The way to fight this is to install batteries. They’re coming down in price and there are many options now. Self consume your solar energy and have a backup for power outages.
You can’t because FPL got the government to require connection to the grid. You are only allowed to use batteries in instance of power loss. Once power is returned you must continue to consume power from the grid, they monitor you so they know if you are not.
@@swickatine13 But if you have a large enough battery to store all of your excess power then you won't need to use the grid as your reserve you will just be connected to it but not utilizing it so you still won't pay anything more than the service charge.
Battery prices are going up, dramatically, not down. There’s only one lithium mine in the US and new permits are being turned down. Even if batteries were getting cheaper, almost nobody goes off grid w a full time residence and solar-battery. Far, far too expensive, so that’s just talk. They all have generators behind the curtain.
@Donovan Lewis you must be a nube here in Florida . Florida does require grid tie in for both water and power. If you are not tied in you are in code violation and can be ordered to remove the dwelling or tie in. There is a well known case in Tampa I’m sure you can research
The government will be losing tax dollars as more people go to solar and get off grid, no more paying sales tax on your electrical consumption. Especially with the loss of road use gasoline tax with more electric cars. Watch for tax and spend democrats to find a way to tack on additional taxes to maintain the poverty required for them to be in power.
@@gregpeterman1102 maybe then we can move into a post-scarcity, post-capitalist world! With NO taxes! No money, No currency! Kind of like a Star Trek world, where businesses are hobbies, instead of profit driven, like Sisko’s Restaurant! Cook all day in the kitchen, for ONLY a smile from a customer.
Electric company's will loose out of the profit. That's what they are concerned about. Sickening that being more energy dependent and helping pollution, big business and government stands in people way all the while saying we need to be the opposite. Dumb.
Utility solar is five times cheaper, more reliable, using less resources than rooftop. So, doing rooftop and making the utility pay is not so good for the environment. Good for the multi million $ residential PV installer industry.
@@Nill757 : Amazing technology is every day now. Efficient appliances, home systems following you through the house turning off unoccupied spaces. If there is just a mass die off of humans, without the chaos of a fall, those left will have an amazing future. Robots will do almost anything. Less people means more for the rest. Or global failure.
@@TahoeJones “Amazing …more for the rest” It’s people that make amazing things, though we have so many problems. Indeed, I’m an engineer and one of the makers. You’re a more-for-me taker.
I'm glad to hear DeSantis vetoed the bill but i'm sure they'll try again. Great deal for the Electric company when you're forced to sell to them the power you produce at 50 cents on the dollar and forced to buy it back from them at full price. A bill like that should have never made it as far as it did in the first place.
the GQP sucks hopefully with the help of the new yorkers and californians moving here we can dump these horrible politicians LIKE DEATHSANTIS and his gang of pedophiles like matt gaetz
Isn't that what government wants, clean energy and help climate change? If government goes against people who have solar, is it not a contradiction. It's companies are greedy, communities should have and maintain own grid with out monopoly companies who have gained off of people. Companies should not be able to add surcharges that are milking and hurting the poor and middle class. Something must change.. Power back to the communities
If that were true it should be easy to point out large numbers of single family homes (not shacks), schools, hospitals that have gone off grid, no utility wire on the side of the building, and no fossil fuel generator hiding behind the curtain. The reason these mythical buildings are not pointed out is because they don’t exist. There are many people that like to pretend they don’t need the grid because they have some highly subsidized PV on the roof, which they never clean, which costs 5x more than utility solar, and that somebody else should be paying for that big fat utility wire which is still there, supplying power 24/7, night day winter summer. Nobody subsidized cell phones and the cell network. It was actually cheaper than maintenance of the landline utility, which is why it spread rapidly through even the poor parts of the world where no subsidy could be offered. Roof top solar is not cheaper than the utility version, not even close. And, cell service works all the time 24/7, unlike rooftop solar.
