I always roleplay as a Dunmer who immigrated to Windhelm (via mods ofc). Granted it’s a bit hard considering you can’t do much to improve ethnic relations or the quality of life for Dunmer and Argonians in Windhelm/Skyrim (and you also cannot kill that abhorrent racist nord that harasses people in Grey Quarter) but I digress. Love your videos man, they are well throughout and put together!
I made an ex bandit khajiit from Skyrim who when trying to migrate his clan of brigands to cyrodil was ambushed by a platoon of soldiers. Betrayed by one of his own via information leak he was captured and brought to the imperial city. After a few years of prisoner life he started to turn a new leaf given lots of time to reflect on his actions and who he is. He took up an oath of non-lethal violence. (Hand-to-hand) Then eventually he was dragged out once more by the imperials. First by carriage, and now by boat, to the east, to Morrowind.
My first Morrowind character was a Dunmer orphan raised by Imperial farmers living in a rural area near Chorrol who ended up getting framed for a murder on a trip to the Imperial City after the death of his stepparents. I also felt really satisifed with my last Oblivion character's backstory even though it was way simpler. Just a poor Argonian man (probably like 19 y/o) from the Waterfront District imprisoned due to not being a very good thief. It's hard for me to ever really get into roleplaying in Skyrim because of how much it forces on you with both the story and quests I don't want to accept or have no other options to complete. It's just frustrating and obviously built with completionism in mind unlike the previous games.
I've got this Orc Artificer/Archeologist character I've run in DnD and Skyrim whose name changes frequently but his story and traits remain mostly the same. An expert on ancient technologies (specifically dwemer) and magical enchantments, he's adept with a hammer and shield, proficient in crossbows, and even dabbles in spellcasting. He makes his own Dwemer equipment out of scrap and enchants them himself (he never uses precious Dwemer artifacts found in ruins -- those belong in museums.) I sort of jokingly refer to him as an "experimental archeologist," using ancient techniques out in the field to test how Dwemer warriors fought. I've also got some mods that let me "hack" automatons.
This reminds me of a character I made once in Morrowind who branded himself as an incredible magician. The gimmick was that he had 0 magicka and it was actually all enchanted items, potions, and scrolls. A magical con man. It was a fun character. I should revisit it :)
One of my biggest issues with Bethesda's design direction is not letting the player make mistakes or be committed to something. If I make a high elf mage I can immediately pivot to being a heavy armour warrior, then a stealth archer. I can join every faction and be the leader with no real effort or even skill in what they specialise in. I can not say no to a quest, essential npcs are everywhere and even the rewards I got for most things feel meaningless when I will just craft something significantly better.
It's a real shame that they're so afraid of allowing the player to miss out on something during a single playthrough. It's like they don't even understand the benefits of multiple characters.
Amen to all of that bru. You can only really roleplay via mods or headcanon ("my character is a blacksmith that doesn't know Alchemy or Enchanting", etc). About the last one, I fondly remember the GAULDUR AMULET, that supposedly made you the most powerful mage on Tamriel... and is significantly worse than anything double-enchanted by you.
personally thats my favourite thing about elder scroll series (except arena) not being bound by class and the faction thing really applies only to skyrim, in daggerfall factions were a huge grind, meanwhile in morrowind it required some skill to NOT be expelled from one of guilds when doing their quests (fighters and thieves, easy to get expelled from thieves)
I have been so torn about this for years because I have had plenty of moments where I almost quit a game due to irreversible decisions that either ruin my RP character or completely cut out a section I was really looking forward to. A lot of the time if it’s a longer game odds are I might not get the time to go back and do another play-through so it’s just something I won’t experience. On the other hand I do completely get that’s it is super goofy and hard to explain RP wise why our version of the DB is allowed to join the imperial army after taking out their emperor (etc.) I think ultimately I’m okay with having RPG’s without hard locks or cutting people out of content but my free time is limited so that might paint my final thoughts on that
This is a fair argument, and I totally get it. I guess I just don't care about finishing the main quest on every character in TES? My goal going in is typically to explore a character mechanically, with some roleplaying for flavor. I create new characters very often, just to try new things.
@@Takarias Try Skyrim Unbound. You can set your character to non-dragonborn and the main quest won't start. You can also make it so you can't learn shouts if you want to.
It's more that you have to *work* to avoid the main quest. Side quests in Skyrim don't really send you to places where you'll pick up other side quests - they send you to a dungeon that you fast travel back from. Small adventures that you can't get lost in.
I think that’s how it was for most people. Very first playthrough, there was a lot going on in that scene and most people just ran through the first door they saw. You didn’t really realize there was a choice until the second play through
Did you know if you don't go into either door fast enough, Alduin comes off of the roof and eats you 😂 I cackled the first time I let it happen and thought about treating it like a nuzlocke and just letting that be the end of that character 😂
on a more serious note, one of my major gripes with skyrim has always been the fact that it's virtually impossible to roleplay as an intelligent, well-informed character. you can't feel like you're part of the setting or like you know anything about it, you're always an ignorant outsider. nothing hurts quite as bad as talking to wylandriah and being genuinely interested in applied harmonics, but your only dialogue options are "wow i understand nothing" and "uhhh yeah totally! i know all about that haha! [LYING]". i understand that this was done for exposition reasons- if a new player had the option to click on "Yeah I already know all that, proceed" every time maybe they'd never learn any lore whatsoever- but it gets tiring to be constantly railroaded into the dumb adventurer/greedy treasurehunter archetype in dialogue. i never got that sense in morrowind because there's no real player dialogue anyway, just topics, so you can imagine your character saying "Saltrice? I've never heard of that. What on Nirn is that?" or you can imagine them saying "Ah, the beloved agricultural staple! What else can you tell me about saltrice cultivation?" or whatever you'd like. they're less responses and more open-ended prompting. (also i LOVE how your intelligence stat gets you more insight in the haj-ei quest, i wish there was more of that!) lore-wise part of this could be chalked up to the nature of The Prisoner, i get that, but ehhh. if i'm the archmage of winterhold, let me know stuff about magic damn it. if i've read books, let there be a "i've heard of the daedric princes" option instead of forcing my character to be completely clueless 🥲 (ALSO thank you for acknowledging how weird siding with the empire is. first time i saw people saying they "always pick hadvar", i was a bit baffled. the guy working for the people who just tried to cut your head off for no reason??)
Seeing that long list of darkened topics is definitely a visual representation of your character's accumulated knowledge. I will occasionally try to roleplaying my side of Morrowind conversations, kind of a puzzle of trying to fit in a phrase that sounds at least somewhat natural. I did not notice until recently how the Morrowind system lets me define my character's voice in a way later Bethesda games do not. *Especially* Fallout 4, but even the others define my voice by the tone of the voice acting.
@@Takarias There is also another Trend in RPGS. The Choice you make in dialogue gets obfuscated in newer games. (No Neccesarrily bethesta games) Meaning: In Older games your character would exactly say what you have choosen. In newer games you chose an option thiinking its A but the caracter says something totally different. Thats really an annoying thing.
@@Fluxikatoryeah absolutely hate that. You choose something benign like "let the prisoner go" and you say something along the lines of "yeah run away you filthy scum...men shoot them all!" Like I dialed it up a bit but seriously half the time I'm going for a neutral response to a situation I technically have no say in or care for technically and the game finds a way to either make me whiny or a jerk about it.
Nelacar: Tell me, what do you know about soul gems. Player with 100 enchanting and every perk: They're for enchanting, right? this one specifically has always bothered me
I think my biggest problem with the character's distinct lack of any kind of knowledge in Skyrim compared to something like Morrowind (aside from, as you mentioned, Morrowind having topics that allow you to RP why/how your character is saying things instead of designated responses) is that while some of it is absolutely plausible, some of it is just ridiculous for any character not to know. For instance, in Morrowind the majority of the story and sidequests all revolve around Vvardenfell, or expand slightly beyond that into Morrowind proper and Solstheim, and your character is explicitly an outsider to the region. Something specific enough that it justifies why you might not know much (if anything) about the region, but broad enough that it still provides a lot of room for roleplaying where your character comes from. It makes sense that someone from Hammerfell or Cyrodiil wouldn't know much (if anything) about the Tribunal aside from maybe knowing that it's some kind of church that worships three local kings who haven't even been very active in their own country for a few decades now. There are similar things like that in Skyrim, of course. It makes sense that someone from outside of Skyrim might not know who the Companions are, or what's up with the College of Winterhold. But it feels really silly when your character is asking, let's say for example, "Who are the Aldmeri Dominion/Thalmor?" Local guilds are one thing, but for your character to somehow be completely oblivious to the existence of a nation that has had a massive impact on the political, military, religious, and cultural landscape of the entirety of Tamriel within roughly the last 25-30 years?
I can't even do the civil war quest without becoming dragonborn. Balgruf will not talk to you until the dragon is dead. Which means I have run up to bleak falls, get the golden claw, spin the each dial twice to get the stone and bug out. At that point I'm not a regular soldier anymore. Role playing in a role playing game is essential for role play. Multiple play throughs with different paths is essential. We don't need to see the whole game in one run like Todd thinks.
That doesnt make sense. Its basically just you have to be dragonborn like how geralt has to be geralt or dragonage has to do very specific things, etc. You may have a correct criticism in head that expresses your issues but comment misses mark.
@@Ay-xq7mj A lot of people actually don't like having to be The Chosen One. They actually just want to start as "just some guy", pick their own course and work their way up.
@@Ay-xq7mjI think the criticism is the order of events. Like, you can join the war as a regular soldier, but you can’t complete it until you’ve progressed through the main story enough that you become the dragonborn. At that point, you’re the chosen one with bigger and better things to do, you’re not a random soldier anymore. The intro sets up the civil war to be one of the first things you should care about, making you pick sides immediately, suggesting that you visit your respective leaders, but then you can’t actually progress through it until you’ve become named the Dragonborn. I can see how that might make roleplaying more difficult. It’s just another example of how Skyrim tries to funnel you down paths and box you in
Agreed! I find it's much more interesting for the player to have mechanical limitations, since that forces the player to come up with creative solutions for problems that arise.
You'll have Stealth, Melee, and Mage skill trees, and that's it. No weapon type skills, everything is identical in DPS, and you begin every faction questline as its leader. /s
I actually find in Morrowind and Oblivion you are the Superman style character. Because of how leveling works, you need to get enough skills up before a level to get 3x the character growth from leveling. If you get too many or little you waste it. You'll have access to everything because the leveling system outright rewards it. You can and should be omnipath.
Sure, if you metagame you can become incredibly powerful. If you don't, you grow into a character that is very powerful in specific areas, and you never lose needing to find creative solutions. Oblivion is a little different because the level scaling is wonky.
i love joining the thieves guild and being forced to become the worshipper of a god and having 0 option to side with mercer, y'know, the guy doing what every thief would. Thank you bethesda very cool
I can understand not being able to side with mercer on account of mercer probably doesn't want to side with you, but being forced to sell your soul to a daedric prince for questionably okay armor and 3 abilities you can only have 1 of, 2 of which are mediocre and the last one is okay at best.
You know the worst thing about the civil war premise? You can't tell that there is a war going on most of the time. You don't see battlefields, you don't see destroyed areas, you don't even get to see any skirmishes between Stormcloaks and Legionnaires. The only time you even hear/see the war is from NPCs, and the civil war questline itself. And even during the questline, battles only happen when you make them happen. The latter leading into a whole other issue I have with Skyrim and Bethesda games in general. And let's not even mention how short and underwhelming the civil war questline is; you could easily complete it in less than 30 minutes or 2 in-game days.
The worst thing is that they said they cut half the civil war content because they were rushing to release when they did, but then never reintroduced any of that content in the 50,000 re-releases and remasters they did.
Fun fact, it's still possible to complete the main quest of Daggerfall even if you miss the initial timer. It's similar to Morrowind where you can defeat Dagoth Ur if you know already where you're supposed to go.
@@scivoid Y'know, my first draft alluded to this with slightly different wording, but I decided to change it to avoid getting bogged down in explaining how Daggerfall works. :P
There's another possibility. That Ulfric and his guard were indeed captured at Darkwater, and they were carted to the border pass as they might have been on their way to the Imperial Capitol. But the pass was clogged with drifts, they captured the Dragonborn crossing into Skyrim without documentation. This would be punishable even if the dragonborn is a Nord. Was he a Nord born somewhere else in the empire? Who knows. One thing makes me wonder; the dungeon under Helgen has a Dragonborn book in the torture chamber. They were interrogating folks, with the book right there (perhaps insinuating they were looking for the dragonborn?) The Thalmor know the dragons and their potential meaning. Good, thoughtful video Tarkarias, very enjoyable.
All the helgen prisoners being suspected dragonborns could have been an interesting example of imperial scheming. And unlike the previous two entries, the player and co would be freed before their imperial captors could conscript them.
I'm afraid skyrim has had an affect on my ability to play rpgs. I have a habit of trying to play a jack of all trades, that likely stems from being able to do anything and everything build wise in skyrim.
@Takarias It always starts something along the lines of "Oh, I'll be a knight, but wait I need a source of in combat healing, and then there's all these locked doors..." Next thing I know I've essentially taken a level in everything.
@@BoneWalker Locks and lock picking are a predicament, for sure. Morrowind solved this by having the security skill, but also making spells and scrolls reasonable alternatives. Morrowind is like that in general: There's usually a straight skill, a spell, a potion, and/or a scroll for any given action, so all characters have access to all effects, it just differs what form that access takes.
I did this in Morrowind, too. But my preferred style actually *is* a curiosity and exploration driven figure who will find ways to get access to everything everywhere, and especially knownledge. In another world I'd be a Ravenclaw with a decided Slytherin attitude to procurement. Or maybe a hybrid. In yet another world, Azeroth, I was one of those hated true hybrid druids. I'd train new tanks and healers by joining as midrange dps who can instantly shift to tank or healer job if either trainee slips up. With my usual high end crowd we'd handle high end content with me fluidly shifting between offtank, control and healing jobs. We did DiM in rare gear level while raiding guilds complained that even in epic gear it was too difficult. Old person rant over. I need my brown gold meds.
