Mysterious fires from boiled linseed and other oil finishes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- Is it a myth? Can linseed oil soaked rags spontaneously combust and burn down your shop?
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-Video about differences between oils: th-cam.com/video/5GRWmYH9vXg/w-d-xo.html
-ABC Video about fire: abcnews.go.com/US/officials-warn-spontaneous-combustion-risk-linseed-oil-common/story?id=40788665#
-Popular Woodworking Flexner article: www.popularwoodworking.com/flexner-on-finishing-woodworking-blogs/linseed-oil-and-spontaneous-combustion-take-it-seriously/
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Fire bombing Dresden as a brit i get the reference bomber Harris was a bit eccentric.... if a jobs worth doing and all that
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Former Firefighter here, and a degree holder in Safety
Thank you for handling this topic mater-of-factly, and in a level headed fashion.
Much props to you guys and your service bro
US Army Infantry
@@davidamoritz
And to you, good sir. Your service is appreciated.
I also do leather working and use Mink Oil, which is a natural animal product. Do you know if that produces heat?
@@billvojtech5686 That's a good question, and one I don't have a solid answer for, myself.
As a retired firefighter/ paramedic, thank you for an excellent public service reminder
I’m a professional arson investigator and the training supervisor for my department. In my career I have personally investigated 4 fires that started this way. Luckily 3 of the 4 were discovered quickly and did minimal damage, but the other one destroyed a multi-million dollar home and damaged both neighbors houses too.
My only additional word of caution is don’t be too quick to throw them away. Make sure they are completely 100%. dry. In one of my classes, we did an experiment with oily rags to see who could could make them ignite fastest. The guy that laid his rags out in the sun to dry and heat up for about 2 hours before they were piled up ignited the fastest. He had full combustion less than an hour after piling them up.
I spread them out on a concrete floor or hang them on a metal bin for rags that has to be handled with care. And I wait days before I throw them in the trash-just to be sure. I work at a furniture factory that had a severe fire many years ago due to rags handled incorrectly. We really try to tell people when they start working here that it's no joke-don't throw rags directly in the big bins! And I know at least a couple of woodworkers who have had small fires (mostly a melted trashcan), and one where the house burned down.
This happened to my grandparents, who owned, and lived in a convenience store in 1948, with four kids. He was upgrading the store with some DIY woodwork. Completely burned down. A little insurance money made for a down payment on a house across town, where my parents met in a carpool group. Arguably, i am here because of spontaneous combustion. I always wondered what kind of finish product he must have used back then.
Best bet, linseed oil.
I’m a firefighter and this is not an uncommon occurance. Went to a fire where a kid knocked over his dad’s BLO in the garage. He mopped it up with a bunch of rags and dumped them in the garbage can. A few hours later, the garage was fully involved. Also have been to a few garbage can fires because of this. Like you said, if you take basic precautions you’ll be fine. But not everyone does and this can be very dangerous. It’s mostly the careless/ignorant people you need to worry about but the threat is real. Unlike dust collector fires in home shops. I've been to several of those in industrial operations but never once in a home shop.
@@F0XD1E Sort of. The first unit on scene does a "size up" which is a report of the conditions. Can range from "nothing showing" to "light smoke," "heavy smoke," "flames showing," "heavy fire," and "fully involved" when the whole thing is on fire. In the case of the BLO garage fire, the entire garage was on fire, a truck in the driveway was on fire, and the flames were about 30 feet high.
Yup, sounds 'fully involved' to me...(I scan fire freqs). Scary stuff. Patrick, a question; if you put oily rags in a bucket of water...won't they mostly just float and potentially combust anyway?
@@PMichaels There is a TH-cam clip where a garage is fully involved with a Tesla and it's lithium battery on fire, inside, it fits your description to a T.
Apparently dust collector fires only happen in industrial settings. It's not just a coincidence that you've never been to one in a home shop.
What causes a dust collector fire? Something like spontaneous combustion or the dust collector overheating?
