta admit, the game is definitely deserving of praise, never knew they would improve even QoL stuff this much. It feels like playing a very polished and modernized version of Sins 1 while still feeling unique.
All we needed 1 thing , being able to play it on multiple core systems, they delivered !
Imagine the new Sins with Sins of the Prophets or Star Trek Armada 3 ? I can only get so hard.
Well, Sins of the prophets-team have been working with it for a while so it might not be too long until we can play it.
I can't stop playing sins 2 its f'ing amazing
Also been a fan since the early days (sins 1 beta). Very happy with what they have done with this refresh of the game, and what may come. Gamers deserve proper dev lead reboots like this of all their fav franchises.
I played OG Sins only a little bit as I discovered it years after the release and I couldn't be happier with what they made with the sequel. I'm very glad they did not try to reinvent the wheel or shoved in "novelties" that don't fit the base (like: C&C4, Dawn of War 3, Homeworld 3).
I hope this sells well and they can work on the title for years to come - really excited about the campaing and a new race DLC.
With that said, I do think their pricing is weird.
I think most people would consider an RTS game to be complete when it has a campaign in it. Currently you can't just buy the game with the campaign, you can only buy a whole DLC content pack which would cost you £83.99 (not including the discount expiring in a few days).
That cost puts it in the AAA bracket where the expectations are much higher. If I were to look at it through that lens it would need:
- More graphics options
There's very little here we can adjust.
- AI Art overhaul
Generally I don't mind what we have, but there are some oddities here and there and when it comes to icons (tech tree) the readability could be improved. On another hand, it would have been extremely cool if they let us adjust the player portraits (or import new ones easily) or even incorporated some form of AI Gen for Unit portraits.
- Music improvements
I don't dislike it and appreciate that it's a matter of taste, but I do find it overly repetitive to the point where I have to just turn it off and play something else on the web. I only played the game for 10 hrs so far. Compare it to C&C and Starcraft series where it never gotten stale for me.
Slightly off topic comment:
14:06: The comment that (paraphrased) "newly colonised planets begin in the black and... requires investment to bring it into the green". I was listening to your review while doing other things, and this was jarring to hear. I know what you meant, but the colours used are incorrect (for the purposes of the normal idiom).
The correct colours are 'being in the red' (meaning making a loss), and 'in the black' (meaning you're making money) - being the colours that were traditionally used to represent profit/loss in accounting.
Excellent review Zade! Touched on all the key points and some, as an old vet of the first one with many hours played, this was music to my ears.
Much appreciated brother
Jesus Christ that AI art reveal was a jumpscare, I hope what they're saying is true and they only trained their algorithm on in-house input.
Something to add to the new mechanics of ordering fleeting resupply, if you make the Fleet your control group, it will auto-add the new ships to that control group once they're in the same gravity well as the fleet beacon. Such a tiny feature that provides an insanely huge QOL bonus.
Homeworld 3 was unplayable for me with the camera, they should just do this instead
Showing the "faction" that is following the Vasari is bad in my opinion as there is no way to do it justice. The current lore is that the vasari don't even know what it is they're running from, they started running because half their empire just started going dark. No "ahh we're under attack" no "we need to run away they're too strong" just more and more people stopped answering calls and no one that went to see what was up ever came back.
How can you make such an overwhelmingly power full enemy, if it's even a tangible enemy and not a natural disaster, in a way that is balanced and does it justice. The answer is you can't, either it's balanced and thus not as strong as it's previous portrayals or it's too op to include in multiplayer.
I did think of a semi answer to this question but that makes only the advent able to fight them. That being uber mind control but the advents unity allows them to resist.
I also thought about this when they announced that the mystery faction will finally be unveiled. The only way I thought it would work is if the mystery factions gimmick was visibility and communication tactics. Like they sever communication and map visibility as part of the faction so it explains why Vasari couldn’t ever pin who they are against. Would allow you to power them down a bit while staying cannon and also giving them a play style unique among the other 3. Could be fun to have a faction that makes sections of the map dark and introduces some tactics based around visibility
The fact the Roadmap has everything that I hoped Sins would eventually have is icing on the cake. (Campaign, mostly, looking forward to that)
Game is good. Although a formal single player campaign with some nice story telling would be appreciated. I think I saw a Campaign DLC announced somewhere.
