Setting Up HR Zones - Percent Max HR and Maffetone
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- There are times where a workout dictated by pace might result in working too hard or not hard enough. Whether it's heat, wind, or hills, training by HR can give you a more accurate indicator of the effort you need to hit your threshold or interval paces. But, it can be difficult to figure out what your HR paces need to be. Here are a couple of approaches.
Note: I don't believe Maffetone prescribes any sort of formula or methodology for setting up zones for speedwork, such as threshold or interval runs. I believe Maffetone doesn't like any work above 90% of Max HR and would want to minimize anaerobic work.
I still consider my approach here to be under the Maffetone umbrella as it uses my Maffetone number and a period of Maffetone onboarding before setting up my HR ranges. So, what I'm doing may not be classically Maffetone, but I think it provides a framework for runners considering or training under a Maffetone approach to incorporate race specific training, when needed.
Disclaimer: I am not a coach. I am not certified to be a coach. I am not anybody's coach. I am not your coach.
0:00 intro
1:32 why HR training?
4:19 formulas for Max HR
6:44 zones by percent Max HR
10:46 zones by Maffetone
15:51 what's next
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You're 40?!! I started following you only recently, but would've never guessed you're 40! Daaang you look so much younger ! Stayed blessed ✌🏾
Always great information Michael!! 👍👌
Thank you very much for the information. Looking forward to the running with Power video.
Hi MK very insightful you answered a few of my questions about MAF zone training.
Thanks for this video! If I get my run in tonight I’ll be at 500 miles of maffetone like running. In the next two weeks I wanted to make two of my medium distance days into workouts and you’ve definitely laid the ground work for me. Thanks Kofuzi!
Hey Mike, this has been really helpful. I have been confused with the MAF HR calculation, and this video really helped me out quite a bit. I am new to the whole HR training, and have never undertook any serious training plans. This will really help me going forward with my training plans!
Cool video mate, I'm 39 and my zones are close to yours, but I wasn't really sure if I was going it right until this video. Thankyou
That was very helpful! Thanks for the video.
Thanks for the video… I’m focusing on the HR Zones especially Fat burn zone… I started using Polar Ft7 in 2015... then upgrade to Polar M400 but then I moved to Apple Watch 4 and finally now using Apple Watch 5.... I was using Runtastic app ( Adidas now ) but I missed the lock zone feature plus vibration notification once I out of my target HR Zone... but currently I found app “ zones for HR training “ it’s amazing and doing exactly what polar do... I’m still fan of polar and I’m planning to buy Vantage V.....Thanks for all your efforts I watched many of your videos
Thank you so much for that calculator, I was really confused about this whoile HR thing with MAF. I've always had a pretty high heart rate when doing sports and I can hold conversation easily up to 165bpm, before needing to breathe harder (talking becomes impossible, when I'm way up in my high 170s). When calculating my HR zones with MAF, Zone2 would put me with a max HR of 146 which is just unreasonably low for me and feels more like a Zone1 recovery run than anything else (I don't even break a sweat, unless I run for longer than 1 hour and I'm a beginner runner with no good endurance sports background, so my cardiovascular system is as undeveloped as can be). The calculator you linked in the video description ramps my Zone 2 up to max. 162 bpm which feels much more suitable for me. But I am planning on going to a sports lab and get my zones tested when I'm a little longer into my running training.
I am not a fast runner... and felt like that wasn't changing. I started to focus on heart rate instead. It helped on an unseasonably hot day. It's helped when I was under the weather. But I've also seen my max drop over time and when I started looking at pace again, I had gotten a smidge faster. Thanks for a clear explanation!
love your vedios. informative and also beautiful. specially the foot shots where landing and follow through.
I found this video (and your previous one on power vs HR vs pace) to be very helpful. I’ve been doing MAF running since January. In June, I started adding a day of tempo runs per week, and since then have been experimenting & wondering more about the right HR for those. Your #s happen to be quite similar to mine, and your explanations helped to clarify a few points and also to affirm what I’ve been learning from practice and feedback.
Just went for an easy, cool recovery jog out on the beautiful Lakefront Trail here in Chicago. It’ll be waiting for you when you return!
I miss that route so much. Glad you’re enjoying it!
Great info and video. I’m working on HR right now because there’s no races on my schedule this is the perfect time for me to work on my aerobic engine.
