I really think that Berserk would have immediately failed if not for the Black Swordsman arc. I LOVE the Golden Age arc, but if I was living through the release of Berserk and only had the Golden Age to read through I can imagine myself losing interest. The tonal shift between the two arcs is massively important to the tone and storytelling of the series it draws you in in such a perfectly executed way. I have no idea if that was even Miura's intention but what Miura executed was seriously masterful nonetheless.
Very interesting take, considering many people critique the tonal shift and first arc, esp. the very beginning. I'm not sure if it would have immediately failed, but I think it's great the way it is.
I almost had a meltdown today bc of the asinine way ppl talk about watch order so I really needed this lmao. I swear people have no idea what narrative is other than “some things happened in this order, i’m a very good consumer for figuring out the timeline”
I love how the 3rd part of the Zero Escape VN series has the random watch order as the only way of reading it, cause the VN is divided by chapters and at the end of each chapter the characters have their memory erased, and the player must select a random chapter to read, so everytime, both the characters and the player start a new episode, no one knows what's happened before, no one knows if a character isn't there is because they were killed or because it's in other place. It's awesome!
The very first time I watched Haruhi I watched it in release order, and yes. It was definitely a confusing experience what with the episodes being "out of order". But I do really feel like some form of adjusted "release order" is the best way to watch it (probably putting the 2 "island death mystery" episodes together would be involved.) and I say that because if you watch it in chronological order the most obvious CLIMAX of the series occurs on episode 6 (or so, I forget the exact number) and from then on the rest of the series loses a ton of its charm. If you are aware of that huge climactic moment for the rest of the 18 episodes, the magnitude of the reveal seriously loses a ton of its weight imho.
OMG, I posted this prior to reaching like 3 minutes in, and you just managed to explain to my why, after coming back to Haruhi after the first season has been so unbelievable confusing to me. THANK YOU
I watched it in chronological order and I totally agree. The rest of the anime just doesn't much build on anything from the climactic episode if you watch it in chronological order and it really loses steam with the endless eight. before presumably recovering with the OVA which I haven't watched.
I watched Haruhi in the correct order on youtube years ago, I didn't learn it was originally aired in random order until after the fact, and then there was ANOTHER random order with the DVDs. GR Arkada also suggested people watch cowboy beebop in his order of like 5>6>1>2>3>4>7+ saying the first eipsodes are a "slow start". maybe that works well for rewatches but I absolutely hated having a big climatic episode blow its load too early like that, I will never take anyone's advice to skip episodes like that again.
Order of release, it's basically always order of release for the first time watcher. It gives you the most authentic experience. Everything was written to be viewed that way. Other orders are best kept for rewatches.
I'd argue that for some series, order of release isn't always the best way to do things. It's a good default assumption, but not always the best one. e.g. some American and British TV series were broadcast out of order (e.g. Moral Orel, The Fugitive, Danger Man, and at least three different Star Trek series), so most fans prefer to follow the production order instead. Though at the same time, that's also a situation where your reasoning for following release order doesn't apply: The order those shows aired in *wasn't* the order they were intended to be viewed in. Certain episodes were broadcast earlier or later than intended because the network thought they'd get better ratings that way.
About watch order. I think the most extreme and probably worst case would be Hayate no Gotoku (Hayate the Combat Butler) by the author of Tonikaku Kawaii. You see this series was a fairly popular gag manga that came out in 2004 and got it's first anime on 2007. Surprisingly for a comedy, it has very good serious moments and character developments. The catch, the story in the manga progresses incredibly slow. About 100 chapters for each major plot point, all of it spread within a bunch of filler "character development" chapters. So when the anime released they had very small story bits, and a bunch of comedy that didn't really seem to amount to anything, and the studio figured they would just put the core of the story and ORIGINALLY develop plot points that were hinted in the manga. Thus S1 with 52 episodes made practically a completely original anime with only traces of the source material. It would have been a certainly nice thing watch on the side to complement the manga, but then they decided to continue adapting the further developments of the manga a few years later. Guess what? They had to completely ignore about half of what the 1st season presented, who could have guessed? After that they practically said frick it. They didn't bother adapting anything for about 300 chapters and just made 2 anime complementary originals and a movie that even the author mentions in the manga as stuff that has actually happened in the timeline and you should watch (as well as saying in the anime the equivalent of "Hey! go read the manga before you watch this") And it's last season was just a bunch selected character filler arcs that focused on all the heroines of the series from all over the time line! Not even touching anything from the main plot line, forcing you to read to actually get it! It's the only series I know of that forces mixed media consumption down the throats of their fans by production decision rather than just being a springboard to the source material. That said here is a watch/reading guide courtesy of a Tonikaku Kawaii discord server Start from anime route: S1 > S2 + OVA > Manga Chapter 148 to Chapter 433 > Movie > Manga Chapter 434 to 468 > S3 > S4 + OVA > Finish the rest of manga Oh and there's also a light novel, and a few games, but nobody talks about those.
There is another watch order type you overlooked: Production order - i.e. the order in which each episode/installment was actually made. This seems to happen more with American and Canadian productions than with anime, but there are situations where sometimes a show wasn't broadcast in the order the episodes were actually made, often due to either production factors or network politics. Sometimes an episode gets made late in production but is supposed to be shown in the middle of the series. Sometimes episodes get shuffled around because the network thinks they'll get better ratings that way. For a small but impactful example from one of my favorite American cartoons: generally production order is recommended for Moral Orel over the original broadcast order, because the Christmas special, which was intended to be the season finale, was broadcast first. Why? Because S&P wanted to get the most blasphemous episode out of the way first to gauge the reaction from Christian groups. The choice to lead with the Christmas special was purely a business decision, one that I think does make sense from that standpoint, but it also diminishes much of the impact it has - both by jumping straight into the season finale, and also putting nine episodes between that finale and the season 2 premiere that addresses some of the hanging plot threads. If you're getting into the series after the fact, then you should just watch the series in production order, which both the home video and streaming releases anyways.
22:07 Third* novel. Bakemonogatari is two volumes (which was then resplit into _three_ volumes for the English translated release what the _fuck)._ The other argument for novel order is that of the 18 books adapted, only 3 are out of order, all 3 were because of production circumstance, and everyone already agrees Kizu should be put back in place so why not also Hana and Koyomi? I have to say that the shocking cliffhanger of Koyomimonogatari made Owarimonogatari volumes 1 and 2 a delightfully stressful reading experience that just doesn't happen in anime order, with the cliffhanger immediately resolved. The final chapter of Owari 2 was entirely the author directly taunting me, the reader. "Oh I bet you're fucking _aching_ to know what happens next, aren't you? I know you are." It felt magical.
Interesting video. I watched Monogatari a year ago in the anime release order, and I loved the story, but didn't get too involved in the community. It is funny that your video has finally made me realize the discussion around the Monogatari watch order, and the opinion of the majority being sided with watching Kizu after Bake. In retrospective, I think the anime order has its flaws in regards of the information provided, but I honestly don't think is as bad as a lot of people make it to be. Yes, the mystery of the beginning may have been an unintentional side effect, but I still think it can work, as it is something that kept intriguing me for most of the show and was pretty satisfying to watch when it was time; and also I really like to see, side by side, the end and the beginning of the story, seeing directly how the relationship between Araragi and Shinobu has improved and giving those final words of agreement again in Owari (The whole, "If you were to die tomorrow" speech) giving it very powerful value, especially since Kizu was recent, but the moment in time and the context of their relationship was completely different. Still, I guess I am part of the minority, but I just wanted to share my opinion. I have seen some monogatari fans being somewhat aggressive regarding this subject xD. Apart from that, really good video, you earned yourself a sub. Hope your channel keeps growing!
I see a lot of people saying you should watch Fate/Zero before Stay Night because it comes first chronologically, but I find it's best watched having the knowledge of Stay Night. Why? Well, Zero doesn't even try to pretend Kiritsugu vs Kirei isn't endgame, and the whole story is a deconstruction of what Shirou believed Kiritsugu was like as a mage. He thought Kiritsugu was an ally of justice, a hero that sacrificed himself for the greater good, but the more the story progresses the more you realize he's just a broken man with a distorted sense of justice who believes killing the other side is the only way to save people, to the point the Holy Grail itself had to call him out on his bullshit and make him understand his methods would only lead to more and more deaths. Depending on your watch order, your perception of Shirou's vision on Kiritsugu changes. But even aside from that, watching Saber's perspective on how Kiritsugu acts puts in perspective why she said "Kiritsugu was a real mage" to Shirou and nothing more than that. What you thought were words of respect turn out to be words of disdain for how he acted.
stay night should 1000% be watched first. its the best and it is the best intro to fate. zero gives context but it only really feels impactful because we know what the information means for these characters future.
I largely agree with this. I would just add that Unlimited Blade Works should never under any circumstances be watched before Fate/Zero, as the anime was produced as a sequel to Zero, not the other way around. So the most ideal starting point would end up being Deen's Fate/Stay Night.
@@zankudragon Beg to differ. UBW was made as an adaptation of the UBW route. The fact that Zero's anime was made first is irrelevant, as the source material was still produced first. Calling UBW a sequel to Zero is laughable
@@zankudragon How on earth could the source material be irrelevant here? AFAIK UBW was not massively rewritten so as to be dependent upon having seen Zero. Some specific execution choices were probably influenced by Zero already having been made, but UBW's plot predates Zero, doesn't spoil Zero, and is a self contained story that in no way requires having seen Zero.
I watched Haruhi Suzumiya (season 1) somewhere, I can't remember at all which unholy order it was BUT, when the *ahem pirate site I was using closed and I looked to continue season 2 elsewhere... they had the episodes in a DIFFERENT order from the other site. It was confusing as heck (which from what I hear is the only possible way to experience it anyway) and I never got around to finishing it. I did finish the Endless Eight but there were still like 7 or 9 episodes listed after it but I simply gave up and watched the movie. To add even more confusion: first site had season 1 separately but the second site had both seasons in one long season about 30 episodes total... which had that one Nagato Yuki spinoff listed as season 2 so "SEASON 2" WAS SUDDENLY NORMAL SCHOOL SHOW STUFF?? Once someone convinces me a better way to watch it I need to go back and actually complete the series.
One additional thing to consider is how release order affects production itself. Specifically, in its consideration of an audience that likely has some level of familiarity with previous releases, sometimes resulting in pacing being adjusted to “get to the new stuff” sooner. Fate: UBW has a bit of this, somewhat skimming over the “normal life” sections at the beginning, but I think the most prominent example to me is actually a reboot(?), FMA Brotherhood. I’m always a little reluctant to recommend just watching Brotherhood over any of the original FMA because it kinda rushes through the first few (“repeat”) plot beats, while FMA took its time with them.
I've actually seen someone recommend a watch order for FMA where you start with the 2003 anime, then right before it diverges from the manga, switch over to the equivalent point on Brotherhood.