Should i be concerned if i for instance have sawdust hanging out in an unused shopvac for a couple weeks?
As an ex-firefighter of 22 years, this was a very well done and complete video. I always hang rags that came in contact with oil, epoxy, with any chemicals to let the heat dissipate. It a free and easy solution.
One way to tell your videos are extremely well done! Read the comments, I could not find one negative comment. That is short of a miracle in this day and age! Well done.
I have always spread out the rags on my trash can, just like in the photo you showed. I am glad my reasoning and solution to this potential hazard is grounded in reality.
On a job where I worked as part of a decorative painting team one member was painting faux bois, which used boiled linseed oil and pigments, wrapped his brush in a soaked rag to keep it fresh over the weekend. All of the drop clothes and supplies were stored in a large utility room which also housed the gas furnace. It so happened that the furnace kicked on for the first time of the season and the combination of boiled linseed fumes and the heat from the wrapped brush caused a
fire in that multi-million dollar home. The fire department's inspector concluded that the wrapped brush, it's fumes, and the furnace coming on combined to cause the fire.
Damn - there but for the grace- - go I.
Great video. This happened to a co-worker, they were remodeling and ended up burning their house down. It's not a joke but with some simple precautions it's not a problem.
Thank you!
As a retired firefighter you covered the topic well, especially the proper disposal.
In my career I have seen three fires from improper disposal . One homeowner set their house on fire after refinishing their deck and two separate fires by floor finishing companies prior to the advent of water base formulas.
My favorite woodworking youtuber. Been watching for YEARS. I hope you don't ever stop making videos!!!
I love linseed oil on tool handles. Once its mostly dry, like the next day i used a propane torch to burn the wood a bit to darken the wood and it makes the wood super hard
Happened to my brother several years ago. He had just moved into his house and had spent the whole day painting. Threw everything in the trash can in the evening and luckily smelled smoke a few hours later. I don't think it ever ignited, but he said there was visible smoke when he took the lid off, I'm sure it was close.
Same happened to me years ago. Some smoke and stink but no fire. Lucky. It happens. Be aware.
It's real, if arguably rare. A refinishing contractor left wadded rags on the deck of a friend a few years ago and the resulting fire totaled his house and badly damaged the two adjacent ones. I think it's a runaway process, where the building heat at the center of the rags causes the chemical reaction to speed up and generate more heat and so on. Probably happens faster on a hot day/in the sunshine. I like the suggested prevention steps here, and now avoid putting the rags in water. Who wants to deal with a pile of wet, oily rags?
I had spontaneous combustion happen to me two years ago after I threw my oily rags in the garbage can. The resulting fire melted a hole in the lid. Fortunately, the cans were outside and away from the house. We extinguished the fire easily.
Glad to hear they caught it in time.
Hopefully that contractor only made that "mistake" that one rare time and it isn't some kind of revenge trick he uses against homeowners he has some sort of grudge or resentment toward. Because I know there are guys like that out there, and I know more fire department arson investigators are starting to use big data analytics to find those patterns of "accidental" arson that seem to become common in one area, or for customers of certain contractors. Insurance adjusters, tol. They've invested in machine learning to crunch data to find reasons to deny claims, and then they pass that onto law enforcement.
When I stain wood, I use an old t-shirt. When I am done, I just hang the t-shirt on a metal ladder in my backyard. I spread it out, so it is not bunched-up. I just leave it out there. The ladder is up against a cement-block wall, away from the house. Eventually, it will be totally dried-out. Then I can toss it in the outside trash bin. Never had a problem.
A couple of years ago I used BLO to finish a project of mine. I'd heard the stories about spontaneous combustion from using BLO. To be careful even though I didn't totally believe the tail. I put my oily rags in an empty can. Later on, low and below it was smoking and being a hot day it was soon on fire. I became a believer at that point.