@@Nill757 You obviously do not know what you are talking about, since LiFePO4 batteries came out, it's a new ball game. Maybe you need to look at the latest retirement trends where thousands of people are relying only on solar to power their tiny homes and recreational vehicles. Nobody is buying gasoline generators anymore. Go to Quartzite Arizona and ride around the dessert, you will be surprised at the thousands who are living rent free with no utility bills. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "roof top solar is not cheaper than the utility version" heck, it's practically FREE, and no moving parts to wear out or break down. People who are still paying utility bills are living in the past.
@@gregpeterman1102 “ride around the desert…” to see the “new retirement trend”. Lol. People been living out of RVs and trailers and old boats and woods shacks for generations w a couple PV panels and a propane stove. Yeah you can live that way, some can live in a hut or a cave, but it’s no new wave of anything, surely can not run hospital/school/factory/family home that way, and gas for the RV/boat running the generator (every RV has one) is not free, propane is not free,running clothes to the laundry mat is not free. When gasoline hits $8 or so, that’ll be the end RV America. It use to be people living independent like that just went about their business, now some think they’re saving the world. Lol. Any reputable source will show the price of rooftop solar vs utility solar (not the same as a utility bill, the price for 24/7) ie Lazard, IEA. Utility buys panels by the 100 thousand, points them due south, not which ever way the old roof is pointed, uses single axis tracking of the sun, insures no shading anywhere, uses most efficient inverters, cleans them regularly. Rooftop typically does none of this, wasting resources and lifetime of the panels. Of course rooftop is far more expensive per kWh.
You want to stop this rise in cost? Change the buyback to wholesale prices not retail. They already buy it cheaper from the provider of the power than they do from the end user the home owner. Why these people are doing solar coops. They’re buying at wholesale prices rather than retail to get better deals. It’s an obvious thing and for adults and consumers to not know this is ridiculous. Hell if anyone was smart, they’d contact the power company themselves and arrange a wholesale price on their own.
BS... because even if I buy a battery that stores all of my additional power and I then use that power at night, thus essentially making me energy independent for about 7 months out of the year, the electric companies still want me to pay them about 100 dollars per month in their new taxes.
Lol and most homeowners still gawk at you like it's a scam. The real scam is having zero choice in where your power comes from, and being forced into every changing rates by the utilities.
This isn't anything new. Nice try spinning this politically. It's still very viable to go solar, but the net metering monthly connect fee should've changed to zero. Folks are doing the grid a favor being connected to it. It adds stability. Also, over time solar is still cheaper than not. Would've been nice to see where the state gets its energy from. Here in MN its less than 5%. Then you'll see the true impact of the bill.
If they kill net metering, who the hell would buy solar if it takes 20 years to get your investment back? The vast majority of Americans wont stay in a house for 20 years. Lets say you put up 30k for solar and you live in the house for 8 more years.... you didnt come close to even breaking even, meaning you spent more for your solar power than it would have been to just buy from the grid, which is exactly what the electric companies want as they know damn well people are going to say no thank you to buying solar if this garbage in Ca is passed....... just like they intended.
Not a word you stated is fact. 1) Solar is only cheaper when government arbitrarily raises energy rates. It should always be cheaper to buy in bulk. Its not because government keeps adding costs that have zero to do with energy. If you should be able to buy energy at seven cents per kilowatt hour, but government charges you 20, its arbitrary to be that high and really just a tax. 2) Solar is subsidized. Meaning solar companies get tax dollars. If a panel costs $500, then the company gets $250 in subsidies, it can be sold for a profit for anything over $250. However, those subsidies were paid in taxes. Its worse when those subsidies aren't just at the company level, they extend to the buyer (I.e. the solar tax "credit" which is now 30%). You can hide that high cost when only a few use it, not when it expands to everyone. 3) Most people are getting 25 year loans. The math "may" make sense lowering the monthly payment over twenty five years. If you actually knew how many systems have failed in less than 5, let alone 10, 15, or 20 or more years, you should realize most people pay the money up front and a large percentage get screwed. Their system fails. The math falls apart. LG already quit making solar panels (they were the 2nd largest supplier in the US). 4) Net metering has always been a way to con people into long-term math. Your government, as usual, never meant for you to have low costs. They got people to buy expensive solar on fuzzy math, and are already reneging on their promises. This about extracting as much money from you as possible.
