Comparing pre production & tofu isn't viable to something that has been around for 2.5 decades or something that can actually be listed under CCCC integration system.
What are you saying? The vaunted Abrams tank can't withstand Russian shovel attacks, because according to western military sources Russia ran out of missiles and tanks in May 2022, yet they're being destroyed in the battlefield. I have a feeling the stealth money pits will fair about the same. Them damn shovels.
@@martinjrgensen8234 Correct. It's a command and control jet, runs the battle space and is modular enough to be flown for many decades to come. The new Longshot missile on F-15EX as F-35's missile "trucks"... means we don't need NGAD anymore.
That's how fighter jet development works. I guarantee you we are twenty years deep into developing it's replacement and ten years into the one after that.
@@andrewsheek Something seriously changed for them to suspend/cancel the NGAD program. We might be in the interwar years from WWI to WWII... the BF-109, Kitty Hawk and Spitfire are in the pipeline... Biplane/Highwing aircraft obsolete overnight.
The purpose of the F35 is not being a good fighter jet, it's maximum financial gains for the military industrial complex and the shareholders on the expanse of the taxpayers - and the F35 is exceptional successful at that.....
You are Right. It would have been better to have copied the Russian system by using 1 platform and keep on advancing it. Very soon drones will soon start taking out jets
Ukraine showed us that it's all about missiles and drones. With hypersonic missiles, we know that there are now only two types of ships, subs and targets. In a war against Russia or China our carriers wouldn't last an hour.
LoL war against china and russia😂😂😂 u need to get out this hallucination fed by your hypocrite liar govt..there will never be such things as WAR against china and russia in nuclear age...yall warmericans can't even win against PYJAMA GOAT HEADERS😂
Ukraine doesn't have an airfleet of F-35s. You couldn't judge the situation. They fight with what they have. Who knows what could have been if Ukraine had more modern jets/missiles/tanks.
I'm Canadian and did a career in the military followed by the defense industry. I've always thought the F-35 was going to be a bucket of problems, especially for a small air force like ours. It's a hangar queen, too expensive to acquire and way too expensive to operate for us. In an actual war, we'll run out of them in a mission or two and be left with nothing to fight with in the air except what gen2 or 3 aircraft we can scavenge from what we might have tucked away. It might eventually work well for an air force like the USAF or USN, but even then it's complexity means that it is not going to be available for use in combat at its peak capabilities more often than not. I was on the side of the RCAF acquiring the J-39E Grippen but unfortunately we lost that fight.
Both are overpriced and expensive to maintain or keep in the air. Both were built to make the maximum amount of money and keep making that money by the companies involved in their development and manufacture. Of course nobody will admit this other than those that fly them and have to maintain them or know the costs associated to these aspects and are honest enough to admit it , let alone admit it publicly.
So what do we needs as far as national defense is concerned? I hear comments like yours from people who do not have a clue about the military or what the country needs as for as the military is concerned.
@charlesdriggers199 Fair point. We need to keep checks on what politicians are able to do with contracts that only benefit their voters. We also need experience in the SECDEF and individual force secretary's offices to ensure waste is controlled and needs more specifically looked at. I was a 26 year veteran and can identify a number of cost savings efforts that could immediately be put in place. There are also significant training deficiencies that have gone unaddressed for years. I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but as SECDEF, I could use a pen to fix a number of problems that would stop waste, increase combat effectiveness, improve morale, and drive up enlistments/reenlistments. Many problems are complicated by people just like me. I know a number of people who set themselves up for follow-on contactor jobs to pad their retirement. A number of problems will take years to fix, but we need to get started.
I'm glad you posted this comment. The reality is that Iranian radar painted the F-35s on the way to their targets and were forced to RTB. Oddly, the initial stories that reported the incident have disappeared, almost like they were censored. Bottom line is when your enemy can target you 100 miles out, you don't have a stealth aircraft.
People who say the F-35 is combat proven by Israel is like saying an F1 car is ready to win a race because it managed to turn on the engines and drive 3 steps far The F-35 is not battle tested against real opponents that have a propper air force, real air defence and more Its a mess of a platform that has some incredible sensors and electronics packet into it but that still does not guarantee that the aircraft itself is a good, reliable and sustainable weapon system
Let's avoid a nerve wracking situation that might escalate to dangerous level or proportions just to see, verify or check how good the f35 is. At least there is a company who tried their best to cool down the bad guys.
F-35 spends more time on the ground than it does in the air.. they should remame it ''The Emu''.. after Australia's largest flightless bird. You could have bought 200 of them, they dont fly, dont carry weapons, but they dont cost $100 million each either...
@rogerbiggerstaff3293 Who cares about pilots' feelings? The F35 is not practical, a billion moving parts, and a logistical nightmare. It practically flies itself. There is no need for a pilot.
@@seanp9277 You realize that twin engine jets are even more expensive, right? Furthermore, if you compare unit cost vs new build 4th generation jets, the F-35 is less expensive. The unit cost for those jets don't include targeting/navigation/IRST/jamming pods, or external/conformal fuel tanks, which is how those jets would be configured in combat.
Musk's opinions are vastly over-rated. Remember this is the guy who supposedly came up with the hyperloop idea that already existed in science fiction and thought it could work. A billion wasted dollars later all the companies working on the idea have all but shut up shop yet a single COMPETENT engineer (which Musk certainly isn't) could see all the flaws and cost underestimations a mile off.
The F35 as a ground attack plane is really a joke. In order to pack enough ordinance to be an effective platform, bombs, missiles ect would have to be deployed on hard points outs the ordinance bay rendering stealth a mute point. At this point with the internal bay only setup, we could achieve the same thing with the F117. Without stealth, the F16 and F15 E are better choices. This doesn't even go into the cooling issue due to the inadequate engine capacity. The thing is an albatross.
I thought a key point to stealth/LO was to have a day-one platform to take out ground-based hostile AD. Once opposing force's AD is down, and you need bomb-trucks for other targets, then you mount hardpoints onto the 35. USN Super Hornet's latest iteration was being flogged along similar lines: LO weps pod for day-one, then all the noisy hardpoints for afterwards. Besides, stealth/LO is only partof what the new gen is about. Network-centricity is another. Regarding UCAVs, I'm not sure Musk is talking about fully autonomous platforms. You can rely on AI to help a remote pilot overcome the many limitations of piloting remotely, but you can still have a human on the stick, albeit generally out of harm's way.
4 F35's carrying 4 internal weapons is probably more than enough to get the objective done. And if not, they can certainly load up more jets to do what is needed. It's not like they can only ever use one at a time per mission, in fact they are designed to be used in tandem or multiples with sensor fusion. Not to mention it can queue and target missiles and bombs strapped to adjacent, non-stealth platforms like the F15/F18.
You have no idea what you are talking about. F-35 is not a replacement F-117 or F-18... it is something entirely different. Like comparing F-4E to F-15A and saying you want the old jet back, scrap the Eagle... not knowing because of classification, that it is evolving into the F-22. F-35 can do that WITHOUT a new airframe. Modular AF, upgrades are under the skin.
I'm an engineer. From a very basic approach, anything that can do several roles does not do one thing well. At a minimum, there needs to be at least two. (1) Air superiority (2) bomb crap.
The Chinese (we are not 100% sure who) hacked, and downloaded 1.5 terabytes of information on the F35 fighter jet. "$300 billion dollars of funding (in 2009 dollars),down the drain. Every system, defense, offense, stealth, everything needed to build one or shoot it down, all gone". This was announced by the Dept of Defense on 21Apr2009.
If they said so I wouldn't trust it. Maybe 1.5 Terrabytes of sabotaged info. Definitely something I'd do if someone was trying to copy my homework. Let em spend billions and years throwing money at something that won't work- or better yet- complete info for systems and designs you've already figured out how to detect and target- let them build a bunch of flying targets. 1.5 Terrabytes in an unsecured folder named "all the F35 research- DONT LET CHINA STEAL THIS"
@@marshalljulie3676 I think you missed the point. The point is that the F35 due to its inherent faults and tech stolen by near peer (china), the plane's lethality, survivability and ultimately, viability has been severely compromised. So Elon is not far from the mark by saying that the F35 is obsolete and the return of investment in the plane is absolutely abysmal.
