*Sign up for The Blues Transformation Workshop* tinyurl.com/BluesTransformation A 4-week program of in-depth, hands-on instruction and feedback to build real skill and confidence. Transform your guitar, play from the heart!
5:50 So a G# Major would be a borrowed non-diatonic chord in this instance and because it works in the context of the song then it's triad/chord tones are fair game in that part of the solo - is that correct? Is that what you are saying? In a nutshell the point of this video is to mind your triads/chord tones at the beginning and the end of your phrases?
@ Hi! That's it. G# is a resting chord used in the song, so its chord tones are fair game. (The 3rd is particularly strong in this instance, but it's beyond the scope of this lesson.)
Years ago, a friend of mine told me I'd never be any good because I saw the fretboard, when I should be trying to hear it. He definitely meant it as insult, but eventually it made me a much more musical player. Point being, I stopped counting and was able to feel things more
I'm definitely favouring your way of teaching no matter what other possible explanations some offer. Excellent but also beneficial to my playing and visual. Thanks
I just want to add - the guitar Jimmy used to play the lead guitar solo of Stairway to Heaven is a Fender Telecaster. It was given to him by Jeff Beck.
I'm not overthinking - that's the point, it's a chord tone. That's what this video is about. I can't tell you how many students insist on fitting notes with scales they're using.
@@gazzie12000 Every chord has three principal tones. If a progression has three chords, now we’re trying to mentally keep track of 9 chord tones? That’s too much for most people. Keeping track of the root note of each chord works fine. When the chord changes to F, maybe try to land on an F note.
@@rexxengineering8333 Mentally keep track of 9 chord tones. Yes, and more if there are more than 3 chords or if you are also thinking of 6th, 7ths, 9ths, flat 5s etc etc. But their relationships are very very easy to see on a fretboard if you know the chord shapes and roots already. eg if you know the root then the 3rd or flat 3rd relationship, and where it falls on the fretboard is dead easy to remember. I'm a guitar teacher, and have been for over 40 years. It's not that hard, trust me. To start with you just need to learn to visualize triads, or even more basic, the full chords on the fretboard and then play any of those notes as well as any scale you are using. It's actually pretty simple, and soon becomes second nature, like using a scale - but yes takes a bit of practice. Like you say, it is too much for most people, but they think it's harder than it really is. The ones who bother to learn this will be much much better for it. No longer tied to scales which are by their nature quite limiting, especially if the song is non diatonic. 😀
@@gazzie12000 Yes, it's not difficult. It just takes doing it a few times. Many chord tones overlap also. (F = FAC ... Am = ACE ... that's 4 notes, not 6. And that insight - understanding F is very, very similar to Am is super-helpful.) And who says you have to target everything at once? Nobody. Try targeting F on F, then A, then C ... listen to their sounds. Ultimately you play by ear anyway. In any event, noodling aimlessly all over a scale sounds horrible. This isn't the only way to do it (Learning melodies from singers by ear is another method that works.), but it's an easy way to do it.
Very helpful video Mark. I knew there was a formula these greats use for melodic solos tying into chord changes. This demo with chord overlays is perfect for me at this stage. Btw, love Seger and Siver Bullet, lots of great melodic solos. Also always loved the Cars solos, especially in Just What I Needed. Well done sir.
Thanks Mark for laying that much magic on the table for us to consume. Basically, the backing track for the lead in Stairway is A... G... F...G... repeat, right? So, he's hitting the F because that's where the John Paul went. It's still diatonic, but if the rhythm section didn't go there, the F sounds horribly out of place. Play in context, right? I"ve been playing forever and have basically missed the whole thing about playing the notes in the chord that's there. Thanks again.
🎉chord tones I do on piano and hadn’t applied it to guitar solos, if I only knew the fret board better to land on those! And to map out the chords as well , but at least it’s narrowed down to this is all* you really need to nail it down perfectly with no random noodling around. Brilliant!!! 🎉😊
Yes, it works the same way. Starting with triads helps many people once they're on this path. They're small and easy to find - and extend once you get that. Glad you enjoyed the video.
This is exactly what I was taught - it's classic CAGED playing. Basically, it's a C major arpeggio in the F position. So, when the rhythm guitar hits F, Jimmy hits that F note. He does at different points all the way through the solo - the E major run shortly after ends on F, but it's that initial 'out of the blue' F that is utterly memorable.
MARK, When you add notes outside of the pentatonic scale its called Hexatonic. There is a big difference between playing Hexatonic scales VS playing with the changes which you should try to find a bunch of guitar solos that use Hexatonic scales to make a video lesson.Hextaonic scale can mean just adding one extra note that is NOT in the minor pentatonic scale or major pentatonic scale. SRV, Clapton etc often use Mixolydian #9 scale or Mixolydian b9 scale which is the Mixo-Blues formula scale which is a NONATonic scale which you should do a video lesson about when SRV, Clapton,etc use the Mixolydian #9 scale & Mixolydian b9 mostly its very the V7 chords with the 5th in the bass which SRV uses in texas flood and others its V7/5th in the bass a texas blues chord. The songs in your video less as just playing with the changes which it might sound to others like its a Hexatonic tonality, it tricks the ears. The main point is which scale degree you're ending the phrase, is it ending on which scale degree the 1,b2,2,3b,3,4,b5,5,6,b6,b7,7 because this will define the key/mode/tonality of the phrase on which ending note you land on. Most Phrases ending notes are 1 root note tonic,b3rd or 3rd or 5th but try ending a phrase other than the 1 tonic, M3 or b3 or 5th which causes the phrasing to have a delay resolution, question marks, commas, punctuations, etc this creates sentences in your lines. TAG-lines are the ending part of the phrase which most 80's metal riffs will repeat the riff but use different Tag-lines for different phrasing.