@@ScribeAwoken I feel like that undermines 2003, which is good in its own right, and ignores that 2003 makes a multitude of changes leading up to where it diverges.
@@azrielsatan8693 yeah, that's valid, and I think the person who brought up that order did it mostly for the sake of rewatches, not for first viewings.
TL;DR - Watching Fate/Zero first is a terrible idea because of it's status as a prequel; it assumes you already know the source material (Being the Visual Novel, or at the very worst the 2006 adaptation) so it doesn't care about trowing you spoilers about the characters in F/SN. You just watched the 2006 anime, or just 2014 UBW anime? Or neither? Don't care there's spoiler even for the third route Is not that hard We still don't have a remake of the adaptation of the first route "FATE", so 2006 DEEN's adaptation has to do. Is not that bad really; it has the basis of magic system, the Grial War format, the Servants, the Masters and the lesson of "It's not fully about power, it's about compatibility and circumstances". The time jump to 2014 Unlimited Blade Works anime, the second route. Then another time jump to 2021-22 for Heaven's Feel movies, the third route. That should be it. Form that point you can go wherever the heck you want. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The point where you know that watching Fate/Zero first is a terrible idea is watching reactions of people that did exactly that. Then they see a character and go like: " Oh look, it's Sakura! Well, at least she looks happy now after everything that happened to her." "Oh look, it's Kirei! But hey! Where is Archer?" "Oh look, it's Illya!..." And then when said revelations happen in the source material they feel flat, because they already "knew". In Fate/Stay Night You are not supposed to know what happened with Sakura besides what Shirou knows about her. Hell, you don't even know ANYTHING about her plotline until the third route, and then by that point it hits you like a truck, because she was always sidelined because "She is not involved in this war". So spoiler for the third route. You are not supposed to know HOW did Kirei survived the last war. You are informed pretty early that he was a survivor, but no the how or what alliances and betrayals he committed, or the true nature of is character. So spoiler for the first and third routes. You are not supposed to know who really is Illya. Who where her parents, why she wants to kill Shirou... and why that changes so easily. Hell, even her true age. So spoilers for the third route. Saber identity is the "Aerith dies" of Fate, so it get a pass. BUT what you are not supposed to know is HOW Kiritsugu saved Shirou and why he summoned Saber. You are not supposed to know Kiritsugu as the badass magic assassin, because that's not the man that saved Shirou, the one he knew. He knew a tired man that couldn't cook to save his life who was constantly distracted and traveling for "business" to Europe. So spoilers for the third route. You are not supposed to know WHAT is the "Holy Grail". Outside of "Granting wishes" and "Helping in Summoning Servants" you are not supposed to know what is it's real purpose, how does it work, how's supposed to work, and what is wrong with it. SO spoilers for every route, specially for the third.
i actually watch haruhi first time with the chronological order kinda regret it after watching the broadcast order when i watch it for the second time since i actually love the "mystery" that they want to make but if you already know the story the "mystery" is worthless
Finally a nuanced opinion on this whole thing. Although I don't personally believe in spoilers being a deal breaker (if a story is good, you knowing something will happen should not ruin the experience in my opinion), the debacle of watch orders and read orders confuses me to this day. I really enjoyed the video and can't wait to see what else you have to say about it if you ever make a follow-up video! But then we'll have the paradox of which video should one watch first to get the maximum out of your viewpoint on watch orders... which sounds like a fun thing.
thank you for this video it really made me think about certain aspects of watch orders, I also felt very cool because I have watched every anime mentioned in the video.
The thing about fate zero is that it constructs it's plot presuming that the knowledge is of someone that has read the three routes of the vn, like, Sakura being Rin's sis is supposed to be a plot twist, Kirei's nature as a character is also supposed to be a slow burner of the sorts, you're not sure he's evil or not but he is developed nicely in HF, and the whole thing surrounding Angra mainyu having corrupted the grail is explored more interestingly in the vn, where in Fate zero is more like, a necessary addition The problem to me isn't that Zero is hard to understand without stay night, it definitely is, but more because it kind of spoils a lot of interesting stuff of the original Visual Novel, if the person isn't willing to read the vn I'd just recommend watching any of the animes in any order, preferably UBW and HF and then Zero, the Deen stay night is good but it's easy to see why someone wouldn't want to watch it, telling them that Kaleid Liner is the weird one of the series and not really comparable to the rest
And then you have FGO where you kind of have to play the game because there is an order and only parts of it actually got an adaptation. Also the same person that told you about FGO will probably recommend not playing the game. Mostly because the gacha mechanics are horrible, and the gameplay is dated, but alright. The entire game is carried by the IP and story, which unfortunately kind of starts slow, but damn does the writing quality start to pick up at a fast rate after a couple of chapters and oh boy does part 2 get so much better. There is also side stories some of which fully flesh out other characters, with someone like Jalter being incredibly fleshed out for a character they decided to bring back after she was defeated in a chapter. Think of her like getting the Harley Quinn treatment from Batman the Animated series.
@@kosmosXcannon I hate the fact they skipped the first five singularities, God, it's like telling people to skip parts of Jojo, it just feels wrong to do so, none of them is bad enough to warrant this treatment, and some rewriting wouldn't be impossible for an anime, it just feels so soulless on their part Also the soundtrack, this is specifically an ufotable problem, it took me a while to realize the problem I had with it, but I finally found a way to say it, every OST of Ufotable, sounds the fucking same, comparing to the vn when the first time you hear the EMIYA theme, it sounds like nothing you had heard in the game, and every time it plays it feels just as epic as the last, it feels special, Ufotable though? Well, Zero had some recognizable ones, since I had played the VN before, Zero was my first fate anime so maybe I'm biased for liking it, everything else, if it's not a remix, I don't remember Compare that to Fgo and Kaleid Liner, nowadays everything Fgo puts out sounds fire af, and Kaleid Liner's soundtrack just makes my bones shake, that shit gives me eargasms every time
@@justanothergabs4710 I think my favorite sound tracks are from CCC with Kiara's and BB's theme and the one that plays for Melt. I also liked the song that plays for Kama's event trailer or whatever. Koyanskaya's theme is also good. I think I have a thing for bad girls.
@@kosmosXcannon fgo's bad girls hit different, I never had any particular feelings for saber alter but when I heard her final ascension like I decided to grail her to a 100, no regrets either as she is strong as hell But I myself I prefer the nicer girls, just after playing Atlantis I went and leveled Corday up to 90, I'll get her to a 100 soon though, for sure
@@justanothergabs4710 Yeah I like all the Jeannes, especially Jalter. I actually got her as an NP2 where I got 2 copies like on my last 10 roll from her very first banner. I love that tsundere.
I knew nothing about Ex-Arm. I've paused at 20:34, read the synopsis blurb and honestly though the premise sounds kinda intriguing. "shoot, now I've spoiled the first few episodes for myself" I guess that goes to show how much execution matters in the end and premise is just a very small fraction of the whole story.
Your video was recommended after a Scamboli Reviews video. This is also my first time seeing your channel/video, so I consider this a win for you. You got my subscription! :)
The idea that broadcast order Haruhi somehow captures author intent is a ridiculous notion. The source material (novels) starts with Melancholy for a reason: it provides crucial details about all of the characters that enhance your appreciation of otherwise seemingly mundane events. The novels and anime both jump around in time, but the massive Craterhoof Behemoth sized difference is that the novels never make you guess when events are happening. I don't think broadcast order is bad or wrong or anything, but chronological is a perfectly fine way to watch the show for your first time and is not in any way a compromise of the source material.
@@Pekaman66 which is why most people recommend UBW as it is a much better show and gets you mostly to the same place. even if both it and Zero assume you watched it or played the VN.
Fate specifically I would just start visual novel first route which fate serves as introduction not only to world but shirou mindset on becoming hero of justice. Each route builds upon other tackling that mindset in different ways. Leading to heavens feel which best route in visual novel. Fate Zero dressing on top kiritsugu emiya both reflection of Shirou and Archer. Because Shirou is deconstruction of shonen protagonist. Throw fate oath under snow as another way answering that same hero of justice mindset.
Prince of Tennis comes to mind... Where there are so many differently named series plus so many ova's that have come out overtime in different parts of the timeline, it makes it a bit much to figure out on your own. Especially since some sites only have a few so you have to bounce around to different sites to keep the order.
When it comes Fate atleast I'd go for Deen/stay night cus while "mediocre" in a lot of ways it is the first adaptation of Fate & the 1st route of the first Fate installment where u can then watch all the other routes & or Zero then ur free from there but for me I typically jus go Release order cus there is a calculated intention that I tend to trust & it works for me(like the aforementioned Haruhi/Monogatari)
I know it is more work, and is not part of the video, but can be helpful if there were a comment with the background animes. I want to know the anime at 15:21...
The concept of watch orders is always interesting to me because they often come up with nerd media outside of anime as well. Star Wars immediately comes to mind. Some hardcore fans will suggest following the Machete order (named for the blog it originates from, Absolutely No Machete Juggling), an alternate viewing order that is neither chronological nor based on order of release. This order starts with A New Hope, continues with The Empire Strikes Back, but instead of going straight into Return of the Jedi, takes a detour through Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, treating them as an extended flashback. It also skips Phantom Menace entirely, instead shunting it off to the side to be watched alongside the other anthology films.
Coming back to this over a year later, I just realized that I never actually explained why the Machete Order exists. Spoilers for one of the biggest movie franchises of all time ahead: so the thing with Star Wars is that, like... it's in a weird position where it seems like the prequels were simultaneously written under the assumption that you should watch them first, but also that you should watch them with knowledge of how the original trilogy plays out. The numbering is in chronological order, and the big twist with Palpatine is spoiled from the get go if you already saw the original trilogy... but it also spoils the Darth Vader twist from the original trilogy if you watch it first (though admittedly that is probably the most spoiled twist of all time), and there are also a ton of nods to the original trilogy that you won't get if you haven't actually seen it. where the Machete order comes in is that it identifies the fact that the Vader twist happens in The Empire Strikes Back, but the reveal in the Original Trilogy that spoils the Palpatine twist in the prequels doesn't happen until Return of the Jedi. Thus you can basically shove the prequels in between those two movies and treat them as an extended flashback. From there you can experience the Vader twist and appreciate most of the Prequels' nods to the original trilogy, but also not have the admittedly heavily telegraphed Palpatine twist spoiled for you. ... or you can just watch the Original Trilogy and never touch anything else to come out of Star Wars
Ironically in the Fate case, I think the original FSN serves as the best starting point for the series in that it satisfies the broadcast order and roughly satisfies the source order (technically adapting the first route of the original story, though truly being a Frankenstein monster of all three but still adapting the first whole work), onboarding viewers in a similar fashion to the source while not skipping any pre-existing source material Plus, since it was created before Fate/Zero, it isn't as intrinsically linked (ie no direct callbacks like UBW had) which means it minimizes spoilers for Zero. It also has the bonus of allowing you to truly appreciate how visually fantastic Ufotable's adaptations are in comparison- the only problem being you have to suffer through 25 episodes of a truly compromised product. It's, imo, the best starting point that I cannot recommend to anyone to actually start with.