F-35 stealth? During the early Syria war didn’t the F-35 stay out of radar range? Does that so-called stealth actually work? I myself heard during a Congressional hearing that only 29% of US F-35 inventory is actually airworthy at any time.
I heard that one too. I thought they said 22% but your figure may be the correct one. Either way, if the US actually gets into a conflict with a major power, our F35s will likely be grounded due to maintenance issues.
It's not designed for war if the smallest things keep it grounded and not mission ready...we should be developing hypersonic missle technology not stealth
What Elon said about the F-35 is nothing new, since the start there were many questioning the decision to have one platform to fit everyone's needs. To say it's obsolete is premature, bombers and fighters from the 50's and 70's are still flying, still capable and are planned to serve for a while longer. AI and autonomous drones are the future no doubt, but it is still in the future, and currently Tesla still haven't fully figured out how to make autopilot work properly in their cars so.....
Also I heard the cost was due to the initial amount ordered. This figure of jet changed but the price did not, bumping the cost per jet up higher than what it was budgeted for.
I'm a vet and have been working in the defense contracting business for 28 years. Autonomy is gaining bigger and bigger strides in military tech but there will also need to be piloted aircraft for the foreseeable future. When I was working a modest program for the F-35 as a sub to Lockheed, I needed support from my own subs who when they found out it was for the F-35, immediately saw dollar signs. I think where DOGE can succeed is the overall cost of parts in the supply chain due to subcontractor overcharging. The F-35 is a good platform.......just need to bring down costs.
On the F35 program, Lockheed as prime contractor sub contracted to other parts of Lockheed and thereby jacked up the price for actual labor to a few bucks shy of $1000/hour (well over ten times what the worker was getting)
@douginorlando6260 I've worked on big proposals for big military programs when I was at Northrop. Yes, there are instances when a big company bids sections of their company as subs. It's called an internal work order, but what you say isn't accurate. If any sub, whether intracompany or external sub, doesn't need the prime contract price number, they get booted off the proposal. When Northrop came up with their bid on B-21, the total price was based on what's called Price To Win. If the bids exceed that number, which is either internal or provided by the military customer, Northrop leadership orders the proposal team to make adjustments. This is just a sliver of how industry bids on government contracts.
Sounds like the same problems that the Apache had 30 years ago. The more moving parts a weapon system has, the more bugs will need to be squashed and maintenance problems ironed out after rollout. Competitors have a huge incentive to make a big deal out of these so that the it gets decommissioned and replaced with their platform.
Nothing on it works never has the first 150 so bad trainng only the next 300 need totarebyulds due corrosion 54 % line ready at best that means I can fly not fight. It needs 2 engines and from there it's all down hill
@ Same complaints were made about the Apache. Including sand causing composite materials to delaminate. The more of a technological leap a system is the more problems have to be ironed out post-rollout. Usually systems that don’t work as intended under real-world conditions or things that are not as durable as expected.
@@kellygreenii this is not the same, apache was design for a purpose, F35 was not. you can't "iron out" wrong requirement issue. the main problem with the F35 is it has no true purpose. F22 does stealth better, F15 carry more bomb, F16 is way cheaper. there is a reason why it has the nickname "fat amy" among pilot. it is bloatware.
@@lagrangeweiYou know nothing. The F-35 is a series of flying super computers, tied to some of the most powerful sensors ever put in service, wrapped in a plane that is almost impossible to locate by the enemy. It is a force multiplier and will supercharge the US capability to engage and destroy the enemy before they even know they are under attack. It can act as a drone controller. And it can guide in missiles fired from other planes, most likely the F-15EX, using the next gen air to air missiles being delivered soon. It can also datalink with every other asset, acting as a mini awacs and information center.
Elon is correct, but drone technology isn’t there yet. So he is correct for the future. But drones are just as expensive as manned jets. The US has had drones hijacked and taken control of. So some improvements need to be made. Our tech is not there right now and neither is Teslas.
777 is a great howitzer. To make 5-6 shots a day. But in conditions when you need to shoot off a carload of conventional shells in a week, everything becomes less clear. How many days will an aircraft serve in a real conflict, when you need to make 5 sorties a day before it needs major repairs? And these sorties will have everything from bad weather to fire exposure. When gravel from close landings will be lying on the airfields, when service vehicles will gradually be knocked out by enemy fire.
We can't even make that many shells, so I wouldn't worry about it. Remember we sold out our manufacturing and there is no way in H I'm going back in there to save this oligarchy.
@@springbloom5940 Yup, when you blindly agree with russian state nedia and their pawns, about western military equipment, that's a great way to tell, you're not too good at that whole "logic" thing.
Elon is not entirely wrong, but we have the benefit of hindsight. The F35 A, C and Adir could have been one joint project. The B version should have been its own project.
F-35 is 23 years old airplane. Its still a very sophisticated, very capable platform, but 23 years is a lot the world where technological progress is mind boggling
From your description thr F35 program sounds like a traditional cooperate driven, overpriced, over engineered, poorly planned, typical waterfall project.
yeah, selling junk to our allies means we lose our allies. this model is making America look worse and worse. we do not need ANY maned war vehicles anymore at all
Not at all. Extremely low accident rate per flight hours and amount of aircraft made, great stealth, best radar on a fighter in the world, best ecm suite in the world, best sensors and countermeasure system in the world, low fuel costs due to engine efficiency, best data fusion in the world, best internal layout in the world, and has access to a whole lot of advanced munitions. It’s only downside is that it’s the second best air superiority jet in the world because the F-22 is better at that due to speed and stealth advantage, and that its newer so some problems may need ironing out. And another downside may be low weapons load in stealth mode but that’s made up for by higher air to air hit rates because it can fire missiles closer to targets without being seen and the air to ground munitions are more accurate so you need less.
I remember when the F-4 came out and all the problems with it. The F-4 ending up being a great fighter. McNamara's F-111 was a multi- purpose fighter. Had terrain following which cost several crews their lives. Designed to do too many things. All said and done, it worked out fine. The F- 15, 16, 18, and A-10, have been great aircraft for said roles. Over 1000 F-35's have been built, so it's here to stay and hopefully will aquit itself well.
F111 was a shit show... no it wasnt multi purpose the only people that say that are the idiots that think it wasnt anything other than an expensive death trap
Don. If the F35 is as successful as the F111 or MRCA, it will be a dud. The F15 and F16 did not get anything like this level of criticism. Let's not rewrite history.
if a plane has a system failure once per hour, its a very bad design of the jet, which is what elon pointed out, mass wast of money when the f-22 and f-15 fill those roles just fine, no need for 35;s
The F-35 doesn't have a system failure once per hour. In the nearly 1 million flight hours, no aircraft have been lost due to a "system failure." The aircraft has successfully flown thousands of combat missions, including in heavily defended airspace, demonstrating excellent reliability.
@@Mike-bp2tu Which system is failing every hour? What do you know about the F-35 system design? How does that imply a systems failure en masse? What levels of redundancy are there on or offboard? What about other aircraft; is this unique or commonplace for fast jets? You're saying a lot of things but none of them are well supported by the information available
This comes from the man who's own cyber truck demonstration was an absolute comedy, you cant break the window "CRACK". Cant wait to see how many things Elon can break ..
@ If you knew anything at all you’d realize his comment was idiotic. He’s not an engineer at SpaceX, and he thinks low light cameras can detect stealth aircraft. Yeah, total genius buddy. Obviously you and your boy never heard of IRST and have no idea what you’re talking about.
@osuk1 Which was developed using NASA funds. How dont you understand that all these private space companies wouldn't exist without government funding?
The real debate is one of these 3 paradigms 1) is the human pilot the best weapon system 2) is a human piloted drone the best weapon system 3) is an autonomous drone the best weapon system No one thinks 3 is a good idea as no one trusts a machine to do all the thinking. From buggy programming to sensor limitations the machines will not always be able to do what humans do easily. The second one has some merits but is limited by sensors and what the drone pilot can see as well as connectivity problems.
