There should be a distinction between Imaginary labels and Real (functional) labels. Functionality is determined by experimentation and that is the advantage of scientific perception of Reality and appropriate naming of objects. It is the distinction between the mediaeval mind and the modern mind.
In this sought emptiness, what is the status of the pleasures and pains that enable us to survive and reproduce? They seem essential to the exisence of life, yet in opposition to your search for contentment in what is.
it's the chasing and resisting that creates disorder not pleassure and pain in themselves. Tantric budism esp goes into pleassure to see if they are still attached or just allow without any intend. if pleassure happens, let it, if pain happens same so you stand detached unmoved by it
Is this an endless struggle with arising ego-labels, or does it have a definite end, a sea-change? Otherwise, I wonder if Buddhists, in practice, settle for strengthening the labels they like (or are oblivious to) vs the ones that actively trouble them. I'm unconvinced by the idea of a hypothetical 'totally unattached Buddha' who is just an abstract ideal to navigate by, like an unattainable star on the horizon. Can a human really end all attachment? I have interacted with several apparently profound teachers who nevertheless got excited about their preferences and opinions... How are they *fundamentally* different from anyone else? Or is the difference only in degree, not kind?
You can be as attached obliviously as you want. An alcoholic is attached to his bottle for it gives either seeming courage or forgetfulness. But be one of the lucky ones that sees past that attachment and sees with clarity and a life is saved with many that surround him. This is NOT about perfection for that in of itself is what caused the trouble in the first place. Somewhere at some point less teetering is achieved and one can finally breathe again.
There is no end to attachment. The question is, do you realize the nature of the attachment? As for teachers, why would they be any less human than anyone else? There are answers to these challenges, and I suggest you keep digging deeper.
@@Knaeben You are speaking to me like you're assuming a teacher role. Do YOU understand the nature of attachment? And if so, what does that do for you?
@@FrogmortonHotchkissI get the sense that you’re talking about true understanding/realization/embodiment of the principles versus simply bypassing and using the right words. Since we can’t ever know what’s truly in another’s mind, I think that’s why the Buddha taught to always look for the truth within your own mind and life. Others can only guide but never prove for us. I’d like to think I’ve got a pretty good understanding of the nature of attachment, but if my house burned down and everything including my family was lost, what would I do with that situation? Impossible to know unless it happens. And I see my attachment still exists because I don’t want that to happen and the mind tries to bargain/pray/distract from the mere thought. In a less extreme situation, I recently forgot my favorite hoodie and my meditation poncho at the location of a retreat I served and it was really interesting to see what the mind did with that. I could see the attachment and (try to) objectively experience the suffering it caused. I do think there are degrees until one masters it- I don’t know that mastering is possible, I can only know that if I ever achieve for myself (without delusion!!). Mmm, it’s seemingly a bit tricky. Questioning it is good I think. :) I don’t know if that’s helpful at all to you, but that’s kind of how I see it.
There should be a distinction between Imaginary labels and Real (functional) labels. Functionality is determined by experimentation and that is the advantage of scientific perception of Reality and appropriate naming of objects. It is the distinction between the mediaeval mind and the modern mind.
Great Teaching on a great problem in a nutshell. 🙏
Beautiful
Does that go for human label's too? Mum, Dad, brother,sister etc. who knows. Very interesting.
There should be a distinction between Imaginary labels and Real (functional) labels. Functionality is determined by experimentation and that is the advantage of scientific perception of Reality and appropriate naming of objects. It is the distinction between the mediaeval mind and the modern mind.
In this sought emptiness, what is the status of the pleasures and pains that enable us to survive and reproduce? They seem essential to the exisence of life, yet in opposition to your search for contentment in what is.
it's the chasing and resisting that creates disorder not pleassure and pain in themselves. Tantric budism esp goes into pleassure to see if they are still attached or just allow without any intend. if pleassure happens, let it, if pain happens same so you stand detached unmoved by it
What if you rent an apartment so you can have a warm shelter during winter, is that too just a label that's empty of essence/content?
Survival is valuable. But many over our thoughts are not valuable, like perception of hierarchy for example.
@@eli7527 so if you were a slave is the perception of hierarchy an illusion too?
🙏
Is this an endless struggle with arising ego-labels, or does it have a definite end, a sea-change? Otherwise, I wonder if Buddhists, in practice, settle for strengthening the labels they like (or are oblivious to) vs the ones that actively trouble them. I'm unconvinced by the idea of a hypothetical 'totally unattached Buddha' who is just an abstract ideal to navigate by, like an unattainable star on the horizon. Can a human really end all attachment?
I have interacted with several apparently profound teachers who nevertheless got excited about their preferences and opinions... How are they *fundamentally* different from anyone else? Or is the difference only in degree, not kind?
You can be as attached obliviously as you want. An alcoholic is attached to his bottle for it gives either seeming courage or forgetfulness. But be one of the lucky ones that sees past that attachment and sees with clarity and a life is saved with many that surround him. This is NOT about perfection for that in of itself is what caused the trouble in the first place. Somewhere at some point less teetering is achieved and one can finally breathe again.
There is no end to attachment. The question is, do you realize the nature of the attachment? As for teachers, why would they be any less human than anyone else? There are answers to these challenges, and I suggest you keep digging deeper.
@@Knaeben You are speaking to me like you're assuming a teacher role. Do YOU understand the nature of attachment? And if so, what does that do for you?
@@FrogmortonHotchkissI get the sense that you’re talking about true understanding/realization/embodiment of the principles versus simply bypassing and using the right words.
Since we can’t ever know what’s truly in another’s mind, I think that’s why the Buddha taught to always look for the truth within your own mind and life. Others can only guide but never prove for us.
I’d like to think I’ve got a pretty good understanding of the nature of attachment, but if my house burned down and everything including my family was lost, what would I do with that situation? Impossible to know unless it happens. And I see my attachment still exists because I don’t want that to happen and the mind tries to bargain/pray/distract from the mere thought.
In a less extreme situation, I recently forgot my favorite hoodie and my meditation poncho at the location of a retreat I served and it was really interesting to see what the mind did with that. I could see the attachment and (try to) objectively experience the suffering it caused.
I do think there are degrees until one masters it- I don’t know that mastering is possible, I can only know that if I ever achieve for myself (without delusion!!). Mmm, it’s seemingly a bit tricky. Questioning it is good I think. :)
I don’t know if that’s helpful at all to you, but that’s kind of how I see it.
well-fed guy speaking in a rich country about getting nothing... he should do yoga instead... will do him good
There should be a distinction between Imaginary labels and Real (functional) labels. Functionality is determined by experimentation and that is the advantage of scientific perception of Reality and appropriate naming of objects. It is the distinction between the mediaeval mind and the modern mind.