Great Video Reg, this video reminded me of this... A giant ship engine failed. The ship’s owners tried one expert after another, but none of them could figure but how to fix the engine. Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing ships since he was young. He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he immediately went to work. He inspected the engine very carefully, top to bottom. Two of the ship’s owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would know what to do. After looking things over, the old man reached into his bag and pulled out a small hammer. He gently tapped something. Instantly, the engine lurched into life. He carefully put his hammer away. The engine was fixed! A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for ten thousand dollars. “What?!” the owners exclaimed. “He hardly did anything!” So they wrote the old man a note saying, “Please send us an itemized bill. The man sent a bill that read: Tapping with a hammer………………….. $ 2.00 Knowing where to tap…………………….. $ 9,998.00 Effort is important, but knowing where to make an effort makes all the difference!
That's the absolute best parable I've heard for experience-rates (though usually such fees are almost implicit, cannot fathom anyone ever brought in Reg and then tried to pay him what they pay their own guy for a regular job!) "Hazardous" situations aren't always purely an experience thing but then again tree work is quite a different animal than most other trades!
For the new subscribers . The archives are worth every moment watched . Every video this guy makes is gold . A welth of knowledge . Thanks for the videos Reg
@@phillipvaughn5719 when your watching a video click on the channel name . Reg Coates . At the top of the screen there will be a part that says videos . Click on that and thenThey all come up .
I have watched almost all of Reg`s videos, and was familiar with all of the clips he showed in this video. The vast amount of knowledge, and experience he brings to a job MUST come with a price especially when doing jobs with heightened personal risk, and material risk. If not, then you are saying you are no better than a green horn, and what you bring to the table does not count, or matter.
@@phillipvaughn5719 Just hit the video button in reg's channel then they should be there, reg once said if you do it on a computer there are more shown than on a iPad or other hand held things 😉👍
I agree either “You can” or “You can’t”, and a lot of that comes down to experience, you’re obviously a very wise and experienced person and your knowledge is worth a lot, and quite honestly worth more money based on that. I own a tree business and if I was to have you contract climb for me I’d gladly pay you more for your tools and experience and knowledge. All that being said I feel the same way you do. I’m not money driven as I try to do people right wheather they know better or no, I don’t just charge more just because they don’t know what they are looking at or talking about. I try to do people right no matter what. That’s what I appreciate about you, you’re honest, knowledgeable and humble. I do think there’s alot more risk involved in hazardous trees, me personally there’s a point you cross to where the tree has to come down because it’s too great a risk to leave as is, in that case I go with my gut and charge more according to the level of risk damaging objects, gear or personnel. If the tree is that hazardous even doing everything right pieces of the tree can break off and damage nearby objects that a healthy tree wouldn’t have done and at the end of the day that damaged item falls back on the tree guy. So I may or may not charge more money. But I definitely consider it. Hopefully that explains my thoughts. I really appreciate all your videos, you’re a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate your honesty.
I almost never comment… Reg, I’m sure there are a few better climbers in the world who are probably better than you, but you confidently and expertly deal with tree scenarios that are beyond many other arborist’s capabilities and/or comforts. If you were playing baseball or basketball etc, you would make 10’s of millions a year You’re a legit internationally famous shoot’em between the eyes gunslinger of the tree world, literally respected around the world by everyone who knows who you are. I think if you wanted you could charge more than any other service around and still stay as busy as you please…. more $$ , less time on the job, more time for what you love On that note though, you do what brings you happiness in your life. With respect 🖖
I follow your reasoning of you can or you can’t yet I also feel that it would make sense to charge more for a Hazardous Tree because your level of Experience is why you can. Thanx for sharing!
When it's your own business, there are so many factors at work - not just the job but the wider business picture - overheads, cash flow and such. Also there is the relationship with the customer and how, on a personal level, you feel to charge that customer. And there is the competitive aspect to pricing - giving the customer the right price so they can use you (who will do a good job) rather than someone else (who might not. If your business is working well, it's not always about securing the work because you need it, but because you want to do the work for that customer. I don't think it's as simple as 'it's more dangerous therefore automatically charge more.' When working for someone else, and they specifically get you in because you have a particular specialism, i think it is worth considering pricing your work with that as a consideration (also because the company to whom you are subcontracting will, most likely, have put the danger/complexity into their price). Great vid as always. Good discussion.
I appreciate this discussion Reg. Good points and stories. I personally always charge more with my business when bidding danger/hazard trees. Depending on the trees condition and how that increases potential risks to me and property I might charge 30% more to double what i would charge for the same job if the tree was healthy. A few reasons: 1- My life is valuable. I and my family deserve greater competition if i am going to put myself at a greater risk. 2- I move slower and more calculated to minimize risk. So the job take longer than it would healthy. 3- A brain surgeon makes more in a 4 hr surgery than a family doctor would in the same amount of time. The reason is that fewer are qualified or capable to do the task. If it takes (like in your case) 30 years to gain the needed skill to do a job that 5 other companies refuse.. you have earned greater pay since you are one of the few qualified. 4- To keep pricing competitive. The majority of the other companies biding hazard trees would also raise their prices. Thats my take. 😊
Oh and much respect to your profession you guys have to be in crazy condition to do your job , I'm learning first hand my core is in need of training !
I could listen to Reg talk for days. I've never spent more than 2 minutes watching one of his videos without learning something. Much Respect Reg thank you!
I charged more for the installation of shingles on roofs that had a steep pitch or for 2 story homes because they were more time consuming and dangerous. Why shouldn't you be charging more for dangerous trees ?
Hi Reg, I’m not surprised that this came up after talking with a lawyer. Different hourly rates are often applied when pricing up work of a differing nature. All of the ‘professions’ work on a cost basis built around 2 areas; knowledge and skill based qualifications. The skill is built up through practice and understanding, applying learnt principles repeatedly in different scenarios builds on your ability to read new situations, developing skills to a high level. This leads to the accumulation of knowledge, which we all have different capacities for. You obviously have an advanced capacity for applying this knowledge, referring to it as intuition. Intuition without knowledge is just guess work. That level of knowledge is considered to be a valuable commodity in every working scenario, as demonstrated by companies consistently requesting your presence, when they do not have the confidence within their own company to send staff to complete a job. There are a great number of climbers out there, not all have the ability to climb to 200 feet with confidence, fewer still have gained the knowledge to enable them to make critical decisions, relying on observation from the ground. That knowledge is scarce in the climbing community so has a premium attached to it. I don’t think it has anything to do with the tree being dangerous or not. If you have the experience to tackle a job it’s a days work like any other. What is valuable is the ability to make the correct decision repeatedly, with confidence, and being proven right on completing the job. So yes charge more for that, a fee on top of your normal day rate and you’ll still get the work.
I kinda figure the price of a “hazard” tree sorta works itself out. To Explain, when I price trees I mainly go off the time and resources needed to complete the job in a safe and predictable manner. The more hazardous the tree, the more the technique dictates time and resources. So I don’t personally add a hazard clause to my pricing, it kinda adds up automatically. I figure out a hourly/daily rate for all involved and sometimes I might figure the worst case scenario just to cover my bases in case the plan changes once I’m in the tree…maybe throw in some crane hours 🤷♂️ What do I know though, been figuring it out as I go. Thanks Reg for inspiring some constructive commentary 👍
Yeah, that's how I roll as well. The more complex a job, the more I allow for potential "what ifs" and "in case of"... It's about covering all eventualities...
The more you have to use your skill and experience to get the job done without injury, the more you charge. If you charge more to remove a tree leaning over a house because of the danger to property that you essentially promise to avoid, it's the same as when the danger is instead that you be injured or killed and you use skill and experience to avoid that. Evaluating why a tree is dangerous, and how it might influence your safety should cost money, if you decide to pick up the job.
You’re an honest guy Reg I charge more for hazard trees mostly when they pose more of a danger for a structure because it requires more time and man power perhaps. However I also do transmission line clearance and I volunteer for every single hazard tree we come across because I prefer to put myself in those positions. For the knowledge and because as you so elegantly said you can either do it or you can’t. I trust my opinion on if it can be done or not more than anyone else’s. I really enjoy listening to you tell stories man I bet you’d be a real cool guy to work around. I still climb everyday thinking about the worst possible scenarios of what could happen based on my decisions in a tree and I spend the whole time trying to ensure I do everything I can to avoid those scenarios. I respect the hell out of you man stay safe up there.
Great discussion! Here's my 2 cents: Things to consider when pricing hazard trees: 1. Value of the service 2. Use of specialty equipment 3. Time spent in the clients interests (prep work for that particular job) I mainly do contract climbing (charging per hour) so I find that if we are doing a hazard tree the extra setup time more than compensates for what some may consider "danger pay". Experience gives us a good gauge of what is acceptable risk, like how driving a car is risky but generally viewed as an acceptable risk. So when Reg for example skillfully climbs a totally dead maple but ties into a nearby d-fir as a safety it is generally viewed as mitigating risk to an acceptable level. And the main factor here is TIME. Dismantling a hazard tree usually requires more time (prep work to plan the job, inspect the conditions before and during the climb) Someone on the outside (like the lady lawyer, even another climber) may see a job as dangerous but if we take the TIME to consider all factors the risk may in the end be acceptable! Therefore I think it's fair to compensate to a reasonable degree for that extra time spend. While of course not exploiting the client! Thanks Reg for opening up the discussion! Reuben Vancouver BC
The more complex a removal is tends to lead one to believe more rigging and thought will be necessary. Therefore more work than say an average tree. Next thought after that tends to be more risk involved so more money is needed. However, I fully understand what you were trying to get across to us. If while doing a 200ft hazardous tree one suffers the unthinkable, they would have a long time on the way down to finally conclude that charging more was a pretty insignificant issue. There will be no opportunity to spend or use the extra money that was charged. My overall thought of what you have transferred in knowledge with this video is that you charge a daily fee for solving tree puzzles as related to the removal or mitigation of them. So now bring the next puzzle and lets get on with it.😁 I know not whether you're a Euc man or an Oak man. What I can say with great certainty is that you're a living legend. We look forward to the next successful solving of a hazardous tree puzzle that many others choose to walk away from. My best to you and the family Reg.
Calculated courage…….professional pride…….the reasoned eye of experience…….sometimes, the daring of youth. You take on jobs to make a living, but you take on this career for many more reasons. Your service should be priced competitively, yet the risk-based quote is entirely reasonable. Not just the risk to you, but the client’s vision of the risk. It’s a problematic situation, so what would be the client’s cost be if that problem progresses to its conclusion? Price your service accordingly…..it’s fair to all involved. Thanks for your videos Reg, and for initiating this conversation.
Apparently you're a man of conscience...judging as to how and why you charge isnt based on anything but your capabilities...its a honesty and consciousness thing for you and ya know what...god bless you for it. Your not ruled by money...you ruled by you....keep your heart and your money pure and good things await....
Reg, I've only recently (6 months or so) been following your site. You seem to be a man of consideration skill. I used to get "hazard" pay to drive a truck into New York City. I think you also get hazard pay to use your experience and skill. How much is the real question. The client wants to pay as little as possible, just like the forestry guy. He didn't want his crew to risk anything, so he hired you. My final thought is, make as much as you can based on your skill. They can pay for safe past experience or they can live with the death of a less experienced climber for less money. Take care my friend and take your time editing your videos. We can wait. 🌲
I'm of many minds on this topic. So many factors & circumstances involved. Highest level guys like yourself have the knowledge & experience to solve the tough puzzles, to abate hazard. But if the hazard can't be satisfactorily abated & there's no full proof escape, then you're venturing into the unknown. Despite being fearless, confident or full of knowledge from many past data points there's still those few stories or experiences where the unexpected occurred. So what's it worth to you to venture into the unknown? If you see the job first then price that in (many times you'll be cheaper than most but more than those suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect). If you don't get to see it, charge what you charge with the stipulation that you can stop if it looks like it's going south or maybe it's gonna take an extra day to do safely. As a contractor I've found when the boss is grateful there may be a bonus. You also still get a full days pay for all the short/ easy days so it all kind of evens out.