What are your thoughts about supplemental Block 70 F16s to bolster the mission envelope that the F35 is supposed to dominate? With new upgrades,Vipers can do almost anything the F35 can do except the LO component? Thoughts? Thank you for your amazing service and your current podcast and TH-cam channel.👍
The f22 was a purpose built air superiority aircraft and was a success. The f35 was a one size fits all replacement for several aging aircraft at an economical cost. It failed. The most expensive US procurement project in history. Bit the bullet and scrap it. The industrial military complex love it . Any idea why ? Lol 😮
Thanks 4 sharing. Belgium wisely cancelled F35; yet Singapore doubled down & exercised option 4 additional 8 x F35s to original order of just 8 x F35s. Late F16 chief design engineer Pierre, mentioned F35 will lose in dogfight against Hafez Assad or Anwar Sadat's Mig 21
The F-35 was designed 30 years ago. First flew 20 years ago. The world has moved on. It was just pork for congress people which is why they outsourced it to almost every state in the union. It's a committee plane. And by the way, the Abrams, the F15 and the Apache have never proved themselves in combat against a 1st world adversary. In fact, the Abrams is a white elephant. It spends 10 x as much time in the shop as it does on the field.
It has seen alot of action but none of said action was challenging. Its like training to fight the best yet only ever be thrown at beginners. Does that prove that your training was on point? Weapons are proven in actual peer to peer wars not insurgence suppression.
Like all US military kit and the us armed forces, only good against goat here sees who can’t shoot back, against an enemy who can shoot back it’s garbage. M1 has been shown to be massive inferior to the better gunned and armoured challenger, eg it does not take much( to knock it out. F35 the plane that spends 70% of the time now working. Ukraine has shown US overly expensive glass cannons are not good in a shooting war.
Fun fact about the F-35 that might've been missed. Around 2 minutes in, gentleman here says "with it (the F-35) being a single airframe, you'd think that would drive costs down" The thing is, it's not a single airframe, the plane has all different dimensions depending on the variant. They're not exactly interchangeable either, as far as parts go.
Aircraft engineer here. I worked on a bunch of different planes, mainly commercial ones. All I hear from guys who've worked on the F35 is always the same. The thing is a complete dud, a maintenance nightmare.
Disagree. Musk doesn’t understand modern warfare as much as he thinks he does. The F35 basically fills the same role as the F/A-18 does. It is a stealth fighter…and it is a stealth ground attack platform using precision guided munitions A role that has been given to modified fighter platforms going all the way back to the F-15E. The idea that human pilots can be done away with in favor of drones is sheer lunacy….and Musk trying to line his own pockets. Drones will probably take over most of the close air support role…it won’t take it over completely until you can replicate the firepower of an Apache and its ability to hover over a battlefield.
Exactly what is needed. The time of pure air to air fighters is over. Anything that does air to air competently also needs the capacity to do air to ground after air superiority is won.
a failure of a plane system every hour, is a mass failure on the design of the jet. you dont have to be Elon Musk to point that out, which is what he did. and AI will replace jets considering we have a pilot shortage, and with the abundance of unmanned aerial vehicles on the market, the need for manned aircraft is not getting any higher.
@@Mike-bp2tu An autonomous, AI driven fighter jet is far far in the future, particularly for something as complex and chaotic and inherently risky for the own troops as close air support. Read first hand accounts of CAS in the last few wars, the split second decisions that need to be made to safely identify the target and avoid friendly fire incidents and you know that an AI is not going to be able to do it. When now for years an AI is not even able to reliably do 2D driving in traffic. An AI that can to CAS is not happening in the forseeable future.
@@kevinblackburn3198 The F35 has been flown in combat and it worked. It has not been flown against similar level systems because no war of that type has happened yet. So we do not know how it's going to perform when the big one against China is taking off.
if a system on a plane fails continually once an hour, that is a mass failure of the design of the systems, hence the legal battle israel is having over the supply chain of systems for their planes. you literally dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that redundancy is key, and systems failures on that level are a recipe for disaster.
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM with "manned" fighters is the pilot is limited in the g-forces they can tolerate. Non-piloted drone fighters can pull many more g's.
As a veteran can say with 100% certainty that low tech always beats high tech. The F35 same as the F16 is one SAM from “gone”. The military with 1000 ford f150’s will defeat the military with 100 Abrahams tanks.
Why they stopped producing the f22? The same thing will happen to the NGAD program, overcosts, overpriced, etc. Too much money is being spent on something that the Chinese and Russians would do with much less expense, the entire US military industry should be changed because there are many things behind it, including deception, scams, such as the F35, which, with what it cost, should be the best in everything and without flaws. If they were smart, which they don't seem to be, they would use that money to increase production of the F22 and improvements to the fighter, such as making it multiroll, IRST radar, improved avionics and missiles, etc. The F35 was stillborn. The Allies buy them because they believe in the US and trust them, but deep down they know they were scammed. With those sold F35s they could create or improve their own fighters and do something better. That's what Elon is referring to, although he is taking advantage of the situation because he wants to take over the military industry as well since he lost capital, or so I think he is doing, but he is right in what he says.
I'd rather focus on the F-35 and retire the F-22 until the navy F/A-XX rolls out. F-22s are old, expensive and hard to maintain. Would not fare well for the next major war.
We need to go back to the notion that a weapon system needs to be delivered in a "ready to fight" condition. Both the F-35 program and the Littoral Combat Ship program suffered - and still suffer - from the attitude of "Let us build the vehicle, and by the time it's out of the factory or the shipyard, we'll have the weapon systems ready." So the airframes and the ships are there, but the combat systems are woefully unready for combat.
Musk knows FAR more about automation and machine learning. He has contacts in silicon valley and knows what is coming down the pipe. the US military already has unmanned vehicles at sea, and undersea to counter the chinese threat. an unmanned platform is FAR cheaper and can be deployed in FAR more numerous numbers than a manned aircraft. in my city, subway trains are unmanned, and run on schedule. for the cost of ONE F35 and its upkeep, we can easily have TEN unmanned platforms that have far more range and can loiter longer and work together. the F35 is a turkey. Fine, use legacy platforms like the F15-EX and F16, but spending new incremental dollars on manned aircraft MAKES NO SENSE.
What exactly do we need stealth jets for when we have thousands of nukes, regular jets, tanks, and millions upon millions of americans with hand guns. In short we are not using these high tech weapons to defend but go on the offense. And that offense is highly questionable.
You think they don't know that? The chinese and russians do the opposite of the US, people laugh at them but the US should create their fighters as the Russians do, slowly, innovating, improving little by little, the Su 57 that everyone laughed at has now improved a lot, it is much cheaper than the F22, and it has more things than the F22 and the F35, with 3D flat nozzle engines, the F35 engine is worse than the Su30 engines, with so many faults and it is the most expensive program in the history of aviation, for that to be the case the F35 should have no rivals, if the russians and chinese create better things with much less money, what do you think the russians would do with the budget of the F35 program? Although I think they would save part of the money and continue making cheaper but effective things... Sometimes, more expensive is not equal to better, sometimes cheap>>>>>Expensive but it all depends on the context
Fallacy: Cost savings didn't result. Fact: The flyaway cost of the individual aircraft is one component of the life cycle cost. The most expensive part of the lifecycle is design. Multiply that by three if three separate aircraft were to be designed. The program lifecycle costs include setting up factories and end-of-life tear down costs of those factories and scrapping of airframes in an environmentally acceptable way. All those costs are reduced by one third, so the total program cost is less than the cost of designing, testing, fielding, supporting, and ultimately de-activating the fleet. Also: the pilots seem to love the plane. That's the main thing I care about and the truest test. As far as Elon, if he has a hypothesis that manned aircraft are obsolete, then instead of blabbing on X he should put together a proposal for our special forces, who are allowed to purchase without the constraints of the defense acquisition system.
The US Military maintains a 20 year gap between what civilians have in the USA and what they have. GPS was being used by the US Military 20 years before it showed up in the 1st smart phones. They're not making a big deal about AI because of Chat GTP or any low end AI you can get, they're making a big deal about AI because of what the military has and it's way different than what y'all have you just won't be introduced to it till the military needs to use it
How about making comparison of F-35 and F-15 with electronics upgraded to same level, and assume that enemy found way to overcome stealth feature of F-35.
