Here's the Metathon/Tanda split data you were after: 8 Weeks ------- 653 miles Total Distance 101:17 Total Time (hh:mm) 09:19/mile Avg Pace 07:27/mile Marathon Pace 03:15:24 Marathon Time 7 Weeks ------- 571 miles Total Distance 88:18 Total Time (hh:mm) 09:17/mile Avg Pace 07:26/mile Marathon Pace 03:14:53 Marathon Time 6 Weeks ------- 487 miles Total Distance 75:00 Total Time (hh:mm) 09:14/mile Avg Pace 07:25/mile Marathon Pace 03:14:32 Marathon Time 5 Weeks ------- 405 miles Total Distance 61:16 Total Time (hh:mm) 09:05/mile Avg Pace 07:20/mile Marathon Pace 03:12:15 Marathon Time 4 Weeks ------- 325 miles Total Distance 48:28 Total Time (hh:mm) 08:58/mile Avg Pace 07:16/mile Marathon Pace 03:10:32 Marathon Time 3 Weeks ------- 244 miles Total Distance 36:10 Total Time (hh:mm) 08:53/mile Avg Pace 07:13/mile Marathon Pace 03:09:16 Marathon Time 2 Weeks ------- 161 miles Total Distance 23:29 Total Time (hh:mm) 08:46/mile Avg Pace 07:10/mile Marathon Pace 03:08:04 Marathon Time
I like how much you like maffetone. It's better to be passionate about something, than do something you hate. I feel like maffetone is pushed for experienced runners, but it should be pushed for newer runners without a cardio base. Everyone goes out way too fast and think they need to push through the pain, when it's better to just chill and rack up the miles. We really need to get more people running!
Great update Michael and nice improvements! Glad you’ve been able to find enjoyment in slowing down your training intensity during your base building period. You have put in consistent high training volume, well done! Shaving off almost a minute per mile at the same heart rate is impressive. Re what HR to race at, one thought here is to look at a few of your long runs that included some higher intensity miles and being honest with yourself about how you felt at the different higher heart rates of for example 160-165. How controlled was your breathing, your running form, how relaxed can you run at different heart rates. Also, is that an intensity level you feel you could maintain with reasonable effort, without having to push too hard either. As you know, a marathon doesn’t start until mile 20 / 32km in. Therefore allowing your heart rate to gradually increase can be helpful as well, as the cardiac drift happens over time. Race nerves and excitement can elevate your heart rate as well, especially in the early stages of a race, just something to keep in mind. Adjusting your intensity / pace accordingly will be helpful to hold back early on, to finish strong. Enjoy your taper and have fun out there on race day! Cheers
Agree with Floris here about your HR drifting up. I've trained with MAF and ran a 2:56 with even splits, but HR started at low 140s and was high 160s by the end. Don't race by HR. Use pace. If you start of at 165 can you see yourself being able to maintain 185 at the end???
@@peterbartolomy346 isn't racing at pace contradictory to maffetone method? Also, i recall a guest on Floris video saying at Chicago that he ran on HR as the GPS does not work within the skyscrapers, so to run at pace would not make sense if your watch is not working with correct pace?
@@PoetWithPace I used the STRYD power meter which was very helpful with lack of GPS. I knew what "range" of power I would need to achieve marathon pace.... didn't use GPS at all.
@@PoetWithPace wow..lol. That's a little excessive. She probably threw away a perfectly good Garmin. You're better off hitting the lap button every mile marker and just leaving your screen on the timer mode....that was Plan B for me
Thanks for the update. I am less than 2 months into my LHR journey. It is going well and my MAF tests have proven to show progress. I will continue this for my running going forward(only about 15-20 mi a week). I am doing a variation since I am doing Aquabike too. All of my runs are at LHR but I am doing swims (without heart rate) and in cycling I do one Zone 2 longer ride, one Zone 3 longer ride, one power building interval ride, and one short Zone 2(with the dog). I did think about your Disney cruise run today because I went to Beaufort SC to run a 10k so I could post a time to get into a corral for the Disney Star Wars Half Marathon in April. I had a goal of 50 min just to give a time but since this was the first run race since knee surgery in 2018 I was not sure what would happen. I started way too fast and only got a 52:07 ... BUT ... only about 7 people came to the 10k race so for the first time in my life I won a run race. I think this was even better because the 50 would have been great but to actually be the overall winner of a 10k is awesome to me(a 52 year old man who gave up triathlon 2 years ago because of knee issues). Anyway ... great job again!
Yesterday I've watched some of the old videos you have uploaded to your channel. It's amazing, not even four years later, you look much healthier, younger and happyer! 💪 Keep it up. Wish you all the best for Huston and that you have fun running for the future... Cheers
Great review Kofuzi. Love your channel and the way you deliver your message. In terms of MAF running I am convinced this only really works if you live in a flat area. I literally have hills everywhere around me and it’s impossible and a pain to run to an MAF heart rate!
This is really awesome to see! Thanks! I just started MAF training as a New Years Resolution. It's been rough lol. I thought 9-10 min/mile was an easy effort for me, but I've got to take a ton of walking breaks just to keep my heart rate low enough. Now I'm around 14 min/mile. The funny part is that I'll probably post a 40 mile week this week and feel completely fresh (I would have been pretty beat up from that in the past). I'm registered for the Virginia marathon in May, and already am getting a bit nervous about the training based on what I'm experiencing now. My goal is 3:30 (my PR is 3:26), but I can't imagine how that's possible with MAF at this point!
Really interesting seeing your progression and seeing how you've been watching Floris and Taren too! Think you're gonna smash it in Houston. Rooting for you.
Great review! I've been using MAF since August and many of your findings line up with what I've seen for myself. For me, as a 50 year old and right at 2 years running, learning how to run easy and have a solid definition for what that means has been tremendous. I had way to many injuries the first 18 months and my doctor agreed I was trying way to hard to be a 30 year old; the body changes but the mind doesn't :-)
Hi! My experience.....Beyond the improvement on pace/bpm etc my reward has been to feel again the joy of running getting rid of all the stress of struggling for pace. Then you insert quality training sessions etc but a complete different approach for me...
@@kofuzi I was just down there last week visiting family and ran around Memorial Park. Was in the 60s so hopefully it'll stay down for a few more weeks.
I kept avoiding your Maffetone vids on my feed, as I thought slow running would be boring topic, but as always great job Ko and now you have me thinking and planning ahead to my next marathon block, Im just about to start tapering for Seville Feb 2024 lol
Glad to see your progress with MAF. I’m loving MAF so far. Increasing volume. Less soreness overall. Paces starting to come down. Can’t wait to see how you do in Huston. So excited for you. Cheers.
Good luck with the marathon! You will smash it!!! I started mine at 155bpm by the end I was at 170bpm same pace. No wall just a slightly slowed down at km 40-42.
I have enjoyed watching your low heart rate training progression and hope you reach your goal in Houston. I am considering this type of training myself. Great video!
Loving your attitude coming into Houston! And we could all learn to run slower, better, so even though I'm not doing Maffetone, I am playing around with taking my easy days much easier. Good to hear your experience!
I think the problem a lot of people have with MAF is not that it doesn’t work, it’s that it leave too much on the table e.g. event specificity, top end speed, fun. The beauty of MAF is that it’s simple and straightforward, so it takes away the stress and mental fatigue from planning and tracking progress, and by limiting the intensity it allows you to get in a lot of volume without worry of injuries. It’s kind of like how cutting added sugar is generally a good advice but not without asterisks. One would think that it’ll be a bad fit for someone who can’t help but obsess over data a little, even knowing the MAF number is arbitrary, and trying to BQ. So it’s really interesting to hear that you not only find MAF effective but also enjoyable. Is it exactly how it forces you to just chill and enjoy the run? And good luck with Houston!
Nice video! Nice shirt! Doing the Maffetone method as well and it works great for me. Did 28k today at 9.30/mile and feel better than ever. My Marathon is coming up at the beginning of March in Yancheng/China, so I still have lots of time to build my aerobic base. Good on you with the high mileage weeks. Good luck in Houston!
Best of luck in Houston! The combination of the higher mileage and the low HR training will serve you well come race day. Be smart in your taper, and remember that on race day it all comes down to just two things; execution and nutrition. Personally I think you are going to rock it. 3:05 +/- 3 is very achievable as long as you manage your pace and nutrition well.
I really like the idea of this - I think for right now this may work for me - the number seems to be so low for me at 50. I think I need a HR strap for it though as I am not sure the wrist one is 100% reliable but interesting. The way I feel with all of the issues this year is I think the majority of the first half of this year is going to be base building miles - getting some more of the fire back and slowly but surely building back. With regards to your predictor and a lot of the buildup - I think that that final one is closer to your actual fitness level - I think you last race was more of an aberration and this back to basics high volume will really pan out well. Looking forward to seeing you crush this one man. It took me around 7-8 races to figure out how to run and train the marathon for me - its a very personal thing. I feel you should have a quiet confidence on this attempt and go get it. Best of luck and will for sure be watching...