Yes that too!!
thanks for going into explaning this topic. l got to say that whenever l have used or read about the 220 method before, the calculation is done differently to how you did it. first you substract your age, secondly your rest hart rate and then you find the percentage on the reminder, finally you add up your resting HR. eg: 220minus 40=180 -55( rest hart rate)=125 by o.65(easy) = 81+55= 136. As you can see both methods are closer together when done that way. thanks!
Greetings from Vienna, Austria, to New Vienna! I watched your video many times now as I just had my spiroergometry with corresponding lactate testing a few days ago.
Your evaluations are very much in line with my own. Maybe it is also of interest for the community to go even below the Maff-threshold in order to fully "run our system" on fad burning mode. For me this is just a HR of around 118-122 which is more than 10 beats below my Maff-threshold. It is said to be able to improve pace there quite rapidly without increasing the HR. I started off with about 7min/k which is really very slow for me.
Great info once again ! Learned a lot :)
I used MAF as my way of training I've done it now for about 7 months. I absolutely love it and find that it has given me a way to run almost every day and not feel any injuries or feel like I am ever too depleted. I have definitely seen a lot of improvement over this time. I have run 2 ultras and feel that MAF training has really helped me with successfully completing the runs.
Thanks for the video!
i definitely agree with you on how running by maffetone gives you the resilience to run almost every day. it's an underappreciated aspect of this style of running
I'm always in the zone.
I’m always On Fire! 🔥
The Danger zone?
AutoZone
I think I’ve been running too hard. I’m going to start using HR training. Thanks for the video
Hi Ko! Hope your New Year will be awesome for you and your family!! Researching HR running, soooo confusing! Lol.. I think it boils down to preference?
great analysis, thx
I've been sideline by an injury and starting with run/walk/run workouts and a buddy sold me a HRM. I've been reading and learning on how to run "easy". This video came right on time. Last two workouts I've had to run 400 and walk 400 to stay within the suggested zones. It's weird and I am learning so I am pretty excited to see where this leads. Great video. Thanks!
good job! this might be frustrating for some at first but this will pay off with patience.
Love this video. Been having trouble with heart rate training one cause of the zones but two cause of the different formulas. Thanks for explaining it in detail
i know Im asking the wrong place but does anyone know a tool to get back into an Instagram account..?
I was stupid forgot the account password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me!
@Anders Briar Instablaster :)
@Dawson Graysen thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im in the hacking process atm.
Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Dawson Graysen it worked and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thanks so much, you saved my account !
@Anders Briar Glad I could help :D
Hi Mike, great video and information presented. What max HR percentage range would you set for the tempo zone? Would this zone be in between easy and threshold? Thanks!
Excellent information! Just had been in my thoughts lately!
I hope it’s helpful
Great video! Thx man
Great video like ur last one
Hey Coach! Good Stuff
Thank you for watching!
I set my HR zones up after %LTHR. Works very very well. Try it! Garmin detects your LTHR and automatically drifts upward as you become more fit, and so are the zones. In my world that is the prober way of HR training. My LTHR is 170 bpm @ pace 4:17 min/km , and zone 5 starts here. With MaxHR, you will never know what it actually is 100%. 220 minus age is very incorrect!
The problem with the standard method with zones setup after maxHR, it’s almost impossible for new runners to run in zone2 because it is way to low. And thats why many give up on HR training to begin with..
%LTHR. Try it out!
My Maffetone HR is 141 (age 44) sits right in the middle of my zone 2, and that is perfect where it should be.
Great information, I've always struggled with HRZ as when I've tried it, it seems to be wildly inaccurate, i can do an easy run & have a really high heart rate & then the next day i can push myself & have a much lower heart rate. I ended up giving up & if i'm blowing out my backside i know my heart rates high 😂
it's not for everyone. i will certainly concede that, when starting out, it is not the most fun way to run
Thanks for the great videos and content! I bet your max HR is much higher than 180. Try running the hills or push on a stationary bike (or rower). Plus, do you know what your resting HR is? That's also important, and given how technological you are you could have a look at the Oura ring (or similar). Cheers!
the other day, i was sitting on the couch and my heart rate was steady at 53bpm, which seemed low. i would have guessed it at about 58 or 59.
i think my max HR is probably closer to 183, but i think it might be worth doing a bit of a test to see.