Dang man, how do you only have 383 subscribers? I got there are good sound choices for the background music. But yes Monogatari is one of the most confusing series to find the watch order. It's an amazing series but confusing to start. I will say watching your video makes me want to go back and rewatch/watch some animes I've haven't gotten to
I don't think Fate has a "right" watch order, however, there sure is a "best" watch order. I prety much recomend Zero as a starting point, not only because is the best nasuverse work for me, but also because the information dump that comes in the original work seams more intresting this way for solving many of the questions that Zero doesn't answer properly for the sake of not slowing down the story.
I felt like the information given in stay night wasn't as much important because we've already seen it's details in zero. If anything, the information adds to the work itself, and not to zero.
I am going to say something a bit controversial about fate. the correct starting point was not in your list though UBW is a decent alternative (and is a better work so that is why everyone defaults to it). depending on your stance on VN and eroge. the correct starting point is either the much poorer Fate/stay night original anime. OR the VN. UBW is an alternate timeline from the cannon line. nearly every anime is. the original Fate/Staynight Anime is the series that Zero is the prequel for. (though that is a technicality as the timeline branches after zero ends.) For Shirou's story to work properly you CANNOT know the things Zero will tell you about his father. if you know things he does not neither his actions nor Saber allowing him to keep not knowing makes sense and it runis the story. but If you see his story first Zero presumes you know it. thus the twist (Spoilers here) that his father was not the hero of justice he wishes to emulate but actually a very dark antihero bordering on full on well intentioned villainy. the twist of both stories requires you to know how Shiro sees his father but NOT know how his father actually was until later. this story not being the story you expected after seeing the other show is part of zero's point in existence. and if you saw it first the story undermines Shiro's entire plot and future self. the reason Archer turns out the way he did is that Shiro lacks basic information about who his father was. how toxic the dream he inherited is. and that his father never intended for him to either A take up that dream. nor B idolize himself in any way and is in fact directly responsible for his being orphaned and for the event that made Shiro desire to be a hero in the first place. all the "good" ends to the Fate VN have his outright reject his dream in one way or another. as the entire premise is horrid and flawed. if you watch Zero first you know all this. and Shiro is either an idiot or a tragic figure. If you watch his story first he seems like a typical anime protagonist. kindhearted generally good if a bit naïve and if only the rest of the world were a bit more like him maybe the conflict wouldn't be happening at all depending on timeline you grown with him (or don't) and his choices make sense to you for what he experienced and as a consequence of what happened. basically Shiro's story has to come first if you want to see things the way Shiro sees things and that story is predicated on you making his journey with him and either concluding that A) something else is of more value for him to seek and strive for than the original dream (saber in fate/stay night) he is not powerful enough to pursue the dream even though he does not realize and in fact rejects the argument that his dream is wrong (UBW especially in the best ending) or else that the dream was wrong and that rather than sacrificing himself for anyone and anything he sees in the whole wide world he should instead sacrifice that ultimately self aggrandizing and selfish desire for the betterment of those who he cares about and are suffering within his reach (heavens Feel) . any other watch order tells you that your protagonist is wrong and simply refuses to understand the reality he exist in. and is probably stupid because he has more than enough information and sources and evidence to know he is wrong. and invalidates the entire struggle. if you watch Grand order, apocrypha or any other grail war. while you don't know the whole story you know that Shiro is fundamentally wrong about the kind of world he lives in. it makes it harder to be on his side as he screws up because your not learning that he was wrong as he does. your not thinking that it is just these few people that are aberrant and crazy but instead your watching someone make obvious mistakes that several people with more experience and knowledge outright told him were mistakes and you already knew they were right. if you watch the family story first you have no reason to care about them being a family and the other shows will make no sense in context. you may also learn things that undermine the other stories in referential materiel. (to be fair it barely makes sense in context with itself. it is more wish fulfillment for all the tortured souls than anything else. )
My biggest Haruhi watch order hot take is regardless of the order you watch, you should always end with Someday in the Rain because it leads really well into Disappearance.
I first watched Haruhi in it's origonla broadcast order because certianly people reccomended it and I regret that decision. The purpose of airing those episodes out of rode was soley so the finale can feel like a finale, but no one todya is going waiting a week between each episode and any order are gonna wind ending on the movies, so that's an outdated irrelevent argument. But the reaons some people sitll aruge for it is nsotalgia, they remmeber how tribby the whole experience was and think everyone who would be itno Harhi would feel the same, they do not. My problem with the Haruhi broadcast order is that in my opinion shoudln't have been a TV ANime to begin with, it should have always been movies and OVAs for the short stories. What's today rare about Haruhi si that the very firs tnovel does work as a single stand alone story, if there had never been sequel the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya would still a neat interest scifi story on it's own, most LNs aren't like that, they are from concept transparantly wrriten by the merer opneing arc of an ongoing saga. The orignal Haruhi story's ability to stand on it's own derves to be apreciated yet it isn't because Anime only people keeping watching it is this garbele doder the ruiend the clever escalation. Fate/Zero has no spoilers for Unlimtied Blade Works, what it arguably spoils is far mroe relevent ot the other routes, the central twis of UBW is utterly irelevent to the event sof Zero. Fate/Zero should be watched because it's kind of the only is a complete story on it's own and also the only one that's at all Normie Freindly.
the entire video i was waiting for you to get to fate, the poster child of people arguing about watch order (and timelines, but let's not talk about that one, alright?). i usually just give people a quick rundown of some of the characters and the general plot, and if you like the sound of it, start there. most of it is entirely disconnected from itself, if you don't like magical girls, don't watch kaleid. you like scifi? last encore takes place inside a simulation in a super computer on the moon, and magic is executing code in the system.
My stance on endless eight is that obviously it's fucking stupid to air that shit.... BUT it really makes for such an amazing story now that it's all out
There really is no watch order for Fate, you read the VN first and then watch whatever you want as Fate/UBW/HF are meant to be a three part meta narrative and you can't experience them in that way very well in anime form for a number of reasons.
yeah idgaf. gonna watch the holiday spin-off episode of an anime I've never seen first, then watch season 1 then watch nothing else. Thanks for your opinion tho
There is a correct watch order for fate, well, a read order I guess. You read the damn Stay/Night VN and go from there. Either to Hollow Ataraxia or to the Zero anime. The reason most people would strongly discourage watching Zero first, is that it ruins the original Visual Novel which is miles better than the anime adaptations, but relies on you coming in clueless about Ilya /Sakura /Kirei / Gil / Kiritsugu. Watching Zero first spoils Heaven's Feel in a way that you can no longer get a clean reading of the Fate and UBW routes and the shattering revelations in Heaven's Feel. You could arguably go from Ufotable's UBW to the Heaven's Feel Movies and then to Zero, but that'll still make it impossible to get a proper reading of Staynight's Fate route. Just read the VN first for the best possible experience, it's really that simple
As a huge fan of Monogatari, Fate, and Haruhi, I've encountered an endless amount of watch order debates, just about all of which were completely and utterly unproductive for everyone involved. The issue with the discourse surrounding watch orders is that people are overly concerned with curating the viewing experience by creating a universal, standardized system, which if you ask me, entirely misses the point. It really feels like all the effort put into obsessively arguing over the "perfect" or "most-approximately-intended" order would be better spent by creating guides that simply explain the existing watch orders in a neutral, unbiased fashion. In other words, watch order guides should ideally be designed to inform people of the options available to them and what those options entail so that they can make their own choice based on their personal interests and sensibilities. It should simply go without saying that different people will have different experiences with a work, not to mention they may have different value systems in regards to what aspects of an experience they consider worth preserving. For instance, the notion of getting Heaven's Feel spoilers by watching Fate/Zero first is hardly an issue if the viewer in question is simply less sensitive to spoilers to begin with. It's also somewhat odd to me when people hold the "author's intent" as sacred when it comes to adaptations, especially considering that, by its very nature, an anime adaptation is not something the creator strictly intended-and in Nisio's case, considered to be downright inconceivable, as you mentioned. When a work gets adapted into a different medium, the intentions of countless artists are inherently mixing themselves in with the original work in a transformative manner, and there is no better example of this than the Kizumonogatari trilogy. Even though it wasn't originally intended to be released 7 years late, its undeniable that the Kizumonogatari is an incredibly transformative adaptation that amplifies the scope and gravitas of the story to an exceptional degree. To say that one should watch Kizu after Bake solely on the basis that "it was written that way in the novels" is rather shallow reasoning, and feels entirely dismissive of the fact that an adaptation of a series = / = the source material, especially when significant creative liberties are taken with it. Essentially, I think that these types of discussions should aim to be more nuanced, and discuss the different types of watching experiences on even ground by acknowledging the various interests and values that different people might have, and to more holistically recognize the complicated clusters of factors that can contribute to one's experience with the work.
From my superficial understanding, I can only imagine how chaotic it gets with multiple reboots and several different universes. I also think that some superhero's don't have dedicated writers so it becomes a whole bunch of different stories by different people that may or may not have anything to do with each other.
I fucking hate watch orders. If I am a beginner that is interested in Fate, I don't want to know my 5-year-plan for the next year of anime watching. I don't care whether I should play the gacha game _before_ or _after_ the VNs. I don't care. *Just tell me what to watch first.* If I liked it, I'll come back and either ask for what to watch second, or I'll probably figure it out on my own, because at that point I _might_ give enough of a fuck about it. But at the moment, the reason I'm asking for the next step in the first place is because _I don't care_ enough about to it research it myself. So don't bog me down with the details or I'll give up immediately
Feel like you missed the BIG point At some extent the anime script was re-written to account for the fact that is in a different order from the novels.this is part of why bake and zero go harder on the explaining that they would otherwise do. Kizu and havens feel got away with skimming over the rules bcz bake and zero already did some of the heavy lifting if terms of exposition
Always release order. Lets you follow the understanding of the community, atleast if you want the best perspective, depending on what you want though just jump in somewhere, I started Gundam with Gundam 00 because it sounded like the start and that was a long time ago though, but it is a little different than something like the a certain series, because they are very loosely related, instead of isolated stories, but you could also start dragonball with z, maybe super if your of a younger generation. Recommend release order, but that is just a recommendation, if you are unsure if you will enjoy it, maybe just start with a popular arc, or a community opinion good starter point.
For fate the only entry in the franchise that have a watch order is the 3 road of the first visual novel in the vn you force to watch i this order stay night next unlimited blade work and last the most important of the three heaven feel the 3 time is the same story but in the 2 first road shirou fail and become archer ( not the one of the serie but a archer ) and regret it in the last road he give up of his dream of become a heros and acepte to be adulte another point is that in the vn nothink hint that sakura is the main antagoniste of the serie : in fact in every road exept heaven feel shirou learn the true about sakura kill her and become archer and personaly i think that why you should not start or watch zero beford heaven feel another point is that the autor say that saber road is the choix of a child , unlimeted black work the choix of a adolesend and heaven feel the choix of a adulte sadly the first adaptation of the vn is prety bad so nobody exept the one that start beford zero was airing start with it nowday and i think the only good order for haruhi is the chronoliccal order i watch the broadcasting order when it air and it realy bad just random order
Peach Boy Riverside got massive backlash from its choice of episode order, and ruined the comment section of every video with people complaining about how confusing it was. Non linear order isn’t that confusing, come on!