For what it's worth you seem more "at peace" with yourself and your training leading up to Houston VS when you were leading up to Chicago. Running in a way that makes you happy and gives you satisfaction might be the key to getting the most out of your potential!
Really keen to see your Houston result due to the different approach in training of quantity vs quality. Best of luck in Houston and hope you'll smash your target 👍👍
Great update! I've been interested to hear your thoughts on adding in your speed work into your low HR training plan. I've been doing the low HR training plan for 8 weeks now with respect to my running only (triathlete) and my coach is completely against it. But like you, I'm seeing my body responding in really positive ways to running more efficiently. I think a big challenge for me in the past has been I've never run my easy runs as 'easy'. Always pushing so I've never given the aerobic engine a chance to build. Now it is. Really looking forward to seeing how your race goes in two weeks. Enjoy the taper!
is your coach a running coach or a triathlon coach? i feel like this style is much more accepted in the triathlon world, but i could be way off. i've only met three or four triathletes in my life.
That seems odd that a tri coach would be against high volume aerobic work, maybe unless its a sprint distance specific plan. A 70.3 is going to be a longer duration effort than a marathon so you'd think that'd lend towards building a larger aerobic base, at least for the run. Swim and bike are easier to recover from and are less injury prone so you can get away with a larger portion of quality.
@@kofuzi, generally I would say yes my coach who is both a runner and triathlete (has done Boston Marathon and Kona Ironman multiple times) is a believer of the zone 2 or aerobic intensity training. What he is against is the thought that ALL training should be at this level and he has real problems with the arbitrary hr determination of 180 - age +/- subjective variables. He would be more inclined to be go by perceived exertions which I have a problem with because I'm like you and like numbers. Give me numbers. Analysis paralysis! I like the approach because it forces me to stay focused on the hr, not in how fast I can get the slow run done and say it was easy but be suffering for the next 3 days.
@@GarbageLegs, I would say he subscribes more to the 80/20 endurance training plan. He believes that your body needs to be trained both for the aerobic and anaerobic intensities that will be experienced. But yes, the majority of his plans are aerobic base building. It's the methodology of MAF that he has a problem with.
Good luck in Houston! Can’t wait to see results of MAF training. I’m 5 weeks in to that style of training while training for Tokyo. I’m only going to have 13 weeks of marathon training but really haven’t taken time off since running NYC Marathon and Philly Marathon a few weeks after. Not sure what to expect but MAF training definitely taught me what an easy run should be. Keep up the great work!
Seems to be pretty productive turnout so far on the low HR training. I think the main reason it works well is it puts a number on "making your easy miles easy". you're running a minute per mile faster at the same HR than where you started... awesome :)
Thanks Michael, when you first started doing videos on maf training I didn’t like the sound of it, but after applying some of the methods I think my running has improved, good luck with the Houston Marathon, have fun 👍💃🏃🏼👏🤔
Man what a journey 838 miles! I have been waiting for this summary of the low heart training. I'm considering giving it a try after my marathon in 2 weeks! about the race predicator I found all of the ones you mentioned are far from accuret ( slower than my PR) I average about 5:15 km/min and average about 83 km for the last 16 weeks. I got the most realistic time from this website -chicago endurance sports race time predicator.
Thats really impressive.. One thing I would like to know.. Do you give attention to the cadence..? When you started out on low HR what was the cadence and now, did it change substantially..?
My theory: the + results have less to do with the HR you have been running at and more to do with your increased mileage. You were able to stay healthy and less wear and tear on ur body with the increased mileage. But then again, maybe that’s the point? Also, interesting how much you improved once you added in the speed work. I think this goes to show that variety is key and you have to do SOME work at a higher heart rate. I think you have done a masterful job at mixing up your training. Will be interesting to see where you can go if you keep at this style of training over the next year.
Low HR training is supposed to facilitate an increase in mileage. I thought that was the exact point of Low HR. Volume Volume Volume and fitness will follow. Of course, don't get injured + rest tonnes too. Yes Low HR combined with some fast-paced runs is a really powerful mix for adaptations. Summary: I agree completely with what you are saying :D
I don' t necessarily disagree with the need for low heart rate running. But I have a hard time with the generic "180 - age = Target HR". In my mid-twenties when the target would have been 180 - 25 + 5 = 160 (according to the formula: +5 for training all the time without injury), That kind of HR was close to Lactate Threshold for me and my easy runs were in the 120-125 HR range. Now, at about your age, the formula yields: 180 - 40 + 5 = 145. I don't need to run quite as hard to hit 145 but that's not an easy pace. My easy runs right now are in the 130-135 HR range. It seems like a lot of people complain that the MAF target forces them to run "too slow" but in my case it would force me to run quite a bit faster than would seem prudent. Does one just need to be lucky that the MAF target is actually right for one's unique physiological make up?
if your easy runs were in the 120-125 HR range, i suspect that you were a pretty strong runner. i think maffetone is a way for people to become strong runners. for me, once 145bpm correlates to a faster speed, i'll push down that target HR for easy. it doesn't mean that maffetone doesn't work. it'd kind of be like looking at a marathon plan for beginners and intermediates that is 16 or 20 weeks long. a lot of that time is spent building up base mileage and consistency. i have (some) base mileage and consistency. so i don't need a 16 week marathon training plan. it doesn't mean the marathon training plan doesn't work. i just already have attained what a lot of that plan seeks to provide.
Good luck for Houston. I have been doing mostly low HR for a couple of months (nowhere near as much distance as you, as not training for a marathon right now), and interestingly I have done PBs for 5k, 10k and done well on a %ile basis on a recent race, without really training for those paces! I think the lower toll on the body is helping me mostly.
Good luck @Kofuzi ! To me Low HR training is about effort control, and to minimize strain on my body and ensure I have energy left at the end.. My last marathon I ran at 150-155 beats/min throughout and was never close to bonking, did almost no carbs while running (a half banana and a piece of awesome watermelon) and did a 26 min PB. (My Maff target HR is is 136). Seems around 10-15 beats higher than your gaff HR is ideal for racing, and if you have it in you to push as hard as you can the last 5k's of the marathon..
You’re gonna crush it! Since u incorporated in speed work, and a periodiized approach leading into the race, I don’t think it’s really accurate to say it’s truly MAF right? I love the idea of doing easy days easy and having a specific purpose for every workout. And the insane jump in mileage injury free is quite impressive and probably is enabled by running at MAF speeds, can’t wait to see your goals achieved! GodSpeed from a long time viewer/fan and student of yours!
Hey man, been following your progress and wish you well in Houston. Your pace progression over your mile repeats (since start of Dec) would suggest that this training is absolutely working for you. However, some of that December increase is probably due to conditioning at faster paces rather than the HR training itself as a month is probably too short to see those kind of improvements for HR training. Either way, it's working! If you kept up the base phase as a regular training block for an extended period (post Houston) then tacked on faster race-pace/HR specific stuff 8 weeks out from your next marathon then you'd likely see a major marathon PR. I agree with the general idea of Maffetone but think his is a limited translation of what HR-based running can do for you. The biggest weakness is the age-based method of calculating HR zones. This should really be done by calculating your HR reserve (max minus min HR) then calculating your zones from that (where you'd physically determine your max HR in a particular type of intense workout). A second weakness is that he doesn't incorporate anything greater than easy pace running in the base phase. I think that once you've established good weekly mileage, you can sprinkle in some regular faster stuff as part of the base. Specifically, one 'steady' 60-75 min run (for you that would be around 155bpm) and one 60 min 'marathon effort' per week (prob around 165 bpm for you). So this style of training incorporates mostly low HR (ie never exceeding lactate threshold) but more vigorous than Maffetone. It's a base training style that can be continued all year round then maybe change it up slightly 8 weeks prior to a race. It's based on the Lydiard training philosophy and was popularized on the LetsRun message boards by a guy called 'Hadd'. His training over many postings has been condensed into this PDF: www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf I followed the Hadd method over a 3 month base building block a few years and it was the best I've ever run - that is, best pace for a given effort, while absorbing lots of weekly mileage and not getting injured. The beauty of this approach is that you're running some miles at greater than easy pace (75 min 155bpm; 60 min 165bpm) each week but it's not enough to get you close to overtraining so you can absorb larger amounts of miles and hopefully get super strong in the process. He also incorporated 'strides' at the end of at least two easy runs per week. These are sets of 10 sec sprints where your HR never gets over lactate threshold (as 10 sec isn't long enough) and importantly, the high pace works to greatly improve running economy, which is especially important as you're running the majority of your weekly miles at a slow pace. I've been away from running for a few years and now intend to use the Hadd method to get back running efficiently and hopefully without injury. It could be something that could work for you now that you're stronger from your Maffetone experience. One last comment - You may have noticed that towards then end of a long run (ie 2 h or more) your HR creeps up gradually, even though your perceived effort remains the same. This is a well-known phenomenon and is due to less efficient heat dissipation towards the end of longer sessions. The higher HR doesn't mean your heart is actually working harder and you can effectively increase the window of your marathon HR zone as the race progresses due to this effect. That is, marathon HR might be 165bpm starting out but would drift up to 170bpm towards the end of the race as you heat up. You probably know about this 'HR drift' effect but I thought I'd point if out anyway just in case. www.polar.com/blog/cardiac-drift-effect-on-training/ Good luck in Houston!
