This was probably the single best cinematic experience I've ever had in the cinema. I'm from the UK and no one ever claps in the cinema and when Cap says "Avengers....Assemble." Everyone absolutely lost it.
@@BROWNMIST44 our theatre erupted during both the mjolnir and assemble scenes. I had tears of both joy and sadness in the last hour of the movie. Incredible
Man, I'm from UK too, but even during Endgame final battle nobody cheered or clapped in theatre except me. Was so disappointed. It was 3 days after premier though.
Man, the moment when Nick throws to Andy for "Rank Those Abs" and gets "Is It A Wig?" instead, causing the rest of the group to shower him in absolute disdain was hilarious.
Btw the directors confirmed Cap created another dimension when he went back in time. From EW: "“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?” The brothers smile. “Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”"
Kevin is so wrong it hurts. Like, he brings up Quill getting knocked out...Thanos and Nebula from that timeline are dead. It doesn't affect our main timeline.
Here after 2 years, and this movie still brings me to tears. Watched it with my then 7, 11 and 12 year old boys. When cap picks up mjollnir, I just so happened to look over at my boys and their jaws were on the ground…followed by the “avengers assemble” moment shortly after. This memory is forever cemented in my head. Hands down best cinematic experience/ father-son bonding moment EVER. GD this was beautiful. And there I go crying again. Fk!
Mark my words, they mentioned the energy pulses to do with Thanos using the stones at the beginning of the film as a set up for Galactus. Do not be surprised if in a future MCU movie they touch on "the garden" planet (whatever it was called) being "decimated" as a hint of the fact that these energy signatures are sought after by the big G. Plus, Earth has now been ground zero for THREE of these cosmic energy pulses in the space of 5 years.
Could be... but for them to even mention galctus in the MCU it will depend on its own success from this moment forward and I dont think they will have it, at least not as big as it was this 10 years, they may have something in their minds but they really need to hit the reset button and have at least 3 years of movies without any big hint, otherwise it will feel rushed. I believe that, if they are able to pull this off (another major story development like the infinity saga), what took them 10 years, would need 15 years from now on.
Again, Kevin is using the Back to the Future time traveling theory after they made it a point to explain that is not how it works. Their past happened. It's set in stone and cannot be undone the same way it can be altered in BTTF. It doesn't have a butterfly or rippling effect. Killing Thanos as a baby would not at all effect THEIR timeline, or make it so that they were never able to create the portal. Instead, it would create an alternate one in which Thanos didn't grow up in. They made it a point to say that going into our past would be part of our future because we are currently our present self. We were always destined to get to this point in this reality. That's why the Ancient Once visually shows us how removing the stone from that point in time could possibly save our reality but it would greatly effect hers negatively because her self then would be moving into an alternate timeline where she never had the time stone and was unable to pass it down to Doctor Strange, UNLESS he delivers it back to her at THAT point in time and not before because then that would only create yet another timeline where two stones exists instead of fixing the one where the stone was removed from. It's tricky which is why time travel can get so messy, but they're supporting their own logic by using the multiverse theory. But it doesn't mean it isn't flawed. That's the problem with writing about time traveling without prior reference or without it being contained like in Prisoner of Azkaban. There are a few blatant plotholes and it is how did Cap return the Space Stone as the Tesseract, hold the Power Stone to get it back to Morag, return the Mind Stone as part of the Sceptre and get the Reality Stone back in Aether form to put back into Jane? How did he return the Soul Stone to Vormir? Isn't Hawkeye still technically the owner as he earned the Soul Stones? And how was he able to arrive at that particular moment at the bench when going back and staying in the past would mean he created an alternate timeline where two Caps existed?
You are spot on Lauren. All of those questions we just have to say, well I guess he figured out how to do it. As for the bench part, see if you can find my original comment about it above. I think it fits pretty nicely and shows it's not a plot hole
Why would any of those stones need to be in the place they were originally?? The only one that needs to be returned is the time stone so Urmarmu doesn't destroy Earth. The universe seems to of done fine for 5 years without any stones at all, Urmarmu hasn't returned, and besides they aint getting new stones to keep in the prime timeline, seems like the old ones would mostly be fine without stones.. I think the Ancient One was only really talking about her own stone and returning the other stones was a bit of a waste of Caps time.. Besides leaving some of the stones out of the alternate timelines would stop the half dozen other Thanoses from snapping those timelines out of existence.. This is the only real plot hole I can find, they never give a reason the other timelines NEED stones, since ours is fine with ZERO stones.
I really like the idea that the future can't be changed because you go into the past. But because you lived your life up to that point then went back in time, the past now becomes your future and therefore cannot change. I also like the way they really made it simpler too by having the alternate timelines and how that each can be opened and closed. my only issue was the loki disappearing because we knew about his show before the movie came out and its pretty clear that thats going to be the focus
Lauren G. Cap can travel back to the past from the future of the bench, but how did he get back into the main timeline from his alternate one? That’s the biggest plot hole to me, and if they wanna say there’s always been 2 Caps in the main timeline, then they’ve created a time paradox with Peggy’s children, creating a chicken/egg scenario with no conclusion which is worse than a plot hole.
Chris Hemsworth has been quoted as being open to whatevers up for thor going forward, it just seemed like he was really over the whole shakespear in the park of thor 1 n 2. I love how theyve changed and fleshed out thor over n over
The Russo brothers confirmed that Cap went back and created and alternate timeline by staying in the past. They were asked how he got back to the main timeline, and they smiled and said "That's an interesting question😉. There might be a story there."
The movie references Ratchet & Clank when Tony calls Rocket "Ratchet" while Rocket is holding a wrench. EDIT: Wow ok so it was some people on the internet who told me he was carrying a wrench, but I saw it again and he was carrying a hammer at the time... Welp. I also read that something to do with how the line is translated in different language versions indicates that it's an intentional reference, but idk internet people could be fucking me over with that too.