Unfortunately my rental garage went up like this. My renters were staining cabinets in the garage and threw their rags in a corner. I lived across the street at the time and noticed an orange glow outside my house. Luckily it didn't spread. Stay safe out there.
As a hobby woodworker, i toss mine in an air tight jar. there just isnt enough air in those to oxidise them. They dont harden, so you can reuse them. that being said, i just use one or two rags at a time, wouldnt reccomend trying that with more.
This is really what you should do. Saves on rags and keeps them safe. Reduce and Re-Use.
I did that when I was using Danish Oil on some bookshelves. But then when I was finished, I took the rags out to the backyard and deliberately put a match to them!
Correct. Back in 1960s, we would stuff them tight in a small can. If can full, get another small can. Never use large can. Else, hang up on wire, preferably outside to dissipate volatile fumes, and spread them wide, maybe use clothes pegs so not folded over the wire
I love love how we were doing it too wytoo too w
That's like my trick with two paint brushes I keep handy for spot touch ups around the house. Rather than going to the trouble of cleaning them every time, I wrap them in saran wrap and them put them in a zip lock and store them in the freezer.
I used to work as a chemist in a factory laboratory where we developed the new formulations. It was a matter of routine to spread all our rags that were contaminated with anything organic out to dry before discarding.
The purpose of this was to prevent the very spontaneous combustion you have spoken about it such a calm and level headed manner. Very good video.
I had shop class in 6th or 7th grade. They taught us to do with the oily rags exactly the same as what you did here. No water-based finishes around the woodshop back then.
Wow. I'd always assumed the spontaneous combustion of a soaked rag pile was mostly myth except under the most extreme conditions. Now I know better. Thanks.
Keep your shop inferno free with this one simple tip! 😁 I've been leaving my finish rags hung out flat forever, usually outside because my spouse can't stand the vapors. Never once had anything close to a fire from them. Once again, thank you for your common sense shop advice.
Unfortunately, I know from personal experience that oily rags will, indeed, spontaneously combust. I burned down a garage by not being more careful with a pile of Penofin-soaked rags.
I had some oil spill on a folded drip sheet. I didn’t notice because it was in the back of my truck. A couple hours later, a neighbor banged on my back door. Smoke was pouring out the cracks in my truck canopy. I immediately pulled everything out of the truck (not advised when a vehicle is burning, but that is hindsight). That dropsheet burned in the alley for hours until it was completely consumed. I even put it out, but it popped back to life. I have the melted boxes and blackened tools to remind me not to leave a situation where oil could leak onto cloth.
I was within five feet of a rag a painter set on a floor that soon after began smoldering before a quick witted carpenter grabbed it and flung it out the door. I don't know what was on it but it is a good thing people were there when it heated up. Don't take chances
One or two rags can absolutely catch on fire. Watco suspended making their product after a series of lawsuits in the 90s from shops catching on fire. They had to change the labeling before they could bring the product back a process which took over a year-and-a-half.
Glad you brought this real risk up. A lot of building fires have occurred because of this. When working with such oils I open up the rags I use and leave them flat on concrete overnight. I've also hung them from a clothesline.
If I have just a few small rags to deal with, I usually lay them out flat on the floor to dry. If I have a bunch, I have a small metal barrel (looks like a mini 55 gal drum), that I throw them into and burn them before I'm done for the day.
I had a contractor leave a single stain soaked rag on counter overnight and came the next morning to find a hole burned part way through the counter. Luckily it did not turn into a full blown fire.
Jim- great topic. I have had a single folding rag with Lacquer thinner spontaneous combust and it did not take very long - It was in a metal garbage can just outside my shop with no harm done. Since then I have spread out all my finish rag to dry in the open. Very good safety tip. We see a great deal of solvents used on all the wood working sites but not many safety are passed along. I like it. I would not want anyone to make my mistake.
