ahh yeah thats not a con for me .. I can control that with my fingers... I like having the extra punch there when I make the decision to use it .. amps schmamps. :P
Every gram of weight, every millimeter of length, or the 1 degree of angle on a prop will Change Any Quad drastically? Knowing exactly what you want to excel at within the arena is paramount to the application of the right "Stuff" for a build. I didn't realize just how far this hobby had exploded but it's way beyond getting caught up on a neat sounding name for a motor/prop...... lmao, truly it's a new frontier & a wide expanse for the new person to digest. I do like your attempt to put this all together & the ones disliking you either don't understand or just don't like you because all of this helps if you want to understand how things work together...... thanks for the work >> peace
How much weight do you think is saved by taking a MM of thickness out of carbon? IE, the Diatone Crusader GT2 is a 5mm frame, and the quad has a dry weight of 300grams. Do you think making it a 4mm frame and thinning out the arms and center a bit along with an AIO and better 2205's would get it to that 250-gram number? Because I really like its design. Low profile, freedom of movement on the camera, perfect size, etc.
Bob. Where do I get those 2204 motors? We chatted before and I'm in the waiting list at pyroflip for the 2204s there but they look different to these black and orange versions. Great Vlogs bud.
It would be nice if you had like "perfect" build setups centered around these motors.Also, since the 2306 motors are a little heavy, would you still recommend the superlight frame, or would your EVO frame do it?
I was always pondering, why quad weights are discussed without battery. It makes like 50% of the quad weight sometimes and they can vary in weights very much. So stating the dry weight leaves me thinking, what battery I should chose? What overall weight is good for a quad? Maybe 1300mah is not gaining much benefit, but 1500 would give longer flights without any loss? So yeah, why we don't talk all up weights? :)
I think it's just because everyone likes to run different size/brand batteries. I prefer a battery that is 150g and that usually translates into a AUW of 550-600 with gopro session and heavy props.
Following all the discussion about lightweight Discload etc... I think the important number is the "wet" AUW: including prop, battery (4S), HDcam (if any) etc. Because that determines how much the Motor/Prop has to pull. It allmost doesnt matter if the weight comes from battery, frame or heavy motors. So IMHO the "magic weight" number is AUW. Kabab, can you tell us how much your battery adds on top, so we can do the math to your video?
That's the perfect information i needed for the Hyperfloss frame build on the Horizon. I really appreciate to have all the precious information you collected already. So that I can build the best possible build. 👍
Great info! Quick and basic question - the magical 250g weight for a 5inch, is that with or without props? I never know if dry weight includes props or not, although I suspect that it does.
@kabab fpv I'm awaiting delivery on a floss 2 build that should be below 220g with props on with the hyperlite 2204 2722 kv motors. definitely excited. do you think 1000mah>1300mah on an ultralight build?
Hi, I noticed the props on your quads seem to be mounted opposite to what the norm is. Can you please let me know if in fact you are running motors 1 (Right back) and 4 (left front) CCW and motors 2 and 3 CW and if so, why? Thanks, M
Even tho it seems you are saying building a 4" Hyperfloss is waste of time, how well (at a guess) will a 4" Hyperfloss weighing 250-270g with battery fly in your opinion? Also, how much flight time were you getting with 850mah and 1000mah 4S batteries on the 4"? Will it be a total pig on 3S at that weight with the 1407 Brothers?
in the 5" setup that you have in this video, I see that you are using the PyroDrone HyperLite F4 Flight Controller and the 4in1 ESC. My question is are you using OSD? because you don't have the RROSD PRO V2 and the FC doesn't support OSD.
Thanks Bob for this wonderful content. I know now that I am in the right direction of my experiments. We have the same ideas or concept, I am glad that it coincides with yours. :)
Yaaaaaas! Thank you again for another long and informative video. Absolutely love it as always. Why don't you like four inch, though? Is it just handling characteristics? I have heard that they require more throttle and more precise throttle control than five inch, but is it that bad? Is there simply more variety and choice for parts in the five inch category? Also, I do floss regularly now. Thank you.
So what would you recommend for a more beginner orientated build? These all seem to be steered more towards high performance builds. There's so many options out there.
I have got a mini quad called the JJPro P200, and it has Emax Red bottem 2205 2300kv, would a triblade or dualblade prop be better? right now im running the stock 5046 dualblade props and there were some crazy oscillations. would that be the prop or my tune. Cheers
What brand is that 2204 20g (with wires?) motor? Is ist available yet? I'm searching for a light weight motor for a 220 g setup on a merica frame for 5x4x3 or 5x4.3x3 max. Any suggestions? Was thinking of rotorama katana or T-Motor Air 40 or any in that weight class. Gonna use 1300 batteries so AUW will be ~370g
I got my dry weight down around 300g. Can you go over some strategies to shave weight? Pretty tough to get to 250g on a 5 inch quad. Are you including props in this figure?
Why do you like the T-motor f60 over the T-motor F40Pro? The F40Pro is 2306 (like the emax rs2306) but has better torque, more thrust and is lighter (check out miniquadtestbench). It is also tested at 2500kv.
This is a good point and my guess would be he just hasn't tried the F40Pro yet. Bet he'd also think they're way too heavy at 33g. But it's what I'm running at the moment and I quite like them
Luke Godeassi I have tried the F40pro and I would highly recommend the emax 2306 over them. they're not bad and even racerstar motors work, but if you're to buy it again, you'll get a better performing and far more durable motor with the emax option. the weight of these motors are just something you need to deal with.
Better performing in what way? As far as data on miniquadtestbench show, the F40pros are better performing in EVERY measurable way. I can understand if you are biased towards emax, but comparing racerstar to t-motors? Really? :) And as far as durability goes, the new RS2205s line has had some bell issues to put it mildly... So I'm not convinced about the emax2306.
Quality issues aside, when you fly the two side by side, you feel much more comfortable with the 2306. I'm not concerned with bench tests that are so similar. The 2306 has more torque and is more efficient at high RPM. Both are great motors. The Tmotor also feels very weak in the hand. I couldn't imagine it taking hits too well.