I’ve been interested in these talks since you started last year. So thank you very much!! I think I will start now that I won’t be competing until next year and see where I am at in December. One comment though... you are wearing a white jacket over a white sofa... and the text is in white. At least in my phone I can’t differentiate it :S
thank you for pointing that out. i added a drop shadow to the text to help it stand out, but obviously, that was not enough
Thank you for another great video. My HR figures are almost identical to yours. Now here is what I cannot explain! I am 56 and you are 40. If I follow MAF formula, it would take me to much lower HR. Also the 220-age does not seem to work for me. I don't think I lack fitness. I run my first marathon in May and my 10k PB is 43.40. Anything you could think off to explain the high HR.
MAF and other HR zones are just statistically derived zones. They are working for lots of people, but not for everyone. I also struggle with getting a heart rate as low as MAF or Zone 2 demands on my easy runs. There are also different methods on calculating HR zones like on the basis of your lactate threshold heart rate. Maybe that makes more sense for you. Or try running pace/power based.
Hi. Thanks for this. I've doing maf training for the past 5 months. I started 9km pace and now im 7.22km pace. I was a smoker for 22 years of course i quit now. Do u think it affects on my training ?
With the maffetone method. can we start out with the 80/20 rule?.....or should I stick with strictly using easy runs for about 3 months before putting in some repetition runs or tempo runs?
Do you have any episodes about running injuries and how to deal with them? Thank.
Great videos. Been a new subscriber, as I just started running. Long time cyclist though. 220-age is just ballpark [or not even that] of course. I am 56 and my LTHR is 169, giving me a max HR of 186 or so. Question is, can I apply the same max HR for running that I am using for cycling? Or do I need to test it for running?
How did you determine your LTHR for cycling? If you used the Friel method for LTHR zones for cycling you can use Friels for running as well.
How do you setup polar flow for MAF training?
Thanks for the informative video! I’m starting to do HR training recently using the maffetone method which put my easy pace at around 140. However I have been struggling to keep my HR down. Is it counterproductive if I tend to drift into the dreaded “grey zone”? What’s your take on training in this zone?
i'd avoid it. most people have to do a lot of run/walking when they start with maffetone. i definitely did. and i complained so much about it.
@kofuzi I know this video was done a little while ago but was your 180 heart rate max for these scales strictly based on age 220-age formula or do you know that your heart rate max actually falls at 180? I’m 32 and a very new runner and just got a Hr monitor but have found my heart rate go higher than the 220- age formula. If I use the percentage ranges based on 220-age I’ll end up with lower hr per each percentage zone.
Do you train 100% z2 when building base?
Great info, Mike. Thanks. With these HR zones, do you adjust as another birthday comes around or do you just do that every few years?
I haven’t been doing HR training long enough for it to come up. When I started at age 39, I started with age 40 numbers.
I think I will probably just make the adjustment at my birthday
I've been a mountaineering trail runner last 3 year's with some pretty fast time's. But injured myself and had to take 5 month's off. Never knew about Zones or Maffetone. I definitely was over training and over striding. But now that I'm trying to train smarter, I have to walk so much and my time's are terrible trying to stay in zone 2 and almost impossible on my steep trails. Will it ever come down? I'm 40.
How come you use a polar watch instead of garmin? Just out of curiousity
Do you see any risks of doing work in the 175+ HR range? I'm similar in age/speed to you but I find anytime I do a really hard workout and hit those zones I feel like I'm sick for a couple days afterwards. Thanks and keep up the great work!
every type of run has risks, but those in that highest intensity level have more. i don't do a lot of work in that zone as i don't think it's as necessary for a marathoner of my caliber (i have many bigger weaknesses that need to be addressed first).
but i think if you're running those workouts so hard that you're getting sick for a couple days afterwards, i'd revisit the structure of the workout (maybe too fast, maybe too long, maybe too many reps) and also take another look at how you're recovering between workouts.
My experience thus far with MAF has been a mixed bag, but I imagine much of that is due to my execution. I just started running in May. Did my own walk-run method. In June I started MAF, with a limit of 135 bpm and it took me around 15:50 to finish 1 mile because I'd have to walk so much of it to not exceed 135. I was also trying to jog as easily as possible. My best first mile time now (as of this week) is 13:30 - which still has plenty of walking included, but I've started running at a more 'natural' effort and only allowing my HR to recover down to 125 before running again. On the bad side -#1 I feel that my attempts to jog very slowly really screwed up my form and was/am now battling a bit of runner's knee. #2 After 2 complete months of MAF, I'm still not able to run a complete mile without any walking and stay below my MAF limit. So....I've started throwing in 1 run per week that will include some style of workout, whether that be running at specific paces and/or distances uninterrupted, regardless of actual HR.