I big factor about AI people fail to consider is just how expensive it is. The size computer required to have human responses and situational awareness would be massive even today. Humans are actually super efficient computers we need a lot less power to run very very complicated software. Flight costs might actually go up with AI planes as a lot of energy would be required to run the flight programs. Humans are cheaper than robots.
Solar tiles expert (see the results yesterday) Hyperloop expert (see the results today), Electric cars expert (see the results tomorrow), mission to Mars expert.. well.. judge yourself..now jet fighters expert???
The most important thing is not even the 1.7trillion cost in the end, it is the inevitability that it will cause you to lose the war in a prolonged scenario. I predict that the US will have to rely on mothballed legacy aircrafts to replace the F35, at some points in a future war. And the pilots and ground crews will thank them for it.
When I heard the Chief of Staff of the Air Force defend this as a replacement for the A-10 by saying...maybe we need to redefine what Close Air Suppport is...I new this was a crock of sh!t. I was still Active Duty Air Force Aircrew at the time. The Air Force tried the one aircraft can do it all plan, when it really is several airplanes.
For all those saying Russia and China spend 50% of their budgets on the military , consider this , the USA spends more on its military than any other nation. In fact , of the top 10 militaries , the U.S. spends more than the other 9 COMBINED !
Its stealth only if the enemy has no air defence system😂😂😂😂😂
Wrong, you can see it but you cannot target it, this was demonstrated in IRAN
@@bittripper3530 - Only for a several years until radar technology improves again. These things happen in cycles.
@@bittripper3530 Iran does not have a decent air defence system, try with Russia S-500 and then come back
F-35 is the most expensive lemon in the history of lemons.
Every US weapon system cost much, much more than an equivalent would in
Russia or China.
That's only because there IS no equivalent in Russia or China.
Comparing pre production & tofu isn't viable to something that has been around for 2.5 decades or something that can actually be listed under CCCC integration system.
What are you saying? The vaunted Abrams tank can't withstand Russian shovel attacks, because according to western military sources Russia ran out of missiles and tanks in May 2022, yet they're being destroyed in the battlefield. I have a feeling the stealth money pits will fair about the same. Them damn shovels.
@@fire398017and that’s a good thing…for them
Read “The Weakling Wunderwaffe” extract “Peace-time “Full Mission Capable” rates: F-35A: ~35%; F-35B: ~15%; F-35C: ~30%”
When you aren't building R&D costs into the manufacturing process because you stole the designs, the costs of production are going to be lower.
When it takes almost 30 bloody years to develop an aircraft, is it really such a surprise when it's obsolete on delivery?
It is not obsolete. It is ahead of its time.
@@martinjrgensen8234 Correct. It's a command and control jet, runs the battle space and is modular enough to be flown for many decades to come. The new Longshot missile on F-15EX as F-35's missile "trucks"... means we don't need NGAD anymore.
That's how fighter jet development works. I guarantee you we are twenty years deep into developing it's replacement and ten years into the one after that.
@@andrewsheek Something seriously changed for them to suspend/cancel the NGAD program. We might be in the interwar years from WWI to WWII... the BF-109, Kitty Hawk and Spitfire are in the pipeline... Biplane/Highwing aircraft obsolete overnight.
Obviously you don’t know how aviation engineering works and it shows
The purpose of the F35 is not being a good fighter jet, it's maximum financial gains for the military industrial complex and the shareholders on the expanse of the taxpayers - and the F35 is exceptional successful at that.....
💯
^^This!
@@Screaming-Trees 💯💯💯💯💯💯
You are Right. It would have been better to have copied the Russian system by using 1 platform and keep on advancing it. Very soon drones will soon start taking out jets
Well said...
Rain damages its sensitive stealth coating....hmmm the solution is don't use it in the rain....Problem solved!!!
Or off an aircraft carrier.
And don’t leave it out in the cold when it has been stored inside: condensation 😀
Ukraine showed us that it's all about missiles and drones. With hypersonic missiles, we know that there are now only two types of ships, subs and targets. In a war against Russia or China our carriers wouldn't last an hour.
So why is China building carriers?
During the cold war it was already the case, subs are the real warship, the others are huge targets.
LoL war against china and russia😂😂😂 u need to get out this hallucination fed by your hypocrite liar govt..there will never be such things as WAR against china and russia in nuclear age...yall warmericans can't even win against PYJAMA GOAT HEADERS😂
Ukraine doesn't have an airfleet of F-35s. You couldn't judge the situation. They fight with what they have. Who knows what could have been if Ukraine had more modern jets/missiles/tanks.
Skyeplus. There are no wunderwaffe. The Germans had Stg44s, Panthers and Me262s, but still got beat.
I'm Canadian and did a career in the military followed by the defense industry. I've always thought the F-35 was going to be a bucket of problems, especially for a small air force like ours. It's a hangar queen, too expensive to acquire and way too expensive to operate for us. In an actual war, we'll run out of them in a mission or two and be left with nothing to fight with in the air except what gen2 or 3 aircraft we can scavenge from what we might have tucked away. It might eventually work well for an air force like the USAF or USN, but even then it's complexity means that it is not going to be available for use in combat at its peak capabilities more often than not. I was on the side of the RCAF acquiring the J-39E Grippen but unfortunately we lost that fight.
Just ask Russians sell you yak-141. Yankee steal all from Yak, just make cost 100x😅 Yak-141 like a hammer, don’t broke and cheap…
Both are overpriced and expensive to maintain or keep in the air. Both were built to make the maximum amount of money and keep making that money by the companies involved in their development and manufacture. Of course nobody will admit this other than those that fly them and have to maintain them or know the costs associated to these aspects and are honest enough to admit it , let alone admit it publicly.
Yak 141 was an absolute dud.
@@Samuel-hd3cp he said she said my dads gun is bigger than your dads. What are ? 12?
You expect Gripen winning an air combat against Su57 or J20? Were you really in the military?
Military industrial complex waste of money
noting in the MIC is designed to be a frugal expense, so you're basically stating an obvious fact about any system.
Truth indeed. Most people will never realize or admit how big a waste.
So what do we needs as far as national defense is concerned? I hear comments like yours from people who do not have a clue about the military or what the country needs as for as the military is concerned.
@@michaelmappin4425 Ok, Mr. Navy man............................Then what do you suggest?
@charlesdriggers199 Fair point. We need to keep checks on what politicians are able to do with contracts that only benefit their voters. We also need experience in the SECDEF and individual force secretary's offices to ensure waste is controlled and needs more specifically looked at. I was a 26 year veteran and can identify a number of cost savings efforts that could immediately be put in place. There are also significant training deficiencies that have gone unaddressed for years. I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but as SECDEF, I could use a pen to fix a number of problems that would stop waste, increase combat effectiveness, improve morale, and drive up enlistments/reenlistments. Many problems are complicated by people just like me. I know a number of people who set themselves up for follow-on contactor jobs to pad their retirement. A number of problems will take years to fix, but we need to get started.
The F-35 is one of the best planes that incompetence and corporate corruption can buy.
The F35s attacking Iran recently were lit up 100 miles from the border. They turned tail.
Really you know that do you
Not what I've heard.
I'm glad you posted this comment. The reality is that Iranian radar painted the F-35s on the way to their targets and were forced to RTB. Oddly, the initial stories that reported the incident have disappeared, almost like they were censored. Bottom line is when your enemy can target you 100 miles out, you don't have a stealth aircraft.
Well, most stealth aircraft can be detected, but getting a targeting solution is a different beast
This has been confirmed. Afterwards the story got censored.
People who say the F-35 is combat proven by Israel is like saying an F1 car is ready to win a race because it managed to turn on the engines and drive 3 steps far
The F-35 is not battle tested against real opponents that have a propper air force, real air defence and more
Its a mess of a platform that has some incredible sensors and electronics packet into it but that still does not guarantee that the aircraft itself is a good, reliable and sustainable weapon system
Name one likely opponent hat has a 'proper' air force ! Possibly China but it's an untested/unknown entity.
