Superheroes not being heroes. Hero in the background while the female character does all the work. Low key gay imagery. Recon established characters as part of the alphabet community.
Has he ever done a soft reboot, like a way u can read it and not need to read 30 years of spawn comics lol, would love to hop on but the issue numbers are beyond daunting
When is the last time in comics commissioner Gordon turned in the bat signal and Batman responded to that ? The Bedrock of a Batman comic , we haven’t seen in years !
Commissioner Gordon: Activate the Bat Signal! Bruce: YABBA DABBA DOO! Let's drive the stone Batmobile courtesy of my two feet. Remember to put the sabretooth cat out for the night, Robin.
That is the crux of the problem. Too many writers have absolutely nothing of interest to write about because they have zero life experiences and do not know how to write complex and fleshed-out characters because they sit alone in their echo chamber and end up writing about themselves. Case in point, I’m a writer, helping other writers on a critique site and it’s amazing how tedious and boring these writers are. They have really great concepts and premises, but they always ignore in favor of tedious nonsense that grounds the pace of their stories to a halt. They have no clue how to write.
Another annoying thing is making low rank villains unrealistically stronger and more important. Armada Waller is one of those characters who keeps appearing in every DC comic now. And somehow the Justice League feared her although she is an average human. STOP MAKING HER LOOK LIKE A HUGH ASS THREAT!
excellent comment, "miles". Even in CW, shows on streaming AMANDA WALLER is everywhere. In Fact, JAMES GUNN is going to feature here in one of his shows and maybe a movie in 2025!
Character desconstruction is my main gripe with modern comics, just look what the X-Men become in the latest years.And always is done in the most lazy and dumb way because modern writers just not even understand your previous characterizations. It's very sad you see the characters that you grow up seeing and reading your books behaving in a very different way in nowadays.
your comment "kanedakent..." is so important. It is THEE reason why I don't always enjoy going to the bigger comic book conventions or the big entertainment mainstream media conventions, that are not strictly comic books. when I go to comic book shows, the middle or small ones, I NEVER see anyone buying a whole bunch of these WOKE comic books.
LGBTQ+ plus stories aren't about superheroes who happen to be gay (or whatever). They're stories about LGBTQ+ people who happen to be superheroes. The "superhero" part needs to come first but in too many stories featuring a "diverse" character it doesn't.
Why are you lying? You’re making it seem like if they made the superhero part come first, and the LGBT part later, you’d enjoy the story. Most of you are homophobic AF and would immediately call the comic WOKE if they even eluded to the fact that a character is gay. Even if they didn’t make being gay the character’s entire personality you’d still scream “woke woke woke”. Just like how if there is a black superhero who doesn’t make being black their personality and didn’t do the anti-white stuff, you’d still call it woke. All superhero stories must be about white straight males, or else y’all won’t accept it.
Yeah I don't think any creators learn from Spider-man. For People wanted to know more about Peter's love life, after they got to know who the character was. They wrote a good character first. That made people want to know more about them. They want to keep skipping building up and crafting a good character, for they want the respect and pay off that legacy characters are given, without putting in any of the effort. Which also given superhero stories are meant to have some action in them. Yeah they are not the best genre for a story that focus purely on romance. Which that genre already exist, the romance genre. Many of these creators need to remember, they are writing a superhero story. Not a romance story.
Easier to understand why they make their subject gay in every panel when you remember they would pull 5 single panels drawn from over 20 years to "prove" their subject was gay. You ain't going to catch them out by pulling a few panels over years to "prove" their subject is straight.
The DESTRUCTION of The PUNISHER because LAW ENFORCEMENT & THE MILITARY were FANS! The fact that Marvel Comics is now ANTI UNITED STATES MILITARY & LAW ENFORCEMENT is DISGUSTING!
They quit writing comics for men like me. Men who like good stories and characters you cared about. Not they make them for themselves. So good luck. I still have all the stories I liked. And they do not get my money.
@@JackSann Not what I said, but seems like an overly dramatic knee-jerk response one would expect from a millennial. If I triggered you by having a differing opinion or making a statement you disagree with, I am so very, very sorry that the world failed you so badly. Read final exit and get inspired.
MARVEL and DC Comicbooks have become very scam-like. And why should a customer still trust them when he is not respected as a person but treated like stupid sheep.
Other then the woke nonsense. My top reason why im so done with modern DC and Marvel is attacking of the fans. I think it's disgusting and they should be ashamed and shouldn't be respected. They should be ashamed to be called "creators."
A character can't offend anyone if they don't actually have any kind of defining personality. Just swap physical characteristics, sexual orientation, and identities for the patented "newer, better, and superior" iteration of an established character for representation of "x" group.
I don't comment a lot but I did on this issue so I'm glad you had a big response and I'm glad you took the time to analyse the results and get back to us with this. Thanks for listening to everyone and respecting our views.
Just Some Guy has been criticizing us lately "Not letting things get better!" and claiming we are the ones canceling ..........this is a list that is a damn good reason we shouldn't give these companies another chance until these people are fired. We are not talking about a Joel Schumacher situation that made one bad film (Batman & Robin) we are talking about a decade of incompetence of bad writing, bad stories, bad directing, bad characters, narcissistic activism, and attacking your audience.
I,m tired of... *How fickle the speculation secondary market is. A book will go up to $25 to $50 for a week or so. And then go back to cover price 5 to 6 weeks later. *Race and Gender Swapping *Horrible writers writing multiple books.
I agree with the event fatigue. I’m finishing up beast world (only bought the Reis issues) and I’m looking at the Bat family interaction and thinking “weren’t yall just trying to shut Bruce down?” When does this take place?
events also play into another issue. Confusing reading order. For it not just read the event book but also read these tie in issues, that might add nothing to the story. Read this random issue of Iron-man or Hulk. Just to understand it all.
Wes! Thanking for mentioning the deconstruction of Batman (my absolute favorite character!) I have noticed of late that they are constantly tearing the character down and making Nightwing (whom I also like)and everyone else "Better than Batman" Geez!!!
Treating fans, customers and retailers like the enemy by the Marvel and DC creators is why I stay away from almost everything that's been released by those publishers during the past decade.
I hated when they changed the barcodes to remove the year and month of publication. At this point I think they purposefully make it so you are confused as far as reading order goes. This might be because they can't write competent stories and are obfuscating that fact by omitting crucial information on the cover.