I agree that the MP “easiness” is due to running fast, not maffetone. But in the finishing stages of a marathon training block, I’m not looking to build cardiac and low twitch strength. I have hat I have. I now just have gone that base of miles into a fine edge. I like that maffetone keeps it only easy for a long time, for a variety of reasons. It might not be the most theoretically effective, but from a practical perspective, I think it may be more empirically effective.
@@kofuzi I hear ya. Have a read of that Hadd link though...you may find something useful in there for the next training cycle. I'm looking forward to getting back into that training style myself. Good luck in Houston.
I think MAF training is interesting but I am unconvinced by the "universality" of 180-Age. I am also looking for a sub 3 in my next marathon (although have done a lot quicker some years ago) but my MAFF HR of 127 is actually, for me, more like steady pace and I can quite "happily" bang out sub 8 miles (and maybe even down to 7:30) at or under this HR. At 9:00 pace it would not be much over 100. The big difference however is that my max HR rarely gets over 160 these days. It used to get into the 190s in my mid to late 20s. So I see when you are at MP pace you are working 10 bpm over my Max. Even accounting for our age differences all my HR values are just a lot lower than you. I tend to view my "MAF" HR more like 115-120.
it sounds like you are a very experienced runner who has achieved already the results that maffetone seeks to provide. in other words, you are saying (and i paraphrase and oversimplify for effect and i do not intend to insult or denigrade), "i am exceptional, and because this general rule does not account for my exceptionality, it must therefore be incorrect" whereas i am saying, "i am the paradigmatic ordinary person, and this general rule seems to be working, generally, for me."
@@kofuzi I am certainly not an "exceptional" runner but I take your point that my long experience as a runner may make me an exception or more precisely an outlier to this general formulae. Whatever the key to running is finding a way that works best for you and it looks like you have. I looked up those same predictors and they aren't much different for me - in fact currently the "wrong" side of sub 3! Basically we are taking a similar approach. Most of my mileage is "aerobic" regardless of what HR number we are seeing.
Hey Michael. Another update on my low HRZ training, and I'm really surprised at how our journeys have paralleled. As your know, I ran Chicago Marathon in 2:53, had two weeks off from running, and have been building up mileage from there. This week I'm on track to do 150 km's (93 miles), my biggest mileage ever, with 138 km's (85 miles) last week, my most miles ever run at the time, and the week before 131 km's (81 miles), and again the most miles I've ever run in a week. Since Chicago I've now run 1,039 km's (645 miles), so I've done less miles than you overall. I should reach my first ever 100 mile week in 3 weeks (Adaption week next with a volume drop of 40%, then a build again to this weeks volume (150 km's or 93 miles) and then hopefully my first every 100 mile week. I'm not doing Maffetone, but I am running everything in HRZ 2, and I have 7 custom zones that my Coach Eric Orton has predetermined from a 1 mile and a 20 minute as fast as you can Tests. My first HRZ 2 workout in this block (HRZ 2 is 132-142 bpm) was at a 5:17 min/km pace @ 144 bpm average, and then today (Week 11, 4:41 min/km @ 139 bpm average for 21.76 km's (13.5 miles). Every workout has targeted HRZ 2, and I'm feeling amazing running 7 days a week with no rest days. I am constantly surprised by how fresh my legs feel, even after 48 days straight of running with no days off. I'll probably start introducing speed workouts within the next 3 weeks, as I have 15 weeks until London Marathon. Best of luck with Houston. And in regards to the calculators, I always ignore them and shoot for my goal:)
@@user-rl3ef4ju9k Sorry Arttu, the times were missing for some reason. I've updated the above comment, but the first weeks runs averaged a 5:17 min/km pace.
I also had problems to keep my MAF HR and was often too high (mostly because of the elevation gain on my track and the delay on the HR response) . I recently bought the Stryd footpod to be able to stay below the max MAF HR and it's working great. If I keep my power level,no matter if going up or downhill, my HR rarely goes to high.
Hi, Im so pleased you stuck with it. Please taper properly so your fresh as a daisy on the start line and all those miles of training will kick in on the day and make it feel almost too easy. Just try not to go off too fast at the start cos the last 10km will likely still be hard but I'm sure you are going to feel awesome on the day and hopefully break that 3 hours..
That's cool that your not over focused on the time.If your anything like I was then you will be amazed at how easy it feels at least till halfway. The second half gradually got harder and the last 10 and 5kms were pretty hard work even though I was able to run them faster than the rest of the race but I always knew that I had the miles in the bank so never panicked and just dug in. I never broke into heavy breathing once, it was just my legs started burning by the end cos my longest training run was around 35km at 4.45km pace and race pace was more around 4.20km so I guess that's pretty normal due to the increase in distance and pace for the actual race. Anyway, I would have been happy with a sub 3:30.00 but felt so good on the day I finished in 3:03:30 so probably the same kind of area your going to be. I was taking a saltstick electrolyte capsule and an energy gel every half an hour too which I think helped keep my energy levels up or at the very least maybe worked as a placebo. Long message anyway, just want to wish you good luck and an enjoyable race
Thanks for the much anticipated update Mike. As usual... a lot of good honest info there. I have been inspired to try out low HR training as well. Started in mid Dec. 2019... after coming off a 2 weeks break from a marathon end of Nov 2019. As I’m doing all Low HR, while easing back into running again... my VO2 max according to my garmin has been steadily declining. Understandable since I did no running for 2 weeks, and still slowly easing back to my last training mileage. Am wondering if you had experienced that or not? In any case... all the best for Houston. Don’t overthink it... just enjoy it dude. The hay is in the barn!!! 😊 Cheers! 🍻
Thank you so much for your enthusiasm and for the advices you give, very helpful! I am about to start the Maf training method, and obviously I wanna get a running watch, essential to run slow, the problem is that I can’t really decide which one…I don’t wanna spend too much but I would say with a strap no more than 300 euros…any suggestions? I was going for the polar pacer pro with the straps…but I am not sure about the gps tracking accuracy in there…I have seen your videos regarding that already…can you help me please? Thank you again
i'll be smuggling in the gopro. i don't like the insta360 go. it's too small. i never know if i'm capturing 120 fps or 30 fps. and that's a problem for me.
I'm about 2 months in to maffetone training and just looked at metathon for the first time. It predicts me to be 30 minutes slower than 8 weeks ago. I'm not planning to run a marathon anytime soon, so just an interesting result.
Enjoy watching your progression. I can feel the passion for the numbers :D However, I am still not convinced on the MAF zones bit ;) I will still continue to use the Max HR test via treadmill to workout my HR zones. For those curious what Treadmill Protocol I use, Requirements: HR monitor, Treadmill that can go up to 18 or 20 kph with 0.5 kph incremental increase (maybe 15 kph with 1 kph increase is fine for those who are untrained athletes) Protocol: 15-20 mins warm-up at and easy all-day pace Start at 6 kph (or whatever is your easy all-day pace is above as it could be higher or lower than 6 kph) Every 15 seconds increase your speed by 0.5 (equivalent to 1 kph increase per 30 sec) Repeat until you reach your failure point, or until the max speed of the treadmill. If you reach the max speed of your treadmill then try to hold this for as long as you can to induce your max heart rate. If you use a different increase in speed for the test just make sure to do the same for your next test onwards to make the results comparable. Speed Ramp up variations don't matter as long as you can reach your max in the end without it taking too long that your muscles fatigue before your heart does. Bonus if you finish your test below the max speed of your treadmill. You can use the final speed before failure as sprint intervals for some 30s on / 30 s off interval training with 30 seconds at a sprint pace and 30 seconds at Zone 1 pace. For the speed work.
what i like about maffetone is that it avoids things like failure point or max speed. they have the illusion of objectivity but i think are quite malleable. they're not so malleable that it would bother me, but i think they are malleable enough that it should bother someone who rejects maffetone for a treadmill protocol and running on percentages of a max HR. but ultimately, it gives definition to levels of effort that adapt over time as the individual progresses, and to me, that is the point.
It's going to be really interesting to see how you do! The common sentiment is that it takes the body about 6 weeks to start to adapt to new physiological stimulus, so you're well past that.
I struggle to see why you are so positive about Maff. As far as I can see THE result you have at this moment is that you have become a more efficient runner at heartrate 140-145. But then again, if you have spent 800 miles in that range, it would have been weird if there had not been an improvement. I do realise that it must be a very pleasant experience to be able to run 11 miles per week more than before. I wish you all the luck in Houston! (based on 1.27 my prediction is 3:06..)
