I used to aggressively do scapular depressions before and after lat pulldowns and pullups to get some additonal work in for lower traps and lats lol. FUnnily enough i am convinced they helped
@@coachthierry1only your lower lats will grow. Upper trap: 100% elevation Mid traps: 20% elevation 80% retraction Lowertraps: 50% Retraction 50% Depression Not science backed numbers but basically these are the movements that will grow each trap area
Yeah, well the lower traps do actually depress the scapula too, and my God they are hella strong because i also do scapular depressions, but without without moving my arms and because of the range of motion i can load them with a lot of weight.
@@coachthierry1 Lats grew well, but I cant say they would have not grown at all without this. Beyond the additional volume (that added up over decades) being the main reason, I think they made an additional difference because they helped me get into a proper groove for using the movement to train my lats.
To train the scapular retraction function the ideal way to train the traps is to kind of shrug on a horizontal row, so basically row without moving your arms and this will really take the mid/low traps near failure. What i do is after a normal rowing motion i do these shrugs so i really make sure that i train all of the back muscles close to failure.
Funnily enough a lot of what you said is accurate to my situation, currently have a pulled/tight lower trap and it hurts when I stretch by pulling from the front, but also when I pull my arm up and across my head
I realised the actual insertion of the traps when i saw the animation in your lat video just before this, lol. Thanks for pointing this out, I should've known this before :D
I know you didn't consider this but... how about a dip? Preferably a wider grip, full elevation and depression in a very exposed position for the scaps.
Not sure if it’s lower traps or not, but jefferson curls with knees straight and hips as forward as possible absolutely fried my whole mid back like nothing else did
I notice a few months ago after my last set pulldowns to failure i can do at least without rest 15 scap Depressions, does this mean that my lower traps and maybe even lats(because this is the third lat function) not optimal trained in all this years?
Not really, the depressions are very lat focused but the leverage is different so you can lift a lot more weight than you can with a pulldown, so even if the weight stays the same you’re basically doing a drop set for your lats. If you try to max out depressions fresh and then try to match that right after pulldowns you’ll probably see there’s a significant difference.
Hey Ben, i noticed you dont do full depth squats (pendulum, smith machine), is there a reason for this? Isn't is better to stretch your quads as much as possible ?
The Y-raise is so similar to a lateral raise, looks like just a few degrees different angle. Would it make sense to superset Y and lateral raises? Also do y-raises still engage the side delts, if so how much different would the activation be between both exercises?
Because a y raise works your front delts as well hence why it's a limiting factor. Your traps will eventually and probably already can take more damage than your massively smaller front delts. Instead of supersetting, I would instead do a lower trap pulldown + side delt raises.
Hey Ben, I was sitting on a bench yesterday at the gym with dumbbells on my quads getting ready to do shoulder presses when I started rotating my my wrist with the dumbbells letting them go from vertical to almost horizontal sitting straight and I noticed it was working something close to my middle inner back (gonna say lower traps. Is that a move or was I tweaking thinking it was a workout because I started repping for 3 sets of whatever that was.
Both muscles are getting work, you can play which one fails first by considering things like the relative strength of each, load direction/resistance profile, pre-fatigue and external/internal rotation of the shoulder which goes with grip type.
So scapular downward rotation is the opposite of what the lower traps do. But scapula depression where the arms don't bend and you just shrug down on a pulldown would be a lower trap motion, right?
For scapular rotation. Should it also be in a scapular plane like lateral raise or it can be on a frontal plane ? (Like the suppinated raise you do when you are warming up.)
I used to aggressively do scapular depressions before and after lat pulldowns and pullups to get some additonal work in for lower traps and lats lol. FUnnily enough i am convinced they helped
How did your lats respond to that?
@@coachthierry1only your lower lats will grow.
Upper trap: 100% elevation
Mid traps: 20% elevation 80% retraction
Lowertraps: 50% Retraction 50% Depression
Not science backed numbers but basically these are the movements that will grow each trap area
Yeah, well the lower traps do actually depress the scapula too, and my God they are hella strong because i also do scapular depressions, but without without moving my arms and because of the range of motion i can load them with a lot of weight.
@@coachthierry1 Lats grew well, but I cant say they would have not grown at all without this. Beyond the additional volume (that added up over decades) being the main reason, I think they made an additional difference because they helped me get into a proper groove for using the movement to train my lats.
Thank you so much for this!