Yeah Campaign is supposed to come with one of the DLCs.
I turtle like an absolute smeghead and I love the orbiting planet mechanic. It adds a new layer of complexity to defending.
I hear ya
I may come around to it I'll admit
Loved the first game back in the day. The power of the zoom wheel made the world feel so real. Like if I could zoom in on a total war grand strategy map to see the individual battles. It made the world feel alive. The sequel is just what I wanted.
Ah, how I remember those days. Starting off VERY cautiously and building the economy and new ships slowing. Although it had its faults, it was one of the best space war games. Thanks for the great in-depth review and commentary. 👍👍💯
Holy crap, I could have sworn the art they used was AI. I thought I was just being paranoid. I'm glad someone mentioned it.
It says it is on the steam page
Apart from some balances problems i really like sins 2.
Sins 1 didn't include a campaign, but if this did get one it would be interesting to see how Stardock implements it.
I kinda wish the new faction wasn't going to be the ones chasing the vasari, but it's almost guaranteed that it is.
Whatever they come up with will never be better than the mystery itself
7:10 tbh, the news you were able to run the game on the dinosaur of a pc was a bit of a godsend for me. I was personally afraid my PC’s cpu, a i5 9600K if you were curious, would cause some problems for me, but now even it does, it shouldnt be as bad as that pc had.
Man i was terrible at rebellion i never figured it out maybe should pick it up again
why are people malding that this is ''just a remake'' when what they did is continue successfull formula that people liked
I really like how there are a lot more differences between the races and factions. Each race has a lot more unique mechanics. There are a lot more differences between each race's ships. The Vasari don't even use credits anymore.
One thing I don't like is how lot of the research icons are just bad since it's hard to tell what the research is from the icons. So you have to either memorize what they are or read the descriptions every time. And each race has dozens of research options.
Still going to stick with Rebellion, unless there's a significant sale or something. I personally don't think there's enough. Should've added a new faction or two, or some sort of campaign. At least something to differentiate the games more.
I would hope that they eventually replace the AI art, even if it's part of like a 10€ art DLC because the current art is really boring and generic and I generally enjoy looking at the art in sci-fi games since they are often where the setting really comes alive. However, right now nothing about the art says Sins, I don't look at it and think “ah that's so typical of the TEC” or anything, it just looks like generic sci-fi placeholder art.
As a newcomer to the series, this sounds pretty good
it's the best time to play sins
Oh so it IS AI art! I had a really strong feeling but I said to myself "there's no way... This is a real game, there's no way they used AI instead of hiring artists." But they really did? Wow...
Missile ship spam is a real pain, same when I watch my fleet get torn apart by 1000 fighters on unfair
Me: *watching videos on YT at night*
The TH-camr: *shows clips from their browser, without using dark mode*
My Eyeballs: 💀💀
Thanks for the Review though!
My biggest issue with Sins 2 is that the ships just line up, stop and fire. No actual maneuvering in space. Just slugging it out and then moving to a closer to another target. Its pretty, capital ship abilities add a flare, but ultimately its a space game in 2D with no actual maneuvering. I like my space battle like their are in Homeworld, Sword of the Stars 2 ,and Nexus the Jupiter Incident.
the issue with this is it makes target selection hell
I always liked that aspect of the combat. It's easy to control and like World War 2 battleships in space. Still, having some more smaller ships that fly around like the corvettes would be neat.
in sins 1 you could have bid on pirates the onw who wins will be able to fund their next invasion on another faction , here i couldnt find how to do it , if this even exists
plus having unlimited battleships destroying the game and its making smaller ships utterly useless to build ...
The Devs have already stated a new faction is coming, along woth expansions and a story campaign...