He was wrong about how Cap gets on the bench though. Hulk says "He blew past his re-entry point" so he just didn't go to the portal and went 20 ft to the left and sat on the bench
Everything about this film was worth it. Never had a emotional rollercoaster during a film. Easily the greatest comic film of all time and I stand by that. Super excited for the future of the MCU and thankful to see this 11 year story end.
57:21 = Sorry Kevin, but according to Joe Russo in an interview, Tim is correct and Cap going back to be with Peggy created a separate timeline that the old Cap came from to pass the shield to Sam, which will get explored somewhere in a future project.
If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality. The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away? Interesting question, right? Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.” - Joe Russo Found in a Screenrant interview
I believe we were watching the alternate timeline the whole time. When Cap decided to stay, that fractured to a new timeline. So the only way that you could see the perspective of Cap living and aging to the bench, is that we were watching the fractured timeline once Thanos destroyed the original stones.
John Hoang That would mean that Old Cap would’ve had to have been in hiding from the moment Young Cap was thawed, and he couldn’t attend Peggy’s funeral. All this does is open up a can of worms.
I would say tho, Cap 5 years post snap, is in a different mindset than Cap pre snap. In Endgame he talks about moving on and getting a life. I think all original Avengers had big character arcs after the 5yrs that changed them to a point where I could see Cap going for what's more important to him after realizing winning or losing, you will always have that big regret in life(unless you have access to a time machine) because of his burden to take on the troubles of the world.
Then originally I still say each time there was a change in the past due to a visit from the future, a new timeline is created. So we might have switch from watching the original timeline to a different timeline once they all returned. So at that point, future Cap had already existed during the our perceived original timeline. Once you go through to the past and come back, what has happened and will happened, happened. If that makes any sense. So Cap deciding to stay in the past has happened already when they make the return home with the stones.
Just wanna point out that Tim is spot on on how Cap came back at the end, Joe Russo said he lived his life in a different timeline and came back. The theory that there were two Caps the whole time is dumb anyway
@@chrislopez5301 Hulk said it would be 5 seconds for us but Cap can take as long as he needed to return the stones, so he did. And decided to live a full life with Peggy up till her death, which is why he looks 80+ years old.
I’m sure this has been said already in the comments or someone told you guys on twitter but the directors confirmed Cap lived in a different timeline. They put out a QA for the big questions
Also, the 5-year aging thing puts the Spider-Man movies in an interesting place too - doesn't that mean Miles Morales could be 5 years older and closer to Peter's age now?
@@timc2620 He hasn't been formally introduced yet, but they make direct reference to him in Homecoming. Go to the funny interrogation scene. Aaron Davis (Miles' uncle) tells Spider-Man that he doesn't want Vulture's weapons on the streets because he has a little nephew who lives in the area. Also, in that same scene the license plate on the car references the issue that Miles first appears in.
Hulk: “He blew right by his time stamp he should have been back by now.” This indicates that Steve did in fact go into the future and came back to be at the bench. Tim is right.
The 4 of them going to Morag together and then splitting up has a reasonable excuse: It's easy to send them to the same year, but two different places in the same year, however, is too much of a risk.
This video makes me feel everything I felt in the theatre opening night and hearing you guys describe it brought all those feelings back and just made for a wonderful podcast that spruced up a pretty shitty day
I agree with kev. At first I thought repeat viewings were going to be a bit “tough” because there is sooo much in this movie. But after seeing it again for a second time, I was wrong. this movie stands up well to repeated viewing. I had tears with a huge grin on my face during the final battle.
This is how the time worked with Captain America:. There were two caps in the past, the future cap (2nd cap) went back and did not affect anything that would change the time. He knew when to be at the bench. He existed in the same time as the Cap who was an Avenger, fought Thanos and then went back in Time. It's not that hard to understand, he just stayed OUT of meddling with the timeline.
Doesnt matter if he stayed out of trouble or not- The act of going back in time physically puts someone in a different timeline. Your still thinking like BTTF logic, they take time and effort to loudly explain it doesn't work how you are describing.
Tim is correct about the time stuff. It's more confusing than it should be because the character that explains it to banner in New York explains it wrong and contradicts how it's explained earlier in the movie. She says that if they take the stone from their universe then it will cause a split and new time line to be created but actually the new time line was already created as soon as they entered that universe from their original universe. Once they're there they've already changed things so another alternative time line is created, taking the stone doesn't then devide it more, it's already been divided. Also they don't need to return the stones to the exact time and place from which they took them, they just need to put them back in their own universe because if the stones are forever gone from those universes then the people have no chance of defending themselves. So as long as the stone is back in its own universe the people there can defend themselves from threats. So they could go back to the universe and just drop the stone in a random field if they wanted to, just so long as the stone is back in the right universe that's all they had to do. Putting the stones back in the right place would be polite but nothing more.
@@MikeSW I think the opposite. I don't like that idea at all - it leans more into the side of Steve's character that people found uninteresting (faultless, perfect, etc.) He can be a genuinely good person and still make a mistake every now and then. And the mistake/guilt of not being honest with Tony is big enough to stop him from not being worthy in my opinion. I think it's much better storytelling.
@@thefakejoey8549 That's worse storytelling. You can't actively make an inference to that end - you have to be told later on. The AoU scene has the info readily available to interpret. You see the hammer move, you can't say for certain if he can pick it up or if he falls on some imaginary spectrum close to "worthiness." If the reason is guilt, you have to wait for an entirely different movie to be told by the writers that the scene had that significance - there is no way to know or guess as a viewer.
@@thefakejoey8549 Cleary guilt isn't enough to make you unworthy. Thor was clearly still feeling guilty after the chat with his mother and he called Mjoulnir. He may have reconciled some doubts but was still clearly guilty about not "going for the head".
MCU time travel works like DBZ time travel. You can’t go back in time and change events in your timeline as that could alter events that would lead to you time travelling in the first place. Instead an alternate branching timeline is created. The Avengers created four alternate timelines when they got the stones. Their original plan was after the stones were used to undo the snap they’d be returned to the alternate timelines where they were taken to minimize the changes to them. Of course two of those timelines were permanently changed with Loki’s escape and Thanos’ death. In the end Cap returned all the stones and then went to a new timeline where he lived with Peggy. He returned to the main timeline to give Sam the shield
They agreed upon "groups of four" when entering the quantum realm, so i'm assuming that's why Nat and Clint went with War Machine and Nebula, instead of going straight to Volmir right away.