So I’ll be the odd fate fan out in this comments section and agree with your saying Fate doesn’t have a watch order. I think the fanbase tends to get really attached to their viewing order and interpretation of events of the different stories so they get defensive. But a lot of the through lines end up being thematic and the type of thing only really noticeable on rewatch for most people. Fate is almost always written in a way to be inviting to new people with each individual entry as you don’t need to know all the lore, characters, or themes to understand an individual entry so the timeline mess is a complete nonissue unless you dwell on it. You will miss stuff but I don’t see it as any different than watching say an MCU movie out of release order. It’s just not that big a deal. The fact that a massive chunk of the fanbase started with fate zero or FGO speaks for the pointlessness of it all. And honestly I kind of like the result of it all where Fate is different things to different people and where no best entries can be decided on cause we all look for different things.
Fate/Zero anime came out after the Visual Novel, expecting viewers to have already played/read stay night and heavens feel in the VN so technically the order is UBW->movies->Zero. The rest don't have a watch order. Also you forgot about Railgun/Index series.
When i watch vinland saga i always try to watch it in the order of the manga which creates better intrigue for the protagonist. But its not a big deal. The manga has a stronger introduction in my opinion. The way the anime does it just sort of spoils some important story stuff.
I disagree about the Fate series not having a watch order. The way I see it Fate/Stay Night is big one story and the three routes represent different parts of it: Fate-beginning, UBW-middle, Heaven's Feel-end. The mystery is also very important to the narrative with a lot of elements purposefully hidden from the audience. Fate/Zero on the other hand reveals to you all the information from the start except for the ending which is also not explained in the anime since it assumes that the audience is familiar with Fate/Stay Night and therefor knows what happens. "Spoiling" the end of Fate/Zero isn't a big deal because the story isn't written around that, it's about how the characters that you've heard of got there instead. In fact I see Fate/Zero as Gen Urobuchi's own version of Fate/Stay Night's story and themes in a more linear and simpler structure that Nasu's visual novel. Basically, though starting with UBW isn't perfect, like starting in the middle a story instead of the beginning, it is better than ruining the end of a story by watching a spin-off first. This makes me wonder if you even watched the Heaven's Feel movies before making this video. Other than that I really enjoyed this video ❤
Came to type this. Fate is a franchise that spoils the heck of the original material. You should first read the Visual Novel, the three routes, and the watch/read/play whatever the heck you want. You could watch FSN anime first, but its not that good and spoils things from the other 2 routes. You shouldn't start with UBW or HF because Shirou is not the main character in UBW, HF meanwhile is the culmination of Shirou's arc and the logical conclusion of his ideals.
I came back to apologize in case my original comment sounded to aggressive lol. I'm sorry I just feel quite passionately about it I guess. I started with Fate/Zero first and I loved it to bits and followed with UBW which in comparison felt underwhelming. But after watching the Heaven's Feel movies and part of the Fate route I had this moment of "oh! I get it now!" and the story made more sense to me and not on a "technical lore type" level but on an emotional narrative level.
@@lab-ra-stories fair enough, but for Gundam there’s so many valid watch orders. There’s a lot of accessible shows, but it’s more of a matter of which series will get the person hooked rather than chronology. And certain series should be watched in a certain order, so it can get confusing.
so its more like a bunch of history textbooks where all the events are technically about the same place (or perhaps theme in this case), but you can start with whatever events interest you. If you don't mind me asking, what would a good starting point be for someone who enjoys mysteries? (not that the series has to have a mystery plot or subplot, more so just intellectually engaging or straight up confusing)
@@lab-ra-stories interesting question. I think that some Gundam series are in the ball park of what you are looking for. My go to recommendation is the first Gundam series, because it holds up really well for an old anime, and it is where you should start if you want to get into the “main timeline” which is called Universal Century. It’s isn’t really a mystery, but the last like 10 episodes is very similar to the weird stuff at the end of 2001 A Space Odyssey. But for a more straightforward mystery is Gundam 00 which centers around a group of Gundam Pilots who want to end all war, and part of the plot is trying to find out what the creator who died 100 years ago had for motives. We don’t know the grander plan behind the Gundam. Turn A Gundam is the most mysterious Gundam show, but it becomes more confusing if you’ve seen at least Gundam 1979. It’s basically moon people with a bunch of space technology against early 20th century America. It just works better if you’ve seen the other shows, but you could probably understand the plot without them.
@@lab-ra-stories also another clarification: there’s multiple timelines, that don’t connect with one another. Most of them are about war is bad, but they are really different. G Gundam is basically a Saturday Morning Cartoon with a bit of political stuff, but it’s most goofy. Look up the premise, it’s really wacky Also if you want confusing, apparently Reconguista in G (G Reco for short) is apparently really confusing, but apparently not very good. Haven’t seen it myself, but I guess that’s another recommendation.
you know that's actually quite intriguing. As noted some of the seasons got pretty poor adaptations (especially when it comes to the index side), which might make for the argument that a 'watch' order includes some anime and then wants you to read from the source for context until it gets better. Additionally, while Index and Railgun take place at generally the same time, there fairly different stories that can be mostly understood in complete isolation. Its like the characters just appear as cameo's while the other protagonist does there thing, and so its not super concrete on whether its necessary to watch both in order to understand the implications of certain plot beats.
@@lab-ra-stories fairly different stories that can be mostly understood in complete isolation ? Sure maybe for the first season of railgun. But Railgun S has the grander scale of Index I's sisters' arc and in Railgun T there are... the things that come out of a certain boy's arm that for a railgun only might seem to go out of the blue. Same for Accelerator. Although, you actually can watch before anything and it might be interesting because you don't know his past if you start with Accelerator (I know a guy who did that). Also in the community there is also the grand question of watch order too. Like there is either the broadcast order, or the chronological order. And it's pretty divisive. Not to mention the railgun only route (since Index is the weaker adaptation, which is normal since it's from the LN).
@@lab-ra-stories I think the adaptations of Index were fine, and Railgun were really good, but goddammit, Index III should have never existed, it brings the whole series' overall quality down by a LOT! Thankfully Railgun T exists to bring things back up again, but the damage caused by III will never be undone unless they scrap it and redo it right this time. As for the watch order of those, I'd say it's best to watch the broadcast release. Railgun and Index are all works that complement each other at the beginning of their respective subseries, with only Index being able to be enjoyed as a standalone since it is a direct adaptation of the source material. But Railgun needs knowledge of Index after the second season, Accelerator can only work if you watched Index too and is enhanced with Railgun S, while Astral Buddy simply cannot work if you haven't seen Railgun. Let's be honest here, the To Aru series is not meant to be consumed one series only, you do need to watch the rest of the series to get the full picture, and that is its selling point. It may not be for everyone, but in my eyes it just means you get rewarded for your time invested in the series.
wait, this is the first time im hearing this. is this the reason i didnt enjoy this show? because it was out of order? 15 years ago when i watched it, i hear all the hype, but didn't particularly enjoy it.
Bruhh you did NOT just defend the S;G Chronological order 😭😭😭 Can we STOP spreading that dumb order around??? You mention in the intro that an order should keep the author's intent and the Chronological order is anything BUT that????
Alternative watch orders just keeps indecisive people from watching something. For S;G the alternative order is just garbage that doesn't need to exist. Just do release, quick and simple. There is no need for discourse about this.
Aaaaaa you mention authorial intent again for the Haruhi section, why is Steins;Gate somehow exempt from that??? S;G 0 was released HALF A DECADE after S;G, how is the intent for a whole new story written by different people with different characters to be shoved in the end of S;G???
Adding on to this: the "chronological order" IS NOT EVEN TRUE CHRONOLOGICALLY. I've heard its great for a rewatch tho, but for me S;G0 kinda slows down too much halfway for it to be enjoyable.
I enjoyed this video until you talk about Fate. Neither the correct starting point for Fate is UBW nor Zero. The VN is the correct one. If you don't read the VN, might as well start from anywhere
I STRONGLY disagree that Ufotable's Unlimited Blade Works should EVER be watched first. I don't give a shit about the source material. The anime was literally produced as a sequel to Zero. Anyone who suggest otherwise is absolutely incorrect. The only two acceptable starting points would be Deen's Fate/Stay Night or Ufotable's Fate/Zero.
So all I learned is that the best watch order for ex arms is don't.
it's do
I'm grateful you mentioned Haruhi Episode 00
I really think that Berserk would have immediately failed if not for the Black Swordsman arc. I LOVE the Golden Age arc, but if I was living through the release of Berserk and only had the Golden Age to read through I can imagine myself losing interest. The tonal shift between the two arcs is massively important to the tone and storytelling of the series it draws you in in such a perfectly executed way. I have no idea if that was even Miura's intention but what Miura executed was seriously masterful nonetheless.
Very interesting take, considering many people critique the tonal shift and first arc, esp. the very beginning. I'm not sure if it would have immediately failed, but I think it's great the way it is.
Same with vinland saga
I almost had a meltdown today bc of the asinine way ppl talk about watch order so I really needed this lmao. I swear people have no idea what narrative is other than “some things happened in this order, i’m a very good consumer for figuring out the timeline”
I love how the 3rd part of the Zero Escape VN series has the random watch order as the only way of reading it, cause the VN is divided by chapters and at the end of each chapter the characters have their memory erased, and the player must select a random chapter to read, so everytime, both the characters and the player start a new episode, no one knows what's happened before, no one knows if a character isn't there is because they were killed or because it's in other place. It's awesome!
Everybody knows that best way to get into Fate is watching Carnival Phantasm
The very first time I watched Haruhi I watched it in release order, and yes. It was definitely a confusing experience what with the episodes being "out of order".
But I do really feel like some form of adjusted "release order" is the best way to watch it (probably putting the 2 "island death mystery" episodes together would be involved.) and I say that because if you watch it in chronological order the most obvious CLIMAX of the series occurs on episode 6 (or so, I forget the exact number) and from then on the rest of the series loses a ton of its charm. If you are aware of that huge climactic moment for the rest of the 18 episodes, the magnitude of the reveal seriously loses a ton of its weight imho.
OMG, I posted this prior to reaching like 3 minutes in, and you just managed to explain to my why, after coming back to Haruhi after the first season has been so unbelievable confusing to me. THANK YOU
I watched it in chronological order and I totally agree. The rest of the anime just doesn't much build on anything from the climactic episode if you watch it in chronological order and it really loses steam with the endless eight. before presumably recovering with the OVA which I haven't watched.