There seem to be vague hints of upcoming new factions - this ultimate enemy that the Vasari were fleeing from etc... no whether that is just lore or whether that is what is coming, I don't know. Let alone if that/those factions are going to be playable if they make an appearance. I would like to see more factions for sure, even if it's just more subfactions for different Titans or Capital Ships. After you get over the new graphics, it's basically Sins 1. Totally worth buying but nothing groundbreaking.
I love the orbiting planets.
i found another turtle , dont we just love our defence huh
Sounds like we finally have a worthy sequel this year, lol
22:42 this a killer feature for me. Can't go back now that I have it
Been playing it off and on since it was first released on Epic. I knew I already was in love but I was legitimately surprised by how well everything came together.
P.S. Didn't know about the Steam transfer, thanks for the tip, doing that now!
my pleasure!
it's a perfect sequel of a strategy game.
Also missing are the pirate raids.
I love Turtle.
33:52 Well, Star trek Armada 4 has already been announced for sins 2, so there's that
One issue I have sins 2, Is that the fleet population doesn't carry as much as it used to. Even at maximum fleet supply you carry less ships than you did in the other games. My TEC enclave at max, carry around 200 ships, where I remember sins rebellion, I can have way more. The fleet supply cost for cruisers is insane as well as the frigates.
I've seen lots of people who haven't bought the game yet complain that they didn't want a sequel to be a glorified remaster, and I feel like that was a misstep in the marketing, and one which was hard to make the right move. I've been playing since the beta, and I really consider Sins 2 to be a ground-up modernization. Sure, technically it's set another 10 or 20 years after Rebellion, but at it's heart, it's still Sins of a Solar Empire, just redesigned and reworked to modern gaming expectations when it comes to quality of life, dynamism, and wider ranges of choice, which is really about the best you could ask for with any sucessor game.
Great game and good run in this vid! o7
Really nice video review, one of my favorite RTS games and I just saw Armada 4 in development is going to be amazing!!!
I still feel like this game is rather bare bones when compared to the competition.
been a busy week, only have 30 hours logged... loving it
lmao IGN
you think you hate journalists
you do not hate them enough
Ign got a shit version of the game so their review is fair
IGN isn't even relevant anymore. It's like babies first review site and that's it.
I'd say anyone who takes gaming even slightly seriously realizes IGN are more interested in ideology than gaming.
@@scatz4569 "Everyone I dislike is ideologically motivated" - a braindead take on quality.
Question about the crossplay with EGS, does it force you to have an EGS account like EDF 6?
It does not require an EGS account
@@failfist9308 Good stuff
Nope :)
Nice review. A ship design I don’t really like is the large TEC-cruiser.
I really miss the shield’s mitigation system from Rebellion. Late game things feel like they move to fast and things die way to fast. Having this system back would help with things lasting longer and more “holding” actions to occur.
Pretty sure even in the original game, anything will die quickly if they get focus fired, Shield Mitigation or not. Sins 2 has a lot more tools to keep ships alive when practicing proper unit synergies even against overwhelming odds.
I wouldn't call it "Shield Mitigation", because that's not what it was. It affected both Shield And Hull.. You had 70% Mitigation? You had a 70% damage reduction on Both Shield and Hull.
The both was pretty unbalanced. There are talks of an option possibly being added to decrease and increase ship survivability though.
The A.I. Art unfortunately makes this a no go for me, but still, good review.
I don't remember seeing the premium version available when I got it on steam. They don't have an upgrade to premium option either. Shame.
oh hallelujah, after homeworld and aom i felt so hopeless about this
cant wait for the startrek mod for this game :D
You creators need to stop telling me to get a snack, is that supposed to be endearing? It's not.
I really miss Upbeat 3 from Sins 1. I hope they will bring that one back. If you know that soundtrack, you know.
I need a SoTP:2 asap 😓😓😓🫡🫡🫡
The only thing I don't like is that the sub-factions don't really feel unique until the end of the game. I just wish there was maybe more unique early tech or ships rather than the most fun ones being behind t4/5.
I was so waiting for this video!