Let's avoid a nerve wracking situation that might escalate to dangerous level or proportions just to see, verify or check how good the f35 is. At least there is a company who tried their best to cool down the bad guys.
hmmm how about Iran s400 sistems(the mighty russian air defence )??? why they didnt shut down none of Israel airplane when they got bombed ????
@@rockytorres958 "atleast there is a company that tried cool down the bad guys" ?
What are you like 12?
@@rockytorres958 "atleast there is a company who tried cool down the bad guys" ?
What are you like 12?
F-35 spends more time on the ground than it does in the air.. they should remame it ''The Emu''.. after Australia's largest flightless bird. You could have bought 200 of them, they dont fly, dont carry weapons, but they dont cost $100 million each either...
😂😂😂😂😂😂
So basically, it's a big flying Audi. If you sneeze too hard in the vehicle you get a fault code. Great.
The f35 is a disarster. No more of them.
It's the most successful 5th gen platform ever . That's why everyone keeps wanting them
As an F35 mechanic, I agree with Elon. Especially the B model. Alot of responsibility for a single engine aircraft. Way over complex.
more people need to read this comment and stop bootlicking the 35 lmao
How do the pilots feel? You realize that the Hornet and Viper replaced as many or more types of aircraft, right?
@rogerbiggerstaff3293 Who cares about pilots' feelings? The F35 is not practical, a billion moving parts, and a logistical nightmare. It practically flies itself. There is no need for a pilot.
That's the crux of the matter. Too much for a single engine.
@@seanp9277 You realize that twin engine jets are even more expensive, right? Furthermore, if you compare unit cost vs new build 4th generation jets, the F-35 is less expensive. The unit cost for those jets don't include targeting/navigation/IRST/jamming pods, or external/conformal fuel tanks, which is how those jets would be configured in combat.
Autonomous taxis are 'a year away' according to Musk and have been for at least a decade.
Not to mention they keep crashing!
Musk's opinions are vastly over-rated. Remember this is the guy who supposedly came up with the hyperloop idea that already existed in science fiction and thought it could work. A billion wasted dollars later all the companies working on the idea have all but shut up shop yet a single COMPETENT engineer (which Musk certainly isn't) could see all the flaws and cost underestimations a mile off.
The F35 as a ground attack plane is really a joke. In order to pack enough ordinance to be an effective platform, bombs, missiles ect would have to be deployed on hard points outs the ordinance bay rendering stealth a mute point. At this point with the internal bay only setup, we could achieve the same thing with the F117. Without stealth, the F16 and F15 E are better choices. This doesn't even go into the cooling issue due to the inadequate engine capacity. The thing is an albatross.
I thought a key point to stealth/LO was to have a day-one platform to take out ground-based hostile AD.
Once opposing force's AD is down, and you need bomb-trucks for other targets, then you mount hardpoints onto the 35.
USN Super Hornet's latest iteration was being flogged along similar lines: LO weps pod for day-one, then all the noisy hardpoints
for afterwards.
Besides, stealth/LO is only partof what the new gen is about.
Network-centricity is another.
Regarding UCAVs, I'm not sure Musk is talking about fully autonomous platforms.
You can rely on AI to help a remote pilot overcome the many limitations of piloting remotely, but you can still have a human on the stick,
albeit generally out of harm's way.
4 F35's carrying 4 internal weapons is probably more than enough to get the objective done. And if not, they can certainly load up more jets to do what is needed. It's not like they can only ever use one at a time per mission, in fact they are designed to be used in tandem or multiples with sensor fusion. Not to mention it can queue and target missiles and bombs strapped to adjacent, non-stealth platforms like the F15/F18.
You have no idea what you are talking about. F-35 is not a replacement F-117 or F-18... it is something entirely different. Like comparing F-4E to F-15A and saying you want the old jet back, scrap the Eagle... not knowing because of classification, that it is evolving into the F-22. F-35 can do that WITHOUT a new airframe. Modular AF, upgrades are under the skin.
moot
That's why it has the f-15 and the F-16 that go with it genius
The fact that israel was unable to enter iran air space proves that f35 is junk😂😂😂😂😂😂
Quit lying
@@DarkAzreal Not a lie. The F-35s were painted by air defense radar and had to RTB long before they reached their intended target.
@@DarkAzrealstate actor
Defense Department costs me and other tax payers money
All militaries cost tax payers money. That's what defence is all about.
The famous f35 - The famous budget money laundering
You mean hyperloop?
That damn cyber truck is a scam
lol
It is already the best-selling EV truck. Stop spreading BS.
Well, Musk didn't spend 1.7 TRILLION of taxpayers money to build them.
I'm an engineer. From a very basic approach, anything that can do several roles does not do one thing well. At a minimum, there needs to be at least two. (1) Air superiority (2) bomb crap.
It's a Jack of all things and a master of none.
The Chinese (we are not 100% sure who) hacked, and downloaded 1.5 terabytes of information on the F35 fighter jet. "$300 billion dollars of funding (in 2009 dollars),down the drain. Every system, defense, offense, stealth, everything needed to build one or shoot it down, all gone". This was announced by the Dept of Defense on 21Apr2009.
If they said so I wouldn't trust it. Maybe 1.5 Terrabytes of sabotaged info. Definitely something I'd do if someone was trying to copy my homework. Let em spend billions and years throwing money at something that won't work- or better yet- complete info for systems and designs you've already figured out how to detect and target- let them build a bunch of flying targets. 1.5 Terrabytes in an unsecured folder named "all the F35 research- DONT LET CHINA STEAL THIS"
@@DrDRE4391 Su Bin... Google him. I wrote a paper on him in a cyber security masters course
as if u.s never stole from others..... in fact a whole team of na zi rocket scientists for their space and missile program....
😂I mean US used to steal Soviet equipment covertly well it went both ways if you don't like to get dirty don't play in the mud🤷
@@marshalljulie3676 I think you missed the point. The point is that the F35 due to its inherent faults and tech stolen by near peer (china), the plane's lethality, survivability and ultimately, viability has been severely compromised. So Elon is not far from the mark by saying that the F35 is obsolete and the return of investment in the plane is absolutely abysmal.
1 million battle drones for $1T will be way more effective than 2,500 F35 for $1.7T.
A $1,000 drone would be easily disabled by decades old EW equipment.
@@JP-fq5zjNow india can also shut down f35..iran gave thir technology warfare system
For $1 Trillion you could buy a billion $1,000 drones.
No AAA in the world could survive an attack on that scale.
@@Funnyclips-mp8xv EW can interfere with certain systems on a manned aircraft, but I've never heard tell of a plane being shut down with it.
@@JP-fq5zj Who said anything about ($1000) drones?
F-35 stealth? During the early Syria war didn’t the F-35 stay out of radar range? Does that so-called stealth actually work? I myself heard during a Congressional hearing that only 29% of US F-35 inventory is actually airworthy at any time.
I heard that one too. I thought they said 22% but your figure may be the correct one. Either way, if the US actually gets into a conflict with a major power, our F35s will likely be grounded due to maintenance issues.
For every 1 hr they fly, they need 6 hrs of mantance.
It's not designed for war if the smallest things keep it grounded and not mission ready...we should be developing hypersonic missle technology not stealth
Russia was developing and producing the best mouse trap whilst the west collectively creating expensive hi tech mouse .. with big profits in mind
Or maybe stop starting shit in other countries?
@@keywacat that too...but doesn't hurt to have some deterrence
the airforce paid $100 grands for a small ziploc bag of steel bushings. That was the ultimate scam.
Yet yall brag about the $800 billion budget when it’s filled with money laundering
@@Jay-om8gr who's bragging? moi? ce n'est pas moi.
What Elon said about the F-35 is nothing new, since the start there were many questioning the decision to have one platform to fit everyone's needs.
To say it's obsolete is premature, bombers and fighters from the 50's and 70's are still flying, still capable and are planned to serve for a while longer.
AI and autonomous drones are the future no doubt, but it is still in the future, and currently Tesla still haven't fully figured out how to make autopilot work properly in their cars so.....