I’ve been saying for a very long time that both marvel and dc needs to stop rebooting all of there titles back to number one because frankly this thinking still makes no sense to me whatsoever at least in my opinion.
Which just makes things confusing for new people. Which number one should they read? This number one, that number one? It seems like they want people to go over to manga with a easy starting point, of chapter one of vol one.
I’ve now got to the point that if comic, tv shows, movie and video games have the D.C comics and Marvel comic brand I won’t touch it or give it the time of day
Holy shit! Wow, definitely did NOT expect to be the guy that got his comment read. I appreciate the nod! It feels like a badge of honor LOL. It feels almost vindicating to have my voice be heard, so thank you for that! I could go on a super long-winded rant about comics and characters, and my issues with the current climate, but I'll spare you the gory details. At least for now.... Needless to say, I plan on sticking around this channel for a long time. Thanks, again!
The fact that deconstruction has been done so often and so negatively that people hate the concept. It used to mean to look at the bits and pieces that go together to make up the character. Their idea of deconstruction is more accurately described as "demolition". At this point, I don't want or value their examination.
The variant cover having nothing to do with the interior did it for me with Marvel. I was completely out of phase with Iron Man so I picked up a western themed variant thinking he had traveled back in time or something, only to be hit with an issue entirely dedicated to setting up R*scue. As minor as it sounds, I'll never forgive Marvel for that.
Having an inferior interior artist is one of the BIGGEST reasons I stopped buying comics. I am big on the art. It is the biggest consideration for me when I buy a comic. In the late 90s and early 00s, getting big artists to do covers with shoddy interior art became pervasive. I hated it. Also... I think a big part of Marvel's downfall was when Quesada became EIC and abandoned the Comics Code Authority. Not that I love the CCA, but apparently the CCA restraints harbored creativity. After the CCA was abandoned, and X-Men and Spider-Man movies got big, it ushered in the Age of Edge. Books were made to be more grounded, edgy, adult, and/or deliberately ugly. Art started looking indie, photoshoppy, traced, and overly colored/rendered. There was still some good writing here and there, and an occasional book with great interior art... but superhero books were already being deconstructed. And then, in the 2010s, the woke shiz just made everything complete trash.
It's like a fast food restaurant changing all their meat patties to vegan patties even though it pisses off 95.5 % of the customers but it's more important to piss them off than to make them happy for their ideology
The one thing that really finished me with comics is all the mini series and short runs, reboots. Manga with their long, linear stories is far more interesting to me.
My comment was featured! Thank you, Wes. Big fan, of your content. Surreal moment. But yes, over and over, again, and again, they go in, with the mission statement, the admitted "not-so-secret gay agenda", meaning let's scrub every bit of characterization away, and replace it with a gay love story, and dare anyone to disparage it. All it's resulted in is low sales and worse, lower interest, in the characters, themselves, damaging future business. If someone comes along, and does a Crisis reset, would anyone read it? The damage is done, and they either don't see it, or act like they don't see it, for some reason.
Spurrier's Flash (allegedly) being rebooted after 10 issues is downstream of taking fan-favorite Jeremy Adams off the title and totally changing the book's tone. Good luck figuring out what to do with that character now, DC
Comics are also pretty expensive now too. Great list, Wes. Mirrors my sentiments exactly. Plus backup features are likewise superfluous. The list continues, ha!
Excellent work here, Wes. It's somewhat comforting to know all the grievances I have about modern comics are shared by so many others. That said, this should be compiled as an anti-manifesto to the obvious agenda of the big two. If they want to recapture the hearts and minds of what was once the staunchest fan base on earth, they should bloody well swallow their pride (pun unintended) and listen to this list, and moreso, act upon it. Cheers mate, thanks for the insight into what we are all thinking. Like I said, its comforting to know it's not just me being belligerent and crazy.
There are several good points made here. The reboot is something that is now become a chicken and the egg problem. The comic companies give you the #1 cause they get the sales bump, enough people buy them at #1, and they get their fresh start without having the heavy load of lifting sales at a "#15" for example. The flip side is that the numbers, unless its a solid hit, eventually come back down to earth and the publisher is left with the same problem again. So they look at it and say "Hey if we don't do this you want buy that new storyline we want to start", nor do they want to take the heavy short term hit and see a bottoming on sales before possibly seeing the series turn and go up. That's a problem with the way the industry works as you are always 2 months behind on your sales numbers. Peter David's Supergirl long ago would have survived and gone past issue #80, but because they could only see the sales numbers on the issues prior to say issue #78 the editor and publisher didn't see the sales increase coming with the next 2 issues and canceled the series. Nobody wants to take the money promote the shit out of a fresh start at a odd number issue, and take the chance it won't do well. The safe bet is the #1...and despite what I say, the fans, etc the companies are convinced by their sales numbers they have to do this. Which would mean the only way to fix it is for everyone to not buy that new #1 issue...but its #1 and its the ground floor. So how do you tell that to somebody new just coming in? As to "bait and switch" on covers this has been going on in the comic industry for DECADES. Anyone thinks this is new has no idea of history. Go look at books from the 50's , 60's, 70's, 80's , 90's , etc they all have this issue to some degree or another. The simple fact is the cover can sell the book. What is different now is that the industry has allowed for the creation of a whole host of artists who do nothing but that and they are some of the best artists out there. But they don't need to do interiors cause they never want for work cause they are being thrown cover work left and right. There are FIVE guys out there I would kill for just to get them to do ONE full issue of something that you can leave on the rack and just sell forever. But this is not a new problem. Just with the modern day it's easier to notice. As rest...yeah agree in one way or another. WTF20.
I don’t understand why they don’t just bring back the romance comics and move all of that there. The mantle swaps are definitely a killer of a title for me. I was reading the current run of Ghost Rider, seen it was headed towards a mantle swap and dropped it. I’d buy anything new it’s usually manga or indie
Lately, when I read a decent comic book: I'm not sure if the book is really that good or that everything else has been so bad that an average book now seems amazing.