@@Recoates the SF Bay stays very cool during the summer. The outlying areas get quite hot tho. I'm actually contracting in PDX at the moment, where it hit 44-45°C ystrdy, great timing on my part...
@@Recoates I don't wanna bang on about this too much but I've definitely talk to climbers with less experience, in areas with smaller trees, lower costs of living & easier work charging more. It makes me think am I doing something wrong, am I being more fair, am I selling myself short or is the market just different. I don't know. But one thing is for sure, they thought of living where they live, doing what they do doesn't suit me. So maybe things are the way they are for a reason. Maybe I just need challenge and engagement and am content to get a living wage for it cuz anything less sounds like death by monotony...
Your level of experience makes you worth more money. Even if you do the job knowing that you can do it with no more issues than you would get from a healthy tree. Having the know how is worth something… I really appreciate seeing that there are still men like you who put the work in to be independent, never trade the “I” for “we”
I look at it just like you said Reg, it’s just the rate for how long the job is gonna take. Sometimes there’s extra rigging involved and it always takes more time to clean up dead trees but other than that it’s like saying “ I may die doing this so give me extra money and I will disregard that feeling to get it done” No Way!
Great comments Reg. Don’t short yourself! You’re a very experienced and talented arborist and you deserve to be rewarded for solving problems other people have a harder time with. As a contract climber I don’t think many companies would go for higher day rates for more dangerous trees. I’m a rare person that will consider paying a contractor more to help me solve a problem but most larger companies will not. As for quoting jobs, I almost always charge more for more difficult and sketchy trees and I’ve yet to have an unhappy client. I don’t get every single job but I get most because I’m honest, trustworthy and I communicate clearly so that expectations are managed well. There are some jobs I just choose not to quote because of risk and liability. Many of the jobs I quote don’t have anyone else quoting. I’ve found ways to solve big problems for people especially in remote areas by using tools not everyone has and thinking outside the box and working smart. If I can single handedly do the work of an entire tree crew with trucks, winches, etc then I deserve to be paid accordingly. I keep getting the work over quite a few years now and have nothing but very satisfied clients that are more than happy to pay for a job well done. I run my own business and some days just depending on the problems I can cleverly solve I can earn up to 5 or 6 times what I would get paid as a contract climber. I’ve really gotten away from quoting hourly whenever I can help it as I always end up leaving too much money on the table. I’ve never had a single client give me crap for how much I made per hour if they work it back. They’re all just happy the job was done right. Don’t be afraid to charge for great work. If you’re not getting the jobs you might be quoting too high, if you’re getting the work then you’re not too high!
KNOW YOUR WORTH!! Other companies don't want to "expose" their employees to a dangerous/difficult job. YOU are worth MORE!! More danger/difficulty equals more value.
you are a straight shooter, whom says it the way it is, you apparently have a reputation that you earned through many years and situations, no money can buy your experience, it must be earned. it's never too late to change your game, if your not starving, and need the jobs to survive, then next time, think about what you talked about during this video, and quote accordingly, you can always donate the money to someone or something that will make you feel good, because that's what life is all about, feeling good, not being rich with money. AWESOME video.
Rico here Reg. Fantastic video compilation at the beginning, and I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on dealing with truly dangerous trees. Keep doing what your doing and stay safe...
@Reg Coates A interesting and enjoyable conversation, my take is it's not about if you should be charging a higher price for the more dangerous trees or not. The reason or question should be are you entitled to be changing higher prices to clients for taking on the more dangerous jobs. The answer is a resounding, yes; because, Reg, it's not about you asking the client to pay you extra for a job that's more dangerous, the client is paying you a higher price for your years of experience, expertise, knowledge, and abilities to be able to take on and professionally bring down those tricky and more dangerous trees and jobs safely and efficiently. Cheers for the reel, Reg, subscribed.
Risk should always be considered & factored into the cost. As part of my past we did land clearing, landslide repair, & erosion control & re-vegetation. Absolute Safety was always a motto & a factor in pricing & completing a job. Brutal Honesty as well. Being absolutely honest in the assessment & pricing. The last thing a client wants is a disaster, serious injury, or death to occur. Safety must always be considered & a priority when developing a price.
Reading your first comment, i realized that there are two separate perspectives in play in this general topic. There is the perspective of the business owner, and the perspective of the contractor. The business owner has to account for the extra time required to work meticulously when things are tricky. If a contractor charges a day rate, or by the hour, then they may charge based on the skill they bring to the table, regardless of whether that skill is required by the job.
Great courage. Obviously you do but still stay safe. Yes a lot of us have only watched you for years on TH-cam and not met you but we are all in your corner to stay safe and happy. All the best. Thank you for the positive reinforcement of key skills in our work.
Personally I find myself taking on dangerous trees for less money when work is slow. Like winter months, or fringes of the busier part of the season. When lots of requests for work are coming in, I charge more for dangerous trees. Simply because there is easier money to be made.
This industry has inspired me to do more with my life in more ways than one. Your videos over the years have helped me keep my calm in unfamiliar situations and with that be far more efficient with my energy. I feel calmer subcontracting with familiar clients because I can solely concentrate on climbing , I keep the price the same so I don't bare more responsibility (in my mind) I'm happy with my level of ability and use subcontractors on my jobs maybe once a year , I'm based on the fens UK and rarely go above 80ft , cheers reg
Here's a simple formula for pricing hazard work: Height of tree (in feet) ÷ diameter (in cm) x percentage of decay + square root of the number of roots sticking out of the ground ÷ the lean (in degrees) + wind speed (mm per second) x the number of the type of saw you're using (201, 572, etc). This will give you the perfect number every time and the client will always say yes.
Hey Reg, Great videos and thoughtful perspectives…I’d enjoy having a beer and chewing the fat with someone like you… Being the owner of a small contractor business myself (10 people), one method of reviewing a ‘hazardous’ job cost might be to assume that you must utilize an employee to perform the work. In that case, it would reasonable to expect that an employee would be paid more to, for example, top a super tall tree, than to prune a semi-dwarf plum tree. The price differential would be variable and subject market conditions…ie- how many people are looking for work, etc. Only you, being the biz owner can properly balance the market variables; and your conclusive price will be evaluated within the overall market. Sounds like you have a rational outlook on life and humanity- if I were a potential employee, you would be considered a valuable employer. Keep up the good work! Best regards, Dan PS: I’m an jazz guitarist in my off-time, happy to send you some hip chord changes to ‘Misty’!
I understand where you're coming from Reg and in a different way I spent 47 yrs as an over the road trucker who ran the far north and some tough terrain off hyway ect. In no way was I paid more in the winter during a raging snow storm or freezing rain. There was always the option to park it but with experience and my own confidence that never occurred and at no time did I feel pressured to complete the job. Having said that after all those years with no accidents...lost time or insurance claims I'm now comfortable retired and very much at peace with my past career...cheers Reg and stay safe.
Not many can, could, or would do the tree work you do. You are one of the best in the industry. Literally. Your knowledge, skill, ability, composure and nerves are extraordinary. Skilled labor. If anyone could or would do it we would not be having this conversation. Skilled indeed is Reg.
This is one of my favorite videos you’ve put out. Talking about the complexity of a job to someone who doesn’t understand and tries to fathom why we do what we do; impossible. Honest days work equals a honest days pay. Keep on doing what you’re do
This channel is a winner..you have a great camera presence also alot off skill,good safe practices and safety awareness and a massive set of balls..from nz chur
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts in this issue. I think similarly with you can or you can’t! Most of the guys charging more don’t wish to do the job or only if they make really good money on it. Personally I enjoy the challenge and trusting your experience and knowledge to do the jobs safely and efficiently and go home. Thanks David
Great video Reg ! I think that you’re a very calculated, experienced climber but your life is not replaceable to your family. If you’re going to do the hazardous jobs you should get hazard pay ! The other tree companies only call you when they don’t want their men hurt or killed. Be careful out there , you’re worth it !
As a climber that solely climbs to manage my own woodlands I can't share my thoughts on this aspect of tree care, what I can say is that your integrity & reasoning is of the most respectable I've had the privilege to observe. It is amazing how nearly 40 minutes of you sharing your thoughts seemed to fly by in mere moments. A sincerely engaging discussion, and I thank you for each video you put out.
I started as a climber back in the early 70's at the age of 22 retired now at 72 yrs old .I worked in the north east .We climbed big trees but nothing as massive as on the west coast.But as far as pricing the job we never charged more for a dead or live or dangerous tree if it could be done safely we did it.so to charge more makes no sense to me .good work Reg.
Hey Reg, I'm coming over from Buckin'Billy Ray's channel, just watched the video you guys shot when visiting CARMANAH VALLEY , what a magnificent place! I liked and subscribed. Regards from Sweden 🇸🇪
Here's my 2c (please follow through to the end - the main point is there) as an ex-climber (15 years climbing) who retired due to recurring injuries and returned to college to become a safety professional (I have a fair idea what you think of those.. lol). For reference, when I was climbing, I would have been very much one of those employees who would have had a crack at any of those trees if asked. I was on occasion asked to do things that were pushing the envelope of my abilities (not all of which went perfectly smoothly, but all of which I learned from and became better because of). I am of the same mindset - the size doesn't matter, the principles are the same; the only difference is the consequences. Ultimately though, it comes down to - either you can or you can't. Danger shouldn't be a factor. As I said, the only difference is the consequences, which won't matter if it goes how you expect. If it's that dangerous that you feel you have to charge more because of the risk, you probably shouldn't be doing it. That being said, your knowledge and experience is a commodity. If you're on price work, doing "normal" tree work, the value of the commodity increases organically, because you will simply be more productive and therefore earn more. If however you're doing work that an employer doesn't feel confident in assigning to their own employees, your value (knowledge and experience) equates to the ability to safely complete the work. The operative word is "safely". In other words, the employer puts more trust in your judgement - the product of your knowledge and experience, than in the judgement of their own employees. He trusts that you will know if it can be climbed safely or not and that if you say it can't be climbed safely, then it probably can't be climbed safely. You should absolutely charge more for dangerous for this reason alone. This industry is competitive in terms of pricing. The employer may find other climbers and may factor in the costs in deciding to go with someone else and I'm sure there are several climbers who would be willing to undercut each other, in a manner that serves nobody and in the end undervalues the industry. However, I feel that you specifically have a reputation as one of the top climbers in the industry and it's people like you who should be leading the charge. I think you should be thinking about how much you can charge, while still providing value, rather than the black and white of either you can or you can't. You still need to be competitive to get work, no doubt, and I'm not suggesting that you try to rinse your clients, but I do think you should consider the value that your knowledge and experience brings to the customer depending on the situation. (That's my point above - The next bit is meandering thoughts as a safety manager). Safety in general is about a number of really in-depth aspects, insulating employers against claims being right up there. I find that a common sense approach is lacking widely in the profession. In this instance, the obligation is to reduce the risk to as low as reasonably practicable. The reasonably practicable part is a minefield and is often why the profession lacks common sense. You usually only find out what was "reasonable" when the judge decides during the hearing. These companies in hiring you, are using your expertise and knowledge to deflect some of that fall-out - there are precedents in law which provide for deferring risk based on the reasonable expectations of the client in the expert's ability. This also adds value to what you are doing. In a perfect world, all climbers/employers/clients would realise this and pay accordingly. Undercutting and the competitive nature of the business paints over this though. Have you any thoughts on technical advancements that could be made to further the business? If money was no object for example, would there be a safer way to get these trees down? 300ft MEWP maybe? Lol.
