@@Vincent_Quak I have ordered one, but it's one with printed keycaps, and ISO to boot, so it's going to be one of the last ones to arrive xD . But yes, I'll definitely be covering it, and it'll get its own trailer too :) .
Clint can I just say how much I appreciate how clean your videos are? I’m never pestered to subscribe and enable notifications, no silly music or overly wrought production values. Just nice simple “hey let’s assemble a model F keyboard.” Seriously its nice to see someone just love sharing his hobby with the internets.
Taking apart an F keyboard assembly isn't too bad. Getting it back together is more tough. You bend back the single lock tab and the whole plate slides in one direction and pops right off. Getting it back on can require clamping or a second set of hands to get it slid back in place.
I'm glad someone else noticed, that locking mechanism was awesome. Now a days the cable would just get shoved on their with just a dab of hot glue to hold it if you're lucky.
Can confirm, typing this on my Model F, it is my second weapon in the house should someone break in. I already told my room mate if someone broke in, she's to use this keyboard because it will knock them out cold, AND still work most likely without even a dent.
I do wonder at times if Cold War mentality was at work here. The internet was still military-run Arpanet. The greatest keyboard was the Symbolics Spacecadet, which, after all, went with $100,000+ computer. also US steel was still the greatest in the world and we were proud of it. All in all, I think God might have been more merciful if he put us out of our misery in a Global Thermonuclear War! ☠️
These bring back memories. Couldn't give them away in the 90's, no one wanted the "old layout" or super loud clicky keys 😂 I guess kids didn't like the idea mom and dad could hear them playing doom at 3am 😛
I don't know why, but the replacing of the rubber feet on things like this is so damn satisfying. Usually because there's one missing, if it's a used item. The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy game reviews dood.
Hey Clint! As a long-time tech enthusiast I'm sure you already know about this trick, but to anyone else who struggles with those obnoxious flat-head screws: Generally if you have a screw-driver that takes bits, you can actually remove the bit and use the hex socket of the screwdriver on the hex-heads of the machine screws. They're almost always a perfect fit, and makes things WAY easier to screw in. :)
I typically just use a hex head bit instead, which I think would be a 3/16" hex screw in this case. This wasn't recorded at home where I have all my tools though so I just used what I had on hand. Blerbs is not about doing things as best as possible, it's just about doing _things_ :)
Honestly I really like the layout of the model F after using it for a while. I just used the Soarers converter to remap Caps Lock to be a function key to add in some of the missing keys for when I use it on a modern PC, and now I think I might like it better than the standard layout. Only thing is I do wish it had some proper arrow keys instead of having to toggle num lock.
I had a clone of this keyboard growing up, I grew very accustomed to pgup/pgdn home/end in the positions around the arrow keys, and the function keys on the left. You would keep the num lock off all the time unless you were doing some tedious data entry or something.
I'm so glad you made this second channel! Great for those of us who want some unpolished videos of all the random stuff you go through between/while working on you main videos. I would love to tinker with and restore old hardware like this, but I just don't have the means to do so. I'm glad I can do it vicariously through your videos. (Maybe better this way, because then I don't have to deal with the clean-up from each project.)
I wish that I still had my IBM 5150 and Model F from childhood. Computing was such a tactile experience back then. The click of that big red power switch, the floppy initialization sounds, the click clack of the buckling springs.
I recall that yellow "ghosting" around the keycap legends, too. It appeared as though the manufacturer overprinted the legend with a clear varnish, to protect the legend.
Model F keyboards are truly the best, as far as a practical vintage board is concerned (I know about the beamspring, but those are both cost prohibitive and have their limitations). I had a model F AT for quite a while and it was amazing, but as mentioned in the video the layout didn't translate well to a modern system and the spacebar was ridiculously stiff. I was mostly using it for DOS gaming, which worked fine, but having the row of F keys along the left rather than across the top was quite annoying when I'd instinctively go to hit F5 and end up hitting 5 or the top of the case lol. I ended up selling it and, to be honest, I kinda regret it because damn did I love just about everything about it. Awesome to see you using a model F though, especially on an appropriate computer. Hope to see you using it more and more in future videos.