@ Chris Yow - exactly what I was thinking this morning .... just one run each week where I skip MAF training and get legs and heart moving faster !
that sounds really frustrating. what happens when you run at like 140. or 145? after two months, i'd look into perhaps adjusting that number. (i don't have experience with this though.) I believe Maffetone would have you look into your diet, stress levels, and sleep.
have you tried Floris Gierman's facebook group? a lot of knowledge and experience there.
@@kofuzi Part of my next "phase" was to start progression runs based on HR. Something like first mile at my 135 HR limit, X miles at 145, final cool down mile back at 135. Another thought was introducing an uninterrupted mile into middle of otherwise MAF rules efforts. I deleted FB account in Jan, but may create a throwaway account for groups, etc.
Thanks! Super helpful. Any suggestions for how to schedule in the various training zones for a beginner?
For a beginner, I’d recommend a lot of running at the easy zone. From there, how much of the other types of running will depend on the specific goals you choose, such as if you’re preparing for a 5k or a half marathon.
But to generalize, you’ll likely want to have no more than 2 workout days per week. Some plans have three workouts per week, but I would be cautious if those weeks also feature high mileage for you
How about the Lactate Threshold method? Garmin uses this on their watches besides the default maxHR method. These two methods result in very different H zones. This is a bit confusing for me.
Zone 3, baby!
im 37 and I found out that my Max heart rate is 196 so im nearly 20 Bpm over what the usual 220-37-183Bpm formula. So my zones are higher than usual.
This is the easiest, well simplify and most realistic video I watched about HR training. Great job. Do you have any video about Cadence training bro?
Good info. Love your stuff.
For people that want to use max HR there are some fairly reliable ways to calculate it without all of the fancy shmancy equipment. However, calculating max HR using 220-age is unreliable. It doesn't consider the individual's relative fitness, as two people of the same age may have different max HR but said formula would yield the same value. Proper HR training programs/regimens rely on correct values which vary from individual to individual.
you prefer the run a bunch of hills approach? i think i personally like that one, but i think it is perhaps prohibitively daunting for the average person curious about HR training
@@kofuzi I do a few sets of a set distance (~1 mile) on a track and increase the intensity each set until I reach my max speed and record my MHR like that. But, of all the methods you mentioned I think the JD method is the best. I've read variations of it and it seems to be solid. I agree that the hills approach may be intimidating to some people. I think it's a combination of the perception of hills plus the demands of the task as it's a really hard effort
I can't run in easy runs, which is below 142 unless what I heard Garmin watch does not showing correctly HR. Do you wear HR chest strap? I will try again, but from my understanding it would be a lot of walking((
I don't understand why people keep going different formulas which go correlated to age. I am 37, my Max is 188(maybe higher). I've ran by the feelings to feel where Zone 2 ends and it's at 141 bpm.
There are many formulas, which one is correct for us? There are: 220-age, Korvonen, reserve etc, there is a generic that Polar and Garmin suggest where Zone 2 is 60-70% of HRM, which is far from real life.
Which to choose?
What are your thoughts on using Heart Rate Reserve method to calculate zones?
I use them. I'm still new but I can say I've made better progress using HRR zones vs the standard.
Garmin estimates both VO2 max and threshold heart rate/pace, and I am assuming Polar does the same, have you checked those estimates and how they compare with max HR zones or Maffetone?
I haven’t yet done the analysis of estimated VO2 max values, either from a training zone or a predicted time perspective.
Age late 40s. Use MHR as 173. MAF as 133.
I like HR zones but it becomes robotic using 1,2,3 etc and tries to create uniformity with even %. I reframed my training mini blocks so it engages me and sets a purpose. Am I playing today ? Am I going to get my body into a panic state to push it? Or simply get pummeled!
I don't like to slot in to nice round % ..I did take a VO2 test which indicates 140 to 150 where I can get rid of lactate and run 12km - 14km / hr.
What is my protect zone ? Aka zone 1 for recovery - hr for me is < 120
What is my play zone ?
