I mean moving duels aren’t a good format for moving anyway, in actual moving competitions like La Ligue, not the poorly designed World Cup, you get 3 minutes to 5k whatever happens not a « moving duel » where each round lasts 20 seconds because one guy is instasending
Yeah, instasending is way too OP, it basically makes the moving rounds into optional NM for the other player. Basically mitigates any advantage a moving player could have.
Your suggestion was really good of each player choosing their favourite mode at the start after a coin toss, then the third unchosen mode is the tiebreak. You should def lobby the devs for that together with slightly lower HP+lower multis. These are the main changes which need to happen.
this would be great. also the players may not always choose the same mode even if they have one favorite mode, if they for example know their opponent has a big weakness in one mode then they might choose that one. that would bring an extra bit of strategy to the game
I'd also add that players should be able to choose and eliminate maps from a set of say 7 or so like in SC2. Like if you're really good at ARW and opponent doesn't eliminate it you choose that.
Lower multis is the most important one imo, adds a crazy and unnecessary amount of RNG. I get why the devs think it’s exciting to watch, but there must be a similarly exciting format that weights all rounds more evenly.
moving elo definitely skews down since more lower rated players play it, and there were moving focused players like blinky who just haven't played many games. As a moving focused player I think the biggest issue is that moving duels are more or less no move duels because an nm player can just send if they want and largely discount moving skill (it's the same issue that happens in the world cup which is basically 70-80% nm skill based), so I'd rather just play leagues or solo games than multiplayer where I don't even get anything out of much of my skillset like pinpointing and knowing small countries. I think because of reasons like this too top moving players get underrepresented in the space since their names don't show up on the most popular leaderboards, and people only hear about top nm/nmpz players doing well. edit: Another thing to point out is that I think at lower elos moving is far more popular, so from the perspective of marketing competitive to a wide audience they might want to emphasize moving duels,
This is not because moving mode is bad imo, this is because no move preferred players will just insta send on moving games before a moving player is able to use information. A decent strategy, no shade at that. But because of this, a moving main can't get to the higher echelons against competition that sends too quick and only allows 15 seconds. The fix is to divide up the ratings. Have a separate rating system for the three modes. If they want to have an average as the profile rating then that'd be fair, too.
Potentially, moving x moving duels also take a longer? Which means NM & NMPZ may average more matches completed for the same amount of time played - the same amount of skill and effort, but moving would be less efficient for climbing the ranks. Which means we could say that all of the NM/NMPZ players absolutely have to be among the best in the world to make it to the top 20, but moving players who are also absolutely among the best may not be appearing in the top 20 (i.e. top 20 is not an accurate reflection of all the current top players). So, your criticism of the WC format is absolutely correct, but I feel that your reason and supporting evidence in this particular clip is a little flawed, because moving is not quite as under-represented among the top players as the duels ranks suggest. (Though, yes, undoubtedly, many top players aren't moving players and that is your overall point and definitely part of the problem with the format.) One little addition: I get a little frustrated that there seems to be this growing moving vs no moving divide among the attitudes of the players and the community. It feels like people are advocating for their preferred format by bringing down the other format. It would be good if we could highlight the value of each format and advocate for it without needing to criticise another format. It's not only the start of the community becoming more toxic, I think reducing the importance of any of the the formats (such as they're currently doing with NMPZ, and some are advocating they do with moving) makes the game and community less rich, interesting and capable of growth. One of the best things about your suggestion in the other video for how to fix the issues with the order of the games in the WC is that it wouldn't make things unfair for other formats in order to fix the unfairness that currently exists for NMPZ. 👍
Following on from this, the longer matches for moving also affect queuing times since players potentially are locked up in matches for longer/take longer to return to the queue. This is another reason moving players may get through fewer matches in the same amount of time, but also why it can seem as if there are fewer moving players actually playing. And that, in turn, can discourage moving players from bothering with ranked duels of they don't have the time (or patience). The point here is that, yes, there are a lot of no moving players in the top and this should be better reflected in the WC if we want it to be fair and a true reflection of all players' ability, but if people are using queue times as proof that moving is not popular, then it's not reliable evidence of that.
There are very good points in comments so instead of repeating them I'll add my perspective coming from a Rocket League fan: in RL, everyone plays ranked 2v2, but the esports mode is 3v3. And that's because the base game is 3v3, just like the base Geoguessr is moving. And since NM players can instasend in Moving I think if anything I think the NM skillset is overrepresented at the world cup.