Reg, I hope you see this comment.. I'll save you the long winded comment I just erased, and simply tell you that your videos are so greatly appreciated, and the value you have given me is immeasurable. Thank you. As a new tree company and climber, I know that I have found a great store of knowledge in your videos.
Dangerous and hazardous tree in most cases present challenges that not everyone can safely take on. Your level of knowledge and skill get put into work and you should be compensated accordingly. Stay safe Reg much love!!!!!
Reg sometimes I've had to bid jobs where I had to remove dead branches above a slate roof home. I charged more for that than I would if the tree wasn't near any targets. Even with careful planning, rigging, and patience you may have a small stick totally shatter one of those slate shingles, and that can get pricey quick. Thanks for all the excellent content Reg. I've been watching your videos for a long time.
Reg, good video. I own a tree service and I’m the climber. I charge extra for dangerous trees or situations. You have many years of experience and if it’s a dangerous tree or situation you should be paid more. I don’t charge daily rates. I quote every job and I never quote a tree without looking at the tree and soundings.
What I meant by the tone of your voice is that it feels to me like YOU think its worth more. Any-hoo, I'm glad to see and hear the dialog; it seems like a privelidge to be included. The amount of effort and risk in a relatively simple job seems massive to someone like me that has done mostly easy firewood jobs. Some are a little sketchy, but unless they pose a hazard to a building or somebody's safety, you let the next windstorm get them down.
Reg, thanks for sharing your perspective on this. When I look at any job my first decision is "can I do it"??? If the answer is "no" then it's no. If the answer is "yes", then I price it according to the amount of time/work/effort I will need to actually get the job done. I assess and evaluate on what you were saying, either I can do the job or I can't. I have heard/read many climbers talk about "risk based" pricing and I do understand what they are saying. For me personally, I'm not comfortable charging customers for my "anxiety". I very much appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experience through video and conversation. I don't have the opportunity to work directly with experienced climbers and getting an honest and straightforward point of view on subjects like this is a big help. Cheers Reg, and keep yourself safe. 😃👍❤️🌲 Randy
Hi Reg ! Thanks for the vid. Always on top buddy! English is not my first language but I’ll do my best ;-) I agree, you can or you cant. But dont forget, maybe its the experience and self confidence in your self that tells you if you can or if you cant do the job or not. Before I became an Arborist I was an underwriter and basically, what you make sure of charging for is risk. Not trying to establish credability or anything but I did that for a long time. If there is one thing private customers or companys understand it is this because they can relate to it if the job and the method are explained well to the customer. As an Arborist I often talk to customers about this and I my experience is that higher risk is easier to have a two way conversation about than lets say whay you should prune a scertain tree a scertain way. So, I think it is not only resonable to charge for higher risk. It is also a reflection of you and what you can do and as we all know, you are King Louie personified and you can do it! Stay safe and please keep the vids coming. Love it !
Absolutely justified that any dangerous work which requires specialized knowledge and higher skills will command higher reward. It shouldn't even be a point of contention.
Great discussion Reg. Time is time. I feel with higher risk I may need to be more cautious (slower), extra set up, more inspection as I get higher up. I don't have many scenarios where pieces can just be dropped, so extra time to develop rigging plans for a dead tree, etc. Often, that takes extra time which increases cost. In the cases where I could do it at the same pace as a comparable healthy tree, then I can agree not increasing the cost.
I believe I understand what you are saying you can either do the job or not,if you charge more for something being hazardous why would you risk your life over a little more money! A very honest and interesting piece of information.👍👍
I don't have the opportunity or need to climb as much as you do, but I do hazardous work and most all involve hazards to property etc., I quote these jobs completely on the difficulty and hazard, and even the experience that I may have that others may not with the knowledge that they may not be able to even get someone else, that said, I do work way to cheap sometimes just because I know the people can not afford any work to be done, but because their home is in danger they have no choice. And then sometimes I give what I feel is a fair quote and I just plain underbid it for the work that took place. Let your conscience be your guide, but be as fair to your family as you are to anyone else. I really hope to get to work a few days with you someday, take care Reg and be well.
If your anxiety is up, your price should be as well, commensurate to the comfort level of risk you have to "take" by planning a safe job to go home at the end of the day. I'd say in most cases where people are asking you to bid or do the work, you can bid a fair price by risk level and they would be happy to pay you. Never apologize for your high skill level bringing you a better than fair price, you pay for expertise (ya get what ya pay for) in your case, that would be excellence in your care while you do the job, safely. Have a good one Reg and keep up the great work and your vids, they are so calming on this end! 🐶
With the hazard trees, you should be payed for your experience! Getting the job done safely is well worth it. So yes definitely charge more money ! Another great video and a discussion that should be talked about! Take care reg from 🏴
Firstly I watched the whole video before commenting ! Secondly I feel you answered your question near 38 minutes and 41 . Third , I'm new to climbing inspired by you and others and can't wait to climb a dead red oak in my backyard that I know is still strong enough ( because of other dead ones I've fallen ) ! I just have to get out there and get in the tree and do it , I will know or make the decision while I'm climbing it to stop ! Reg I believe at this point you can charge more for hazard trees , just depends on how hungry a guy is !
Aye Reg, your spot on I've never been paid better for dangerous trees either but I think sometimes we should. On the other hand some people pay for that type of adrenaline 🙂
Thanks for the vids, love 'em. The only thing you need to consider is what you reckon your competitors would change. From what you've said sounds like you have plenty of scope to charge more for more difficult/dangerous jobs.
Yes it is! It's worth more money,especially the heights you climb to do your job. I would be constantly wondering more than i should be about a failure in a hazard tree while changing stress loads and roping. Alot of what ifs involved. Some potential customers wonder about your experience when price Isn't high enough sometimes,more so when they've possible received estimates from other companies.
Definitely they are worth more! I wouldn’t under bid a big or dangerous job ever again and I’ve done my share in the past, I now will over bid big/dangerous jobs so high if I get it great at least I’m making good money and if not all well. In my area of the Oregon coast we all as tree service companies try and stay within a similar day rate with each other and I can often tell if a customer had multiple bids on a big nasty job right off the bat I know not to under bid myself.. keep up the good work RC thx for putting out real life tree work 🤙
You did that last tree for 800.00, that was gravy, dead but done well, your charge was what you were comfortable with. Charge at your normal criteria with the Risk factors that you know will get done safely you do the work you ask for what you want, knowing who hired you has no clue what you are faced with..there should be that medium you should be over and not under, from your contractor's offer..Like to have seen the Job Done, ...Keep up the Good Work.
Great video for thoes who wonder if they could do a job that is so dangerous, sometimes is best to think about your self and not the money, there will be more work ahead. Saying no is okay
You know how it is, Reg.. Two men can be doing exactly the same special work, but the reason for their job can be totally different.. One is maybe in this to teach the public about the right technique for staying safe at this kind of work. The other is a good example of empathy and admiration towards all the beings of the creation and this work he does is just a tool to fullfil his real calling..To wake up some people to see what he sees.. I know you know exactly. We are here not for the money. Just go onward listening to your heart. And deep thanks🙏
Great video mate! I did a gumtree a few weeks ago now I called it pizza with the lot. Pretty ugly tree snap outs defects and mushrooms. and yes hazardous it was. I was honest and said this will cost slightly more due to the extra care I would need to take in bringing it down with out properly damage or to myself. And they were fine with it as I also put there job Infront of other jobs to give them peace of mind from it doing damage to there house and shed. Keep up the great work mate and just do what works and feels right for you. I don't always charge more just because it's tricky but sometimes you have to
I watched this video late last night and I am still mulling it over. Definitely food for thought. Will continue to "mull" and hope to get back to you with some sort of completed thought.
I have worked as a certified I.F.M.G.A. {International Federation of Mountain Guide Associations}, A.C.M.G. {Association of Canadian Mountain Guides} "mountain guide" so I have seen and experienced some dangerous situations. In my early 60's started messing around with this tree work here in Japan (central Nagano Prefecture). Now at 72 years of age I have basically retired from mountain guiding but I am still doing the tree work and enjoying it. Anyway, I have to agree with you Reg Coates that you either know what you are doing or you don't, and if you do well then, unless there is something else going on, the "danger tree" probably doesn't justify a premium price.
Reg, I watch your video's because I am entertained by your skill and knowledge about saws, ropes, climbing, gear required, tree types etc etc. As a tradesman myself, I recognise that the knowledge you have is worth a great deal. The island job you did was because nobody else would do it... they didn't know how to minimise the risk or weren't willing to take that risk. The Manager Matt might be a nice guy, but my guess is he gets you in either because none of his staff will do it or it is less paperwork if a subbie hits the ground (health and safety is wonderful). My advice is for those types of jobs charge more. How you do that... maybe a danger fee on top of your daily rate? Start low and work your way up until you stop getting work and then you know the market rate?
Reg, in my opinion the answer is yes! Yes, you need to charge more for dangerous trees. They are not paying for you to take thaf tree down in an hour. They are paying for your experience and judgment which allowed you to take that tree down in an hour. When I present a high bid to a client I discuss 4 topics with them. 1st is Risk - this includes but not limited to risk to the climber (includes tree health, weather, power lines), risk to nearby structures/property/other workers etc. 2nd is risk mitigation - what things do I need to do to mitigate the risks discussed above (this is where experience and good judgement is valued). 3rd is size of the tree ans 4th is scope (cleanup vs no cleanup) etc.
Dangerous work is always worth an up charge. Even in my business (oilfield construction) hazardous work beyond the routine, is going to be paid a premium accordingly. There should be no guilt or hesitation on the part of the customer or service provider to adequately compensate or expect to be compensated for high risk work AND YOUR ADVANCED EXPERIENCE. Love your videos, stay safe.
You sound exactly like my father, he has been exploited his whole working life, there is no talking to him, he is self employed, in his 80's and still going strong. Know your worth. A job is priced by what it is worth to the customer, not what it is worth to you. Your knowledge and experience are worth money. If it takes you less time than the next man, that is where you make more money. If someone else can't, or can't be trusted, that is where you make more money. If everyone can do it, its worth little. If only you can do it, it's worth however much you want, or else it doesn't get done. Routine to you does not make it routine. An apprentice does not get paid what a craftsman get paid. I'm not saying it is right to do this, I'm not saying it is wrong either, but I am saying this is what the rest of the world does, so if you don't then you are loosing out. You could either work less hard, work less time, or make more money, but one thing is for sure, people love to take advantage of other people, if you are not gaining an advantage then the other person is, usually. That is cynical I'm afraid, but its also true. If I can do a job myself, I do it myself, 1) if I enjoy it or want to do it, 2) If it costs me less to do it myself. I hate paying someone to do something I can do, I can do a lot, but that is WRONG, you are devaluing yourself by doing this, spend your time doing things ONLY you can do, that is where your value is. I pay someone 1) If I can't do it or can't be bothered, 2) my time and earnings in my job are worth more than the time it would take me or the cost of paying someone to do the job for me. Every CEO can answer a phone, can every call handler make a deal and build a company? What does the CEO spend his time doing, and how much is that worth? Including to all the call handlers employed by the company? Does he make more than the call handlers, damn right he does. Does a good CEO make more than an average CEO? People tend to undervalue themselves. No one likes rejection or not winning a job, it makes you a loser doesn't it? Only assholes are full of their own self importance, right? Then there is the other angle, Its not worth anything extra, because I'm soooo good everything is simple to me, and if that floats your boat then enjoy the ride just like my father does. Love your approach, care and attention, the video's and channel, and BC, it all just oozes class. I'm like a leech for it all, this is my attempt to give back as you asked for opinion.