After seeing your last couple of months worth of work with Maffetone it’s not realistic to think you can get close to 3 hours in the marathon with such a short buildup since your last race. Maffetone doesn’t seem at all different from a normal training plan with speed other than the fact that you completely removed the speed work. Then when you finally added some speed in December it wasn’t enough speed to really get to a 3 hour flat level. You really need more time to build up for the marathon if you want to get a pr. I would say if you stick with Maffetone you’ll need 5 months of work before a race. You can use Maffetone as base building but you won’t get far with just low heat rate work. If you run slow, then you’ll get good at running slow. Triathlon Taren is a long distance athlete who is training to race for 4 - 9 hours in a half and full Ironman. Maffetone works better in that instance because you run slower in the race than what your normal marathon pace would be. So speedwork is not as important but he still does speed work. What your training is severely lacking is a tempo run. Your long 20 mile runs with marathon pace work is perfect. But without tempo work, and not just more marathon pace running but real tempo running at faster than half marathon pace for consecutive miles will really benefit you. This will improve your vo2 max and improve your aerobic capacity. I doubt you will be able to come close to 3 hours at Boston if you stick with Maffetone. Also considering that there are only 13 weeks to go after Houston until the race and you will be taking some time off to recover from the Houston marathon. That really only leaves 9-10 weeks of training before you taper again. I would recommend you take this next training block to really build up a good base and use it as a spring board for your next race. Realistically it’s not possible to do another build up phase and get all the speedwork and long runs needed to go sub 3 on such a hard course. The tempo run starting from even 20 minutes of a solid run pace of 6:25 to 6:10 will do wonders. You’ll need to work up to at least 6 miles at that pace with the goal of 8 miles. With a 2-3 mile warm up and a 2 mile cool down. You’ll also need mile intervals like you’ve done but at much faster than marathon pace intervals. Think about, how much benefit can running at a pace that you can hold for 26 miles be when you do it 3-5 times? It’s not very taxing to run at that pace for small intervals. I hope you get to Boston fit and ready to use it as a springboard for your next race.
i think we're pretty aligned here. i love the 20 mile run with marathon pace work. i'd also like to put in some long tempos, over 5 miles fo work, as you suggested. except as a way of reintroducing speedwork after more maffetone base building, i don't anticipate doing a lot of mile repeats. i think even that interval may be too short.
Since I started swimming open water 2-3 times a week my avg running HR went down by 25-30 which is amazing. If you want to lower it I recommend swimming, particularly open water.
i tend to believe the tanda model, as it takes age and paces into account. but then again, i think the 538 and RW models likely also take pace into account but in a way that is a bit more opaque, like as assumptions based on mileage and race times
Nice! With that kind of base mileage alone, it seems your running strength is at a very high level, albeit maybe at expense of leg turnover. In that regard, I was wondering if strides at end of runs could solve that issue for people who are like you just starting out with the Maffatone method. The way these were described to me were 50-80m controlled sprints with plenty of rest in between not meant for cardio, but strictly for leg tturnover.at the very least, you won't have any issues with the distance, which is a nice boat to be in!
Thank you for the updates, as well as all of the other great content you produce. From what I'm getting from your videos, Maffetone works best for high mileage/every day runners because it "puts a lid" on the easy days, which allows you to run more miles, causing overall improvement. Would low heart rate training be beneficial for low-mileage runner that only run 3 or 4 days a week?
Looking very promising. Perhaps an average of the 4 predictors? I'm very keen on running to HR but at 52 my MAF be is only 133, and I simply don't think I can run/jog at that low intensity. I would need to try it to see. But seeing as my HR is usually in the 150-160/170 even range I'm sure I'll be walking for weeks!
I know there is a lot of rain even deep until Thursday before the marathon. it'll be humid for sure, it may just come down to hydration and muscle strength vs lungs and legs.
Great video and timely for me as I’m just starting a MAF block for the marathon I’m running in April. I knocked out a 9 miler at the weekend and running at the slower speed to keep my heart rate down has battered my calves. Can I ask if you found the same when you first started out? Keep up the great work and good luck from the UK.
Thanks for the reply, I suppose I meant aches in general but perhaps I should have said that ha! I think running slower is highlighting my form issues but I might be left of the middle?!Thanks again for the video it really came at the right time as I’m 4 runs in to this maf block and I’m determined to stick with it!
Maybe I missed something. You refer to "my maffetone speedwork". Was this speedwork part of some maffetone plan? How and where did you come up with the idea to do the specific speed training workouts you did?
Hi. Great report! I really like seeing such a serious analysis of MAF implementation. So, do I understand well that you use your calculated aerobic heart rate (180-40+5=145) as max and that you average heart rate is about 4 bpm below that: about 141, in your case?
Thanks so much for doing this Maffetone summary! I looks like you have made tremendously strides. I am seriously considering using this methodology for one of my upcoming training blocks. I have watched a number of the Floris Gierman videos too. I notice that you used a Polar app to track your mileage. Did you mainly use a chest strap with an app such as Strava or mainly the Polar device with an optical HR sensor?
my chest strap and arm sensors were nearly identical and i personally consider them interchangeable. i've also tried numerous wrist optical sensors and i consider them all equally unreliable for running
Awesome journey. Thanks for sharing. I think i need to be a bit fitter to try low heart rate training. Good luck in Houston. Off topic: Did you see the launch of the Insta360 R. Looks pretty dope if you ask me.
What are your thoughts on the influence of temperature on your HR? My HR went way down in the past two months on my easy runs for similar paces (i.e. my pace is faster for HR in the same 135-145 range) because temperature in my corner of the world went from 70-80F down to 45-55F.
My 2 cents: you should go out at 3:02 pace. If your fitness is better than expected, you can negative split the back half and have a shot at going sub-3.
I have a question about Maffetone. I purchased the book The Maffetone Method and understand the basics. What I don't understand is how to start. How did you decide how many miles or how much time to run when you started....and how did you decide when to do more?
Good Job! You may need to be with us in Corall A for your speed and stamina. Make sure to bring extra salt tabs or electrolytes. It's alleged to be low 50's at the start but humidity/dew point will be a factor. Are you going to the expo friday or saturday?
Here's the Metathon/Tanda split data you were after:
8 Weeks
-------
653 miles Total Distance
101:17 Total Time (hh:mm)
09:19/mile Avg Pace
07:27/mile Marathon Pace
03:15:24 Marathon Time
7 Weeks
-------
571 miles Total Distance
88:18 Total Time (hh:mm)
09:17/mile Avg Pace
07:26/mile Marathon Pace
03:14:53 Marathon Time
6 Weeks
-------
487 miles Total Distance
75:00 Total Time (hh:mm)
09:14/mile Avg Pace
07:25/mile Marathon Pace
03:14:32 Marathon Time
5 Weeks
-------
405 miles Total Distance
61:16 Total Time (hh:mm)
09:05/mile Avg Pace
07:20/mile Marathon Pace
03:12:15 Marathon Time
4 Weeks
-------
325 miles Total Distance
48:28 Total Time (hh:mm)
08:58/mile Avg Pace
07:16/mile Marathon Pace
03:10:32 Marathon Time
3 Weeks
-------
244 miles Total Distance
36:10 Total Time (hh:mm)
08:53/mile Avg Pace
07:13/mile Marathon Pace
03:09:16 Marathon Time
2 Weeks
-------
161 miles Total Distance
23:29 Total Time (hh:mm)
08:46/mile Avg Pace
07:10/mile Marathon Pace
03:08:04 Marathon Time
how did you do that?
@@kofuzi I built a spreadsheet to do it because Metathon couldn't.
I like how much you like maffetone. It's better to be passionate about something, than do something you hate. I feel like maffetone is pushed for experienced runners, but it should be pushed for newer runners without a cardio base. Everyone goes out way too fast and think they need to push through the pain, when it's better to just chill and rack up the miles. We really need to get more people running!
i like it now. i hated it at first. i detested it for a long time. but now i'm running with lightness. it's been a journey.
Great update Michael and nice improvements! Glad you’ve been able to find enjoyment in slowing down your training intensity during your base building period. You have put in consistent high training volume, well done! Shaving off almost a minute per mile at the same heart rate is impressive. Re what HR to race at, one thought here is to look at a few of your long runs that included some higher intensity miles and being honest with yourself about how you felt at the different higher heart rates of for example 160-165. How controlled was your breathing, your running form, how relaxed can you run at different heart rates. Also, is that an intensity level you feel you could maintain with reasonable effort, without having to push too hard either.
As you know, a marathon doesn’t start until mile 20 / 32km in. Therefore allowing your heart rate to gradually increase can be helpful as well, as the cardiac drift happens over time.
Race nerves and excitement can elevate your heart rate as well, especially in the early stages of a race, just something to keep in mind. Adjusting your intensity / pace accordingly will be helpful to hold back early on, to finish strong.
Enjoy your taper and have fun out there on race day! Cheers
Agree with Floris here about your HR drifting up. I've trained with MAF and ran a 2:56 with even splits, but HR started at low 140s and was high 160s by the end. Don't race by HR. Use pace. If you start of at 165 can you see yourself being able to maintain 185 at the end???
@@peterbartolomy346 isn't racing at pace contradictory to maffetone method? Also, i recall a guest on Floris video saying at Chicago that he ran on HR as the GPS does not work within the skyscrapers, so to run at pace would not make sense if your watch is not working with correct pace?
