When people say things like “What would’ve Walt Disney thought about this?”, they probably forget about the stuff he actually would’ve thought. For one thing, he wouldn’t have approved of newer Disney stuff like Encanto or The Owl House
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Tbf, TOH barely even lasted under current Disney management lol.
I hate it when people say that too. Walt probably would've had a heart attack over anything released under the Touchstone Pictures (a Defunct Disney label for more mature stuff) as well.
I'm super into disney but in a very isolating way that I fucking hate walt disney and am very critical of all of his and the company's bullshit. I just really like the production history of it all. I'm glad you spoke about this as I've recently seen a piece of news in defunctland's new video that they're making an animatronic show akin to the hall of presidents but with walt disney. That really makes me worry about how it could manipulate the people into mamorializing a shitty man who abused his power in the same way the hall of presidents aided in the idolization of the US presidents.
I feel like you literally just read my mind because it definitely feels isolating. Ever since I was a kid, I've been into some of the older Disney movies/shows slightly more than the ones made for my generation after his death. I used to watch reruns of the original 1955 Mickey Mouse Club on Disney Channel when I was younger before going to sleep, & it was one of the things that kick-started my interest in musical theatre (I've been acting & performing since I was 9, & every once in a while I re-watch episodes of the show when I'm feeling a little nostalgic). But whenever I see fans of the show (particularly the ones who grew up in the 50s & early 60s) put Walt Disney on a pedestal & ignore some of the negative things about him, often while blasting newer generations of Disney work/stars at the same time, it makes me feel like I'm going crazy. Especially when they claim that Disney wasn't money-hungry and simply cared about putting out good work, even though Disney has *always* been about money, even while Walt was still alive. Walt himself didn't even care about The Mickey Mouse Club all that much, he used the show partly as a cash-grab to fund Disneyland (which opened the same year the show premiered).
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@joshuabautista1805 Well, his anthology show was initially called Disneyland before being renamed to the Wonderful World of Color when color TV was made possible.
Sunflower and Uncle Remus's existence (and erasure) will ensure I will never respect that demon. He potrayed us as "happy slaves" when we were already several generations passed that. I hope he's having fun cooking where he's at for eternity.
now THIS is the kind of energy i was waiting for!!! people seem to forget he was very much ALIVE when song of the south came out and alot of the creative decisions behind that movie were HIS. HE was the one who wanted to make a movie about remus!!!!!!
He was a naive man. I've read 3 books about Disney, and several perspectives from others, including Floyd Norman's. Over a decade ago, Abigail Disney and Meryl Streep shared their public opinion on Walt. Meryl had never met him and Abigail was 5 when he died. Floyd, the first black animator at Disney ( I suggest you watch his documentary 'My Animated Life') stated his own public opinion and pushback against Meryl and Abigail, defending Walt Disney. Disney did not push him to do it. He was already retired. But my original point, yes, he was naive. Take a look at his early life in Marceline, and Kansas City. Everyone drinks up the rumors, but no one cracks a bloody book. Or bother to watch one of the many documentaries available online about Walt or his former employees. Many of whom were minorities, female artists and animators, and Jews.
“Well, that’s the norm of the time!” Let me ask you one fair question, Jan: who is it normal to? 🤨 Keep in mind, the racism in the movies during his time alive was rightfully criticized. We need to stop using this excuse to shield creators like him from criticism.
I thought the whole point of progress and denormalizing something that was once considered normalized was to look back and generally reflect on the state of humanity and society back then and realize "oh yeah, this thing was actually bad and should of never happened because of all the negative consequences it brought" and to just genuinely do better moving foward having this knowledge on what happened. That's why it seems so redundant and contradictory to still try to excuse what happened during this specific time period just because that what was considered "normal" back then when we're trying to criticize it the first place and do better just so the damage and harm it brought doesn't repeat itself.
@@oooh19I think it can still be generally agreed discrimination and bigotry on any level is actually generally bad and will be something that likely hold up in future generations. Atleast hopefully it will be the case or we'll likely see repeats and similarities of the past as well.