I am tired of fan favourite characters like Wally West being treated like trash. Half my favourite comic book character are from DC, and at one point or another, DC keeps screwing them over. Just look at what they did to Tim Drake and Cassandra Cain. And do not get me started on what Tom King did to Wally.
thinking that only Asians should do martial arts is like thinking only Black people should rap. No white rappers, no Eminem. That's who Iron Fist is, he's someone who was raised in another ethnicity's society and absorbed their culture as his own. Iron Fist is Eminem.
Wes. Great article, and a big "AMEN" to your survey. I would love to see an article discussing your favorite current comic writers. If I missed something you've already done, would love a link to it. Thanks!
I really think marvel and DC need new ownership and a clean break from the last 20 years of stories. Id do it in the mos insulting way possible to all these current "creators" by pulling a Poochie on them. "These stories never happened and died on the way back tontheir planet, and theyre never coming back". And never, ever, for any reason reprint them. No residuals, no nostalgia, start fresh with creators like Chuck Dixon or John Byrne.
Just wanted to add - ... And all the crap that we see in comics. even the good stuff that is great...is not worth it....WHEN YOU ARE PAYING 5-6$ per comic book!
I watched that one video and was going to comment but decided I didn’t need to because I was seeing people saying the same things I was going to. Maybe I should have commented anyway.😅 I will say though that before I was thinking about Alan Scott and his wife and kids and all that messed up stuff. I When I was sitting there I realized I couldn’t count the number of times a writer has screwed up a character and their relationships. Whether it be romantic like Alan Scott & his wife (or wives?) to Golden Glider & The Top. To non romantic relationships like Raven and Nightwing and Starfire (Both were sexually assaulted. One by accident and the other by Dark Raven). To Batman and his kids. It’s almost like they’re literally saying people in the hero/villain world can never have any relationship of any kind. That’s depressing. Anyway comics are exhausting and not worth the money you pay for at this point.🧐
Back issues and reprints are the way to go! Tom King's Batman "wedding" issue was the end of pull lists for me. My Local Comic store is more into card games so I buy online.
3:53 - the point of deconstruction in the best terms is building back up in a better way. But they never do that. They tear the character apart and just leave them like that. Then when someone else cares and builds them back up, all it takes is a cheap hack to tear the character apart again. The writer thinks they’re being clever when they are only doing it for attention. And when they do get it, they complain that “the fans were reading it wrong” of “toxic fandom.” What is it going to take to get these writers to sit down for some humble pie since, ironically, a lot of them do more about heroes eating food then being heroes.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! Marvel needs to understand one thing and one thing only, regardless whether they disagree with the fans doesn't matter. Just give the fans what they want, no matter if you agree or not otherwize people stop reading comics and you go out of business! Two examples, they should not do two things that fans will quit buying their books because a writer feels they don't like what fans say or feel they like. If they kill Mary Jane, the majority of Marvel fans will switch to DC or stop reading altogether! Rumors has it they were planning to kill off Rogue after she tries to have children with Gambit. If they do that I'm finished with Marvel, however if they keep Rogue alive and her and Gambit call it quits without children that's cool with me! I don't like Gambit because he reminds me of some locals in my town who steal to get what they desire and they leech off others all their lives! Besides I had a premonition of Rogue becoming truly iconic without Gambit hanging around anymore. She's an Avenger now and my idea is for a mutant/ non-mutant relationships. This ends prejudice in comics as well as inspiring all readers young and old to put aside differences in race! According to that vision I experienced in 1980, I envisioned Rogue and Wonder Man, the new Superman/ Wonder Woman of comics, only that recently these two have broken barriers Superman and Wonder Woman failed to break through being DC, Marvel and other comics continuity never took that leap of faith, put their most iconic heroes up as cameo appearances outside their usual comics worlds! I've seen Rogue and wonder Man in more cameo guest appearances than even the cosmology hierarchies of DC and Marvel! It seems these two are now carrying Marvel on their backs and the x-men and Avengers are following after these two by poping up in thse outer planes of the tiering system and fictional verses!
I stopped bothering with DC Comics once future state or whatever the the final name of it was started because i didn't want to see things like the original conner Kent losing the wife and daughter on gemworld that he gained after new52 rebirth and the story of how that came to pass!!!
Remember when we got a deconstruction of Captain America by him bashing the American dream while established captain America is a title everybody can self identify as. Or coming to terms that his shield was racist in origins
Variant covers are on every book. Once it was something special, now its there to pump up sales. I can't wait till DEI dies in everything. Its everywhere. All anyone wants is good stories and good art.
I haven't bought anything from Marvel or DC for several years since i got tired of their nonsense. The stories had been lame for several years and they were starting to bring in gay crap. I have moved on to manga and have never looked back.
Hollywood. It's all Hollywood. Events make great 'movies' because they're 'complete' but Comics are best for long form serial storytelling. The Slice of Life stuff is easy to convert to a Netflix production, very little action, so very little stunt work and money spent. Most of the people who work on Comics are former and failed Hollywood. Deconstruction is what Alan Moore did with Watchmen and Hollywood has grabbed onto it, and ran it into the ground. The DEI/ESG is pure Hollywood, there's a saying inside 'Male and Pale is Stale' this mantra permeates every level of every entertainment they control. Reboots and Remakes have been the main money maker for Hollywood since the 1990s, ever since they discovered people didn't want new IPs, just more of the same. And they made BANK until the Reboots changed TOO MUCH. And Spider-Man has always beaten Bats black and blue out of his costume. Spider-Man has always been the most popular, still is.
I must say....I am IMPRESSED with the very good insight and comments I am reading here, in the category of "Top Comments" of this video comments section. I feel like I am around "my own people" and common ground. i am tired of these modern , liberal progressive themes in comic books. They have ruined so many heroes and villains in DC and in Marvel.
That never happened to Batman, because I never read that arc, and punisher is still a bad ass, because I refuse to read the New arc, because after reading the first issue, I knew what was up. I find myself reading back issues, revisiting great stories, or reading independent comics. Folks, we are not subjected to whatever they give us, we can choose Simply just not to read it. God blessed the few good writers that are still out there holding the torch.
Regardless of manga x comics conversation, flagship comics from 2 top just are: crappy with crappy writing, not on the genre they are supposed to be, disrespect legacy, not on time, reboots with no continuity, expensive, full of fomo tactics, creators and staff are just jackasses who don't care about their customer base, owned by souless corporations, and on and on. Is there any positive? I rather read a Chick Tract.
