hi, this has been the best describtion about nutrient comparison from mineral vs organic sources I have ever found on TH-cam. Together with your other videos you blow my mind, thank you so much!
I absolutely love the videos you put out. Nothing but FACTS. May I make a request for a couple videos? How about growing plants under LED lights, and the changes in nutrient requirements needed? Also, hydroponic nutrients and coco coir and the specific elemental ppm breakdown of the feed needed? I've read so much stuff about coco feeds needing lower potassium because it gives it off as it decomposes. Along with more calcium and magnesium to satisfy the CEC. But i think I'd trust the information so much more coming from you Daniel. Instead of forums where there is a lot of people giving out advice that shouldn't be. I appreciate the consideration and your time my friend!
Hi, very interesting content. What about carbon uptake? Would it make any difference giving carbohydrates (sugars) to the plant together with the hydroponic nutrient? What about adding also humic/fulvic acids to the nutrients? And last but not least what is your opinion regarding the addition of algae? Thanks in advance for your kind response and keep up with your excellent job in explaining hydroponics. Bye from Italy.
Thanks for commenting! I made a video about carbon uptake in hydroponics which should answer some of your questions: th-cam.com/video/_JmgzjHAtDw/w-d-xo.html . About humic/fulvic acids, please read these posts I wrote on the subject scienceinhydroponics.com/2017/09/humic-acids-in-hydroponics.html, scienceinhydroponics.com/2021/04/the-value-of-fulvic-acid-in-hydroponics.html . About algae (kelp) please read this post scienceinhydroponics.com/2020/11/the-effect-of-seaweed-kelp-extracts-in-plants.html . I hope you find all this info useful!
It depends, because in organics there are a lot of things that are in solution that do not conduct electricity. Keep your osmotic pressure at the equivalent of a 2.0mS/cm NaCl solution. This might be an EC of 0.5 or 1.5mS/cm, depending on how many non-conducting soluble substances you have. You can use an osmometer to measure osmotic pressure.
What about a mineral salt set up with organic acids, fungi, enzymatic bacteria, and nutrient fixing micros. Fertigated mineral salts and a tea that would get hose watered or separately fertigated once a week. Would it be pointless to use fungi and microbes because of the lower pH of the hydroponic solition??
The plants would do just fine. There will still be plenty of microbes, only that those that survive will be those that do better under lower pH values. This is often fine if you're providing the nitrate nitrogen directly, as the microbials that are most useful at a pH of 7 are the nitrifying bacteria, which aren't required by the plant if the nitrate is explicitly supplied. However, it would be good to compare the results of doing this setup with a straight hydroponic setup using only raw salts, as it is often the case that an approach with only salts can provide results that are just as good, without the added complication of providing all those other inputs. In some cases these exogenous substances might provide some improvement, but this is by no means a guarantee. A biologically active setup can also be far worse performing than a purely salt based approach, depending on many factors, most importantly oxygen availability to roots (many microbials can deprive the root zone of oxygenation, so microbes don't come at no cost to the plant).
Thank you for the reply. I've had great results running mineral with added "biostimulants". I've had great results running sterile. Flavor seems to be better with some organic acids (I use a product called Mr Fulvic/AGT50) and some Bacillus, fungi, and mono silicic acid, and some enzymatic bacteria. The scale of operation would obviously be a factor for practicality's sake. What makes the flavor better? Idk. Am I Biased? Most likely. If you wanna test some stuff, I've found great results with Southern Ag Garden Friendly Fungicide (Bacillus S.), Mr Fulvic/AGT50 (Fulvic +21 organic acids), an active pondzyme product (enzymatic bacteria), and just some recharge or any multi microbe/fungi/fuel combo. I irrigate separately from mineral so no issues arise from clogged dippers. It's fun. I love your videos. Thank you for the contributions.