Yes, that's what this video is about - playing with the changes. IMHO, it's WAY more important than scale nomenclature - if one is interested in playing, that is. (As opposed to talking about scales and theory.) You should do a video on what you're talking about here.
@@MarkZabel I don't have the camera equipment or the editing software I wish I had money to do so maybe one day I will. What I'm saying is more people think when a guitarist is playing with the changes = hexatonic scale because of the added notes that aren't in the minor pentatonic or major pentatonic scale. Its tricking the listener to thinking its hexatonic like the Don Felders Hotel California guitar solo lands on the M7 in the 1st phrase which is unusual to land and end on the M7 which most people are going to think what scale is he using giving that hexatonic tonality. If you listen to metal riffs in the 80's its AAB or AAAB the B is the TAG-line so they often will keep changing altering the B section for phrasing grammar lines. In guitar solos its mostly AOL melodic rock that will also use AAB or AAAB in the guitar solo phrasing its rare for rock guitarist to do this but like Journey guitar solos, Boston Riffs are theme based AAB or AAAB, Metallic Enter Sandman riff is AAAB, GNR November Rain guitar solo is AAB AAAB phrasing. If you look at these guitar solos and riffs as AAB or AAAB phrasing as the formula or skeleton framework to teach in a video lesson for others to learn from.
@MarkZabel when Jimmy Page lands ends on that F note to most people they think it sounds angular, the same when don Felder lands ends on G# note the M7 in hotel California it's sounds "angular". Alice in chains them bones guitar solo has some angular notes. Alice in chains man in the box guitar solo is a master class of phrasing by "dividing" each small phrase into a talking speech but at the end of the day it's sounds tasty. Very well crafted guitar solos of phrasing that the 80s and early 90s guitar solos were melodic like Metallica unforgiven guitar solo bob rock produced a well crafted guitar solo of phrases
Jimmy was following the chord changes of the rhythm guitar for the song in the opening lead. He begins on A and ends of F because the rhythm guitar chords are Am GM FM. I'm sure you know this, but for beginning guitarists this is called a "landing note" - you land on the the note at the same time the rhythm guitarist is playing the chord of that note.
As you mentioned, the Am G F progression is the secret. Sure the Am starts you off and goes through G to F, the tasty bit is to catch the F, and you can use C A and of course F to build a melody. Page does some nice phrases to position/move the voice of the guitar to reach that crescendo leading to Plant's high voice at the end. He did stitch it together as the story goes,but used the best takes. Legend. A trick I've learned (50 years plus) is you can create new scales from chord progressions (and that means any weird progressions not slotting into what is expected). Try it. It is a great exercise. Cheers Mark.
Very helpful thx. When I write originals, I try to singing or humming basic melodies in my mind to ‘outline’ the notes of the solo first. Just to get the basic ‘road map. Then add bends and tension-resolution notes and frills after. [ps I am not a great guitarist]. I bet Elliot Easton and Jimmy did the same, because they have excellent ears for melody. And it seems like they were insistent on adding something unique and interesting and making a memorable melody of theirs? They made sure you that the listener came away being able to ‘sing’ their guitar leads. My two cents anyway. Cheers.
Thank you! That's an excellent way to do it, and it's what I do too. (I also practice playing what I sing and singing what I play.) I find that more helpful than theory. BUT ... very, very few students I've taught are willing to do it. That's when alternatives like this (chord tone emphasis) come into play, as singers generally will end on strong notes of chords. That's not always true, of course, but it's often true. In any event, glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks!
So funny. People on music forums have crucified me for saying exactly this. That that end not of the phrase in Stariway was just amazing, and that most musicians would never think to do that…it still blows me away. Thanks for explaining it!
My pleasure. If you look here you'll see many comments to the effect of "That's just common sense." Sure, but then why is it so uncommonly done? In any event, thanks for the kind comment!
I was jimmy pages guitar teacher all throughout the making of the zeppelin albums and I can remember telling him why he should end on that note and not another. He was s’aiment it wouldn’t work but after encouraging him a bit well the rest is history. I was responsible for most of his creative techniques
Separate thought: the Just What I Needed solos are so unique because of the chord progression alternating between ending on the G# versus ending on the A, requiring the solo to follow this "half step" shift. In my opinion, that's what made Elliott Easton and this song so genius. I'm actually curious if that progression was in Ocasek original version of the song that he brought to the band, or if Easton might have added it. Because it doesn't seem like something that occurred in a lot of Cars songs, and it's pretty fancy :) (i.e. i could see it coming from a Berklee player's mind).
It's a nice idea - same one as in Hotel California really. The "flamenco" progression: Am, G, F, E (E-major, not Em) or VI, V, IV, III is fairly common. It's all over Eastern European music and leaks into pop music too. For example, Sultans of Swing and Stray Cat Strut. Just What I Needed uses those chords (plus the 1) but doesn't play them in that order. So it feels like a jump to the G# (the III major) and it stands out a bit more. Just as it does in Hotel California. In each case the key solo note to play is the 3rd of the chord. Why? Because it's exactly what makes the chord progression different. The 3-major instead of the 3-minor. So playing that major 3rd emphasizes the chord is being followed.