That is another pet peve that takes away from the comics, stop using race as a excuse to make a hero! When I see Wonder Man, I don't see race, I , seeing Wonder Man, and I no longer use race, but now it's just a character with pale or dark skin! Even so it does not make a difference a hero is a hero, I look to character!
Thundercats 1 has 93 variants Lilo and Stitch 1 has 39 variants. How's that for variant cover overload? Only reason I didn't continue buying Flash or even Green Arrow and Green Lantern (not that Alan Scott trash) is because of money. I actually enjoyed the first issues in those series but the sheer AMOUNT of comics out there are killing my wallet and making it very hard to keep up with everything. Unfortunately something had to be dropped.
The prices are what’s killing me. 20 years ago you could get 20 comics for 60 bucks. Nowadays you get 20 comics you’re paying almost 120 bux! Marvel and Dc always are trying to get in new readers especially kids but what kid is going to pay all that money to collect Superman or spider man (which are both 5 bux) it’s utter insanity that the cost of a single comic is what a paperback short story collection toon cost in 1997. Don’t even get me started on the backups. About 99% of the backups are garbage. I’m also done with events. Since 2022 we have had lazarus planet, knight terrors and beast world all with a shit ton of books. And I’m a guy that loved events and always bought peripheral books in the story… but I’m done. Unless it’s something really special then I’m not getting event books ever again.
$120 That is a nice new fancy ominbus price which are like about 1000+ pages. 20 comics is what about 500 pages? Not a great deal really. Pre-owened more bang for the bucks. In total got 15 volumes of GL Rebirth, Blackest Night, Brightest day for less than that. Funny thing about our kids they are buying stuff around the comics. The films, the figures, the merch, the games, but not the comics. Well one does buy some vs Predator stuff comics maybe some Flash/Hulk, but nothing like a a serious time/money investment like a fan.
It’s even worse when the event turns out to be a stinker. “So after forty-eight issues, and however long I’ve been doing this video, it was ALLLL for NOTHING!”- Linkara on the DC Comics event Future’s End
I am with you all the way, "cicolasnage...". Most of the regular back issue boxes contain TONS of garbage modern liberal sex agenda stories or bad cover art. If I want good comic books, I have TO ASK for the boxes in the backroom!
The prices are a killer. new children have been ROBBED of having a good comic book hero experience. Sometimes, when I talk with younger kids/fans of comic books, I will simply GIVE THEM a couple of older bronze age comics for free...JUST SO they can read and understand what they have missed over the years and I can see the joy and happiness in their face. Some of them don't know...don't know that there used to be a time when art and story was great in comic books.
You literally have infinite universes. If you want a lesbian, Asian, Wolverine, then make her from Earth 664645 and just tell the story in a way that isn't replacing 616 Wolverine. This is literally a business where you can have your cake and eat it too, but "we can't do that because we have to sanitize certain characters." If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. Also, if 664645 Wolverine doesn't sell, don't badmouth the fans and distributors. Just accept that it didn't sell and move on.
Superheroes not being heroes. Hero in the background while the female character does all the work. Low key gay imagery. Recon established characters as part of the alphabet community.
*Low key* gay imagery?
You need an update on your glasses prescription?
Agreed. This is what the Big 2 have been doing slowly over the years😅
Kudos to Todd McFarlane for NOT rebooting Spawn, by the way.
Has he ever done a soft reboot, like a way u can read it and not need to read 30 years of spawn comics lol, would love to hop on but the issue numbers are beyond daunting
297 is a good jumping on point. 298/99 basically is a recap of everything that’s happened so far.
Spawn was already African-American.
When is the last time in comics commissioner Gordon turned in the bat signal and Batman responded to that ? The Bedrock of a Batman comic , we haven’t seen in years !
I don't even know what happens with Gordon in the comics now 😂
Commissioner Gordon: Activate the Bat Signal!
Bruce: YABBA DABBA DOO! Let's drive the stone Batmobile courtesy of my two feet. Remember to put the sabretooth cat out for the night, Robin.
They have moved on from it
@SigmaComicsmost likely true...😔
Writers with no life experience telling others how they should live. It's unbelievable how comics have fallen over the last few years.
Exactly correct! Plus how can they give advice when those same artist/writers are asking for money from their fans to help pay bills on go fund me lol
That is the crux of the problem. Too many writers have absolutely nothing of interest to write about because they have zero life experiences and do not know how to write complex and fleshed-out characters because they sit alone in their echo chamber and end up writing about themselves.
Case in point, I’m a writer, helping other writers on a critique site and it’s amazing how tedious and boring these writers are. They have really great concepts and premises, but they always ignore in favor of tedious nonsense that grounds the pace of their stories to a halt. They have no clue how to write.
Another annoying thing is making low rank villains unrealistically stronger and more important. Armada Waller is one of those characters who keeps appearing in every DC comic now. And somehow the Justice League feared her although she is an average human. STOP MAKING HER LOOK LIKE A HUGH ASS THREAT!
Because she represents the government and is the BIG BAD currently going forward
excellent comment, "miles". Even in CW, shows on streaming AMANDA WALLER is everywhere. In Fact, JAMES GUNN is going to feature here in one of his shows and maybe a movie in 2025!
Don't you know? NO ONE MESSES WITH 'THE WALL' !
ugh!@@VarjoPira
It was funny the first time. Apparently that 'WALL' is now the Source Wall@@lukeyznaga7627
Character desconstruction is my main gripe with modern comics, just look what the X-Men become in the latest years.And always is done in the most lazy and dumb way because modern writers just not even understand your previous characterizations. It's very sad you see the characters that you grow up seeing and reading your books behaving in a very different way in nowadays.
Comics is like that favorite cousin you loved to hang out with as a kid that grew up to become a crackhead
Deadpool: I tried crack, but nothing happened.
your comment "kanedakent..." is so important. It is THEE reason why I don't always enjoy going to the bigger comic book conventions or the big entertainment mainstream media conventions, that are not strictly comic books. when I go to comic book shows, the middle or small ones, I NEVER see anyone buying a whole bunch of these WOKE comic books.
I'm of the opinion that any modern Punisher comic not written by Ennis is non-canon.
Ennis ruined the Punisher that he always was a psycho since your days in Nam.