@@Takarias Daggerfall also handled locked doors in a pretty good way. Lacking a spell or lockpicking skill, you could just hit the door and it would check against your weapon skill to break the lock open
I'm surprised that no one ever talks about lockpicking and how it breaks roleplay. In both Oblivion and Skyrim you can lockpick any lock regardless of level or skill, you(as in the player) just need to be good at the mini game. But if you are playing as a brawler or any kind of character that wouldn't or shouldn't be able to lockpick, you are still basically forced to or lose out on loot. Basically all dungeons have locked chest and lockpick can be found everywhere. I know unlocking spells are a thing, but it would be nice if you could bash them open too so you didn't have to somehow be the best locksmith barbarian.
No chests, but Daggerfall allows you to attack doors and bust them open that way. I think the calculation might take strength into account? The downside is that you can only attempt to pick a lock once, but you can attack the door as many times as you like, so lockpicking is ultimately totally irrelevant. I do wish they'd revisit the idea, though.
@@Snockooz I have done several playthroughs where my character can't pick locks. There is plenty of loot in the game, you aren't missing much. Did another where I couldn't loot bodies, that was hard to stick to. Did one where I couldn't craft, buy, store or sell anything. Was limited to what I found and could carry. That one was fun, I might do it again.
@@matthews7335 I find it's often enough just to limit yourself to one crafting system. Only enchanting, smithing, or potions. (Or whatever else if I'm missing one via brain fart.)
I did that play through the first time i played cos crafting and enchanting were boring and so was storing extra gear. Turns out I'm too impatient for RPGs so I turned it into an action game lol
Honestly, Im convinced that the original plan was to have the player funneled down the Stormcloak side of the civil war without an Imperial option. There are supposedly cut voice lines with Ulfric escaping Helgan with you.
I'm of half a mind that there was originally an entirely different start to the game, and Ralof's Riverwood conversation wasn't going to be attached to it. I don't have much of anything in the way of proof, so that will just have to remain a theory.
Skyrim is the game where I started to go off Bethesda, I'd played Morrowind for what must have been thousands of hours back in the day and while I had a few issues with Oblivion I played it through multiple times so it couldn't have been that bad. Skyrim has a stunning world but to me it felt more like a theme park just as Fallout 3's world did, nothing I did made me feel like I'd made a difference and I wasn't given any reason to care about any of it. For me the problems started with the opening, no sane person would side with the guys who were about to separate you from your head and you wouldn't side with them in the war for the same reason, the Imperials are introduced to the player in a way an antagonist would be introduced.
Fallout 3 grabbed me, but I'm a bit predisposed to enjoying post-apocalypse media. I think it deserves saying that the mechanics of VATS hooked me, too: I played it on console, where the controls were so bad that VATS was the only way I could reliably hit anything. It turned the game into a cover-based pseudo-turn based shooter, and I found that pretty interesting.
@@Takarias I think the exploration is where the game really shined, for me the world felt like a theme park but one worth exploring because there was so much cool stuff to find that those following the main quest marker would miss. Many would have missed out on that exploration, the main quest all took place on the bottom third of the map with the exception of Raven Rock but even then you're teleported to it and would no doubt fast travel back, that leaves two thirds of the map full of things to see but no reason to go there, it's poor design, contrast that to games like Morrowind, Oblivion and New Vegas where the player is sent to places all around the world. I think those who didn't like Fallout 3 should give it another try, only this time when they leave Vault 101 they should ignore the main story and just head north, it's much a better experience.
@@JimUKI remember my time in FO3 as a good time. But I can't really get back into it thanks to how specific the skill points are. It feels like I need to have most of my skills planned ahead at least on draft level. Which reminds me that back then I did just that. Which in turn reminds me that I had a very rough time in Morrowind until I explicitly designed my class choice to help me control my level progress. This is one of the good things about Skyrim. You are less likely to screw your high level self over through just smelling the flowers gameplay.
Skyrim‘s biggest claim to fame is its impact on the modding community. Morrowind and oblivion did have mods but Skyrim took that to a whole different level. I know this video was just about the vanilla games So I’m kind of cheating, but the possibilities are endless.
I would actually say that the intro itself is pretty good for roleplaying in the sense that as long as you can find a reason for you pg to be close to the border on that specific day (ralof says crossing the border but maybe the guards just find you close and thought you were a rebel scout) ,then the intro works for you, yes it is very long, but you can be an unlucky farmer that happened to be visiting someone or delivering a letter etc. who hides during the whole escape behind Harvar or Ralof, or you could be a necromancer that was looking for ingredients when captured ( with some exceptions, for example your pg can’t already be a rebel stormcloack unless you ignore the fact they don’t know you) the biggest problem about rp’ing in skyrim, as others said in the comments, lies within some mechanics in the game itself, like quests, leveling system etc.
One of my head cannons i often use is "my guy was trying to find ulfric to join the stormcloaks" and thats how i got caught. You could say you were trying to find ulfric to end the war if you want to go imperial. And yeah its always bothered me how you can join every faction, be a companion with only spells or join the mages never casting a single spell. Or destroy the thieves guild like you can dark brotherhood. Even worse is you have to join the thieves guild and get pretty far into it just so you can get a shout.
One thing, you are already rewriting the game to fit your headcanon there. Shouldn't be necessary to be "blank". Of course a video game will have limitations. Oblivion and Morrowind is purely "you are a prisoner", that's it, no crime, no motivation, nothing, and skyrim could've done the same. You were just captured alongside. No mention od crossing the border, no motivation. That's the major difference
@SioxerNikita i completely agree. Noble six from the halo series is a great example too. They give you a little background to work with and ppl loved it. Its still especially your character
@SioxerNikita i was just talking about the character of noble six. Noble six is a near blank slate for you the player design. Just like nate and nora in fallout 4 and skyrim, they are all still your characters to build off of.
I think the introduction to the civil war is great. You start with the typical 'rebels must be the good guys' vibe but there are hints that there is more to it. Ralov being one, Tulius' first reaction to the dragon being to protect the civilians instead of securing the prisoners another. The fact that the fanbase is so divided on which the correct choice is, is a testament to great Bethesda writing, which is not a phrase I thought I would ever say.
I've always felt that Bethesda is good at writing a world, where Obsidian is good at writing a story. The closest we've seen to an all-star collaboration was New Vegas. It would have been incredible to have a full collab between those teams.
ill give it to you that Tulius being more concerned about the civilians shows he's a decent guy but hearing him two minutes later mid dragon attack saying "we're leaving" like apparently his plan was to have the civilians hide and then... run away? and its not like Ulfric and the storm cloaks would've been any use in the fight they're unarmed at this point their only option was a mad dash away from the dudes about to behead them
The whole delima with Parthanaax alone was a big split. Even if you modded it where you can tell Delphen off and make her play nice would been a good flex in the base game. The choice between who is right and wrong is a tough one.
20:42 - One thing about this part of Hadvar's line that annoys me? If you pick an Argonian, he asks about your origins with a bad line take. "Are you a relative of one of the Riften dock workers, Argonian?" Where that comma is, it sounds like he stopped the sentence early with a ?, and then says 'Argonian?' as though he's responding to someone who told him what race someone is and he was surprised by the answer. On the positive side, the Helgen Opening mod, which changes how the opening plays and changes some VAs, fixes that bad line read. Once again, Bethesda's work being done by modders.
one of the worst production issues bethesda has (a problem beginning with oblivion and somehow still a recurring problem even today!) is inadequate vocal direction. even now a large amount of 'minor conversation' dialogue lines are handed to the voice actors completely out of order, which makes it nearly impossible for them to create a natural flow between sentences. for oblivion in particular, every single dialogue line was recorded in *alphabetical order* and usually without any context provided; this created the constant issues where a character's voice not only has the wrong tone but a completely different accent between lines. it's something that they still haven't fully joined industry standard practice on, seemingly because directing and engaging with the rank-and-file actors outside of the marquee hires like patrick stewart and liam neeson is simply not a production priority
Although Morrowind is my favorite TES, and probably one of my favorite games, Skyrim was my first elder Scrolls and I love the series as a role (currently starting a daggerfall unity playthrough). And I find it very funny, as you said, that they presented us with the "faction" choices in the start of the game, like, there's absolutely no reason to go with the people who just tried to murder you if you are thinking of RP sake. Also I believe that the civil war would do a great video by it self, I really don't like the way it leaves the world, but it's one of the quests that the players action have impact on. Great video as always.
One of very few quests, unfortunately. I understand they want to avoid another Dragon Break situation, but they've gone too far in locking down the player's ability to have an impact. Hope you enjoy Daggerfall - it's a *very* different game, but it's a super interesting entry to the franchise.
@@Takarias Yeah i agree, hope on the next TES (I know I'm being to optmistic) we'll have better impact. Until now i'm having a great time with daggerfall! Unity has made it a lot more acessible, and I will be forever grateful to their work.
I do have one issue with your analysis. The Stormcloaks being ambushed in Darkwater Crossing and ending up where they are at the start of the game is not illogical. Based on my memory, Darkwater Crossing is in the southern part of Eastmach, a hold controlled by the Stormcloaks. Going north from there would be to face constant ambush from Stormcloaks, especially if you're carrying their dear leader. West isn't much better, as there is a major stronghold manned by bandits along the road to Whiterun. So it's not illogical to choose the southern route, skirting the western edge of Riften Hold through Ivarstead, a rather unassuming town, and going up into the mountains toward Helgen. That would be the route of least resistance. But more importantly, the road you are going down during that intro sequence is the road that passes by an Imperial fort, Newstead or something like that, I forget the name. I believe there is a Stormcloak mission to attack that fort and rid it of the Imperials at one point. So one might expect the Imperials to take prisoners, especially high-profile prisoners on a path that isn't well-trodden and might be more difficult but that leads to a major imperial fortification. There they would naturally hold the prisoners for a time. Tullius probably wasn't there and they would have waited for him to arrive before moving on to Helgen. Furthermore, your character's time of capture is not specified, and could have been joined with the Stormcloak prisoners at the fort some time after their capture and arrival, which doesn't require your character to have been in a coma in order to wake up in the cart when they do.
@@valentinchappa6702 I did, though. Coming north from the Pale Pass still requires that Tullius is unaware of the Pale Pass's closure due to avalanche. Regarding Fort Neugrad, it is inhabited by bandits at the start of the game. It passes into Imperial or Stormcloak control based on your actions in the civil war.
@Takarias every fort is inhabited by bandits before the Civil War quest that uses it. That's most likely a gameplay conceit. In Canon, it makes no sense for so many bandit forts to exist, especially during wartime. We can assume, narratively, that the respective armies hold the forts the entire time.
@@Takarias My analysis was primarily based on how the Civil War questline sets things up. From what I remember, they don't acknowledge prior bandit occupation for those forts, and the maps with the red and blue flags on them have it marked with a blue flag even before you join the war. I tend to agree with aetherkid that it's more of a gameplay conceit for those who might not do the civil war stuff so they still can have content in those forts. That being said, there is no denying that they are occupied by bandits initially in the game, so if you go strictly by that my explanation wouldn't work. However, I think they set that scene up with an Imperial Neugrad in mind, and if you don't visit the fort before becoming part of the Civil War you'd never know and the game will not acknowledge that it was ever occupied by bandits.
Has anyone ever noticed that during the opening, just after you've made your character, when the dragon is not seen but is heard. The headsman seems to be deaf? 🤔😲 😅🤣😂
You aren't necessairily the choosen one in Morrowind, or well er..at least the choosen one by pure chance. There is a lot of dialogue that leaves it to the player to decide if you're really the prophesized hero, or just some random dude who was at the right place at the right time.
I love that this ambiguity exists, I just didn't think that was a rabbit hole I should get lost in during a Skyrim video. I would argue that, by successfully fulfilling the prophecy, you *become* the Nerevarine, even if you were not at the start of the game.
@@Takarias That's a valid way to look at it too ofc, but there is specific dialogue at multiple points in the main quest, that let's players who reject the 'phrophesized hero notion', roleplay as just some insanely lucky random dude. Ofc players who want to be the choosen one can easily roleplay that too.
Fantastic video. Summed up quite a few of my own thoughts. I also wanted to say that seeing a 10 year old video listed on your channel sincerely gave me hope and inspired me. I've bounced the idea around in my head forever of making videos, but I also used to have a very "this has to be successful or it's a waste of time" type of mindset drilled into me, and making videos like this one should be done simply out of wanting to do it, and when I want to do it at that. Definitely subbing, and thank you again 🫶 I know it may seem small but that was a boost of motivation I needed
Go do it. For real. I stagnated and hesitated for years as well. My first Morrowind video was the product of me finally saying, "You know what? I don't care. I'm going to ramble about something, clean that up into a script, record it with decent audio quality, slap some gameplay under it, and just put it out there." I didn't focus on fancy editing (just on making it look clean and not like, janky), I didn't worry about how it would be received... I just put my authentic, nerdy, pedantic, on-the-spectrum self out there because I wanted to. So, go do it. Forget about trying to hit success right from the word go and just put content you're proud of into the world. There is, literally, nothing you can lose. I'm not saying you'll strike gold doing it, but if you're not doing it for the artistic expression of it... you won't enjoy doing it, and viewers can smell that from a mile away. Good luck, have fun, and thanks for the sub. :)
And that's why Alternate Start exists as a mod, but it only works bc it's for a second (or more) playthrough. As compelling and consistent the opening of Skyrim might be, it's true that practically moves you to a melee build. Great video! (And now, I'm going to watch it 😅)
Even with Alternate Start the dialogue still reminds you every so often that your character can be anyone you want, as long as you've never met anyone and no one's heard of you.
I haven't finished the main quest line in over 7 years. The first 5 years I played out every combination I could think of all the way to the end and feel no real compunction to do it again other than get the quests out of my journal and satisfy my obsessive need t o complete everything and I've reached a point where I can keep even that under control now. You only need 5 shouts to finish the game, 2 of which you don't need to use except early in the game. I haven't figured out why I love this game so much.
Taking a page or 2 out of my DnD campaigns, my character just showed up. That's it, that's all the backstory we need. The reason for this is that I can justify my lack of knowledge of the series or planning on my character's in-depth role play. For example, the ambush gave my Orc ammesia, so he is still learning about himself as the game continues. My High Elf, Pancake, is a schoaler who loves to collect books but can't read. So, in her case, she was captured on their way to Helgen. Ralof just thought she was trying to cross the border, but in actuality, she legitimately thought she was in Solitude and was confused why the Blue Palace wasn't there (she can't even read a map). Or if it's my channel mascot on my alternate account (I have yet to show her), Shenron sent her to Skyrim by accident.