Watching the most recent Defunctland piece on Disney’s obsession with animatronics made me realize some of his problems in addition to his bigotry. He despised that his animators were PEOPLE-he was staunchly anti-union, and joked regularly about how he wished he could replace his animators with machines, ignorant to the fact that the people behind the drawings are precisely what made them so beautiful. And for someone who ran an animation studio, which requires skills of management and business, he could not animate. Lol
@@kremdelacrem that was the biggest thing that stood out to me in that video tbh. He never put in nearly as much work as the people he employed and all he did was slap his name on anything he wanted
As a Disney fan, I have VERY complicated feelings on Walt the man. On the one hand, I have a ton of respect for his creative drive. Walt was a pioneer of animation and entertainment, and while I highly respect Walt as a creative, and someone who brought joy to millions around the world, I also cannot deny that Walt had MAJOR problems. Some of it was indeed a product of his time, and others... not so much. Even as someone who respects the man and his work, one must recognize their flaws. Walt was a perfectionist, and that perfectionism made him controlling. That cannot be justified. Thank you for sharing your piece, Harriyanna. I really appreciate you encouraging me to look at things with a critical eye.
It's really not fair how much Walt Disney overshadows the work that all of his employees have done, the ones that made him and Disney wealthy and famous. I heard that Disney was a bad boss and how his employees went on strike. I also heard that had it not been for the Disney Renaissance than Disney would have crashed, they were falling apart after Walt Disney died.
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You kind of contradicted yourself in that last sentence there.
I already knew Walt Disney was a horrible man but the fact about him calling the 7 Dwarves made my jaw drop. That is insane, I'm not surprised, but that is just wild
People defending Walt Disney’s actions and Dr. Seuss’s actions reminds me of how people defended Vic Mignogna’s actions and ganged up on Monica Rial and Jamie Marchi and people ganged up on Britney Spears.
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Walt Disney and Dr. Seuss weren't accused of direct sexual assault/harassment.
I love Disney and their work, and obviously Walt Disney was a problematic and complicated man, but at the end of the day none of us actually knew him and he was just a man. The weird pedestal mentality towards these men is never particularly healthy, I think I found it easier to explore my love for Disney once I stopped focusing on Walt, and started learning about the many artists who poured their hearts into these films, two favourites being Mary Blaire and Howard Ashman
Ohh yeah way after Walt, all I mean is it's better to look at it as a large company of artists, rather than this weird one brilliant man thing that people have going on
Every time I hear people use the “Different time” excuse to defend a person with status for their bigotry, I always remember what Swoop said when people tried to use that excuse to defend Glam&Gore’s micro aggressions towards beauty gurus in marginalized groups: “Different to who?”
incredible topic!!!!! i’ve never super been into disney and people’s willingness to ignore the racism and exploitation the company was built upon has always baffled me and i’m glad people are talking about it now! also i love your make-up it’s so amazing!!!!!
In the Once Upon a Studio short, there's this part that's supposed to be emotional where Mickey says thanks to a picture of Disney, and I do get why it is included, but all I can feel is uncomfortable. He did a lot of good, but he isn't a safe person for everyone.
Walt Disney, Dr. Seuss, the people who created loony tunes, etc it’s disturbing how easily people will overlook/ excuse the bigotry for the rose colored glasses of childhood ignorance. It’s worse cause they are so quick (typically non black/ poc and non Jews) to come to the defense of these men for the bigotry they WILLINGLY put into their products. They need to be criticized especially cause they cater to children.
This reminds me about the people who constantly defend Mr Beast. The way people would go and defend Mr Beast. Like he didn’t even give most of any of these people defending him online any money. Yet people will still side with him rather than be critical of the systems keeping them in that position!
I'm glad I'm not alone here. There are many Walt Disney historians, official or long-term hobbyists who have a duty to shut down this silliness, and people who believe speculation over fact.
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@@lepapercastle Harriyanna Hook was always a quack, and to be fair, as a person who's known her since I got the video where she rats out Dr. Seuss in my recommendations nearly four years ago, she seems to hate everything. Even Bratz, whom her profile picture was for the longest time, she made a video complaining about it. I swear if she makes a video ratting out Stephen Hillenburg, I'll tear her a new one.