Great video. wish youd make a video on frames only and ...what's your thoughts on the Alien 5"? is it all hype? its very durable but chunky and heavy thanks
David R. Cohen I've done a few on frames. see my older videos. the alien is a great frame for two years ago. it's far too heavy and the layout is not ideal anymore. the H style frames fly very differently. a slightly wider X or long X fly significantly better in forward flight...I discuss all this and much more...
Also note that this is my opinion. If you talk to Steele or Chad, they'll tell you it doesn't matter and it's a great frame that's durable and whatever. That it is, I just feel there's better ways to go about things and absolutely not at the crazy high price of the ImpulseRC designs. Although I've followed the designer, Soma, from the very beginning and his work is very very good overall.
@Kabab FPV I was on the performance train for a while but then I noticed I was getting really short flight times (just under 3 min on a tattu R-line 1550 with Dal Cyclones). I'm still new in the hobby and am trying to find the opposite - longer flight times with less punch. I don't get to fly too often so I can get more air time and improve from the extra practice. So, what is the best approach for getting efficiency? It seems like your research might have a converse side that would be able to answer that question.
This is something I'll be making a video on soon. It pretty much has to do with your AUW. Lighter is more efficient no matter what. But yes, if you want performance it's gonna cost you. I usually don't get more than 2min. I just have many batteries.
Stay away from the 2305 size. It doesn't have the high end torque to manage most props. It overheats easily and is inefficient. At least most of the ones I've tested or see.
Thanks mate, I feel exactly the same about my F40v2 motors - they look good, feel kinda powerful but there's just something not right which I couldn't put in words... Such a shame
In all honesty how realistic do you think these numbers for weight you are throwing out are, using the majority of frames and components out there. My acro rig comes in at 327g with no bat or antenna. I didn't go all out for light weight but I used 28g 2206s, a 7g tbs vtx, titanium hardware, 30a escs just under 5 grams... I tried to use the smallest/lightest stuff I could find. Is my 96g skitzo frame that much of a porker? or should I stop worrying about it and just fly my shit cause it flies awesome.
That's right, the MAJORITY of frames are just not good. The weights I'm discussing here are very realistic. It's not even difficult to get well under 270g dry with the setups I'm flying. I just throw everything on the frame and it's like 260g.
I have been a fan of XNOVA for sometime now. Their quality control is top shelf since they have been in the helicopter game for some time. They sell a motor that is almost $1K! That being said, I have tried many different brands and its either XNOVA or Scorpion for me. Thx for all you do :)
Damn, I was gonna build that "chunky" EVO-frame for racing... So now, what is my best option if I wanna use the new Emax-Jesus props then? I wouldn't want it heavier so the 2306 might be too much right? Is the best move to go with BH 2207s at 30ish grams then?
What do you think about the RCX RS2206 V2 2400KV motor? it has .15mm lamination, EZO bearings, 7075 aluminium, N52SH arced, 4mm solid internal to 5mm (titanium?) hollow shaft and most importantly, $13 each.
IRFZ44 Excellent Excellent motor. of course not the very best considering the price but maybe 90% as good as the very best. I hope they make it in a 2207 2500kv
20:18 Does that mean you're going to discontinue that frame? I was planning on buying it but if I won't be able to get replacement parts I don't think I will. I'd be mounting a GoPro on it just about 100% of the time and I don't see a good way to mount it on your new frame.
I designed a session mount for the HyperLite SS and Evo both. Just for getting nice video before the real racing starts. Had to use the top plates to make my own bases for the mounts, but they are a perfect fit. Wish Brain3D didn't have the market cornered at Pyro or I could do some work for them.
Just a side note, DJI made the SNAIL propulsion system, with ESC, Motor, AND Props, all designed for each other. How the ESC works with current PID loops and timing, that's a whole other story, but still. :-) I love your videos man, I truly do, lots of info, keep'em coming!
I gotcha, makes sense. I know they designed them for the racing propulsion series they've been working on, but the way you explain that makes more sense then what I was thinking, as they could be utilized in their other offerings (if other kits were to ever surface lol) with the quick release adapters.
We like your opinions. The tornados are fragile. The emax motors are tough 2600kv are a little bit too much for my graphenes. If it is lighter than 250grams the battery won't have to work as hard. What about the brother hobby 1608 on the 4" ????
danlatu the 1608 is 28g or something crazy high. it really has no purpose. I don't think anyone should really run 4". it's just a super compromised size.
I'm not sure why people keep saying the Tornado's are fragile. They are on both my race quads and take a beating and keep going. The ones on my OB1 have been through hell and just keep going... that whole quad does though, heavy but is an absolute Tank.
The weight is without lipo and props? My current build with the heavy f40 motor without props and lipo is 280g and new arms are coming and than it will be below 270. With 2205 motors I get it ad 252 and the motors that I used where 29.5g. So I can easily go below the 236g.
I prefer not to sacrifice power for light weight but if you're racing, you don't need all the power in the world. The improved agility is usually gonna help more.
Besides yourself I also follow RCAddict around wherever he is in the sport /hobby. He suggested T-motor pro 2 2400kv for freestyle. After trying them I was hooked. Amazing performance. He loves those brother hobby motors for racing and he mostly Flys with those from what I can see. The T-motor pro 2 have titanium shafts, screws and no clips, good Japanese made bearings and perfect machining. I love learning from you both! Thanks and take care
Thanks for all the info, definitely satiating my need for knowledge on quadcopters, just getting started, can't wait to graduate to smaller and faster!
I'm new to flying. I started flying in November. All of my flights have been during winter. Now that its warm, I noticed my motors get hot, not so hot you can't touch them. Is this normal? I'm now running hyperlite 2206-2450. Team edition. I was running lumeniers. I swapped them out because I wanted to try something different. Thanks for the knowledge.
Hi nice motor ,i have a question that most people don`t know .How to connect that motor to a battery? It has 3 wires while the battery needs only 2 wires please answer my question ,what i know only is it is 3 phase motor.
I'm confused. You said that the magic number is 250g and yet lighter is always better. Do you mean that over 250g is bad but going under gives you performance gains?