Garth recently did an indie 'The Ribbon Queen' he went full DEI, it's a shameful thing really
@@Kevin.kevin_kevin it wasss. It was boring & annoying. it also was my first story with him but I will go back to read his better work.
@hectorgutierrez702 After issue 6 I was gonna give it one more chance and then issue 7 did it again and I don't even want to finish the run anymore
@@Kevin.kevin_kevinWell, that's unfortunate.
LGBTQ+ plus stories aren't about superheroes who happen to be gay (or whatever). They're stories about LGBTQ+ people who happen to be superheroes. The "superhero" part needs to come first but in too many stories featuring a "diverse" character it doesn't.
Yes, they should all go write romance comics and leave my superheroes alone!
Why are you lying? You’re making it seem like if they made the superhero part come first, and the LGBT part later, you’d enjoy the story. Most of you are homophobic AF and would immediately call the comic WOKE if they even eluded to the fact that a character is gay. Even if they didn’t make being gay the character’s entire personality you’d still scream “woke woke woke”.
Just like how if there is a black superhero who doesn’t make being black their personality and didn’t do the anti-white stuff, you’d still call it woke. All superhero stories must be about white straight males, or else y’all won’t accept it.
The problem is they haven't hired anyone smart enough to write a superhero story in the first place.
Yeah I don't think any creators learn from Spider-man. For People wanted to know more about Peter's love life, after they got to know who the character was. They wrote a good character first. That made people want to know more about them. They want to keep skipping building up and crafting a good character, for they want the respect and pay off that legacy characters are given, without putting in any of the effort. Which also given superhero stories are meant to have some action in them. Yeah they are not the best genre for a story that focus purely on romance. Which that genre already exist, the romance genre. Many of these creators need to remember, they are writing a superhero story. Not a romance story.
Masterfully put
Easier to understand why they make their subject gay in every panel when you remember they would pull 5 single panels drawn from over 20 years to "prove" their subject was gay. You ain't going to catch them out by pulling a few panels over years to "prove" their subject is straight.
The DESTRUCTION of
The PUNISHER because LAW ENFORCEMENT & THE MILITARY were FANS!
The fact that Marvel Comics is now ANTI UNITED STATES MILITARY & LAW ENFORCEMENT is DISGUSTING!
They did the same thing to original Vigilante in the 80's
They quit writing comics for men like me. Men who like good stories and characters you cared about. Not they make them for themselves. So good luck. I still have all the stories I liked. And they do not get my money.
Damn right! we should seperate men and women comics!
@@JackSann Not what I said, but seems like an overly dramatic knee-jerk response one would expect from a millennial. If I triggered you by having a differing opinion or making a statement you disagree with, I am so very, very sorry that the world failed you so badly. Read final exit and get inspired.
@@poubelle_blanche well there’s nothing wrong with knowing who’s your audience
@@JackSann That's why manga is successful. It understands that each genre has a different audience and that pandering to the readers is a good thing.
I can sum this all up in two points. People are tired of 1)character assassinations and 2) getting ripped off.
MARVEL and DC Comicbooks have become very scam-like. And why should a customer still trust them when he is not respected as a person but treated like stupid sheep.
Other then the woke nonsense. My top reason why im so done with modern DC and Marvel is attacking of the fans. I think it's disgusting and they should be ashamed and shouldn't be respected. They should be ashamed to be called "creators."
A character can't offend anyone if they don't actually have any kind of defining personality. Just swap physical characteristics, sexual orientation, and identities for the patented "newer, better, and superior" iteration of an established character for representation of "x" group.
I don't comment a lot but I did on this issue so I'm glad you had a big response and I'm glad you took the time to analyse the results and get back to us with this. Thanks for listening to everyone and respecting our views.
The feedback was awesome. Very interesting putting this all together. Hope DC & Marvel are listening.
@@Wes_From_TCyou and I know VERY well they WON'T!
Just Some Guy has been criticizing us lately "Not letting things get better!" and claiming we are the ones canceling ..........this is a list that is a damn good reason we shouldn't give these companies another chance until these people are fired. We are not talking about a Joel Schumacher situation that made one bad film (Batman & Robin) we are talking about a decade of incompetence of bad writing, bad stories, bad directing, bad characters, narcissistic activism, and attacking your audience.
I,m tired of...
*How fickle the speculation secondary market is. A book will go up to $25 to $50 for a week or so. And then go back to cover price 5 to 6 weeks later.
*Race and Gender Swapping
*Horrible writers writing multiple books.
I agree with the event fatigue. I’m finishing up beast world (only bought the Reis issues) and I’m looking at the Bat family interaction and thinking “weren’t yall just trying to shut Bruce down?” When does this take place?
events also play into another issue. Confusing reading order. For it not just read the event book but also read these tie in issues, that might add nothing to the story. Read this random issue of Iron-man or Hulk. Just to understand it all.
Wes! Thanking for mentioning the deconstruction of Batman (my absolute favorite character!) I have noticed of late that they are constantly tearing the character down and making Nightwing (whom I also like)and everyone else "Better than Batman"
Geez!!!
Treating fans, customers and retailers like the enemy by the Marvel and DC creators is why I stay away from almost everything that's been released by those publishers during the past decade.
Past TWO decades.
I hated when they changed the barcodes to remove the year and month of publication. At this point I think they purposefully make it so you are confused as far as reading order goes. This might be because they can't write competent stories and are obfuscating that fact by omitting crucial information on the cover.
You can thank Bendis for introducing desconstruction and spreading it everywhere he went. Like a cockroach plague.
Don't matter if Shakespeare does the writing and Leonardo da vinci does the art,if the story is crap its not worth buying.nuff said.
Companies, and not just in comics, need to stop waging war against the consumer.
I’ve been saying for a very long time that both marvel and dc needs to stop rebooting all of there titles back to number one because frankly this thinking still makes no sense to me whatsoever at least in my opinion.
Which just makes things confusing for new people. Which number one should they read? This number one, that number one? It seems like they want people to go over to manga with a easy starting point, of chapter one of vol one.
@@tacticianAlexandra agreed and you're right about that
The 90s were bad because they kept restarting comics for the speculators
@@conradhauser17 indeed and you’re right about that
Maybe one more reboot, retcon all the crap
I’ve now got to the point that if comic, tv shows, movie and video games have the D.C comics and Marvel comic brand I won’t touch it or give it the time of day
There’s so many complaints and all of them true. Plus don’t forget the high cost for 22 pages of nothing.