Technically yes they have to put them back where they found them as to not fracture the timeline. -The Ancient One need the time stone back or else it would never end up in the hands of Dr Strange and he never would have stopped Dormammu -the power stone needed to be back in the vault so Star Lord could find it and the events of Guardians -the soul stone would be returned to Vormir and there are some discrepancies with as to what happened to the soul it took Gamora/Widow -the reality Stone would need to be put “back in to Jane” as so the events of the Dark World could play out properly -the space stone/tesseract would need to be put back in 1970 so the future of the MCU could play out as such -the mind stone /scepter needed to be put back in the case right after avengers so that Wanda & Pietro would be created and eventually Vision Like The Ancient One said they all form the time stream and if taken out of their path then it would create fractured and branching timelines so as to remedy that they can be taken out but must be put back where they were found as to recomplete the timestream
That's not what the ancient one was saying, there would still be multiple timelines. None of the other stones really matter, putting them back was kinda pointless, oh no a world without Vision, who cares
Ace Jaden Angel no she was saying that they need to be put back to keep the time stream in place. Remove them you create an alternate branching reality/timeline but if you put it back where it was the time stream would not be affected and no alternate realities would be created. They have to put them back or else they break time and interrupt the time stream creating many different timelines/realities.
Didn't get a post credit scene...but this 2 hr review will certainly fit the void! The still best line of MCU : That's my secret Cap, I'm always angry....
I don’t think Infinity War is incredibly rewatchable, it’s weird that everyone keeps saying that. To me, Infinity War is incredibly taxing emotionally even more so than this film in a weird way considering what happens. The snap is such a monumental defeat for our heroes and it feels like a gut punch every time, I am not happy or excited at the end of IF (not that that’s a bad thing)
One more thought...Hulk literally accidentally made a fountain of youth. He passed time through Scott Lang and turned him into a baby. Maybe he could do something similar on a certain old man on a bench :P
So I didn't see anyone say so in the comments, but I want to say they didn't send Hawkeye and Black Widow directly to Vormir because... Gamora and Thanos were the only ones who knew it's exact location after having gone there (based on a map that Gamora memorized and then destroyed, per Infinity War), and they're both dead. Being teleported to a location you think you might know where it is (and possibly being wrong and then sent adrift in space and potentially wasting Pym Particles to be retrieved) is a lot different from letting the ship auto-pilot to where a place is meant to be, and then landing it there once you see it. Does that make sense? Nebula only implies she knew where they went (IIRC), but not the exact quantum coordinates, or whatever. So they had to hoof it the last bit. We've either seen the other characters physically BE at the other locations (NYC and Camp Lehigh) or it's reasonable that they've been at some point for some reason or another. Nobody other than Thanos or Gamora should know precisely where Vormir is.
After I saw Renner's haircut in the trailer, I got that hawk & had it for a year (pretty much til covid made me cut). I stand by that that cut is cool. Esp since I'm def a Hawkeye stan.
Still waiting for someone to explain just what makes Captain Marvel 'overpowered' in the same series where a guy has a suit that absorbs damage and reflects it and literal magic but someone who has glowy hands and a vendetta against spaceships is unfair
The "Avengers Assemble" moment didn't really hit me compared to most other things because I was just wondering how many of them could actually hear him
I am so glad this review was longer than most of the others. Also Andy was saying they may have went too long with the time trace talk but at no point was I annoyed. Thanks for the epic review
Yall are looking way to much into this time line thing. I feel the movie did a pretty good job of explaining it. Nothing changes if you don't fuck with the stones. They put them back so nothing changes.
Remember in Infinity War, right after Thanos snapped his finger, it jumps to the scene which shows Thanos himself and a young Gamora talking ? The "What does it cost ?" or something like that... This time right after Hulk snapped his finger in the Avengers HQ, there should be a scene of him and Black Widow talking in the same place as Thanos and young Gamora. Talking about "Let's go I am bring you back" "I am afraid I can't go with you Bruce, a soul for a soul" something like that... Can you imagine this deleted scene ? So that's why Hulk said "I tried to bring her back." later in the movie... Really would love to see that.
I’ve been really looking forward to this Video. I saw Endgame twice, and It definitely went in a direction I never thought it would. I think all in all I think Infinity way is a better movie. But I still find endgame as the perfect ending.
Kevin just not getting the time lines (or you could say seeing the timelines differently than me tim Benny for from Comicstorian and the Russo Brothers) was the funniest part of this in review this watch
I love the small shining moments from the characters we know will be the future of the MCU - especially the Gauntlet being passed from Black Panther to Spider-Man to Captain Marvel. That plus Thor's future puts the MCU in an interesting place.
You guys talk about how bucky and cap know eachother so well and he says i'm gonna miss you It's a callback to the first avenger where the roles are switched where Buckys leaving for the war and says: "Don't do anything crazy while i'm gone" and Steve replies: "How could I? You're taking all the crazy with you" This is what they say to eachother when they don't know if they're going to come back so cap was saying to him that he's leaving
Listening to Kevin's time travel theories has been the most frustrating thing to do today haha. They explain it in the movie why can't he let go of the idea that they're changing the future by changing the past?
well pretty much any famous time travel movie is about going to the past to fix something in the future. Looper, Deadpool 2 credits, Terminator, whatever. People cant get the idea of agency and time as a linear flow out of their minds
There being "Two Captain Americas the whole time" doesn't work. That means you're accepting that everything the Avengers did while they were in the past, has affected the future. Not only did Hulk explain that kind of idea away by saying we can't change our present or future by changing the past, but also, Loki would have escaped with the Tessaract. The whole point was that they were not going into the past to change the present, because that's not how time works in the MCU. That's why they were forced to bring new infinity stones to the present.
I watched it for the second time last night and noticed so many bittersweet intricate details I missed the last time. I noticed some dialogues because I knew the ending. I'll watch it at least one more time.