Kabab, you did put me on addiction from Emax Avan props :) These are even better than Emax 2306 motors particularly because they have perfect control and can work even down to 2206 motor. I believe that they may work on more powerful 2205 motors too - I'll try them in new build with first generation Emax RS2205 2600KV red bottoms at next week. Bought a third bag of Avan-s FTW - they are amazing. Hyperlite motors are good and even not too expensive. Unfortunately only in US. To get them to Europe, I must to pay extra (shipping, customs) and they will become not cheap at all. 250 grams dry weight... I believe that it is not only to keep performance. Remembered about US UAV usage law that obliged to register all quads heavier than 425 grams :)
hi kabab! what do you think, is the emax 2306 2750kv also good with the avan prop or do you recomand another one? what is the max weight with this motor/kv setup? thx
I don't recommend any acro setup be heavier than ~575g. The 2306 in 2750kv is actually the good one. It's really 2630kv. You can run the triblade or twin blade on that motor.
Noob question: What do people mean when they say "5" quad"? One that can use 5" props? One with 5" arms? What happened to calling them by their motor to motor distance (250...)? Please educate me :)
can you post a link to those Emax props, I can't find them anywhere. Edit- forgive me, I seen this question has already been answered. Also I ordered 8 of the Emax 2306 2400kv yesterday so I feel good about the decision after watching this video, thank you!
Uhm, so my Tyrant S weight is about 370g.. :/ Should I just get the Emax RS2306 combo when it comes? Also, I only find the "White Edition". Is that the same?
PatrickRiccardo yeah white is the same as black. 370g dry is just too much. you need to hack off a good 50g. still gonna be sluggish but much better. at least for me. maybe you're fine with it.
Thanks for responding! It's a Diatone Tyrant S bind and fly, so I don't think it's easy to shave off any weight. I'm a noob anyway, so it might not matter that much yet. :P Just looking for some more power/torque, and was thinking that Emax Rs2306 2400kv might help out a bit compared to the stock sunnysky 2205 2300kn?
PatrickRiccardo I wouldn't invest any money into that but if you wanna swap motors, consider the rcx 2206 motor. it's a very good motor and cheap so not such an investment.
Good video bro. I'll initially be building up my 5" Hyperfloss with Emax RS2205s 2300kv (I have them on hand) and then I'll switch it over to the new 2204's when they come out. I can't wait to feel the difference between them. I'm building my 4" Hyperfloss very similar to yours. Should weigh in around 170 grams. I can't wait.
Kamal Khattak yes but you gotta choose your ESC carefully. the dipping and twisting issues are really annoying. buy at least 6 esc's at a time and expect to swap out one or two.
I dunno what a second race is but the best combo is the Emax triblade on the brother hobby 2207 2500kv motor. Monster power. The props aren't out yet however.
Not that you're reviews aren't objective but for full transparency, do you have any relationship with Hyperlite or BrotherHobby? More importantly, Waterpik - yay or nay?
Love watching your videos man! Keep it up! Also I can't wait to get my hyperfloss 4 inch! I'm not sure if I want to run the hyperlite 1407's with the two blade 4045 or tmotor f30 2800 kv with a bigger/heavier tri-blade.
Finally someone listened to me! (I know they didn't get the idea from me but still, and they did it the one after the other) Design a prop and motor to work well together, since that is most important.
is the 2207 2450 cobra motor good for racing my set yp is 330 gr what could i do i need really a lot of power for racing hard what frame motors to buy?????
Kabab FPV okay thanks! Didn't catch that. Looking forward to part 2.. nice work Bob! Also excited for 2207, I always hypothesized 2207 is best but problem would be to make it light.. looks like it's been solved to hit 31grams. since stator height is much more important for torque than width also it's better at high RPMs. Emax should of made 2207 instead of 2306
Jacob DeVries emax did loads of testing to arrive at 2306. based on this prop that was made for it, I think they made the right move. a 2207 will just be faster and pull more amps....which is what we all want so....?
Kabab FPV "what do you which is all we want sooo...?" Sarcasm? Like you say 2207 would be faster and more torque, but yes a little more amps although I'm sure unloaded in the air with a light craft it would be fine, would it not?
Damn...250gr...I thought I was light for my accro quad with 330gr dry. - 97gr frame - 4in1 ESC (X-Racer Quadrant 25A) - BFFC F3 - TBS Unify Pro - ZMX X25 Motors 2206-2300 - Frsky XSR - TBS triumph antenna (short one) - Cyclone 5x4.6x3 props - 1capacitor - rubber anti-vibration standoff - foxeer HS1170 fpv camera no HD cam, no mount... I wonder what kind of setup would be for a 250gr dry weight.
Drone Maniac for 5", the only ones I really know of are the Racekraft and one from Luminer that looks very similar. I'm not aware of others at this time. they're usually custom made. I'm trying to make it a more common scene.
Insert Kabab's Disclaimer here. Some of the older 2205 2550KV motors can generate a good amount of torque with the older props on 5S. You don't have to use the latest and greatest. I agree with the weight in some cases, but the problem is when you go too light the quad will float more or drop slower than you want. You got to point down more or blip the throttle go down quicker. Make sense?
Yeah, definitely. Q5040 and Dal T5045 (hybrid tip like the 5045BN V2) has an interesting effect with 5S. I've really like the Butter Cutters on 5S, but not the RaceKraft 5051 so much. I wish I could try the Gemfan 5152 you mentioned. I'm afraid the props will hit each other or the frame. Thanks. Sorry I can't keep up with your videos.
Agreed, you also have less momentum, so good luck trying to throw the quad over that tree over yonder. Of course Kabab will say just load up more battery, but if you need your battery to stay on in a crash, then that's a bad idea.
6" can handle much more weight than 5" but it's best to keep the AUW similar to a 5". Your battery choice is usually more variable as a 6" so AUW is more Important. 610g is very good, 630-660g is pretty typical, 700g is fine but it's now significantly cutting into performance.
bearing in mind your opinion will change in a week and you'll be saying that 2205 is the best. lol, last week you were saying that a 1407 motor will be best.
Sir Jacob well I've updated that and the emax prop was sent to me so there's zero point in a low torque motor anymore because of this prop. you won't want to run any other.