@Granville W "A job is priced by what it is worth to the customer, not what it is worth to you." This is an excellent way to describe pricing in any business.
I feel similar to what you are saying because as a tree climber Ive noticed that some mediocre arborists charge a ton of money for what to a tree climber seems like easy work, whereas really skilled people like Reg sometimes charge less for much more difficult work. A good example is how often hedgeing is priced at the same rate as hazard tree removal, which blows my mind. It seems really wrong, but its hard to get away from either undercharging or overcharging. I do think we need to be honest and fair but also like you said, know what our work is worth
Great conversation piece. I think this needs to be talked about and taken into consideration more in our industry. I own a tree service and I've found that usually big fat spready oaks here in Maryland are not very profitable. I do best as a business owner and business manager (owner operator), doing smaller, average, easy trees. Not very often do I make much profit from big, fat, stupid trees. I think some guys get more wrapped up in the look what I can do mentality then actually charging appropriately. I honestly think if your doing a super risky tree that you should charge more. I know you feel like you have it under control but your definitely taking an extra risk. Most climbers probably wouldn't do the trees that you showed in the beginning. I've seen many climbers get out of trees for many reasons. Your experience and skill set is what they are inevitably paying you for. When your pushing you life to the limits at your job you should be compensated for that.
My father always said, “If you want to make a lot of money, you have to be able to do what no one else can.” When no one wants the job, your experience and expertise should be compensated if you take it on.
Hi Reg, I have been running my Own treeservice for about 5 to 6 years now. Trees overhere (the netherlands) generally are alot smaller Then where you are, then again we are Dealing in tiny garden workareas. To awnser your question: I take the same aproach you do. My hourly rate is what it is. Its based on my experience. I make a plan, an estimate. And start solving the puzzle. Best i can. To me it d be odd charging a different rate. mayby it is oldfashioned. Maybe even naive to Some. To me it feels right. Thanx for all the vids. Much appreciated!!!
reg, first I'd like to say I really enjoy your videos because along with technical insight, you give your personal perspective.to your question about charging more for danger trees, in every profession there are levels of expertise. I'm an auto tech. I'm an ase master and subaru senior master in my field.i couldn't command a premium for doing oil changes because a lower level tech can do the same job with the same outcome.however if there is a job no one else can do, my expertise comes into account and I can command a premium for it (as well I should) because I've spent thousands of hours honing my skill set to accommodate the job.in this instance the customer is paying for the experience I've already paid for.i get your point that you can do it or you cant.thats not in question. the questions (x2) are how long did it take me to gain this experience so I can do it, and can anyone else safely do it? you should also consider futures.like if I get hurt,what happens to my family and employees etc.being honest and fair to the customer is admirable.but there's something to be said for being fair to yourself as well.
I'd say it's a personal choice Reg, some people do charge more whether it's dangerous, a short window like some TPO loopholes or even if the customer looks worried because of size, even though to us it's easier than a smaller tree that happens to be a more technical job. I know with me being a subbie it's a sort of "why should I be a shark for a few extra quid" putting more stress on the business owner/private customer, as there's usually a tip at the end of the job anyway when everyone's a lot calmer and happy, and the business owners are usually good friends aswell. Apart from extra equipment like a crane I reckon you could charge more but its definitely a "what does your conscience tell you" kinda thing. Thanks for the videos Reg, they're really good mate 👌 👍
I feel like this is a no brainer. Especially out where I am with tree work, 60% of the time people have no clue what they’re asking for...trees will be touching wires and over hanging house and they think all you do is just cut it down. I seriously have encountered people look at 85 foot oak trees that were inbetween 3 houses and wonder why it’s 5500 dollar removal
I would probably pass on most of those trees you showed at the start. Well done getting them all down safely. My biggest issue with wind is is I get seasick by looking around at all the movement. This feeling makes me weaker and more likely to make poor choices.
I hear ya Reg, pretty clearly as well. We don’t have such tall and big trees here as overthere, but they can be pretty sketchy sometimes. But in the end, for us it’s just ’another day, another dollar’ and doing what you do almost every day. Like a guy at some bank counting money and depositing it, every day all day. I don’t think he charges more, if it is a different sort of money or a heavier bag? Sometimes people here also say that one can charge more for stormdamaged trees, because ’the insurance pays anyways’. 🤔. Well, not with us, because of the same fact I mentioned. It took me 3 days to find the time the time to watch this video 😋. But now it’s midsummer break and we got 3 days of relaxin’ overhere in Finland 😎. Take care and be carefull 👊
@@markchisholm1181 glad you managed to sit through it. I start talking, and then 30 minutes later Im still talking. We never did get that pint....you dodged the bullet there
Reg I'm Surprised at this Question ! But I sort of understand the problem . Often firms quote on Need based on overheads Business Running costs . RISK is often under valued Experience is Also under valued But as you ended the Video You know Most People get a Number of Quotes And choose the cheapest - Then down the line call the better Company in to clean up the mess of an inexperienced Crew . I think with the upmost Respect You are you're own Problem as your skill level fears less than many other firms so equaling Lower Quotes on Risk Jobs . underbidding One Conversation to be Had is with Matt you say he's a nice Guy So Ask him out right at what level of charge do you stop using Us and Risk your own Men If I ask you more for Risk will you pay it as he understands the risk a householder does not care or needs it explaining as how would they know other than falling branches from time to time etc . you may be asking this question late in the game But above all you've done it your Way . Lots of House holders Consider themselves clever to out smart people on quotes you know that better than Me Sir YES is the Answer Risk is Worth More .
I have always charged more for dangerous trees always even if a tree has a shitload of vines all over it I charge more just because it's 10 times more work a dangerous tree your life is at risk way more so it's definitely worth the money. Reg you are the man you are very inspiring
I've seen most of the vids and live them all. What was the electricity one? That was terrifying. A good man is worthy of his hire. Charge em good. They all love u like we do!!
there is a story / joke about a company that had a machine that they couldn't get it to run right. all their mechanics and electricians couldn't figure what was wrong so they called and old retired guy in to help them out. the guy came in and looked at the machine for about 15 minutes. then he got his tools out and took a couple measurements and took his hammer and hit one of the cross members on the machine. he said, "alright, start it up". the machine started running perfect. the old guy wrote out a bill for $1000.00. the company man said, "all you did was take a couple measurements and hit the cross member on the machine, we could have done that, why are you charging so much". the old guy says, "it's all about where to hit it and how hard to hit it". So for you Reg, it's about how to rig and how to cut it safely that counts.
If the risk is high one must have more safety margin. Money is part of that. If lets say 1 in 10 of these trees I have to rent a lift, call a crane guy or go home and come back an other day because of weather conditions after giving a price that must be baked in. More anxiety and strain on the body might take more rest to recover from. So also that should be baked in. And the fact that fewer people can do it. It's worth more and they pay for years of experience and hard work. We all have done jobs that ended up with a horrible low hourly pay due to it taking longer time. Some times YOU got to the one that get the better deal.🙂 Thank you for sharing.😁👍❤
You make solid points throughout the video, all valid. But I would also say that throughout my life in the trades, the higher the risk, often the higher the operating cost and also the higher the bill for more dangerous services. That is how it goes. More danger=more technical approach=more $$. All this is easily quantified by relevant experience required to tackle such a job. A person who does not or has not encountered certain circumstances would not be tooled to undertake such a job. Look at it another way. Say one company quoted that they could remove a tree but they would need to use their crane to do it safely. You also quote the same tree removal but you have no crane, and yet you can still get it done. Are you not worth more $$? Are you not eligible to charge more for that job? If your skill can replace a crane, I think that justifies it.
I started typing this out about 6 minutes in; for me what I get uncertain about as a new tree cutter, is what constitutes as dangerous due to my own unique circumstances. I'm 6'5" and 245lbs, I'm strong and athletic but not a natural climber, and I don't see many folks my size going up trees. There's a tree I'm going to put a bid on next week and I am turning my mind upside just trying to figure out if it's crazy for me to try to climb. Super crispy dead and bark is falling off. So that's where I'm at in this journey. Thank you for the video and discussion.
I think the reality is Reg, you're honest and trustworthy .Rather than charging more because you can ,your integrity and experience almost outweighs that thought ?But I don't think it should. Personally if I had your level of knowledge (and balls ) I would charge a lot more - risk based as you've been saying. I have worked with people that charge what on earth they like for some jobs if they " need " doing in a certain time frame.( dangerous or project related) I had seem someone else said on this thread say that hedging is also expense and often priced at the same . In the Uk this can also be true . As a business we are incurring similar costs to do both the tree and large hedge work , plus there can be lots of chipping if it's being reduced. So the price seems to be often very similar. To me you're a very skilled arborist and id be expecting to pay top money to get your services in, if a client cant see your value you might want to send them to your TH-cam Chanel to broaden their horizons and give them a little more perspective. Top videos Reg, very engaging
Thanks for posting videos. My work is all forest related, no houses etc. That said, if folks have the money charge more for rotten tree work. Crown and Provincial entities have the resources to pay. "Site Specific" is good term. Long dry Summers equal snags and compromised big wood drying out. When the first Fall/Winter storms come in and load compromised trees with rainwater, the wind does the rest. We all know which direction the storm winds come from depending on where we live. If someone wants a compromised tree removed in late Fall and the strong winds are blowing in advantageous direction why not let mother nature do the removal. If tree is standing after storm it is good enough to climb. Nice to see a blaster on your video collection, reminds me of my dog who was a tree blaster specialist. I could literally tell someone new that was grounding to be where the dog was when I came out of tree. Instead of barking yell fire in the hole.
Great Video Reg, this video reminded me of this...
A giant ship engine failed. The ship’s owners tried one expert after another, but none of them could figure but how to fix the engine.
Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing ships since he was young. He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he immediately went to work. He inspected the engine very carefully, top to bottom.
Two of the ship’s owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would know what to do. After looking things over, the old man reached into his bag and pulled out a small hammer. He gently tapped something. Instantly, the engine lurched into life. He carefully put his hammer away. The engine was fixed!
A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for ten thousand dollars.
“What?!” the owners exclaimed. “He hardly did anything!”
So they wrote the old man a note saying, “Please send us an itemized bill.
The man sent a bill that read:
Tapping with a hammer………………….. $ 2.00
Knowing where to tap…………………….. $ 9,998.00
Effort is important, but knowing where to make an effort makes all the difference!
A classic! Perhaps never more suitably used either.
This is a great story and lesson.
That's the absolute best parable I've heard for experience-rates (though usually such fees are almost implicit, cannot fathom anyone ever brought in Reg and then tried to pay him what they pay their own guy for a regular job!)
"Hazardous" situations aren't always purely an experience thing but then again tree work is quite a different animal than most other trades!
That's awesome
For the new subscribers . The archives are worth every moment watched . Every video this guy makes is gold . A welth of knowledge . Thanks for the videos Reg
How do I access the archives?