We got there!
Wait wait wait, ate they called the tec? Like pronounced as a word? I've always said "T.E C" the acronym.
Trader Emergency Coalition. But nobody says it like tee e cee
I think people shorten it so its less cumbersome to say
I always say "T-E-C"
I wonder if you upgrade that old system to 8 or even 16 gigs of ram how it would run.
man, i spent so many hours in the first game
Really fun game
0:18 .. it still has the faction the vasari are running from coming.
Overall I agree with what was said but there is one i don't. I don't think it's cool for the Vassari to arrive on the system from outer space. What that means is that you don't pick the starting capital ship you want. You have to make do with the coloniser capital ship for a while until you can actually build your own capital ships and then you can build it using resources which you do start with but you also need those resources rather early because a lot of their early stuff needs it unfortunatly. I'd rather have them start already on the planet and pick a ship like everyone else.
I also agree that there is unfortunatly very little documentation to look at a race and know what they do, what are their unique things or even their ships. it's also impossible to know how a weapon work until you see it fire which is terrible for decision making.
One thing you didn't mention but which is something I find rather wrong with the way the game was developed is map generation. Simply put, the map doesn't generates clusters with chokepoints making it very hard to keep a place well defended. Sure there are tools to make such maps but it would be ideal for the game to have a generation method the player could opt for which would lead to fewer travel lanes and more chokepoints so it's easier to defend especially in the early game. Now yes, there is the whole system rotation mechanic but like you I don't like it so I disable it.
Another thing that annoys me is how the game is heavily skewed towards placing certain minor factions in a map and those factions also tend to change depending on who you are playing or maybe it depends based on what factions have been picked by you and the AI. I'd like for them to be completly random instead so there would be more variety to the game.
There is also some balance issue but overall it's a good game, it just needs a bit more polish.
I hope they advance the story/plot - I really want to know more about the nemesis the Vasari are fleeing from. I don't think they will, but I can dream.
IGN isn't worth typing in the three keystrokes.
amazing ty for the link on how to port the game you sir are a legend
The biggest dissapointment is that the combat is about just focusing fire on capital ships or a titan, and watch them melt, whoever has the biggest blob wins. And when you loose those precious level 6+ capitals or high level titan, there is no propper way to get those levels back, so you are on the backfoot for like 2 hours until you can somehow get those levels back. The game is basically decided with one battle if you win you get massive exp head start over who ever you defeated, if you loose there is no way for you to catch up.
Because you are not supposed to do blob against blob if you want no losses. You need to micro, know when to pull back, etc.
Also, have several fleets, different compositions. I rarely lose capitals even against the hardest AI because I differentiate my fleets and plan my engagements. And have enough foresight to retreat when needed.
@@Dinnye01 that may work agaist ai, but hardly against a real person, they will just push you after crushing one of your smaller fleets. And how do you want to micro and pull back when your capital just melts in 20seconds?
Before my ship decides to turn around its crippeled and before it can get to the edge of the system its dead coz my opponent spams javelises or asailants with system wide range. Not to mention how unreadable the fights are since ability effects are almost non existent. And the massive issue persist, when you loose that level 7 titan you cant replace it, you just cant. The oponent will destroy you with their now level 9 titan and you cant stop it.
Then there are massive balance issues most natable being tec marza who will hit level 6 and delete your fleet with one ability, the pdcs not shooting down missiles propperly which leads to everyone spamming missile ships.
This game realy needs few patches.
split a small fleet and attack somewhere else? most defenses are very weak so its easy to split 100-200 fleet points and got do some crimes.
How the F does the AI rush capital ships so fast? I have to spam anti capital ship ships just to have a chance in the early mid game.
Nobody can take IGN seriously. The point if this update is to update the engine to 2024 so it can take Sins into the future. This isn't an $80 game or anything. It delivers what it needs to.
Lol no but it's a 60$ game. Not exactly indie priced either.
@@sionbarzad5371 launch price was $40, full price is $50.
Who cares, it's been in the top 10 global sellers on steam since launch.