I watched Haruhi in the correct order on youtube years ago, I didn't learn it was originally aired in random order until after the fact, and then there was ANOTHER random order with the DVDs.
GR Arkada also suggested people watch cowboy beebop in his order of like 5>6>1>2>3>4>7+ saying the first eipsodes are a "slow start". maybe that works well for rewatches but I absolutely hated having a big climatic episode blow its load too early like that, I will never take anyone's advice to skip episodes like that again.
Special orders are fun for second watches but order of release generally works better for first time viewes imo.
Order of release, it's basically always order of release for the first time watcher. It gives you the most authentic experience. Everything was written to be viewed that way. Other orders are best kept for rewatches.
I'd argue that for some series, order of release isn't always the best way to do things. It's a good default assumption, but not always the best one.
e.g. some American and British TV series were broadcast out of order (e.g. Moral Orel, The Fugitive, Danger Man, and at least three different Star Trek series), so most fans prefer to follow the production order instead. Though at the same time, that's also a situation where your reasoning for following release order doesn't apply: The order those shows aired in *wasn't* the order they were intended to be viewed in. Certain episodes were broadcast earlier or later than intended because the network thought they'd get better ratings that way.
Great insight! Another series to look into would be "A Certain Magical Index/Scientific Railgun". I believe that has a watch order as well.
About watch order.
I think the most extreme and probably worst case would be Hayate no Gotoku (Hayate the Combat Butler) by the author of Tonikaku Kawaii.
You see this series was a fairly popular gag manga that came out in 2004 and got it's first anime on 2007.
Surprisingly for a comedy, it has very good serious moments and character developments. The catch, the story in the manga progresses incredibly slow. About 100 chapters for each major plot point, all of it spread within a bunch of filler "character development" chapters.
So when the anime released they had very small story bits, and a bunch of comedy that didn't really seem to amount to anything, and the studio figured they would just put the core of the story and ORIGINALLY develop plot points that were hinted in the manga.
Thus S1 with 52 episodes made practically a completely original anime with only traces of the source material.
It would have been a certainly nice thing watch on the side to complement the manga, but then they decided to continue adapting the further developments of the manga a few years later. Guess what? They had to completely ignore about half of what the 1st season presented, who could have guessed?
After that they practically said frick it. They didn't bother adapting anything for about 300 chapters and just made 2 anime complementary originals and a movie that even the author mentions in the manga as stuff that has actually happened in the timeline and you should watch (as well as saying in the anime the equivalent of "Hey! go read the manga before you watch this")
And it's last season was just a bunch selected character filler arcs that focused on all the heroines of the series from all over the time line! Not even touching anything from the main plot line, forcing you to read to actually get it!
It's the only series I know of that forces mixed media consumption down the throats of their fans by production decision rather than just being a springboard to the source material.
That said here is a watch/reading guide courtesy of a Tonikaku Kawaii discord server
Start from anime route:
S1 > S2 + OVA > Manga Chapter 148 to Chapter 433 > Movie > Manga Chapter 434 to 468 > S3 > S4 + OVA > Finish the rest of manga
Oh and there's also a light novel, and a few games, but nobody talks about those.
There is another watch order type you overlooked: Production order - i.e. the order in which each episode/installment was actually made. This seems to happen more with American and Canadian productions than with anime, but there are situations where sometimes a show wasn't broadcast in the order the episodes were actually made, often due to either production factors or network politics. Sometimes an episode gets made late in production but is supposed to be shown in the middle of the series. Sometimes episodes get shuffled around because the network thinks they'll get better ratings that way.
For a small but impactful example from one of my favorite American cartoons: generally production order is recommended for Moral Orel over the original broadcast order, because the Christmas special, which was intended to be the season finale, was broadcast first. Why? Because S&P wanted to get the most blasphemous episode out of the way first to gauge the reaction from Christian groups. The choice to lead with the Christmas special was purely a business decision, one that I think does make sense from that standpoint, but it also diminishes much of the impact it has - both by jumping straight into the season finale, and also putting nine episodes between that finale and the season 2 premiere that addresses some of the hanging plot threads. If you're getting into the series after the fact, then you should just watch the series in production order, which both the home video and streaming releases anyways.
22:07 Third* novel. Bakemonogatari is two volumes (which was then resplit into _three_ volumes for the English translated release what the _fuck)._
The other argument for novel order is that of the 18 books adapted, only 3 are out of order, all 3 were because of production circumstance, and everyone already agrees Kizu should be put back in place so why not also Hana and Koyomi? I have to say that the shocking cliffhanger of Koyomimonogatari made Owarimonogatari volumes 1 and 2 a delightfully stressful reading experience that just doesn't happen in anime order, with the cliffhanger immediately resolved.
The final chapter of Owari 2 was entirely the author directly taunting me, the reader. "Oh I bet you're fucking _aching_ to know what happens next, aren't you? I know you are." It felt magical.
I hear you, i really do but im still watching haruhi chronologically
Interesting video. I watched Monogatari a year ago in the anime release order, and I loved the story, but didn't get too involved in the community. It is funny that your video has finally made me realize the discussion around the Monogatari watch order, and the opinion of the majority being sided with watching Kizu after Bake.
In retrospective, I think the anime order has its flaws in regards of the information provided, but I honestly don't think is as bad as a lot of people make it to be. Yes, the mystery of the beginning may have been an unintentional side effect, but I still think it can work, as it is something that kept intriguing me for most of the show and was pretty satisfying to watch when it was time; and also I really like to see, side by side, the end and the beginning of the story, seeing directly how the relationship between Araragi and Shinobu has improved and giving those final words of agreement again in Owari (The whole, "If you were to die tomorrow" speech) giving it very powerful value, especially since Kizu was recent, but the moment in time and the context of their relationship was completely different.
Still, I guess I am part of the minority, but I just wanted to share my opinion. I have seen some monogatari fans being somewhat aggressive regarding this subject xD.
Apart from that, really good video, you earned yourself a sub. Hope your channel keeps growing!
I see a lot of people saying you should watch Fate/Zero before Stay Night because it comes first chronologically, but I find it's best watched having the knowledge of Stay Night.
Why? Well, Zero doesn't even try to pretend Kiritsugu vs Kirei isn't endgame, and the whole story is a deconstruction of what Shirou believed Kiritsugu was like as a mage. He thought Kiritsugu was an ally of justice, a hero that sacrificed himself for the greater good, but the more the story progresses the more you realize he's just a broken man with a distorted sense of justice who believes killing the other side is the only way to save people, to the point the Holy Grail itself had to call him out on his bullshit and make him understand his methods would only lead to more and more deaths.
Depending on your watch order, your perception of Shirou's vision on Kiritsugu changes. But even aside from that, watching Saber's perspective on how Kiritsugu acts puts in perspective why she said "Kiritsugu was a real mage" to Shirou and nothing more than that. What you thought were words of respect turn out to be words of disdain for how he acted.
stay night should 1000% be watched first. its the best and it is the best intro to fate. zero gives context but it only really feels impactful because we know what the information means for these characters future.
I largely agree with this. I would just add that Unlimited Blade Works should never under any circumstances be watched before Fate/Zero, as the anime was produced as a sequel to Zero, not the other way around. So the most ideal starting point would end up being Deen's Fate/Stay Night.
@@zankudragon Beg to differ. UBW was made as an adaptation of the UBW route. The fact that Zero's anime was made first is irrelevant, as the source material was still produced first. Calling UBW a sequel to Zero is laughable
@@LB-vf2hm The anime adaptation of UBW was literally a sequel to the anime adaptation of Zero, dipshit. The source material is irrelevant here.
@@zankudragon How on earth could the source material be irrelevant here? AFAIK UBW was not massively rewritten so as to be dependent upon having seen Zero. Some specific execution choices were probably influenced by Zero already having been made, but UBW's plot predates Zero, doesn't spoil Zero, and is a self contained story that in no way requires having seen Zero.
God, I love your style, jokes and points so much. Real glad I found your channel. That goblin joke was such a nice surprise!
I watched Haruhi Suzumiya (season 1) somewhere, I can't remember at all which unholy order it was BUT, when the *ahem pirate site I was using closed and I looked to continue season 2 elsewhere... they had the episodes in a DIFFERENT order from the other site. It was confusing as heck (which from what I hear is the only possible way to experience it anyway) and I never got around to finishing it. I did finish the Endless Eight but there were still like 7 or 9 episodes listed after it but I simply gave up and watched the movie.
To add even more confusion: first site had season 1 separately but the second site had both seasons in one long season about 30 episodes total... which had that one Nagato Yuki spinoff listed as season 2 so "SEASON 2" WAS SUDDENLY NORMAL SCHOOL SHOW STUFF?? Once someone convinces me a better way to watch it I need to go back and actually complete the series.
One additional thing to consider is how release order affects production itself. Specifically, in its consideration of an audience that likely has some level of familiarity with previous releases, sometimes resulting in pacing being adjusted to “get to the new stuff” sooner.
Fate: UBW has a bit of this, somewhat skimming over the “normal life” sections at the beginning, but I think the most prominent example to me is actually a reboot(?), FMA Brotherhood. I’m always a little reluctant to recommend just watching Brotherhood over any of the original FMA because it kinda rushes through the first few (“repeat”) plot beats, while FMA took its time with them.
I've actually seen someone recommend a watch order for FMA where you start with the 2003 anime, then right before it diverges from the manga, switch over to the equivalent point on Brotherhood.
@@ScribeAwoken I feel like that undermines 2003, which is good in its own right, and ignores that 2003 makes a multitude of changes leading up to where it diverges.
@@azrielsatan8693 yeah, that's valid, and I think the person who brought up that order did it mostly for the sake of rewatches, not for first viewings.
TL;DR -
Watching Fate/Zero first is a terrible idea because of it's status as a prequel; it assumes you already know the source material (Being the Visual Novel, or at the very worst the 2006 adaptation) so it doesn't care about trowing you spoilers about the characters in F/SN.
You just watched the 2006 anime, or just 2014 UBW anime? Or neither? Don't care there's spoiler even for the third route
Is not that hard
We still don't have a remake of the adaptation of the first route "FATE", so 2006 DEEN's adaptation has to do. Is not that bad really; it has the basis of magic system, the Grial War format, the Servants, the Masters and the lesson of "It's not fully about power, it's about compatibility and circumstances".
The time jump to 2014 Unlimited Blade Works anime, the second route.
Then another time jump to 2021-22 for Heaven's Feel movies, the third route.
That should be it.
Form that point you can go wherever the heck you want.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The point where you know that watching Fate/Zero first is a terrible idea is watching reactions of people that did exactly that.
Then they see a character and go like:
" Oh look, it's Sakura! Well, at least she looks happy now after everything that happened to her."
"Oh look, it's Kirei! But hey! Where is Archer?"
"Oh look, it's Illya!..."
And then when said revelations happen in the source material they feel flat, because they already "knew".