Kabab FPV Ok, well in a couple of weeks a new prop will be out and 2205 2300kv will be the fastest option! jk👌. Everything is a good option, it depends on where your at in the hobby and what your budget is. Even banggood if you're not serious.
ernie5229 lol tons of people call me out. some do it in a nice way, others spew hatred. I'm just sharing the most up to date info I have. when things change, I update my stance. the 1407 5" was awesome LOS and initial FPV. then I tried tuning it....
what's a good frame for a mid level race frame for those emax 2306 motors and their prop. what is a good frame weigh I should say for just the frame and hardware
Hey man I'm currently rocking 5 Hyperlite EVO frames with the RS2306. (the frame Kabab called chunky haha) But you can check out my channel too if you wanna see how the combo performs.
16x16 bolt holes are too close to the 7mm diameter center recess and which leaves very little carbon between the edge of the mount holes and the center recess which leave the motor structure weaker creating a weak point for breaking.for 2207 motors19x19mm is better, NOT 16x16.
I want that 2204. I want it now. Will I be able to use it? No. Because my quad is too heavy. I've also been trying to design a prop. While prop design is kinda hard, the math is cool. Issue I have run into is who to go to in order to actually make the prop. Can't go to HQ and be like "Hey, can you make this prop that is trying to replace yours?" Oh well, I'll figure it out. Awesome video! I always get excited when these style videos come out.
![“อาร์ต พศุตม์” เกือบเอี่ยวทุกคดีดัง เอ๊ะไว้ก่อน ไม่มีอะไรได้มาง่ายๆ | แฉ 16 ต.ค. 67 [2/3] | GMM25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0Gx-0-kUBv8/mqdefault.jpg)
MB 2207-2580 FTW
silicosick d Yup! 😉 I'm running both 2400kv and 2580kv, love the power and torque.
Do you prefer one over the other? Just wondering because I do.
Which? 😬 I see no cons to the 2580 on 5" ... but I don't know much...
silicosick I prefer the higher kv too. there is a con. it's pulling about 15A more at max in the air than the 2400. but it's so much faster
ahh yeah thats not a con for me .. I can control that with my fingers... I like having the extra punch there when I make the decision to use it .. amps schmamps. :P
Every gram of weight, every millimeter of length, or the 1 degree of angle on a prop
will Change Any Quad drastically? Knowing exactly what you want to excel at within
the arena is paramount to the application of the right "Stuff" for a build. I didn't realize
just how far this hobby had exploded but it's way beyond getting caught up on a neat
sounding name for a motor/prop...... lmao, truly it's a new frontier & a wide expanse
for the new person to digest. I do like your attempt to put this all together & the ones
disliking you either don't understand or just don't like you because all of this helps if
you want to understand how things work together...... thanks for the work >> peace
Keep this type of content coming!
Thanks,
Mike
Which one would you recommend for someone on a budget and who crashes a lot?
+LazerLord10 the 2205 2522kv for sure.
How much weight do you think is saved by taking a MM of thickness out of carbon? IE, the Diatone Crusader GT2 is a 5mm frame, and the quad has a dry weight of 300grams. Do you think making it a 4mm frame and thinning out the arms and center a bit along with an AIO and better 2205's would get it to that 250-gram number? Because I really like its design. Low profile, freedom of movement on the camera, perfect size, etc.
Bob. Where do I get those 2204 motors?
We chatted before and I'm in the waiting list at pyroflip for the 2204s there but they look different to these black and orange versions.
Great Vlogs bud.
It would be nice if you had like "perfect" build setups centered around these motors.Also, since the 2306 motors are a little heavy, would you still recommend the superlight frame, or would your EVO frame do it?
I'm gonna have those videos when I finally get my frames built right. I have some new acro options coming...
I was always pondering, why quad weights are discussed without battery. It makes like 50% of the quad weight sometimes and they can vary in weights very much. So stating the dry weight leaves me thinking, what battery I should chose? What overall weight is good for a quad? Maybe 1300mah is not gaining much benefit, but 1500 would give longer flights without any loss? So yeah, why we don't talk all up weights? :)
Because depending on the race or the area you can load up a different battery. Also, different batteries are different weights.
I think it's just because everyone likes to run different size/brand batteries. I prefer a battery that is 150g and that usually translates into a AUW of 550-600 with gopro session and heavy props.
Following all the discussion about lightweight Discload etc... I think the important number is the "wet" AUW: including prop, battery (4S), HDcam (if any) etc. Because that determines how much the Motor/Prop has to pull. It allmost doesnt matter if the weight comes from battery, frame or heavy motors. So IMHO the "magic weight" number is AUW. Kabab, can you tell us how much your battery adds on top, so we can do the math to your video?
Good video. I like the higher level educational content. Now I want some of those emax props for my emax 2306 motors. ugggg thanks!!
The blue and bronze Hyperlite 2207 2522kv motors currently available are NOT the ones you are talking about in this video, correct?
That's the perfect information i needed for the Hyperfloss frame build on the Horizon. I really appreciate to have all the precious information you collected already. So that I can build the best possible build. 👍
Great info! Quick and basic question - the magical 250g weight for a 5inch, is that with or without props? I never know if dry weight includes props or not, although I suspect that it does.
Luke Godeassi everything but GoPro and batt. that includes the GoPro mount if you're planning on running one.
@kabab fpv I'm awaiting delivery on a floss 2 build that should be below 220g with props on with the hyperlite 2204 2722 kv motors. definitely excited. do you think 1000mah>1300mah on an ultralight build?
Hi,
I noticed the props on your quads seem to be mounted opposite to what the norm is. Can you please let me know if in fact you are running motors 1 (Right back) and 4 (left front) CCW and motors 2 and 3 CW and if so, why?
Thanks,
M
Even tho it seems you are saying building a 4" Hyperfloss is waste of time, how well (at a guess) will a 4" Hyperfloss weighing 250-270g with battery fly in your opinion? Also, how much flight time were you getting with 850mah and 1000mah 4S batteries on the 4"? Will it be a total pig on 3S at that weight with the 1407 Brothers?
You get ~1min 45sec with an 850 4S on the 1407's with twin props. Judge from there. 4" is fine, just not for me.
in the 5" setup that you have in this video, I see that you are using the PyroDrone HyperLite F4 Flight Controller and the 4in1 ESC. My question is are you using OSD? because you don't have the RROSD PRO V2 and the FC doesn't support OSD.
Love your technical videos. keep up the great work!
So you don't like 3 inch, don't like 4 inch, and can't properly get into 2 inch.....