Holy shit! Wow, definitely did NOT expect to be the guy that got his comment read. I appreciate the nod! It feels like a badge of honor LOL. It feels almost vindicating to have my voice be heard, so thank you for that! I could go on a super long-winded rant about comics and characters, and my issues with the current climate, but I'll spare you the gory details. At least for now.... Needless to say, I plan on sticking around this channel for a long time. Thanks, again!
Thanks for speaking out! 👊
The fact that deconstruction has been done so often and so negatively that people hate the concept. It used to mean to look at the bits and pieces that go together to make up the character.
Their idea of deconstruction is more accurately described as "demolition".
At this point, I don't want or value their examination.
The variant cover having nothing to do with the interior did it for me with Marvel.
I was completely out of phase with Iron Man so I picked up a western themed variant thinking he had traveled back in time or something, only to be hit with an issue entirely dedicated to setting up R*scue. As minor as it sounds, I'll never forgive Marvel for that.
Having an inferior interior artist is one of the BIGGEST reasons I stopped buying comics.
I am big on the art. It is the biggest consideration for me when I buy a comic. In the late 90s and early 00s, getting big artists to do covers with shoddy interior art became pervasive. I hated it.
Also... I think a big part of Marvel's downfall was when Quesada became EIC and abandoned the Comics Code Authority. Not that I love the CCA, but apparently the CCA restraints harbored creativity.
After the CCA was abandoned, and X-Men and Spider-Man movies got big, it ushered in the Age of Edge. Books were made to be more grounded, edgy, adult, and/or deliberately ugly. Art started looking indie, photoshoppy, traced, and overly colored/rendered. There was still some good writing here and there, and an occasional book with great interior art... but superhero books were already being deconstructed. And then, in the 2010s, the woke shiz just made everything complete trash.
It's like a fast food restaurant changing all their meat patties to vegan patties even though it pisses off 95.5 % of the customers but it's more important to piss them off than to make them happy for their ideology
The one thing that really finished me with comics is all the mini series and short runs, reboots. Manga with their long, linear stories is far more interesting to me.
You made my day! Love the list, love the channel, love what you're doing!
Awesome! Thank you!
"Don't judge a book by it's cover."
Comic buyers - 'OMG that cover is awesome I have to buy it!' Checks actual inside artwork it's delivered... "WTF!"
My comment was featured! Thank you, Wes. Big fan, of your content. Surreal moment.
But yes, over and over, again, and again, they go in, with the mission statement, the admitted "not-so-secret gay agenda", meaning let's scrub every bit of characterization away, and replace it with a gay love story, and dare anyone to disparage it. All it's resulted in is low sales and worse, lower interest, in the characters, themselves, damaging future business. If someone comes along, and does a Crisis reset, would anyone read it? The damage is done, and they either don't see it, or act like they don't see it, for some reason.
Can the modern writers at Marvel/DC write an ongoing series with no crossovers at all and run over 100 issues?
Well, there's always DC's kids line with Scooby-Doo at 100+ and Looney Tunes at 200+. I know, not the answer you were looking for.
Marvel: "The best we can give you is 50 issues and quarterly crossovers"
Spurrier's Flash (allegedly) being rebooted after 10 issues is downstream of taking fan-favorite Jeremy Adams off the title and totally changing the book's tone. Good luck figuring out what to do with that character now, DC
Not surprised : It's a trend that happened with Spurrier's last two Nightcrawler runs throughout the Krakoa era.
Comics are also pretty expensive now too. Great list, Wes. Mirrors my sentiments exactly. Plus backup features are likewise superfluous. The list continues, ha!
Very true!
Excellent work here, Wes. It's somewhat comforting to know all the grievances I have about modern comics are shared by so many others. That said, this should be compiled as an anti-manifesto to the obvious agenda of the big two. If they want to recapture the hearts and minds of what was once the staunchest fan base on earth, they should bloody well swallow their pride (pun unintended) and listen to this list, and moreso, act upon it. Cheers mate, thanks for the insight into what we are all thinking. Like I said, its comforting to know it's not just me being belligerent and crazy.
There are several good points made here. The reboot is something that is now become a chicken and the egg problem. The comic companies give you the #1 cause they get the sales bump, enough people buy them at #1, and they get their fresh start without having the heavy load of lifting sales at a "#15" for example. The flip side is that the numbers, unless its a solid hit, eventually come back down to earth and the publisher is left with the same problem again. So they look at it and say "Hey if we don't do this you want buy that new storyline we want to start", nor do they want to take the heavy short term hit and see a bottoming on sales before possibly seeing the series turn and go up. That's a problem with the way the industry works as you are always 2 months behind on your sales numbers. Peter David's Supergirl long ago would have survived and gone past issue #80, but because they could only see the sales numbers on the issues prior to say issue #78 the editor and publisher didn't see the sales increase coming with the next 2 issues and canceled the series. Nobody wants to take the money promote the shit out of a fresh start at a odd number issue, and take the chance it won't do well. The safe bet is the #1...and despite what I say, the fans, etc the companies are convinced by their sales numbers they have to do this. Which would mean the only way to fix it is for everyone to not buy that new #1 issue...but its #1 and its the ground floor. So how do you tell that to somebody new just coming in? As to "bait and switch" on covers this has been going on in the comic industry for DECADES. Anyone thinks this is new has no idea of history. Go look at books from the 50's , 60's, 70's, 80's , 90's , etc they all have this issue to some degree or another. The simple fact is the cover can sell the book. What is different now is that the industry has allowed for the creation of a whole host of artists who do nothing but that and they are some of the best artists out there. But they don't need to do interiors cause they never want for work cause they are being thrown cover work left and right. There are FIVE guys out there I would kill for just to get them to do ONE full issue of something that you can leave on the rack and just sell forever. But this is not a new problem. Just with the modern day it's easier to notice. As rest...yeah agree in one way or another. WTF20.
Thank you for following up on this topic! Really appreciate your interaction with the community!
My pleasure!
Comic died when it went main stream and the death of Geek culture. Am reading 80s comics and Europe comic.