On a similar topic, I was working on a major refurbishment of an old mansion house around 35 years ago. The carpenters were replacing all the doors with new hardwood bespoke made doors. They stacked maybe 6 doors flat on the marble floor over the Christmas break. The floor had under floor heating (a wet system) with maximum temperature of around 40 degrees centigrade. When we returned from Christmas, the pile of doors was smoking and all doors charred and were ruined and the marble floor had to be replaced as it was heat damaged. Not sure what preservatives were used on the doors but I think they were just primer’s.
I love how thorough your explanations are on whatever subject your videos are about. Always very logical. Cheers!
Don't forget that even if the cloth won't auto-ignite until 340C, other things in the trashcan might have a lower auto-ignition point. But... I wouldn't worry if you're somewhat careful
I'll take 'fully careful' over 'somewhat careful' , thanks....
Ahh, James- Great advice as always. I experienced such a fire some 20+ years ago: Tung oil, not a huge number of rags but enough... I now lay rags outside, spread out and safe. If I need to do otherwise I put them in a a sealed, specialized oil rag container that just eliminates the oxygen available for a fire. They're great albeit expensive. I can't thank you enough for the consistently fine advice. I rely only it and I utterly believe in the integrity of it. You've NEVER let me down.
Yes one or 2 rags will start a fire!! A member of our local tractor club was getting ready for our annual show. He had used boiled linseed oil on a few tool handles and tossed the rag to the back of the bench in the blacksmith display building. He came back the next mourning to charred mess on the back of the work bench. Luckily the fire went out before it burned the building down.
I have always spread out or hung up oily rags to dry, and never had a problem with heat buildup. In good weather, I even spread them out outside. As you said, by morning they’re stiff, and then I throw them in the garbage can. My wife even asks me before bed if there are any oily rags in the shop almost every night.
I just drop mine on the concrete floor away from anything combustable. There again I can't imagine ever having more than one oily rag at a time to deal with.
A fire spread prevention idea, use metal trash cans in shop areas.
This happened to my brother - stained a large slab of wood in the evening and the rags ignited in the morning. The fire marshal asked what he and my father were doing for the past 24 hours and when he said "staining wood" the marshal stopped right there and said "yup, third one this month". I still find it hard to wrap my head around, but now I'm more careful (I put rags in a sealed paint can). I rebuilt the burnt down husk of the house doing 80% of the work and no one got hurt so it wasn't so horrible after all.
When I use BLO, I take the oily rags outside and carefully dig a three foot deep hole and layer the bottom with about 6 inches of crushed gravel. I spread a rag as flat as possible across the gravel and cover it with 2 inches of fine play sand. I make multiple layers if I have to dispose of several rags.
Once all the rags are in the ground, I pour about 18 inches of fast setting concrete on top. After the concrete dries, I backfill with topsoil and replace my neighbor's sod so he won't notice.
Nah. Just kidding. I spread my oil soaked rags out and hang them on wire hangers to dry in a cool, well ventilated spot for a day or two. I make sure they're completely dry before tossing them in the regular trash.
Great and important tip! I was always taught this as a young lad. I usually toss my oily rag outside or separately on an open area on the shop floor. Just depends on how rushed I am, but never in the garbage.
So many times people disregard the dangers of spontaneous combustion, one home that we had just finished and the owners had moved into, one month later was gone due to careless use of Lindseed oil rags! The owners were using a rags to finish their garage closet doors and just three them in an open trashcan in the garage.
At another site, a friend of the boss came to refinish some artwork and when they were done, they took the rags and put them in the paper bag (from the store) and tossed it in the shop trash can and went to lunch.
I was eating at the shop and smelt something wrong. Sniffing around, my nose brought me to that trash can and inside , about to burst into flames was that closed bag of rags, aglow of the fire inside it!
Grabbing the bag quickly but carefully, I walked it out to the driveway and tossed it. As it hit the ground, it went, ' Poof' and a fireball flared upwards. Only minutes saved our shop from that fool's mistake and a shop being wasted.
Thanks for the facts. It is a serious consideration, but it's better to understand WHY so we can take appropriate action in our shops.