Is there ANYTHING you might recommend besides 5 inch?
This video gives me a goal and a starting point of learning. Please keep up the good work.
Are you still using the Spedix 20amp for your golden setup ? or a 30a ESC?
Subscribed. Good good stuff. Got tired of the oddness of other sources for technical info, found you. Keep it coming!
Thanks Bob for this wonderful content. I know now that I am in the right direction of my experiments. We have the same ideas or concept, I am glad that it coincides with yours. :)
Yaaaaaas! Thank you again for another long and informative video. Absolutely love it as always.
Why don't you like four inch, though? Is it just handling characteristics? I have heard that they require more throttle and more precise throttle control than five inch, but is it that bad? Is there simply more variety and choice for parts in the five inch category?
Also, I do floss regularly now. Thank you.
Scír Fahren well it's like it just maxed out. I like flying with power overhead. the 4" is like pegged at max throttle half the time.
What motor would you recomend for Armattan Chameleon 5" build? (Its gonna be heavy do)
Ouuuuhhh, okay. That seems reasonable.Yeah. Rather have power that could save you than wish you had more after a crash.
So what would you recommend for a more beginner orientated build? These all seem to be steered more towards high performance builds. There's so many options out there.
I've got a video on that and I'll have another shortly
I have got a mini quad called the JJPro P200, and it has Emax Red bottem 2205 2300kv, would a triblade or dualblade prop be better? right now im running the stock 5046 dualblade props and there were some crazy oscillations. would that be the prop or my tune. Cheers
What brand is that 2204 20g (with wires?) motor? Is ist available yet? I'm searching for a light weight motor for a 220 g setup on a merica frame for 5x4x3 or 5x4.3x3 max. Any suggestions? Was thinking of rotorama katana or T-Motor Air 40 or any in that weight class. Gonna use 1300 batteries so AUW will be ~370g
I got my dry weight down around 300g. Can you go over some strategies to shave weight? Pretty tough to get to 250g on a 5 inch quad. Are you including props in this figure?
Mark Pfeifer yes. all included but batt and GoPro. even batt strap. I'll make a video on that.
What sense does it make to look at the dry weight? Quad can't fly without lipo. What is the golden weight for 5' 4s quad? ;) regards! U do great job!
The reason dry weight is a good metric is because your battery weight is so variable from battery to battery.
I've done lots of videos on weight....it's ultimately your own preference but for 5" acro I prefer 580g AUW
Kabab FPV thanks! 580 will be my goal now :)
Why do you like the T-motor f60 over the T-motor F40Pro? The F40Pro is 2306 (like the emax rs2306) but has better torque, more thrust and is lighter (check out miniquadtestbench). It is also tested at 2500kv.
This is a good point and my guess would be he just hasn't tried the F40Pro yet. Bet he'd also think they're way too heavy at 33g. But it's what I'm running at the moment and I quite like them
emax rs2306 are heavier and he is recommending those.
Luke Godeassi I have tried the F40pro and I would highly recommend the emax 2306 over them. they're not bad and even racerstar motors work, but if you're to buy it again, you'll get a better performing and far more durable motor with the emax option. the weight of these motors are just something you need to deal with.
Better performing in what way? As far as data on miniquadtestbench show, the F40pros are better performing in EVERY measurable way. I can understand if you are biased towards emax, but comparing racerstar to t-motors? Really? :)
And as far as durability goes, the new RS2205s line has had some bell issues to put it mildly... So I'm not convinced about the emax2306.
Quality issues aside, when you fly the two side by side, you feel much more comfortable with the 2306. I'm not concerned with bench tests that are so similar. The 2306 has more torque and is more efficient at high RPM. Both are great motors. The Tmotor also feels very weak in the hand. I couldn't imagine it taking hits too well.
Great video. wish youd make a video on frames only and ...what's your thoughts on the Alien 5"? is it all hype?
its very durable but chunky and heavy
thanks
David R. Cohen I've done a few on frames. see my older videos. the alien is a great frame for two years ago. it's far too heavy and the layout is not ideal anymore. the H style frames fly very differently. a slightly wider X or long X fly significantly better in forward flight...I discuss all this and much more...
Excellent! i was just about to pull the trigger, give in to the steele hype and pay 130$ just for frame. thank you
Also note that this is my opinion. If you talk to Steele or Chad, they'll tell you it doesn't matter and it's a great frame that's durable and whatever. That it is, I just feel there's better ways to go about things and absolutely not at the crazy high price of the ImpulseRC designs. Although I've followed the designer, Soma, from the very beginning and his work is very very good overall.
Have you been doing any 6-inch builds/testing? I'd like to see your opinion on 6-inch vs. 5-inch.
I'm not a fan of 6", just less agility. Brian Morris claims 5.5" is the best size. We don't have any good props in that size so I'll stick to 5"
@Kabab FPV I was on the performance train for a while but then I noticed I was getting really short flight times (just under 3 min on a tattu R-line 1550 with Dal Cyclones). I'm still new in the hobby and am trying to find the opposite - longer flight times with less punch. I don't get to fly too often so I can get more air time and improve from the extra practice.
So, what is the best approach for getting efficiency? It seems like your research might have a converse side that would be able to answer that question.
This is something I'll be making a video on soon. It pretty much has to do with your AUW. Lighter is more efficient no matter what. But yes, if you want performance it's gonna cost you. I usually don't get more than 2min. I just have many batteries.
Good vid as usual - we do wanna all the technical stuff indeed :)
What about the 2305 motors? Have you had a chance to test/try any?
Stay away from the 2305 size. It doesn't have the high end torque to manage most props. It overheats easily and is inefficient. At least most of the ones I've tested or see.
Thanks mate, I feel exactly the same about my F40v2 motors - they look good, feel kinda powerful but there's just something not right which I couldn't put in words... Such a shame
In all honesty how realistic do you think these numbers for weight you are throwing out are, using the majority of frames and components out there. My acro rig comes in at 327g with no bat or antenna. I didn't go all out for light weight but I used 28g 2206s, a 7g tbs vtx, titanium hardware, 30a escs just under 5 grams... I tried to use the smallest/lightest stuff I could find. Is my 96g skitzo frame that much of a porker? or should I stop worrying about it and just fly my shit cause it flies awesome.