From what I understand the Stones just need to be returned to the exact moment they were removed from the timeline, so the Soul Stone doesn't go back to where it was with Red Skull protecting it. It just is returned to where Hawkeye removed it from that timeline
The crew's issue with Vormir is easy to explain. They don't know exactly where it is. The only people we know of that went there are both dead. Hawkeye has never been to space, and presumably Black Widow only once. Better to have Nebula do the driving, I would think. Also, it has zero impact on the plot, so it's moot.
The movie explains in the simplest way it can that there aren't multiple timelines. The Ancient One/Sorcerer Supreme shows us the timeline as it exists, and shows that alternate timelines are only created when an Infinity Stone is removed from a point in time.
The thing about old Cap messing up the time line that people aren't thinking about is that Cap created an alternate time line and we were in it the entire time.
Tim is correct, they specifically say you can't change the past of this timeline. When you change anything you create a separate timeline. Banner says if they put all the stones back, then taking the stones won't create a separate timeline, but taking the stones aren't the only thing that can change the timeline. That's why new Nebula can kill old Nebula and still be alive. Because those separate timelines can't change the main timeline that we've been living in since 2008. Cap lived with Peggy in another timeline and came back as an old man. Could have come back to the platform 30 minutes or a day before, because he knew they were going to be there at that exact time to send him back to return the stones and Mjolner. IGN also has a good video about it. But Tim is correct.
This was probably the single best cinematic experience I've ever had in the cinema.
I'm from the UK and no one ever claps in the cinema and when Cap says "Avengers....Assemble."
Everyone absolutely lost it.
@@BROWNMIST44 our theatre erupted during both the mjolnir and assemble scenes. I had tears of both joy and sadness in the last hour of the movie. Incredible
The Matrix
Man, I'm from UK too, but even during Endgame final battle nobody cheered or clapped in theatre except me. Was so disappointed. It was 3 days after premier though.
@@TheEpicMind clapping is a premiere day thing usually only as its the biggest of the biggest fans there
If this was the top cinematic experience for you.....I hope you're 18 or something.
This review has been done 14 million different ways, We're here for this 1.
I looked forward to two things when endgame was released: the film itself and this review. I was not disappointed with either.
Man, the moment when Nick throws to Andy for "Rank Those Abs" and gets "Is It A Wig?" instead, causing the rest of the group to shower him in absolute disdain was hilarious.
Btw the directors confirmed Cap created another dimension when he went back in time.
From EW:
"“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”
The brothers smile.
“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”"
Thank you for this. Hopefully they'll use the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse to the fullest; Black Widow comes back to life, What Ifs, Evil Avengers?
The screenwriters disagree.
PeachiMomo
So they basically said “we’ve spent three years thinking about it, but we don’t know yet.”
And the screen writers say otherwise, which is fucking hilarious to me LMFAO
Kevin is so wrong it hurts. Like, he brings up Quill getting knocked out...Thanos and Nebula from that timeline are dead. It doesn't affect our main timeline.
I feel like Kevin doesn't actually pay attention to movies but just gets excited over big moments. "OMG Cap lifted Mjolnir, it's #1!!!!!!!"
Been waiting for this since leaving the theater!
Here after 2 years, and this movie still brings me to tears. Watched it with my then 7, 11 and 12 year old boys. When cap picks up mjollnir, I just so happened to look over at my boys and their jaws were on the ground…followed by the “avengers assemble” moment shortly after. This memory is forever cemented in my head. Hands down best cinematic experience/ father-son bonding moment EVER. GD this was beautiful. And there I go crying again. Fk!
Mark my words, they mentioned the energy pulses to do with Thanos using the stones at the beginning of the film as a set up for Galactus. Do not be surprised if in a future MCU movie they touch on "the garden" planet (whatever it was called) being "decimated" as a hint of the fact that these energy signatures are sought after by the big G. Plus, Earth has now been ground zero for THREE of these cosmic energy pulses in the space of 5 years.
Could be... but for them to even mention galctus in the MCU it will depend on its own success from this moment forward and I dont think they will have it, at least not as big as it was this 10 years, they may have something in their minds but they really need to hit the reset button and have at least 3 years of movies without any big hint, otherwise it will feel rushed.
I believe that, if they are able to pull this off (another major story development like the infinity saga), what took them 10 years, would need 15 years from now on.
Again, Kevin is using the Back to the Future time traveling theory after they made it a point to explain that is not how it works. Their past happened. It's set in stone and cannot be undone the same way it can be altered in BTTF. It doesn't have a butterfly or rippling effect. Killing Thanos as a baby would not at all effect THEIR timeline, or make it so that they were never able to create the portal. Instead, it would create an alternate one in which Thanos didn't grow up in. They made it a point to say that going into our past would be part of our future because we are currently our present self. We were always destined to get to this point in this reality.
That's why the Ancient Once visually shows us how removing the stone from that point in time could possibly save our reality but it would greatly effect hers negatively because her self then would be moving into an alternate timeline where she never had the time stone and was unable to pass it down to Doctor Strange, UNLESS he delivers it back to her at THAT point in time and not before because then that would only create yet another timeline where two stones exists instead of fixing the one where the stone was removed from. It's tricky which is why time travel can get so messy, but they're supporting their own logic by using the multiverse theory.
But it doesn't mean it isn't flawed. That's the problem with writing about time traveling without prior reference or without it being contained like in Prisoner of Azkaban. There are a few blatant plotholes and it is how did Cap return the Space Stone as the Tesseract, hold the Power Stone to get it back to Morag, return the Mind Stone as part of the Sceptre and get the Reality Stone back in Aether form to put back into Jane? How did he return the Soul Stone to Vormir? Isn't Hawkeye still technically the owner as he earned the Soul Stones? And how was he able to arrive at that particular moment at the bench when going back and staying in the past would mean he created an alternate timeline where two Caps existed?