@@phillipvaughn5719 when your watching a video click on the channel name . Reg Coates . At the top of the screen there will be a part that says videos . Click on that and thenThey all come up .
Archives are the same as previous videos I think . Hope you find the things your looking for .
I have watched almost all of Reg`s videos, and was familiar with all of the clips he showed in this video. The vast amount of knowledge, and experience he brings to a job MUST come with a price especially when doing jobs with heightened personal risk, and material risk. If not, then you are saying you are no better than a green horn, and what you bring to the table does not count, or matter.
@@phillipvaughn5719 Just hit the video button in reg's channel then they should be there, reg once said if you do it on a computer there are more shown than on a iPad or other hand held things 😉👍
I agree either “You can” or “You can’t”, and a lot of that comes down to experience, you’re obviously a very wise and experienced person and your knowledge is worth a lot, and quite honestly worth more money based on that. I own a tree business and if I was to have you contract climb for me I’d gladly pay you more for your tools and experience and knowledge. All that being said I feel the same way you do. I’m not money driven as I try to do people right wheather they know better or no, I don’t just charge more just because they don’t know what they are looking at or talking about. I try to do people right no matter what. That’s what I appreciate about you, you’re honest, knowledgeable and humble. I do think there’s alot more risk involved in hazardous trees, me personally there’s a point you cross to where the tree has to come down because it’s too great a risk to leave as is, in that case I go with my gut and charge more according to the level of risk damaging objects, gear or personnel. If the tree is that hazardous even doing everything right pieces of the tree can break off and damage nearby objects that a healthy tree wouldn’t have done and at the end of the day that damaged item falls back on the tree guy. So I may or may not charge more money. But I definitely consider it.
Hopefully that explains my thoughts. I really appreciate all your videos, you’re a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate your honesty.
I almost never comment…
Reg, I’m sure there are a few better climbers in the world who are probably better than you, but you confidently and expertly deal with tree scenarios that are beyond many other arborist’s capabilities and/or comforts.
If you were playing baseball or basketball etc, you would make 10’s of millions a year
You’re a legit internationally famous shoot’em between the eyes gunslinger of the tree world, literally respected around the world by everyone who knows who you are.
I think if you wanted you could charge more than any other service around and still stay as busy as you please…. more $$ , less time on the job, more time for what you love
On that note though, you do what brings you happiness in your life.
With respect 🖖
Brilliantly put 👍
I would double like this comment if I could.
I follow your reasoning of you can or you can’t yet I also feel that it would make sense to charge more for a Hazardous Tree because your level of Experience is why you can. Thanx for sharing!
When it's your own business, there are so many factors at work - not just the job but the wider business picture - overheads, cash flow and such. Also there is the relationship with the customer and how, on a personal level, you feel to charge that customer. And there is the competitive aspect to pricing - giving the customer the right price so they can use you (who will do a good job) rather than someone else (who might not. If your business is working well, it's not always about securing the work because you need it, but because you want to do the work for that customer. I don't think it's as simple as 'it's more dangerous therefore automatically charge more.'
When working for someone else, and they specifically get you in because you have a particular specialism, i think it is worth considering pricing your work with that as a consideration (also because the company to whom you are subcontracting will, most likely, have put the danger/complexity into their price).
Great vid as always. Good discussion.
I appreciate this discussion Reg. Good points and stories.
I personally always charge more with my business when bidding danger/hazard trees. Depending on the trees condition and how that increases potential risks to me and property I might charge 30% more to double what i would charge for the same job if the tree was healthy. A few reasons:
1- My life is valuable. I and my family deserve greater competition if i am going to put myself at a greater risk.
2- I move slower and more calculated to minimize risk. So the job take longer than it would healthy.
3- A brain surgeon makes more in a 4 hr surgery than a family doctor would in the same amount of time. The reason is that fewer are qualified or capable to do the task. If it takes (like in your case) 30 years to gain the needed skill to do a job that 5 other companies refuse.. you have earned greater pay since you are one of the few qualified.
4- To keep pricing competitive. The majority of the other companies biding hazard trees would also raise their prices.
Thats my take. 😊
Bingo!!! Top answer 💪🤟
Well done , nicely laid out response !
Oh and much respect to your profession you guys have to be in crazy condition to do your job , I'm learning first hand my core is in need of training !
Totally agree 👍
Great answer👍🏻
I could listen to Reg talk for days. I've never spent more than 2 minutes watching one of his videos without learning something. Much Respect Reg thank you!
I charged more for the installation of shingles on roofs that had a steep pitch or for 2 story homes because they were more time consuming and dangerous. Why shouldn't you be charging more for dangerous trees ?
Hi Reg, I’m not surprised that this came up after talking with a lawyer. Different hourly rates are often applied when pricing up work of a differing nature. All of the ‘professions’ work on a cost basis built around 2 areas; knowledge and skill based qualifications. The skill is built up through practice and understanding, applying learnt principles repeatedly in different scenarios builds on your ability to read new situations, developing skills to a high level.
This leads to the accumulation of knowledge, which we all have different capacities for. You obviously have an advanced capacity for applying this knowledge, referring to it as intuition. Intuition without knowledge is just guess work. That level of knowledge is considered to be a valuable commodity in every working scenario, as demonstrated by companies consistently requesting your presence, when they do not have the confidence within their own company to send staff to complete a job.
There are a great number of climbers out there, not all have the ability to climb to 200 feet with confidence, fewer still have gained the knowledge to enable them to make critical decisions, relying on observation from the ground. That knowledge is scarce in the climbing community so has a premium attached to it. I don’t think it has anything to do with the tree being dangerous or not. If you have the experience to tackle a job it’s a days work like any other. What is valuable is the ability to make the correct decision repeatedly, with confidence, and being proven right on completing the job.
So yes charge more for that, a fee on top of your normal day rate and you’ll still get the work.
I kinda figure the price of a “hazard” tree sorta works itself out. To Explain, when I price trees I mainly go off the time and resources needed to complete the job in a safe and predictable manner. The more hazardous the tree, the more the technique dictates time and resources. So I don’t personally add a hazard clause to my pricing, it kinda adds up automatically. I figure out a hourly/daily rate for all involved and sometimes I might figure the worst case scenario just to cover my bases in case the plan changes once I’m in the tree…maybe throw in some crane hours 🤷♂️ What do I know though, been figuring it out as I go.
Thanks Reg for inspiring some constructive commentary 👍
Yeah, that's how I roll as well. The more complex a job, the more I allow for potential "what ifs" and "in case of"...
It's about covering all eventualities...
The more you have to use your skill and experience to get the job done without injury, the more you charge. If you charge more to remove a tree leaning over a house because of the danger to property that you essentially promise to avoid, it's the same as when the danger is instead that you be injured or killed and you use skill and experience to avoid that. Evaluating why a tree is dangerous, and how it might influence your safety should cost money, if you decide to pick up the job.
Higher risk potential, to life or property, higher price.
You’re an honest guy Reg I charge more for hazard trees mostly when they pose more of a danger for a structure because it requires more time and man power perhaps. However I also do transmission line clearance and I volunteer for every single hazard tree we come across because I prefer to put myself in those positions. For the knowledge and because as you so elegantly said you can either do it or you can’t. I trust my opinion on if it can be done or not more than anyone else’s. I really enjoy listening to you tell stories man I bet you’d be a real cool guy to work around. I still climb everyday thinking about the worst possible scenarios of what could happen based on my decisions in a tree and I spend the whole time trying to ensure I do everything I can to avoid those scenarios. I respect the hell out of you man stay safe up there.
Great discussion! Here's my 2 cents:
Things to consider when pricing hazard trees:
1. Value of the service
2. Use of specialty equipment
3. Time spent in the clients interests (prep work for that particular job)
I mainly do contract climbing (charging per hour) so I find that if we are doing a hazard tree the extra setup time more than compensates for what some may consider "danger pay".
Experience gives us a good gauge of what is acceptable risk, like how driving a car is risky but generally viewed as an acceptable risk.
So when Reg for example skillfully climbs a totally dead maple but ties into a nearby d-fir as a safety it is generally viewed as mitigating risk to an acceptable level. And the main factor here is TIME.
Dismantling a hazard tree usually requires more time (prep work to plan the job, inspect the conditions before and during the climb)
Someone on the outside (like the lady lawyer, even another climber) may see a job as dangerous but if we take the TIME to consider all factors the risk may in the end be acceptable!
Therefore I think it's fair to compensate to a reasonable degree for that extra time spend. While of course not exploiting the client!
Thanks Reg for opening up the discussion!
Reuben
Vancouver BC
The more complex a removal is tends to lead one to believe more rigging and thought will be necessary. Therefore more work than say an average tree. Next thought after that tends to be more risk involved so more money is needed.
However, I fully understand what you were trying to get across to us. If while doing a 200ft hazardous tree one suffers the unthinkable, they would have a long time on the way down to finally conclude that charging more was a pretty insignificant issue. There will be no opportunity to spend or use the extra money that was charged. My overall thought of what you have transferred in knowledge with this video is that you charge a daily fee for solving tree puzzles as related to the removal or mitigation of them. So now bring the next puzzle and lets get on with it.😁
I know not whether you're a Euc man or an Oak man. What I can say with great certainty is that you're a living legend.
We look forward to the next successful solving of a hazardous tree puzzle that many others choose to walk away from.
My best to you and the family Reg.
Calculated courage…….professional pride…….the reasoned eye of experience…….sometimes, the daring of youth. You take on jobs to make a living, but you take on this career for many more reasons. Your service should be priced competitively, yet the risk-based quote is entirely reasonable. Not just the risk to you, but the client’s vision of the risk. It’s a problematic situation, so what would be the client’s cost be if that problem progresses to its conclusion? Price your service accordingly…..it’s fair to all involved. Thanks for your videos Reg, and for initiating this conversation.
Apparently you're a man of conscience...judging as to how and why you charge isnt based on anything but your capabilities...its a honesty and consciousness thing for you and ya know what...god bless you for it. Your not ruled by money...you ruled by you....keep your heart and your money pure and good things await....
My thoughts exactly. Very well put.
Wise comment
Reg,
I've only recently (6 months or so) been following your site. You seem to be a man of consideration skill. I used to get "hazard" pay to drive a truck into New York City. I think you also get hazard pay to use your experience and skill. How much is the real question. The client wants to pay as little as possible, just like the forestry guy. He didn't want his crew to risk anything, so he hired you.
My final thought is, make as much as you can based on your skill. They can pay for safe past experience or they can live with the death of a less experienced climber for less money.
Take care my friend and take your time editing your videos. We can wait. 🌲
I'm of many minds on this topic. So many factors & circumstances involved. Highest level guys like yourself have the knowledge & experience to solve the tough puzzles, to abate hazard. But if the hazard can't be satisfactorily abated & there's no full proof escape, then you're venturing into the unknown. Despite being fearless, confident or full of knowledge from many past data points there's still those few stories or experiences where the unexpected occurred. So what's it worth to you to venture into the unknown? If you see the job first then price that in (many times you'll be cheaper than most but more than those suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect). If you don't get to see it, charge what you charge with the stipulation that you can stop if it looks like it's going south or maybe it's gonna take an extra day to do safely. As a contractor I've found when the boss is grateful there may be a bonus. You also still get a full days pay for all the short/ easy days so it all kind of evens out.
Thanks for your thoughts. Hows the heat down there ?