@Takarias the best part about it is that the moment you release that almost 50 or 90% of Skyrim involves some sort of book or letter the Dovakiin needs to read at least once. For example, you need to read a book to learn about Red Eagle or start the Athrium Forge quest. Or how Delphine leaves a letter for you when you collect the horn. Because of this, I always have at least one follower with Pancake at all times, in case she needs to read something. Otherwise, everything is just out of instinct or coincidence.
To this day having a pop up b4 you exit helgen to remake your character would be nice every single other bethesda game to my knowledge has a moment like that would make the game so much more replayable imo
Bethesda doesn't make RPGs, and they really need to drop the act of doing so. They build open-world sandbox action-adventure games with light role-playing elements, but they don't make RPGs.
No video game is truly an RPG, if you want to be pedantic. None of any backstory you invent ever becomes part of the game. You do no really RP with NPCs, you select from a multiple choice option of dialogue.
You play the role of the Last Dragonborn, a Hero, an Unbound Prisoner. Technically speaking, it is an RPG, due to this. But, I do agree that it's lighter than other games and the actual matter of making choices is either minor or hardly consequential, with the exception of a few quest outcomes.
Still, Skyrim has more roleplay options than Fallout 4. At least you don't HAVE to be a 108th Infantry Regiment veteran, father to a disappointment son, husband of wife who's shot, owner of Codsworth, etc.
@ Yeah both Fallout 4 and Fallout 3 should have let you be anyone you want like Fallout New Vegas did. I liked Fallout 3 but it would be alot funner if I wasn't forced to look for my father Liam Neeson the entire game.
@@SuperBatSpider I agree with that. Being given a family or at least others you consider kin is fine, i've seen it done perfectly in the mod "Fallout: New California". But not when it gives me very little wiggle room to make up my character's background story on my own.
I have a friend who for years used to tell me Skyrim Sucked, and then I finally asked him what happened when he played the game. So what he did is he took Ralof's advice about splitting up and then he made his way directly to Windhelm and joined the Storm Cloaks and did the Civil War questline. And then he got to the end of the Civil War and never thought that he had beaten the game without ever fighting a dragon, or finding or starting any of the other faction questlines. I talked him into starting a new playthru and this time follow the guy he goes with the Riverwood and he found the main quest right away and then ran into all the faction quests along the way, his opinion took a complete 180 after that. The thing about main quest is that if you follow you will meet someone who can show you how to start each one of the faction quest lines along the way. And joining the College of Winterhold is pretty much a hard requirement for completing the main quest.
For your Khajiit character, I can think of a few explanations for why your character got captured solo. For a more heroic path, maybe you noticed the ambush ahead of time and rushed forward to spring it, so your charge wouldn't be caught. For a more villainous path, maybe your group was attacked by bandits and you slunk away. For a more neutral path, maybe you just got momentarily distracted at the wrong place at the wrong time, and your group left you behind. You didn't get to explain anything because an imperial mace soon met the back of your head, instant KO
15:42 In Arena you do start as a prisioner, but yes, you do have some established backstory before being a prisioner, unlike III, IV and V. Jagar Tharn throws you there for considering you a ally of the original emperor (I dont remember if it is exactly this though), and possibly a threat to his plan, but thanks to the ghost of Ria Silmane you understand the circunstances the empire is in and you escape the prison to thwart Jagar's plan.
When you’re given the first choice, you think “why would I choose the side that literally just tried to kill me?” and depending on your character race were racist to you. You want to join the Stormcloaks. Hours later you go to Windhelm to sign up only to find the storm cloaks are even more racist: certain races aren’t even allowed in the city, and some in the city are forced to live in a slum area. The “Grey quarter” name itself is racist and insensitive. It’s at that point when you have to truly make the decision what side to choose
I mostly agree. When i make a character really intended for roleplay, i feel you really need to fight the game design instead of actually going about the world. It doesn't really feel different unless you really harshly limit what you can do. Morrowind and Oblivion did this a lot better (Morrowind more than Oblivion). Sure you had to limit yourself, but the games' quests had different ways to go about something. Stealth, careful combat, archery, speech, rushing in, all different options. If there's a locked door, there's likely a key to be around, or hints to where the key could be, or in the possession of the owner, even if you're in some dungeons. The game allowed you to focus on certain skills, and "ignore" others a lot more easily. And regarding Daggerfall, sure, certain things were timed, such as going to Breanna, and delivering some things, but once you are on the actual quest you have as much time as you want to actually complete it, iirc anyway. There may be some timed dungeon quest i'm forgetting, it's been ages since i actually played through the storyline. The DOS version was all we actually had when i played through it then. :D
Isn't the point of keeping the player's capture vague so you can come up with your own story? Isn't that necessary if you're going to roleplay? In contrast to games like Fallout 3 or 4 where your backstory is much more clear, but you have less room to make it your own. Honestly, I felt the Dragonborn offered much more room for roleplaying than the previous two titles. The Dragonborn only tells me what my character is, not who they are...or were There's plenty of different sorts of Dragonborns, but the "Hero of Kvatch" is clearly a hero. You can't even pick your basic alignment, let alone your character. And the Nerevarine is Nerevar, so any character you make is rendered invalid. You're simply Nerevar. Personally, I always got the impression they were trying to paint the Stormcloaks a more sympathetic introduction to make up for...the rest of the game.
Yeah the character being a prisoner is exactly why they choose that type of start it’s so you can pretty much make whatever backstory for your character
In Skyrim, they tell you why you were captured, though, don't they? The Imperials catches you while you were trying to cross the border illegally, so if you wanna roleplay, you have to always consider why you were crossing illegally. Meanwhile, in Oblivion, you are just some prisoner and are not told why (as said in the vid, you can come up with any reason for your capture, whether it was false imprisonment or not). You only become Hero of Kvatch when you actually cleanse Kvatch of the Daedra, which you can decide not to do. In Morrowind, you are also just some prisoner and the game makes it vague as to whether you were always the Nerevarine or if completing the ritual is what made you the Nerevarine. The Nerevarine is simply a reincarnation of the Nerevar, so whoever your character is currently is entirely up to you. Have you ever played, or even read a synopsis, of those two games?
@@AeridisArt Since when do any of the provinces have border control? That's sort of one of the key points of all being apart of the same Empire. I mean hell, you cross into Morrowind (Solstheim) without any issues.
@@zeveria7206 I'd imagine there's still be checkpoints where you have to register yourself considering how the Imperials are and the current state of affairs (the civil war). The game clearly states that the Dragonborn was captured while they were crossing the border from Cyrodiil.
Hey, good video! Love Skyrim too, but always open to people's takes on negative aspects of it, even if I may no agree. Well crafted video and good delivery! Looking forward to more. Subscribed!
I like Skyrim, it makes a great survival sandbox if you mod it right. Always makes me want to play Morrowind though (which is the reason I'm playing Morrowind right now) I'm really hoping that once the OpenMW lua scripting thing happens someone can port Ashfall to OpenMW and I can live out my Ashlander hunter best life.
The beginning force you to side with Stormcloaks because they don't cut people's heads off without a trial. There are no skeletons, torture tools, torturers or dead bodies in Stormcloak dungeons, so if you are playing a moral character you can't side with the Empire.
I think Skyrims setup is fine. Comparing Skyrim and Morrowind, the roleplay origin question that you're promted to ask is "Why did my character decide to enter Skyrim?" and "Why is my character in prision?". Skyrim has the problem that it's hard to have a concrete goal to fullfill in Skyrim since the game will never recognize that goal and you can't leave when you've completed it which make reasons like "to run away from something in Cyrodiil" or "to start a new life" easier to roleplay. Morrowind provides a convenient excuse for why goals you might have had in your past life aren't relevant anymore, which is a little bit better but I ultimately don't think that this is a very large issue. One of my favorite roleplay experiences in Skyrim was playing as a scholar who wanted to study Dwemer ruins in Skyrim with the Aetherium Crown questline serving as a main quest of sorts, which would have fit just fine with Skyrims opening (even if I happened to be playing with an alternate start mod because who has the time to replay the intro after you've seen it twice?). For most characters however, it does get out of the way enough that I can just do whatever I want with my character which is the most important thing at the end of the day.
On my first couple playthroughs, I had no idea you could follow Hadvar. The game so overtly made you emotionally favor Ralof that I thought it was the only choice
The thing i hate about bethesda games is not it is holding my hand and showing everything. In fact, RPG games -especially bethesda's- needs that feature because my common sense may not be added into the game. What i hate about are lack of options and unreactive world. I always give this example: (SPOILER) after doing season unending, making the two political factions sign a truce till alduin is defeated, if you try to join them they do not acknowledge who you are. Galmar still sends you to kill that ice wraith to "prove you are capable". Brother, you begged me to favor the truce in your favor a while back, just so i can kill the literal tyrant dragon who eats the souls of the dead. How come you not acknowledge this? The other thing i have a problem about, which is lack of options, can be explained further. Most quests tend to have one ending, no matter the player actions. The Paarthurnax quest is famous for this, since there is no way to finish that quest but killing Paarthurnax. However, other quests tend to have the same issue (and i heard if you do that Paarthurnax quest early in game, you can finish it without killing him). Another example is the quests involving whiterun. When starting the game, if you ignore the main questline and for example join the stormcloaks, balgruff will simply refuse to be sieged by stormcloaks because apperantly bethesda did not want us to do the main questline with a stormcloak jarl. I have no option to play the quests in which order i want, how i want, and with which impacts i done to the world.
I’m a lurker by trade and I just have to say, I am so glad I found your channel! Keep up this good work. I look forward to your thoughts on Oblivion’s intro and maybe one for Starfield?! Regardless, you have earned a permasubscriber! Us Morrowboomers have to look out for each other 😉
I already know what you're talking about bro! I try so hard to like come up with characters I want to play as and tackle the Skyrim world but the opening and its flow is just too good you can't help but follow along until Whiterun.
27:19 It's funny to me too. As an aside the very first time I played Skyrim, when told we should split up, I actually did. And then when I started a new character was surprised at all the little dialogue and story bits that I missed out on for doing what the game asked of me. 😅
It's been mentioned before but skyrim unbound is a must for me now. I usually set my beginning in one of the port cities like Dawnstar or Solitude, a fresh off the boat immigrant trying to find a new life in a new land. It allows me to craft my character and roleplay. It also allows me to forgo the Dragonborn path entirely so my character can go their own way. Way more fun for me.
Character origins you ask! Complicated! First, at release I had XB360, so no mods. So I chose the best looking vanilla char… because I go with 3rd person, guiding my character…not being them myself. I preferred to follow a female…so a Nord woman then. When I upgraded and used mods, I prettied her up a lot, and improved the game look overall, but kept vanilla mechanics. Now the RP bit…My character Adella, I played as though at first she was just dumb pixels, but soon realised RP meant a personality ‘script’…but I extended her knowledge and learning as we went along, giving her an actual personality and way of behaving in any particular situation. Soon she felt nearly real to me, I knew how she’d want to react and tackle situations and it wasn’t always how “I” would handle it..she is more courageous than I, somewhat more ruthless also. This all took years understand, 1000’s of hours interacting and building who she is. Now, I can’t play Skyrim as anyone else….she won’t allow it😂. Play style was crucial to a meta-bond, we play almost exclusively Dead is Dead on Legendary with a small list of game toughening rules. If Adella dies on screen for any reason, we re-start with Ralof in the Keep at Level 1. Tough, but fair ok. When hundreds of hours and your character’s life are on the line you stop treating them as just a throw away toy and invest in their well being. So in short, I don’t play Adella, I play alongside her, guiding and mentoring her progress through multiple questiles with the aim of staying alive….
Railroading can work. Skyrim just pretends it isn't doing it which is the main issue. Enderal embraces railroading and ironically even though the game is more linear. Gives you way more role playing options. The main issue with Skyrim is you have Oblivion and Morrowind to compare it to. Games that give an intro then actually just throw you to the wolves and let you do whatever. Morrowind famously just flat out tells you that you aren't good enough for the main quest and to come back later. With zero guide on what to do
Me: This time I'll do some hardcore roleplaying in Skyrim! Also Me, the second combat while roleplaying gets difficult: Then again, there's nothing wrong with another Stealth Archer run!
I unironically enjoy Skyrim stealth archers lol Yeah, it's hyper easy mode, but it's still satisfying to clear rooms without being noticed by the braindead AI
The biggest handcuff to characters in Skyrim are the dragonborn parts. Many characters you can create make no sense to be dragonborn. That should be limited to certain character play styles and not just anyone who starts a game of Skyrim.
I feel you on the urgency of the main quest. Really the only place I can find to jump off the main quest if I don't want it to be my character's focus is Bleak Falls Barrow. If I never go there, then Farengar has given me a research quest that I can say I'll "get around to eventually" and there are no dragons popping up or any indication that the attack at Helgen was anything more than a fluke. After Bleak Falls Barrow, yeah, the world's ending, why aren't you doing something about that?! Or you can just install an alternate start mod I guess, but I I think your point is that you shouldn't have to mod a game to make the RP flow.
I had assumed the player character and Stormcloaks were traveling from Helgen from Fort Neugrad, where they were all imprisoned. That seems to be the route they're taking to Helgen and it's not implausible that Stormcloaks captured in Darkwater Cross would be held there. Also, crossing the border is illegal in itself and that's why the player character is imprisoned. Furthermore, the game doesn't 'force you down the dragonborn path' as you say, since you can avoid fight dragons altogether if you want to. T
With the whole border issue, it seems like some people have come to the conclusion that Ulfric was captured at Darkwater crossing, and was taken to fort Neugrad. General Tullius probably wanted to see if the pass had been cleared by now, wanting to get Ulfric executed in Cyrodiil, but seeing as the pass was still blocked, he decided to have Ulfric executed publicly in the nearest Imperial town, that being Helgen. The dragonborn would have crossed the border into Skyrim through the rocky pass, being captured by imperials and taken to fort Neugrad for reasons unknown. There would then be a mix up with the carts as Ulfric and the stormcloaks were being moved to Helge, with an extra prisoner being loaded back onto the cart, that prisoner being the Dragonborn. It seems to make the most sense of what we’re given, but it’s still probably just bad writing
I would argue in morrowind that you're the chosen one because you complete a certain set of objectives and criteria & that anyone could have been the nevarine if they matched the criteria.