In Fate/Stay Night You are not supposed to know what happened with Sakura besides what Shirou knows about her. Hell, you don't even know ANYTHING about her plotline until the third route, and then by that point it hits you like a truck, because she was always sidelined because "She is not involved in this war". So spoiler for the third route.
You are not supposed to know HOW did Kirei survived the last war. You are informed pretty early that he was a survivor, but no the how or what alliances and betrayals he committed, or the true nature of is character. So spoiler for the first and third routes.
You are not supposed to know who really is Illya. Who where her parents, why she wants to kill Shirou... and why that changes so easily. Hell, even her true age. So spoilers for the third route.
Saber identity is the "Aerith dies" of Fate, so it get a pass. BUT what you are not supposed to know is HOW Kiritsugu saved Shirou and why he summoned Saber.
You are not supposed to know Kiritsugu as the badass magic assassin, because that's not the man that saved Shirou, the one he knew. He knew a tired man that couldn't cook to save his life who was constantly distracted and traveling for "business" to Europe. So spoilers for the third route.
You are not supposed to know WHAT is the "Holy Grail".
Outside of "Granting wishes" and "Helping in Summoning Servants" you are not supposed to know what is it's real purpose, how does it work, how's supposed to work, and what is wrong with it. SO spoilers for every route, specially for the third.
Thank you so much algorithm. I love this video, especially as a Fate fan. Brilliantly put together and I'm gonna share this around.
The best watch order for Full Metal Alchemist is to watch the original series in full THEN watch brotherhood in full
i actually watch haruhi first time with the chronological order
kinda regret it after watching the broadcast order when i watch it for the second time since i actually love the "mystery" that they want to make but if you already know the story the "mystery" is worthless
Finally a nuanced opinion on this whole thing. Although I don't personally believe in spoilers being a deal breaker (if a story is good, you knowing something will happen should not ruin the experience in my opinion), the debacle of watch orders and read orders confuses me to this day. I really enjoyed the video and can't wait to see what else you have to say about it if you ever make a follow-up video! But then we'll have the paradox of which video should one watch first to get the maximum out of your viewpoint on watch orders... which sounds like a fun thing.
The first entry point for Fate is Carnival Phantasm.
thank you for this video it really made me think about certain aspects of watch orders, I also felt very cool because I have watched every anime mentioned in the video.
The thing about fate zero is that it constructs it's plot presuming that the knowledge is of someone that has read the three routes of the vn, like, Sakura being Rin's sis is supposed to be a plot twist, Kirei's nature as a character is also supposed to be a slow burner of the sorts, you're not sure he's evil or not but he is developed nicely in HF, and the whole thing surrounding Angra mainyu having corrupted the grail is explored more interestingly in the vn, where in Fate zero is more like, a necessary addition
The problem to me isn't that Zero is hard to understand without stay night, it definitely is, but more because it kind of spoils a lot of interesting stuff of the original Visual Novel, if the person isn't willing to read the vn I'd just recommend watching any of the animes in any order, preferably UBW and HF and then Zero, the Deen stay night is good but it's easy to see why someone wouldn't want to watch it, telling them that Kaleid Liner is the weird one of the series and not really comparable to the rest
And then you have FGO where you kind of have to play the game because there is an order and only parts of it actually got an adaptation. Also the same person that told you about FGO will probably recommend not playing the game. Mostly because the gacha mechanics are horrible, and the gameplay is dated, but alright. The entire game is carried by the IP and story, which unfortunately kind of starts slow, but damn does the writing quality start to pick up at a fast rate after a couple of chapters and oh boy does part 2 get so much better. There is also side stories some of which fully flesh out other characters, with someone like Jalter being incredibly fleshed out for a character they decided to bring back after she was defeated in a chapter. Think of her like getting the Harley Quinn treatment from Batman the Animated series.
@@kosmosXcannon I hate the fact they skipped the first five singularities, God, it's like telling people to skip parts of Jojo, it just feels wrong to do so, none of them is bad enough to warrant this treatment, and some rewriting wouldn't be impossible for an anime, it just feels so soulless on their part
Also the soundtrack, this is specifically an ufotable problem, it took me a while to realize the problem I had with it, but I finally found a way to say it, every OST of Ufotable, sounds the fucking same, comparing to the vn when the first time you hear the EMIYA theme, it sounds like nothing you had heard in the game, and every time it plays it feels just as epic as the last, it feels special, Ufotable though? Well, Zero had some recognizable ones, since I had played the VN before, Zero was my first fate anime so maybe I'm biased for liking it, everything else, if it's not a remix, I don't remember
Compare that to Fgo and Kaleid Liner, nowadays everything Fgo puts out sounds fire af, and Kaleid Liner's soundtrack just makes my bones shake, that shit gives me eargasms every time
@@justanothergabs4710 I think my favorite sound tracks are from CCC with Kiara's and BB's theme and the one that plays for Melt. I also liked the song that plays for Kama's event trailer or whatever. Koyanskaya's theme is also good. I think I have a thing for bad girls.
@@kosmosXcannon fgo's bad girls hit different, I never had any particular feelings for saber alter but when I heard her final ascension like I decided to grail her to a 100, no regrets either as she is strong as hell
But I myself I prefer the nicer girls, just after playing Atlantis I went and leveled Corday up to 90, I'll get her to a 100 soon though, for sure
@@justanothergabs4710 Yeah I like all the Jeannes, especially Jalter. I actually got her as an NP2 where I got 2 copies like on my last 10 roll from her very first banner. I love that tsundere.
I too have the attention span of Goblin Guide entering the battlefield
mi mi miracle mikurunrun
I knew nothing about Ex-Arm.
I've paused at 20:34, read the synopsis blurb and honestly though the premise sounds kinda intriguing. "shoot, now I've spoiled the first few episodes for myself"
I guess that goes to show how much execution matters in the end and premise is just a very small fraction of the whole story.
Great video you did a good job explaining all of your points. Keep it up
I'm surprised I bothered sticking around for Haruhi, because damn if I looked at it today, I would have skipped.
My time is short as an adult.
Your video was recommended after a Scamboli Reviews video. This is also my first time seeing your channel/video, so I consider this a win for you. You got my subscription! :)
The idea that broadcast order Haruhi somehow captures author intent is a ridiculous notion. The source material (novels) starts with Melancholy for a reason: it provides crucial details about all of the characters that enhance your appreciation of otherwise seemingly mundane events. The novels and anime both jump around in time, but the massive Craterhoof Behemoth sized difference is that the novels never make you guess when events are happening.
I don't think broadcast order is bad or wrong or anything, but chronological is a perfectly fine way to watch the show for your first time and is not in any way a compromise of the source material.
Let's all remember Peach Boy Riverside exists...
....as a bad example.
Where to start on the fate zero UBW loop is only a problem if you forget it’s not an actual loop because the 2006 version exists.
It’s not that good but it exists
@@Pekaman66 which is why most people recommend UBW as it is a much better show and gets you mostly to the same place. even if both it and Zero assume you watched it or played the VN.
Yeah episode 00 of haruhi is weird.
Fate specifically I would just start visual novel first route which fate serves as introduction not only to world but shirou mindset on becoming hero of justice. Each route builds upon other tackling that mindset in different ways. Leading to heavens feel which best route in visual novel. Fate Zero dressing on top kiritsugu emiya both reflection of Shirou and Archer. Because Shirou is deconstruction of shonen protagonist. Throw fate oath under snow as another way answering that same hero of justice mindset.
this is great, hope your channel grows brother
Naruto watch order, but with shuppunden filler inserted back into original series.
Prince of Tennis comes to mind... Where there are so many differently named series plus so many ova's that have come out overtime in different parts of the timeline, it makes it a bit much to figure out on your own. Especially since some sites only have a few so you have to bounce around to different sites to keep the order.
When it comes Fate atleast I'd go for Deen/stay night cus while "mediocre" in a lot of ways it is the first adaptation of Fate & the 1st route of the first Fate installment where u can then watch all the other routes & or Zero then ur free from there but for me I typically jus go Release order cus there is a calculated intention that I tend to trust & it works for me(like the aforementioned Haruhi/Monogatari)
This was really well-written, definitely not because I am biased as Haruhi, Monogatari, and Fate are my favourite franchises.
I heard DDBY music and that's omega based I'm subscribing (also your videos are good)
The only watch order is a release order. *drops the mic and leaves*
I know it is more work, and is not part of the video, but can be helpful if there were a comment with the background animes.
I want to know the anime at 15:21...
Shirobako, specifically the scene... or segment... is from the movie
My general rule of thumb is Release Date order
The concept of watch orders is always interesting to me because they often come up with nerd media outside of anime as well.
Star Wars immediately comes to mind. Some hardcore fans will suggest following the Machete order (named for the blog it originates from, Absolutely No Machete Juggling), an alternate viewing order that is neither chronological nor based on order of release. This order starts with A New Hope, continues with The Empire Strikes Back, but instead of going straight into Return of the Jedi, takes a detour through Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, treating them as an extended flashback. It also skips Phantom Menace entirely, instead shunting it off to the side to be watched alongside the other anthology films.
Coming back to this over a year later, I just realized that I never actually explained why the Machete Order exists. Spoilers for one of the biggest movie franchises of all time ahead:
so the thing with Star Wars is that, like... it's in a weird position where it seems like the prequels were simultaneously written under the assumption that you should watch them first, but also that you should watch them with knowledge of how the original trilogy plays out. The numbering is in chronological order, and the big twist with Palpatine is spoiled from the get go if you already saw the original trilogy... but it also spoils the Darth Vader twist from the original trilogy if you watch it first (though admittedly that is probably the most spoiled twist of all time), and there are also a ton of nods to the original trilogy that you won't get if you haven't actually seen it.
where the Machete order comes in is that it identifies the fact that the Vader twist happens in The Empire Strikes Back, but the reveal in the Original Trilogy that spoils the Palpatine twist in the prequels doesn't happen until Return of the Jedi. Thus you can basically shove the prequels in between those two movies and treat them as an extended flashback. From there you can experience the Vader twist and appreciate most of the Prequels' nods to the original trilogy, but also not have the admittedly heavily telegraphed Palpatine twist spoiled for you.
... or you can just watch the Original Trilogy and never touch anything else to come out of Star Wars
Ironically in the Fate case, I think the original FSN serves as the best starting point for the series in that it satisfies the broadcast order and roughly satisfies the source order (technically adapting the first route of the original story, though truly being a Frankenstein monster of all three but still adapting the first whole work), onboarding viewers in a similar fashion to the source while not skipping any pre-existing source material Plus, since it was created before Fate/Zero, it isn't as intrinsically linked (ie no direct callbacks like UBW had) which means it minimizes spoilers for Zero. It also has the bonus of allowing you to truly appreciate how visually fantastic Ufotable's adaptations are in comparison- the only problem being you have to suffer through 25 episodes of a truly compromised product.
It's, imo, the best starting point that I cannot recommend to anyone to actually start with.