Nice easy no effort - 120 - 133
What is my pace zone ? 134 - 140 a zone where I can hold for 1 hr plus
What is my panic zone? 140 - 152 is where I do my tempo or hard efforts
What is my pummel zone? Aka zone 5 which is 153 + mostly for track and maybe for hills.
Big fan of HR training and has helped with injury MGT.
that's an interesting way to put it. i like that. when i'm not training for a specific race and just running, i do mostly easy runs, but will occasionally throw in some faster miles or fartleks for fun. it's nice to just go.
Great information as always. I do have a question regarding Maff training. Majority of my training is done at elevation and hills, am I supposed to stop and walk to ensure my HR gets back down to the anaerobic rage. For me it’s about a 141BPM.
I had to do that quite a bit in the beginning. it was a very frustrating couple of weeks.
I recommend using a chest strap HR monitor to ensure that the rising HR is accurate
@@kofuzi okay thank you. I just want to make sure I’m doing it right in preparation for the upcoming race year.
74th! Great video 👍 Really useful information. How about percentage of heart rate reserve?
There are many ways to construct these zones. I’m just not familiar with that approach
super helpful! I've been playing with a lot of these systems for a while now, the comparison is great. Have you ever established a "marathon heart rate"? I always kind of imagine on race day (figuring in excitement/nerves) it is on the top end of easy or the bottom end of threshold, or maybe more into threshold (trying to find that redline that avoids the bonk).
mine is somewhere around 160, i think. it's going to be a bit lower of an HR than that of threshold pace, but much above the HR of easy pace. while threshold HR is something that will deplete you after about an hour, with M HR, you are looking for something that won't deplete you for 3 hours (or whatever your marathon goal time is).
It is a personalized number, but if you can nail down a threshold number, i would start out with an estimate that it is about 10bpm slower than that.
Thanks! This was helpful, I think what I've always struggled with is taking 'maximum' heart rate literally. In other words, late in a 5k I've had my hr rise to 190s and 200 so I've used 200 as max number cause I've hit that before during a race, when it reality is probably should be more like 180, so I'll try that and see if that changes my outlook with running by hrm
as far as i'm aware, the max heart rate number doesn't have a duration requirement, necessarily. but i would be wary of going through an HR tracing after a race and picking out the lone super high value. it could be a measurement error (picking up cadence as well as HR, for example). i wouldn't look for an average, per se. but i would look to see where it's maxing out and use that.
@@kofuzi Hmmm, maybe I wasn't wrong after all then. I've hit 200 multiple times, on two different hrms. It's always at the very end of a 5k (I've also found that during that crazy sprint to the finish line I tend to hold my breath cause.... I'm an idiot :P )
I am 62....118bpm is very very slow. Does the MAF method adjust for higher age? My gutt feel is 139 bom might do it???
I tend to think that at the far edges of the age spectrum, the maffetone formula seems less reliable. that being said, I don't think 62 qualifies as being at the edges.
if 118 feels too slow, try using a Zone 2 calculation (which I think is about .8 of your max HR). for a lot of people, .8*maxHR is just about equal to 180-age +/- 5.
when I started using maffetone, I was run/walking. most people are run/walking.
Thank you Michael, very informative and helpful, as always. I know, or I think I know, that MAF training using the MAF HR formula, should be done over a great periodic time, with much patience. What I’m curious about is wether one can accomplish their MAF training goal using an average while running, then walking fast, then switching back and forth ( to get a HR of say 110 to 140 divided equally in time to give you a 125 average). OR must I walk “extremely” quickly and keep my HR at a steady 125. My app only gives me my HR every 1 minute, so you can see the dilemma ........ and thoughts by anyone is appreciated :-)
btw, I’m 60, male, with a resting HR of 39, first thing in the morning.
@dewrunning - I throw out my understanding of MAF training, and if/when Michael or someone else more knowledgeable replies they can add to or correct me if mistaken. I've been running MAF for just under 3 months. My understanding and approach is to never exceed my MAF limit. Mine is 135. I start jogging and my 135 HR alert goes off, so I start walking until I recover about 10 beats per minute. Then I jog again until hitting the limit. You do not want to run past your limit and use the total average to claim a MAF style run. Hope that helps.