I also really like the interpretation that the player becomes Nerevarine through their actions, though surely one needs to be predisposed to being able to do so
@@Takarias I mean yeah, you need to be both strong enough, smart enough & have the motivation to need or want to fufill the prophecy. We see a ton of people who failed in the game.
Something to remember is that "Mantling" retroactively changes the past, so the moment you fulfill the prophecy and Mantle the Neverine the universe rewrites itself, so you were ALWAYS the Neverine. So you were born the Neverine because the future you managed to become the Neverine.
I'm about to embark on my first playthrough of Skyrim, ever in the not too distant future. This isn't my first TES title; I played the hell out of Morrowind and its expansions back when they were new but dropped the series (and Bethesda entirely) after a long and painful slog through Fallout 3 and its nightmarish technical problems. Most people played those games on the Xbox 360 and were blissfully ignorant of the game engine's deranged coding. Playing those games on PC meant playing Russian Roulette with your system profile, as even very small things that didn't effect any other game on the market could cause Gamebryo to blow its head off in confusion and crash. I don't mean the usual CPU/GPU/RAM and their drivers, but stuff like what sound-card/chip, the presence/absence of network card or modem, and even the version of Java/Flash you had installed because the default U.I. lazily relied on a very specific version of those program suites to function, and having one that was too new would risk a fatal error every time you opened the menu. (something that fans patched after a couple of years of misery and troubleshooting into those games' releases; Bethesda didn't bother fixing any of that until they had Special/GOTY Editions out, and even then they didn't fix every major issue) TL;DR: I stopped playing Bethesda games because I had no interest in buying yet another game console, and their PC technical support was wildly inconsistent; borderline psychotic. (the meme about fans making Bethesda games great is no joke; they rely on fans for so much that their plan to taxing mods with royalties would have outright killed their business had they went through with it.) That, and the games after Morrowind were...just not that good to engage with outside of the combat, which itself was only passable, and not great. The roleplay became dumber and dumber, scenarios and character became increasingly shallow, and the writing for the main story of Fallout 3 in particular was one of the most insultingly stupid goddamned things I've seen in any form of media. ("You must kill yourself to turn on this water purifier or you're literally Satan! Now go watch one of two lazy endings despite Todd Howard promising hundreds!")
I played oblivion as a kid, skyrim on release, and morrowind only in 2021. Morrowind had become my favourite by far. Took time to get used to the outdated design but it's a much better RPG than the latter entries. Better GAME? I wouldn't say so, but a better ROLEPLAYING game, absolutely. The travel system is so much better too. Even that factors into role-playing. I'm a warrior who dislikes magic? I'm cut off from mages guild transport.
I miss spell making. Other than that, my biggest problem with skyrim oblivion and morrowind is i'm always a prisoner, so i have to plan my roleplay around why i was a prisoner. On the topic of spell making, once in morrowind, i saved up gold for a long time when gold didn't matter as much, made a spell without understanding what the sliders meant, got the tribunal dlc, tried to use my spell on the douchebag elf that attacks you, turns out i made what's basically an aoe spell, killed him, and lots of other people.
Spell making can be dangerous, for sure! Tarhiel might have something to say about that... I think they stick with the prisoner origin because it removes character agency: It makes it easier to explain why your character is in that situation. See Starfield for a great example of not being a prisoner causing issues: You *have* to explain why your character willingly signed up for a mining gig. The prisoner origin always lets you say you were framed and innocent.
I was a young, orphaned Wood Elf fleeing my adoptive Nord clan back to Valenwood after my coming-of-age ceremony - I was tasked with killing an Imperial soldier to prove my commitment to the rebellion - ended in humiliation. Instead of delivering a swift and honorable death, I managed only to shoot the poor, hapless man in the knee.
I've played through the Skyrim Intro so many times and not one single time have I ever sided with the faction that *wanted to cut off my head* a minute ago. What were the writers thinking?
Offtopic but the intro highlights one of the rules i have for playing Skyrim. I do not move during the animations of doors opening, pulling levers, etc, cuz otherwise the traps are pointless
To be honest with you i can not get into skyrim for the life of me I've tried at least 10 times with mods, without after i leave white run i feel like there's nothing much to do. I cant the story is kinda mid and it doesn't really pull me in and i cant get immersed. I really want to just play as a paladin, mage, or cleric even as a potions maker. that you can do but its not really viable( I cant only use potions in battle or to buff a teammate.) They don't have it where when you pick how you want to play like mage or warrior it doesn't give you a bump in stats On a side note i really wish there is a mod that started with a few followers that is like in a party with classes like a dnd type thing.
If you ever do want to experience Arena but don't want to have to deal with that 1st game jank there's a mod for daggerfall unity that imports arena into the game letting you play through the events of both games in the superior version of the two games
If I remember right, that mod supplants Arena's main quest into DFU, but that's ultimately just Daggerfall with some text strings swapped around. I find the mechanical differences at least as interesting as the narrative ones, so if I'm gonna play Arena, I want to play Arena. Until then, longplays and transcripts will have to suffice.
My biggest gripe is the factions to join the Thieves Guild is just a copy and paste of the Dark Brotherhood (Fallen on hard times half way through you get backstabbed and find out it's the leader of the guild who did it) And also no ranking system can literally go from newbie to head of the guild (Or arch mage) In the span of about 15 or so quests
Yeah, this is why I always use alternate start, though i do tend to do the main quest, the Dragonborn just is doing other things in Skyrim at first, rather than being a prisoner. The closest RP I've done for "Was captured with the Stormcloaks" is an Altmer hunter who was born and raised in Cyrodil who accidentally followed some prey too far north across the border without realizing it and got caught up accidentally. He was pissed at everyone, especially the Imperials for not doing their due diligence to figure out who he was, but also pretty pissed at the Stormcloaks for not vouching that he wasn't with them (and considering he's an Altmer, the headcanon I went with was the Stormcloacks, except for Ralof, were racist against him, assuming him to be some kind of Thalmor spy; so they figured if they could get an Altmer's head rolling it would be another Thalmor Spy out of commission. Ralof's friendliness is him being one of the few less racist Stormcloaks in the band who were captured.)
15:44 uh oh, akshually☝ no. There's a "History" button in your character's menu, which contains your history generated on which skills and prohibitions you've choose or which answers you had gave during character creation mini-game. 17:05 necrophilia, Hero of Quatch is inprisoned for necrophilia, but i'd suggest what that line was invented by devs more for a joke purpose.
@@Takarias Last time i checked, my character has appear to be a hereditary member of blades, who's family was a close friends with Emperor Uriel Septim himself.
There isn't really much of a main quest in Arena. As you play all it does from what I remember is go "Stop Jagar" as you find a staff piece then the clue to the next one. There is a bunch of lore in there but how much of that still stands I dunno. It's been a while.
Skyrim's Opening is not killing rpg options. It is the limited imagination and understanding of the player's perception that kills the options to what Skyrim is portraying. The main quest in Skyrim can also allow the player to take breaks in between the main questline like the start of Bleak Falls Barrow, the planning of the Thalmor Embassy, to the feeling of defeat when Alduin tells you that he cannot be defeated that easily in the mortal realm. It is up to you as the player to set those limitations. That is why Skyrim has a superior level of freedom over the previous titles.
11:40 Ulfic and Ralof were arrested near Darkwater Crossing in Eastmarch. Tullius transports them into the Rift…heading to Falkreath Hold and out to Cyrodiil where Ulfic could be paraded before Emporer Titus Mead II. The mentioned blockage in Pale Pass forced a return through Helgen, and there Tullius decided enough with the messing around..Let’s end it here. The player was not in a two day coma from Darkwater Crossing…all we know is you are captured either caught up in the ambush or later, and you have slept for a while on the cart.
Except again it says we must have been caught up in that "same ambush" so even if they're inept enough to not know why they're not being reinforced or there's an oversight. Easiest explanation imo was that (location oversight for the ambush aside) Ulfric used the Thuum and that caused the closure and since then it's been closed off and he had to take us back into Skyrim but due to the risk of someone freeing Ulfric the General makes a call to end his rebellion here and now because after Ulfric falls who would they rally around?
My biggest problem with Skyrim's intro is Ulfric being there. Ulfric is never shown to be one who would even consider surrender. Even if a whole legion ambushed Ulfric and his 8 Stormcloak grunts, Ulfric would choose Sovngarde over execution and dishonor from surrender. You walk into his home after walking through his army, and he fights to the death. He gets ambushed and just surrenders. It does not gel with what we know of him. Especially since he could likely have made it out of that ambush. Ulfric nearly single-handedly took Markarth back from the Forsworn. He shouted the city gates down. Even surrounded, he could open a path for him and his men to get away from that ambush. When Alduin comes down and he gets free, rather than taking his men and leaving, he just stands in a tower. The Helgen section is a straight character assassination of Ulfric.
A good leader knows when they are beat and when to avoid a massacre of their own men. Hate him as much as you want, but he's a good leader for his men he is willing to fall with them instead of use them for cover. Even when you take Whiterun for him, or after every hold you overtake he leaves their leaders alive, he only kills whoever he needs to in order to claim victory and nobody else thus he cares about preventing needless loss of life. Maybe in single combat ulfric would have fought to the death or like you said when he's backed up into his own keep but with others that could potentially suffer needlessly he would surrender. I honestly think he could have thought he could get captured and survive and just didnt anticipate being gagged and not able to shout.
I do think that after the thalmor forged the dossier on him and prevented him from being able to return to the empire after being captured, he also could have thought that with being captured there could be some chance to plead his case to the empire or they would give him some sort of grace because of his truly great service as a soldier and a tongue fighting for them.
I kinda agree with the idea that Skyrim has a somewhat pre-determined start (though you still can make a story of how did you get captured, and whom you were before it). But I completely disagree with the notion that Skyrim locks you on the main quest “unlike in Morrowind or Daggerfall”. You have a quest to go to Whiterun the same way as you have a quest to reach a certain level in a guild. You are free ignore the main quest in both games and you will never become a Dovahkin or a Nerevarin, but in both of them this is the main quest that is shown in your journal. There is literally no core difference in how it is made in Skyrim from how it was made in Morrowind or Nass Effect, or any game with an open world and choices.
The first time I played, he said "We should split up" and I took off. I fought giants and bandits and witches before I found riverwood. I think I was level 10 or so before I found the guardian stones. It was glorious. The idea that you're railroaded into anything seems laughable. Yes, you can't be an existing soldier already fighting, but you can be anything else you want.
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Have you come up with a character origin that you're proud of? Doesn't even have to be Skyrim!
I always roleplay as a Dunmer who immigrated to Windhelm (via mods ofc). Granted it’s a bit hard considering you can’t do much to improve ethnic relations or the quality of life for Dunmer and Argonians in Windhelm/Skyrim (and you also cannot kill that abhorrent racist nord that harasses people in Grey Quarter) but I digress. Love your videos man, they are well throughout and put together!
I made an ex bandit khajiit from Skyrim who when trying to migrate his clan of brigands to cyrodil was ambushed by a platoon of soldiers. Betrayed by one of his own via information leak he was captured and brought to the imperial city. After a few years of prisoner life he started to turn a new leaf given lots of time to reflect on his actions and who he is. He took up an oath of non-lethal violence. (Hand-to-hand) Then eventually he was dragged out once more by the imperials.
First by carriage, and now by boat, to the east, to Morrowind.
My first Morrowind character was a Dunmer orphan raised by Imperial farmers living in a rural area near Chorrol who ended up getting framed for a murder on a trip to the Imperial City after the death of his stepparents. I also felt really satisifed with my last Oblivion character's backstory even though it was way simpler. Just a poor Argonian man (probably like 19 y/o) from the Waterfront District imprisoned due to not being a very good thief. It's hard for me to ever really get into roleplaying in Skyrim because of how much it forces on you with both the story and quests I don't want to accept or have no other options to complete. It's just frustrating and obviously built with completionism in mind unlike the previous games.
I've got this Orc Artificer/Archeologist character I've run in DnD and Skyrim whose name changes frequently but his story and traits remain mostly the same. An expert on ancient technologies (specifically dwemer) and magical enchantments, he's adept with a hammer and shield, proficient in crossbows, and even dabbles in spellcasting. He makes his own Dwemer equipment out of scrap and enchants them himself (he never uses precious Dwemer artifacts found in ruins -- those belong in museums.) I sort of jokingly refer to him as an "experimental archeologist," using ancient techniques out in the field to test how Dwemer warriors fought. I've also got some mods that let me "hack" automatons.
This reminds me of a character I made once in Morrowind who branded himself as an incredible magician. The gimmick was that he had 0 magicka and it was actually all enchanted items, potions, and scrolls. A magical con man. It was a fun character. I should revisit it :)
One of my biggest issues with Bethesda's design direction is not letting the player make mistakes or be committed to something. If I make a high elf mage I can immediately pivot to being a heavy armour warrior, then a stealth archer. I can join every faction and be the leader with no real effort or even skill in what they specialise in. I can not say no to a quest, essential npcs are everywhere and even the rewards I got for most things feel meaningless when I will just craft something significantly better.
It's a real shame that they're so afraid of allowing the player to miss out on something during a single playthrough. It's like they don't even understand the benefits of multiple characters.
Amen to all of that bru.
You can only really roleplay via mods or headcanon ("my character is a blacksmith that doesn't know Alchemy or Enchanting", etc).
About the last one, I fondly remember the GAULDUR AMULET, that supposedly made you the most powerful mage on Tamriel... and is significantly worse than anything double-enchanted by you.
personally thats my favourite thing about elder scroll series (except arena) not being bound by class
and the faction thing really applies only to skyrim, in daggerfall factions were a huge grind, meanwhile in morrowind it required some skill to NOT be expelled from one of guilds when doing their quests (fighters and thieves, easy to get expelled from thieves)
I have been so torn about this for years because I have had plenty of moments where I almost quit a game due to irreversible decisions that either ruin my RP character or completely cut out a section I was really looking forward to. A lot of the time if it’s a longer game odds are I might not get the time to go back and do another play-through so it’s just something I won’t experience.