You are spot on Lauren. All of those questions we just have to say, well I guess he figured out how to do it. As for the bench part, see if you can find my original comment about it above. I think it fits pretty nicely and shows it's not a plot hole
Why would any of those stones need to be in the place they were originally?? The only one that needs to be returned is the time stone so Urmarmu doesn't destroy Earth. The universe seems to of done fine for 5 years without any stones at all, Urmarmu hasn't returned, and besides they aint getting new stones to keep in the prime timeline, seems like the old ones would mostly be fine without stones.. I think the Ancient One was only really talking about her own stone and returning the other stones was a bit of a waste of Caps time.. Besides leaving some of the stones out of the alternate timelines would stop the half dozen other Thanoses from snapping those timelines out of existence.. This is the only real plot hole I can find, they never give a reason the other timelines NEED stones, since ours is fine with ZERO stones.
Thank you, Lauren! Finally someone who gets it. This should be the top comment!
I really like the idea that the future can't be changed because you go into the past. But because you lived your life up to that point then went back in time, the past now becomes your future and therefore cannot change. I also like the way they really made it simpler too by having the alternate timelines and how that each can be opened and closed. my only issue was the loki disappearing because we knew about his show before the movie came out and its pretty clear that thats going to be the focus
Lauren G.
Cap can travel back to the past from the future of the bench, but how did he get back into the main timeline from his alternate one? That’s the biggest plot hole to me, and if they wanna say there’s always been 2 Caps in the main timeline, then they’ve created a time paradox with Peggy’s children, creating a chicken/egg scenario with no conclusion which is worse than a plot hole.
22:28 the bald guy in the group was Jim Starlin, creator of Thanos!
Chris Hemsworth has been quoted as being open to whatevers up for thor going forward, it just seemed like he was really over the whole shakespear in the park of thor 1 n 2. I love how theyve changed and fleshed out thor over n over
The Russo brothers confirmed that Cap went back and created and alternate timeline by staying in the past. They were asked how he got back to the main timeline, and they smiled and said "That's an interesting question😉. There might be a story there."
CraftedJedi66 MC yeah. Kind of obvious. He fucked up shit. And he took Thor’s hammer and who knows what happened to it.
@@kingofzero It's safe to assume that he left Mjolnir back in the Dark World Timeline.
Cause they know they fucked up and dont have an answer
@@mikec4880 he put back all the stones and the hammer returning the normal timeline. Then he went and lived with Peggy while our cap was in ice.
Andy doing the wrong intros for the podcasts within podcasts slayed me
The movie references Ratchet & Clank when Tony calls Rocket "Ratchet" while Rocket is holding a wrench. EDIT: Wow ok so it was some people on the internet who told me he was carrying a wrench, but I saw it again and he was carrying a hammer at the time... Welp. I also read that something to do with how the line is translated in different language versions indicates that it's an intentional reference, but idk internet people could be fucking me over with that too.
I just brushed that off as a coincidence, but maybe it is a reference now that I think about it.
VooDooChild6971
They like games so they would know, and Tony has a habit of making references.
Tim's explanation of the time stuff is spot on.
Thank you! It's so clearly not the "Two Captain Americas the whole time" that was the whole point of Hulk explaining how timelines work in the MCU
MrGreenerCat Exactly!!
He was wrong about how Cap gets on the bench though. Hulk says "He blew past his re-entry point" so he just didn't go to the portal and went 20 ft to the left and sat on the bench
Is Kev’s laugh at the end stinger similar to the cling cling cling- what started this all?
He grabbed extra Pym particles to travel multiple times, it totally makes sense.
I enjoy watching kevin struggle trying to understand the time travel
Everything about this film was worth it. Never had a emotional rollercoaster during a film. Easily the greatest comic film of all time and I stand by that. Super excited for the future of the MCU and thankful to see this 11 year story end.
Loved the movie. A perfect ending to the MCU as we know it.
I wish we had a Michael Pena explaining scene but I get it
That would have been great.
Still time for that to be the intro to Ant-Man 3!
the most goddamn intense football game ever was the end of Avengers: Endgame
@@HermanFalckHow cuz Patriots fans don't see intense football games? I don't catch your drift
57:21 = Sorry Kevin, but according to Joe Russo in an interview, Tim is correct and Cap going back to be with Peggy created a separate timeline that the old Cap came from to pass the shield to Sam, which will get explored somewhere in a future project.
If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality. The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away? Interesting question, right? Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”
- Joe Russo
Found in a Screenrant interview
These films made me realise that I may not be a comic book fan but I’m a huge comic book film fan and I’m ok with that.
Was Kevin's laugh at the end there supposed to be a reference to the sound of Tony Stark building the first Iron Man suit? lol.
I believe we were watching the alternate timeline the whole time.
When Cap decided to stay, that fractured to a new timeline. So the only way that you could see the perspective of Cap living and aging to the bench, is that we were watching the fractured timeline once Thanos destroyed the original stones.
John Hoang
That would mean that Old Cap would’ve had to have been in hiding from the moment Young Cap was thawed, and he couldn’t attend Peggy’s funeral. All this does is open up a can of worms.
I would say tho, Cap 5 years post snap, is in a different mindset than Cap pre snap. In Endgame he talks about moving on and getting a life. I think all original Avengers had big character arcs after the 5yrs that changed them to a point where I could see Cap going for what's more important to him after realizing winning or losing, you will always have that big regret in life(unless you have access to a time machine) because of his burden to take on the troubles of the world.
@@johnhoang1750
Oh I dont mean Cap's arc, I mean plot logistics/coherency.
Then originally I still say each time there was a change in the past due to a visit from the future, a new timeline is created. So we might have switch from watching the original timeline to a different timeline once they all returned. So at that point, future Cap had already existed during the our perceived original timeline. Once you go through to the past and come back, what has happened and will happened, happened. If that makes any sense. So Cap deciding to stay in the past has happened already when they make the return home with the stones.
Just wanna point out that Tim is spot on on how Cap came back at the end, Joe Russo said he lived his life in a different timeline and came back. The theory that there were two Caps the whole time is dumb anyway
Facts.
So how did he come back old if there time he wasnt gone long?