@@PoetWithPace I used the STRYD power meter which was very helpful with lack of GPS. I knew what "range" of power I would need to achieve marathon pace.... didn't use GPS at all.
@@cebukid70 good to hear. I heard of one runner throwing away her Garmin at mile 12 during Chicago
@@PoetWithPace wow..lol. That's a little excessive. She probably threw away a perfectly good Garmin. You're better off hitting the lap button every mile marker and just leaving your screen on the timer mode....that was Plan B for me
Thanks for the update. I am less than 2 months into my LHR journey. It is going well and my MAF tests have proven to show progress. I will continue this for my running going forward(only about 15-20 mi a week). I am doing a variation since I am doing Aquabike too. All of my runs are at LHR but I am doing swims (without heart rate) and in cycling I do one Zone 2 longer ride, one Zone 3 longer ride, one power building interval ride, and one short Zone 2(with the dog). I did think about your Disney cruise run today because I went to Beaufort SC to run a 10k so I could post a time to get into a corral for the Disney Star Wars Half Marathon in April. I had a goal of 50 min just to give a time but since this was the first run race since knee surgery in 2018 I was not sure what would happen. I started way too fast and only got a 52:07 ... BUT ... only about 7 people came to the 10k race so for the first time in my life I won a run race. I think this was even better because the 50 would have been great but to actually be the overall winner of a 10k is awesome to me(a 52 year old man who gave up triathlon 2 years ago because of knee issues). Anyway ... great job again!
Yesterday I've watched some of the old videos you have uploaded to your channel.
It's amazing, not even four years later, you look much healthier, younger and happyer! 💪
Keep it up.
Wish you all the best for Huston and that you have fun running for the future... Cheers
Thanks so much!
Love your review and your shirt "non elite" :-)
thanks! it usually gets a lot of weird looks
@@kofuzi brilliant i love it too, all the best for Houston (2:59) iam doing LHR as well and i feel great
Great review Kofuzi. Love your channel and the way you deliver your message. In terms of MAF running I am convinced this only really works if you live in a flat area. I literally have hills everywhere around me and it’s impossible and a pain to run to an MAF heart rate!
I practice it even when climbing mountains. I just walk (even slowly) when climbing
I started using MAF this week! Thanks for the info and motivation, it’s great to finish each training feeling fresh
This is really awesome to see! Thanks! I just started MAF training as a New Years Resolution. It's been rough lol. I thought 9-10 min/mile was an easy effort for me, but I've got to take a ton of walking breaks just to keep my heart rate low enough. Now I'm around 14 min/mile. The funny part is that I'll probably post a 40 mile week this week and feel completely fresh (I would have been pretty beat up from that in the past). I'm registered for the Virginia marathon in May, and already am getting a bit nervous about the training based on what I'm experiencing now. My goal is 3:30 (my PR is 3:26), but I can't imagine how that's possible with MAF at this point!
hang in there. it's so rough at the outset. it gets better.
make sure you've got good HR monitoring equipment. and stick with it.
@@kofuzi Thanks! Yeah I believe in it. I also started a little before the 1st to make sure all the HR stuff is worked out and sync'd up and stuff.
Really interesting seeing your progression and seeing how you've been watching Floris and Taren too! Think you're gonna smash it in Houston. Rooting for you.
they've been very helpful to watch
Great review! I've been using MAF since August and many of your findings line up with what I've seen for myself. For me, as a 50 year old and right at 2 years running, learning how to run easy and have a solid definition for what that means has been tremendous. I had way to many injuries the first 18 months and my doctor agreed I was trying way to hard to be a 30 year old; the body changes but the mind doesn't :-)
low hr training definitely gives you lots of happy miles
BRO! I thought you were in your twenties hahaha. MAD!
haha glad I'm not the only one.
Asian don’t raisin, and black don’t crack.
Yep I though early 30s. Crazy
Hi! My experience.....Beyond the improvement on pace/bpm etc my reward has been to feel again the joy of running getting rid of all the stress of struggling for pace. Then you insert quality training sessions etc but a complete different approach for me...
after the initial but substantial frustration of learning to run this way, i will agree that running has been very enjoyable
Hector Great reply! Brought me back to reality and why I’m actually doing all of this running in a very Zen way! 👍
Looking forward to seeing your results! I hope the weather is good!
me too! thanks!
@@kofuzi I was just down there last week visiting family and ran around Memorial Park. Was in the 60s so hopefully it'll stay down for a few more weeks.
I kept avoiding your Maffetone vids on my feed, as I thought slow running would be boring topic, but as always great job Ko and now you have me thinking and planning ahead to my next marathon block, Im just about to start tapering for Seville Feb 2024 lol
Good luck in Seville!
Glad to see your progress with MAF. I’m loving MAF so far. Increasing volume. Less soreness overall. Paces starting to come down. Can’t wait to see how you do in Huston. So excited for you. Cheers.
i'm excited too.
I was waiting for this update. Thanks Mike
i hope you enjoy the video
Good luck with the marathon! You will smash it!!! I started mine at 155bpm by the end I was at 170bpm same pace. No wall just a slightly slowed down at km 40-42.
Great to hear!
I have trained based on HR for years and it's a simple thing that has worked for me. You will do great @ Houston!
That’s awesome!
I have enjoyed watching your low heart rate training progression and hope you reach your goal in Houston. I am considering this type of training myself. Great video!
Loving your attitude coming into Houston! And we could all learn to run slower, better, so even though I'm not doing Maffetone, I am playing around with taking my easy days much easier. Good to hear your experience!
Thanks for watching!
I think the problem a lot of people have with MAF is not that it doesn’t work, it’s that it leave too much on the table e.g. event specificity, top end speed, fun.
The beauty of MAF is that it’s simple and straightforward, so it takes away the stress and mental fatigue from planning and tracking progress, and by limiting the intensity it allows you to get in a lot of volume without worry of injuries. It’s kind of like how cutting added sugar is generally a good advice but not without asterisks.
One would think that it’ll be a bad fit for someone who can’t help but obsess over data a little, even knowing the MAF number is arbitrary, and trying to BQ. So it’s really interesting to hear that you not only find MAF effective but also enjoyable. Is it exactly how it forces you to just chill and enjoy the run?
And good luck with Houston!
Perhaps
Nice video! Nice shirt! Doing the Maffetone method as well and it works great for me. Did 28k today at 9.30/mile and feel better than ever. My Marathon is coming up at the beginning of March in Yancheng/China, so I still have lots of time to build my aerobic base. Good on you with the high mileage weeks. Good luck in Houston!
Rooting for you brother
thank so much! i appreciate that.
Well done! All the best for Houston! I hope you get the RW prediction!
Wouldn’t that be great!
Thank you. Good luck in Houston!
thanks!
I really enjoyed this video. I’m also excited for you. You’ve got this!
I’m glad you enjoyed!
Best of luck in Houston! The combination of the higher mileage and the low HR training will serve you well come race day. Be smart in your taper, and remember that on race day it all comes down to just two things; execution and nutrition. Personally I think you are going to rock it. 3:05 +/- 3 is very achievable as long as you manage your pace and nutrition well.
I really like the idea of this - I think for right now this may work for me - the number seems to be so low for me at 50. I think I need a HR strap for it though as I am not sure the wrist one is 100% reliable but interesting. The way I feel with all of the issues this year is I think the majority of the first half of this year is going to be base building miles - getting some more of the fire back and slowly but surely building back.
With regards to your predictor and a lot of the buildup - I think that that final one is closer to your actual fitness level - I think you last race was more of an aberration and this back to basics high volume will really pan out well. Looking forward to seeing you crush this one man. It took me around 7-8 races to figure out how to run and train the marathon for me - its a very personal thing. I feel you should have a quiet confidence on this attempt and go get it. Best of luck and will for sure be watching...
Kurt Steege wrist is useless get a proper one.
Thanks Michael! Hope all goes well for you in Houston!
thanks, Eric!
For what it's worth you seem more "at peace" with yourself and your training leading up to Houston VS when you were leading up to Chicago. Running in a way that makes you happy and gives you satisfaction might be the key to getting the most out of your potential!
Really keen to see your Houston result due to the different approach in training of quantity vs quality. Best of luck in Houston and hope you'll smash your target 👍👍
Great update! I've been interested to hear your thoughts on adding in your speed work into your low HR training plan. I've been doing the low HR training plan for 8 weeks now with respect to my running only (triathlete) and my coach is completely against it. But like you, I'm seeing my body responding in really positive ways to running more efficiently. I think a big challenge for me in the past has been I've never run my easy runs as 'easy'. Always pushing so I've never given the aerobic engine a chance to build. Now it is. Really looking forward to seeing how your race goes in two weeks. Enjoy the taper!
is your coach a running coach or a triathlon coach? i feel like this style is much more accepted in the triathlon world, but i could be way off. i've only met three or four triathletes in my life.