Lay them out flat to dry in the yard. After the oil is dry then I store in a metal can with a tight fitting lid. Can has water to soak the rags. My neighbor burned a good part of his house thinking a pile of oil soaked rags on his wood table on the deck was safe.
An important aspect is the driers in the finish. I once saw some smolder, a lacquer thinner on some paint spattered rags. It was an oil based paint, not fresh, but gooey. At the rim of each spatter an ember could be seen encircling it where the thinner lapped up to it. The driers from the paint were enough to oxidize the thinner in a single layer, in still air. Scary.
It was no-lead white linseed oil paint, and toluene for thinner.
Thank you for the clarification of spontaneous combustion and wood finishes. After seeing what happened to a local furniture refinishing business and subsequent fire marshal’s findings, I always, always place rags, paper towels etc, etc outdoor as individual pieces to dry or soak in water, then dispose. As is said “ an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure”
Had a dumpster fire from this, also threw some wet rags in the snow figuring on cleaning up later and they were smoking after 2 hrs. Now the second they are done I put them in the fire pit.
As usual, you covered everything, Stump. For everyone out there, this is no myth. It cost a friend of mine dearly. Smoke alarm saved him in the night. Rags used to apply linseed oil really will burn spontaneously. Just do what Stump says here and you will be OK.
I don't take a chance with any other finishes either. Spread those rags and any heat will dissipate.
Good follow-up. As a former volunteer firefighter I find myself a little paranoid about such things. Oily and anything not water based gets laid out flat outside the shop door at least for the night.
Been doing this for years. I soak them in water and leave them out to dry for a few weeks before dumping. BTW, this is my first comment but I have been watching your super informative videos for years now. I am a biomedical researcher but love woodwork...to me, you explain things the way we do when training someone to do benchwork. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for making this video. I know someone whom this has affected. Not sure what the exact circumstances were but the result was nearly losing his house. This can also happen with large amounts of essential oils like peppermint oil...etc.
I always spread every rag over the edge of a garbage can or other surface as shown in video. I don't worry what liquid it is; I just hang all rags to dry. Better safe than sorry is my motto.
28 years as a contractor and learned many lessons the hard way. I showed up at the office Monday morning and noticed the dumpster (against our building) had been visited by the local FD sometime that weekend. I later learned one of my employees had pitched several "dry" rags used for wipe-staining into the dumpster on Friday. We learned two lessons: 1) never keep a dumpster near a building, 2) place all rags used for solvents/oils/finishes into a 5-gallon bucket of water and then pitch the bucket of rags/water into dumpster on "dump-day". Never had a problem after that. FYI, every few years there is a new-construction house fire caused in my area by painters tossing stain-soaked rags into a pile or garbage can at end of shift.
Once while apartment living I cleaned up spilled vegetable oil with a large towel. I stupidly laundered it instead of throwing it away. I also was in no big hurry to fold so I had a basket of miscellaneous laundry in my living room for a while and I started to smell smoke. It took me a while to track it down to the basket and when I opened up the items I found a very very charred jumbled up smoldering towel. The oil obviously didn't and couldn't wash out and held in all of that commercial dryer heat that nearly lit the basket on fire.
Very lucky. Good thing you didn't put them in the dryer.
@@markbernier8434 The batch was washed and dried at a laundromat. I then chucked everything into a clothes basket and took it home. The towel was in the middle of everything so the heat was concentrated from the dryer.
Wow - that was CLOSE!
Very good point. Speaking for myself, I might be very disciplined about workshop but completely forget about something like mopping up vegetable oil in kitchen.
This is also why all the old farmers will tell you never stack wet hey in a barn. It has to be dry first to be safe.
happened to me raggs in plastic bin ignited in garage lucky wife smelt smoke got to garage and bin had completely melted. We were lucky bin was in an area away from anything that could catch fire put fire out with hose but it was just a lump of plastic once fire out. Very careful now with rags.