On the other hand I do completely get that’s it is super goofy and hard to explain RP wise why our version of the DB is allowed to join the imperial army after taking out their emperor (etc.) I think ultimately I’m okay with having RPG’s without hard locks or cutting people out of content but my free time is limited so that might paint my final thoughts on that
This is a fair argument, and I totally get it. I guess I just don't care about finishing the main quest on every character in TES? My goal going in is typically to explore a character mechanically, with some roleplaying for flavor. I create new characters very often, just to try new things.
This is exactly why alternate start mods are so popular. No more long intro sequence, and lots of options that make your character make sense.
Live Another Life is very well done, but I find it just isn't able to stop the player from falling into the main quest. Skyrim railroads too hard
@@Takarias Try Skyrim Unbound. You can set your character to non-dragonborn and the main quest won't start. You can also make it so you can't learn shouts if you want to.
Shouts aren't exclusive to the dragonborn anyway, anyone can learn them
@@imonke5303 Just pointing out that the option is there.
It's more that you have to *work* to avoid the main quest. Side quests in Skyrim don't really send you to places where you'll pick up other side quests - they send you to a dungeon that you fast travel back from. Small adventures that you can't get lost in.
On my first playthrough I didn't even know there was a choice at Helgen. I just ran into the first door I saw to get away from the scary dragon.😂
same I was probably distracted because I didn't noticed Ralof and followed hadvar immediately.
I think that’s how it was for most people. Very first playthrough, there was a lot going on in that scene and most people just ran through the first door they saw. You didn’t really realize there was a choice until the second play through
Did you know if you don't go into either door fast enough, Alduin comes off of the roof and eats you 😂 I cackled the first time I let it happen and thought about treating it like a nuzlocke and just letting that be the end of that character 😂
on a more serious note, one of my major gripes with skyrim has always been the fact that it's virtually impossible to roleplay as an intelligent, well-informed character. you can't feel like you're part of the setting or like you know anything about it, you're always an ignorant outsider. nothing hurts quite as bad as talking to wylandriah and being genuinely interested in applied harmonics, but your only dialogue options are "wow i understand nothing" and "uhhh yeah totally! i know all about that haha! [LYING]".
i understand that this was done for exposition reasons- if a new player had the option to click on "Yeah I already know all that, proceed" every time maybe they'd never learn any lore whatsoever- but it gets tiring to be constantly railroaded into the dumb adventurer/greedy treasurehunter archetype in dialogue. i never got that sense in morrowind because there's no real player dialogue anyway, just topics, so you can imagine your character saying "Saltrice? I've never heard of that. What on Nirn is that?" or you can imagine them saying "Ah, the beloved agricultural staple! What else can you tell me about saltrice cultivation?" or whatever you'd like. they're less responses and more open-ended prompting. (also i LOVE how your intelligence stat gets you more insight in the haj-ei quest, i wish there was more of that!)
lore-wise part of this could be chalked up to the nature of The Prisoner, i get that, but ehhh. if i'm the archmage of winterhold, let me know stuff about magic damn it. if i've read books, let there be a "i've heard of the daedric princes" option instead of forcing my character to be completely clueless 🥲
(ALSO thank you for acknowledging how weird siding with the empire is. first time i saw people saying they "always pick hadvar", i was a bit baffled. the guy working for the people who just tried to cut your head off for no reason??)
Seeing that long list of darkened topics is definitely a visual representation of your character's accumulated knowledge. I will occasionally try to roleplaying my side of Morrowind conversations, kind of a puzzle of trying to fit in a phrase that sounds at least somewhat natural. I did not notice until recently how the Morrowind system lets me define my character's voice in a way later Bethesda games do not. *Especially* Fallout 4, but even the others define my voice by the tone of the voice acting.
@@Takarias There is also another Trend in RPGS. The Choice you make in dialogue gets obfuscated in newer games. (No Neccesarrily bethesta games) Meaning: In Older games your character would exactly say what you have choosen. In newer games you chose an option thiinking its A but the caracter says something totally different. Thats really an annoying thing.
@@Fluxikatoryeah absolutely hate that. You choose something benign like "let the prisoner go" and you say something along the lines of "yeah run away you filthy scum...men shoot them all!" Like I dialed it up a bit but seriously half the time I'm going for a neutral response to a situation I technically have no say in or care for technically and the game finds a way to either make me whiny or a jerk about it.
Nelacar: Tell me, what do you know about soul gems.
Player with 100 enchanting and every perk: They're for enchanting, right?
this one specifically has always bothered me
I think my biggest problem with the character's distinct lack of any kind of knowledge in Skyrim compared to something like Morrowind (aside from, as you mentioned, Morrowind having topics that allow you to RP why/how your character is saying things instead of designated responses) is that while some of it is absolutely plausible, some of it is just ridiculous for any character not to know.
For instance, in Morrowind the majority of the story and sidequests all revolve around Vvardenfell, or expand slightly beyond that into Morrowind proper and Solstheim, and your character is explicitly an outsider to the region. Something specific enough that it justifies why you might not know much (if anything) about the region, but broad enough that it still provides a lot of room for roleplaying where your character comes from. It makes sense that someone from Hammerfell or Cyrodiil wouldn't know much (if anything) about the Tribunal aside from maybe knowing that it's some kind of church that worships three local kings who haven't even been very active in their own country for a few decades now.
There are similar things like that in Skyrim, of course. It makes sense that someone from outside of Skyrim might not know who the Companions are, or what's up with the College of Winterhold. But it feels really silly when your character is asking, let's say for example, "Who are the Aldmeri Dominion/Thalmor?" Local guilds are one thing, but for your character to somehow be completely oblivious to the existence of a nation that has had a massive impact on the political, military, religious, and cultural landscape of the entirety of Tamriel within roughly the last 25-30 years?
I can't even do the civil war quest without becoming dragonborn. Balgruf will not talk to you until the dragon is dead. Which means I have run up to bleak falls, get the golden claw, spin the each dial twice to get the stone and bug out. At that point I'm not a regular soldier anymore. Role playing in a role playing game is essential for role play. Multiple play throughs with different paths is essential. We don't need to see the whole game in one run like Todd thinks.
That doesnt make sense. Its basically just you have to be dragonborn like how geralt has to be geralt or dragonage has to do very specific things, etc. You may have a correct criticism in head that expresses your issues but comment misses mark.
@@Ay-xq7mj A lot of people actually don't like having to be The Chosen One. They actually just want to start as "just some guy", pick their own course and work their way up.
@@Ay-xq7mjI think the criticism is the order of events. Like, you can join the war as a regular soldier, but you can’t complete it until you’ve progressed through the main story enough that you become the dragonborn.
At that point, you’re the chosen one with bigger and better things to do, you’re not a random soldier anymore. The intro sets up the civil war to be one of the first things you should care about, making you pick sides immediately, suggesting that you visit your respective leaders, but then you can’t actually progress through it until you’ve become named the Dragonborn. I can see how that might make roleplaying more difficult. It’s just another example of how Skyrim tries to funnel you down paths and box you in
I get why Bethesda did it, but I much prefer the limited character paths in Morrowind to the Omnipath Superman style Skyrim character.
Agreed! I find it's much more interesting for the player to have mechanical limitations, since that forces the player to come up with creative solutions for problems that arise.
TES6 is going to find a way to be even worse.
You'll have Stealth, Melee, and Mage skill trees, and that's it. No weapon type skills, everything is identical in DPS, and you begin every faction questline as its leader. /s
I actually find in Morrowind and Oblivion you are the Superman style character.
Because of how leveling works, you need to get enough skills up before a level to get 3x the character growth from leveling. If you get too many or little you waste it. You'll have access to everything because the leveling system outright rewards it. You can and should be omnipath.
Sure, if you metagame you can become incredibly powerful. If you don't, you grow into a character that is very powerful in specific areas, and you never lose needing to find creative solutions. Oblivion is a little different because the level scaling is wonky.
i love joining the thieves guild and being forced to become the worshipper of a god and having 0 option to side with mercer, y'know, the guy doing what every thief would. Thank you bethesda very cool
Aside from the fact that he tried killing you, I would agree
Seriously, every time i do that questline, I keep the skeleton key just like he did
I can understand not being able to side with mercer on account of mercer probably doesn't want to side with you, but being forced to sell your soul to a daedric prince for questionably okay armor and 3 abilities you can only have 1 of, 2 of which are mediocre and the last one is okay at best.
Its funny seeing the lovable guild of rogues trope be broken apart by one dude deciding he just wants to be a normal crook and rip anyone he can off
The Imperial Library Arena transcript is a mistake on our part due to our recent migration. Should be fixed soon, thank you for pointing it out.
I thought it was odd that it wasn't there. Thank you for being an incredible resource for the community
You know the worst thing about the civil war premise? You can't tell that there is a war going on most of the time. You don't see battlefields, you don't see destroyed areas, you don't even get to see any skirmishes between Stormcloaks and Legionnaires. The only time you even hear/see the war is from NPCs, and the civil war questline itself. And even during the questline, battles only happen when you make them happen. The latter leading into a whole other issue I have with Skyrim and Bethesda games in general. And let's not even mention how short and underwhelming the civil war questline is; you could easily complete it in less than 30 minutes or 2 in-game days.
The worst thing is that they said they cut half the civil war content because they were rushing to release when they did, but then never reintroduced any of that content in the 50,000 re-releases and remasters they did.
The funny thing is, you see the civil war mainly from the secondary effects of it. That of increased bandits.
Fun fact, it's still possible to complete the main quest of Daggerfall even if you miss the initial timer. It's similar to Morrowind where you can defeat Dagoth Ur if you know already where you're supposed to go.
@@scivoid Y'know, my first draft alluded to this with slightly different wording, but I decided to change it to avoid getting bogged down in explaining how Daggerfall works. :P
@@Takarias Heh, that's fair. It's quite a long video as it is!
@@scivoid28 min7tes? Average video
Length I watch is slowly going towards 2 hours xD
There's another possibility. That Ulfric and his guard were indeed captured at Darkwater, and they were carted to the border pass as they might have been on their way to the Imperial Capitol. But the pass was clogged with drifts, they captured the Dragonborn crossing into Skyrim without documentation. This would be punishable even if the dragonborn is a Nord. Was he a Nord born somewhere else in the empire? Who knows. One thing makes me wonder; the dungeon under Helgen has a Dragonborn book in the torture chamber. They were interrogating folks, with the book right there (perhaps insinuating they were looking for the dragonborn?) The Thalmor know the dragons and their potential meaning. Good, thoughtful video Tarkarias, very enjoyable.
All the helgen prisoners being suspected dragonborns could have been an interesting example of imperial scheming.
And unlike the previous two entries, the player and co would be freed before their imperial captors could conscript them.
I'm afraid skyrim has had an affect on my ability to play rpgs. I have a habit of trying to play a jack of all trades, that likely stems from being able to do anything and everything build wise in skyrim.
Lean into a playstyle! Limitations inspire creativity!
@Takarias It always starts something along the lines of "Oh, I'll be a knight, but wait I need a source of in combat healing, and then there's all these locked doors..." Next thing I know I've essentially taken a level in everything.
@@BoneWalker Locks and lock picking are a predicament, for sure. Morrowind solved this by having the security skill, but also making spells and scrolls reasonable alternatives. Morrowind is like that in general: There's usually a straight skill, a spell, a potion, and/or a scroll for any given action, so all characters have access to all effects, it just differs what form that access takes.
I did this in Morrowind, too.
But my preferred style actually *is* a curiosity and exploration driven figure who will find ways to get access to everything everywhere, and especially knownledge.
In another world I'd be a Ravenclaw with a decided Slytherin attitude to procurement. Or maybe a hybrid.
In yet another world, Azeroth, I was one of those hated true hybrid druids. I'd train new tanks and healers by joining as midrange dps who can instantly shift to tank or healer job if either trainee slips up.
With my usual high end crowd we'd handle high end content with me fluidly shifting between offtank, control and healing jobs. We did DiM in rare gear level while raiding guilds complained that even in epic gear it was too difficult.
Old person rant over. I need my brown gold meds.
@@Takarias Daggerfall also handled locked doors in a pretty good way. Lacking a spell or lockpicking skill, you could just hit the door and it would check against your weapon skill to break the lock open
I'm surprised that no one ever talks about lockpicking and how it breaks roleplay. In both Oblivion and Skyrim you can lockpick any lock regardless of level or skill, you(as in the player) just need to be good at the mini game. But if you are playing as a brawler or any kind of character that wouldn't or shouldn't be able to lockpick, you are still basically forced to or lose out on loot. Basically all dungeons have locked chest and lockpick can be found everywhere. I know unlocking spells are a thing, but it would be nice if you could bash them open too so you didn't have to somehow be the best locksmith barbarian.
No chests, but Daggerfall allows you to attack doors and bust them open that way. I think the calculation might take strength into account? The downside is that you can only attempt to pick a lock once, but you can attack the door as many times as you like, so lockpicking is ultimately totally irrelevant. I do wish they'd revisit the idea, though.
@@Snockooz I have done several playthroughs where my character can't pick locks. There is plenty of loot in the game, you aren't missing much.
Did another where I couldn't loot bodies, that was hard to stick to.
Did one where I couldn't craft, buy, store or sell anything. Was limited to what I found and could carry. That one was fun, I might do it again.
@@matthews7335 I find it's often enough just to limit yourself to one crafting system. Only enchanting, smithing, or potions. (Or whatever else if I'm missing one via brain fart.)
@@Takarias agreed. No matter my character, they will only use one crafting option. Just doing 2 makes it absurd.
I did that play through the first time i played cos crafting and enchanting were boring and so was storing extra gear. Turns out I'm too impatient for RPGs so I turned it into an action game lol
Honestly, Im convinced that the original plan was to have the player funneled down the Stormcloak side of the civil war without an Imperial option.
There are supposedly cut voice lines with Ulfric escaping Helgan with you.
I'm of half a mind that there was originally an entirely different start to the game, and Ralof's Riverwood conversation wasn't going to be attached to it. I don't have much of anything in the way of proof, so that will just have to remain a theory.
Skyrim is the game where I started to go off Bethesda, I'd played Morrowind for what must have been thousands of hours back in the day and while I had a few issues with Oblivion I played it through multiple times so it couldn't have been that bad. Skyrim has a stunning world but to me it felt more like a theme park just as Fallout 3's world did, nothing I did made me feel like I'd made a difference and I wasn't given any reason to care about any of it.