That's right, the MAJORITY of frames are just not good. The weights I'm discussing here are very realistic. It's not even difficult to get well under 270g dry with the setups I'm flying. I just throw everything on the frame and it's like 260g.
I have been a fan of XNOVA for sometime now. Their quality control is top shelf since they have been in the helicopter game for some time. They sell a motor that is almost $1K! That being said, I have tried many different brands and its either XNOVA or Scorpion for me.
Thx for all you do :)
Xnova is excellent, just expensive and heavy.
Damn, I was gonna build that "chunky" EVO-frame for racing...
So now, what is my best option if I wanna use the new Emax-Jesus props then? I wouldn't want it heavier so the 2306 might be too much right?
Is the best move to go with BH 2207s at 30ish grams then?
Ludvig Lam light frame and 2206 is a monster. keep it under 260g for fantastic performance
What do you think about the RCX RS2206 V2 2400KV motor? it has .15mm lamination, EZO bearings, 7075 aluminium, N52SH arced, 4mm solid internal to 5mm (titanium?) hollow shaft and most importantly, $13 each.
IRFZ44 Excellent Excellent motor. of course not the very best considering the price but maybe 90% as good as the very best. I hope they make it in a 2207 2500kv
20:18 Does that mean you're going to discontinue that frame? I was planning on buying it but if I won't be able to get replacement parts I don't think I will. I'd be mounting a GoPro on it just about 100% of the time and I don't see a good way to mount it on your new frame.
it's gonna stick around. we also have a good GoPro mount coming for the light stuff. I also have a much better acro frame coming too.
Kabab FPV Oh nice! Can't wait to see the new frame!
I designed a session mount for the HyperLite SS and Evo both. Just for getting nice video before the real racing starts. Had to use the top plates to make my own bases for the mounts, but they are a perfect fit. Wish Brain3D didn't have the market cornered at Pyro or I could do some work for them.
Just a side note, DJI made the SNAIL propulsion system, with ESC, Motor, AND Props, all designed for each other. How the ESC works with current PID loops and timing, that's a whole other story, but still. :-) I love your videos man, I truly do, lots of info, keep'em coming!
Tom Coffel their props seem to be general designs. not aerodynamically made for the motor.
I gotcha, makes sense. I know they designed them for the racing propulsion series they've been working on, but the way you explain that makes more sense then what I was thinking, as they could be utilized in their other offerings (if other kits were to ever surface lol) with the quick release adapters.
We like your opinions. The tornados are fragile. The emax motors are tough 2600kv are a little bit too much for my graphenes. If it is lighter than 250grams the battery won't have to work as hard. What about the brother hobby 1608 on the 4" ????
danlatu the 1608 is 28g or something crazy high. it really has no purpose. I don't think anyone should really run 4". it's just a super compromised size.
I'm not sure why people keep saying the Tornado's are fragile. They are on both my race quads and take a beating and keep going. The ones on my OB1 have been through hell and just keep going... that whole quad does though, heavy but is an absolute Tank.
The weight is without lipo and props? My current build with the heavy f40 motor without props and lipo is 280g and new arms are coming and than it will be below 270. With 2205 motors I get it ad 252 and the motors that I used where 29.5g. So I can easily go below the 236g.
I prefer not to sacrifice power for light weight but if you're racing, you don't need all the power in the world. The improved agility is usually gonna help more.
Is your dryweight with props and nuts?
the only long video that i appreciate.. gain
ed more knowledge with each new vid.. 👍
Besides yourself I also follow RCAddict around wherever he is in the sport /hobby. He suggested T-motor pro 2 2400kv for freestyle. After trying them I was hooked. Amazing performance. He loves those brother hobby motors for racing and he mostly Flys with those from what I can see. The T-motor pro 2 have titanium shafts, screws and no clips, good Japanese made bearings and perfect machining. I love learning from you both! Thanks and take care
I just like the taller Staters much much more than wider
watching your vidz is like peering into my future self of ability and comprehension, lol. still love it, though
What is dry weight considered with quads? Just the frame, the frame and all gear except the motors, everything but the battery?
Fast Freddy everything but battery and HD cam of your planning on using one
What do you think of the emax rs2205 2700kv? What prop would do good on this? Is a tri blade too much?
Good motor. Put the DAL 5050x2 on it. It'll be awesome.
Thanks for all the info, definitely satiating my need for knowledge on quadcopters, just getting started, can't wait to graduate to smaller and faster!
About to upgrade motors from my 1806 2300's...what kv for the emax's work with the prop the best? The 2400 or 2750?
reboot 1 they will have a prop for both the 2400 and 2750
I'm new to flying. I started flying in November. All of my flights have been during winter. Now that its warm, I noticed my motors get hot, not so hot you can't touch them. Is this normal? I'm now running hyperlite 2206-2450. Team edition. I was running lumeniers. I swapped them out because I wanted to try something different. Thanks for the knowledge.
your D term might be too high or you have a lot of vibrations in your setup.
Or you have motor screws touching the windings, but i'd expect it to desync as well as get hot.
Thanks for your insite, Keep up the good work!
Hi nice motor ,i have a question that most people don`t know .How to connect that motor to a battery? It has 3 wires while the battery needs only 2 wires please answer my question ,what i know only is it is 3 phase motor.
umm.. connect the three cable to speed three cables from the speed controller(ESC)?? and connect the two cables from speed controller to battery??
Thank you.
I'm confused. You said that the magic number is 250g and yet lighter is always better. Do you mean that over 250g is bad but going under gives you performance gains?
the 250g mark is the magic sweet spot for 5"
Where can you get the Emax props for the RS2306? Also, which KV of the 2306 should be on the acro setup?
image they have a prop for the 2400 and the 2750. they're not out yet. really hope they come soon
can you also use the white series of the emax motor with 2400kv or 2700kv, and what kv would you choose with these props
They have a prop for each motor. It's basically just what you like. High kv low torque or high torque lower speed
Kabab, you did put me on addiction from Emax Avan props :) These are even better than Emax 2306 motors particularly because they have perfect control and can work even down to 2206 motor. I believe that they may work on more powerful 2205 motors too - I'll try them in new build with first generation Emax RS2205 2600KV red bottoms at next week. Bought a third bag of Avan-s FTW - they are amazing.