@@cdyow - Thank you - your explanation is was I was thinking, but I was hoping someone told me differently so I could keep running and not walking ;-) Take care, and thanks again.
that resting HR is very low.
i responded to Chris' comment as well, and i think for the both of you, it might be worth trying to figure out your actual max HR (such as by doing the bunch of hills test). from there, see what 79% of that Max HR is. i'm not an HR expert, but i would suspect that for each of you, the value will be very different than your Maffetone number. and whatever that number is, that may be the better "maffetone" number to use.
i would also suggest checking out Floris' facebook group. there are a lot of people there with more experience than me.
Yes, @kofuzi, very low, but that’s before I get out of bed in the morning (usually around 60 when sitting).
My limited “total” understanding of MAF’s, is that you train your body to only burn fat during a marathon run (hence the low/no carb diet at the beginning of the training).
Then after 6-12 months, your heart rate should remain the same, while running faster. Then when running a marathon, and at about mile 22 +/- you can go past your threshold and go anaerobic. Since you only have about 4ish miles left, you shouldn’t bonk .....
Michael, can you share with us your training plan since the day you run your first mile, until you become you are now? Im not sure how fast and how far should i run, and the improvements i should make every period
the question presumes that i had a singular plan and have been following it from the beginning.
it's been a meandering process, falling in and out of love with running many times. like most things in life, i kind of just follow my curiosity and try a lot of different things.
kofuzi been running since march, so this is my 5th month. I cant even do 2k without stopping, now i can run 7k continuosly. Yet, i dont really know whether should i go for pace first, or go far then increase the pace later. Whats your take on this, or do you just follow your heart and listen to your body? Thank you sir you have been an inspiration for 4 months. Hopefully for many more!!
Oh my God.. my man Kofuzi.. u truly are the one run guru for me cause turns out ur the same age as me.. i've been a subscriber for the past year or so and only now this video popped in my timeline...
So i have been questioning my self for the past 7 months if im training correctly.. because 7 months ago i started to concentrate on low heart training only and i follow maffetone..
so since this is a 3year old video so i assume ur 43 like me.. n with maffetone it comes down to 180-43= 137..
But one thing i never knew that we can +5 based on our experience.. meaning we can still push to 142...
Because since about a 2-3 months ago finally my heart rate managed to go down from around 140s and now for the past month stays at below 138 on my daily run of 8-10km (5-6.2miles)... but... the only problem is my pace is stuck at around 6:00-6:20mins /km (9:40-10:10mins /miles)
But with this knowledge from u i now know Tommorow... I can at least push to 142! 😄
Kofuzi.. this video of ur's has got to be one of the most helpful advise I have ever receive!
So Thank U! big love, support n success from a fellow runner all the way from Indonesia!!
happy running!
@@kofuzi 😃🙏
My garmin says my zone 2 is 132 but when I'm at 150 I can talk, sing, breath through my nose for a full mile, etc. Could it be that inaccurate? I'm in decent shape at 39 running 25 miles a week
possible. but more likely is the inaccuracy of converation-ability as a metric
Could you share your entire journey of MAF training in one video? It’s progress, disadvantage etc. There are many people against this, but it worked for you I believe. Why you started, who should use etc. Thanks!!
Question: I am fairly new to running (few months in), 26y old. running about 30-35k per week. How come I can run faster, 5:15 per km, at a lower heart rate, 132-135bpm, for 10k but I still feel that completing a marathon or even half marathon is far away..?
Probably just a matter of mental resilience and acclimatisation. As you run more often and longer the distance feel shorter. At least that was the case for me
I think it’s a matter of volume. If running a marathon is a goal, then I would suggest gradually increasing volume. More days running per week and more km’s per week.
@@kofuzi Will keep at it, goal is to double weekly mileage by of the year (first marathon coming up in September 2021. I hope your training goes well :)
How do you monitor it while running? Ive struggled to find a good solution.
Both Polar and Garmin allow custom HR zones and have HR zone data fields. I’m not sure about Coros off the top of my head, but I’d be surprised if you couldn’t do similar there too.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the question
@@kofuzi Im trying to find an alert that tells me I exceeded my zone rather than having to look at my watch every 30 seconds. Thanks👍
How long does it takes you to get into rhytem with MAF HR zone..
took me about 3 months
I watched sage's video on MAF previously and a point he said made sense to me that his MAF HR is too high to be considered easy. For me i usually run my easy 145-150bpm but my MAF HR is 160 which seems alittle too hard to be at conversational pace. Anyone else had the same problem?