Being able to remind the Model M peons that their keyboard actually uses a membrane must feel SO GOOD. Too bad about the weird old timey terminal layout tho.
@@rich1051414 You can do better than the F AT as well, though the F AT can be converted to ANSI with some dremeling, etc. There were also F variants for a particular banking terminal that had solid zinc cases. These could easily be configured for ANSI layouts, and Ellipse is manufacturing new reproductions of the F62 and F77 variants of these. I have one of the new F77s and an original F107. Wonderful keyboards. The F XT is unusable if you ask me, even as wonderfully pingy and gigantic as it is. As to the original comment, the Model M sucks in my opinion. It feels mediocre, even at its best (I prefer even most modern clicky switches) and the construction/durability of the M was very, very poorly designed. Conversely, the F rivals Alps SKCM blue.
@@Nukle0n Model F and M user here - I couldn't care less if one has a membrane, certainly not enough to feel the need to be a dick to Model M users over something very trivial. Arguably a part from 2KRO, it's not like the membrane is obviously there either - if you somehow made a capacitive version of the Model M flipper and put it in a Model F assembly (along with M springs), it'd likely feel identical.
They sure built them like tanks back then. For that tear in the rubber casing on the cord maybe try some silicone caulk. That should seal it, and prevent it from getting worse.
HO nice!!, I remember seeing that yellow stuff around the letters, always wonder if it was the ink used that did that. Btw the rubbing sound is the floppy itself, it’s rubbing on it’s inner felt, try with a different brand, many of my Memorex floppy sounds like that.
Keyboard holy grail! It's like a Indiana Jones artifact but keyboard based! I'd love to hear Chyrosran22's opinion and take on the new old stock too and a comparison with a well loved one!
a little drop of Super Glue would buy some reassurance on that cable... It's amazing, these keyboards were tossed by the millions, now they're collectible...
Being a habitual dismantler of things myself, looking at the back of the keyboard mech, it looks like you just take one screw out and slide the metal backing plate over to the side and lift off, though not having one to try that out on, I can't be sure on that... :\
There's foam between the front and back plates that is compressed during assembly. Getting these apart and back together usually requires at least pliers, sometimes hammers, and sometimes clamps.
I like that you prefer to have someone who knows what they are doing to restore the keyboard over you doing it your self when you know you can’t do it justice
Seeing the old 5150 often makes me wonder if you're planning to get a 5161 expansion unit at some point. My family had an expander on our PC when I was a kid, adding some extra floppy drives and other things, so I think the system went up to drive letter E:
Yep, I've shown my whole cleaning process for these computers in a number of LGR videos! Magic erasers are always step three or four in my routine, but they only do so much for deep stains and I don't want to wear down the paint job.
I'm also partial to the IBM model M & F keyboards though I always prefered the commercial / industrial grade keyboards (dust covered/ cooking oil/water resistant/corrision resustant & fully sealed/ toughbook-esque options for the Amiga 1200. Many brands and features, the extra wide full keyboard + numpad w/ that ~20mm long 8 way skinny pole, nipple tipped 'joystick' for factory use. I'n pretty sure theae keyboards were repurposed Model M / PS2 keyboards though the 15 key simealtaneous press on some (basically 1 for parity error, add 3+ BUS redyndancy it was really an 8-10 keys at once keyboard at a much greater latency.
hey clint you can get an almost model m layout on a model f but you have to buy an ibm model f122 and then you have to modify it also you only have to bend the 1 tab on a model f and then tap it tiwh a hammer and it will just slide apart i service these all the time
Have you ever tried the 3D printable Model F replacement feet? They're pretty rare and are known to break, I know a lot of restorers delete broken ones during rebuilds, but this gives the keyboard a pretty uncomfortable angle.
That ground loop that you taped over shouldn't be taped... It's supposed to ground to the bottom of the case. The tape prevents this. Not sure if this would cause issues and I'm guessing it's just a drain for static build-up on the bottom metal case, but I'd take a look at that maybe! Love your videos!
Only 5 years younger than me. Amazing how well they built 'em back then. Nowadays you can pay over £150 for a keyboard and its cheap plastic with flashing lights.