Hyperlite motors are good and even not too expensive. Unfortunately only in US. To get them to Europe, I must to pay extra (shipping, customs) and they will become not cheap at all.
250 grams dry weight... I believe that it is not only to keep performance. Remembered about US UAV usage law that obliged to register all quads heavier than 425 grams :)
hi kabab! what do you think, is the emax 2306 2750kv also good with the avan prop or do you recomand another one? what is the max weight with this motor/kv setup? thx
I don't recommend any acro setup be heavier than ~575g. The 2306 in 2750kv is actually the good one. It's really 2630kv. You can run the triblade or twin blade on that motor.
thx bro! go ahead!
Noob question: What do people mean when they say "5" quad"? One that can use 5" props? One with 5" arms? What happened to calling them by their motor to motor distance (250...)? Please educate me :)
Marlon Clark no we don't really go by frame size anymore. there are some 250mm quads that can almost fit 7" so we just go by prop size
Cool, thanks for the reply!
can you post a link to those Emax props, I can't find them anywhere.
Edit- forgive me, I seen this question has already been answered. Also I ordered 8 of the Emax 2306 2400kv yesterday so I feel good about the decision after watching this video, thank you!
They're not out yet
Uhm, so my Tyrant S weight is about 370g.. :/ Should I just get the Emax RS2306 combo when it comes?
Also, I only find the "White Edition". Is that the same?
PatrickRiccardo yeah white is the same as black. 370g dry is just too much. you need to hack off a good 50g. still gonna be sluggish but much better. at least for me. maybe you're fine with it.
Thanks for responding! It's a Diatone Tyrant S bind and fly, so I don't think it's easy to shave off any weight. I'm a noob anyway, so it might not matter that much yet. :P Just looking for some more power/torque, and was thinking that Emax Rs2306 2400kv might help out a bit compared to the stock sunnysky 2205 2300kn?
PatrickRiccardo I wouldn't invest any money into that but if you wanna swap motors, consider the rcx 2206 motor. it's a very good motor and cheap so not such an investment.
Kabab FPV Yeah maybe you're right. I'll look into that one. Love your vids btw, keep em coming! Thanks again
Good video bro. I'll initially be building up my 5" Hyperfloss with Emax RS2205s 2300kv (I have them on hand) and then I'll switch it over to the new 2204's when they come out. I can't wait to feel the difference between them. I'm building my 4" Hyperfloss very similar to yours. Should weigh in around 170 grams. I can't wait.
I know my Phantom 3 isn't considered a racing quad. But is there any way to make it faster?
+MrDoggielover88 lol no.
I have the t-motor F60 PRO 2207 2500kv on my quad, do you think it can handle a big beefy prop like the gemfan 5152 or the emax prop??
Yes definitely
Kabab FPV thanks, you ate the man! Love you
are you including the props in the dry weight?
EVERYTHING but the gpro and batt. Includes even the batt strap. ALL of it.
Will a 20a esc suffice for a 2205 2400-2500kv with the 5152 or the 5040 triblade for a lightish quad?
Kamal Khattak yes but you gotta choose your ESC carefully. the dipping and twisting issues are really annoying. buy at least 6 esc's at a time and expect to swap out one or two.
Kabab FPV what do you mean by dipping and twisting? Any ESC you recommend for Emax 2306 + Emax prop?
What what s the best motor prop combination for a 4s second race quadcopter pilot today
I dunno what a second race is but the best combo is the Emax triblade on the brother hobby 2207 2500kv motor. Monster power. The props aren't out yet however.
Not that you're reviews aren't objective but for full transparency, do you have any relationship with Hyperlite or BrotherHobby? More importantly, Waterpik - yay or nay?
Love watching your videos man! Keep it up! Also I can't wait to get my hyperfloss 4 inch! I'm not sure if I want to run the hyperlite 1407's with the two blade 4045 or tmotor f30 2800 kv with a bigger/heavier tri-blade.
Adam Billings I would recommend the 1407 and keep it light.
Also will there ever be an option to buy extra arms for the hyperfloss if I ever wanted to upgrade to 5 inch arms?
When you are saying dry weight is that including gopro or no?
dry is everything but battery and HD cam (gopro)
What are your thoughts on mr steele motors?
Finally someone listened to me! (I know they didn't get the idea from me but still, and they did it the one after the other) Design a prop and motor to work well together, since that is most important.
Seriously took forever but damn is it a good one.
the only Brother Hobby 2207 I can think of is the Multicopterbuilder - are there any others?
Stephen Wright ya like one or two others.
BoltRC W2207 looks nice...think thats BH...
please tell me where I can get those emax props! oh ok, I finished watching! I want some of those motors!
What's the advantage of running the props like this (other way around?)
Depronkleber I did a video on it a few back. called Yaw direction or something like that. on my phone so sorry no link
Yes thanks - found it
I love the Emax rs2306 2750kv motors. I have hit 145mph with these on a 320g quad with 5x4.6x2 props. they are rediculous fast.
I love ur vids mate..dont stop
Great video man. Pleased to see you like BrotherHobby again :-)
is the 2207 2450 cobra motor good for racing my set yp is 330 gr what could i do i need really a lot of power for racing hard what frame motors to buy?????
?
I'm not totally sure what you're asking. 330g is quite hefty for a racing quad.
It seems like having the open bottom on the 2204 will make it much less durable. Not sure if that's true. Any thoughts?
Jacob DeVries if you listen to the video, the open bottom is lighter and stronger. at 6:00
Kabab FPV okay thanks! Didn't catch that. Looking forward to part 2.. nice work Bob! Also excited for 2207, I always hypothesized 2207 is best but problem would be to make it light.. looks like it's been solved to hit 31grams. since stator height is much more important for torque than width also it's better at high RPMs. Emax should of made 2207 instead of 2306
Jacob DeVries emax did loads of testing to arrive at 2306. based on this prop that was made for it, I think they made the right move. a 2207 will just be faster and pull more amps....which is what we all want so....?
Kabab FPV "what do you which is all we want sooo...?" Sarcasm? Like you say 2207 would be faster and more torque, but yes a little more amps although I'm sure unloaded in the air with a light craft it would be fine, would it not?