I'll be honest, most disney movies when he was alive sucked. Not all, but a very large percentage. It's the bronze age, disney Renaissance, and eras after that people like the most.
There's been a saying from myself here. You can enjoy some of their products, but always keeping sure to not defend certain companies and all. Though it doesn't make me side with certain folks either, especially when it comes to social media of this day and age. Kinda why I got some trust issues. Not to mention there's a line in BoJack Horeseman where ya remind them to carry their heavy burden for the rest of their lives. May sound like I'm playing Devil's Advocate, but the world itself ain't Paradise, to be fair. 😅
I swear you're the only person i ever see consistently bring up dr seuss being a nasty human being, everyone knows walt disney even if they dont want to accept that but not dr seuss even half as much
When people say things like “What would’ve Walt Disney thought about this?”, they probably forget about the stuff he actually would’ve thought. For one thing, he wouldn’t have approved of newer Disney stuff like Encanto or The Owl House
Tbf, TOH barely even lasted under current Disney management lol.
I hate it when people say that too.
Walt probably would've had a heart attack over anything released under the Touchstone Pictures (a Defunct Disney label for more mature stuff) as well.
Bro probably would’ve hated TOH
I'm super into disney but in a very isolating way that I fucking hate walt disney and am very critical of all of his and the company's bullshit. I just really like the production history of it all. I'm glad you spoke about this as I've recently seen a piece of news in defunctland's new video that they're making an animatronic show akin to the hall of presidents but with walt disney. That really makes me worry about how it could manipulate the people into mamorializing a shitty man who abused his power in the same way the hall of presidents aided in the idolization of the US presidents.
I feel like you literally just read my mind because it definitely feels isolating. Ever since I was a kid, I've been into some of the older Disney movies/shows slightly more than the ones made for my generation after his death. I used to watch reruns of the original 1955 Mickey Mouse Club on Disney Channel when I was younger before going to sleep, & it was one of the things that kick-started my interest in musical theatre (I've been acting & performing since I was 9, & every once in a while I re-watch episodes of the show when I'm feeling a little nostalgic). But whenever I see fans of the show (particularly the ones who grew up in the 50s & early 60s) put Walt Disney on a pedestal & ignore some of the negative things about him, often while blasting newer generations of Disney work/stars at the same time, it makes me feel like I'm going crazy. Especially when they claim that Disney wasn't money-hungry and simply cared about putting out good work, even though Disney has *always* been about money, even while Walt was still alive. Walt himself didn't even care about The Mickey Mouse Club all that much, he used the show partly as a cash-grab to fund Disneyland (which opened the same year the show premiered).
@joshuabautista1805 Well, his anthology show was initially called Disneyland before being renamed to the Wonderful World of Color when color TV was made possible.
I'd really like to have a debate with someone like you. I've spent two decades of my life preparing for it.
Today's Hall of Presidents was under leadership of his brother, Roy... Walt's original idea was simply for wax figures of the presidents.
@@lepapercastle This is making me laugh so hard right now, thanks dawg
Sunflower and Uncle Remus's existence (and erasure) will ensure I will never respect that demon. He potrayed us as "happy slaves" when we were already several generations passed that. I hope he's having fun cooking where he's at for eternity.
now THIS is the kind of energy i was waiting for!!! people seem to forget he was very much ALIVE when song of the south came out and alot of the creative decisions behind that movie were HIS. HE was the one who wanted to make a movie about remus!!!!!!
He was a naive man. I've read 3 books about Disney, and several perspectives from others, including Floyd Norman's. Over a decade ago, Abigail Disney and Meryl Streep shared their public opinion on Walt. Meryl had never met him and Abigail was 5 when he died. Floyd, the first black animator at Disney ( I suggest you watch his documentary 'My Animated Life') stated his own public opinion and pushback against Meryl and Abigail, defending Walt Disney. Disney did not push him to do it. He was already retired.
But my original point, yes, he was naive. Take a look at his early life in Marceline, and Kansas City. Everyone drinks up the rumors, but no one cracks a bloody book. Or bother to watch one of the many documentaries available online about Walt or his former employees. Many of whom were minorities, female artists and animators, and Jews.