Hi Mark. I only just discovered you and I really like this video and I like what you said. However, I'm asking a genuine question... do you like your guitar tone in this video? Im puzzled a bit by it.
I know you said you don’t need to learn jazz but this approach to soloing is called (using) target notes. And which notes do they like to target most? The 3rds and 7ths of the chord on beat one (course they’ll play on the and of 4 to anticipate the change.) That’s why in the Cars tune he’s playing a B#. I know you said C but that’s not right. A G# major chord is spelled G# B# D#, not G# C D#. Enharmonic or not, it has to be spelled that way. Great lesson, 🍻 mate!
That's discussed very clearly in this video. IMHO, knowing that it's A Aeolian (or A minor) usually leads to meandering play - playing through scales without regard for changes. That's also discussed in the video.
I never really learned scales as part of an exercise, being a mostly untrained player. I learned them only from the standpoint of understanding musical theory. But when i played (and still play this way) it's always just by ear. Interestingly, it means i would never have tried to improvise over a scale the way you demo in the first example or old way. I would have automatically emphasized the chordal patterns because that's what the ear forced me to gravitate towards. So, while i never developed the speed or technique of someone who knows the scales from a high dexterity perspective, i was fortunate to naturally play solos that "fit" whatever i was playing along with.
You're lucky. Many people start out on pentatonic scales and are told (nowadays) that's all that one needs. I never really played like "the old way" I showed. But I hear people sounding like that all the time. "What scale are you using?" is probably the most common question I get in my live streams. The answer is "none" and "a bunch and more" ... not very helpful, but truthful. "None" while improvising and "a bunch and more" when practicing/composing. I almost never use a single scale - at least not one I'm aware of.
Hooooooooooly moly! I was sure at the beginning you were playing licks from Joe Walsh and Don Felder. Didn't click that it was Stairway To Heven at all. I'm sure those exact runs are in Hotel California. I've played both Felder's and Walsh's parts before. (I've never tried to play Stairway to Heaven).
I prefer to think of it as changing from A minor to D minor when he hits that F note. D minor pentatonic has the same notes as A minor pentatonic except it has an F instead of an E. Whenever a piece of music gives you "chills" like that it's almost always a key change. But it's genius to throw it in at the end of a phrase like that. It sounds like A minor, but then the final note *reveals* the true key is D minor, and it astonishes the listener.
What line from which solo do you mean? There are a couple in "Badge", but they're of the "just mix the major and minor pentatonic" variety. Memorable lines, and instructive for sure.
All makes sense, but for me personally, this would only work for a pre-composed solo. All of Elliot Easton’s solos were pre-composed (I know that’s not true for Jimmy Page - no idea about Don Felder). There is no way that during on the fly improvisation, I would be able to think about the chord tones and where they are in a scale and try to emphasize those notes. I do try to remember where the I, IV and V notes are during blues and hit those note more. But even that is hard for me when improvising on the fly. Aren’t we supposed to play with feel? I can’t do that when thinking about where certain chord tones are in a scale. I have better luck focusing on rhythm and phrasing to try to make a solo sound almost like someone is speaking words.
Fair enough. It's not difficult to do. I don't ever think about chord tones and scales when I improvise. I only think of melody (and rhythm within that melody). But in practice (not the same as performance), I can work on hitting the root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, etc. That gets into one's ears just as any other thing would. The big plus to this thinking is that when you do so, you begin to "feel" the changes more. BTW, it isn't the only thing to do on guitar. Plenty of other things to work on. (and have fun with!)
If you played with other musicans - you will discover that when soloing you target a note that fits with a chord progression where it starts and finish .. Jimmy learned that trick to aim for the F note through experience ..
I think perhaps you didn't hear and see what I said and displayed. If you watch 0:50 to 2:20 you'll see it's *exactly* what I said and displayed. (1. That C major and Am share the same notes, and 2. F is not in the Am Pentatonic)
You should try some Allan Holdsworth, Pat Martino and maybe some OPETH or any Euro Prog or Prog Metal! Page was a good player but these guys are amazing. As far as genius goes Classical composers and Jazz composers are where it's at.
As mentioned by @GuitarSaxHammond the first phrase of the solo ends (resolves) on F because the rhythm part has moved to F. THAT's the Genius! The song is in Am /Cmaj and F is indeed one of the notes in that scale. If the rhythm part was different and rested on another note, Jimmy would've resolved to that other note. You're right, but the explanation could start with the simple fact of the current chord, then explain the primary key the song is in and the associated scale (and pattern) where all the chords and solo notes are coming from.
As for Stairway to heaven lead. How could you not go to the "F" note when the progression hits "F" at that time. Just like "Oh That Smell" lead break the "F" is right there. Of course, Jimmy Page is brilliant, but he is not brilliant going to the "F", he was using common sense.
That's kind of the point here, right? It's not genius, it's learned and obvious. Players today (and years ago too) are taught - "use the Am pentatonic" or "all you need to know it the pentatonic scale".
Good stuff. Yeah. The more one digs into Page's playing, the more those subtle choices in notes begins to open our tiny heads into his universe. There are so many phrases like that in his oeuvre. The near decade of being a studio musician and playing on soundtracks like Gold Finger and soling for Tom Jones, was an accomplishment in itself that most would be telling their grandchildren about. But no. He kept digging deeper. Never settling for the obvious. Pushing himself and three others with a vision that would overtake music like no other. A reporter once asked him while backstage, how did you become so great? "Just believe in yourself." - Jimmy Page
Sh!t, I wish I could play even like the solo starting at 3:00. If I could do even that I would be ecstatic. I wouldn't feel like I was done but it would be something. We need periodic victories, however small, to keep at it. Even though I know all 5 positions of pentatonic and blues fluently and decent on major/minor I can't play lead worth a damn.