@@Recoates the SF Bay stays very cool during the summer. The outlying areas get quite hot tho. I'm actually contracting in PDX at the moment, where it hit 44-45°C ystrdy, great timing on my part...
@@Recoates I don't wanna bang on about this too much but I've definitely talk to climbers with less experience, in areas with smaller trees, lower costs of living & easier work charging more. It makes me think am I doing something wrong, am I being more fair, am I selling myself short or is the market just different. I don't know. But one thing is for sure, they thought of living where they live, doing what they do doesn't suit me. So maybe things are the way they are for a reason. Maybe I just need challenge and engagement and am content to get a living wage for it cuz anything less sounds like death by monotony...
Love your vids. Have been following you for many years know. Always looking forward to new post from you. Keep up the good work.
Your level of experience makes you worth more money. Even if you do the job knowing that you can do it with no more issues than you would get from a healthy tree. Having the know how is worth something…
I really appreciate seeing that there are still men like you who put the work in to be independent, never trade the “I” for “we”
I look at it just like you said Reg, it’s just the rate for how long the job is gonna take. Sometimes there’s extra rigging involved and it always takes more time to clean up dead trees but other than that it’s like saying “ I may die doing this so give me extra money and I will disregard that feeling to get it done”
No Way!
Great comments Reg.
Don’t short yourself! You’re a very experienced and talented arborist and you deserve to be rewarded for solving problems other people have a harder time with. As a contract climber I don’t think many companies would go for higher day rates for more dangerous trees. I’m a rare person that will consider paying a contractor more to help me solve a problem but most larger companies will not.
As for quoting jobs, I almost always charge more for more difficult and sketchy trees and I’ve yet to have an unhappy client. I don’t get every single job but I get most because I’m honest, trustworthy and I communicate clearly so that expectations are managed well.
There are some jobs I just choose not to quote because of risk and liability. Many of the jobs I quote don’t have anyone else quoting.
I’ve found ways to solve big problems for people especially in remote areas by using tools not everyone has and thinking outside the box and working smart. If I can single handedly do the work of an entire tree crew with trucks, winches, etc then I deserve to be paid accordingly. I keep getting the work over quite a few years now and have nothing but very satisfied clients that are more than happy to pay for a job well done.
I run my own business and some days just depending on the problems I can cleverly solve I can earn up to 5 or 6 times what I would get paid as a contract climber.
I’ve really gotten away from quoting hourly whenever I can help it as I always end up leaving too much money on the table. I’ve never had a single client give me crap for how much I made per hour if they work it back. They’re all just happy the job was done right.
Don’t be afraid to charge for great work. If you’re not getting the jobs you might be quoting too high, if you’re getting the work then you’re not too high!
Yes its all calculated with years of experience, but you have some courage my man.
KNOW YOUR WORTH!! Other companies don't want to "expose" their employees to a dangerous/difficult job. YOU are worth MORE!! More danger/difficulty equals more value.
Philadelphia checking in. Your knowledge and your demeanor is what brings me back. Keep up the good work Reg. Stay sharp in the trees!
you are a straight shooter, whom says it the way it is, you apparently have a reputation that you earned through many years and situations, no money can buy your experience, it must be earned. it's never too late to change your game, if your not starving, and need the jobs to survive, then next time, think about what you talked about during this video, and quote accordingly, you can always donate the money to someone or something that will make you feel good, because that's what life is all about, feeling good, not being rich with money. AWESOME video.
Rico here Reg. Fantastic video compilation at the beginning, and I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on dealing with truly dangerous trees. Keep doing what your doing and stay safe...
@Reg Coates A interesting and enjoyable conversation, my take is it's not about if you should be charging a higher price for the more dangerous trees or not. The reason or question should be are you entitled to be changing higher prices to clients for taking on the more dangerous jobs.
The answer is a resounding, yes; because, Reg, it's not about you asking the client to pay you extra for a job that's more dangerous, the client is paying you a higher price for your years of experience, expertise, knowledge, and abilities to be able to take on and professionally bring down those tricky and more dangerous trees and jobs safely and efficiently.
Cheers for the reel, Reg, subscribed.
Risk should always be considered & factored into the cost. As part of my past we did land clearing, landslide repair, & erosion control & re-vegetation. Absolute Safety was always a motto & a factor in pricing & completing a job. Brutal Honesty as well. Being absolutely honest in the assessment & pricing. The last thing a client wants is a disaster, serious injury, or death to occur. Safety must always be considered & a priority when developing a price.
The last thing I never wanted to do was to go to the home of one of my associates to tell his/her family their loved one wasn't coming home.
Reading your first comment, i realized that there are two separate perspectives in play in this general topic. There is the perspective of the business owner, and the perspective of the contractor.
The business owner has to account for the extra time required to work meticulously when things are tricky. If a contractor charges a day rate, or by the hour, then they may charge based on the skill they bring to the table, regardless of whether that skill is required by the job.
@@nate2838 I agree
Great courage. Obviously you do but still stay safe. Yes a lot of us have only watched you for years on TH-cam and not met you but we are all in your corner to stay safe and happy. All the best. Thank you for the positive reinforcement of key skills in our work.
i dig these experience spoken videos from ya reg! i csn imagine every senario you are describing in great detail without any need of footage .
Good stuff man like all the videos you posted . Thanks again
Personally I find myself taking on dangerous trees for less money when work is slow. Like winter months, or fringes of the busier part of the season. When lots of requests for work are coming in, I charge more for dangerous trees. Simply because there is easier money to be made.
This industry has inspired me to do more with my life in more ways than one. Your videos over the years have helped me keep my calm in unfamiliar situations and with that be far more efficient with my energy. I feel calmer subcontracting with familiar clients because I can solely concentrate on climbing , I keep the price the same so I don't bare more responsibility (in my mind) I'm happy with my level of ability and use subcontractors on my jobs maybe once a year , I'm based on the fens UK and rarely go above 80ft , cheers reg
Here's a simple formula for pricing hazard work:
Height of tree (in feet) ÷ diameter (in cm) x percentage of decay + square root of the number of roots sticking out of the ground ÷ the lean (in degrees) + wind speed (mm per second) x the number of the type of saw you're using (201, 572, etc).
This will give you the perfect number every time and the client will always say yes.
Hey Reg,
Great videos and thoughtful perspectives…I’d enjoy having a beer and chewing the fat with someone like you…
Being the owner of a small contractor business myself (10 people), one method of reviewing a ‘hazardous’ job cost might be to assume that you must utilize an employee to perform the work. In that case, it would reasonable to expect that an employee would be paid more to, for example, top a super tall tree, than to prune a semi-dwarf plum tree. The price differential would be variable and subject market conditions…ie- how many people are looking for work, etc. Only you, being the biz owner can properly balance the market variables; and your conclusive price will be evaluated within the overall market. Sounds like you have a rational outlook on life and humanity- if I were a potential employee, you would be considered a valuable employer. Keep up the good work!
Best regards,
Dan
PS: I’m an jazz guitarist in my off-time, happy to send you some hip chord changes to ‘Misty’!
@@ca-genmen Hey, I think you replied to my comment by mistake, instead of in the main thread. It wont be visible otherwise 👍
I understand where you're coming from Reg and in a different way I spent 47 yrs as an over the road trucker who ran the far north and some tough terrain off hyway ect. In no way was I paid more in the winter during a raging snow storm or freezing rain. There was always the option to park it but with experience and my own confidence that never occurred and at no time did I feel pressured to complete the job. Having said that after all those years with no accidents...lost time or insurance claims I'm now comfortable retired and very much at peace with my past career...cheers Reg and stay safe.
Not many can, could, or would do the tree work you do. You are one of the best in the industry. Literally. Your knowledge, skill, ability, composure and nerves are extraordinary.
Skilled labor. If anyone could or would do it we would not be having this conversation. Skilled indeed is Reg.
This is one of my favorite videos you’ve put out. Talking about the complexity of a job to someone who doesn’t understand and tries to fathom why we do what we do; impossible. Honest days work equals a honest days pay. Keep on doing what you’re do
This channel is a winner..you have a great camera presence also alot off skill,good safe practices and safety awareness and a massive set of balls..from nz chur
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts in this issue. I think similarly with you can or you can’t! Most of the guys charging more don’t wish to do the job or only if they make really good money on it. Personally I enjoy the challenge and trusting your experience and knowledge to do the jobs safely and efficiently and go home. Thanks David
Great video Reg ! I think that you’re a very calculated, experienced climber but your life is not replaceable to your family. If you’re going to do the hazardous jobs you should get hazard pay ! The other tree companies only call you when they don’t want their men hurt or killed. Be careful out there , you’re worth it !
As a climber that solely climbs to manage my own woodlands I can't share my thoughts on this aspect of tree care, what I can say is that your integrity & reasoning is of the most respectable I've had the privilege to observe. It is amazing how nearly 40 minutes of you sharing your thoughts seemed to fly by in mere moments. A sincerely engaging discussion, and I thank you for each video you put out.
Great video and things to ponder. Thank you
I started as a climber back in the early 70's at the age of 22 retired now at 72 yrs old .I worked in the north east .We climbed big trees but nothing as massive as on the west coast.But as far as pricing the job we never charged more for a dead or live or dangerous tree if it could be done safely we did it.so to charge more makes no sense to me .good work Reg.
Hey Reg, I'm coming over from Buckin'Billy Ray's channel, just watched the video you guys shot when visiting CARMANAH VALLEY , what a magnificent place! I liked and subscribed. Regards from Sweden 🇸🇪
Here's my 2c (please follow through to the end - the main point is there) as an ex-climber (15 years climbing) who retired due to recurring injuries and returned to college to become a safety professional (I have a fair idea what you think of those.. lol). For reference, when I was climbing, I would have been very much one of those employees who would have had a crack at any of those trees if asked. I was on occasion asked to do things that were pushing the envelope of my abilities (not all of which went perfectly smoothly, but all of which I learned from and became better because of).
I am of the same mindset - the size doesn't matter, the principles are the same; the only difference is the consequences. Ultimately though, it comes down to - either you can or you can't. Danger shouldn't be a factor. As I said, the only difference is the consequences, which won't matter if it goes how you expect. If it's that dangerous that you feel you have to charge more because of the risk, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
That being said, your knowledge and experience is a commodity. If you're on price work, doing "normal" tree work, the value of the commodity increases organically, because you will simply be more productive and therefore earn more. If however you're doing work that an employer doesn't feel confident in assigning to their own employees, your value (knowledge and experience) equates to the ability to safely complete the work. The operative word is "safely". In other words, the employer puts more trust in your judgement - the product of your knowledge and experience, than in the judgement of their own employees. He trusts that you will know if it can be climbed safely or not and that if you say it can't be climbed safely, then it probably can't be climbed safely. You should absolutely charge more for dangerous for this reason alone.
This industry is competitive in terms of pricing. The employer may find other climbers and may factor in the costs in deciding to go with someone else and I'm sure there are several climbers who would be willing to undercut each other, in a manner that serves nobody and in the end undervalues the industry. However, I feel that you specifically have a reputation as one of the top climbers in the industry and it's people like you who should be leading the charge. I think you should be thinking about how much you can charge, while still providing value, rather than the black and white of either you can or you can't. You still need to be competitive to get work, no doubt, and I'm not suggesting that you try to rinse your clients, but I do think you should consider the value that your knowledge and experience brings to the customer depending on the situation.