Kabab FPV what do you mean "which is what we all want so..."? Is what I meant. was that sarcasm?
nice job bro and thank you for all the info..keep up the good work
very!very! helpfull I
was waiting for this
Can't wait for the finalized version off the HyperFloss!
Damn...250gr...I thought I was light for my accro quad with 330gr dry.
- 97gr frame
- 4in1 ESC (X-Racer Quadrant 25A)
- BFFC F3
- TBS Unify Pro
- ZMX X25 Motors 2206-2300
- Frsky XSR
- TBS triumph antenna (short one)
- Cyclone 5x4.6x3 props
- 1capacitor
- rubber anti-vibration standoff
- foxeer HS1170 fpv camera
no HD cam, no mount...
I wonder what kind of setup would be for a 250gr dry weight.
acro will handle a little more weight because you're not speeding around like a madd man
What frames would you recommend for a good performance racing quad?
Ritvik Nesargi under 50g frame.
Kabab FPV can you tell me the Name of some 5" 50-70g Frame please... i cant find very much
Drone Maniac for 5", the only ones I really know of are the Racekraft and one from Luminer that looks very similar. I'm not aware of others at this time. they're usually custom made. I'm trying to make it a more common scene.
I agree the emax 2306 motor is well balanced on my 273 gram acro frame. Happy with it (:
what do you think of the hypetrain motors?....
No comment. 😑
how about EMAX RSII..2306-1900kv -1700kv i just respect your opinion
Insert Kabab's Disclaimer here. Some of the older 2205 2550KV motors can generate a good amount of torque with the older props on 5S. You don't have to use the latest and greatest. I agree with the weight in some cases, but the problem is when you go too light the quad will float more or drop slower than you want. You got to point down more or blip the throttle go down quicker. Make sense?
Michael Steele 5S in general is just lots more torque on any motor. any quad with 5S just feels tighter.
Yeah, definitely. Q5040 and Dal T5045 (hybrid tip like the 5045BN V2) has an interesting effect with 5S. I've really like the Butter Cutters on 5S, but not the RaceKraft 5051 so much. I wish I could try the Gemfan 5152 you mentioned. I'm afraid the props will hit each other or the frame. Thanks. Sorry I can't keep up with your videos.
Agreed, you also have less momentum, so good luck trying to throw the quad over that tree over yonder. Of course Kabab will say just load up more battery, but if you need your battery to stay on in a crash, then that's a bad idea.
Not sure what you mean. I fly up and down mountains and straight aways. I stay away from trees they are not tall enough.
I run a freestyle 6”, what should my dry weight be?
6" can handle much more weight than 5" but it's best to keep the AUW similar to a 5". Your battery choice is usually more variable as a 6" so AUW is more Important. 610g is very good, 630-660g is pretty typical, 700g is fine but it's now significantly cutting into performance.
where can i get one of those awesome 2204 2522kv motors?
When that motors will be available?
*hate comment*
Please floss the hate out of your mouF
P l e a s e f l o s s t h e h a t e o u t o f y o u r m o u F
You guys are great. I'm new to your channel kabab
Mr Steele I haven't seen much from you lately Steele. You ok? I miss you man
Mr Steele you need to run a Diamond TBS antenna for your receiver and transmitter :)
really thanks for doing this videos
Hi
250g ready to fly? Only without the battery?
vvsousa correct. no batt no HD cam
thanks
What do you mean by "dry weight"? Sorry I'm new to all this.
Guitars & Motorcycles everything minus the battery
bearing in mind your opinion will change in a week and you'll be saying that 2205 is the best. lol, last week you were saying that a 1407 motor will be best.
Sir Jacob well I've updated that and the emax prop was sent to me so there's zero point in a low torque motor anymore because of this prop. you won't want to run any other.
Kabab FPV Ok, well in a couple of weeks a new prop will be out and 2205 2300kv will be the fastest option! jk👌. Everything is a good option, it depends on where your at in the hobby and what your budget is. Even banggood if you're not serious.
Is there any other info on the emax prop anywhere? I am very intrigued by these, I am running rs2205s 2300kv's and 2306 2400kv
Nice to see someone finally call this guy out!
ernie5229 lol tons of people call me out. some do it in a nice way, others spew hatred. I'm just sharing the most up to date info I have. when things change, I update my stance. the 1407 5" was awesome LOS and initial FPV. then I tried tuning it....
How is the temp and amp draw of F60 pro 2500kv with the 5152?
The 5152 is generally mid to high draw overall regardless of the motor
what's a good frame for a mid level race frame for those emax 2306 motors and their prop. what is a good frame weigh I should say for just the frame and hardware
Hey man I'm currently rocking 5 Hyperlite EVO frames with the RS2306. (the frame Kabab called chunky haha) But you can check out my channel too if you wanna see how the combo performs.
Furadi yeah dude your insane I've seen a few of your vids. what is your auw and dry weight without GoPro. also how do you mount your GoPro
All of my builds are right around 325g. I use the EVO slant back so the gopro just sits right on the slant plate.
What is the weight of the frame only I can't seem to find it. I see how you mount your GoPro tho very smart of them to have it built in
I just got done building my Evo 5-inch and Evo 6 inch! Now I gotta build an ultra-light dang it
The Prop that no one else can get lol
Fran Galasso seriously. so annoying. can't wait for everyone else to try it.
I'm no DJI fan but they they matched props to motor with the Snails
They just made a 5" prop. I'm not sure it's tailored to the motor. At least it definitely doesn't seem that way.
16x16 bolt holes are too close to the 7mm diameter center recess and which leaves very little carbon between the edge of the mount holes and the center recess which leave the motor structure weaker creating a weak point for breaking.for 2207 motors19x19mm is better, NOT 16x16.
I want that 2204. I want it now. Will I be able to use it? No. Because my quad is too heavy.
I've also been trying to design a prop. While prop design is kinda hard, the math is cool. Issue I have run into is who to go to in order to actually make the prop. Can't go to HQ and be like "Hey, can you make this prop that is trying to replace yours?" Oh well, I'll figure it out.
Awesome video! I always get excited when these style videos come out.
Prop design is very difficult and all math. HQ won't listen to you or anyone but Chad.
Kabab FPV No suprise. It's HQ, they don't really need to listen to anyone but a few top pilots.