When my parents were refinishing their kitchen a number or years ago, my mom was staining the cabinets and left the rags (just a couple) in a pile during lunchtime. After lunch (maybe a few hours later), she went grab the rags to continue her work, and she burned her hands (not serious, but it was hot enough to hurt). That's how we learnt this lesson... Honestly, if you are not 100% sure what's in the product you are using, you should just spread the rags out to let them dry, preferably outside...
Excellent safety video James, thanks for sharing with everyone. Fred.
German Woodworkers will always tell You to keep oil soaked rags in an air tight bin or something simmilar. However, as said in this video and from my own experience, the used rags can also simply be spread out / hung up someplace not too hot, which will allow them to dry safely. Afterwards they can just be put to the side. No matter how Y'all do it tho, stay safe Folks.
We had a news report here in Phoenix a few days ago of a house that burned down and the cause was linseed oil soaked rags in the garage. fella seems to have just tossed them into a can and didnt spread them out like you suggested. it can indeed happen, BTW the house here was almost a total loss. Everyone got out safe, house is just "toast" Be safe my friends. Love the videos Stumpy, keep em coming
I was taught about this when I was ten or younger. I remember that you should spread any rags that have been soaked in linseed or paint thinner or spirits on a driveway, or some other sun soaked open area in order to allow the volatile oils to gas off as much as possible.
I think even olive oil on cotton in a washing machine or a hot enough dryer, especially a gas clothes dryer, is almost nearly as dangerous. Never throw oily clothes into a gas dryer.
This happened to some neighbors down the street a few years ago. He had stained the deck and thrown everything in the trash. Later on they went to the store and came back to find their entire house in flames.
I am a fire inspector and fire investigator, I am telling everyone right now, this happens, and is far easier than ya might think. I investigated a fire once at a massage parlor that happened from oil rags igniting after being washed because not all the oil was washed away from the rags and was preheated in the dryer before being piled on a table.
Weird... I was at a fire just a month ago at a massage place where oil soaked rags were piled in the dryer and left overnight. The next morning when the first employee showed up, the place was full of smoke. Most of the heat went up the dryer vent so it didn't trip the sprinklers but it did burn the washer up. Could have been so much worse. But the threat is real!
Agree have memories schorned sesections of sheet metalat 3 or 4 facilities where ihaved worked. From dumpster fires. Bigger the pile, bigger the fire.. however you dispose of your rugs. Further away from structures better off you are.
When I lived in Brooklyn a dumbass mechanic decided it was a good idea to wash his rags and dry them… just the drier got messed up
In my high school wood shop (back when schools still had industrial arts classes), there was a steel can that had a hinged lid that was weighted so it was held closed we were supposed to put those cloths into when we were finished with them
Justrite sell a metal oily waste can with a spring operated lid that will close if a fire starts.
Yes, it is a fireproof bin. They sell these at Lee Valley. Basically the bin is sealed so there isnt enough air to start the oxidation/a combustion. But personally, I prefer just to lay them flat. And I do that with all my finishing products so I dont have to remember if I should do it with one or not, they all get the same treatment.
I use just that sort of bucket. And it sits on concrete with nothing over it.
You're an amzing teacher James. This is great information as always. Thank you and peace be with you.
Just finished a little project with BLO wiped on. Left the rags to dry around the rim of a bucket. No problems at all. Thanks for the reminder, though.
This is a very real threat to you guys! I learned this this morning my wife woke me up to a rag smoking on my living room table and as soon as I got it outside it literally burst into flames in my hands. Be careful with your oily rags guys!! My whole house smells terrible and we nearly lost everything. I was using boiled linseed oil.
This happened during the spring semester of my senior year of high school. One of the industry classes decided the project they'd make and sell would be four inch puzzle cubes made on the band saw in the woodworking section of the shop building. (Not my class, as we were making leather bracelets to sell.) They threw oily rags into one of the metal cabinets, and this being Arizona, the rags caught fire. The building was okay, and most of the damage was smoke. My electronics class was next door to the woodshop, so all of our equipment had to be cleaned and we were moved to a classroom in a trailer for two weeks. I bought one of the cubes and had it for a long time. I think I accidentally dropped and broke it a few years back, so I'm not sure I still have it.
