Sometimes, I try to imagine what it would be like to live in a world in which the gods affected your life so intimately that ritual and propitiation was critical to survival. I suppose gods were regarded as we regard molecules with intentions, emotions, and agency to direct and change every aspect of your life.
The Roman Republic appeared almost contemporaneously in 509BC and while it wasn’t a pure democracy it did have a strong “democratic” element with the centuriate assembly and the annual election of magistrates by both Plebs and Patricians. The Romans were pretty pious so I am sure the Republic had a spiritual dimension but the question of citizenship seems to be a bit more open (to men) with a slave potentially becoming a freeman and being enrolled in one of the tribes. I’m wondering how the Gods would condone this sort of behaviour, whereas in Athens as in the ancient world you were part of the Demos or not based on the sacred connection of the people to the soil and foreign immigrants had no chance of joining.
Dear Mr Holland, This excellent episode on Athenian democracy was released, I suspect intentionally, just one day after the national elections in Greece. I would like to draw your attention to one particular aspect of the results of those elections. Specifically, in most regions of the north (Macedonia and Thrace), two political parties that focused their campaign on the matter of the Prespes agreement were voted with a percentage higher than double that which they received on average nationwide (around 8% and 5%). It is evident therefore, regardless of the seriousness of those parties, that the people of northern Greece consider this an important issue. With this fact as a motive, I would like to ask you to explain the statement you made in episode 116 on Alexander the Great, namely that "the argument over Alexander is insane, because he does not belong to either". As the aforementioned statistics prove, it carries such cultural and historical significance that it can not be left unjustified. Thank you
They are free to LARP as Ancient Macedonians if they want - it doesn't change the historical reality. Perhaps both Greeks and their northern neighbors would do better in focusing on modern issues - of which both countries have plenty - instead of fighting over literal ancient history. If things keep going as they are there won't be a living soul in either country anyway as everyone has left for work in northern Europe.
@@mithrandirthegrey7644 On principle I agree with you about there being much more urgent contemporary problems, which is why I did not reply. However, after the recent elections in the "northern neighbours", and the ensuing aggravating, scandalous and indignant statements made by the new president, I could not help but return here and write this. It is evident that, even though this issue holds no practical consequence for the lives of the people, it is still relevant and used very successfully for demagoguery. Regardless of arguments over the name itself, which are formulated based on relatively more recent history, exactly how are you suggesting that "historical reality" is reflected upon the statement "the argument over Alexander is insane, because he does not belong to either"? It is a genuine question. Finally, keep an eye out for Greece's European election results this Sunday (I am writing one day before) if you are interested. Parties that oppose the Prespes agreement (perhaps for populist reasons, but representing a significant portion of the population nonetheless) are expected to receive increased support.
Paul Vanderklay sent me. Said it was great episode that touched on Universal History as espoused by Jonathan Pageau and Richard Rohlins.
Always worth listening to :)
Lovely broadcast. Well done, gentlemen. Well done.
Excellent podcast. Thanks for sharing your knowledge in such an amusing way
Jolly good show
The Athenian was infinitely weird, yet monumentally fantastic.
I literally love you both. ❤
❤
Which translation of Herodotus are you quoting from?
Woop woop
That was a hum-dinger.
Sometimes, I try to imagine what it would be like to live in a world in which the gods affected your life so intimately that ritual and propitiation was critical to survival. I suppose gods were regarded as we regard molecules with intentions, emotions, and agency to direct and change every aspect of your life.
The Roman Republic appeared almost contemporaneously in 509BC and while it wasn’t a pure democracy it did have a strong “democratic” element with the centuriate assembly and the annual election of magistrates by both Plebs and Patricians. The Romans were pretty pious so I am sure the Republic had a spiritual dimension but the question of citizenship seems to be a bit more open (to men) with a slave potentially becoming a freeman and being enrolled in one of the tribes. I’m wondering how the Gods would condone this sort of behaviour, whereas in Athens as in the ancient world you were part of the Demos or not based on the sacred connection of the people to the soil and foreign immigrants had no chance of joining.
Sounds like Cleisthenes invented constituencies & redistricting!
Dear Mr Holland,
This excellent episode on Athenian democracy was released, I suspect intentionally, just one day after the national elections in Greece. I would like to draw your attention to one particular aspect of the results of those elections. Specifically, in most regions of the north (Macedonia and Thrace), two political parties that focused their campaign on the matter of the Prespes agreement were voted with a percentage higher than double that which they received on average nationwide (around 8% and 5%). It is evident therefore, regardless of the seriousness of those parties, that the people of northern Greece consider this an important issue. With this fact as a motive, I would like to ask you to explain the statement you made in episode 116 on Alexander the Great, namely that "the argument over Alexander is insane, because he does not belong to either". As the aforementioned statistics prove, it carries such cultural and historical significance that it can not be left unjustified.
Thank you
They are free to LARP as Ancient Macedonians if they want - it doesn't change the historical reality. Perhaps both Greeks and their northern neighbors would do better in focusing on modern issues - of which both countries have plenty - instead of fighting over literal ancient history. If things keep going as they are there won't be a living soul in either country anyway as everyone has left for work in northern Europe.
@@mithrandirthegrey7644 On principle I agree with you about there being much more urgent contemporary problems, which is why I did not reply. However, after the recent elections in the "northern neighbours", and the ensuing aggravating, scandalous and indignant statements made by the new president, I could not help but return here and write this. It is evident that, even though this issue holds no practical consequence for the lives of the people, it is still relevant and used very successfully for demagoguery.
Regardless of arguments over the name itself, which are formulated based on relatively more recent history, exactly how are you suggesting that "historical reality" is reflected upon the statement "the argument over Alexander is insane, because he does not belong to either"? It is a genuine question.
Finally, keep an eye out for Greece's European election results this Sunday (I am writing one day before) if you are interested. Parties that oppose the Prespes agreement (perhaps for populist reasons, but representing a significant portion of the population nonetheless) are expected to receive increased support.
Wish there wasn’t so much emphasis on virtue signaling and trying to pamper such people on here.