That seems odd that a tri coach would be against high volume aerobic work, maybe unless its a sprint distance specific plan. A 70.3 is going to be a longer duration effort than a marathon so you'd think that'd lend towards building a larger aerobic base, at least for the run. Swim and bike are easier to recover from and are less injury prone so you can get away with a larger portion of quality.
Where can I get this methafone training plan
@@kofuzi, generally I would say yes my coach who is both a runner and triathlete (has done Boston Marathon and Kona Ironman multiple times) is a believer of the zone 2 or aerobic intensity training. What he is against is the thought that ALL training should be at this level and he has real problems with the arbitrary hr determination of 180 - age +/- subjective variables. He would be more inclined to be go by perceived exertions which I have a problem with because I'm like you and like numbers. Give me numbers. Analysis paralysis!
I like the approach because it forces me to stay focused on the hr, not in how fast I can get the slow run done and say it was easy but be suffering for the next 3 days.
@@GarbageLegs, I would say he subscribes more to the 80/20 endurance training plan. He believes that your body needs to be trained both for the aerobic and anaerobic intensities that will be experienced. But yes, the majority of his plans are aerobic base building. It's the methodology of MAF that he has a problem with.
Good luck in Houston! Can’t wait to see results of MAF training. I’m 5 weeks in to that style of training while training for Tokyo. I’m only going to have 13 weeks of marathon training but really haven’t taken time off since running NYC Marathon and Philly Marathon a few weeks after. Not sure what to expect but MAF training definitely taught me what an easy run should be. Keep up the great work!
i came to this right off of the chicago marathon. it wasn't ideal, but i wasn't going to wait for an ideal time
Looking forward to seeing your great results in Houston.
It’ll be an interesting day
Seems to be pretty productive turnout so far on the low HR training. I think the main reason it works well is it puts a number on "making your easy miles easy". you're running a minute per mile faster at the same HR than where you started... awesome :)
the progress seemed nonexistent and then suddenly i saw results. it's been a weird ride.
Thanks Michael, when you first started doing videos on maf training I didn’t like the sound of it, but after applying some of the methods I think my running has improved, good luck with the Houston Marathon, have fun 👍💃🏃🏼👏🤔
no one likes the sound of it at first.
i'm glad you've found that it's working for you
Always great info! Always love your delivery! Thank You 🙏!
thanks for watching!
Man what a journey 838 miles! I have been waiting for this summary of the low heart training. I'm considering giving it a try after my marathon in 2 weeks! about the race predicator I found all of the ones you mentioned are far from accuret ( slower than my PR) I average about 5:15 km/min and average about 83 km for the last 16 weeks. I got the most realistic time from this website -chicago endurance sports race time predicator.
so encouraging. thank you!!
Thats really impressive.. One thing I would like to know.. Do you give attention to the cadence..? When you started out on low HR what was the cadence and now, did it change substantially..?
My theory: the + results have less to do with the HR you have been running at and more to do with your increased mileage. You were able to stay healthy and less wear and tear on ur body with the increased mileage. But then again, maybe that’s the point? Also, interesting how much you improved once you added in the speed work. I think this goes to show that variety is key and you have to do SOME work at a higher heart rate. I think you have done a masterful job at mixing up your training. Will be interesting to see where you can go if you keep at this style of training over the next year.
i've long felt that the marathon is a mileage game. i've run more than ever and feel better than ever. and i think that's worth a lot.
I totally agree.
Low HR training is supposed to facilitate an increase in mileage.
I thought that was the exact point of Low HR.
Volume Volume Volume and fitness will follow.
Of course, don't get injured + rest tonnes too.
Yes Low HR combined with some fast-paced runs is a really powerful mix for adaptations.
Summary: I agree completely with what you are saying :D
Randummm people as negative as you really shouldn’t comment. Just helps no one.
I don' t necessarily disagree with the need for low heart rate running. But I have a hard time with the generic "180 - age = Target HR".
In my mid-twenties when the target would have been 180 - 25 + 5 = 160 (according to the formula: +5 for training all the time without injury), That kind of HR was close to Lactate Threshold for me and my easy runs were in the 120-125 HR range.
Now, at about your age, the formula yields: 180 - 40 + 5 = 145. I don't need to run quite as hard to hit 145 but that's not an easy pace. My easy runs right now are in the 130-135 HR range.
It seems like a lot of people complain that the MAF target forces them to run "too slow" but in my case it would force me to run quite a bit faster than would seem prudent. Does one just need to be lucky that the MAF target is actually right for one's unique physiological make up?
if your easy runs were in the 120-125 HR range, i suspect that you were a pretty strong runner.
i think maffetone is a way for people to become strong runners. for me, once 145bpm correlates to a faster speed, i'll push down that target HR for easy. it doesn't mean that maffetone doesn't work.
it'd kind of be like looking at a marathon plan for beginners and intermediates that is 16 or 20 weeks long. a lot of that time is spent building up base mileage and consistency. i have (some) base mileage and consistency. so i don't need a 16 week marathon training plan. it doesn't mean the marathon training plan doesn't work. i just already have attained what a lot of that plan seeks to provide.
Good luck for Houston. I have been doing mostly low HR for a couple of months (nowhere near as much distance as you, as not training for a marathon right now), and interestingly I have done PBs for 5k, 10k and done well on a %ile basis on a recent race, without really training for those paces! I think the lower toll on the body is helping me mostly.
"the number is gonna be, what the number's gonna be"
tahnks for this video and looking forward to hearing how the race went
Top notch analysis as always 👊 enjoy the taper 🧘🏻♂️
thanks so much!
congrats on your progress and good luck for your race!
thank you!
just enjoy the race. goodluck kofuzi!
Good luck @Kofuzi ! To me Low HR training is about effort control, and to minimize strain on my body and ensure I have energy left at the end.. My last marathon I ran at 150-155 beats/min throughout and was never close to bonking, did almost no carbs while running (a half banana and a piece of awesome watermelon) and did a 26 min PB. (My Maff target HR is is 136). Seems around 10-15 beats higher than your gaff HR is ideal for racing, and if you have it in you to push as hard as you can the last 5k's of the marathon..
awesome video, learned a lot
You’re gonna crush it! Since u incorporated in speed work, and a periodiized approach leading into the race, I don’t think it’s really accurate to say it’s truly MAF right? I love the idea of doing easy days easy and having a specific purpose for every workout. And the insane jump in mileage injury free is quite impressive and probably is enabled by running at MAF speeds, can’t wait to see your goals achieved! GodSpeed from a long time viewer/fan and student of yours!
Hey man, been following your progress and wish you well in Houston. Your pace progression over your mile repeats (since start of Dec) would suggest that this training is absolutely working for you. However, some of that December increase is probably due to conditioning at faster paces rather than the HR training itself as a month is probably too short to see those kind of improvements for HR training. Either way, it's working! If you kept up the base phase as a regular training block for an extended period (post Houston) then tacked on faster race-pace/HR specific stuff 8 weeks out from your next marathon then you'd likely see a major marathon PR.
I agree with the general idea of Maffetone but think his is a limited translation of what HR-based running can do for you. The biggest weakness is the age-based method of calculating HR zones. This should really be done by calculating your HR reserve (max minus min HR) then calculating your zones from that (where you'd physically determine your max HR in a particular type of intense workout). A second weakness is that he doesn't incorporate anything greater than easy pace running in the base phase. I think that once you've established good weekly mileage, you can sprinkle in some regular faster stuff as part of the base. Specifically, one 'steady' 60-75 min run (for you that would be around 155bpm) and one 60 min 'marathon effort' per week (prob around 165 bpm for you).
So this style of training incorporates mostly low HR (ie never exceeding lactate threshold) but more vigorous than Maffetone. It's a base training style that can be continued all year round then maybe change it up slightly 8 weeks prior to a race. It's based on the Lydiard training philosophy and was popularized on the LetsRun message boards by a guy called 'Hadd'. His training over many postings has been condensed into this PDF: www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf
I followed the Hadd method over a 3 month base building block a few years and it was the best I've ever run - that is, best pace for a given effort, while absorbing lots of weekly mileage and not getting injured. The beauty of this approach is that you're running some miles at greater than easy pace (75 min 155bpm; 60 min 165bpm) each week but it's not enough to get you close to overtraining so you can absorb larger amounts of miles and hopefully get super strong in the process. He also incorporated 'strides' at the end of at least two easy runs per week. These are sets of 10 sec sprints where your HR never gets over lactate threshold (as 10 sec isn't long enough) and importantly, the high pace works to greatly improve running economy, which is especially important as you're running the majority of your weekly miles at a slow pace. I've been away from running for a few years and now intend to use the Hadd method to get back running efficiently and hopefully without injury. It could be something that could work for you now that you're stronger from your Maffetone experience.
One last comment - You may have noticed that towards then end of a long run (ie 2 h or more) your HR creeps up gradually, even though your perceived effort remains the same. This is a well-known phenomenon and is due to less efficient heat dissipation towards the end of longer sessions. The higher HR doesn't mean your heart is actually working harder and you can effectively increase the window of your marathon HR zone as the race progresses due to this effect. That is, marathon HR might be 165bpm starting out but would drift up to 170bpm towards the end of the race as you heat up. You probably know about this 'HR drift' effect but I thought I'd point if out anyway just in case. www.polar.com/blog/cardiac-drift-effect-on-training/
Good luck in Houston!