Tesla still hasn't figured out what QC is so I take musk's opinions on military tech with a few pounds of salt😂
I disagree that AI is every going to take over . Drones are a thing, but To think they will fully take the place of maned flight is bridge too far.
1.7T a fair number? Show me that execs didn't take some that for bonuses first..
thats the cost over 80 Years!!
Also I heard the cost was due to the initial amount ordered. This figure of jet changed but the price did not, bumping the cost per jet up higher than what it was budgeted for.
and politicians too
@@KiingOfKombatstill too much
I'm a vet and have been working in the defense contracting business for 28 years. Autonomy is gaining bigger and bigger strides in military tech but there will also need to be piloted aircraft for the foreseeable future. When I was working a modest program for the F-35 as a sub to Lockheed, I needed support from my own subs who when they found out it was for the F-35, immediately saw dollar signs. I think where DOGE can succeed is the overall cost of parts in the supply chain due to subcontractor overcharging. The F-35 is a good platform.......just need to bring down costs.
The Eurofighter program is a brilliant example of how we keep costs low over here in the UK (because we have to). Couldn't agree more.
FINALLY! Someone here that is showing common sense. Thank you.
On the F35 program, Lockheed as prime contractor sub contracted to other parts of Lockheed and thereby jacked up the price for actual labor to a few bucks shy of $1000/hour (well over ten times what the worker was getting)
@douginorlando6260 I've worked on big proposals for big military programs when I was at Northrop. Yes, there are instances when a big company bids sections of their company as subs. It's called an internal work order, but what you say isn't accurate. If any sub, whether intracompany or external sub, doesn't need the prime contract price number, they get booted off the proposal. When Northrop came up with their bid on B-21, the total price was based on what's called Price To Win. If the bids exceed that number, which is either internal or provided by the military customer, Northrop leadership orders the proposal team to make adjustments.
This is just a sliver of how industry bids on government contracts.
Sounds like the same problems that the Apache had 30 years ago.
The more moving parts a weapon system has, the more bugs will need to be squashed and maintenance problems ironed out after rollout.
Competitors have a huge incentive to make a big deal out of these so that the it gets decommissioned and replaced with their platform.
Working for UK defence, I can confirm that I have absolutely zero vested interest.
Nothing on it works never has the first 150 so bad trainng only the next 300 need totarebyulds due corrosion 54 % line ready at best that means I can fly not fight. It needs 2 engines and from there it's all down hill
@ Same complaints were made about the Apache. Including sand causing composite materials to delaminate.
The more of a technological leap a system is the more problems have to be ironed out post-rollout. Usually systems that don’t work as intended under real-world conditions or things that are not as durable as expected.
@@kellygreenii this is not the same, apache was design for a purpose, F35 was not. you can't "iron out" wrong requirement issue. the main problem with the F35 is it has no true purpose. F22 does stealth better, F15 carry more bomb, F16 is way cheaper. there is a reason why it has the nickname "fat amy" among pilot. it is bloatware.
@@lagrangeweiYou know nothing. The F-35 is a series of flying super computers, tied to some of the most powerful sensors ever put in service, wrapped in a plane that is almost impossible to locate by the enemy. It is a force multiplier and will supercharge the US capability to engage and destroy the enemy before they even know they are under attack. It can act as a drone controller. And it can guide in missiles fired from other planes, most likely the F-15EX, using the next gen air to air missiles being delivered soon. It can also datalink with every other asset, acting as a mini awacs and information center.
Air superiority is obsolete.
If that’s the case why did Elon musk mention drones?
Elon is correct, but drone technology isn’t there yet. So he is correct for the future. But drones are just as expensive as manned jets. The US has had drones hijacked and taken control of. So some improvements need to be made. Our tech is not there right now and neither is Teslas.
No Musk is clueless. I'd hate to see a self driving drone, Musk cannot even get his cars to work right
777 is a great howitzer. To make 5-6 shots a day. But in conditions when you need to shoot off a carload of conventional shells in a week, everything becomes less clear. How many days will an aircraft serve in a real conflict, when you need to make 5 sorties a day before it needs major repairs? And these sorties will have everything from bad weather to fire exposure. When gravel from close landings will be lying on the airfields, when service vehicles will gradually be knocked out by enemy fire.
We can't even make that many shells, so I wouldn't worry about it. Remember we sold out our manufacturing and there is no way in H I'm going back in there to save this oligarchy.
The moment RT started bashing it some years ago, all my doubts were washed away about that plane. 😂
@@bbcc-p7w
Thats called 'brainwashing'
yup, same with anything Pierre Sprey ever got on TV about and criticised
@avroarchitect1793
Thats how you can tell you're in a cult
@@springbloom5940
Yup, when you blindly agree with russian state nedia and their pawns, about western military equipment, that's a great way to tell, you're not too good at that whole "logic" thing.
Elon is not entirely wrong, but we have the benefit of hindsight. The F35 A, C and Adir could have been one joint project. The B version should have been its own project.
I am hoping we are not dealing with another round of the McNamara syndrome. It didn’t work out well last time.
F-35 is 23 years old airplane. Its still a very sophisticated, very capable platform, but 23 years is a lot the world where technological progress is mind boggling
Chima especially if it's basically a flying computer.......
From your description thr F35 program sounds like a traditional cooperate driven, overpriced, over engineered, poorly planned, typical waterfall project.
These tech bros forget the F-35 is a great SaaS like export product that equals GDP for us.
yeah, selling junk to our allies means we lose our allies. this model is making America look worse and worse. we do not need ANY maned war vehicles anymore at all
And is still a total piece of crap
Not at all. Extremely low accident rate per flight hours and amount of aircraft made, great stealth, best radar on a fighter in the world, best ecm suite in the world, best sensors and countermeasure system in the world, low fuel costs due to engine efficiency, best data fusion in the world, best internal layout in the world, and has access to a whole lot of advanced munitions. It’s only downside is that it’s the second best air superiority jet in the world because the F-22 is better at that due to speed and stealth advantage, and that its newer so some problems may need ironing out. And another downside may be low weapons load in stealth mode but that’s made up for by higher air to air hit rates because it can fire missiles closer to targets without being seen and the air to ground munitions are more accurate so you need less.
The navy f35s variant is getting corrosion from the sea water
Well damn it.
Corrosion is normal it can be on any aircraft honestly
@r2com641 the corrosion strips away the stealth coating on the f35s making it obsolete for radar detector by The enemy
@ before combat mission they put new layer, it’s normal, su57 is same
I remember when the F-4 came out and all the problems with it. The F-4 ending up being a great fighter. McNamara's F-111 was a multi- purpose fighter. Had terrain following which cost several crews their lives. Designed to do too many things. All said and done, it worked out fine. The F- 15, 16, 18, and A-10, have been great aircraft for said roles. Over 1000 F-35's have been built, so it's here to stay and hopefully will aquit itself well.
F111 was a shit show... no it wasnt multi purpose the only people that say that are the idiots that think it wasnt anything other than an expensive death trap
@@jonnybgoode7742opinionated... Got any facts?
Can’t even stop a few drones.
Don. If the F35 is as successful as the F111 or MRCA, it will be a dud.
The F15 and F16 did not get anything like this level of criticism. Let's not rewrite history.
I don't mind the F-35 but why did it cost 1.7 trillion dollars?? And continues to cost more. Why can't spending be reasonable?
Recently it Iran the stealth planes were all spotted and tracked by Iran, that’s why they had to fire its missiles form beyond radar range.
Tanks for the TRUTH, John. The ran away!
I worked in the military contractor business and I'm positive there is massive pork hidden in there.
So it was built by a AAA game studio... buggy as hell and some of the promised features will be patched in later.
The "Check Engine" light is always blinking on an F-35.
Do we have to lean on this guys every word? It was a statement made out of complete ignorance
if a plane has a system failure once per hour, its a very bad design of the jet, which is what elon pointed out, mass wast of money when the f-22 and f-15 fill those roles just fine, no need for 35;s
@Mike-bp2tu Tell me you're absolutely clueless without telling me you're absolutely clueless.