@@MarkZabel You are most welcome. I really like your approach to teaching, did you see my comment under your pinned comment? If I was gunning for as reply it was to that one. Thanks for what you do.
@ @MarkZabel 5:50 So a G# Major would be a borrowed non-diatonic chord in this instance and because it works in the context of the song then it's triad/chord tones are fair game in that part of the solo - is that correct? Is that what you are saying? In a nutshell the point of this video is to mind your triads/chord tones at the beginning and the end of your phrases?
@ Yes, though you're complicating it a bit. It's a chord that's used in the song and it's a resting chord - so you can play its chord tones. (The "borrowed chord from non-diatonic ..." language is not needed.)
C is the dominant 5th of the F chord. It is the strongest note he could land on over an F. Landing on a B would have been a dissonant dim5. It would make no sense to land on a B using basic music theory... Lead guitar playing is not about scales it is about chords.
C major is the key. A is the tonal center. Standard music theory is ridiculously redundant. What is the key defined by the notes A, B, C, D, E, F, G? It's C of course. And the triad-based chords generated from it are Am, Bdim, C, Dm, Em, F, G. (No matter where you start generating them.) It certainly has a lot to do with the harmony being played here.
@@MarkZabel C Major is C Major, it's tonic is C. A minor is A minor, it's tonic is A. Talking about C is confusing and becomes the source of many people's confusion about modes. The harmony being played is A minor.
@@whatilearnttoday5295 Okay, so it's Am in your world. Really? Tell me the chord progression here. What is it? Use the Nashville Number System. And I never said C was A. (Note: A is not Am.)
Page, Beck, Clapton,Hendrix, Harrison, Peter Green, Mick Taylor, et al knew nothing of theory and most could not tell you the name of chords. Ears and feel with 10,000 hours of mistakes made them great
Lol wtf is this really? The Beatles played Epiphone and many modern players, Gary Clark Jr comes to mind.. I mean it’s good enough for them but it’s not good enough for your basement? Lol comical
@@stonecole4703The Beatles played real epiphones not cheap Chinese JUNK like his. If you're going to post a video on Jimmy Page you need a real Les Paul sunburst standard. What an insult to Jimmy Page. Thank you for showing your ignorance about the subject
*Sign up for The Blues Transformation Workshop* tinyurl.com/BluesTransformation
A 4-week program of in-depth, hands-on instruction and feedback to build real skill and confidence. Transform your guitar, play from the heart!
5:50 So a G# Major would be a borrowed non-diatonic chord in this instance and because it works in the context of the song then it's triad/chord tones are fair game in that part of the solo - is that correct? Is that what you are saying? In a nutshell the point of this video is to mind your triads/chord tones at the beginning and the end of your phrases?
@ Hi! That's it. G# is a resting chord used in the song, so its chord tones are fair game. (The 3rd is particularly strong in this instance, but it's beyond the scope of this lesson.)
Years ago, a friend of mine told me I'd never be any good because I saw the fretboard, when I should be trying to hear it. He definitely meant it as insult, but eventually it made me a much more musical player. Point being, I stopped counting and was able to feel things more
What a great lesson !
Thanks! Glad you liked it.
I'm definitely favouring your way of teaching no matter what other possible explanations some offer. Excellent but also beneficial to my playing and visual. Thanks
Thanks. Yes, other explanations work. In the end it's what you can use. Thank you for watching and for the kind comment!
I just want to add - the guitar Jimmy used to play the lead guitar solo of Stairway to Heaven is a Fender Telecaster. It was given to him by Jeff Beck.
You’re overthinking that F note in the Stairway solo. It’s simple, he landed on the root note of the F chord.
I'm not overthinking - that's the point, it's a chord tone. That's what this video is about. I can't tell you how many students insist on fitting notes with scales they're using.
Er, that's exactly what Mark said. Use the chord tones of the underlying chords.
@@gazzie12000 Every chord has three principal tones. If a progression has three chords, now we’re trying to mentally keep track of 9 chord tones? That’s too much for most people. Keeping track of the root note of each chord works fine. When the chord changes to F, maybe try to land on an F note.
@@rexxengineering8333 Mentally keep track of 9 chord tones. Yes, and more if there are more than 3 chords or if you are also thinking of 6th, 7ths, 9ths, flat 5s etc etc. But their relationships are very very easy to see on a fretboard if you know the chord shapes and roots already. eg if you know the root then the 3rd or flat 3rd relationship, and where it falls on the fretboard is dead easy to remember. I'm a guitar teacher, and have been for over 40 years. It's not that hard, trust me. To start with you just need to learn to visualize triads, or even more basic, the full chords on the fretboard and then play any of those notes as well as any scale you are using. It's actually pretty simple, and soon becomes second nature, like using a scale - but yes takes a bit of practice. Like you say, it is too much for most people, but they think it's harder than it really is. The ones who bother to learn this will be much much better for it. No longer tied to scales which are by their nature quite limiting, especially if the song is non diatonic. 😀
@@gazzie12000 Yes, it's not difficult. It just takes doing it a few times. Many chord tones overlap also. (F = FAC ... Am = ACE ... that's 4 notes, not 6. And that insight - understanding F is very, very similar to Am is super-helpful.) And who says you have to target everything at once? Nobody. Try targeting F on F, then A, then C ... listen to their sounds. Ultimately you play by ear anyway.