For me the problems started with the opening, no sane person would side with the guys who were about to separate you from your head and you wouldn't side with them in the war for the same reason, the Imperials are introduced to the player in a way an antagonist would be introduced.
Fallout 3 grabbed me, but I'm a bit predisposed to enjoying post-apocalypse media. I think it deserves saying that the mechanics of VATS hooked me, too: I played it on console, where the controls were so bad that VATS was the only way I could reliably hit anything. It turned the game into a cover-based pseudo-turn based shooter, and I found that pretty interesting.
@@Takarias I think the exploration is where the game really shined, for me the world felt like a theme park but one worth exploring because there was so much cool stuff to find that those following the main quest marker would miss.
Many would have missed out on that exploration, the main quest all took place on the bottom third of the map with the exception of Raven Rock but even then you're teleported to it and would no doubt fast travel back, that leaves two thirds of the map full of things to see but no reason to go there, it's poor design, contrast that to games like Morrowind, Oblivion and New Vegas where the player is sent to places all around the world.
I think those who didn't like Fallout 3 should give it another try, only this time when they leave Vault 101 they should ignore the main story and just head north, it's much a better experience.
@@JimUKI remember my time in FO3 as a good time.
But I can't really get back into it thanks to how specific the skill points are.
It feels like I need to have most of my skills planned ahead at least on draft level.
Which reminds me that back then I did just that.
Which in turn reminds me that I had a very rough time in Morrowind until I explicitly designed my class choice to help me control my level progress.
This is one of the good things about Skyrim.
You are less likely to screw your high level self over through just smelling the flowers gameplay.
@@sneezyfido Yeah, Morrowind is old school, you can have a very bad time if you don't plan ahead.
Skyrim‘s biggest claim to fame is its impact on the modding community. Morrowind and oblivion did have mods but Skyrim took that to a whole different level. I know this video was just about the vanilla games So I’m kind of cheating, but the possibilities are endless.
To be fair almost every faction in the game does torture so the Imperials aren't any worse in that way.
I would actually say that the intro itself is pretty good for roleplaying in the sense that as long as you can find a reason for you pg to be close to the border on that specific day (ralof says crossing the border but maybe the guards just find you close and thought you were a rebel scout) ,then the intro works for you, yes it is very long, but you can be an unlucky farmer that happened to be visiting someone or delivering a letter etc. who hides during the whole escape behind Harvar or Ralof, or you could be a necromancer that was looking for ingredients when captured ( with some exceptions, for example your pg can’t already be a rebel stormcloack unless you ignore the fact they don’t know you) the biggest problem about rp’ing in skyrim, as others said in the comments, lies within some mechanics in the game itself, like quests, leveling system etc.
One of my head cannons i often use is "my guy was trying to find ulfric to join the stormcloaks" and thats how i got caught. You could say you were trying to find ulfric to end the war if you want to go imperial.
And yeah its always bothered me how you can join every faction, be a companion with only spells or join the mages never casting a single spell. Or destroy the thieves guild like you can dark brotherhood. Even worse is you have to join the thieves guild and get pretty far into it just so you can get a shout.
One thing, you are already rewriting the game to fit your headcanon there. Shouldn't be necessary to be "blank". Of course a video game will have limitations.
Oblivion and Morrowind is purely "you are a prisoner", that's it, no crime, no motivation, nothing, and skyrim could've done the same. You were just captured alongside. No mention od crossing the border, no motivation.
That's the major difference
@SioxerNikita i completely agree. Noble six from the halo series is a great example too. They give you a little background to work with and ppl loved it. Its still especially your character
@Perroden Halo is not really a roleplaying style game, so kind of irrelevant. Lack of details there is just that... well... details not necessary
@SioxerNikita i was just talking about the character of noble six. Noble six is a near blank slate for you the player design. Just like nate and nora in fallout 4 and skyrim, they are all still your characters to build off of.
I think the introduction to the civil war is great. You start with the typical 'rebels must be the good guys' vibe but there are hints that there is more to it. Ralov being one, Tulius' first reaction to the dragon being to protect the civilians instead of securing the prisoners another. The fact that the fanbase is so divided on which the correct choice is, is a testament to great Bethesda writing, which is not a phrase I thought I would ever say.
I've always felt that Bethesda is good at writing a world, where Obsidian is good at writing a story.
The closest we've seen to an all-star collaboration was New Vegas.
It would have been incredible to have a full collab between those teams.
@@sneezyfido Bethesta is not even good at writing a world either
ill give it to you that Tulius being more concerned about the civilians shows he's a decent guy but hearing him two minutes later mid dragon attack saying "we're leaving" like apparently his plan was to have the civilians hide and then... run away? and its not like Ulfric and the storm cloaks would've been any use in the fight they're unarmed at this point their only option was a mad dash away from the dudes about to behead them
The whole delima with Parthanaax alone was a big split. Even if you modded it where you can tell Delphen off and make her play nice would been a good flex in the base game. The choice between who is right and wrong is a tough one.
The Stormcloaks have practical arguments, but the Thalmor is a threat to reality itself
20:42 - One thing about this part of Hadvar's line that annoys me? If you pick an Argonian, he asks about your origins with a bad line take.
"Are you a relative of one of the Riften dock workers, Argonian?"
Where that comma is, it sounds like he stopped the sentence early with a ?, and then says 'Argonian?' as though he's responding to someone who told him what race someone is and he was surprised by the answer.
On the positive side, the Helgen Opening mod, which changes how the opening plays and changes some VAs, fixes that bad line read. Once again, Bethesda's work being done by modders.
Honestly, most of Hadvar's lines sound drunk...
one of the worst production issues bethesda has (a problem beginning with oblivion and somehow still a recurring problem even today!) is inadequate vocal direction. even now a large amount of 'minor conversation' dialogue lines are handed to the voice actors completely out of order, which makes it nearly impossible for them to create a natural flow between sentences.
for oblivion in particular, every single dialogue line was recorded in *alphabetical order* and usually without any context provided; this created the constant issues where a character's voice not only has the wrong tone but a completely different accent between lines. it's something that they still haven't fully joined industry standard practice on, seemingly because directing and engaging with the rank-and-file actors outside of the marquee hires like patrick stewart and liam neeson is simply not a production priority
Although Morrowind is my favorite TES, and probably one of my favorite games, Skyrim was my first elder Scrolls and I love the series as a role (currently starting a daggerfall unity playthrough).
And I find it very funny, as you said, that they presented us with the "faction" choices in the start of the game, like, there's absolutely no reason to go with the people who just tried to murder you if you are thinking of RP sake. Also I believe that the civil war would do a great video by it self, I really don't like the way it leaves the world, but it's one of the quests that the players action have impact on. Great video as always.
One of very few quests, unfortunately. I understand they want to avoid another Dragon Break situation, but they've gone too far in locking down the player's ability to have an impact.
Hope you enjoy Daggerfall - it's a *very* different game, but it's a super interesting entry to the franchise.
@@Takarias Yeah i agree, hope on the next TES (I know I'm being to optmistic) we'll have better impact. Until now i'm having a great time with daggerfall! Unity has made it a lot more acessible, and I will be forever grateful to their work.
I do have one issue with your analysis. The Stormcloaks being ambushed in Darkwater Crossing and ending up where they are at the start of the game is not illogical. Based on my memory, Darkwater Crossing is in the southern part of Eastmach, a hold controlled by the Stormcloaks. Going north from there would be to face constant ambush from Stormcloaks, especially if you're carrying their dear leader. West isn't much better, as there is a major stronghold manned by bandits along the road to Whiterun. So it's not illogical to choose the southern route, skirting the western edge of Riften Hold through Ivarstead, a rather unassuming town, and going up into the mountains toward Helgen. That would be the route of least resistance. But more importantly, the road you are going down during that intro sequence is the road that passes by an Imperial fort, Newstead or something like that, I forget the name. I believe there is a Stormcloak mission to attack that fort and rid it of the Imperials at one point. So one might expect the Imperials to take prisoners, especially high-profile prisoners on a path that isn't well-trodden and might be more difficult but that leads to a major imperial fortification. There they would naturally hold the prisoners for a time. Tullius probably wasn't there and they would have waited for him to arrive before moving on to Helgen. Furthermore, your character's time of capture is not specified, and could have been joined with the Stormcloak prisoners at the fort some time after their capture and arrival, which doesn't require your character to have been in a coma in order to wake up in the cart when they do.
Strange how they don't acknowledge your point.
@@valentinchappa6702 I did, though. Coming north from the Pale Pass still requires that Tullius is unaware of the Pale Pass's closure due to avalanche.
Regarding Fort Neugrad, it is inhabited by bandits at the start of the game. It passes into Imperial or Stormcloak control based on your actions in the civil war.
@Takarias every fort is inhabited by bandits before the Civil War quest that uses it. That's most likely a gameplay conceit. In Canon, it makes no sense for so many bandit forts to exist, especially during wartime. We can assume, narratively, that the respective armies hold the forts the entire time.
@@Takarias My analysis was primarily based on how the Civil War questline sets things up. From what I remember, they don't acknowledge prior bandit occupation for those forts, and the maps with the red and blue flags on them have it marked with a blue flag even before you join the war. I tend to agree with aetherkid that it's more of a gameplay conceit for those who might not do the civil war stuff so they still can have content in those forts.
That being said, there is no denying that they are occupied by bandits initially in the game, so if you go strictly by that my explanation wouldn't work. However, I think they set that scene up with an Imperial Neugrad in mind, and if you don't visit the fort before becoming part of the Civil War you'd never know and the game will not acknowledge that it was ever occupied by bandits.
Has anyone ever noticed that during the opening, just after you've made your character, when the dragon is not seen but is heard. The headsman seems to be deaf? 🤔😲 😅🤣😂
You aren't necessairily the choosen one in Morrowind, or well er..at least the choosen one by pure chance.
There is a lot of dialogue that leaves it to the player to decide if you're really the prophesized hero, or just some random dude who was at the right place at the right time.
The Cinematic Cutscene says otherwise.
@PowerfulRift It does in fact not. What Azura says to you, she said to countless others.
I love that this ambiguity exists, I just didn't think that was a rabbit hole I should get lost in during a Skyrim video. I would argue that, by successfully fulfilling the prophecy, you *become* the Nerevarine, even if you were not at the start of the game.
@@Takarias That's a valid way to look at it too ofc, but there is specific dialogue at multiple points in the main quest, that let's players who reject the 'phrophesized hero notion', roleplay as just some insanely lucky random dude.
Ofc players who want to be the choosen one can easily roleplay that too.
Maaan! Very great video, enjoyed it. As non-native english speaker, thank you for subtitles!
Fantastic video. Summed up quite a few of my own thoughts. I also wanted to say that seeing a 10 year old video listed on your channel sincerely gave me hope and inspired me. I've bounced the idea around in my head forever of making videos, but I also used to have a very "this has to be successful or it's a waste of time" type of mindset drilled into me, and making videos like this one should be done simply out of wanting to do it, and when I want to do it at that. Definitely subbing, and thank you again 🫶 I know it may seem small but that was a boost of motivation I needed
Go do it. For real. I stagnated and hesitated for years as well. My first Morrowind video was the product of me finally saying, "You know what? I don't care. I'm going to ramble about something, clean that up into a script, record it with decent audio quality, slap some gameplay under it, and just put it out there." I didn't focus on fancy editing (just on making it look clean and not like, janky), I didn't worry about how it would be received... I just put my authentic, nerdy, pedantic, on-the-spectrum self out there because I wanted to.
So, go do it. Forget about trying to hit success right from the word go and just put content you're proud of into the world. There is, literally, nothing you can lose.
I'm not saying you'll strike gold doing it, but if you're not doing it for the artistic expression of it... you won't enjoy doing it, and viewers can smell that from a mile away.
Good luck, have fun, and thanks for the sub. :)
And that's why Alternate Start exists as a mod, but it only works bc it's for a second (or more) playthrough. As compelling and consistent the opening of Skyrim might be, it's true that practically moves you to a melee build. Great video! (And now, I'm going to watch it 😅)
I used to use Live Another Life, but... well, the game railroads you onto the main quest so hard that it kinda doesn't matter :(
Even with Alternate Start the dialogue still reminds you every so often that your character can be anyone you want, as long as you've never met anyone and no one's heard of you.
I've been loving all your videos, and I always look forward to hearing more of your thoughts especially on RPGs. Thank you for sharing them with us!
I'm so glad people are enjoying them! Expect more to come :)
I haven't finished the main quest line in over 7 years. The first 5 years I played out every combination I could think of all the way to the end and feel no real compunction to do it again other than get the quests out of my journal and satisfy my obsessive need t o complete everything and I've reached a point where I can keep even that under control now. You only need 5 shouts to finish the game, 2 of which you don't need to use except early in the game. I haven't figured out why I love this game so much.
Always find your take on the scrolls game and your approach to your videos interesting.
And there's more to come! Not sure what my next video is gonna be, but you can rest assured that it's coming!
I liked and subscribed for more pedantic lore bits.
Oh no, now I have to live up to expectations!
Thank you for the support
Taking a page or 2 out of my DnD campaigns, my character just showed up. That's it, that's all the backstory we need.
The reason for this is that I can justify my lack of knowledge of the series or planning on my character's in-depth role play. For example, the ambush gave my Orc ammesia, so he is still learning about himself as the game continues.
My High Elf, Pancake, is a schoaler who loves to collect books but can't read. So, in her case, she was captured on their way to Helgen. Ralof just thought she was trying to cross the border, but in actuality, she legitimately thought she was in Solitude and was confused why the Blue Palace wasn't there (she can't even read a map).
Or if it's my channel mascot on my alternate account (I have yet to show her), Shenron sent her to Skyrim by accident.
An illiterate book collector! That's definitely a character premise I haven't heard before!
@Takarias the best part about it is that the moment you release that almost 50 or 90% of Skyrim involves some sort of book or letter the Dovakiin needs to read at least once.
For example, you need to read a book to learn about Red Eagle or start the Athrium Forge quest. Or how Delphine leaves a letter for you when you collect the horn.
Because of this, I always have at least one follower with Pancake at all times, in case she needs to read something. Otherwise, everything is just out of instinct or coincidence.