As for the bracelets, no fire, and I think each of us students ended up making six to seven dollars.
Thank you for all your safety videos, for non professionals like myself they are invaluable!!
Good advice. I remember my shop teacher talking about this 50 years ago. We have a fire proof trash can that we use for really smelly rags. They stay in there until they can dealt with them properly. If at all possible I will do what you do and hang them out to dry before throwing them away. All of my paints,varnishes and stains are kept in a metal cabinet, it’s as much for containing a fire should that happen as protecting them from flying sparks. I do a lot of different kinds of things so I am as likely to do welding as I will do wood working so I need to be extra careful.
I avoid any risk from this by using kitchen towel to apply wood finishes, and then setting light to the used sheets outside at the end of each woodworking session. Simple and effective...
Just bear in mind that burning anything at all outside in some areas (hey, I'm in CA) can still pose significant fire hazards. Just be careful, eh? :)
Happened to me. I now have oily waste cans strategically place around my shop and a flammables storage cabinet. There is so much flammable material in a wood shop, it just good practice.
This is a very reasonable and rational response, glad to see it
As always, another informative video. I had heard about this and I am always careful with my rags. I hang them up to dry and then throw them away. I thought it pertained to all types of oil, so glad you educated me.
I was told the same thing working in a machine shop about oil and greasy rags, not solvent laden, just oils and grease, mineral. There were special metal containers with lids to put them in. There has to be mechanics out there that have heard the same thing.
From a former firefighter I appreciate this information. Thanks a bunch
Just happened to someone on reddit like a week or two ago. Saw it on the woodworking subreddit. Jason from Fireball Tools showed it happen in an experiment too. I take any rag, towel, foam brush, or similar and throw them in the fire pit and burn them instead of throwing them away.
Hi James, This is the best safety tips video I have seen you post, and as normal you give a resolution to the potential problem.
Thank you very much.
Take care James.
Cheers, Huw
This is great information. I have spent the last 25 years in the automotive finishes industry and always recommend putting used solvent rags in a fireproof container. But I only thought that solvent based cleaners, reducers, etc. would spontaneously combust. I didn’t know that plant based liquids would do that. But I still take my Tung oil rags and lay them flat on my bench at the end of the day, just in case.
On a similar note, have you ever done a video on battery chargers that catch fire? I saw a couple post, on various woodworking groups, from different people that had this happen.
Great addition to the safety collection, James. I do this with anything that might have a volatile element, because it just builds the safety muscle memory. Bonus for me: for whatever reason, the previous owner of my shop (garage, but cars should live outside) painted the concrete with a sub-par 'epoxy' that I suspect was just outdoor grade latex... so the shop floor technique is slowly eating off that ugly stuff.
Well done for pointing out the dangers and suggesting effective ways of avoiding fires. I use a lot of linseed oil mixed with pine tar to treat outdoor wood and I always spread out the rags on a patch of gravel outside our workshop. I've heard enough stories of spontaneous combustion to make me cautious.
Thank you, James. I do it the way you do. I just checked the cost of disposal cans, the type with a foot operated lid and air tight sea, and they're just too expensive for the home shop.
I left an oily rag on a steel surface overnight and in the morning the rad had started smoldering and the steel surface was so hot you could touch it. It looked like it and had a short time before it was about to go up in flames on it's own.
Always so good with your harm reduction info, by far the most thorough channel as far as safety goes. You really do help with overall confidence. Well done and thanks to you, Sir.
It's sobering. Thankfully I'd come across thos on YT videos and got in the habit of throwing the rags and cloths on my concrete cellar steps.
Without YT, I'd have only thought thos was only boiled linseed oil, so a big thanks to content creators who do responsible videos.