@@trevorwesterdahl6245 the givt isn't raising rates as the govt doesn't provide power. Pg&e is a publicly traded private business. There is a reason subsidies are given... the govt pushed the technology and needed it to make financial sense to early adopters. Panels are no different than any other technology. When microwaves first came out as with tvs, they cost a fortune. It's that still true today?
The rich monopoly want to have their gold hot tubs and golden jacuzzis and private island. God forbid they have to get an Asian butler instead of their favorite black butler.
Most solar people say "our bill is now only $20 a month, and we used to pay $200" what they dont tell you that on top of the new $20 a month they are now paying $200 for the solar panels. All they are doing is switching who provides power and sometimes actually pay more per month.
You are partially correct. You do have to pay for the solar panels but once they are paid off your bill will be $20 a month. It just like buying a car; once your note is paid off the car is yours.
except that 200 a month goes away after about 7 years.... then in 7 years that 200 a month is about 270 a month to the electric company (with no panels) and then for the next 13 plus years you pay the minimum connect fee. I dont care who does or doesnt get solar, but stop trying to make it like solar owners arent coming out ahead.... ell, until the electric companies get their way and tax the hell out of us.
@@reid1boys A solar panel that cost 200 a month does not go away in 7 years. A $200 a month panel system will go away in 20 years. Not sure where you are getting your math from. And by the time you pay it off those panels may have to be replaced so you will have to start over again and buy new panels. Nothing is made to last forever.
Hmm interesting. Have you ever looked up the cost of going solar and what the monthly payments would be for it ? I have and depending on the solar panels I chose the total cost for me would be around 20k total costing "O" about $100.00 a month after a 20% deposit and that is for a full system total power off grid.
@@diegolara4202 you ever buy a car? If you buy a car for 15k and finance it for 7 years, that is 84 months. that is 178 bucks per month. add in interest and lets say it is ROUGHLY 200 per month. Then your system is paid off and you only pay the connect fee. You are nuts if you dont think you are coming out ahead. Only in my case, my system was 34k, $23,400 after 30% federal tax credit. I am currently on year 6 of my system,. I have about 1 year before my electricity is 100% free.
The way to fight this is to install batteries. They’re coming down in price and there are many options now. Self consume your solar energy and have a backup for power outages.
You can’t because FPL got the government to require connection to the grid. You are only allowed to use batteries in instance of power loss. Once power is returned you must continue to consume power from the grid, they monitor you so they know if you are not.
@@swickatine13 But if you have a large enough battery to store all of your excess power then you won't need to use the grid as your reserve you will just be connected to it but not utilizing it so you still won't pay anything more than the service charge.
Battery prices are going up, dramatically, not down. There’s only one lithium mine in the US and new permits are being turned down. Even if batteries were getting cheaper, almost nobody goes off grid w a full time residence and solar-battery. Far, far too expensive, so that’s just talk. They all have generators behind the curtain.
@Donovan Lewis And yet there are no true micro grids in FPL area for full time residences without using fossil power. Sounds like another con.
@Donovan Lewis you must be a nube here in Florida . Florida does require grid tie in for both water and power. If you are not tied in you are in code violation and can be ordered to remove the dwelling or tie in. There is a well known case in Tampa I’m sure you can research
The utility companies nationwide are price gouging✓✓
Not just electric companies, all companies price gouge
Ever heard of Enron? Lol. Rolling blackouts....