That's why I find it easier to not play as a nord. The whole "I'm a foreign traveller, so I don't know your map or your legends"
To this day having a pop up b4 you exit helgen to remake your character would be nice every single other bethesda game to my knowledge has a moment like that would make the game so much more replayable imo
"We'll make sure your remains return to Elsweyr" Oh yeah, I'm sure you will :)
Just binged your last 4 TES videos. Please make more. I need second monitor content. thanks :D
That's the plan! Thanks for watching
Bethesda doesn't make RPGs, and they really need to drop the act of doing so. They build open-world sandbox action-adventure games with light role-playing elements, but they don't make RPGs.
They do make RPGs
No video game is truly an RPG, if you want to be pedantic. None of any backstory you invent ever becomes part of the game. You do no really RP with NPCs, you select from a multiple choice option of dialogue.
You play the role of the Last Dragonborn, a Hero, an Unbound Prisoner. Technically speaking, it is an RPG, due to this. But, I do agree that it's lighter than other games and the actual matter of making choices is either minor or hardly consequential, with the exception of a few quest outcomes.
@@ionaerofeeffwould you look someone dead in the eyes and say call of duty is an rpg because you play the role of xyz soldier?
@ambiguouszenithar No, but I can say Skyrim is more of an RPG than Call of Duty.
Still, Skyrim has more roleplay options than Fallout 4. At least you don't HAVE to be a 108th Infantry Regiment veteran, father to a disappointment son, husband of wife who's shot, owner of Codsworth, etc.
Yeah... Fallout 4 was a roleplaying disaster. Starfield is better in the character origin department, but the NG+ mechanic is awful.
@ Yeah both Fallout 4 and Fallout 3 should have let you be anyone you want like Fallout New Vegas did. I liked Fallout 3 but it would be alot funner if I wasn't forced to look for my father Liam Neeson the entire game.
I mean, being given a family is fine, been done in 3 which is nowhere near as disliked. But the rest… yeah.
@@SuperBatSpider I agree with that. Being given a family or at least others you consider kin is fine, i've seen it done perfectly in the mod "Fallout: New California". But not when it gives me very little wiggle room to make up my character's background story on my own.
I have a friend who for years used to tell me Skyrim Sucked, and then I finally asked him what happened when he played the game. So what he did is he took Ralof's advice about splitting up and then he made his way directly to Windhelm and joined the Storm Cloaks and did the Civil War questline. And then he got to the end of the Civil War and never thought that he had beaten the game without ever fighting a dragon, or finding or starting any of the other faction questlines.
I talked him into starting a new playthru and this time follow the guy he goes with the Riverwood and he found the main quest right away and then ran into all the faction quests along the way, his opinion took a complete 180 after that.
The thing about main quest is that if you follow you will meet someone who can show you how to start each one of the faction quest lines along the way. And joining the College of Winterhold is pretty much a hard requirement for completing the main quest.
For your Khajiit character, I can think of a few explanations for why your character got captured solo. For a more heroic path, maybe you noticed the ambush ahead of time and rushed forward to spring it, so your charge wouldn't be caught. For a more villainous path, maybe your group was attacked by bandits and you slunk away. For a more neutral path, maybe you just got momentarily distracted at the wrong place at the wrong time, and your group left you behind. You didn't get to explain anything because an imperial mace soon met the back of your head, instant KO
15:42 In Arena you do start as a prisioner, but yes, you do have some established backstory before being a prisioner, unlike III, IV and V. Jagar Tharn throws you there for considering you a ally of the original emperor (I dont remember if it is exactly this though), and possibly a threat to his plan, but thanks to the ghost of Ria Silmane you understand the circunstances the empire is in and you escape the prison to thwart Jagar's plan.
When you’re given the first choice, you think “why would I choose the side that literally just tried to kill me?” and depending on your character race were racist to you. You want to join the Stormcloaks. Hours later you go to Windhelm to sign up only to find the storm cloaks are even more racist: certain races aren’t even allowed in the city, and some in the city are forced to live in a slum area. The “Grey quarter” name itself is racist and insensitive. It’s at that point when you have to truly make the decision what side to choose
As if the Dunmer were any better, N'wah.
@ the racism was definitely worse in Morrowind
I mostly agree. When i make a character really intended for roleplay, i feel you really need to fight the game design instead of actually going about the world. It doesn't really feel different unless you really harshly limit what you can do. Morrowind and Oblivion did this a lot better (Morrowind more than Oblivion). Sure you had to limit yourself, but the games' quests had different ways to go about something. Stealth, careful combat, archery, speech, rushing in, all different options. If there's a locked door, there's likely a key to be around, or hints to where the key could be, or in the possession of the owner, even if you're in some dungeons. The game allowed you to focus on certain skills, and "ignore" others a lot more easily.
And regarding Daggerfall, sure, certain things were timed, such as going to Breanna, and delivering some things, but once you are on the actual quest you have as much time as you want to actually complete it, iirc anyway. There may be some timed dungeon quest i'm forgetting, it's been ages since i actually played through the storyline. The DOS version was all we actually had when i played through it then. :D
Isn't the point of keeping the player's capture vague so you can come up with your own story? Isn't that necessary if you're going to roleplay? In contrast to games like Fallout 3 or 4 where your backstory is much more clear, but you have less room to make it your own.
Honestly, I felt the Dragonborn offered much more room for roleplaying than the previous two titles. The Dragonborn only tells me what my character is, not who they are...or were There's plenty of different sorts of Dragonborns, but the "Hero of Kvatch" is clearly a hero. You can't even pick your basic alignment, let alone your character. And the Nerevarine is Nerevar, so any character you make is rendered invalid. You're simply Nerevar.
Personally, I always got the impression they were trying to paint the Stormcloaks a more sympathetic introduction to make up for...the rest of the game.
Yeah the character being a prisoner is exactly why they choose that type of start it’s so you can pretty much make whatever backstory for your character
In Skyrim, they tell you why you were captured, though, don't they? The Imperials catches you while you were trying to cross the border illegally, so if you wanna roleplay, you have to always consider why you were crossing illegally. Meanwhile, in Oblivion, you are just some prisoner and are not told why (as said in the vid, you can come up with any reason for your capture, whether it was false imprisonment or not). You only become Hero of Kvatch when you actually cleanse Kvatch of the Daedra, which you can decide not to do. In Morrowind, you are also just some prisoner and the game makes it vague as to whether you were always the Nerevarine or if completing the ritual is what made you the Nerevarine. The Nerevarine is simply a reincarnation of the Nerevar, so whoever your character is currently is entirely up to you.
Have you ever played, or even read a synopsis, of those two games?
@@AeridisArt Since when do any of the provinces have border control? That's sort of one of the key points of all being apart of the same Empire. I mean hell, you cross into Morrowind (Solstheim) without any issues.
@@zeveria7206 I'd imagine there's still be checkpoints where you have to register yourself considering how the Imperials are and the current state of affairs (the civil war).
The game clearly states that the Dragonborn was captured while they were crossing the border from Cyrodiil.
Hey, good video! Love Skyrim too, but always open to people's takes on negative aspects of it, even if I may no agree. Well crafted video and good delivery! Looking forward to more. Subscribed!
Thanks for the sub! I agree, always happy to have a respectful debate with alternate takes :)
Also, living up to the username. I love it. lol
@ 😂🙏
2:27 Hi, German speaker here. Just fyi, you did a decent job pronouncing that (:
Also, yay, a new upload
Oh, good. I definitely didn't match my reference, but... I'll happily accept recognizable lol
I like Skyrim, it makes a great survival sandbox if you mod it right. Always makes me want to play Morrowind though (which is the reason I'm playing Morrowind right now)
I'm really hoping that once the OpenMW lua scripting thing happens someone can port Ashfall to OpenMW and I can live out my Ashlander hunter best life.
I get what you mean. With mods, Skyrim sometimes feels like a high-level game engine you're building your own experience in.
The beginning force you to side with Stormcloaks because they don't cut people's heads off without a trial. There are no skeletons, torture tools, torturers or dead bodies in Stormcloak dungeons, so if you are playing a moral character you can't side with the Empire.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Or didn't take side and Chill with the Dawnguard
I think Skyrims setup is fine. Comparing Skyrim and Morrowind, the roleplay origin question that you're promted to ask is "Why did my character decide to enter Skyrim?" and "Why is my character in prision?". Skyrim has the problem that it's hard to have a concrete goal to fullfill in Skyrim since the game will never recognize that goal and you can't leave when you've completed it which make reasons like "to run away from something in Cyrodiil" or "to start a new life" easier to roleplay. Morrowind provides a convenient excuse for why goals you might have had in your past life aren't relevant anymore, which is a little bit better but I ultimately don't think that this is a very large issue.
One of my favorite roleplay experiences in Skyrim was playing as a scholar who wanted to study Dwemer ruins in Skyrim with the Aetherium Crown questline serving as a main quest of sorts, which would have fit just fine with Skyrims opening (even if I happened to be playing with an alternate start mod because who has the time to replay the intro after you've seen it twice?). For most characters however, it does get out of the way enough that I can just do whatever I want with my character which is the most important thing at the end of the day.
On my first couple playthroughs, I had no idea you could follow Hadvar. The game so overtly made you emotionally favor Ralof that I thought it was the only choice
Skyrim indeed had a vibe, and that’s what makes modding so great, you get the backbone of Skyrim but with new or cooler additions
Someone that played and beat Arena here. It's very simple in story, but in that it gives you a lot of room for imagination.
The thing i hate about bethesda games is not it is holding my hand and showing everything. In fact, RPG games -especially bethesda's- needs that feature because my common sense may not be added into the game. What i hate about are lack of options and unreactive world. I always give this example: (SPOILER) after doing season unending, making the two political factions sign a truce till alduin is defeated, if you try to join them they do not acknowledge who you are. Galmar still sends you to kill that ice wraith to "prove you are capable". Brother, you begged me to favor the truce in your favor a while back, just so i can kill the literal tyrant dragon who eats the souls of the dead. How come you not acknowledge this? The other thing i have a problem about, which is lack of options, can be explained further. Most quests tend to have one ending, no matter the player actions. The Paarthurnax quest is famous for this, since there is no way to finish that quest but killing Paarthurnax. However, other quests tend to have the same issue (and i heard if you do that Paarthurnax quest early in game, you can finish it without killing him). Another example is the quests involving whiterun. When starting the game, if you ignore the main questline and for example join the stormcloaks, balgruff will simply refuse to be sieged by stormcloaks because apperantly bethesda did not want us to do the main questline with a stormcloak jarl. I have no option to play the quests in which order i want, how i want, and with which impacts i done to the world.
I’m a lurker by trade and I just have to say, I am so glad I found your channel! Keep up this good work.
I look forward to your thoughts on Oblivion’s intro and maybe one for Starfield?!
Regardless, you have earned a permasubscriber!
Us Morrowboomers have to look out for each other 😉
Thank you for the support! Us olds gotta teach the younguns what makes games great!
@@TakariasYou are doing the Lord Talos’ work!
You're a lurker? I didn't know Apocropha had wifi, I guess Hermaeus Mora really is the prince of knowledge. 😂
I already know what you're talking about bro! I try so hard to like come up with characters I want to play as and tackle the Skyrim world but the opening and its flow is just too good you can't help but follow along until Whiterun.
Hey man new subsciber here
Keep up the good work
21:58 that slide is till there
Bethesda jank will never die!
27:19 It's funny to me too. As an aside the very first time I played Skyrim, when told we should split up, I actually did. And then when I started a new character was surprised at all the little dialogue and story bits that I missed out on for doing what the game asked of me. 😅
I think it would be really cool if the next game had multiple starting options
I'm told there are mods for that (half the comments on this video) lol
But it would be neat to see in the base game, for sure
I can't understand playing Skyrim without Ordinator at the very least anymore 😭
That's an interesting overhaul. I will keep that in mind for if I ever for for a super heavily modded playthrough!
It's been mentioned before but skyrim unbound is a must for me now. I usually set my beginning in one of the port cities like Dawnstar or Solitude, a fresh off the boat immigrant trying to find a new life in a new land. It allows me to craft my character and roleplay. It also allows me to forgo the Dragonborn path entirely so my character can go their own way. Way more fun for me.
im really into this video so far
Character origins you ask! Complicated! First, at release I had XB360, so no mods. So I chose the best looking vanilla char… because I go with 3rd person, guiding my character…not being them myself. I preferred to follow a female…so a Nord woman then. When I upgraded and used mods, I prettied her up a lot, and improved the game look overall, but kept vanilla mechanics. Now the RP bit…My character Adella, I played as though at first she was just dumb pixels, but soon realised RP meant a personality ‘script’…but I extended her knowledge and learning as we went along, giving her an actual personality and way of behaving in any particular situation. Soon she felt nearly real to me, I knew how she’d want to react and tackle situations and it wasn’t always how “I” would handle it..she is more courageous than I, somewhat more ruthless also. This all took years understand, 1000’s of hours interacting and building who she is. Now, I can’t play Skyrim as anyone else….she won’t allow it😂. Play style was crucial to a meta-bond, we play almost exclusively Dead is Dead on Legendary with a small list of game toughening rules. If Adella dies on screen for any reason, we re-start with Ralof in the Keep at Level 1. Tough, but fair ok. When hundreds of hours and your character’s life are on the line you stop treating them as just a throw away toy and invest in their well being. So in short, I don’t play Adella, I play alongside her, guiding and mentoring her progress through multiple questiles with the aim of staying alive….
Laughs in Realm of Lorkhan.
Ever since the release of Boulder's gate 3 and starfield people have realized that Bethesda games are not great.
Some of us knew what was happening when Oblivion released.
Is this a part 1 video? I was enjoying your points so far, it seemed like there could've been more at the end.
great video as always
Thank you for watching, as always!
Railroading can work. Skyrim just pretends it isn't doing it which is the main issue. Enderal embraces railroading and ironically even though the game is more linear. Gives you way more role playing options.
The main issue with Skyrim is you have Oblivion and Morrowind to compare it to. Games that give an intro then actually just throw you to the wolves and let you do whatever. Morrowind famously just flat out tells you that you aren't good enough for the main quest and to come back later. With zero guide on what to do
Me: This time I'll do some hardcore roleplaying in Skyrim!