I don’t understand why they don’t just bring back the romance comics and move all of that there. The mantle swaps are definitely a killer of a title for me. I was reading the current run of Ghost Rider, seen it was headed towards a mantle swap and dropped it. I’d buy anything new it’s usually manga or indie
Lately, when I read a decent comic book: I'm not sure if the book is really that good or that everything else has been so bad that an average book now seems amazing.
Is Marvel really worse at events than DC? I feel like DC has really gone nuts with them lately even more than Marvel
I'd say BOTH of them, but DC is the one who is far worse
I am tired of fan favourite characters like Wally West being treated like trash. Half my favourite comic book character are from DC, and at one point or another, DC keeps screwing them over. Just look at what they did to Tim Drake and Cassandra Cain. And do not get me started on what Tom King did to Wally.
Wide disparity in cover art and inner art is by far one of the most frustrating things to me.
I did a quick count and came up with 14 Hulk series'. I didn't count mini series', Cho Hulk series or the Magazine series. The is rediculous.
It’s not what the author thinks. It’s what the author wants others to believe he thinks. It’s all performative.
This is why comics don’t exist to me after the year 2000.
Great video. I love seeing a compiled list of what the community has to say.
Glad you enjoyed!
Recognize that comics are now loss leaders for the corporations that own the IP. Go from there.
thinking that only Asians should do martial arts is like thinking only Black people should rap. No white rappers, no Eminem. That's who Iron Fist is, he's someone who was raised in another ethnicity's society and absorbed their culture as his own. Iron Fist is Eminem.
Wes. Great article, and a big "AMEN" to your survey. I would love to see an article discussing your favorite current comic writers. If I missed something you've already done, would love a link to it. Thanks!
100 covers of Thundercats, totally necessary, not.
Please do a video on the characters that are ruining DC and Marvel
Yes yes. Yes. !!! All these obvious reasons. Marvel and DC see , these and understand these things they just don’t care.
Marvel and DC suck
Generally speaking....true.
And have for decades.
Why are people finally realizing that?
Stop placing gay sheet into comics! Comics are NOT about sexuality they’re about super heroes
I really think marvel and DC need new ownership and a clean break from the last 20 years of stories. Id do it in the mos insulting way possible to all these current "creators" by pulling a Poochie on them. "These stories never happened and died on the way back tontheir planet, and theyre never coming back". And never, ever, for any reason reprint them. No residuals, no nostalgia, start fresh with creators like Chuck Dixon or John Byrne.
Great video for all these topics.
The Shadow should be next. Change his race to Swedish. I think the Swedes are underrepresented.
For me turning characters who were not super heroes into super heroes. Not every character need to go out to the street and fight crime.
I was getting Moon Knight. I'm not getting Vengeance of Moon Knight.
Everyone needs to vote with their wallet.
Yes as a flaming bundle of sticks for kindling, i absolutely agree w/all the complaints💯%
Just wanted to add - ... And all the crap that we see in comics. even the good stuff that is great...is not worth it....WHEN YOU ARE PAYING 5-6$ per comic book!
Punisher comment I can also relate. I have the all the X-23 series including NYX but I stopped when they turn her to wolverine.
I watched that one video and was going to comment but decided I didn’t need to because I was seeing people saying the same things I was going to. Maybe I should have commented anyway.😅
I will say though that before I was thinking about Alan Scott and his wife and kids and all that messed up stuff. I When I was sitting there I realized I couldn’t count the number of times a writer has screwed up a character and their relationships.
Whether it be romantic like Alan Scott & his wife (or wives?) to Golden Glider & The Top.
To non romantic relationships like Raven and Nightwing and Starfire (Both were sexually assaulted. One by accident and the other by Dark Raven). To Batman and his kids.
It’s almost like they’re literally saying people in the hero/villain world can never have any relationship of any kind. That’s depressing.
Anyway comics are exhausting and not worth the money you pay for at this point.🧐
Great vid!
Back issues and reprints are the way to go! Tom King's Batman "wedding" issue was the end of pull lists for me. My Local Comic store is more into card games so I buy online.
Events are a major problem. Some times there are three events going on at the same time.
DEI writers is just how Marvel and DC brought back segregation!
3:53 - the point of deconstruction in the best terms is building back up in a better way. But they never do that. They tear the character apart and just leave them like that. Then when someone else cares and builds them back up, all it takes is a cheap hack to tear the character apart again. The writer thinks they’re being clever when they are only doing it for attention. And when they do get it, they complain that “the fans were reading it wrong” of “toxic fandom.” What is it going to take to get these writers to sit down for some humble pie since, ironically, a lot of them do more about heroes eating food then being heroes.
Comic books have fallen. Video games have fallen. Now, anime has fallen. They finally crossed the last line. We have lost.
Not yet. Stella Blade still gives us hope
It's not us. It's not we have lost. They have lost us. They lost. We didn't make the stuff they did. They the lost customers.
@@xdomeman I guess.
@@PrivateCitizen84 Yes, that is true. We didn't stray from the path. The path lost us.
@@incubustimelord5947 Too right mate.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! Marvel needs to understand one thing and one thing only, regardless whether they disagree with the fans doesn't matter. Just give the fans what they want, no matter if you agree or not otherwize people stop reading comics and you go out of business! Two examples, they should not do two things that fans will quit buying their books because a writer feels they don't like what fans say or feel they like. If they kill Mary Jane, the majority of Marvel fans will switch to DC or stop reading altogether! Rumors has it they were planning to kill off Rogue after she tries to have children with Gambit. If they do that I'm finished with Marvel, however if they keep Rogue alive and her and Gambit call it quits without children that's cool with me! I don't like Gambit because he reminds me of some locals in my town who steal to get what they desire and they leech off others all their lives! Besides I had a premonition of Rogue becoming truly iconic without Gambit hanging around anymore. She's an Avenger now and my idea is for a mutant/ non-mutant relationships. This ends prejudice in comics as well as inspiring all readers young and old to put aside differences in race! According to that vision I experienced in 1980, I envisioned Rogue and Wonder Man, the new Superman/ Wonder Woman of comics, only that recently these two have broken barriers Superman and Wonder Woman failed to break through being DC, Marvel and other comics continuity never took that leap of faith, put their most iconic heroes up as cameo appearances outside their usual comics worlds! I've seen Rogue and wonder Man in more cameo guest appearances than even the cosmology hierarchies of DC and Marvel! It seems these two are now carrying Marvel on their backs and the x-men and Avengers are following after these two by poping up in thse outer planes of the tiering system and fictional verses!