I experimented with Y-raise variations last back day after watching this, and I got really sore in my lower traps 💪
To train the scapular retraction function the ideal way to train the traps is to kind of shrug on a horizontal row, so basically row without moving your arms and this will really take the mid/low traps near failure. What i do is after a normal rowing motion i do these shrugs so i really make sure that i train all of the back muscles close to failure.
Funnily enough a lot of what you said is accurate to my situation, currently have a pulled/tight lower trap and it hurts when I stretch by pulling from the front, but also when I pull my arm up and across my head
Thank you for explaining the anatomy of lower traps and how to train them!!
I realised the actual insertion of the traps when i saw the animation in your lat video just before this, lol. Thanks for pointing this out, I should've known this before :D
Interesting, I think military pressing or perhaps a high incline bench allowing scapular movement would also be beneficial for the lower traps.
Mind blown Ben! Beautifully explained! So which muscles cause depression of the scaps? The lats and pec Minor (and perhaps pec major as well)?
Next upper straps please🙏
Thanks for finding a working marker :)
welcome :)
Thanks ben for existing you just upload videos on the topic which I want people to talk and not like milo wolf talking with no emotion like a robot
Damn. I've stumbled upon gold. Great video.
I know you didn't consider this but... how about a dip? Preferably a wider grip, full elevation and depression in a very exposed position for the scaps.
Just wow! Thanks Ben!
Thanks
I incorporated the Lu raisers
@ on my pull day.
Not sure if it’s lower traps or not, but jefferson curls with knees straight and hips as forward as possible absolutely fried my whole mid back like nothing else did
Yanes? As in Yañes? Or Yañez?
Poliquin trap3 raise and all its variants is the shit!
What about ohp? Do this movement will make the lower trap stronger or is the other way around?
Welcome to the Y raise club :)
been in this cloud for years friend
What do you think of a diagonal trajectory pulldown, inclined torso, shoulder abduction and open elbows, for this lower traps?
Random Q: If I want to get better mobility should I skip horizontal push exercises and only do pulls for upperbody?
6:45
The low traps gettin to ya
I notice a few months ago after my last set pulldowns to failure i can do at least without rest 15 scap Depressions, does this mean that my lower traps and maybe even lats(because this is the third lat function) not optimal trained in all this years?
Not really, the depressions are very lat focused but the leverage is different so you can lift a lot more weight than you can with a pulldown, so even if the weight stays the same you’re basically doing a drop set for your lats. If you try to max out depressions fresh and then try to match that right after pulldowns you’ll probably see there’s a significant difference.
Hey Ben, i noticed you dont do full depth squats (pendulum, smith machine), is there a reason for this? Isn't is better to stretch your quads as much as possible ?
why would you assume i dont do those?
@The_Modern_Meathead wow what an informative answer (: i assumed because out of all videos i could find, nothing was full depth
The Y-raise is so similar to a lateral raise, looks like just a few degrees different angle. Would it make sense to superset Y and lateral raises? Also do y-raises still engage the side delts, if so how much different would the activation be between both exercises?
Because a y raise works your front delts as well hence why it's a limiting factor. Your traps will eventually and probably already can take more damage than your massively smaller front delts. Instead of supersetting, I would instead do a lower trap pulldown + side delt raises.
So add Lu raises?
Hey Ben, I was sitting on a bench yesterday at the gym with dumbbells on my quads getting ready to do shoulder presses when I started rotating my my wrist with the dumbbells letting them go from vertical to almost horizontal sitting straight and I noticed it was working something close to my middle inner back (gonna say lower traps. Is that a move or was I tweaking thinking it was a workout because I started repping for 3 sets of whatever that was.
Will the delts be a limiting factor in y raise?
Both muscles are getting work, you can play which one fails first by considering things like the relative strength of each, load direction/resistance profile, pre-fatigue and external/internal rotation of the shoulder which goes with grip type.
depends on how you do them. this is why i emphasized concentrating mostly on the top portion for lower traps
So scapular downward rotation is the opposite of what the lower traps do. But scapula depression where the arms don't bend and you just shrug down on a pulldown would be a lower trap motion, right?
Yes. From my understanding, The lower traps and upper traps work together in upwards rotation, but the lower traps also depress the shoulder.
"This is a spine."
No sir, if I know anything that's a whiteboard. And you claim to know about this stuff... Sheesh!
😅😅
lol
so technically lateral raises train the lower trap?
yes, they do!
bro stop stalking my youtube search...
for the algo
thank you!
For scapular rotation. Should it also be in a scapular plane like lateral raise or it can be on a frontal plane ? (Like the suppinated raise you do when you are warming up.)
both are fine