@@lepapercastle Agreed
“Well, that’s the norm of the time!”
Let me ask you one fair question, Jan: who is it normal to? 🤨
Keep in mind, the racism in the movies during his time alive was rightfully criticized. We need to stop using this excuse to shield creators like him from criticism.
Well one day 2024 will be looked at differently by future generations because norms change society changes technology fashion etc
@@oooh19 Agreed
I thought the whole point of progress and denormalizing something that was once considered normalized was to look back and generally reflect on the state of humanity and society back then and realize "oh yeah, this thing was actually bad and should of never happened because of all the negative consequences it brought" and to just genuinely do better moving foward having this knowledge on what happened. That's why it seems so redundant and contradictory to still try to excuse what happened during this specific time period just because that what was considered "normal" back then when we're trying to criticize it the first place and do better just so the damage and harm it brought doesn't repeat itself.
@@oooh19I think it can still be generally agreed discrimination and bigotry on any level is actually generally bad and will be something that likely hold up in future generations. Atleast hopefully it will be the case or we'll likely see repeats and similarities of the past as well.
Watching the most recent Defunctland piece on Disney’s obsession with animatronics made me realize some of his problems in addition to his bigotry. He despised that his animators were PEOPLE-he was staunchly anti-union, and joked regularly about how he wished he could replace his animators with machines, ignorant to the fact that the people behind the drawings are precisely what made them so beautiful. And for someone who ran an animation studio, which requires skills of management and business, he could not animate. Lol
@@kremdelacrem that was the biggest thing that stood out to me in that video tbh. He never put in nearly as much work as the people he employed and all he did was slap his name on anything he wanted
Yeah really makes me think if he were around today he would support AI.
As a Disney fan, I have VERY complicated feelings on Walt the man. On the one hand, I have a ton of respect for his creative drive. Walt was a pioneer of animation and entertainment, and while I highly respect Walt as a creative, and someone who brought joy to millions around the world, I also cannot deny that Walt had MAJOR problems. Some of it was indeed a product of his time, and others... not so much. Even as someone who respects the man and his work, one must recognize their flaws. Walt was a perfectionist, and that perfectionism made him controlling. That cannot be justified. Thank you for sharing your piece, Harriyanna. I really appreciate you encouraging me to look at things with a critical eye.
It's really not fair how much Walt Disney overshadows the work that all of his employees have done, the ones that made him and Disney wealthy and famous.
I heard that Disney was a bad boss and how his employees went on strike. I also heard that had it not been for the Disney Renaissance than Disney would have crashed, they were falling apart after Walt Disney died.
You kind of contradicted yourself in that last sentence there.
It's not a contradiction. Disney wasn't doing the best between the Walt and Eisner eras and faced a hostile takeover attempt.
I already knew Walt Disney was a horrible man but the fact about him calling the 7 Dwarves made my jaw drop. That is insane, I'm not surprised, but that is just wild
People defending Walt Disney’s actions and Dr. Seuss’s actions reminds me of how people defended Vic Mignogna’s actions and ganged up on Monica Rial and Jamie Marchi and people ganged up on Britney Spears.
Walt Disney and Dr. Seuss weren't accused of direct sexual assault/harassment.
I never said they were.
I'm not defending his actions. Most of the information she had about Disney was false.
I love Disney and their work, and obviously Walt Disney was a problematic and complicated man, but at the end of the day none of us actually knew him and he was just a man. The weird pedestal mentality towards these men is never particularly healthy, I think I found it easier to explore my love for Disney once I stopped focusing on Walt, and started learning about the many artists who poured their hearts into these films, two favourites being Mary Blaire and Howard Ashman
It's really not fair how Walt Disney screwed over a lot of his employees.
Wasn't Howard Ashman post-Walt?
Ohh yeah way after Walt, all I mean is it's better to look at it as a large company of artists, rather than this weird one brilliant man thing that people have going on
Every time I hear people use the “Different time” excuse to defend a person with status for their bigotry, I always remember what Swoop said when people tried to use that excuse to defend Glam&Gore’s micro aggressions towards beauty gurus in marginalized groups: “Different to who?”
incredible topic!!!!! i’ve never super been into disney and people’s willingness to ignore the racism and exploitation the company was built upon has always baffled me and i’m glad people are talking about it now! also i love your make-up it’s so amazing!!!!!