The F-35 doesn't have a system failure once per hour. In the nearly 1 million flight hours, no aircraft have been lost due to a "system failure." The aircraft has successfully flown thousands of combat missions, including in heavily defended airspace, demonstrating excellent reliability.
People worship the guy.
@@Mike-bp2tu Which system is failing every hour? What do you know about the F-35 system design? How does that imply a systems failure en masse? What levels of redundancy are there on or offboard? What about other aircraft; is this unique or commonplace for fast jets? You're saying a lot of things but none of them are well supported by the information available
Elon should concentrate on getting the rain censors to work on Teslas before he worries about jet fighters.
Europeans enjoy free healthcare while we pay for crap like this aircraft. Thank God the Boomers are almost all gone. This madness must end.
He’s too busy rescuing astronauts from the ISS stranded by incompetence of the wisdom of current prevailing expert theories…
"Rain censors"? You want rain cancelled? 😳
Ironic since the F-35 "Lightning" can't even fly when it sprinkles out.
This comes from the man who's own cyber truck demonstration was an absolute comedy, you cant break the window "CRACK". Cant wait to see how many things Elon can break ..
Probably the only thing I have ever agreed with Elon on and thats a shock to me.
How much has it cost to produce and has it delivered results ?
20-years now dicking around with this boondoggle ~ never fired a shot in anger! It's an embarrassing flop!
@@DennisMerwood So people are so afraid of it they won't even dare to challenge it? Sounds pretty good to me!
@@JP-fq5zj WRONG! The Yanks are scared shitless to put it into conflict.
They know it's a flop.
One being shot own will be bad for sales!
@@JP-fq5zj WRONG! The Yanks are scared shitless to put it into conflict.
They know it's a flop.
One being shot own will be bad for sales!
A shitload and no!!
What contest airspace has the F35 ever operated in? Name one please.
Elon knows as much about air power as an OF model knows about modesty.
Yup he's only responsible for making America Space Flight Capable again... what does he know 😂
@ If you knew anything at all you’d realize his comment was idiotic. He’s not an engineer at SpaceX, and he thinks low light cameras can detect stealth aircraft. Yeah, total genius buddy.
Obviously you and your boy never heard of IRST and have no idea what you’re talking about.
Starlink! 👀 space program for a fraction of NASA's budget!🤗
@@steven530xHe takes tax payers money to launch rockets in the air. Something that was done in the 1950s.
@osuk1 Which was developed using NASA funds. How dont you understand that all these private space companies wouldn't exist without government funding?
The real debate is one of these 3 paradigms
1) is the human pilot the best weapon system
2) is a human piloted drone the best weapon system
3) is an autonomous drone the best weapon system
No one thinks 3 is a good idea as no one trusts a machine to do all the thinking. From buggy programming to sensor limitations the machines will not always be able to do what humans do easily.
The second one has some merits but is limited by sensors and what the drone pilot can see as well as connectivity problems.
What are your thoughts about supplemental Block 70 F16s to bolster the mission envelope that the F35 is supposed to dominate? With new upgrades,Vipers can do almost anything the F35 can do except the LO component? Thoughts? Thank you for your amazing service and your current podcast and TH-cam channel.👍
If you have F-35s, there's no need for additional F-16s, as they can't do everything the F-35 does.
I understand that’s the plan….
The f22 was a purpose built air superiority aircraft and was a success. The f35 was a one size fits all replacement for several aging aircraft at an economical cost. It failed. The most expensive US procurement project in history. Bit the bullet and scrap it. The industrial military complex love it . Any idea why ? Lol 😮
JAS39 E-Version detecs the F35. Stealth is out. Costs 1/4 to operate compared to F35. Thank you and goodnight.
At what range? Stealth Delays detection and shrinks detection range.
I agree with him
The general in charge of the F35 called it Acquisition malfeasance. He knows
He should be going to jail!
Thanks 4 sharing. Belgium wisely cancelled F35; yet Singapore doubled down & exercised option 4 additional 8 x F35s to original order of just 8 x F35s. Late F16 chief design engineer Pierre, mentioned F35 will lose in dogfight against Hafez Assad or Anwar Sadat's Mig 21
The Abrams, The F15, The Apache, have all come under the same scrutiny. This is nothing new. This aircraft has seen a lot of action that being said.
Well then I guess that proves all the criticism of the F35 wrong, without actually addressing the criticism.
The F-35 was designed 30 years ago. First flew 20 years ago. The world has moved on. It was just pork for congress people which is why they outsourced it to almost every state in the union. It's a committee plane.
And by the way, the Abrams, the F15 and the Apache have never proved themselves in combat against a 1st world adversary. In fact, the Abrams is a white elephant. It spends 10 x as much time in the shop as it does on the field.
It has seen alot of action but none of said action was challenging. Its like training to fight the best yet only ever be thrown at beginners. Does that prove that your training was on point?
Weapons are proven in actual peer to peer wars not insurgence suppression.
I just wish they had got rid of the B model.
There's no need.
Like all US military kit and the us armed forces, only good against goat here sees who can’t shoot back, against an enemy who can shoot back it’s garbage.
M1 has been shown to be massive inferior to the better gunned and armoured challenger, eg it does not take much( to knock it out.
F35 the plane that spends 70% of the time now working.
Ukraine has shown US overly expensive glass cannons are not good in a shooting war.
Fun fact about the F-35 that might've been missed.
Around 2 minutes in, gentleman here says "with it (the F-35) being a single airframe, you'd think that would drive costs down"
The thing is, it's not a single airframe, the plane has all different dimensions depending on the variant. They're not exactly interchangeable either, as far as parts go.
ChatGPT is not trained to fly genius it's trained to CHAT.
I’m sure he was speaking metaphorically.
@@MarkLarma-r9x The entire aircraft is a metaphor.
War is obsolete. No need any fighters.
Pos overpriced and a glorified turd
Aircraft engineer here. I worked on a bunch of different planes, mainly commercial ones. All I hear from guys who've worked on the F35 is always the same. The thing is a complete dud, a maintenance nightmare.
I agree the f35 is a jack of all trades and a master of none
Disagree. Musk doesn’t understand modern warfare as much as he thinks he does.
The F35 basically fills the same role as the F/A-18 does. It is a stealth fighter…and it is a stealth ground attack platform using precision guided munitions
A role that has been given to modified fighter platforms going all the way back to the F-15E.
The idea that human pilots can be done away with in favor of drones is sheer lunacy….and Musk trying to line his own pockets.
Drones will probably take over most of the close air support role…it won’t take it over completely until you can replicate the firepower of an Apache and its ability to hover over a battlefield.
@@kellygreeniiagreed
Exactly what is needed. The time of pure air to air fighters is over. Anything that does air to air competently also needs the capacity to do air to ground after air superiority is won.
Master of stealth, sensor fusion, and situational awareness. Even F-22 don't have all 3 of these.
F-35 bad, Eurofighter based, Tempest based
Maybe Elon Musk is a scam?
I’ll go with the F35 being a scam
a failure of a plane system every hour, is a mass failure on the design of the jet. you dont have to be Elon Musk to point that out, which is what he did. and AI will replace jets considering we have a pilot shortage, and with the abundance of unmanned aerial vehicles on the market, the need for manned aircraft is not getting any higher.
@@Mike-bp2tu An autonomous, AI driven fighter jet is far far in the future, particularly for something as complex and chaotic and inherently risky for the own troops as close air support. Read first hand accounts of CAS in the last few wars, the split second decisions that need to be made to safely identify the target and avoid friendly fire incidents and you know that an AI is not going to be able to do it. When now for years an AI is not even able to reliably do 2D driving in traffic. An AI that can to CAS is not happening in the forseeable future.
@@kevinblackburn3198 The F35 has been flown in combat and it worked. It has not been flown against similar level systems because no war of that type has happened yet. So we do not know how it's going to perform when the big one against China is taking off.
How can a person BE a scam? Are you saying he's a scammer? How so?
If the F35 is so bad why do our Allies want them? And Israel is proving just how good it is.
Nah. Europe is dumping their orders
if a system on a plane fails continually once an hour, that is a mass failure of the design of the systems, hence the legal battle israel is having over the supply chain of systems for their planes. you literally dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that redundancy is key, and systems failures on that level are a recipe for disaster.