There is a thread on Deskthority about making a new PCB, flippers, and springs to convert the M into a capacitive buckling spring. You should check it out
Man, I’m jealous, but not of the keyboard. My family’s first PC compatible knockoff computer had a MAX-12 monitor just like that one. You have it hooked to an MDA card, did you know it’s dual-mode so it’s also directly CGA compatible as well? That’s what we had. PC gaming at 4.77mhz and in 16 shades of amber, w00t!
@@LGRBlerbs Hook that turkey up to something like one of those magical multi-mode ATI Graphics Solution cards and a whole universe of monochrome goodness will be at your fingertips!
It's nice enough to find an old keyboard, new old stock, but a Model F.... noice :D .
Chyrosran! Have you already tried the new Model F, or are planning to try it?
Second 👆🏻
@@Vincent_Quak I have ordered one, but it's one with printed keycaps, and ISO to boot, so it's going to be one of the last ones to arrive xD . But yes, I'll definitely be covering it, and it'll get its own trailer too :) .
That description though lol love it.
Beat me to it lol
Why isn't it a variation on 'F yes''?
Golden opportunity
Clint can I just say how much I appreciate how clean your videos are? I’m never pestered to subscribe and enable notifications, no silly music or overly wrought production values. Just nice simple “hey let’s assemble a model F keyboard.” Seriously its nice to see someone just love sharing his hobby with the internets.
That's some heavy-duty construction right there. That thing's built like a tank.
Maybe even like one of those tank planes
Look up the IBM 4704 variants of the F. Their cases are made of solid zinc, and they're very thick.
Why are Blerbs so amazing?! I love these!
Funny because I didn’t think I would like them but I now look forward to them lol
Because they're better than being bombarded with Election stuff. God Bless LGR!
It’s sort of a return to the original Lazy Game Reviews. Here’s a thing, doing the thing, and that’s the thing
@@mrb692 neat
He's more relaxed, he uses his real life voice
Taking apart an F keyboard assembly isn't too bad. Getting it back together is more tough.
You bend back the single lock tab and the whole plate slides in one direction and pops right off. Getting it back on can require clamping or a second set of hands to get it slid back in place.
Never enough of blerbs
That cable end connector looks like the single most satisfying connector to use that ever esisted
I'm glad someone else noticed, that locking mechanism was awesome. Now a days the cable would just get shoved on their with just a dab of hot glue to hold it if you're lucky.
try a nema l26-30 connector sometime
In something new it would be soldered directly to the board.
This keyboard is also suitable for hand to hand combat!
Slay your foes with the same instrument you compose their death songs on.
A true keyboard warrior wields the incredible power of the IBM model F.
Can confirm, typing this on my Model F, it is my second weapon in the house should someone break in. I already told my room mate if someone broke in, she's to use this keyboard because it will knock them out cold, AND still work most likely without even a dent.
@@_MasterLink_ NICE!!!
I do wonder at times if Cold War mentality was at work here. The internet was still military-run Arpanet. The greatest keyboard was the Symbolics Spacecadet, which, after all, went with $100,000+ computer. also US steel was still the greatest in the world and we were proud of it. All in all, I think God might have been more merciful if he put us out of our misery in a Global Thermonuclear War! ☠️
It’s a Blerbs week! Rejoice brothers!
These bring back memories. Couldn't give them away in the 90's, no one wanted the "old layout" or super loud clicky keys 😂
I guess kids didn't like the idea mom and dad could hear them playing doom at 3am 😛
More likely the old one handed browsing. You could hear these in the mext municipality. Got tiresome pretty quickly.
@@rimmersbryggeri elementary school classroom PCs circa 1997/8 for me. The new keyboards were for the computer lab.
I don't know why, but the replacing of the rubber feet on things like this is so damn satisfying. Usually because there's one missing, if it's a used item.
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy game reviews dood.
This cork-footed beauty sounds like it's hunting it's prey via echolocation.