In the Once Upon a Studio short, there's this part that's supposed to be emotional where Mickey says thanks to a picture of Disney, and I do get why it is included, but all I can feel is uncomfortable. He did a lot of good, but he isn't a safe person for everyone.
Ever since my homeboy Oswald got done dirty by Disney, I haven’t looked at him the same.
Society as a whole needs to stop putting celebrities on a pedestal.
Happy holidays 👊🏿🎄🍻
agreed!
Walt Disney, Dr. Seuss, the people who created loony tunes, etc it’s disturbing how easily people will overlook/ excuse the bigotry for the rose colored glasses of childhood ignorance. It’s worse cause they are so quick (typically non black/ poc and non Jews) to come to the defense of these men for the bigotry they WILLINGLY put into their products. They need to be criticized especially cause they cater to children.
Looney Tunes wasn't originally intended for kids (still doesn't excuse the racist stuff in some of the shorts though).
@ oh! I did not know that cause it would come on cartoon network when I was a kid and be lumped in with Betty boop and stuff I just assumed.
"The people who created Looney Tunes"
That's like a dozen people lol.
Also, a good chunk of the Looney Tunes alma (including "The Man of a Thousand Voices" Mel Blanc), were Jewish themselves lol.
I’ve feeling the same about this for years tbh
This reminds me about the people who constantly defend Mr Beast.
The way people would go and defend Mr Beast. Like he didn’t even give most of any of these people defending him online any money. Yet people will still side with him rather than be critical of the systems keeping them in that position!
Progressive Christmas movies you can watch that aren’t on disney: “Mistletoe Time Machine” and “Breakfast With Scot”. Also, good video.
Isn't Disney criticized for being progressive these days?
@@susanweers4203 The Green M lol...
I can always tell when a body hasn't researched Walt.
Agreed.
I'm glad I'm not alone here. There are many Walt Disney historians, official or long-term hobbyists who have a duty to shut down this silliness, and people who believe speculation over fact.
@@lepapercastle Harriyanna Hook was always a quack, and to be fair, as a person who's known her since I got the video where she rats out Dr. Seuss in my recommendations nearly four years ago, she seems to hate everything. Even Bratz, whom her profile picture was for the longest time, she made a video complaining about it.
I swear if she makes a video ratting out Stephen Hillenburg, I'll tear her a new one.
Ok Walt meatrider.
I'll be honest, most disney movies when he was alive sucked. Not all, but a very large percentage. It's the bronze age, disney Renaissance, and eras after that people like the most.
also RACIST. he was very much ALIVE when dumbo was made!!
Fr. The best Disney movies (both animated and live-action) are after Walt's time.
@@harriyanna Yeah. Some movies are good though. Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, Lady and the Tramp (without the cats), and that might be it tbh.
@MooncoreWitch Fantasia wasn't too bad
Even Pinocchio?!
The fit and lighting is giving sooooo 2013 instagram and I’m IN LOVVVVE (also we hate a mf name Walt Disney)
There's been a saying from myself here. You can enjoy some of their products, but always keeping sure to not defend certain companies and all. Though it doesn't make me side with certain folks either, especially when it comes to social media of this day and age. Kinda why I got some trust issues. Not to mention there's a line in BoJack Horeseman where ya remind them to carry their heavy burden for the rest of their lives. May sound like I'm playing Devil's Advocate, but the world itself ain't Paradise, to be fair. 😅
OMG the myscene music😍
I swear you're the only person i ever see consistently bring up dr seuss being a nasty human being, everyone knows walt disney even if they dont want to accept that but not dr seuss even half as much
Didn't Dr. Suess apologize for his actions later in his life?
I haven’t started the vid yet, though I know I’m gonna agree, I’d love to know your lip combo. It is too cute.
I got the notification and went OH YOU KNOW THIS ONE WILL BE GOOD before clicking
hiii! the lip combo is a dark brown ruby kisses lip liner and the megara lipgloss from my shop