Maffetone considers this in his book (I recently revisited it when researching this video). Maffetone suggests that people blessed with this “problem” can run aerobic intervals. I envision this as fartleks with On periods at MAF number and off periods much lower, like 110 or 120.
My second point would be that I consider a Maffetone approach most suited for normal humans who are trying to build aerobic fitness. Applying it an elite athlete who already has a career worth of aerobic training (see e.g. Sage or SJD) a bit analogous to giving antibiotics to a perfectly healthy person. (It’s not a perfect analogy, but I hope it’s instructive). I use maffetone as a person who didn’t really start marathon training until his mid 30s and is hoping to build an aerobic system that is anywhere even in the vicinity as strong as Sage’s.
All that being said, I’m sure Sage would disagree with me and also with this approach. I am comfortable with that.
I find the same thing and am convinced that MAF is mostly useful as a top end heart rate for beginning runners with mediocre cardiovascular fitness. It serves the important purpose of allowing beginners to increase their mileage without overtaxing their cardio system but once you are able to run easy at a reasonable heart rate the MAF heart rate ends up sticking you right in the "junk miles" category for a polarized training regimen. There doesn't seem to be any scientific validity to the formula either as it doesn't seem to perform as well for people of differing ages. My guess is that Maffetone figures someone of your age can probably deal with the stress of running at a heart rate of 160 and that it doesn't really matter if that feels like it puts you at a relatively hard pace.
@@franklehouillier8865 that was my initial thought process too and I ran at 160 on my easy days but felt that it was alittle too hard eventually and felt like I was doing a easy tempo run 3-4 times a week. Most people's experience with MAF is that they have to go soo slow but they manage to up their mileage easily with that. With me it was the complete opposite. Maybe I'm just weak or something hahaha
@@kofuzi perhaps I could try the adopt the "aerobic fartlek" during my runs and see how it goes. I dont think I'm abnormal or elite even because I only started running about a year ago and is currently still trying to build up the aerobic fitness as well. Having said that, I will go read up more about this "gift" and maybe I can incorporate both concepts together
@@kofuzi I feel like you have this "problem" too though. If you are comparing yourself to Sage, your marathon time is about 35% slower than his (3:10 vs 2:20 or thereabouts). Wouldn't you expect your easy pace to be roughly 35% slower too? Even if you were to take Sage's faster easy days at a 7:24 minute pace this would put you at 10ish miles. I'd be willing to bet that your heart rate at 10 minute miles on a regular day is much closer to 110 than it is to 145. I realize that there isn't necessarily a linear correlation between marathon pace and easy pace but as a rough heuristic you are running your easy miles much harder than Seth or Sage in terms of pace as well as heart rate.
i wonder why need HR strape even smart watch already have HR monitor? can someone tell me
Many people with have skin tone that makes optical heart sensor less accurate than electrode sensors.
The wrist is also a rather poor location from which to get an accurate optical HR reading.
@@kofuzi oh, thank you for the answer♥️
Maybe you could do comparison between pro runner HR/pace vs amateur
i think if you looked at Seth or Sage's maffetone videos, they discuss some of the numbers that apply to them
I'm trying to get back into running (more jogging than running) after 5 years of being sidelined with chronic PF. I still have nagging pain in my heel, but... I'm doing what I can, as it doesn't look like it's ever going away completely.
When I first started running again, about 8 years ago, I used the heart rate method described by John L. Parker, Jr. in his book "Heart Monitor Training for the Compleat Idiot". In his variation on the approach, you use the "run hills" approach to determine your max. You then calculate your heart rate range by subtracting your resting heart rate (your heart rate when you first wake up, while you're still in bed) from your max. This is your total range. Your 70% range is the total range * 0.70 + your resting heart rate. For me, my max = 180 and my min is 50, so 70% = 130 * 0.70 = 91 + 50 = 141.
When I first start running, my heart rate always runs high, like very close to my max, even when my exertion level is not high. From there, it tends to drift lower, so I could spend a good part of my time between 70 and 80%, but I'd have to ignore the numbers I get at the start.
FWIW, I read somewhere that the "220 - your age" max heart rate calculation is total bunk, with no science to back it up. Using that calc, my max heart rate should be 154, but I routinely hit 180 and above. Yeah, I know, I'm old!