Also Me, the second combat while roleplaying gets difficult: Then again, there's nothing wrong with another Stealth Archer run!
I unironically enjoy Skyrim stealth archers lol
Yeah, it's hyper easy mode, but it's still satisfying to clear rooms without being noticed by the braindead AI
@Takarias *THUNK* "Must have been the w-" *THUNK*
im showing a map in a moment so im giving you a heads up
unironically got me to tab back to the video lmao
I'm a viewer myself, I know the frustration of references to visuals that are gone by the time I tab back to the window :)
The biggest handcuff to characters in Skyrim are the dragonborn parts. Many characters you can create make no sense to be dragonborn. That should be limited to certain character play styles and not just anyone who starts a game of Skyrim.
I feel you on the urgency of the main quest. Really the only place I can find to jump off the main quest if I don't want it to be my character's focus is Bleak Falls Barrow. If I never go there, then Farengar has given me a research quest that I can say I'll "get around to eventually" and there are no dragons popping up or any indication that the attack at Helgen was anything more than a fluke. After Bleak Falls Barrow, yeah, the world's ending, why aren't you doing something about that?!
Or you can just install an alternate start mod I guess, but I I think your point is that you shouldn't have to mod a game to make the RP flow.
Ah, you get it! Yes, mods exist, but the base game should still be a strong experience in its own right.
I had assumed the player character and Stormcloaks were traveling from Helgen from Fort Neugrad, where they were all imprisoned. That seems to be the route they're taking to Helgen and it's not implausible that Stormcloaks captured in Darkwater Cross would be held there. Also, crossing the border is illegal in itself and that's why the player character is imprisoned. Furthermore, the game doesn't 'force you down the dragonborn path' as you say, since you can avoid fight dragons altogether if you want to. T
Try to finish the civil war quest without fighting your first dragon.
With the whole border issue, it seems like some people have come to the conclusion that Ulfric was captured at Darkwater crossing, and was taken to fort Neugrad. General Tullius probably wanted to see if the pass had been cleared by now, wanting to get Ulfric executed in Cyrodiil, but seeing as the pass was still blocked, he decided to have Ulfric executed publicly in the nearest Imperial town, that being Helgen. The dragonborn would have crossed the border into Skyrim through the rocky pass, being captured by imperials and taken to fort Neugrad for reasons unknown. There would then be a mix up with the carts as Ulfric and the stormcloaks were being moved to Helge, with an extra prisoner being loaded back onto the cart, that prisoner being the Dragonborn. It seems to make the most sense of what we’re given, but it’s still probably just bad writing
I would argue in morrowind that you're the chosen one because you complete a certain set of objectives and criteria & that anyone could have been the nevarine if they matched the criteria.
I also really like the interpretation that the player becomes Nerevarine through their actions, though surely one needs to be predisposed to being able to do so
@@Takarias I mean yeah, you need to be both strong enough, smart enough & have the motivation to need or want to fufill the prophecy. We see a ton of people who failed in the game.
Something to remember is that "Mantling" retroactively changes the past, so the moment you fulfill the prophecy and Mantle the Neverine the universe rewrites itself, so you were ALWAYS the Neverine.
So you were born the Neverine because the future you managed to become the Neverine.
Dagoth Ur clearly recognizes the player as Neravar
@@sufficient4834 Yes, because you made it here, because you likely fulfilled the prophecy to get here.
I'm about to embark on my first playthrough of Skyrim, ever in the not too distant future.
This isn't my first TES title; I played the hell out of Morrowind and its expansions back when they were new but dropped the series (and Bethesda entirely) after a long and painful slog through Fallout 3 and its nightmarish technical problems.
Most people played those games on the Xbox 360 and were blissfully ignorant of the game engine's deranged coding. Playing those games on PC meant playing Russian Roulette with your system profile, as even very small things that didn't effect any other game on the market could cause Gamebryo to blow its head off in confusion and crash.
I don't mean the usual CPU/GPU/RAM and their drivers, but stuff like what sound-card/chip, the presence/absence of network card or modem, and even the version of Java/Flash you had installed because the default U.I. lazily relied on a very specific version of those program suites to function, and having one that was too new would risk a fatal error every time you opened the menu. (something that fans patched after a couple of years of misery and troubleshooting into those games' releases; Bethesda didn't bother fixing any of that until they had Special/GOTY Editions out, and even then they didn't fix every major issue)
TL;DR: I stopped playing Bethesda games because I had no interest in buying yet another game console, and their PC technical support was wildly inconsistent; borderline psychotic. (the meme about fans making Bethesda games great is no joke; they rely on fans for so much that their plan to taxing mods with royalties would have outright killed their business had they went through with it.)
That, and the games after Morrowind were...just not that good to engage with outside of the combat, which itself was only passable, and not great. The roleplay became dumber and dumber, scenarios and character became increasingly shallow, and the writing for the main story of Fallout 3 in particular was one of the most insultingly stupid goddamned things I've seen in any form of media. ("You must kill yourself to turn on this water purifier or you're literally Satan! Now go watch one of two lazy endings despite Todd Howard promising hundreds!")
I played oblivion as a kid, skyrim on release, and morrowind only in 2021. Morrowind had become my favourite by far. Took time to get used to the outdated design but it's a much better RPG than the latter entries. Better GAME? I wouldn't say so, but a better ROLEPLAYING game, absolutely.
The travel system is so much better too. Even that factors into role-playing. I'm a warrior who dislikes magic? I'm cut off from mages guild transport.
I miss spell making. Other than that, my biggest problem with skyrim oblivion and morrowind is i'm always a prisoner, so i have to plan my roleplay around why i was a prisoner. On the topic of spell making, once in morrowind, i saved up gold for a long time when gold didn't matter as much, made a spell without understanding what the sliders meant, got the tribunal dlc, tried to use my spell on the douchebag elf that attacks you, turns out i made what's basically an aoe spell, killed him, and lots of other people.
Spell making can be dangerous, for sure! Tarhiel might have something to say about that...
I think they stick with the prisoner origin because it removes character agency: It makes it easier to explain why your character is in that situation. See Starfield for a great example of not being a prisoner causing issues: You *have* to explain why your character willingly signed up for a mining gig. The prisoner origin always lets you say you were framed and innocent.
Liked and subscribed for more pedantic lore corrections.
Oh no, expectations! (Thank you for the support!)
I wanna say that I’ve never played the civil war story, but pick hadvar in the beginning strictly because you collect slightly more loot
Your solution to finding that perfect TES roleplay experience is Daggerfall Unity
I've played Daggerfall a fair bit! It's neat, definitely my second favorite TES game after Morrowind.
I was a young, orphaned Wood Elf fleeing my adoptive Nord clan back to Valenwood after my coming-of-age ceremony - I was tasked with killing an Imperial soldier to prove my commitment to the rebellion - ended in humiliation. Instead of delivering a swift and honorable death, I managed only to shoot the poor, hapless man in the knee.
I've played through the Skyrim Intro so many times and not one single time have I ever sided with the faction that *wanted to cut off my head* a minute ago. What were the writers thinking?
Offtopic but the intro highlights one of the rules i have for playing Skyrim. I do not move during the animations of doors opening, pulling levers, etc, cuz otherwise the traps are pointless
To be honest with you i can not get into skyrim for the life of me I've tried at least 10 times with mods, without after i leave white run i feel like there's nothing much to do. I cant the story is kinda mid and it doesn't really pull me in and i cant get immersed. I really want to just play as a paladin, mage, or cleric even as a potions maker. that you can do but its not really viable( I cant only use potions in battle or to buff a teammate.) They don't have it where when you pick how you want to play like mage or warrior it doesn't give you a bump in stats
On a side note i really wish there is a mod that started with a few followers that is like in a party with classes like a dnd type thing.
If you ever do want to experience Arena but don't want to have to deal with that 1st game jank there's a mod for daggerfall unity that imports arena into the game letting you play through the events of both games in the superior version of the two games
If I remember right, that mod supplants Arena's main quest into DFU, but that's ultimately just Daggerfall with some text strings swapped around. I find the mechanical differences at least as interesting as the narrative ones, so if I'm gonna play Arena, I want to play Arena. Until then, longplays and transcripts will have to suffice.
Skyrim is an action adventure game, not an RPG.
Sadly, you're not wrong... Some day, I'll tackle that claim head-on in a video.
My biggest gripe is the factions to join the Thieves Guild is just a copy and paste of the Dark Brotherhood (Fallen on hard times half way through you get backstabbed and find out it's the leader of the guild who did it) And also no ranking system can literally go from newbie to head of the guild (Or arch mage) In the span of about 15 or so quests
Going to start a new playthrough now tbh
Glad I could inspire! What character premise has your fancy?
Yeah, this is why I always use alternate start, though i do tend to do the main quest, the Dragonborn just is doing other things in Skyrim at first, rather than being a prisoner. The closest RP I've done for "Was captured with the Stormcloaks" is an Altmer hunter who was born and raised in Cyrodil who accidentally followed some prey too far north across the border without realizing it and got caught up accidentally. He was pissed at everyone, especially the Imperials for not doing their due diligence to figure out who he was, but also pretty pissed at the Stormcloaks for not vouching that he wasn't with them (and considering he's an Altmer, the headcanon I went with was the Stormcloacks, except for Ralof, were racist against him, assuming him to be some kind of Thalmor spy; so they figured if they could get an Altmer's head rolling it would be another Thalmor Spy out of commission. Ralof's friendliness is him being one of the few less racist Stormcloaks in the band who were captured.)
15:44 uh oh, akshually☝ no. There's a "History" button in your character's menu, which contains your history generated on which skills and prohibitions you've choose or which answers you had gave during character creation mini-game.
17:05 necrophilia, Hero of Quatch is inprisoned for necrophilia, but i'd suggest what that line was invented by devs more for a joke purpose.
I always forget the history button is there at all! Interesting that some of the generated backgrounds contradict the intro FMV a little
@@Takarias Last time i checked, my character has appear to be a hereditary member of blades, who's family was a close friends with Emperor Uriel Septim himself.
I loaded up the charas I showed in this video, and he was a thief that ended up saving the emperor from an assassin during a parade.
@@Takarias Now i wonder how many answer combinations\skill combinations is in the game to make a different histories
Well... as someone how started with Morrowind I can only agree😅
hey, you're finally awake
There isn't really much of a main quest in Arena. As you play all it does from what I remember is go "Stop Jagar" as you find a staff piece then the clue to the next one. There is a bunch of lore in there but how much of that still stands I dunno. It's been a while.
Skyrim's Opening is not killing rpg options. It is the limited imagination and understanding of the player's perception that kills the options to what Skyrim is portraying.
The main quest in Skyrim can also allow the player to take breaks in between the main questline like the start of Bleak Falls Barrow, the planning of the Thalmor Embassy, to the feeling of defeat when Alduin tells you that he cannot be defeated that easily in the mortal realm. It is up to you as the player to set those limitations. That is why Skyrim has a superior level of freedom over the previous titles.
11:40 Ulfic and Ralof were arrested near Darkwater Crossing in Eastmarch. Tullius transports them into the Rift…heading to Falkreath Hold and out to Cyrodiil where Ulfic could be paraded before Emporer Titus Mead II. The mentioned blockage in Pale Pass forced a return through Helgen, and there Tullius decided enough with the messing around..Let’s end it here. The player was not in a two day coma from Darkwater Crossing…all we know is you are captured either caught up in the ambush or later, and you have slept for a while on the cart.
Except again it says we must have been caught up in that "same ambush" so even if they're inept enough to not know why they're not being reinforced or there's an oversight. Easiest explanation imo was that (location oversight for the ambush aside) Ulfric used the Thuum and that caused the closure and since then it's been closed off and he had to take us back into Skyrim but due to the risk of someone freeing Ulfric the General makes a call to end his rebellion here and now because after Ulfric falls who would they rally around?
My biggest problem with Skyrim's intro is Ulfric being there. Ulfric is never shown to be one who would even consider surrender. Even if a whole legion ambushed Ulfric and his 8 Stormcloak grunts, Ulfric would choose Sovngarde over execution and dishonor from surrender.
You walk into his home after walking through his army, and he fights to the death. He gets ambushed and just surrenders. It does not gel with what we know of him. Especially since he could likely have made it out of that ambush. Ulfric nearly single-handedly took Markarth back from the Forsworn. He shouted the city gates down. Even surrounded, he could open a path for him and his men to get away from that ambush. When Alduin comes down and he gets free, rather than taking his men and leaving, he just stands in a tower. The Helgen section is a straight character assassination of Ulfric.
A good leader knows when they are beat and when to avoid a massacre of their own men. Hate him as much as you want, but he's a good leader for his men he is willing to fall with them instead of use them for cover. Even when you take Whiterun for him, or after every hold you overtake he leaves their leaders alive, he only kills whoever he needs to in order to claim victory and nobody else thus he cares about preventing needless loss of life. Maybe in single combat ulfric would have fought to the death or like you said when he's backed up into his own keep but with others that could potentially suffer needlessly he would surrender. I honestly think he could have thought he could get captured and survive and just didnt anticipate being gagged and not able to shout.
I do think that after the thalmor forged the dossier on him and prevented him from being able to return to the empire after being captured, he also could have thought that with being captured there could be some chance to plead his case to the empire or they would give him some sort of grace because of his truly great service as a soldier and a tongue fighting for them.
I kinda agree with the idea that Skyrim has a somewhat pre-determined start (though you still can make a story of how did you get captured, and whom you were before it).
But I completely disagree with the notion that Skyrim locks you on the main quest “unlike in Morrowind or Daggerfall”. You have a quest to go to Whiterun the same way as you have a quest to reach a certain level in a guild. You are free ignore the main quest in both games and you will never become a Dovahkin or a Nerevarin, but in both of them this is the main quest that is shown in your journal. There is literally no core difference in how it is made in Skyrim from how it was made in Morrowind or Nass Effect, or any game with an open world and choices.
The first time I played, he said "We should split up" and I took off. I fought giants and bandits and witches before I found riverwood. I think I was level 10 or so before I found the guardian stones. It was glorious. The idea that you're railroaded into anything seems laughable. Yes, you can't be an existing soldier already fighting, but you can be anything else you want.
You can just ignore the main quest forever. I haven't spoken to Balgruuf in 13 years.
You spent a sixth of the video whining about how you love Skyrim