That speaks more than any review score and people are obviously happy with the value for the commenter above.
About 90 percent positive reviews currently. It's a success already.
@Zade Hear me out on the AI stuff, if you have a moment.
I totally agree that in Stardock's case, it is a mean to an end. But also... somehow to me, it fits the bill so well. Especially that one research where you can turn crystal into credits (I think it is an Advent one) and you see the credits made out of crystal. It's awesome. It somehow goes along with the game well. And again, I understand where you are coming from. But still... it is weirdly fitting for Sins.
modding support atm seems to be very mediocre but who knows.. Also the fact that savegames are immediately invalid on beta patches doesn't bode well.. Not seen that often with any game...
Its like a good remake. Still unbalanced here and there tho. And lacking old diplomacy options. No diplomatic missions for example.
There is also a lack of game options to tailor a game closer to what we are looking for (cant activate/deactivate pirates or super weapons.). And random maps are not random enough.
The game do run well tho. Still is good looking and seems to be mod friendly.
21:9 user here. Zero info on support.
I’m not an RTS player like at all. But I got the first one about 10 years ago specifically for the the Star Trek Armada 3 mod. Now they’ve announced they’re doing an Armada 4 mod for Sins 2 I best start contemplating a computer upgrade.
This is a remaster not a sequel, c'mon. So the new fourth faction teased 14 years ago will be a DLC (or $100 for the premium edition)? I feel like reviewers are predisposed to hype the game because we loved the old one and a sequel took forever but most of these changes seem like a patches and updates, no new game. And pricing it for $100 premium edition to get the only actual new content at launch is just bad practice. Honestly, Stardock seems to have joined the long list of money over content game studios and I'm surprised more reviewers are not calling them out on it. I'll wait for a sale.
I hope the new faction shows the TEC that they have mastered the racsim, born in it, the TEC merely adopted the space racism.
Cons:
>Defenses are paper thin and are wiped out fast. Even the Double Agrolev tactic isn't how it used to be.
>Starbase Slots work negatively to their function. Should go back to the slot system from the 1st game for them.
>Removing fighters from Vasari and have them have Bombers only.
>Having Extractors cost Orbital Civic points which is beyond heretical here (not to mention stations seem to cost more OC points).
>Overall you can't make any planets with a ton of space stations like in the original game anymore.
>Removing trade ports from Advent and Vasari (sure it's part of the TEC mechanics, but come on...).
>The space battles are somehow smaller compared to the 1st game (that's my feeling).
>Super weapons don't snipe from one star to the other anymore no matter how far it is.
>Artifacts now only apply to single planets or capital ships instead of being global upgrades for your empire as a whole.
Pros:
>Everything else.
Still if you want to have some actual fun, then go download some mods that increase unit supply limit and cutting the orbital points for both civic and defense stations.
Adding a Con:
with the way the reasearch tree has been streamlined, and how production will lead to automatic research if missing, it feels like research is a lot less relevant.
I like your ideas for rebalancing Sins 2 back to the Sins Rebellion meta, speaking as an old Sins fan myself.
However, in the past couple weeks of playing I've come to be accustomed to the Civic points being very limited. It leads to specialized planets and more interesting late game. Upgrading planets is less of a tedious click game and more planned out.
You'll need asteroids early game, but can scrap them for Temples of Communion late game, for example.
Give the new Sins 2 meta a fair shake and you may grow to like it too, or at least hate it less, in the long term.
Happy gaming
I was shocked about only having bombers when i first tried Vasari the other day.
Actually most of what you listed as con are actually pros.
E.g. diversifying race mechanics. The Advent power of recalling the fleet is mmmuuuuuch more op than any trade advantage.
Bases are paper thin? Yeah, mebe learn to doversify your fleets and not move every ship in one big combat group but have defense and assault fleets. The point is to make you use your brain more and be more tactical.
Not enough orbital slots? But you have planet slots instead that can free up orbital slots.
Also, the Vasari are goddamn strong with the Devastators as it is. They can melt you pretty fast as is.