@@Mike-bp2tu Supply chains are always a problem for "new things" these days: Computers, Cars, Ships, and Planes.
@@jedijc5411 the systems shouldnt be failing, this isnt a supply chain issue bud.
They are forced to buy them
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM with "manned" fighters is the pilot is limited in the g-forces they can tolerate. Non-piloted drone fighters can pull many more g's.
He has some good points!
What a load of bovine fecal matter. Only somebody with little to no understanding of air combat would say so.
As a veteran can say with 100% certainty that low tech always beats high tech.
The F35 same as the F16 is one SAM from “gone”.
The military with 1000 ford f150’s will defeat the military with 100 Abrahams tanks.
I’d scrap the 35 program and reroute all funds to the 22, till the ngad comes alive. 🇺🇸
Why they stopped producing the f22? The same thing will happen to the NGAD program, overcosts, overpriced, etc. Too much money is being spent on something that the Chinese and Russians would do with much less expense, the entire US military industry should be changed because there are many things behind it, including deception, scams, such as the F35, which, with what it cost, should be the best in everything and without flaws. If they were smart, which they don't seem to be, they would use that money to increase production of the F22 and improvements to the fighter, such as making it multiroll, IRST radar, improved avionics and missiles, etc. The F35 was stillborn.
The Allies buy them because they believe in the US and trust them, but deep down they know they were scammed. With those sold F35s they could create or improve their own fighters and do something better.
That's what Elon is referring to, although he is taking advantage of the situation because he wants to take over the military industry as well since he lost capital, or so I think he is doing, but he is right in what he says.
Problem is they claim it would cost as much or more to relaunch the 22 than to design a totally new modern aircraft.
Or don't, let the UK develop the first 6th gen.
I'd rather focus on the F-35 and retire the F-22 until the navy F/A-XX rolls out. F-22s are old, expensive and hard to maintain. Would not fare well for the next major war.
Why would you scrap the F-35 for an inferior fighter?
We need to go back to the notion that a weapon system needs to be delivered in a "ready to fight" condition.
Both the F-35 program and the Littoral Combat Ship program suffered - and still suffer - from the attitude of "Let us build the vehicle, and by the time it's out of the factory or the shipyard, we'll have the weapon systems ready."
So the airframes and the ships are there, but the combat systems are woefully unready for combat.
*Breaking News* Narcissist gives opinion on something he knows nothing about.
You sure did. 😂
Musk knows FAR more about automation and machine learning. He has contacts in silicon valley and knows what is coming down the pipe. the US military already has unmanned vehicles at sea, and undersea to counter the chinese threat. an unmanned platform is FAR cheaper and can be deployed in FAR more numerous numbers than a manned aircraft.
in my city, subway trains are unmanned, and run on schedule. for the cost of ONE F35 and its upkeep, we can easily have TEN unmanned platforms that have far more range and can loiter longer and work together. the F35 is a turkey. Fine, use legacy platforms like the F15-EX and F16, but spending new incremental dollars on manned aircraft MAKES NO SENSE.
*No back up system, once the Computer is out, you're out, y'all remember that JAPANESE Pilot...*
Elon Musk is a joke also he's Tesla speciale cybertruck😂
Drones are great until the enemy learns how to defeat them, it's still incedibly difficult to hack a human being.
It’s also difficult to hack a wooden war club, something we may find ourselves using in the near future.
Wtf does musk know about advanced fighter jets?! hahaha
😂 You mean the same guy who revolutionised transportation and space technology and make 10 times cheaper? 😂😂
@@suleymanfe war and transportation are not in the same ballpark
@@suleymanfe because thats a fighter jet... yup makes sense
@@suleymanfe obviously if he can make it cheaper thats great. but obsolete? clueless.
@ you should check what others are doing, for example Baykar Kizilelma, UAV Air to Air Fighter jet and is very soon will be on service.
What exactly do we need stealth jets for when we have thousands of nukes, regular jets, tanks, and millions upon millions of americans with hand guns. In short we are not using these high tech weapons to defend but go on the offense. And that offense is highly questionable.
I'm sure the US adversaries are hoping the military listens to dippy elon.
You think they don't know that? The chinese and russians do the opposite of the US, people laugh at them but the US should create their fighters as the Russians do, slowly, innovating, improving little by little, the Su 57 that everyone laughed at has now improved a lot, it is much cheaper than the F22, and it has more things than the F22 and the F35, with 3D flat nozzle engines, the F35 engine is worse than the Su30 engines, with so many faults and it is the most expensive program in the history of aviation, for that to be the case the F35 should have no rivals, if the russians and chinese create better things with much less money, what do you think the russians would do with the budget of the F35 program? Although I think they would save part of the money and continue making cheaper but effective things... Sometimes, more expensive is not equal to better, sometimes cheap>>>>>Expensive but it all depends on the context
Fallacy: Cost savings didn't result.
Fact: The flyaway cost of the individual aircraft is one component of the life cycle cost. The most expensive part of the lifecycle is design. Multiply that by three if three separate aircraft were to be designed. The program lifecycle costs include setting up factories and end-of-life tear down costs of those factories and scrapping of airframes in an environmentally acceptable way. All those costs are reduced by one third, so the total program cost is less than the cost of designing, testing, fielding, supporting, and ultimately de-activating the fleet.
Also: the pilots seem to love the plane. That's the main thing I care about and the truest test.
As far as Elon, if he has a hypothesis that manned aircraft are obsolete, then instead of blabbing on X he should put together a proposal for our special forces, who are allowed to purchase without the constraints of the defense acquisition system.
Finally someone with data to back the claims. Most folks on youtube "experts" are just looking at this emotionally
The US Military maintains a 20 year gap between what civilians have in the USA and what they have. GPS was being used by the US Military 20 years before it showed up in the 1st smart phones. They're not making a big deal about AI because of Chat GTP or any low end AI you can get, they're making a big deal about AI because of what the military has and it's way different than what y'all have you just won't be introduced to it till the military needs to use it
It the money it doesn’t have to be good or reliable just the most expensive it’s always like that since the the 70s 😂😂😂
Very expensive obsolete junk.
No, Elon is wrong and a moron about the F-35
How about making comparison of F-35 and F-15 with electronics upgraded to same level, and assume that enemy found way to overcome stealth feature of F-35.
Oh I feel that about a week into a real fight we will be taking aircraft out of the bone yard and getting them to fly again.
I big factor about AI people fail to consider is just how expensive it is. The size computer required to have human responses and situational awareness would be massive even today. Humans are actually super efficient computers we need a lot less power to run very very complicated software. Flight costs might actually go up with AI planes as a lot of energy would be required to run the flight programs. Humans are cheaper than robots.
Canada should have gone the Brazilian way that Sweden offered.
Elon Musk can design and develop a better joint strike fighter in less time and at a fraction of the cost.
Quit glazing Elon
No he can't.
The real issue is trying to build an aircraft to satisfy all three services, USAF, NAVY, and MARINES. It doesn't work.
F35 specifications were drawn up in the 1990s about 30 years ago. Definitely obsolete
Solar tiles expert (see the results yesterday) Hyperloop expert (see the results today), Electric cars expert (see the results tomorrow), mission to Mars expert.. well.. judge yourself..now jet fighters expert???
The most important thing is not even the 1.7trillion cost in the end, it is the inevitability that it will cause you to lose the war in a prolonged scenario.
I predict that the US will have to rely on mothballed legacy aircrafts to replace the F35, at some points in a future war. And the pilots and ground crews will thank them for it.
Stealth is subjective
When I heard the Chief of Staff of the Air Force defend this as a replacement for the A-10 by saying...maybe we need to redefine what Close Air Suppport is...I new this was a crock of sh!t. I was still Active Duty Air Force Aircrew at the time. The Air Force tried the one aircraft can do it all plan, when it really is several airplanes.
For all those saying Russia and China spend 50% of their budgets on the military , consider this , the USA spends more on its military than any other nation.
In fact , of the top 10 militaries , the U.S. spends more than the other 9 COMBINED !