I stopped bothering with DC Comics once future state or whatever the the final name of it was started because i didn't want to see things like the original conner Kent losing the wife and daughter on gemworld that he gained after new52 rebirth and the story of how that came to pass!!!
Great list! I want Christopher Priest to be able to write Spider-Man again.
You and me both!
You know very well that's NOT going to happen! Not in a MILLION years! 😅
Remember when we got a deconstruction of Captain America by him bashing the American dream while established captain America is a title everybody can self identify as. Or coming to terms that his shield was racist in origins
How about nearly every super character now having a healing factor? Is that really needed?
Hollywood could learn a lesson from these comments and apply them to their superhero movies.
The covers are gorgeous! The interiors are… not good.
I do follow my fave Marvel characters but it stops at the end of the Jim Shooter era...🤣😆🤣😆
Variant covers are on every book. Once it was something special, now its there to pump up sales.
I can't wait till DEI dies in everything. Its everywhere.
All anyone wants is good stories and good art.
I haven't bought anything from Marvel or DC for several years since i got tired of their nonsense. The stories had been lame for several years and they were starting to bring in gay crap. I have moved on to manga and have never looked back.
Look at number 2 to see the problems of number 1
Hollywood. It's all Hollywood. Events make great 'movies' because they're 'complete' but Comics are best for long form serial storytelling. The Slice of Life stuff is easy to convert to a Netflix production, very little action, so very little stunt work and money spent. Most of the people who work on Comics are former and failed Hollywood. Deconstruction is what Alan Moore did with Watchmen and Hollywood has grabbed onto it, and ran it into the ground. The DEI/ESG is pure Hollywood, there's a saying inside 'Male and Pale is Stale' this mantra permeates every level of every entertainment they control. Reboots and Remakes have been the main money maker for Hollywood since the 1990s, ever since they discovered people didn't want new IPs, just more of the same. And they made BANK until the Reboots changed TOO MUCH.
And Spider-Man has always beaten Bats black and blue out of his costume. Spider-Man has always been the most popular, still is.
I’ll say it again bring back Danny Rand as Iron Fist …now
never shave
I must say....I am IMPRESSED with the very good insight and comments I am reading here, in the category of "Top Comments" of this video comments section. I feel like I am around "my own people" and common ground. i am tired of these modern , liberal progressive themes in comic books. They have ruined so many heroes and villains in DC and in Marvel.
💯
That never happened to Batman, because I never read that arc, and punisher is still a bad ass, because I refuse to read the New arc, because after reading the first issue, I knew what was up. I find myself reading back issues, revisiting great stories, or reading independent comics. Folks, we are not subjected to whatever they give us, we can choose Simply just not to read it. God blessed the few good writers that are still out there holding the torch.
If you want to enjoy comics read 60's to early 90's!
Regardless of manga x comics conversation, flagship comics from 2 top just are: crappy with crappy writing, not on the genre they are supposed to be, disrespect legacy, not on time, reboots with no continuity, expensive, full of fomo tactics, creators and staff are just jackasses who don't care about their customer base, owned by souless corporations, and on and on. Is there any positive? I rather read a Chick Tract.
That is another pet peve that takes away from the comics, stop using race as a excuse to make a hero! When I see Wonder Man, I don't see race, I , seeing Wonder Man, and I no longer use race, but now it's just a character with pale or dark skin! Even so it does not make a difference a hero is a hero, I look to character!
Thundercats 1 has 93 variants
Lilo and Stitch 1 has 39 variants.
How's that for variant cover overload?
Only reason I didn't continue buying Flash or even Green Arrow and Green Lantern (not that Alan Scott trash) is because of money. I actually enjoyed the first issues in those series but the sheer AMOUNT of comics out there are killing my wallet and making it very hard to keep up with everything. Unfortunately something had to be dropped.
The prices are what’s killing me. 20 years ago you could get 20 comics for 60 bucks. Nowadays you get 20 comics you’re paying almost 120 bux!
Marvel and Dc always are trying to get in new readers especially kids but what kid is going to pay all that money to collect Superman or spider man (which are both 5 bux) it’s utter insanity that the cost of a single comic is what a paperback short story collection toon cost in 1997. Don’t even get me started on the backups. About 99% of the backups are garbage.
I’m also done with events. Since 2022 we have had lazarus planet, knight terrors and beast world all with a shit ton of books. And I’m a guy that loved events and always bought peripheral books in the story… but I’m done. Unless it’s something really special then I’m not getting event books ever again.
$120 That is a nice new fancy ominbus price which are like about 1000+ pages. 20 comics is what about 500 pages? Not a great deal really. Pre-owened more bang for the bucks. In total got 15 volumes of GL Rebirth, Blackest Night, Brightest day for less than that.
Funny thing about our kids they are buying stuff around the comics. The films, the figures, the merch, the games, but not the comics. Well one does buy some vs Predator stuff comics maybe some Flash/Hulk, but nothing like a a serious time/money investment like a fan.
It’s even worse when the event turns out to be a stinker.
“So after forty-eight issues, and however long I’ve been doing this video, it was ALLLL for NOTHING!”- Linkara on the DC Comics event Future’s End
Some of us remember bitching when the cover price went up from 25 cents.
I am with you all the way, "cicolasnage...". Most of the regular back issue boxes contain TONS of garbage modern liberal sex agenda stories or bad cover art. If I want good comic books, I have TO ASK for the boxes in the backroom!
The prices are a killer. new children have been ROBBED of having a good comic book hero experience. Sometimes, when I talk with younger kids/fans of comic books, I will simply GIVE THEM a couple of older bronze age comics for free...JUST SO they can read and understand what they have missed over the years and I can see the joy and happiness in their face. Some of them don't know...don't know that there used to be a time when art and story was great in comic books.
You literally have infinite universes. If you want a lesbian, Asian, Wolverine, then make her from Earth 664645 and just tell the story in a way that isn't replacing 616 Wolverine. This is literally a business where you can have your cake and eat it too, but "we can't do that because we have to sanitize certain characters." If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. Also, if 664645 Wolverine doesn't sell, don't badmouth the fans and distributors. Just accept that it didn't sell and move on.