Have you considered barefoot shoes? PF is an indication of weak feet which can happen from wearing large cushion shoes and heel striking. You'd have to start super slow but a eventual move to minimalist footwear should solve the PF
My heart rate is still in the 180s on easy runs. I did my half marathon (2:16) in February with an average of 189, max 207 bpm. On the bike, my average is around 150, so I have way more control. Idk why I can't keep it down on runs.
are you using an external HR monitor? or is it from a watch?
kofuzi Watch. Originally a Garmin, but bought an Apple Watch and wore both at the same time on a test run and they measured the same. I’m also in Houston.
I'm 40. My Garmin says my easy zone is 106-126. I find it impossible to run for more than half a minute in that heartrate zone. I have to keep walking. I feel it's too low. I can still talk fine at 135. I've felt like throwing the zone business out the window some days because it doesn't make sense. I live in a tropical, very humid country too, so naturally I'll have a higher heart rate, even going out at 4:30 in the morning.
try around 140bpm and see how that feels. if you've not tried low HR running before, you will likely still be doing a lot of run walking, as i did.
and make sure that you are getting an accurate reading if you are wanting to really try low HR running. consider an armband/bicep optical sensor or an elctrode based chest strap for highest accuracy
@@kofuzi thank you! Appreciate it.
Basic idea when you stop losing weight or hit the plateau just increase the intensity of the workouts.
Using 220-age as a max and setting percentages from there is wildly inaccurate for some people like me. It comes out easily 15bpm below a max HR that I can hit a few times a week.
I have been using HR training for a long, long time and I was having trouble matching perceived effort, power and HR in any sensible way.
But for the last several months I switched to the Joe Friel method based on lactate threshold HR recommended to me by TrainingPeaks. It has been a huge revelation to me and now the zones really feel correct. Workouts are no longer frustrating for me to hit zones and I’m making more progress.
The tricky bit is inferring a lactate threshold HR. TrainingPeaks AI will calculate it for you after you do a threshold type run for about an hour if it thinks your value is wrong. And they have instructions for figuring it out.
www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/
i'll take a look. i do like the idea of using an hour long threshold effort (as difficult as that is to come by).
but how would your zones stack up if you did a jack daniels style of max HR simulation test and then used his percentages?
when i used 220-age for the runners world percentages, i obtained values that were similar to the ones that you described (being up to 15bpm off)
For me the zone 1 and 2 were fairly similar. 2 is slightly lower at the high end but 3, and 4 are compressed into significantly tighter and lower ranges. It means that zone 4 and 5 are easier to hit in threshold and VO2Max intervals practically and also that I need to be more careful not to creep into zone 3 when I’m doing pure aerobic.
It also made my garmin and Strava load numbers more sensible.
It also means that max HR is irrelevant. Everything overt lactate threshold HR is some flavor of zone 5.
Which is good because it is really hard and unpleasant to actually go out and find it.
There is nuance that TrainingPeaks has zone 5a, 5b, and 5c. It’s described in that Joe Friel primer I linked.
I’m 56 suggesting my max HR is 164. Taking the hill repeat approach its 156. Either way, the “Easy” range puts me at no more than 125-130. At that level I would have to walk a good portion of the time (power walking puts me up to 120 at the most) because a continual jog is so agonizingly slow to stay under 130 it’s just not fun. I operate instead on a basis that 140-145 is a good Easy to Moderate HR. I don’t think I have the patience to spend 8-12 weeks doing nothing but easy runs (walks) in order to achieve the Maffetone goal. Am I copping out?
I've been basing my zones off Lactate Threshold instead of max HR.
hope it's been working for you!
@@kofuzi Zone 2 is a more realistic number
13:03 why is you cadence super low? Your stride length must be huge
130-142 is my tempo heart rate 😳
There’s a lot of variability possible
Also, we need a ciele x kofuzi collab. :)
...and then there are 5 zones!?? 🤔
some people use 3. some people use 5. some people use 6. I use 5.
but the concept, and the major physiological demarcation points are the same
Happy 42 this year
43
First
Yo!
I’m 40… and my threshold HR is 176 and my zone 2 tops put at 152bpm. Essentially exactly add 10bpm to all those calculations and that’s me. MAFs is a load of BS. The theory to the training is amazing. Definitely works. But his method for calculating zones is terrible. It’s almost always going to be incorrect.
perhaps. but I also feel like, if your threshold HR is correct, you may be making your conclusions off of your own experience where you have a slightly high HR compared to the rest of the population