Hey Clint! As a long-time tech enthusiast I'm sure you already know about this trick, but to anyone else who struggles with those obnoxious flat-head screws: Generally if you have a screw-driver that takes bits, you can actually remove the bit and use the hex socket of the screwdriver on the hex-heads of the machine screws. They're almost always a perfect fit, and makes things WAY easier to screw in. :)
Great trick, but it only works with 1/4" heads.
Was going to say if he has a 6 in one driver they would probably have that size hex
I typically just use a hex head bit instead, which I think would be a 3/16" hex screw in this case. This wasn't recorded at home where I have all my tools though so I just used what I had on hand. Blerbs is not about doing things as best as possible, it's just about doing _things_ :)
I was surprised to hear Greencastle Indiana. I didn't know we had an IBM parts place in this little one horse town.
Honestly I really like the layout of the model F after using it for a while. I just used the Soarers converter to remap Caps Lock to be a function key to add in some of the missing keys for when I use it on a modern PC, and now I think I might like it better than the standard layout. Only thing is I do wish it had some proper arrow keys instead of having to toggle num lock.
I had a clone of this keyboard growing up, I grew very accustomed to pgup/pgdn home/end in the positions around the arrow keys, and the function keys on the left. You would keep the num lock off all the time unless you were doing some tedious data entry or something.
I'm so glad you made this second channel! Great for those of us who want some unpolished videos of all the random stuff you go through between/while working on you main videos. I would love to tinker with and restore old hardware like this, but I just don't have the means to do so. I'm glad I can do it vicariously through your videos. (Maybe better this way, because then I don't have to deal with the clean-up from each project.)
Another fun relaxing video, thank you!
Great Blerb, Clint! I can’t wait to see more of them!
Nice little project turned into an awesome keyboard! Also that amber display is beautiful.
Loving the satisfaction there!
I was 19 days old when that case was made. It has aged better.
I love how he is so enthusiastic about cork feet.
I wish that I still had my IBM 5150 and Model F from childhood. Computing was such a tactile experience back then. The click of that big red power switch, the floppy initialization sounds, the click clack of the buckling springs.
Oh memories! My grams old IBM had a Model F keyboard. I typed up many a book report on that old thing.
That ping...oh! Such beauty!
The yellowing around the print is kinda normal. We had PCs in high school (1987) with it.
I recall that yellow "ghosting" around the keycap legends, too. It appeared as though the manufacturer overprinted the legend with a clear varnish, to protect the legend.
Model Fs are definitely my favorite keyboards. I've been eyeing that new production run of model F77s for a while.
I daily one. It's great.
Gosh i really love that amber display so crisp and that color mmmm ya more please
I'm busy at the moment stop making notifications TH-cam please!
Click on this "Subscribed" icon. Easy peasy.
Turn on silent mode or do not disturb.
Cork would be a natural progression from woodgrain for you.
Model F keyboards are truly the best, as far as a practical vintage board is concerned (I know about the beamspring, but those are both cost prohibitive and have their limitations). I had a model F AT for quite a while and it was amazing, but as mentioned in the video the layout didn't translate well to a modern system and the spacebar was ridiculously stiff. I was mostly using it for DOS gaming, which worked fine, but having the row of F keys along the left rather than across the top was quite annoying when I'd instinctively go to hit F5 and end up hitting 5 or the top of the case lol. I ended up selling it and, to be honest, I kinda regret it because damn did I love just about everything about it.
Awesome to see you using a model F though, especially on an appropriate computer. Hope to see you using it more and more in future videos.
The Model F is the hipster's Model M. And I want one.
Being able to remind the Model M peons that their keyboard actually uses a membrane must feel SO GOOD. Too bad about the weird old timey terminal layout tho.
@@Nukle0n There is a model F AT layout. IBM 5170 PC AT
It's one of the most desirable models though, so good luck.
www.modelfkeyboards.com/
I mean, it's not the same, but it's something...
@@rich1051414 You can do better than the F AT as well, though the F AT can be converted to ANSI with some dremeling, etc. There were also F variants for a particular banking terminal that had solid zinc cases. These could easily be configured for ANSI layouts, and Ellipse is manufacturing new reproductions of the F62 and F77 variants of these. I have one of the new F77s and an original F107. Wonderful keyboards. The F XT is unusable if you ask me, even as wonderfully pingy and gigantic as it is.