Calling it a timeline is confusing, just say "realities" and it makes way more sense.
@@chrislopez5301 Hulk said it would be 5 seconds for us but Cap can take as long as he needed to return the stones, so he did. And decided to live a full life with Peggy up till her death, which is why he looks 80+ years old.
@@HermanFalckHow were geeks, the whole point is to care.
I’m sure this has been said already in the comments or someone told you guys on twitter but the directors confirmed Cap lived in a different timeline. They put out a QA for the big questions
So he lived in a different timeline and then came back to our timeline to give the shield and die?
@@CoNiCuZn Yes.
The screenwriters disagree.
Everyone keeps forgetting that Cap grabbed FOUR Pym particle tubes in the 1970s. Two for them to get back but what about the other two?
Your math is bad, he needs to return 6 stones to 5 locations, that's at least 6 trips
Probably just in case something went wrong again
Hank was unsnapped. Can create endless particles.
Just as i warmed up this pizza..you dropped this... God Bless you KindaFunny !
22. Thor 2 4-
21. Capt Marvel 5+
20. Iron Man 2 7-
19. Ed Norton's Hulk 8-
18. Thor 8-
17. GOTG Vol. 2 8-
16. Iron Man 3 8-
15. Ant-Man 8-
14. Ant-Man & Wasp 8-
13. Black Panther 8-
12. Captain America 8-
11. Homecoming 8-
10. Dr. Strange 9+
9. Age Of Ultron 10+
8. Infinity War 10+
7. Endgame 10+
6. Ragnarok 10+
5. Iron Man 10+
4. Avengers 10+
3. Winter Soldier 10+
2. GOTG 10+
1. Civil War 10+
Also, the 5-year aging thing puts the Spider-Man movies in an interesting place too - doesn't that mean Miles Morales could be 5 years older and closer to Peter's age now?
Hero of Twilight ooooo never thought about that 🤔
What? Morales isn't in the MCU yet.
@@timc2620 He hasn't been formally introduced yet, but they make direct reference to him in Homecoming. Go to the funny interrogation scene. Aaron Davis (Miles' uncle) tells Spider-Man that he doesn't want Vulture's weapons on the streets because he has a little nephew who lives in the area. Also, in that same scene the license plate on the car references the issue that Miles first appears in.
@@timc2620 yea but Donald glover shows up in homecoming as his uncle, so Miles probably exists. And if he survived the snap he would be 5 years older.
Well how old was he supposed to be when spiderman homecoming came out? Miles also could've been snapped so maybe not
Hulk: “He blew right by his time stamp he should have been back by now.”
This indicates that Steve did in fact go into the future and came back to be at the bench. Tim is right.
I started tearing up when Tim said, “You can rest now.” Like omg I need to see this movie again
Now it’s canon what Bran Stark was doing during Season 8 EP 3 of GOT.
He saved Ant Man
Jorge Goias He controlled that rat, huh?
Watching KF talk about the movie even gives me a huge smile and tears of joy.
This movie was absolutely marvelous in countless way!
The 4 of them going to Morag together and then splitting up has a reasonable excuse: It's easy to send them to the same year, but two different places in the same year, however, is too much of a risk.
Been waiting for this! Not even a KF regular but I cant get enough of discussing this film. It was so good.
Watching this in 2021 feels like we are still in the first act of this movie...Miss the vibe of all of them in the studio!
This video makes me feel everything I felt in the theatre opening night and hearing you guys describe it brought all those feelings back and just made for a wonderful podcast that spruced up a pretty shitty day
Didn’t even finish this MCU in review
And now I’m back at the theater watching it again.
I agree with kev. At first I thought repeat viewings were going to be a bit “tough” because there is sooo much in this movie. But after seeing it again for a second time, I was wrong. this movie stands up well to repeated viewing. I had tears with a huge grin on my face during the final battle.
This is how the time worked with Captain America:. There were two caps in the past, the future cap (2nd cap) went back and did not affect anything that would change the time. He knew when to be at the bench. He existed in the same time as the Cap who was an Avenger, fought Thanos and then went back in Time. It's not that hard to understand, he just stayed OUT of meddling with the timeline.
So when we got the Cap vs Cap scene during the battle of New York, there was also a 3rd old man Cap that was living with Peggy.
Doesnt matter if he stayed out of trouble or not- The act of going back in time physically puts someone in a different timeline. Your still thinking like BTTF logic, they take time and effort to loudly explain it doesn't work how you are describing.
@@AceAngelTTV I'm literally not. In fact, your type of thinking IS BTTF logic. Like...how do you not see this?
Civil War, Ant-Man, Black Panther all have cold opens. Could me missing one or two.
Also Iron Man 3, Guardians 1 and Homecoming
NinjaJamez good call!!!
Avengers as well
Tony Shade
I’m ashamed of everyone forgetting Starlord losing his mom, easily the most powerful one.
Here almost a year later! I miss this hype. Wish I could rewatch Endgame for the first time.
Tim is correct about the time stuff. It's more confusing than it should be because the character that explains it to banner in New York explains it wrong and contradicts how it's explained earlier in the movie. She says that if they take the stone from their universe then it will cause a split and new time line to be created but actually the new time line was already created as soon as they entered that universe from their original universe. Once they're there they've already changed things so another alternative time line is created, taking the stone doesn't then devide it more, it's already been divided. Also they don't need to return the stones to the exact time and place from which they took them, they just need to put them back in their own universe because if the stones are forever gone from those universes then the people have no chance of defending themselves. So as long as the stone is back in its own universe the people there can defend themselves from threats. So they could go back to the universe and just drop the stone in a random field if they wanted to, just so long as the stone is back in the right universe that's all they had to do. Putting the stones back in the right place would be polite but nothing more.
I get blindsided every single episode by how high Guardians 2 is. HOW?
I know, it is not even better than GOTG 1
Watching it again, Yondu and how hard it hit all of them. Also Gaurdians 2 is like one of 5 movies in this series that'll make ya cry
It’s so good. Marvel doing Sci-fi
The Russo Brothers explained that cap is worthy because he does not have the guilt of Tony’s parents anymore
Really? That's dumb. I like the idea of him just faking being unable to lift the hammer to keep Thor happy.