Actually, its like in chess, with classical chess and blitz or bullets but the king of the world is from the Classical game where all the genius of the player is shown. I agree it needs to be the same with Geoguessr even if its more fun to play NM/NMPZ
I also like your suggestion of two modes chosen then the third being tiebreaker. Also, I think we should get to a point where players can choose and eliminate maps from a set of say 7 or so like in SC2.
but this says nothing though. this tells you what the people with the highest elo play, not what the best players play. At that level a high elo is all about consistency which is harder in moving due to multipliers (any champion can survive into high multipliers in moving and get a lucky round where they find the info first). Before NM/NMPZ duels, a rating of 1700 was very rare, now it is not even that spectacular. This is not because NM players are better at geoguessr, they are just able to beat lower rated opponents more consistently. So players can still play moving, but you won't see them at the top of the leaderboard then. As for your opinion about the world cup, there literally is no incentive to be able to move. You can lose all "moving" games and still win and these games aren't even moving. You get 1 minute which often is not enough to find good info. You also will face opponents who can instasend so you only get 20 secs. Instead they should be playing live challenges. The world cup is a NM/NMPZ world cup. If we wanted a world cup which represented all geoguessr skills then there should be 1 NMPZ duel, 1 NM duel, 1 live challenge with enough time to find info and 1 "first to 5k" type duel where the person who 5k's the fastest gets the point. These are the 4 basic game modes in the game and right now only 2 of them are shown. Then the best players would actually be the favourites since you have to be able to play all variants of geoguessr.
You can't really compare elo between separate player populations given the limited overlap in players that play both. Since there's more people playing NM it's easier to get to say 1700 playing NM than 1700 playing Moving. Even players who are equally skilled at NM/Moving would lose points from playing Moving. Additionally as other people mentioned duels aren't the favoured format for moving given it neglects pinpointing. I do like the idea of players being able to pick the order of Moving/NM/NMPZ, but mainly because it allows players to showcase what they're good at. Like if both players are NMPZ players might as well guarantee an NMPZ match.
Couldn't agree more and they need to do something with the multis, less health no multis is much better. Can they do that or atleast cap or reduce the multi increseas
I don't even get it as a relative casual. Watching two dudes zoop down the road in a laggy mess only to read a sign I don't understand that the other player didn't see isn't exciting.
yeah they should put Moving as the tiebreaker. NM, NMPZ, Moving. Moving going last rhymes with the effects of multis in later rounds of games- increasingly stochastic and amplifying of small differences in performance toward the later end.
I mean even moving players at the top are not playing that much moving duels since the NM players would just instasend, so why even bother playing playing moving duels
that actually barely happens anymore since the only people queueing moving in like 1400+ champions are all hardcore moving players. Although i don't really know about lower divisions
fair argument, the moving scene definitely doesn't have as big an audience behimd it, but it is big enough in my opinion to include in the world cup. the top 100 skews the apparent interest because very good moving players such as debre are barred from queueing moving because they would never queue anyone
@@sayansingha6370 in a best of 3 yes, in a best of 5 no, if you 3 0 in a best of 5 you won 2 moving and 1 NM game. It being first makes it slightly more important than NM.
Agree, they might listen to you if you explain it like that. I had no idea that it was that much NM and NMPZ at the top, they probably have never bothered to check too.
Their format isn't oriented towards competative integrity, it's oriented towards making a broadcast most accessible to casual fans, or even people who have never heard of geoguessr before. It's marketing, and moving is how I'd guess 99% of geoguessr accounts play, as it's the default. The comp scene and people who follow it are an extreme minority.
the title quoting yourself 💀💀
one man media company
I mean moving duels aren’t a good format for moving anyway, in actual moving competitions like La Ligue, not the poorly designed World Cup, you get 3 minutes to 5k whatever happens not a « moving duel » where each round lasts 20 seconds because one guy is instasending
that too
Yeah, instasending is way too OP, it basically makes the moving rounds into optional NM for the other player. Basically mitigates any advantage a moving player could have.