Dang man, how do you only have 383 subscribers? I got there are good sound choices for the background music. But yes Monogatari is one of the most confusing series to find the watch order. It's an amazing series but confusing to start. I will say watching your video makes me want to go back and rewatch/watch some animes I've haven't gotten to
I don't think Fate has a "right" watch order, however, there sure is a "best" watch order. I prety much recomend Zero as a starting point, not only because is the best nasuverse work for me, but also because the information dump that comes in the original work seams more intresting this way for solving many of the questions that Zero doesn't answer properly for the sake of not slowing down the story.
wrong
I felt like the information given in stay night wasn't as much important because we've already seen it's details in zero. If anything, the information adds to the work itself, and not to zero.
in my opinion release order is almost always the proper order
I am going to say something a bit controversial about fate. the correct starting point was not in your list though UBW is a decent alternative (and is a better work so that is why everyone defaults to it). depending on your stance on VN and eroge. the correct starting point is either the much poorer Fate/stay night original anime. OR the VN. UBW is an alternate timeline from the cannon line. nearly every anime is. the original Fate/Staynight Anime is the series that Zero is the prequel for. (though that is a technicality as the timeline branches after zero ends.) For Shirou's story to work properly you CANNOT know the things Zero will tell you about his father. if you know things he does not neither his actions nor Saber allowing him to keep not knowing makes sense and it runis the story. but If you see his story first Zero presumes you know it. thus the twist
(Spoilers here)
that his father was not the hero of justice he wishes to emulate but actually a very dark antihero bordering on full on well intentioned villainy. the twist of both stories requires you to know how Shiro sees his father but NOT know how his father actually was until later. this story not being the story you expected after seeing the other show is part of zero's point in existence. and if you saw it first the story undermines Shiro's entire plot and future self. the reason Archer turns out the way he did is that Shiro lacks basic information about who his father was. how toxic the dream he inherited is. and that his father never intended for him to either A take up that dream. nor B idolize himself in any way and is in fact directly responsible for his being orphaned and for the event that made Shiro desire to be a hero in the first place. all the "good" ends to the Fate VN have his outright reject his dream in one way or another. as the entire premise is horrid and flawed. if you watch Zero first you know all this. and Shiro is either an idiot or a tragic figure. If you watch his story first he seems like a typical anime protagonist. kindhearted generally good if a bit naïve and if only the rest of the world were a bit more like him maybe the conflict wouldn't be happening at all depending on timeline you grown with him (or don't) and his choices make sense to you for what he experienced and as a consequence of what happened.
basically Shiro's story has to come first if you want to see things the way Shiro sees things and that story is predicated on you making his journey with him and either concluding that A) something else is of more value for him to seek and strive for than the original dream (saber in fate/stay night) he is not powerful enough to pursue the dream even though he does not realize and in fact rejects the argument that his dream is wrong (UBW especially in the best ending) or else that the dream was wrong and that rather than sacrificing himself for anyone and anything he sees in the whole wide world he should instead sacrifice that ultimately self aggrandizing and selfish desire for the betterment of those who he cares about and are suffering within his reach (heavens Feel) . any other watch order tells you that your protagonist is wrong and simply refuses to understand the reality he exist in. and is probably stupid because he has more than enough information and sources and evidence to know he is wrong. and invalidates the entire struggle.
if you watch Grand order, apocrypha or any other grail war. while you don't know the whole story you know that Shiro is fundamentally wrong about the kind of world he lives in. it makes it harder to be on his side as he screws up because your not learning that he was wrong as he does. your not thinking that it is just these few people that are aberrant and crazy but instead your watching someone make obvious mistakes that several people with more experience and knowledge outright told him were mistakes and you already knew they were right.
if you watch the family story first you have no reason to care about them being a family and the other shows will make no sense in context. you may also learn things that undermine the other stories in referential materiel. (to be fair it barely makes sense in context with itself. it is more wish fulfillment for all the tortured souls than anything else. )
My biggest Haruhi watch order hot take is regardless of the order you watch, you should always end with Someday in the Rain because it leads really well into Disappearance.
Anyone know the ost at 10:31? Sounds so familiar but I can’t put my finger on it
That would be Bordeaux by the circle flap+frog
@@lab-ra-stories definitely did not know that lmao but thank you very much!
I first watched Haruhi in it's origonla broadcast order because certianly people reccomended it and I regret that decision. The purpose of airing those episodes out of rode was soley so the finale can feel like a finale, but no one todya is going waiting a week between each episode and any order are gonna wind ending on the movies, so that's an outdated irrelevent argument. But the reaons some people sitll aruge for it is nsotalgia, they remmeber how tribby the whole experience was and think everyone who would be itno Harhi would feel the same, they do not.
My problem with the Haruhi broadcast order is that in my opinion shoudln't have been a TV ANime to begin with, it should have always been movies and OVAs for the short stories. What's today rare about Haruhi si that the very firs tnovel does work as a single stand alone story, if there had never been sequel the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya would still a neat interest scifi story on it's own, most LNs aren't like that, they are from concept transparantly wrriten by the merer opneing arc of an ongoing saga. The orignal Haruhi story's ability to stand on it's own derves to be apreciated yet it isn't because Anime only people keeping watching it is this garbele doder the ruiend the clever escalation.
Fate/Zero has no spoilers for Unlimtied Blade Works, what it arguably spoils is far mroe relevent ot the other routes, the central twis of UBW is utterly irelevent to the event sof Zero. Fate/Zero should be watched because it's kind of the only is a complete story on it's own and also the only one that's at all Normie Freindly.
And normies should just gatekeep themselves.
This is the correct Haruhi take. People should really just watch whichever order sounds better to them. It truly doesn't matter.
Oh thank god, I thought you were about to be one of those UBW first stans
Tldr watch monogatari
the entire video i was waiting for you to get to fate, the poster child of people arguing about watch order (and timelines, but let's not talk about that one, alright?). i usually just give people a quick rundown of some of the characters and the general plot, and if you like the sound of it, start there. most of it is entirely disconnected from itself, if you don't like magical girls, don't watch kaleid. you like scifi? last encore takes place inside a simulation in a super computer on the moon, and magic is executing code in the system.
My stance on endless eight is that obviously it's fucking stupid to air that shit.... BUT it really makes for such an amazing story now that it's all out
There really is no watch order for Fate, you read the VN first and then watch whatever you want as Fate/UBW/HF are meant to be a three part meta narrative and you can't experience them in that way very well in anime form for a number of reasons.
What is the anime that plays at 0:33?
Denkigai no Honya-san
What is the song that plays at 15:35?
[Touhou] Old Apple (原曲：Bad Apple!!) - Jazz Mix
@@lab-ra-stories Thanks!
really good video. good job man
yeah idgaf. gonna watch the holiday spin-off episode of an anime I've never seen first, then watch season 1 then watch nothing else. Thanks for your opinion tho
There is a correct watch order for fate, well, a read order I guess. You read the damn Stay/Night VN and go from there. Either to Hollow Ataraxia or to the Zero anime. The reason most people would strongly discourage watching Zero first, is that it ruins the original Visual Novel which is miles better than the anime adaptations, but relies on you coming in clueless about Ilya /Sakura /Kirei / Gil / Kiritsugu. Watching Zero first spoils Heaven's Feel in a way that you can no longer get a clean reading of the Fate and UBW routes and the shattering revelations in Heaven's Feel. You could arguably go from Ufotable's UBW to the Heaven's Feel Movies and then to Zero, but that'll still make it impossible to get a proper reading of Staynight's Fate route. Just read the VN first for the best possible experience, it's really that simple
26:02 oh my god what is this song? It's so familiar but I cant rememberrrr
【東方Soft Rock】 トランスパレント 「Hachimitsu-Lemon」
or at least that's how you can find it on youtube.
@@lab-ra-stories Ooohhhhhhh it's touhou music!! Thanks thanks!
As a huge fan of Monogatari, Fate, and Haruhi, I've encountered an endless amount of watch order debates, just about all of which were completely and utterly unproductive for everyone involved. The issue with the discourse surrounding watch orders is that people are overly concerned with curating the viewing experience by creating a universal, standardized system, which if you ask me, entirely misses the point. It really feels like all the effort put into obsessively arguing over the "perfect" or "most-approximately-intended" order would be better spent by creating guides that simply explain the existing watch orders in a neutral, unbiased fashion. In other words, watch order guides should ideally be designed to inform people of the options available to them and what those options entail so that they can make their own choice based on their personal interests and sensibilities. It should simply go without saying that different people will have different experiences with a work, not to mention they may have different value systems in regards to what aspects of an experience they consider worth preserving. For instance, the notion of getting Heaven's Feel spoilers by watching Fate/Zero first is hardly an issue if the viewer in question is simply less sensitive to spoilers to begin with. It's also somewhat odd to me when people hold the "author's intent" as sacred when it comes to adaptations, especially considering that, by its very nature, an anime adaptation is not something the creator strictly intended-and in Nisio's case, considered to be downright inconceivable, as you mentioned. When a work gets adapted into a different medium, the intentions of countless artists are inherently mixing themselves in with the original work in a transformative manner, and there is no better example of this than the Kizumonogatari trilogy. Even though it wasn't originally intended to be released 7 years late, its undeniable that the Kizumonogatari is an incredibly transformative adaptation that amplifies the scope and gravitas of the story to an exceptional degree. To say that one should watch Kizu after Bake solely on the basis that "it was written that way in the novels" is rather shallow reasoning, and feels entirely dismissive of the fact that an adaptation of a series = / = the source material, especially when significant creative liberties are taken with it. Essentially, I think that these types of discussions should aim to be more nuanced, and discuss the different types of watching experiences on even ground by acknowledging the various interests and values that different people might have, and to more holistically recognize the complicated clusters of factors that can contribute to one's experience with the work.
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... It Depends on the Adaptation of the Source.
I mean, the absolutely correct watch order for Fate is to just read the visual novel lmao
happy 420 subs
Unlimited blade works did NOT come out after zero. Ubw's story came out as part of the original vn as the first work in the fate franchise.
yeah this guy has no idea what hes talking about
Read orders are also very important for Superhero Comics.
From my superficial understanding, I can only imagine how chaotic it gets with multiple reboots and several different universes. I also think that some superhero's don't have dedicated writers so it becomes a whole bunch of different stories by different people that may or may not have anything to do with each other.
There is no read order for superhero comics.
I fucking hate watch orders.
If I am a beginner that is interested in Fate, I don't want to know my 5-year-plan for the next year of anime watching. I don't care whether I should play the gacha game _before_ or _after_ the VNs. I don't care.
*Just tell me what to watch first.*
If I liked it, I'll come back and either ask for what to watch second, or I'll probably figure it out on my own, because at that point I _might_ give enough of a fuck about it.