The government will be losing tax dollars as more people go to solar and get off grid, no more paying sales tax on your electrical consumption. Especially with the loss of road use gasoline tax with more electric cars. Watch for tax and spend democrats to find a way to tack on additional taxes to maintain the poverty required for them to be in power.
@@gregpeterman1102 maybe then we can move into a post-scarcity, post-capitalist world! With NO taxes! No money, No currency!
Kind of like a Star Trek world, where businesses are hobbies, instead of profit driven, like Sisko’s Restaurant! Cook all day in the kitchen, for ONLY a smile from a customer.
@@MeNoOther you are talking rainbow colored unicorns now.
Get batteries and use your own power screw the grid.
You can not be off the grid in Florida thanks to FPL’s influence
@@swickatine13 all you have to do is not pay the electric bill and you are off grid.
@@gregpeterman1102 then they put lein on your property and destroy your credit score
@@swickatine13 YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG. YOU CAN DISSCONNECT FROM THE GRID. DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
@@swickatine13 YOUR ABSOLUTELY WRONG TOO.
Electric company's will loose out of the profit. That's what they are concerned about. Sickening that being more energy dependent and helping pollution, big business and government stands in people way all the while saying we need to be the opposite. Dumb.
Who is in charge of this mess? Oh. I get it now.
The public rooftop owners and PV installer special interests.
Do this. It helps the environment.
Wait, it's costing us revenue.
You will be absorbed.
Utility solar is five times cheaper, more reliable, using less resources than rooftop. So, doing rooftop and making the utility pay is not so good for the environment. Good for the multi million $ residential PV installer industry.
@@Nill757 :
Amazing technology is every day now. Efficient appliances, home systems following you through the house turning off unoccupied spaces. If there is just a mass die off of humans, without the chaos of a fall, those left will have an amazing future. Robots will do almost anything. Less people means more for the rest. Or global failure.
@@TahoeJones “Amazing …more for the rest”
It’s people that make amazing things, though we have so many problems. Indeed, I’m an engineer and one of the makers. You’re a more-for-me taker.
@@Nill757 :
Wow. Try a grammar class dude.
@@TahoeJonesSorry, no amazing things for you, dude.
FPL donates money to politicians in Florida. Next thing you know, FPL gets 50% reduction in their costs! Go figure?
What is FPL?
@@gregpeterman1102 Florida Power and Light. Aka the utility composites
Well who else can you blame but yourselves you voted them in office
What wrong with I give you 100kw and you give me back 100kw
I'm glad to hear DeSantis vetoed the bill but i'm sure they'll try again. Great deal for the Electric company when you're forced to sell to them the power you produce at 50 cents on the dollar and forced to buy it back from them at full price. A bill like that should have never made it as far as it did in the first place.
"I don't understand why they're doing that" The republican government in Florida works for corporations who line their pockets, not the people.
democrats want rate payers to subsidy those net metering......simple proven fact as opposed to proven lie spewed by emmett
Wrong ! You be talking about Democrats !
BOTH parties are in the pockets of corporations
the GQP sucks hopefully with the help of the new yorkers and californians moving here we can dump these horrible politicians LIKE DEATHSANTIS and his gang of pedophiles like matt gaetz
@@smckay6438Ron Desantis definitely works Soley for the utility companies
Isn't that what government wants, clean energy and help climate change?
If government goes against people who have solar, is it not a contradiction.
It's companies are greedy, communities should have and maintain own grid with out monopoly companies who have gained off of people.
Companies should not be able to add surcharges that are milking and hurting the poor and middle class.
Something must change..
Power back to the communities
Desantis VETO it which is good
The reason: power companies have lobbyists
The eternal electric bill is going the same way as the land line telephone, it will soon be a thing of the past.
If that were true it should be easy to point out large numbers of single family homes (not shacks), schools, hospitals that have gone off grid, no utility wire on the side of the building, and no fossil fuel generator hiding behind the curtain.