(That's my point above - The next bit is meandering thoughts as a safety manager). Safety in general is about a number of really in-depth aspects, insulating employers against claims being right up there. I find that a common sense approach is lacking widely in the profession. In this instance, the obligation is to reduce the risk to as low as reasonably practicable. The reasonably practicable part is a minefield and is often why the profession lacks common sense. You usually only find out what was "reasonable" when the judge decides during the hearing. These companies in hiring you, are using your expertise and knowledge to deflect some of that fall-out - there are precedents in law which provide for deferring risk based on the reasonable expectations of the client in the expert's ability. This also adds value to what you are doing. In a perfect world, all climbers/employers/clients would realise this and pay accordingly. Undercutting and the competitive nature of the business paints over this though.
Have you any thoughts on technical advancements that could be made to further the business? If money was no object for example, would there be a safer way to get these trees down? 300ft MEWP maybe? Lol.
Hear hear
Well said!
Reg, I hope you see this comment..
I'll save you the long winded comment I just erased, and simply tell you that your videos are so greatly appreciated, and the value you have given me is immeasurable. Thank you. As a new tree company and climber, I know that I have found a great store of knowledge in your videos.
Dangerous and hazardous tree in most cases present challenges that not everyone can safely take on. Your level of knowledge and skill get put into work and you should be compensated accordingly. Stay safe Reg much love!!!!!
Reg sometimes I've had to bid jobs where I had to remove dead branches above a slate roof home. I charged more for that than I would if the tree wasn't near any targets. Even with careful planning, rigging, and patience you may have a small stick totally shatter one of those slate shingles, and that can get pricey quick.
Thanks for all the excellent content Reg. I've been watching your videos for a long time.
Thank you for doing what you do.
Reg, good video. I own a tree service and I’m the climber. I charge extra for dangerous trees or situations. You have many years of experience and if it’s a dangerous tree or situation you should be paid more. I don’t charge daily rates. I quote every job and I never quote a tree without looking at the tree and soundings.
Hi Reg. I think i should charge more in general 😂
What I meant by the tone of your voice is that it feels to me like YOU think its worth more. Any-hoo, I'm glad to see and hear the dialog; it seems like a privelidge to be included. The amount of effort and risk in a relatively simple job seems massive to someone like me that has done mostly easy firewood jobs. Some are a little sketchy, but unless they pose a hazard to a building or somebody's safety, you let the next windstorm get them down.
Reg, thanks for sharing your perspective on this.
When I look at any job my first decision is "can I do it"??? If the answer is "no" then it's no.
If the answer is "yes", then I price it according to the amount of time/work/effort I will need to
actually get the job done. I assess and evaluate on what you were saying, either I can do the job
or I can't. I have heard/read many climbers talk about "risk based" pricing and I do understand
what they are saying. For me personally, I'm not comfortable charging customers for my "anxiety".
I very much appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experience through video and conversation.
I don't have the opportunity to work directly with experienced climbers and getting an honest and
straightforward point of view on subjects like this is a big help.
Cheers Reg, and keep yourself safe. 😃👍❤️🌲
Randy
Hi Reg !
Thanks for the vid. Always on top buddy!
English is not my first language but I’ll do my best ;-)
I agree, you can or you cant. But dont forget, maybe its the experience and self confidence in your self that tells you if you can or if you cant do the job or not. Before I became an Arborist I was an underwriter and basically, what you make sure of charging for is risk. Not trying to establish credability or anything but I did that for a long time. If there is one thing private customers or companys understand it is this because they can relate to it if the job and the method are explained well to the customer. As an Arborist I often talk to customers about this and I my experience is that higher risk is easier to have a two way conversation about than lets say whay you should prune a scertain tree a scertain way. So, I think it is not only resonable to charge for higher risk. It is also a reflection of you and what you can do and as we all know, you are King Louie personified and you can do it! Stay safe and please keep the vids coming. Love it !
Absolutely justified that any dangerous work which requires specialized knowledge and higher skills will command higher reward. It shouldn't even be a point of contention.
Great discussion Reg. Time is time. I feel with higher risk I may need to be more cautious (slower), extra set up, more inspection as I get higher up. I don't have many scenarios where pieces can just be dropped, so extra time to develop rigging plans for a dead tree, etc. Often, that takes extra time which increases cost. In the cases where I could do it at the same pace as a comparable healthy tree, then I can agree not increasing the cost.
I believe I understand what you are saying you can either do the job or not,if you charge more for something being hazardous why would you risk your life over a little more money! A very honest and interesting piece of information.👍👍
I don't have the opportunity or need to climb as much as you do, but I do hazardous work and most all involve hazards to property etc., I quote these jobs completely on the difficulty and hazard, and even the experience that I may have that others may not with the knowledge that they may not be able to even get someone else, that said, I do work way to cheap sometimes just because I know the people can not afford any work to be done, but because their home is in danger they have no choice. And then sometimes I give what I feel is a fair quote and I just plain underbid it for the work that took place. Let your conscience be your guide, but be as fair to your family as you are to anyone else. I really hope to get to work a few days with you someday, take care Reg and be well.
If your anxiety is up, your price should be as well, commensurate to the comfort level of risk you have to "take" by planning a safe job to go home at the end of the day. I'd say in most cases where people are asking you to bid or do the work, you can bid a fair price by risk level and they would be happy to pay you. Never apologize for your high skill level bringing you a better than fair price, you pay for expertise (ya get what ya pay for) in your case, that would be excellence in your care while you do the job, safely. Have a good one Reg and keep up the great work and your vids, they are so calming on this end! 🐶
With the hazard trees, you should be payed for your experience! Getting the job done safely is well worth it. So yes definitely charge more money ! Another great video and a discussion that should be talked about! Take care reg from 🏴
Firstly I watched the whole video before commenting ! Secondly I feel you answered your question near 38 minutes and 41 . Third , I'm new to climbing inspired by you and others and can't wait to climb a dead red oak in my backyard that I know is still strong enough ( because of other dead ones I've fallen ) ! I just have to get out there and get in the tree and do it , I will know or make the decision while I'm climbing it to stop ! Reg I believe at this point you can charge more for hazard trees , just depends on how hungry a guy is !
Reg your a very interesting human you have 110 percent of my respect
Aye Reg, your spot on I've never been paid better for dangerous trees either but I think sometimes we should. On the other hand some people pay for that type of adrenaline 🙂
Reg, ask for more $$$. You’re the best at your craft.
Reg's skills and knowledge of treework is on an elite level.
Thanks for the vids, love 'em. The only thing you need to consider is what you reckon your competitors would change. From what you've said sounds like you have plenty of scope to charge more for more difficult/dangerous jobs.
Yes it is! It's worth more money,especially the heights you climb to do your job.
I would be constantly wondering more than i should be about a failure in a hazard tree while changing stress loads and roping. Alot of what ifs involved.
Some potential customers wonder about your experience when price
Isn't high enough sometimes,more so when they've possible received estimates from other companies.
Definitely they are worth more! I wouldn’t under bid a big or dangerous job ever again and I’ve done my share in the past, I now will over bid big/dangerous jobs so high if I get it great at least I’m making good money and if not all well. In my area of the Oregon coast we all as tree service companies try and stay within a similar day rate with each other and I can often tell if a customer had multiple bids on a big nasty job right off the bat I know not to under bid myself.. keep up the good work RC thx for putting out real life tree work 🤙
Great Subject, Its your Art Them Trees are the worst and you have the Knowledge and Experience. Thanks for the video... love them Trees...
You did that last tree for 800.00, that was gravy, dead but done well, your charge was what you were comfortable with.
Charge at your normal criteria with the Risk factors that you know will get done safely you do the work you ask for what you want, knowing who hired you has no clue what you are faced with..there should be that medium you should be over and not under, from your contractor's offer..Like to have seen the Job Done, ...Keep up the Good Work.
Great video for thoes who wonder if they could do a job that is so dangerous, sometimes is best to think about your self and not the money, there will be more work ahead. Saying no is okay
You know how it is, Reg..
Two men can be doing exactly the same special work, but the reason for their job can be totally different.. One is maybe in this to teach the public about the right technique for staying safe at this kind of work. The other is a good example of empathy and admiration towards all the beings of the creation and this work he does is just a tool to fullfil his real calling..To wake up some people to see what he sees..
I know you know exactly. We are here not for the money. Just go onward listening to your heart.
And deep thanks🙏
Great video mate! I did a gumtree a few weeks ago now I called it pizza with the lot. Pretty ugly tree snap outs defects and mushrooms. and yes hazardous it was. I was honest and said this will cost slightly more due to the extra care I would need to take in bringing it down with out properly damage or to myself. And they were fine with it as I also put there job Infront of other jobs to give them peace of mind from it doing damage to there house and shed. Keep up the great work mate and just do what works and feels right for you. I don't always charge more just because it's tricky but sometimes you have to
I watched this video late last night and I am still mulling it over. Definitely food for thought. Will continue to "mull" and hope to get back to you with some sort of completed thought.
I have worked as a certified I.F.M.G.A. {International Federation of Mountain Guide Associations}, A.C.M.G. {Association of Canadian Mountain Guides} "mountain guide" so I have seen and experienced some dangerous situations. In my early 60's started messing around with this tree work here in Japan (central Nagano Prefecture). Now at 72 years of age I have basically retired from mountain guiding but I am still doing the tree work and enjoying it. Anyway, I have to agree with you Reg Coates that you either know what you are doing or you don't, and if you do well then, unless there is something else going on, the "danger tree" probably doesn't justify a premium price.
Reg, I watch your video's because I am entertained by your skill and knowledge about saws, ropes, climbing, gear required, tree types etc etc. As a tradesman myself, I recognise that the knowledge you have is worth a great deal. The island job you did was because nobody else would do it... they didn't know how to minimise the risk or weren't willing to take that risk. The Manager Matt might be a nice guy, but my guess is he gets you in either because none of his staff will do it or it is less paperwork if a subbie hits the ground (health and safety is wonderful). My advice is for those types of jobs charge more. How you do that... maybe a danger fee on top of your daily rate? Start low and work your way up until you stop getting work and then you know the market rate?
Reg, in my opinion the answer is yes! Yes, you need to charge more for dangerous trees. They are not paying for you to take thaf tree down in an hour. They are paying for your experience and judgment which allowed you to take that tree down in an hour.
When I present a high bid to a client I discuss 4 topics with them. 1st is Risk - this includes but not limited to risk to the climber (includes tree health, weather, power lines), risk to nearby structures/property/other workers etc. 2nd is risk mitigation - what things do I need to do to mitigate the risks discussed above (this is where experience and good judgement is valued). 3rd is size of the tree ans 4th is scope (cleanup vs no cleanup) etc.
Dangerous work is always worth an up charge. Even in my business (oilfield construction) hazardous work beyond the routine, is going to be paid a premium accordingly.
There should be no guilt or hesitation on the part of the customer or service provider to adequately compensate or expect to be compensated for high risk work AND YOUR ADVANCED EXPERIENCE.
Love your videos, stay safe.
You sound exactly like my father, he has been exploited his whole working life, there is no talking to him, he is self employed, in his 80's and still going strong. Know your worth. A job is priced by what it is worth to the customer, not what it is worth to you. Your knowledge and experience are worth money. If it takes you less time than the next man, that is where you make more money. If someone else can't, or can't be trusted, that is where you make more money. If everyone can do it, its worth little. If only you can do it, it's worth however much you want, or else it doesn't get done. Routine to you does not make it routine. An apprentice does not get paid what a craftsman get paid. I'm not saying it is right to do this, I'm not saying it is wrong either, but I am saying this is what the rest of the world does, so if you don't then you are loosing out. You could either work less hard, work less time, or make more money, but one thing is for sure, people love to take advantage of other people, if you are not gaining an advantage then the other person is, usually. That is cynical I'm afraid, but its also true.