In any event, noodling aimlessly all over a scale sounds horrible. This isn't the only way to do it (Learning melodies from singers by ear is another method that works.), but it's an easy way to do it.
I love your approach. thank you!
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
Very helpful video Mark.
I knew there was a formula these greats use for melodic solos tying into chord changes.
This demo with chord overlays is perfect for me at this stage.
Btw, love Seger and Siver Bullet, lots of great melodic solos.
Also always loved the Cars solos, especially in Just What I Needed.
Well done sir.
Glad you liked it! And thank you ... I'm a big Seger fan (from Detroit, so...)
Nicely presented Mark, I'm sure this is an a-ha moment for many. Thanks for your contributions to the music community.
Thank you so much!
Thanks Mark for laying that much magic on the table for us to consume. Basically, the backing track for the lead in Stairway is A... G... F...G... repeat, right? So, he's hitting the F because that's where the John Paul went. It's still diatonic, but if the rhythm section didn't go there, the F sounds horribly out of place. Play in context, right? I"ve been playing forever and have basically missed the whole thing about playing the notes in the chord that's there. Thanks again.
Yes, you've got it!
"...and you didn't even need to learn jazz." Great line.
This vid actually helped me understand the scale itself
Cool. Whatever works!
Great stuff here
Thanks!
🎉chord tones I do on piano and hadn’t applied it to guitar solos, if I only knew the fret board better to land on those! And to map out the chords as well , but at least it’s narrowed down to this is all* you really need to nail it down perfectly with no random noodling around. Brilliant!!! 🎉😊
Yes, it works the same way. Starting with triads helps many people once they're on this path. They're small and easy to find - and extend once you get that. Glad you enjoyed the video.
Really insightful. I struggle with this same thing. Especially trying to hit chord tones for chords that are flying by
This is exactly what I was taught - it's classic CAGED playing. Basically, it's a C major arpeggio in the F position. So, when the rhythm guitar hits F, Jimmy hits that F note. He does at different points all the way through the solo - the E major run shortly after ends on F, but it's that initial 'out of the blue' F that is utterly memorable.
MARK, When you add notes outside of the pentatonic scale its called Hexatonic. There is a big difference between playing Hexatonic scales VS playing with the changes which you should try to find a bunch of guitar solos that use Hexatonic scales to make a video lesson.Hextaonic scale can mean just adding one extra note that is NOT in the minor pentatonic scale or major pentatonic scale. SRV, Clapton etc often use Mixolydian #9 scale or Mixolydian b9 scale which is the Mixo-Blues formula scale which is a NONATonic scale which you should do a video lesson about when SRV, Clapton,etc use the Mixolydian #9 scale & Mixolydian b9 mostly its very the V7 chords with the 5th in the bass which SRV uses in texas flood and others its V7/5th in the bass a texas blues chord. The songs in your video less as just playing with the changes which it might sound to others like its a Hexatonic tonality, it tricks the ears. The main point is which scale degree you're ending the phrase, is it ending on which scale degree the 1,b2,2,3b,3,4,b5,5,6,b6,b7,7 because this will define the key/mode/tonality of the phrase on which ending note you land on. Most Phrases ending notes are 1 root note tonic,b3rd or 3rd or 5th but try ending a phrase other than the 1 tonic, M3 or b3 or 5th which causes the phrasing to have a delay resolution, question marks, commas, punctuations, etc this creates sentences in your lines. TAG-lines are the ending part of the phrase which most 80's metal riffs will repeat the riff but use different Tag-lines for different phrasing.
Yes, that's what this video is about - playing with the changes. IMHO, it's WAY more important than scale nomenclature - if one is interested in playing, that is. (As opposed to talking about scales and theory.)
You should do a video on what you're talking about here.
@@MarkZabel I don't have the camera equipment or the editing software I wish I had money to do so maybe one day I will. What I'm saying is more people think when a guitarist is playing with the changes = hexatonic scale because of the added notes that aren't in the minor pentatonic or major pentatonic scale. Its tricking the listener to thinking its hexatonic like the Don Felders Hotel California guitar solo lands on the M7 in the 1st phrase which is unusual to land and end on the M7 which most people are going to think what scale is he using giving that hexatonic tonality. If you listen to metal riffs in the 80's its AAB or AAAB the B is the TAG-line so they often will keep changing altering the B section for phrasing grammar lines. In guitar solos its mostly AOL melodic rock that will also use AAB or AAAB in the guitar solo phrasing its rare for rock guitarist to do this but like Journey guitar solos, Boston Riffs are theme based AAB or AAAB, Metallic Enter Sandman riff is AAAB, GNR November Rain guitar solo is AAB AAAB phrasing. If you look at these guitar solos and riffs as AAB or AAAB phrasing as the formula or skeleton framework to teach in a video lesson for others to learn from.
@MarkZabel when Jimmy Page lands ends on that F note to most people they think it sounds angular, the same when don Felder lands ends on G# note the M7 in hotel California it's sounds "angular". Alice in chains them bones guitar solo has some angular notes. Alice in chains man in the box guitar solo is a master class of phrasing by "dividing" each small phrase into a talking speech but at the end of the day it's sounds tasty. Very well crafted guitar solos of phrasing that the 80s and early 90s guitar solos were melodic like Metallica unforgiven guitar solo bob rock produced a well crafted guitar solo of phrases
@@waynegram8907 Ok. Thanks.