As to the original comment, the Model M sucks in my opinion. It feels mediocre, even at its best (I prefer even most modern clicky switches) and the construction/durability of the M was very, very poorly designed. Conversely, the F rivals Alps SKCM blue.
@@Nukle0n Model F and M user here - I couldn't care less if one has a membrane, certainly not enough to feel the need to be a dick to Model M users over something very trivial. Arguably a part from 2KRO, it's not like the membrane is obviously there either - if you somehow made a capacitive version of the Model M flipper and put it in a Model F assembly (along with M springs), it'd likely feel identical.
I have a Model F xt myself, replaced all the springs a few months ago with new ones it's amazing :)
Suddenly alt+f4 makes much more sense, if it was implemented around the time this keyboard was in general use.
I set the pip-boy on Fallout:NV to that orange of your monitor, just seemed to fit with the Mojave wasteland
I'm from Greencastle! That's awesome!
That amber display looked really classy.
such a great vid!
Model F is THE keyboard for me! Nothing can compare to this.
You just hear the crispiness through the microphone... and it makes my fingers happy. Pure erotica, this!
They sure built them like tanks back then. For that tear in the rubber casing on the cord maybe try some silicone caulk. That should seal it, and prevent it from getting worse.
Agreed I have several M's and F's. The F is so much better feel and that is saying something with how good the M is.
HO nice!!, I remember seeing that yellow stuff around the letters, always wonder if it was the ink used that did that. Btw the rubbing sound is the floppy itself, it’s rubbing on it’s inner felt, try with a different brand, many of my Memorex floppy sounds like that.
The amber monitor is like a giant 5155 monitor!
I love it!
Keyboard holy grail! It's like a Indiana Jones artifact but keyboard based!
I'd love to hear Chyrosran22's opinion and take on the new old stock too and a comparison with a well loved one!
I just dug out a F XT to restore and sell. Neat.
I like that display.
I keep seeing Project Eden on your shelf. You should review that. It's one of those things I wish I could like more than I actually do.
Are you kidding? Model F is the best layout not even a discussion!
A model F? Probably the only thing i'd trade my Model M for!
Practically ASMR. Good god that sounds delicious.
a little drop of Super Glue would buy some reassurance on that cable... It's amazing, these keyboards were tossed by the millions, now they're collectible...
That’s a monster of a space bar
Being a habitual dismantler of things myself, looking at the back of the keyboard mech, it looks like you just take one screw out and slide the metal backing plate over to the side and lift off, though not having one to try that out on, I can't be sure on that... :\
There's foam between the front and back plates that is compressed during assembly. Getting these apart and back together usually requires at least pliers, sometimes hammers, and sometimes clamps.
I like this.
I like that you prefer to have someone who knows what they are doing to restore the keyboard over you doing it your self when you know you can’t do it justice
I hope some keyboard manufacturers will take heed of your appraisal on the tactile profile of this device.
Seeing the old 5150 often makes me wonder if you're planning to get a 5161 expansion unit at some point. My family had an expander on our PC when I was a kid, adding some extra floppy drives and other things, so I think the system went up to drive letter E:
I'd like to, for sure.
Model F
F of "Fantastic"
I have a model f, and I love it. I'm an Emacs user, so the layout doesn't bother me. I would be really curious to try an AT layout model F, though.
I have keyboard envy.
More or less unrelated comment:
Did you ever try to use a "Magic Eraser" to get the gunk off of 2nd hand parts?
Yep, I've shown my whole cleaning process for these computers in a number of LGR videos! Magic erasers are always step three or four in my routine, but they only do so much for deep stains and I don't want to wear down the paint job.
October 22nd 1984? Just right at my birthday, but 8 years later.
Glad to be back with my favorite blerbs 😂.
I'm also partial to the IBM model M & F keyboards though I always prefered the commercial / industrial grade keyboards (dust covered/ cooking oil/water resistant/corrision resustant & fully sealed/ toughbook-esque options for the Amiga 1200.
Many brands and features, the extra wide full keyboard + numpad w/ that ~20mm long 8 way skinny pole, nipple tipped 'joystick' for factory use.