I agree that the MP “easiness” is due to running fast, not maffetone. But in the finishing stages of a marathon training block, I’m not looking to build cardiac and low twitch strength. I have hat I have. I now just have gone that base of miles into a fine edge.
I like that maffetone keeps it only easy for a long time, for a variety of reasons. It might not be the most theoretically effective, but from a practical perspective, I think it may be more empirically effective.
@@kofuzi I hear ya. Have a read of that Hadd link though...you may find something useful in there for the next training cycle. I'm looking forward to getting back into that training style myself. Good luck in Houston.
I think MAF training is interesting but I am unconvinced by the "universality" of 180-Age. I am also looking for a sub 3 in my next marathon (although have done a lot quicker some years ago) but my MAFF HR of 127 is actually, for me, more like steady pace and I can quite "happily" bang out sub 8 miles (and maybe even down to 7:30) at or under this HR. At 9:00 pace it would not be much over 100. The big difference however is that my max HR rarely gets over 160 these days. It used to get into the 190s in my mid to late 20s. So I see when you are at MP pace you are working 10 bpm over my Max. Even accounting for our age differences all my HR values are just a lot lower than you. I tend to view my "MAF" HR more like 115-120.
it sounds like you are a very experienced runner who has achieved already the results that maffetone seeks to provide. in other words, you are saying (and i paraphrase and oversimplify for effect and i do not intend to insult or denigrade), "i am exceptional, and because this general rule does not account for my exceptionality, it must therefore be incorrect"
whereas i am saying, "i am the paradigmatic ordinary person, and this general rule seems to be working, generally, for me."
@@kofuzi I am certainly not an "exceptional" runner but I take your point that my long experience as a runner may make me an exception or more precisely an outlier to this general formulae. Whatever the key to running is finding a way that works best for you and it looks like you have. I looked up those same predictors and they aren't much different for me - in fact currently the "wrong" side of sub 3! Basically we are taking a similar approach. Most of my mileage is "aerobic" regardless of what HR number we are seeing.
Seem right for you to have fun 👍🏻 any sistem you use takes hard work and consistent 🇵🇷
Hey Michael. Another update on my low HRZ training, and I'm really surprised at how our journeys have paralleled. As your know, I ran Chicago Marathon in 2:53, had two weeks off from running, and have been building up mileage from there. This week I'm on track to do 150 km's (93 miles), my biggest mileage ever, with 138 km's (85 miles) last week, my most miles ever run at the time, and the week before 131 km's (81 miles), and again the most miles I've ever run in a week. Since Chicago I've now run 1,039 km's (645 miles), so I've done less miles than you overall. I should reach my first ever 100 mile week in 3 weeks (Adaption week next with a volume drop of 40%, then a build again to this weeks volume (150 km's or 93 miles) and then hopefully my first every 100 mile week. I'm not doing Maffetone, but I am running everything in HRZ 2, and I have 7 custom zones that my Coach Eric Orton has predetermined from a 1 mile and a 20 minute as fast as you can Tests. My first HRZ 2 workout in this block (HRZ 2 is 132-142 bpm) was at a 5:17 min/km pace @ 144 bpm average, and then today (Week 11, 4:41 min/km @ 139 bpm average for 21.76 km's (13.5 miles). Every workout has targeted HRZ 2, and I'm feeling amazing running 7 days a week with no rest days. I am constantly surprised by how fresh my legs feel, even after 48 days straight of running with no days off. I'll probably start introducing speed workouts within the next 3 weeks, as I have 15 weeks until London Marathon. Best of luck with Houston. And in regards to the calculators, I always ignore them and shoot for my goal:)
What exactly was the pace at your first run of the block?
@@user-rl3ef4ju9k Sorry Arttu, the times were missing for some reason. I've updated the above comment, but the first weeks runs averaged a 5:17 min/km pace.
We are shooting for about the same pace. I plan on using the 3:05 pace group and hanging in there. May see you out there. Have Fun!!
That’s about where I’ll be lining up
Good luck to you in Houston.
I feel like I’ve run most of these miles! Great work Michael. You’ll smash it I’m sure 👍🏻
Thanks for running with me!
Nice shirt! Church of the Sunday long run
bring your tithes
Best of luck at Houston!
I will run Houston too and hope to see you personally there.
Good luck!
I also had problems to keep my MAF HR and was often too high (mostly because of the elevation gain on my track and the delay on the HR response) . I recently bought the Stryd footpod to be able to stay below the max MAF HR and it's working great. If I keep my power level,no matter if going up or downhill, my HR rarely goes to high.
Hi, Im so pleased you stuck with it. Please taper properly so your fresh as a daisy on the start line and all those miles of training will kick in on the day and make it feel almost too easy. Just try not to go off too fast at the start cos the last 10km will likely still be hard but I'm sure you are going to feel awesome on the day and hopefully break that 3 hours..
whatever the number, i'm just hoping to feel awesome on the day
That's cool that your not over focused on the time.If your anything like I was then you will be amazed at how easy it feels at least till halfway. The second half gradually got harder and the last 10 and 5kms were pretty hard work even though I was able to run them faster than the rest of the race but I always knew that I had the miles in the bank so never panicked and just dug in. I never broke into heavy breathing once, it was just my legs started burning by the end cos my longest training run was around 35km at 4.45km pace and race pace was more around 4.20km so I guess that's pretty normal due to the increase in distance and pace for the actual race. Anyway, I would have been happy with a sub 3:30.00 but felt so good on the day I finished in 3:03:30 so probably the same kind of area your going to be. I was taking a saltstick electrolyte capsule and an energy gel every half an hour too which I think helped keep my energy levels up or at the very least maybe worked as a placebo. Long message anyway, just want to wish you good luck and an enjoyable race
Woohoo good luck man!
thanks for watching!
Thanks for the much anticipated update Mike. As usual... a lot of good honest info there.
I have been inspired to try out low HR training as well. Started in mid Dec. 2019... after coming off a 2 weeks break from a marathon end of Nov 2019.
As I’m doing all Low HR, while easing back into running again... my VO2 max according to my garmin has been steadily declining. Understandable since I did no running for 2 weeks, and still slowly easing back to my last training mileage. Am wondering if you had experienced that or not?
In any case... all the best for Houston. Don’t overthink it... just enjoy it dude. The hay is in the barn!!! 😊
Cheers! 🍻
i didn't look at any extrapolated VO2 max figures
Good luck in Houston!
thanks!
Thank you so much for your enthusiasm and for the advices you give, very helpful! I am about to start the Maf training method, and obviously I wanna get a running watch, essential to run slow, the problem is that I can’t really decide which one…I don’t wanna spend too much but I would say with a strap no more than 300 euros…any suggestions? I was going for the polar pacer pro with the straps…but I am not sure about the gps tracking accuracy in there…I have seen your videos regarding that already…can you help me please?
Thank you again
Are you bringing your GoPro on the course in Houston? Have you thought about bringing that micro camera, that Seth had in NY?
i'll be smuggling in the gopro. i don't like the insta360 go. it's too small. i never know if i'm capturing 120 fps or 30 fps. and that's a problem for me.
I'm about 2 months in to maffetone training and just looked at metathon for the first time. It predicts me to be 30 minutes slower than 8 weeks ago. I'm not planning to run a marathon anytime soon, so just an interesting result.
Enjoy watching your progression. I can feel the passion for the numbers :D
However, I am still not convinced on the MAF zones bit ;)
I will still continue to use the Max HR test via treadmill to workout my HR zones.
For those curious what Treadmill Protocol I use,
Requirements: HR monitor, Treadmill that can go up to 18 or 20 kph with 0.5 kph incremental increase (maybe 15 kph with 1 kph increase is fine for those who are untrained athletes)
Protocol:
15-20 mins warm-up at and easy all-day pace
Start at 6 kph (or whatever is your easy all-day pace is above as it could be higher or lower than 6 kph)
Every 15 seconds increase your speed by 0.5 (equivalent to 1 kph increase per 30 sec)
Repeat until you reach your failure point, or until the max speed of the treadmill.
If you reach the max speed of your treadmill then try to hold this for as long as you can to induce your max heart rate.
If you use a different increase in speed for the test just make sure to do the same for your next test onwards to make the results comparable.
Speed Ramp up variations don't matter as long as you can reach your max in the end without it taking too long that your muscles fatigue before your heart does.
Bonus if you finish your test below the max speed of your treadmill. You can use the final speed before failure as sprint intervals for some 30s on / 30 s off interval training with 30 seconds at a sprint pace and 30 seconds at Zone 1 pace. For the speed work.
what i like about maffetone is that it avoids things like failure point or max speed. they have the illusion of objectivity but i think are quite malleable. they're not so malleable that it would bother me, but i think they are malleable enough that it should bother someone who rejects maffetone for a treadmill protocol and running on percentages of a max HR.
but ultimately, it gives definition to levels of effort that adapt over time as the individual progresses, and to me, that is the point.