@@waynegram8907How do you know what most people think?
Man I’ve played guitar for over 30 years.. never considered this!
Took me years to learn to play the changes within the scale...great advice!
Thanks!
Awesome video have a good weekend mark
Thanks brother. You too!
Jimmy was following the chord changes of the rhythm guitar for the song in the opening lead. He begins on A and ends of F because the rhythm guitar chords are Am GM FM. I'm sure you know this, but for beginning guitarists this is called a "landing note" - you land on the the note at the same time the rhythm guitarist is playing the chord of that note.
Jazz cats call them target notes. Never heard landing note, but makes sense as a description. Something new everyday!
🍻 mate!
Mike Bloomfield is a good teacher on how to play through the changes.
Agree.
As you mentioned, the Am G F progression is the secret. Sure the Am starts you off and goes through G to F, the tasty bit is to catch the F, and you can use C A and of course F to build a melody. Page does some nice phrases to position/move the voice of the guitar to reach that crescendo leading to Plant's high voice at the end. He did stitch it together as the story goes,but used the best takes. Legend. A trick I've learned (50 years plus) is you can create new scales from chord progressions (and that means any weird progressions not slotting into what is expected). Try it. It is a great exercise. Cheers Mark.
Very helpful thx. When I write originals, I try to singing or humming basic melodies in my mind to ‘outline’ the notes of the solo first. Just to get the basic ‘road map. Then add bends and tension-resolution notes and frills after. [ps I am not a great guitarist]. I bet Elliot Easton and Jimmy did the same, because they have excellent ears for melody. And it seems like they were insistent on adding something unique and interesting and making a memorable melody of theirs? They made sure you that the listener came away being able to ‘sing’ their guitar leads. My two cents anyway. Cheers.
Thank you! That's an excellent way to do it, and it's what I do too. (I also practice playing what I sing and singing what I play.) I find that more helpful than theory. BUT ... very, very few students I've taught are willing to do it. That's when alternatives like this (chord tone emphasis) come into play, as singers generally will end on strong notes of chords. That's not always true, of course, but it's often true.
In any event, glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks!
So funny. People on music forums have crucified me for saying exactly this. That that end not of the phrase in Stariway was just amazing, and that most musicians would never think to do that…it still blows me away. Thanks for explaining it!
My pleasure. If you look here you'll see many comments to the effect of "That's just common sense." Sure, but then why is it so uncommonly done?
In any event, thanks for the kind comment!
I was jimmy pages guitar teacher all throughout the making of the zeppelin albums and I can remember telling him why he should end on that note and not another. He was s’aiment it wouldn’t work but after encouraging him a bit well the rest is history. I was responsible for most of his creative techniques
😂
LOL! Nice try!
Nice use of non words also!
@ he was a very good student
And obviously a very good teacher, credit where credit is due, a brill combination of talents and personalities no doubt.
Thank you for your service. 🫡
Question, what’s your favorite pedal(s)?
I like the Nobels ODR.
Separate thought: the Just What I Needed solos are so unique because of the chord progression alternating between ending on the G# versus ending on the A, requiring the solo to follow this "half step" shift. In my opinion, that's what made Elliott Easton and this song so genius. I'm actually curious if that progression was in Ocasek original version of the song that he brought to the band, or if Easton might have added it. Because it doesn't seem like something that occurred in a lot of Cars songs, and it's pretty fancy :) (i.e. i could see it coming from a Berklee player's mind).
It's a nice idea - same one as in Hotel California really. The "flamenco" progression: Am, G, F, E (E-major, not Em) or VI, V, IV, III is fairly common. It's all over Eastern European music and leaks into pop music too. For example, Sultans of Swing and Stray Cat Strut.
Just What I Needed uses those chords (plus the 1) but doesn't play them in that order. So it feels like a jump to the G# (the III major) and it stands out a bit more. Just as it does in Hotel California.
In each case the key solo note to play is the 3rd of the chord. Why? Because it's exactly what makes the chord progression different. The 3-major instead of the 3-minor. So playing that major 3rd emphasizes the chord is being followed.
Hi Mark. I only just discovered you and I really like this video and I like what you said. However, I'm asking a genuine question... do you like your guitar tone in this video? Im puzzled a bit by it.
Thanks. The tone is okay. I didn't isolate the vocal microphone, so you're picking up that a bit in the guitar tone.
I know you said you don’t need to learn jazz but this approach to soloing is called (using) target notes. And which notes do they like to target most? The 3rds and 7ths of the chord on beat one (course they’ll play on the and of 4 to anticipate the change.) That’s why in the Cars tune he’s playing a B#.
I know you said C but that’s not right. A G# major chord is spelled G# B# D#, not G# C D#. Enharmonic or not, it has to be spelled that way.
Great lesson, 🍻 mate!
TL/DR
you can break the "rules" of scales
(AFTER you sorta learn them!)
(It's OK to include "wrong notes" if/when it works/sounds good!)
Simple A Aeolian mode for stairway solo ( chord changes Am G and F are all in the key of C / Am
That's discussed very clearly in this video. IMHO, knowing that it's A Aeolian (or A minor) usually leads to meandering play - playing through scales without regard for changes. That's also discussed in the video.