The reason these mythical buildings are not pointed out is because they don’t exist. There are many people that like to pretend they don’t need the grid because they have some highly subsidized PV on the roof, which they never clean, which costs 5x more than utility solar, and that somebody else should be paying for that big fat utility wire which is still there, supplying power 24/7, night day winter summer.
Nobody subsidized cell phones and the cell network. It was actually cheaper than maintenance of the landline utility, which is why it spread rapidly through even the poor parts of the world where no subsidy could be offered. Roof top solar is not cheaper than the utility version, not even close. And, cell service works all the time 24/7, unlike rooftop solar.
@@Nill757 You obviously do not know what you are talking about, since LiFePO4 batteries came out, it's a new ball game. Maybe you need to look at the latest retirement trends where thousands of people are relying only on solar to power their tiny homes and recreational vehicles. Nobody is buying gasoline generators anymore. Go to Quartzite Arizona and ride around the dessert, you will be surprised at the thousands who are living rent free with no utility bills. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "roof top solar is not cheaper than the utility version" heck, it's practically FREE, and no moving parts to wear out or break down. People who are still paying utility bills are living in the past.
@@gregpeterman1102 “ride around the desert…” to see the “new retirement trend”. Lol.
People been living out of RVs and trailers and old boats and woods shacks for generations w a couple PV panels and a propane stove. Yeah you can live that way, some can live in a hut or a cave, but it’s no new wave of anything, surely can not run hospital/school/factory/family home that way, and gas for the RV/boat running the generator (every RV has one) is not free, propane is not free,running clothes to the laundry mat is not free. When gasoline hits $8 or so, that’ll be the end RV America.
It use to be people living independent like that just went about their business, now some think they’re saving the world. Lol.
Any reputable source will show the price of rooftop solar vs utility solar (not the same as a utility bill, the price for 24/7) ie Lazard, IEA. Utility buys panels by the 100 thousand, points them due south, not which ever way the old roof is pointed, uses single axis tracking of the sun, insures no shading anywhere, uses most efficient inverters, cleans them regularly. Rooftop typically does none of this, wasting resources and lifetime of the panels. Of course rooftop is far more expensive per kWh.
You want to stop this rise in cost? Change the buyback to wholesale prices not retail. They already buy it cheaper from the provider of the power than they do from the end user the home owner.
Why these people are doing solar coops. They’re buying at wholesale prices rather than retail to get better deals. It’s an obvious thing and for adults and consumers to not know this is ridiculous.
Hell if anyone was smart, they’d contact the power company themselves and arrange a wholesale price on their own.
BS... because even if I buy a battery that stores all of my additional power and I then use that power at night, thus essentially making me energy independent for about 7 months out of the year, the electric companies still want me to pay them about 100 dollars per month in their new taxes.
@@reid1boys the "workaround" to avoid that is simply not paying your power bill. Easy.
Lol and most homeowners still gawk at you like it's a scam. The real scam is having zero choice in where your power comes from, and being forced into every changing rates by the utilities.
This isn't anything new. Nice try spinning this politically. It's still very viable to go solar, but the net metering monthly connect fee should've changed to zero. Folks are doing the grid a favor being connected to it. It adds stability. Also, over time solar is still cheaper than not. Would've been nice to see where the state gets its energy from. Here in MN its less than 5%. Then you'll see the true impact of the bill.
If they kill net metering, who the hell would buy solar if it takes 20 years to get your investment back? The vast majority of Americans wont stay in a house for 20 years. Lets say you put up 30k for solar and you live in the house for 8 more years.... you didnt come close to even breaking even, meaning you spent more for your solar power than it would have been to just buy from the grid, which is exactly what the electric companies want as they know damn well people are going to say no thank you to buying solar if this garbage in Ca is passed....... just like they intended.
Not a word you stated is fact.