I'n pretty sure theae keyboards were repurposed Model M / PS2 keyboards though the 15 key simealtaneous press on some (basically 1 for parity error, add 3+ BUS redyndancy it was really an 8-10 keys at once keyboard at a much greater latency.
I wonder why they bothered putting a ground screw into a plastic case...
The bottom plate is metal.
hey clint you can get an almost model m layout on a model f but you have to buy an ibm model f122 and then you have to modify it also you only have to bend the 1 tab on a model f and then tap it tiwh a hammer and it will just slide apart i service these all the time
Have you ever tried the 3D printable Model F replacement feet? They're pretty rare and are known to break, I know a lot of restorers delete broken ones during rebuilds, but this gives the keyboard a pretty uncomfortable angle.
WOW. I just cleaned one of these.
Amber display?! YEAH!!
That ground loop that you taped over shouldn't be taped... It's supposed to ground to the bottom of the case. The tape prevents this. Not sure if this would cause issues and I'm guessing it's just a drain for static build-up on the bottom metal case, but I'd take a look at that maybe!
Love your videos!
About the yellowing, most dye sublimation causes bleeding over time, especially when not used, It might wear off a bit with some use.
Every time you roll out the amber screen I immediately imagine you will have to complete a hacking challenge when you turn it on.
Clicky clack.... clikyclikyclickyclak.... CLAKCLAKCLAK
And it was glorious.
doin the lords work making functional f model keyboards out of random NOS parts in tyool 2020, aw hek yee indeed
@LGR Blerbs, what converter do you use for modern machines for this keyboard? Do you have a link by a chance?
I use a Soarer's converter
www.tinkerboy.xyz/product/tinkerboy-xt-at-usb-converter-with-soarers-converter-firmware/
@@LGRBlerbs Thank you so much!!! Love the content on this channel and the main channel. Keep up the excellent work! :)
"It DOS what it DOS"
- LGR
This video is like soul balm.
How are you liking the unicomp you bought recently, LGR?
Dat 9U spacebar though.
Only 5 years younger than me. Amazing how well they built 'em back then. Nowadays you can pay over £150 for a keyboard and its cheap plastic with flashing lights.
I love old IBM keyboards.
i have a old ibm one before 386sx one in closet used to work lol
Really need to get an F one of these days.
I totally forgot about the feet until you showed them
god damn it now i want one
6:31 this wasn't a good idea - ring connector is supposed to have an electric contact with the backplate.
There is a thread on Deskthority about making a new PCB, flippers, and springs to convert the M into a capacitive buckling spring. You should check it out
BLEEEEEERB!!!! :O
Why don't keyboards have function keys on the left any more? I think that would be great.
Because the Model M set the new standard and it has stayed the standard since then ;)
there are keyboards with such layouts, though it's mostly propriatary "G" keys instead of the function keys
Some still do. Just have to find them.
Unicomp sells a PC122 model with function keys on the left side.
my thoughts exactly. a TKL with F-keys on the left would be the ideal setup for me
Anyone know of any modern keyboards that have a comparable feel to a model f for a reasonable price?
youre like 'its missing feet' and i'm like 'your face is missing feet', and i'm tired and cranky, and it's 8am and my allergies are going NUUUts.
Man, I’m jealous, but not of the keyboard. My family’s first PC compatible knockoff computer had a MAX-12 monitor just like that one. You have it hooked to an MDA card, did you know it’s dual-mode so it’s also directly CGA compatible as well? That’s what we had. PC gaming at 4.77mhz and in 16 shades of amber, w00t!
Heck yeah, gotta love dual frequency TTL monitors
@@LGRBlerbs Hook that turkey up to something like one of those magical multi-mode ATI Graphics Solution cards and a whole universe of monochrome goodness will be at your fingertips!
How long until new old stocks dry out?
So the F stands for Fart ...😁
@10:26 That 5150 is so pretty.
I'm disappointed you didn't type "This. Is. Pure. Sex."
The model F keys actually feel GOOD. It's weird. It feels better than NOT typing. Model M is great, but it's still a negative... 'goodness' :)
I'm incredibly jealous