I never really learned scales as part of an exercise, being a mostly untrained player. I learned them only from the standpoint of understanding musical theory. But when i played (and still play this way) it's always just by ear. Interestingly, it means i would never have tried to improvise over a scale the way you demo in the first example or old way. I would have automatically emphasized the chordal patterns because that's what the ear forced me to gravitate towards. So, while i never developed the speed or technique of someone who knows the scales from a high dexterity perspective, i was fortunate to naturally play solos that "fit" whatever i was playing along with.
You're lucky. Many people start out on pentatonic scales and are told (nowadays) that's all that one needs. I never really played like "the old way" I showed. But I hear people sounding like that all the time. "What scale are you using?" is probably the most common question I get in my live streams. The answer is "none" and "a bunch and more" ... not very helpful, but truthful. "None" while improvising and "a bunch and more" when practicing/composing. I almost never use a single scale - at least not one I'm aware of.
Hooooooooooly moly! I was sure at the beginning you were playing licks from Joe Walsh and Don Felder. Didn't click that it was Stairway To Heven at all. I'm sure those exact runs are in Hotel California. I've played both Felder's and Walsh's parts before. (I've never tried to play Stairway to Heaven).
I prefer to think of it as changing from A minor to D minor when he hits that F note. D minor pentatonic has the same notes as A minor pentatonic except it has an F instead of an E. Whenever a piece of music gives you "chills" like that it's almost always a key change. But it's genius to throw it in at the end of a phrase like that. It sounds like A minor, but then the final note *reveals* the true key is D minor, and it astonishes the listener.
The next issue is when to emphasize the 1, 3, or 5 on the chord change.
There's your Clapton, too.
What line from which solo do you mean? There are a couple in "Badge", but they're of the "just mix the major and minor pentatonic" variety. Memorable lines, and instructive for sure.
@MarkZabel Nothing specific, but sounded stylized. I don't think he did it as much, but it, to me, was rather Claptonesque.
@@Cobra-ky9bt 👍
Hey Mark, why didn't you go into the (looks around fearfully for Don Henley, then whispers):
_third example?_
Great video, thanks for sharing!
LOL, you got it!
Ending on pentatonic note still ok l but other has different feeling . How he chose ? By trying both .. many times ? 🤔🤔🤷♂️🤷♂️
That's what this video is about. How you can learn to choose between strong and weaker notes. Watch it to the end. It's only 6 minutes.
All makes sense, but for me personally, this would only work for a pre-composed solo. All of Elliot Easton’s solos were pre-composed (I know that’s not true for Jimmy Page - no idea about Don Felder). There is no way that during on the fly improvisation, I would be able to think about the chord tones and where they are in a scale and try to emphasize those notes. I do try to remember where the I, IV and V notes are during blues and hit those note more. But even that is hard for me when improvising on the fly. Aren’t we supposed to play with feel? I can’t do that when thinking about where certain chord tones are in a scale. I have better luck focusing on rhythm and phrasing to try to make a solo sound almost like someone is speaking words.
Fair enough. It's not difficult to do. I don't ever think about chord tones and scales when I improvise. I only think of melody (and rhythm within that melody). But in practice (not the same as performance), I can work on hitting the root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, etc. That gets into one's ears just as any other thing would.
The big plus to this thinking is that when you do so, you begin to "feel" the changes more.
BTW, it isn't the only thing to do on guitar. Plenty of other things to work on. (and have fun with!)
Elliott Easton, one of the best players of his time!
No doubt!
good vid
Thanks!
If you played with other musicans - you will discover that when soloing you target a note that fits with a chord progression where it starts and finish .. Jimmy learned that trick to aim for the F note through experience ..
That's the point of this video.
"if you played with other musicians"
What an obnoxious douche thing to say..
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but C and Am are the same notes, F included. Perhaps you meant to say that F is not in Am pentatonic.
I’d have to hear it again, but I think F being the root of that chord In the progression
I think perhaps you didn't hear and see what I said and displayed. If you watch 0:50 to 2:20 you'll see it's *exactly* what I said and displayed. (1. That C major and Am share the same notes, and 2. F is not in the Am Pentatonic)
Finally the word EMPHASIZED, has a true meeting other than the idiot phone iphone reply😅❤😅❤
You should try some Allan Holdsworth, Pat Martino and maybe some OPETH or any Euro Prog or Prog Metal! Page was a good player but these guys are amazing. As far as genius goes Classical composers and Jazz composers are where it's at.
As mentioned by @GuitarSaxHammond the first phrase of the solo ends (resolves) on F because the rhythm part has moved to F.
THAT's the Genius!
The song is in Am /Cmaj and F is indeed one of the notes in that scale. If the rhythm part was different and rested on another note,
Jimmy would've resolved to that other note. You're right, but the explanation could start with the simple fact of the current chord,
then explain the primary key the song is in and the associated scale (and pattern) where all the chords and solo notes are coming from.
Well, the chord progression is Am-GMaj-FMaj. So ending that phrase on the F just makes sense. Of course ending on E "just doesn't sound right".
As for Stairway to heaven lead. How could you not go to the "F" note when the progression hits "F" at that time. Just like "Oh That Smell" lead break the "F" is right there. Of course, Jimmy Page is brilliant, but he is not brilliant going to the "F", he was using common sense.
Correct.
That's kind of the point here, right? It's not genius, it's learned and obvious. Players today (and years ago too) are taught - "use the Am pentatonic" or "all you need to know it the pentatonic scale".
It's called playing trough the changes.