Exactly. Thank you
Your suggestion was really good of each player choosing their favourite mode at the start after a coin toss, then the third unchosen mode is the tiebreak. You should def lobby the devs for that together with slightly lower HP+lower multis. These are the main changes which need to happen.
this would be great. also the players may not always choose the same mode even if they have one favorite mode, if they for example know their opponent has a big weakness in one mode then they might choose that one. that would bring an extra bit of strategy to the game
@@EncryptedBear8 exactly
I'd also add that players should be able to choose and eliminate maps from a set of say 7 or so like in SC2. Like if you're really good at ARW and opponent doesn't eliminate it you choose that.
Lower multis is the most important one imo, adds a crazy and unnecessary amount of RNG. I get why the devs think it’s exciting to watch, but there must be a similarly exciting format that weights all rounds more evenly.
moving elo definitely skews down since more lower rated players play it, and there were moving focused players like blinky who just haven't played many games.
As a moving focused player I think the biggest issue is that moving duels are more or less no move duels because an nm player can just send if they want and largely discount moving skill (it's the same issue that happens in the world cup which is basically 70-80% nm skill based), so I'd rather just play leagues or solo games than multiplayer where I don't even get anything out of much of my skillset like pinpointing and knowing small countries.
I think because of reasons like this too top moving players get underrepresented in the space since their names don't show up on the most popular leaderboards, and people only hear about top nm/nmpz players doing well.
edit: Another thing to point out is that I think at lower elos moving is far more popular, so from the perspective of marketing competitive to a wide audience they might want to emphasize moving duels,
This is not because moving mode is bad imo, this is because no move preferred players will just insta send on moving games before a moving player is able to use information. A decent strategy, no shade at that. But because of this, a moving main can't get to the higher echelons against competition that sends too quick and only allows 15 seconds.
The fix is to divide up the ratings. Have a separate rating system for the three modes. If they want to have an average as the profile rating then that'd be fair, too.
That’s more a problem with the competitive format you’re looking at. Also the queues fr moving duels at higher levels is very long so no one tries.
people would play moving if they fixed the scoring system. Atm moving duels favors finding info and plonking rather than trying to pinpoint and 5k
Potentially, moving x moving duels also take a longer? Which means NM & NMPZ may average more matches completed for the same amount of time played - the same amount of skill and effort, but moving would be less efficient for climbing the ranks.
Which means we could say that all of the NM/NMPZ players absolutely have to be among the best in the world to make it to the top 20, but moving players who are also absolutely among the best may not be appearing in the top 20 (i.e. top 20 is not an accurate reflection of all the current top players).
So, your criticism of the WC format is absolutely correct, but I feel that your reason and supporting evidence in this particular clip is a little flawed, because moving is not quite as under-represented among the top players as the duels ranks suggest. (Though, yes, undoubtedly, many top players aren't moving players and that is your overall point and definitely part of the problem with the format.)
One little addition:
I get a little frustrated that there seems to be this growing moving vs no moving divide among the attitudes of the players and the community. It feels like people are advocating for their preferred format by bringing down the other format. It would be good if we could highlight the value of each format and advocate for it without needing to criticise another format. It's not only the start of the community becoming more toxic, I think reducing the importance of any of the the formats (such as they're currently doing with NMPZ, and some are advocating they do with moving) makes the game and community less rich, interesting and capable of growth. One of the best things about your suggestion in the other video for how to fix the issues with the order of the games in the WC is that it wouldn't make things unfair for other formats in order to fix the unfairness that currently exists for NMPZ. 👍
Following on from this, the longer matches for moving also affect queuing times since players potentially are locked up in matches for longer/take longer to return to the queue. This is another reason moving players may get through fewer matches in the same amount of time, but also why it can seem as if there are fewer moving players actually playing. And that, in turn, can discourage moving players from bothering with ranked duels of they don't have the time (or patience).
The point here is that, yes, there are a lot of no moving players in the top and this should be better reflected in the WC if we want it to be fair and a true reflection of all players' ability, but if people are using queue times as proof that moving is not popular, then it's not reliable evidence of that.
Plsss let them implement your suggestion of players picking their preferred formats
We need seperate Moving World Cup and NM(PZ) World Cups. I would watch them both.
There are very good points in comments so instead of repeating them I'll add my perspective coming from a Rocket League fan: in RL, everyone plays ranked 2v2, but the esports mode is 3v3. And that's because the base game is 3v3, just like the base Geoguessr is moving.
And since NM players can instasend in Moving I think if anything I think the NM skillset is overrepresented at the world cup.
Actually, its like in chess, with classical chess and blitz or bullets but the king of the world is from the Classical game where all the genius of the player is shown.