But at the moment, the reason I'm asking for the next step in the first place is because _I don't care_ enough about to it research it myself. So don't bog me down with the details or I'll give up immediately
Start Fate Unlimited Blade Works, then Fate Heavens Feel, then Fate Zero. After that it doesnt matter cause all the others are different timelines
Haruhi lol
Feel like you missed the BIG point
At some extent the anime script was re-written to account for the fact that is in a different order from the novels.this is part of why bake and zero go harder on the explaining that they would otherwise do. Kizu and havens feel got away with skimming over the rules bcz bake and zero already did some of the heavy lifting if terms of exposition
Always release order. Lets you follow the understanding of the community, atleast if you want the best perspective, depending on what you want though just jump in somewhere, I started Gundam with Gundam 00 because it sounded like the start and that was a long time ago though, but it is a little different than something like the a certain series, because they are very loosely related, instead of isolated stories, but you could also start dragonball with z, maybe super if your of a younger generation. Recommend release order, but that is just a recommendation, if you are unsure if you will enjoy it, maybe just start with a popular arc, or a community opinion good starter point.
For fate the only entry in the franchise that have a watch order is the 3 road of the first visual novel in the vn you force to watch i this order stay night next unlimited blade work and last the most important of the three heaven feel the 3 time is the same story but in the 2 first road shirou fail and become archer ( not the one of the serie but a archer ) and regret it in the last road he give up of his dream of become a heros and acepte to be adulte another point is that in the vn nothink hint that sakura is the main antagoniste of the serie : in fact in every road exept heaven feel shirou learn the true about sakura kill her and become archer and personaly i think that why you should not start or watch zero beford heaven feel another point is that the autor say that saber road is the choix of a child , unlimeted black work the choix of a adolesend and heaven feel the choix of a adulte sadly the first adaptation of the vn is prety bad so nobody exept the one that start beford zero was airing start with it nowday and i think the only good order for haruhi is the chronoliccal order i watch the broadcasting order when it air and it realy bad just random order
Peach Boy Riverside got massive backlash from its choice of episode order, and ruined the comment section of every video with people complaining about how confusing it was. Non linear order isn’t that confusing, come on!
So I’ll be the odd fate fan out in this comments section and agree with your saying Fate doesn’t have a watch order. I think the fanbase tends to get really attached to their viewing order and interpretation of events of the different stories so they get defensive. But a lot of the through lines end up being thematic and the type of thing only really noticeable on rewatch for most people. Fate is almost always written in a way to be inviting to new people with each individual entry as you don’t need to know all the lore, characters, or themes to understand an individual entry so the timeline mess is a complete nonissue unless you dwell on it. You will miss stuff but I don’t see it as any different than watching say an MCU movie out of release order. It’s just not that big a deal. The fact that a massive chunk of the fanbase started with fate zero or FGO speaks for the pointlessness of it all. And honestly I kind of like the result of it all where Fate is different things to different people and where no best entries can be decided on cause we all look for different things.
Fate/Zero anime came out after the Visual Novel, expecting viewers to have already played/read stay night and heavens feel in the VN so technically the order is UBW->movies->Zero. The rest don't have a watch order. Also you forgot about Railgun/Index series.
subbed
I felt this for steins;gate and fate. dunno if theres anythin else I felt it on. I dont watch lots of mid tier anime.
oh also Danganronpa. i hate that they didnt just go in order with the anime, im not a fan of LN lol.
When i watch vinland saga i always try to watch it in the order of the manga which creates better intrigue for the protagonist. But its not a big deal. The manga has a stronger introduction in my opinion. The way the anime does it just sort of spoils some important story stuff.
I disagree about the Fate series not having a watch order. The way I see it Fate/Stay Night is big one story and the three routes represent different parts of it: Fate-beginning, UBW-middle, Heaven's Feel-end. The mystery is also very important to the narrative with a lot of elements purposefully hidden from the audience. Fate/Zero on the other hand reveals to you all the information from the start except for the ending which is also not explained in the anime since it assumes that the audience is familiar with Fate/Stay Night and therefor knows what happens. "Spoiling" the end of Fate/Zero isn't a big deal because the story isn't written around that, it's about how the characters that you've heard of got there instead. In fact I see Fate/Zero as Gen Urobuchi's own version of Fate/Stay Night's story and themes in a more linear and simpler structure that Nasu's visual novel.
Basically, though starting with UBW isn't perfect, like starting in the middle a story instead of the beginning, it is better than ruining the end of a story by watching a spin-off first. This makes me wonder if you even watched the Heaven's Feel movies before making this video.
Other than that I really enjoyed this video ❤
Came to type this. Fate is a franchise that spoils the heck of the original material. You should first read the Visual Novel, the three routes, and the watch/read/play whatever the heck you want. You could watch FSN anime first, but its not that good and spoils things from the other 2 routes. You shouldn't start with UBW or HF because Shirou is not the main character in UBW, HF meanwhile is the culmination of Shirou's arc and the logical conclusion of his ideals.
Even Gen Urobuchi himself Said, TO NOT READ/WATCH FATE/ZERO FIRST.
THE LITERAL Author intent.
I came back to apologize in case my original comment sounded to aggressive lol. I'm sorry I just feel quite passionately about it I guess. I started with Fate/Zero first and I loved it to bits and followed with UBW which in comparison felt underwhelming. But after watching the Heaven's Feel movies and part of the Fate route I had this moment of "oh! I get it now!" and the story made more sense to me and not on a "technical lore type" level but on an emotional narrative level.
How can you talk about watch order and not mention Gundam?
haven't seen it, so I wouldn't know what to say about it
@@lab-ra-stories fair enough, but for Gundam there’s so many valid watch orders. There’s a lot of accessible shows, but it’s more of a matter of which series will get the person hooked rather than chronology. And certain series should be watched in a certain order, so it can get confusing.
so its more like a bunch of history textbooks where all the events are technically about the same place (or perhaps theme in this case), but you can start with whatever events interest you.
If you don't mind me asking, what would a good starting point be for someone who enjoys mysteries? (not that the series has to have a mystery plot or subplot, more so just intellectually engaging or straight up confusing)
@@lab-ra-stories interesting question. I think that some Gundam series are in the ball park of what you are looking for. My go to recommendation is the first Gundam series, because it holds up really well for an old anime, and it is where you should start if you want to get into the “main timeline” which is called Universal Century. It’s isn’t really a mystery, but the last like 10 episodes is very similar to the weird stuff at the end of 2001 A Space Odyssey.
But for a more straightforward mystery is Gundam 00 which centers around a group of Gundam Pilots who want to end all war, and part of the plot is trying to find out what the creator who died 100 years ago had for motives. We don’t know the grander plan behind the Gundam.
Turn A Gundam is the most mysterious Gundam show, but it becomes more confusing if you’ve seen at least Gundam 1979. It’s basically moon people with a bunch of space technology against early 20th century America. It just works better if you’ve seen the other shows, but you could probably understand the plot without them.
@@lab-ra-stories also another clarification: there’s multiple timelines, that don’t connect with one another. Most of them are about war is bad, but they are really different. G Gundam is basically a Saturday Morning Cartoon with a bit of political stuff, but it’s most goofy. Look up the premise, it’s really wacky
Also if you want confusing, apparently Reconguista in G (G Reco for short) is apparently really confusing, but apparently not very good. Haven’t seen it myself, but I guess that’s another recommendation.
What about toaru ? Then again the anime adaptation is... well... meh. Depends which season and what show
you know that's actually quite intriguing. As noted some of the seasons got pretty poor adaptations (especially when it comes to the index side), which might make for the argument that a 'watch' order includes some anime and then wants you to read from the source for context until it gets better.
Additionally, while Index and Railgun take place at generally the same time, there fairly different stories that can be mostly understood in complete isolation. Its like the characters just appear as cameo's while the other protagonist does there thing, and so its not super concrete on whether its necessary to watch both in order to understand the implications of certain plot beats.
@@lab-ra-stories fairly different stories that can be mostly understood in complete isolation ? Sure maybe for the first season of railgun. But Railgun S has the grander scale of Index I's sisters' arc and in Railgun T there are... the things that come out of a certain boy's arm that for a railgun only might seem to go out of the blue. Same for Accelerator. Although, you actually can watch before anything and it might be interesting because you don't know his past if you start with Accelerator (I know a guy who did that). Also in the community there is also the grand question of watch order too. Like there is either the broadcast order, or the chronological order. And it's pretty divisive. Not to mention the railgun only route (since Index is the weaker adaptation, which is normal since it's from the LN).
@@lab-ra-stories I think the adaptations of Index were fine, and Railgun were really good, but goddammit, Index III should have never existed, it brings the whole series' overall quality down by a LOT! Thankfully Railgun T exists to bring things back up again, but the damage caused by III will never be undone unless they scrap it and redo it right this time.
As for the watch order of those, I'd say it's best to watch the broadcast release. Railgun and Index are all works that complement each other at the beginning of their respective subseries, with only Index being able to be enjoyed as a standalone since it is a direct adaptation of the source material. But Railgun needs knowledge of Index after the second season, Accelerator can only work if you watched Index too and is enhanced with Railgun S, while Astral Buddy simply cannot work if you haven't seen Railgun.
Let's be honest here, the To Aru series is not meant to be consumed one series only, you do need to watch the rest of the series to get the full picture, and that is its selling point. It may not be for everyone, but in my eyes it just means you get rewarded for your time invested in the series.
Trying to watch/read Toaru chronologically is suicided.
Just stick to broadcast/release order.
wait, this is the first time im hearing this. is this the reason i didnt enjoy this show? because it was out of order? 15 years ago when i watched it, i hear all the hype, but didn't particularly enjoy it.
Bruhh you did NOT just defend the S;G Chronological order 😭😭😭
Can we STOP spreading that dumb order around??? You mention in the intro that an order should keep the author's intent and the Chronological order is anything BUT that????
Alternative watch orders just keeps indecisive people from watching something. For S;G the alternative order is just garbage that doesn't need to exist. Just do release, quick and simple. There is no need for discourse about this.
Aaaaaa you mention authorial intent again for the Haruhi section, why is Steins;Gate somehow exempt from that??? S;G 0 was released HALF A DECADE after S;G, how is the intent for a whole new story written by different people with different characters to be shoved in the end of S;G???
Adding on to this: the "chronological order" IS NOT EVEN TRUE CHRONOLOGICALLY. I've heard its great for a rewatch tho, but for me S;G0 kinda slows down too much halfway for it to be enjoyable.
I enjoyed this video until you talk about Fate. Neither the correct starting point for Fate is UBW nor Zero. The VN is the correct one. If you don't read the VN, might as well start from anywhere
Great video but PLEASEDE clear your throat😭😭😭
Release order or go home
No
@@cheeseboi588 yes
YES
sorry but you have no idea what youre talking about with steins gate and fate
I STRONGLY disagree that Ufotable's Unlimited Blade Works should EVER be watched first. I don't give a shit about the source material. The anime was literally produced as a sequel to Zero. Anyone who suggest otherwise is absolutely incorrect.
The only two acceptable starting points would be Deen's Fate/Stay Night or Ufotable's Fate/Zero.
14:37 that dude just used Hermit Purple