Good stuff. Yeah. The more one digs into Page's playing, the more those subtle choices in notes begins to open our tiny heads into his universe. There are so many phrases like that in his oeuvre. The near decade of being a studio musician and playing on soundtracks like Gold Finger and soling for Tom Jones, was an accomplishment in itself that most would be telling their grandchildren about.
But no. He kept digging deeper. Never settling for the obvious. Pushing himself and three others with a vision that would overtake music like no other. A reporter once asked him while backstage, how did you become so great? "Just believe in yourself." - Jimmy Page
Thanks!
Sh!t, I wish I could play even like the solo starting at 3:00. If I could do even that I would be ecstatic. I wouldn't feel like I was done but it would be something. We need periodic victories, however small, to keep at it. Even though I know all 5 positions of pentatonic and blues fluently and decent on major/minor I can't play lead worth a damn.
Thank you so much!
@@MarkZabel You are most welcome. I really like your approach to teaching, did you see my comment under your pinned comment? If I was gunning for as reply it was to that one. Thanks for what you do.
@@christianhoffman7407 Missed it. I'll check it out. TH-cam doesn't alert me to comments on comments ... flaw in the system I think.
@ @MarkZabel 5:50 So a G# Major would be a borrowed non-diatonic chord in this instance and because it works in the context of the song then it's triad/chord tones are fair game in that part of the solo - is that correct? Is that what you are saying? In a nutshell the point of this video is to mind your triads/chord tones at the beginning and the end of your phrases?
@ Yes, though you're complicating it a bit. It's a chord that's used in the song and it's a resting chord - so you can play its chord tones.
(The "borrowed chord from non-diatonic ..." language is not needed.)
You answered your own question about why Jimmy chose that last note. It sounds better.
That's a very shallow answer though, which is why I continued.
Very nice, but you still can’t play it in guitar stores
I usually enjoy your videos. I have been playing for a long time but still usually get something from your videos. This one was just confusing.
It would be helpful to know what you found confusing about it. (Or at least where you got lost.)
It’s more about modal usage and not scales.
That's one way of thinking about it. I prefer thinking about it through chord tones.
Oh, it’s you again! The guy that makes my finger sore. Ma’ma let’em play was painful.🤣
LOL! That one is definitely a bit "deedle dee dee" with the fingers.
Yeah, a video about a note in a guitar solo! Awesome😅
Whew! I'm glad I'm not gonna have to learn any jazz!
C is the dominant 5th of the F chord. It is the strongest note he could land on over an F. Landing on a B would have been a dissonant dim5. It would make no sense to land on a B using basic music theory... Lead guitar playing is not about scales it is about chords.
No kidding it's not about scales. *That's the point of this video - to get people to stop using scales on autopilot.*
It's not a C Major scale. It's A minor. Aeolian. C Major may be how you'd generate that mode but has nothing to do with the harmony being played.
C major is the key. A is the tonal center. Standard music theory is ridiculously redundant.
What is the key defined by the notes A, B, C, D, E, F, G? It's C of course. And the triad-based chords generated from it are Am, Bdim, C, Dm, Em, F, G. (No matter where you start generating them.) It certainly has a lot to do with the harmony being played here.
@@MarkZabel C Major is C Major, it's tonic is C. A minor is A minor, it's tonic is A.
Talking about C is confusing and becomes the source of many people's confusion about modes.
The harmony being played is A minor.
@@MarkZabel So you've censored me? Lame..
C is not A. A is not C. Teaching it this way leaves people confused.
@@whatilearnttoday5295 Who censored you? Not me. I'm seeing your posts. If you're not seeing them, you're censoring yourself.
@@whatilearnttoday5295 Okay, so it's Am in your world. Really? Tell me the chord progression here. What is it? Use the Nashville Number System.
And I never said C was A. (Note: A is not Am.)
If it wasn't for TAB, you'd be playing the major third (B#) over that G# chord!
It's the major 3rd with or without the Tab.
@@MarkZabel And it still sounds good. Thank you for your excellent videos and playing.
@@wesleyc.4937 Thanks!
🤯🤯🤯🤔🤔🤔😎👍
You could work on your bends a bit mate,a few missing the target note.
He was on the F chord - what's so strange about playing the F note?
Hilarious. Jimmy Page plays an F over an F chord and it's somehow a revelation
You'd be surprised how many players NEVER think about chords when they solo.
@MarkZabel ok man well good luck with your channel
It's just Natural Minor .
Honestly I play by ear and I woulve chosen that note cus the other one just sounds wrong. No need for theory there
Jimmy knew scales but didn't read.
F chord
Too bad you have laws that govern what you can play and can’t play. You can obsess intellectually too pass the time of day.
Page, Beck, Clapton,Hendrix, Harrison, Peter Green, Mick Taylor, et al knew nothing of theory and most could not tell you the name of chords. Ears and feel with 10,000 hours of mistakes made them great
You don't sound like Jimmy Page at all.
Is that AI's version of page? Little googly eyed weird looking.
Epiphone? Really?
Yes.
Lol wtf is this really? The Beatles played Epiphone and many modern players, Gary Clark Jr comes to mind.. I mean it’s good enough for them but it’s not good enough for your basement? Lol comical
@@stonecole4703The Beatles played real epiphones not cheap Chinese JUNK like his. If you're going to post a video on Jimmy Page you need a real Les Paul sunburst standard. What an insult to Jimmy Page. Thank you for showing your ignorance about the subject