It's going to be really interesting to see how you do! The common sentiment is that it takes the body about 6 weeks to start to adapt to new physiological stimulus, so you're well past that.
I have great curiosity for what is going to happen
I struggle to see why you are so positive about Maff. As far as I can see THE result you have at this moment is that you have become a more efficient runner at heartrate 140-145. But then again, if you have spent 800 miles in that range, it would have been weird if there had not been an improvement. I do realise that it must be a very pleasant experience to be able to run 11 miles per week more than before. I wish you all the luck in Houston! (based on 1.27 my prediction is 3:06..)
i appreciate your comment. what i have is not much. what i started out with was not much.
i make do with what i have. and i am happy
LOL I've just started doing MAF training a little over a month and IT IS MADDENING but I'm seeing and feeling positive results...
After seeing your last couple of months worth of work with Maffetone it’s not realistic to think you can get close to 3 hours in the marathon with such a short buildup since your last race. Maffetone doesn’t seem at all different from a normal training plan with speed other than the fact that you completely removed the speed work. Then when you finally added some speed in December it wasn’t enough speed to really get to a 3 hour flat level.
You really need more time to build up for the marathon if you want to get a pr. I would say if you stick with Maffetone you’ll need 5 months of work before a race. You can use Maffetone as base building but you won’t get far with just low heat rate work. If you run slow, then you’ll get good at running slow.
Triathlon Taren is a long distance athlete who is training to race for 4 - 9 hours in a half and full Ironman. Maffetone works better in that instance because you run slower in the race than what your normal marathon pace would be. So speedwork is not as important but he still does speed work.
What your training is severely lacking is a tempo run. Your long 20 mile runs with marathon pace work is perfect. But without tempo work, and not just more marathon pace running but real tempo running at faster than half marathon pace for consecutive miles will really benefit you. This will improve your vo2 max and improve your aerobic capacity.
I doubt you will be able to come close to 3 hours at Boston if you stick with Maffetone. Also considering that there are only 13 weeks to go after Houston until the race and you will be taking some time off to recover from the Houston marathon. That really only leaves 9-10 weeks of training before you taper again.
I would recommend you take this next training block to really build up a good base and use it as a spring board for your next race. Realistically it’s not possible to do another build up phase and get all the speedwork and long runs needed to go sub 3 on such a hard course.
The tempo run starting from even 20 minutes of a solid run pace of 6:25 to 6:10 will do wonders. You’ll need to work up to at least 6 miles at that pace with the goal of 8 miles. With a 2-3 mile warm up and a 2 mile cool down.
You’ll also need mile intervals like you’ve done but at much faster than marathon pace intervals. Think about, how much benefit can running at a pace that you can hold for 26 miles be when you do it 3-5 times? It’s not very taxing to run at that pace for small intervals.
I hope you get to Boston fit and ready to use it as a springboard for your next race.
i think we're pretty aligned here.
i love the 20 mile run with marathon pace work.
i'd also like to put in some long tempos, over 5 miles fo work, as you suggested.
except as a way of reintroducing speedwork after more maffetone base building, i don't anticipate doing a lot of mile repeats. i think even that interval may be too short.
Since I started swimming open water 2-3 times a week my avg running HR went down by 25-30 which is amazing. If you want to lower it I recommend swimming, particularly open water.
Don't look at the numbers too much. Just go with it! Also love the Ben Barrows shirt 👍
it'll be an interesting ride
Those race time predictors vary so much (2.59 vs 3.15). Not sure what I'd do with that info if it was me 🤔
It'd be interesting to see what predictor is most accurate over time.
i tend to believe the tanda model, as it takes age and paces into account. but then again, i think the 538 and RW models likely also take pace into account but in a way that is a bit more opaque, like as assumptions based on mileage and race times
Are you doing maffetone as a reaction to the way speedwork affected your Chicago marathon?
I learned a lot about myself and what type of runner I am.
Reaction is a misleading word
I just started using this to train for an ultra. Great for old knees!
definitely.
good luck with your ultra training!
Nice! With that kind of base mileage alone, it seems your running strength is at a very high level, albeit maybe at expense of leg turnover. In that regard, I was wondering if strides at end of runs could solve that issue for people who are like you just starting out with the Maffatone method. The way these were described to me were 50-80m controlled sprints with plenty of rest in between not meant for cardio, but strictly for leg tturnover.at the very least, you won't have any issues with the distance, which is a nice boat to be in!
Thank you for the updates, as well as all of the other great content you produce. From what I'm getting from your videos, Maffetone works best for high mileage/every day runners because it "puts a lid" on the easy days, which allows you to run more miles, causing overall improvement. Would low heart rate training be beneficial for low-mileage runner that only run 3 or 4 days a week?
One should decide either it will be a time trial kind of race or a real race. If the later then go with the sub3 group, you are ready for it.
Loving that Ben Barrows shirt!
it's a good one. very soft
Looking very promising. Perhaps an average of the 4 predictors?
I'm very keen on running to HR but at 52 my MAF be is only 133, and I simply don't think I can run/jog at that low intensity. I would need to try it to see. But seeing as my HR is usually in the 150-160/170 even range I'm sure I'll be walking for weeks!
i did a lot of walking. i still walk on occasion
great vid!!!!!!
Cool Kofuzi! I think you are finding a niche in longer distance running... maybe going for ultas?
Eventually, but there’s still a lot of work left to do on the roads
I know there is a lot of rain even deep until Thursday before the marathon. it'll be humid for sure, it may just come down to hydration and muscle strength vs lungs and legs.
i agree that weather is going to be a big part of the story
Great video and timely for me as I’m just starting a MAF block for the marathon I’m running in April. I knocked out a 9 miler at the weekend and running at the slower speed to keep my heart rate down has battered my calves. Can I ask if you found the same when you first started out? Keep up the great work and good luck from the UK.
I didn’t notice any issues with my calves, but you run differently at different paces, so that may explain it
Thanks for the reply, I suppose I meant aches in general but perhaps I should have said that ha! I think running slower is highlighting my form issues but I might be left of the middle?!Thanks again for the video it really came at the right time as I’m 4 runs in to this maf block and I’m determined to stick with it!
Maybe I missed something. You refer to "my maffetone speedwork". Was this speedwork part of some maffetone plan? How and where did you come up with the idea to do the specific speed training workouts you did?
Hi. Great report! I really like seeing such a serious analysis of MAF implementation.
So, do I understand well that you use your calculated aerobic heart rate (180-40+5=145) as max and that you average heart rate is about 4 bpm below that: about 141, in your case?
Hi pal, great reviews! But it will be marvelous if can display more information in km on the screen. I'm pretty bad in calculating miles 🤣
May I know what you are using sports camera in this video? Looks so great !
it's in the description
Thanks so much for doing this Maffetone summary! I looks like you have made tremendously strides. I am seriously considering using this methodology for one of my upcoming training blocks. I have watched a number of the Floris Gierman videos too. I notice that you used a Polar app to track your mileage. Did you mainly use a chest strap with an app such as Strava or mainly the Polar device with an optical HR sensor?
my chest strap and arm sensors were nearly identical and i personally consider them interchangeable.
i've also tried numerous wrist optical sensors and i consider them all equally unreliable for running
@@kofuzi thank you! So, just to clarify, you would consider chest or arm sensors equally reliable, but optical wrist not as much?
for my purposes, yes.
@@kofuzi awesome thanks! Hope you finish under 3:05, or even sub-3, for that matter. Good luck!
Awesome journey. Thanks for sharing. I think i need to be a bit fitter to try low heart rate training. Good luck in Houston.
Off topic: Did you see the launch of the Insta360 R. Looks pretty dope if you ask me.
i've heard about it, but i hadn't seen the launch
What are your thoughts on the influence of temperature on your HR? My HR went way down in the past two months on my easy runs for similar paces (i.e. my pace is faster for HR in the same 135-145 range) because temperature in my corner of the world went from 70-80F down to 45-55F.
i think temp makes a big difference
Kofuzi .. u just did easy miles ?? Or u incorporated any intervals ?
Great video thanks, did you stop the gym work you were doing??
My 2 cents: you should go out at 3:02 pace. If your fitness is better than expected, you can negative split the back half and have a shot at going sub-3.
i really like that idea. but i thinking i will likely start out at 3:05 and have two checkpoints for myself in the race in terms of pace.
I have a question about Maffetone. I purchased the book The Maffetone Method and understand the basics. What I don't understand is how to start. How did you decide how many miles or how much time to run when you started....and how did you decide when to do more?
I started out doing about what I had been doing. When I was frustrated with how slow things were, I ran more.
@@kofuzi thank you
Good Job! You may need to be with us in Corall A for your speed and stamina. Make sure to bring extra salt tabs or electrolytes. It's alleged to be low 50's at the start but humidity/dew point will be a factor. Are you going to the expo friday or saturday?
I’ll be going Friday I think