If I can do a job myself, I do it myself, 1) if I enjoy it or want to do it, 2) If it costs me less to do it myself. I hate paying someone to do something I can do, I can do a lot, but that is WRONG, you are devaluing yourself by doing this, spend your time doing things ONLY you can do, that is where your value is. I pay someone 1) If I can't do it or can't be bothered, 2) my time and earnings in my job are worth more than the time it would take me or the cost of paying someone to do the job for me. Every CEO can answer a phone, can every call handler make a deal and build a company? What does the CEO spend his time doing, and how much is that worth? Including to all the call handlers employed by the company? Does he make more than the call handlers, damn right he does. Does a good CEO make more than an average CEO? People tend to undervalue themselves. No one likes rejection or not winning a job, it makes you a loser doesn't it? Only assholes are full of their own self importance, right? Then there is the other angle, Its not worth anything extra, because I'm soooo good everything is simple to me, and if that floats your boat then enjoy the ride just like my father does.
Love your approach, care and attention, the video's and channel, and BC, it all just oozes class. I'm like a leech for it all, this is my attempt to give back as you asked for opinion.
@Granville W "A job is priced by what it is worth to the customer, not what it is worth to you." This is an excellent way to describe pricing in any business.
I feel similar to what you are saying because as a tree climber Ive noticed that some mediocre arborists charge a ton of money for what to a tree climber seems like easy work, whereas really skilled people like Reg sometimes charge less for much more difficult work. A good example is how often hedgeing is priced at the same rate as hazard tree removal, which blows my mind. It seems really wrong, but its hard to get away from either undercharging or overcharging. I do think we need to be honest and fair but also like you said, know what our work is worth
@@kristoferkehler5279 I will climb any tree but I bid hedges to NOT get them
Great conversation piece. I think this needs to be talked about and taken into consideration more in our industry. I own a tree service and I've found that usually big fat spready oaks here in Maryland are not very profitable. I do best as a business owner and business manager (owner operator), doing smaller, average, easy trees. Not very often do I make much profit from big, fat, stupid trees.
I think some guys get more wrapped up in the look what I can do mentality then actually charging appropriately.
I honestly think if your doing a super risky tree that you should charge more. I know you feel like you have it under control but your definitely taking an extra risk. Most climbers probably wouldn't do the trees that you showed in the beginning. I've seen many climbers get out of trees for many reasons. Your experience and skill set is what they are inevitably paying you for. When your pushing you life to the limits at your job you should be compensated for that.
My father always said, “If you want to make a lot of money, you have to be able to do what no one else can.” When no one wants the job, your experience and expertise should be compensated if you take it on.
Hi Reg, I have been running my Own treeservice for about 5 to 6 years now. Trees overhere (the netherlands) generally are alot smaller Then where you are, then again we are Dealing in tiny garden workareas. To awnser your question: I take the same aproach you do. My hourly rate is what it is. Its based on my experience. I make a plan, an estimate. And start solving the puzzle. Best i can. To me it d be odd charging a different rate. mayby it is oldfashioned. Maybe even naive to Some. To me it feels right. Thanx for all the vids. Much appreciated!!!
reg, first I'd like to say I really enjoy your videos because along with technical insight, you give your personal perspective.to your question about charging more for danger trees, in every profession there are levels of expertise. I'm an auto tech. I'm an ase master and subaru senior master in my field.i couldn't command a premium for doing oil changes because a lower level tech can do the same job with the same outcome.however if there is a job no one else can do, my expertise comes into account and I can command a premium for it (as well I should) because I've spent thousands of hours honing my skill set to accommodate the job.in this instance the customer is paying for the experience I've already paid for.i get your point that you can do it or you cant.thats not in question. the questions (x2) are how long did it take me to gain this experience so I can do it, and can anyone else safely do it? you should also consider futures.like if I get hurt,what happens to my family and employees etc.being honest and fair to the customer is admirable.but there's something to be said for being fair to yourself as well.
I'd say it's a personal choice Reg, some people do charge more whether it's dangerous, a short window like some TPO loopholes or even if the customer looks worried because of size, even though to us it's easier than a smaller tree that happens to be a more technical job. I know with me being a subbie it's a sort of "why should I be a shark for a few extra quid" putting more stress on the business owner/private customer, as there's usually a tip at the end of the job anyway when everyone's a lot calmer and happy, and the business owners are usually good friends aswell.
Apart from extra equipment like a crane I reckon you could charge more but its definitely a "what does your conscience tell you" kinda thing. Thanks for the videos Reg, they're really good mate 👌 👍
Higher danger = more money.
For me that's a clear thing. Every company will charge more for higher risk.
I feel like this is a no brainer. Especially out where I am with tree work, 60% of the time people have no clue what they’re asking for...trees will be touching wires and over hanging house and they think all you do is just cut it down. I seriously have encountered people look at 85 foot oak trees that were inbetween 3 houses and wonder why it’s 5500 dollar removal
I would probably pass on most of those trees you showed at the start. Well done getting them all down safely. My biggest issue with wind is is I get seasick by looking around at all the movement. This feeling makes me weaker and more likely to make poor choices.
I hear ya Reg, pretty clearly as well. We don’t have such tall and big trees here as overthere, but they can be pretty sketchy sometimes. But in the end, for us it’s just ’another day, another dollar’ and doing what you do almost every day. Like a guy at some bank counting money and depositing it, every day all day. I don’t think he charges more, if it is a different sort of money or a heavier bag?
Sometimes people here also say that one can charge more for stormdamaged trees, because ’the insurance pays anyways’. 🤔. Well, not with us, because of the same fact I mentioned.
It took me 3 days to find the time the time to watch this video 😋. But now it’s midsummer break and we got 3 days of relaxin’ overhere in Finland 😎.
Take care and be carefull 👊
Love the knuckle curl when the top is moving off the hinge. Way to keep the fingers in tact 😉
Its the big guy himself 👍Nice to hear from you Mark.
@@Recoates love catching your videos bro. Keep it up! 💯
@@markchisholm1181 glad you managed to sit through it. I start talking, and then 30 minutes later Im still talking. We never did get that pint....you dodged the bullet there
@@Recoates I'm down whenever the opportunity hits my man! I'll be all over it when it happens.
Reg I'm Surprised at this Question ! But I sort of understand the problem . Often firms quote on Need based on overheads Business Running costs . RISK is often under valued Experience is Also under valued But as you ended the Video You know Most People get a Number of Quotes And choose the cheapest - Then down the line call the better Company in to clean up the mess of an inexperienced Crew . I think with the upmost Respect You are you're own Problem as your skill level fears less than many other firms so equaling Lower Quotes on Risk Jobs . underbidding One Conversation to be Had is with Matt you say he's a nice Guy So Ask him out right at what level of charge do you stop using Us and Risk your own Men If I ask you more for Risk will you pay it as he understands the risk a householder does not care or needs it explaining as how would they know other than falling branches from time to time etc . you may be asking this question late in the game But above all you've done it your Way . Lots of House holders Consider themselves clever to out smart people on quotes you know that better than Me Sir YES is the Answer Risk is Worth More .
I have always charged more for dangerous trees always even if a tree has a shitload of vines all over it I charge more just because it's 10 times more work a dangerous tree your life is at risk way more so it's definitely worth the money. Reg you are the man you are very inspiring
I've seen most of the vids and live them all. What was the electricity one? That was terrifying. A good man is worthy of his hire. Charge em good. They all love u like we do!!
Best point over put in words. Was the superman scenario!!!
there is a story / joke about a company that had a machine that they couldn't get it to run right. all their mechanics and electricians couldn't figure what was wrong so they called and old retired guy in to help them out. the guy came in and looked at the machine for about 15 minutes. then he got his tools out and took a couple measurements and took his hammer and hit one of the cross members on the machine. he said, "alright, start it up". the machine started running perfect. the old guy wrote out a bill for $1000.00. the company man said, "all you did was take a couple measurements and hit the cross member on the machine, we could have done that, why are you charging so much". the old guy says, "it's all about where to hit it and how hard to hit it". So for you Reg, it's about how to rig and how to cut it safely that counts.
If the risk is high one must have more safety margin. Money is part of that. If lets say 1 in 10 of these trees I have to rent a lift, call a crane guy or go home and come back an other day because of weather conditions after giving a price that must be baked in.
More anxiety and strain on the body might take more rest to recover from. So also that should be baked in.
And the fact that fewer people can do it. It's worth more and they pay for years of experience and hard work. We all have done jobs that ended up with a horrible low hourly pay due to it taking longer time. Some times YOU got to the one that get the better deal.🙂
Thank you for sharing.😁👍❤
"You don't have to fall far too dye"
Instant classic Reg quote.
You make solid points throughout the video, all valid. But I would also say that throughout my life in the trades, the higher the risk, often the higher the operating cost and also the higher the bill for more dangerous services. That is how it goes. More danger=more technical approach=more $$. All this is easily quantified by relevant experience required to tackle such a job. A person who does not or has not encountered certain circumstances would not be tooled to undertake such a job. Look at it another way. Say one company quoted that they could remove a tree but they would need to use their crane to do it safely. You also quote the same tree removal but you have no crane, and yet you can still get it done. Are you not worth more $$? Are you not eligible to charge more for that job? If your skill can replace a crane, I think that justifies it.
Wonderful work!
What kind of music is in the first part of the video, before the monologue.
I started typing this out about 6 minutes in; for me what I get uncertain about as a new tree cutter, is what constitutes as dangerous due to my own unique circumstances. I'm 6'5" and 245lbs, I'm strong and athletic but not a natural climber, and I don't see many folks my size going up trees. There's a tree I'm going to put a bid on next week and I am turning my mind upside just trying to figure out if it's crazy for me to try to climb. Super crispy dead and bark is falling off.
So that's where I'm at in this journey. Thank you for the video and discussion.
I think the reality is Reg, you're honest and trustworthy .Rather than charging more because you can ,your integrity and experience almost outweighs that thought ?But I don't think it should. Personally if I had your level of knowledge (and balls ) I would charge a lot more - risk based as you've been saying. I have worked with people that charge what on earth they like for some jobs if they " need " doing in a certain time frame.( dangerous or project related)
I had seem someone else said on this thread say that hedging is also expense and often priced at the same . In the Uk this can also be true . As a business we are incurring similar costs to do both the tree and large hedge work , plus there can be lots of chipping if it's being reduced. So the price seems to be often very similar.
To me you're a very skilled arborist and id be expecting to pay top money to get your services in, if a client cant see your value you might want to send them to your TH-cam Chanel to broaden their horizons and give them a little more perspective.
Top videos Reg, very engaging
Thanks for posting videos. My work is all forest related, no houses etc. That said, if folks have the money charge more for rotten tree work. Crown and Provincial entities have the resources to pay. "Site Specific" is good term. Long dry Summers equal snags and compromised big wood drying out. When the first Fall/Winter storms come in and load compromised trees with rainwater, the wind does the rest. We all know which direction the storm winds come from depending on where we live. If someone wants a compromised tree removed in late Fall and the strong winds are blowing in advantageous direction why not let mother nature do the removal. If tree is standing after storm it is good enough to climb. Nice to see a blaster on your video collection, reminds me of my dog who was a tree blaster specialist. I could literally tell someone new that was grounding to be where the dog was when I came out of tree. Instead of barking yell fire in the hole.