I agree it needs to be the same with Geoguessr even if its more fun to play NM/NMPZ
I also like your suggestion of two modes chosen then the third being tiebreaker. Also, I think we should get to a point where players can choose and eliminate maps from a set of say 7 or so like in SC2.
but this says nothing though. this tells you what the people with the highest elo play, not what the best players play. At that level a high elo is all about consistency which is harder in moving due to multipliers (any champion can survive into high multipliers in moving and get a lucky round where they find the info first). Before NM/NMPZ duels, a rating of 1700 was very rare, now it is not even that spectacular. This is not because NM players are better at geoguessr, they are just able to beat lower rated opponents more consistently. So players can still play moving, but you won't see them at the top of the leaderboard then.
As for your opinion about the world cup, there literally is no incentive to be able to move. You can lose all "moving" games and still win and these games aren't even moving. You get 1 minute which often is not enough to find good info. You also will face opponents who can instasend so you only get 20 secs. Instead they should be playing live challenges. The world cup is a NM/NMPZ world cup.
If we wanted a world cup which represented all geoguessr skills then there should be 1 NMPZ duel, 1 NM duel, 1 live challenge with enough time to find info and 1 "first to 5k" type duel where the person who 5k's the fastest gets the point. These are the 4 basic game modes in the game and right now only 2 of them are shown. Then the best players would actually be the favourites since you have to be able to play all variants of geoguessr.
Basically your point is that moving is more competitive so noone stands out and gets to the top of the leaderboard?
You can't really compare elo between separate player populations given the limited overlap in players that play both. Since there's more people playing NM it's easier to get to say 1700 playing NM than 1700 playing Moving. Even players who are equally skilled at NM/Moving would lose points from playing Moving. Additionally as other people mentioned duels aren't the favoured format for moving given it neglects pinpointing. I do like the idea of players being able to pick the order of Moving/NM/NMPZ, but mainly because it allows players to showcase what they're good at. Like if both players are NMPZ players might as well guarantee an NMPZ match.
Couldn't agree more and they need to do something with the multis, less health no multis is much better. Can they do that or atleast cap or reduce the multi increseas
I don't even get it as a relative casual. Watching two dudes zoop down the road in a laggy mess only to read a sign I don't understand that the other player didn't see isn't exciting.
Format should be
Game 1: move
Game 2 NM
Game 3: NMPZ
Game 4: NM
Game 5: NMPZ
Agreed
yeah they should put Moving as the tiebreaker. NM, NMPZ, Moving. Moving going last rhymes with the effects of multis in later rounds of games- increasingly stochastic and amplifying of small differences in performance toward the later end.
I mean even moving players at the top are not playing that much moving duels since the NM players would just instasend, so why even bother playing playing moving duels
that actually barely happens anymore since the only people queueing moving in like 1400+ champions are all hardcore moving players. Although i don't really know about lower divisions
the moving players only have no elo because no top players play moving so they have nowhere to gain it from
that’s true i meant to mention that but forgot - still tho the problem arises from a lack of interest in the first place
fair argument, the moving scene definitely doesn't have as big an audience behimd it, but it is big enough in my opinion to include in the world cup. the top 100 skews the apparent interest because very good moving players such as debre are barred from queueing moving because they would never queue anyone
@@curiosity5697 to include it, sure, but to make it pretty much the main mode is absurd
@@wookgg how is it 'main' mode though? There are as many moving games as NM
@@sayansingha6370 in a best of 3 yes, in a best of 5 no, if you 3 0 in a best of 5 you won 2 moving and 1 NM game. It being first makes it slightly more important than NM.
Agree, they might listen to you if you explain it like that. I had no idea that it was that much NM and NMPZ at the top, they probably have never bothered to check too.
Their format isn't oriented towards competative integrity, it's oriented towards making a broadcast most accessible to casual fans, or even people who have never heard of geoguessr before. It's marketing, and moving is how I'd guess 99% of geoguessr accounts play, as it's the default. The comp scene and people who follow it are an extreme minority.
The best player will be top level at all 3 game modes and hence not complain about the format. Unfortunately, you are not one of these players
Better best of five format
Game 1. Nm
2. Nmpz
3. Nm
4. Nmpz
5. Moving
I used to only play moving, then I grew to hate it because others had faster/better hardware and/or internet. NM is best imo
firsttttt