@@MikeSW I think the opposite. I don't like that idea at all - it leans more into the side of Steve's character that people found uninteresting (faultless, perfect, etc.) He can be a genuinely good person and still make a mistake every now and then. And the mistake/guilt of not being honest with Tony is big enough to stop him from not being worthy in my opinion. I think it's much better storytelling.
@@thefakejoey8549 That's worse storytelling. You can't actively make an inference to that end - you have to be told later on. The AoU scene has the info readily available to interpret. You see the hammer move, you can't say for certain if he can pick it up or if he falls on some imaginary spectrum close to "worthiness." If the reason is guilt, you have to wait for an entirely different movie to be told by the writers that the scene had that significance - there is no way to know or guess as a viewer.
@@thefakejoey8549 Cleary guilt isn't enough to make you unworthy. Thor was clearly still feeling guilty after the chat with his mother and he called Mjoulnir. He may have reconciled some doubts but was still clearly guilty about not "going for the head".
MCU time travel works like DBZ time travel. You can’t go back in time and change events in your timeline as that could alter events that would lead to you time travelling in the first place. Instead an alternate branching timeline is created. The Avengers created four alternate timelines when they got the stones. Their original plan was after the stones were used to undo the snap they’d be returned to the alternate timelines where they were taken to minimize the changes to them. Of course two of those timelines were permanently changed with Loki’s escape and Thanos’ death. In the end Cap returned all the stones and then went to a new timeline where he lived with Peggy. He returned to the main timeline to give Sam the shield
They agreed upon "groups of four" when entering the quantum realm, so i'm assuming that's why Nat and Clint went with War Machine and Nebula, instead of going straight to Volmir right away.
Thor and Rocket were a team. Thatsa two
So when Captain America goes to return the Reality Stone, does he have put back inside Jane Foster?
No, what makes you think that? He could even put it on a different planet, as long as its in that universe its fine.
Technically yes they have to put them back where they found them as to not fracture the timeline.
-The Ancient One need the time stone back or else it would never end up in the hands of Dr Strange and he never would have stopped Dormammu
-the power stone needed to be back in the vault so Star Lord could find it and the events of Guardians
-the soul stone would be returned to Vormir and there are some discrepancies with as to what happened to the soul it took Gamora/Widow
-the reality Stone would need to be put “back in to Jane” as so the events of the Dark World could play out properly
-the space stone/tesseract would need to be put back in 1970 so the future of the MCU could play out as such
-the mind stone /scepter needed to be put back in the case right after avengers so that Wanda & Pietro would be created and eventually Vision
Like The Ancient One said they all form the time stream and if taken out of their path then it would create fractured and branching timelines so as to remedy that they can be taken out but must be put back where they were found as to recomplete the timestream
That's not what the ancient one was saying, there would still be multiple timelines. None of the other stones really matter, putting them back was kinda pointless, oh no a world without Vision, who cares
Ace Jaden Angel no she was saying that they need to be put back to keep the time stream in place. Remove them you create an alternate branching reality/timeline but if you put it back where it was the time stream would not be affected and no alternate realities would be created. They have to put them back or else they break time and interrupt the time stream creating many different timelines/realities.
Didn't get a post credit scene...but this 2 hr review will certainly fit the void!
The still best line of MCU : That's my secret Cap, I'm always angry....
"I like this one.... Another!"
Yeah r
Yeah Ty
Asgardians of the Galaxy Vol. 1 - The Hunt for Green Gamora
Greg says everyone can flip flop at the end, moment nick flip flops Greg puts him down 😞
He wasn't worthy to hold the hammer because he knew about Bucky killing Tony's parents. After Civil War he became worthy.
I don’t think Infinity War is incredibly rewatchable, it’s weird that everyone keeps saying that. To me, Infinity War is incredibly taxing emotionally even more so than this film in a weird way considering what happens. The snap is such a monumental defeat for our heroes and it feels like a gut punch every time, I am not happy or excited at the end of IF (not that that’s a bad thing)
One more thought...Hulk literally accidentally made a fountain of youth. He passed time through Scott Lang and turned him into a baby. Maybe he could do something similar on a certain old man on a bench :P
So I didn't see anyone say so in the comments, but I want to say they didn't send Hawkeye and Black Widow directly to Vormir because... Gamora and Thanos were the only ones who knew it's exact location after having gone there (based on a map that Gamora memorized and then destroyed, per Infinity War), and they're both dead.
Being teleported to a location you think you might know where it is (and possibly being wrong and then sent adrift in space and potentially wasting Pym Particles to be retrieved) is a lot different from letting the ship auto-pilot to where a place is meant to be, and then landing it there once you see it.
Does that make sense? Nebula only implies she knew where they went (IIRC), but not the exact quantum coordinates, or whatever. So they had to hoof it the last bit. We've either seen the other characters physically BE at the other locations (NYC and Camp Lehigh) or it's reasonable that they've been at some point for some reason or another. Nobody other than Thanos or Gamora should know precisely where Vormir is.
Wow. Shotout to Dabuque, Iowa!! Of all the cities here in Iowa to know, dunno how you pulled that one!
I was also blown away by that. I was like wow that's so cool!
How close is that to Des Moines?
After I saw Renner's haircut in the trailer, I got that hawk & had it for a year (pretty much til covid made me cut). I stand by that that cut is cool. Esp since I'm def a Hawkeye stan.
Still waiting for someone to explain just what makes Captain Marvel 'overpowered' in the same series where a guy has a suit that absorbs damage and reflects it and literal magic but someone who has glowy hands and a vendetta against spaceships is unfair
The "Avengers Assemble" moment didn't really hit me compared to most other things because I was just wondering how many of them could actually hear him
They all had coms.
U guys gonna do Star Wars in review before episode 9?
Now that would be good
I think they will but closer to episode 9
They already said they were going to in one of the mcu in review vids. Forget which one.