The other important thing to keep in mind with linseed oil - it's not food safe. Part of the reason it's so prone to spontaneous combustion is it contains some heavy metal additives that speed the oxidation process. Pure linseed oil is safe, but "boiled" is not. So, for salad bowls, butcher blocks, and counter tops, make sure you get a finish that's food safe. Pure oil finishes without those additives are much less likely to spontaneously combust, but they also take several times longer to cure. The more you know....
I dont know about 'less likely to combust'....but then, if they can combust at all, that is enough for this pyrophobe!
The additives are lead based. Considering the the changes imposed to the paint and finishes industry many years ago, I wonder if lead is still used in boiled linseed oil. It would be interesting to ask a manufacturer. I wold still use pure linseed oil or even better USP mineral oil sold in pharmacys. (Sold as a laxative or skin lubricant)
Excellent research & explanation. Thank you!
Awesome. I'd wondered about this.
Good to know. Thanks for the constant flow of quality content!
Very helpful reminder. Always enjoy your video’s.
Rather than purchasing a fire can specifically for oily rags, I simply bought a cheap clean paint can from a big box store and seal them in every time I use one. The sealed can prevents oxygen from being present in enough concentration to allow combustion. I take them to my local landfill to dispose of them periodically. And yes, I advised them what I had and asked if it was ok to dispose of my oily rags in the landfill and was told there is no problem, as they cover the trash every night with soil before leaving.
Thank you for addressing this. Have a wonderful weekend. Safety first
Thank you SO much!! You outdone yourself again. Very humorous and instructive! This is so valuable to point out this danger. 👍 thanks so much.
Thanks for taking the time to make this tutorial and explain the dangers and how to prevent them.
Leaving used rags on your grill with the lid on until they fully dry is a great idea I had not heard until this video. Thank you.
Thanks for this video, I've been trying to find out more about this.
"Fire bombing Dresden"...I love your sarcasm. You do a great job addressing those concerned folks with just enough levity and seriousness.
I always lay any rags or paper towels that were used to apply any liquid out flat on the floor or hang them to dry. It is just a very good habit to have. Good video as this cannot be stressed often enough.
I usually hang my used rags from one of my benches when I'm done. Simple spring camp on the very tip does the job well and I've never had any heat build up (and trust me, I've checked).
Thanks for the warning, James, but I think it is understated and deserves further emphasis. A few years ago, I was helping our children with the remodeling of their new home. They had hired a local painter - who in turn hired day laborers - to do the decorating, including staining and varnishing new doors and woodwork. Unfortunately, one day I left before the paint crew had finished. When I returned the following morning, the house smelled as though there had been a fire and the living room ceiling was stained a smoky dark color. Just as you described, the oil-based stain rags had been left in a pile and they had spontaneously burst into flame during the night.
Fortunately, the painters had thrown the rags on a box of ceramic tiles. The cotton rags were burnt to dust. Although the tiles did not burn, nothing remained of the top and sides of the cardboard box. But, fortunately, the line of fire where the cardboard box met the floor did not burn long enough to ignite the 3/4" solid oak floor - and the rest of the house was spared. Even when confronted with the damage they had done, the painters insisted that spontaneous combustion was a myth, and it was not their fault. I hope that every woodworker who reads this true story will understand that spontaneous combustion is a real danger when working with common oil stains and similar products. I have used the single-layer drying method you showed without a problem for decades.
One thing to note is that the oxidation reaction speeds up with increased temperature. It's not just that oxidation creates heat, but if that heat can't dissipate it's a self-accelerating reaction. Heat leads to faster oxidation, which makes even more heat, which makes even faster oxidation, etc. in a positive feedback loop.
Right on!!! Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
I have some woodwork coming up in a few months and thought about applying a finish. This was very important to hear!
Had to come back and re-watch this buddy, using some on a mailbox post I built for my mom...... thanks again for the great videos!!!