1) Solar is only cheaper when government arbitrarily raises energy rates. It should always be cheaper to buy in bulk. Its not because government keeps adding costs that have zero to do with energy. If you should be able to buy energy at seven cents per kilowatt hour, but government charges you 20, its arbitrary to be that high and really just a tax.
2) Solar is subsidized. Meaning solar companies get tax dollars. If a panel costs $500, then the company gets $250 in subsidies, it can be sold for a profit for anything over $250. However, those subsidies were paid in taxes. Its worse when those subsidies aren't just at the company level, they extend to the buyer (I.e. the solar tax "credit" which is now 30%). You can hide that high cost when only a few use it, not when it expands to everyone.
3) Most people are getting 25 year loans. The math "may" make sense lowering the monthly payment over twenty five years. If you actually knew how many systems have failed in less than 5, let alone 10, 15, or 20 or more years, you should realize most people pay the money up front and a large percentage get screwed. Their system fails. The math falls apart. LG already quit making solar panels (they were the 2nd largest supplier in the US).
4) Net metering has always been a way to con people into long-term math. Your government, as usual, never meant for you to have low costs. They got people to buy expensive solar on fuzzy math, and are already reneging on their promises.
This about extracting as much money from you as possible.
@@trevorwesterdahl6245 the givt isn't raising rates as the govt doesn't provide power. Pg&e is a publicly traded private business. There is a reason subsidies are given... the govt pushed the technology and needed it to make financial sense to early adopters. Panels are no different than any other technology. When microwaves first came out as with tvs, they cost a fortune. It's that still true today?
Imagine creating your own energy that is not affected by inflation or oil prices that
helping the planet and saving money for the people....
Imagine? I'm doing it.
Nope, not going to be able to sell back at full rate, someone full of bull chitt! especially WFP ele co op!
Corporate greed !
Gov.Desantis vetoed it yay
All because they want the money
The rich monopoly want to have their gold hot tubs and golden jacuzzis and private island. God forbid they have to get an Asian butler instead of their favorite black butler.
Net metering...the best way to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich.
Most solar people say "our bill is now only $20 a month, and we used to pay $200" what they dont tell you that on top of the new $20 a month they are now paying $200 for the solar panels. All they are doing is switching who provides power and sometimes actually pay more per month.
You are partially correct. You do have to pay for the solar panels but once they are paid off your bill will be $20 a month. It just like buying a car; once your note is paid off the car is yours.
except that 200 a month goes away after about 7 years.... then in 7 years that 200 a month is about 270 a month to the electric company (with no panels) and then for the next 13 plus years you pay the minimum connect fee. I dont care who does or doesnt get solar, but stop trying to make it like solar owners arent coming out ahead.... ell, until the electric companies get their way and tax the hell out of us.
@@reid1boys A solar panel that cost 200 a month does not go away in 7 years. A $200 a month panel system will go away in 20 years. Not sure where you are getting your math from.
And by the time you pay it off those panels may have to be replaced so you will have to start over again and buy new panels. Nothing is made to last forever.
Hmm interesting. Have you ever looked up the cost of going solar and what the monthly payments would be for it ? I have and depending on the solar panels I chose the total cost for me would be around 20k total costing "O" about $100.00 a month after a 20% deposit and that is for a full system total power off grid.
@@diegolara4202 you ever buy a car? If you buy a car for 15k and finance it for 7 years, that is 84 months. that is 178 bucks per month. add in interest and lets say it is ROUGHLY 200 per month. Then your system is paid off and you only pay the connect fee. You are nuts if you dont think you are coming out ahead. Only in my case, my system was 34k, $23,400 after 30% federal tax credit. I am currently on year 6 of my system,. I have about 1 year before my electricity is 100% free.
Hearing People whine about $150 a month for electricity is hilarious. In CA even a tiny house easily spends $200 a month
thats not true. Prices very widely in ca depending on where you live.
I've never paid over $65 a month average.