Nick took Kevin's hammer ROFL
YOU MADE ME WAIT FIVE DAYS FOR THIS. FIIIIIIVE DAYS. I WANTED THIS AS SOON AS I WALKED OUT OF THE THEATER.
looking back on this in 2021, andy might legitimately called how they bring black widow back in the loki series.
I've been listening to the podcast version while waiting for this. Awesome job as always, guys.
Felt as giddy after Endgame as I did after the first Avengers movie. Bravooooooo!
The entire point of that earthquake bit is to show how nothing is actually happening on Earth. Why do people just assume it’s a Namor reference?
Max Marriner bc it is
I really like Tim’s theory about the time travel, it makes the most sense, and it abides by all the rules given in the movie.
Tim completely understood the timeline! it was indeed an alternate timeline.
Imagine if hulk and widow went to get the soul stone instead. But only widow can sacrifice herself because the hulk cant die that easy.
I am so glad this review was longer than most of the others. Also Andy was saying they may have went too long with the time trace talk but at no point was I annoyed. Thanks for the epic review
Your top Marvel list is not that bad. To me, the First Guardians movie is better than the Second one.
Yall are looking way to much into this time line thing. I feel the movie did a pretty good job of explaining it. Nothing changes if you don't fuck with the stones. They put them back so nothing changes.
Nick trying to hide him tearing up made this video for me
Remember in Infinity War, right after Thanos snapped his finger, it jumps to the scene which shows Thanos himself and a young Gamora talking ? The "What does it cost ?" or something like that...
This time right after Hulk snapped his finger in the Avengers HQ, there should be a scene of him and Black Widow talking in the same place as Thanos and young Gamora. Talking about "Let's go I am bring you back" "I am afraid I can't go with you Bruce, a soul for a soul" something like that... Can you imagine this deleted scene ?
So that's why Hulk said "I tried to bring her back." later in the movie... Really would love to see that.
I wonder if Tony saw anything.
I’ve been really looking forward to this Video.
I saw Endgame twice, and It definitely went in a direction I never thought it would.
I think all in all I think Infinity way is a better movie. But I still find endgame as the perfect ending.
Kevs timetravel is not correct...Tim is right!
let's' be honest. when IS kev right??
Kevin just not getting the time lines (or you could say seeing the timelines differently than me tim Benny for from Comicstorian and the Russo Brothers) was the funniest part of this in review this watch
I love the small shining moments from the characters we know will be the future of the MCU - especially the Gauntlet being passed from Black Panther to Spider-Man to Captain Marvel. That plus Thor's future puts the MCU in an interesting place.
*I Guess we can thank Starlord for this awesome movie*
i read that the reason the music for the logo and title sound less impressive is because they were played with half of the normal orchestra
ahahahhaa was just gonna say y'all should have done the signature credits scene but the Kevin laugh is perfect
You guys talk about how bucky and cap know eachother so well and he says i'm gonna miss you
It's a callback to the first avenger where the roles are switched where Buckys leaving for the war and says: "Don't do anything crazy while i'm gone" and Steve replies: "How could I? You're taking all the crazy with you"
This is what they say to eachother when they don't know if they're going to come back so cap was saying to him that he's leaving
stupid* not crazy
When Tony comes back and Caps like "Tony!" i want someone to dub it over with Jeff Bridges' "TONAAAYYYY."
Marvel took a big steaming dump on HBO's parade last weekend
Brian Keogh not really
Listening to Kevin's time travel theories has been the most frustrating thing to do today haha. They explain it in the movie why can't he let go of the idea that they're changing the future by changing the past?
well pretty much any famous time travel movie is about going to the past to fix something in the future. Looper, Deadpool 2 credits, Terminator, whatever. People cant get the idea of agency and time as a linear flow out of their minds
There being "Two Captain Americas the whole time" doesn't work. That means you're accepting that everything the Avengers did while they were in the past, has affected the future. Not only did Hulk explain that kind of idea away by saying we can't change our present or future by changing the past, but also, Loki would have escaped with the Tessaract.
The whole point was that they were not going into the past to change the present, because that's not how time works in the MCU. That's why they were forced to bring new infinity stones to the present.
I watched it for the second time last night and noticed so many bittersweet intricate details I missed the last time. I noticed some dialogues because I knew the ending. I'll watch it at least one more time.
From what I understand the Stones just need to be returned to the exact moment they were removed from the timeline, so the Soul Stone doesn't go back to where it was with Red Skull protecting it. It just is returned to where Hawkeye removed it from that timeline
I've been reading Marvel comics my whole life. I'll never read the phrase "Avengers Assemble" again without thinking about this movie.
The crew's issue with Vormir is easy to explain. They don't know exactly where it is. The only people we know of that went there are both dead. Hawkeye has never been to space, and presumably Black Widow only once. Better to have Nebula do the driving, I would think. Also, it has zero impact on the plot, so it's moot.
The movie explains in the simplest way it can that there aren't multiple timelines. The Ancient One/Sorcerer Supreme shows us the timeline as it exists, and shows that alternate timelines are only created when an Infinity Stone is removed from a point in time.
What a way to end MCU in review at the end. 😂
The thing about old Cap messing up the time line that people aren't thinking about is that Cap created an alternate time line and we were in it the entire time.
That scene of Star-Lord singing to himself killed me
Ugh, I was on board the whole time until they ranked Thanos underneath MBJ's vanilla basic bitch "my daddy died so im cranky" villain.
Tim is correct, they specifically say you can't change the past of this timeline. When you change anything you create a separate timeline. Banner says if they put all the stones back, then taking the stones won't create a separate timeline, but taking the stones aren't the only thing that can change the timeline. That's why new Nebula can kill old Nebula and still be alive. Because those separate timelines can't change the main timeline that we've been living in since 2008. Cap lived with Peggy in another timeline and came back as an old man. Could have come back to the platform 30 minutes or a day before, because he knew they were going to be there at that exact time to send him back to return the stones and Mjolner. IGN also has a good video about it. But Tim is correct.
Nick STILL has Ragu Bagu fomo and it's freaking hilarious LOL.