thanks for putting this together, but I think there's some important ideas missing... decomposing protein to aminos to ammonia/ammonium is alkalizing (consumes 1 hydronium). nitrifying ammonia/ammonium to nitrite to nitrate is acidifying(produces 2 hydronium). plants taking up nitrate to create aminos is alkalizing (consume 1 hydronium). The full nitrogen cycle is pH neutral. When you add nitrogen in the form of protein, it's decomposed, then nitrified then assimilated back into protein in the plant, that's a complete nitrogen cycle and there's no pH change...it's going to stay 6.5 if your water source is that. It's going to stay 7.5 if your water source is that. If you had organic nutrient solution and add calcium nitrate as your nitrogen, the pH of the solution would go up and up. If you instead add urea (synthetic or urine) which operates like ammonia/ammonium the pH of the solution would continuously go down (until all carbonates are consumed and pH crashes and kills the microbiome). The microbiome doesn't want to buffer the solution from 6.5-7.5, it only does that because of where you started the nitrogen cycle. If there were a way to put nitrite(NO2) in the solution, it would alkalize like Nitrate (NO3), but at half the speed. You can pH adjust an organic solution with "pH down" doser and a "pH up" doser, like how commercial operations automatically continuously monitor pH and dose as needed. Instead of phosphoric acid and potassium hydroxide in your dosers, you can have dissolved urea for pH down and hydrolyzed protein for pH up. When the pH is above 6.2, dose with urea. When the pH is below 6.2, dose with hydrolyzed protein. Each dose, whether its urea or hydrolyzed protein should have the same quantity of N, and should match the uptake of N by the plants in the system.
I have tried an approach to attempt to control pH with that idea in mind, it did not work well. At the pH required by the plants, the speed of these different processes is not the same and they do not adequately compensate for what the plant is doing in terms of plant uptake. Bear in mind that the changes in pH in an organic system are not only caused by N, but also present due to carbon sources in the inputs used going through oxidation cycles.
@@ScienceinHydroponics Thanks for your response. It does work, but to your point, the timing differences makes it tricky beyond what most growers want to play with. If you're not limited to organic inputs (urea and amino acids), it is easier to do with ammonium sulfate and calcium nitrate. Dose ammonium sulfate when pH is >6.2 and dose calcium nitrate when pH
hi, this has been the best describtion about nutrient comparison from mineral vs organic sources I have ever found on TH-cam. Together with your other videos you blow my mind, thank you so much!
You are very welcome, messages like yours are always highly appreciated!
I absolutely love the videos you put out. Nothing but FACTS. May I make a request for a couple videos?
How about growing plants under LED lights, and the changes in nutrient requirements needed?
Also, hydroponic nutrients and coco coir and the specific elemental ppm breakdown of the feed needed?
I've read so much stuff about coco feeds needing lower potassium because it gives it off as it decomposes. Along with more calcium and magnesium to satisfy the CEC. But i think I'd trust the information so much more coming from you Daniel. Instead of forums where there is a lot of people giving out advice that shouldn't be. I appreciate the consideration and your time my friend!
Thanks a lot for your comment and support! Your suggestions are well received. I will consider them for future videos.
Hi, very interesting content. What about carbon uptake? Would it make any difference giving carbohydrates (sugars) to the plant together with the hydroponic nutrient? What about adding also humic/fulvic acids to the nutrients? And last but not least what is your opinion regarding the addition of algae? Thanks in advance for your kind response and keep up with your excellent job in explaining hydroponics. Bye from Italy.
Thanks for commenting! I made a video about carbon uptake in hydroponics which should answer some of your questions: th-cam.com/video/_JmgzjHAtDw/w-d-xo.html . About humic/fulvic acids, please read these posts I wrote on the subject scienceinhydroponics.com/2017/09/humic-acids-in-hydroponics.html, scienceinhydroponics.com/2021/04/the-value-of-fulvic-acid-in-hydroponics.html . About algae (kelp) please read this post scienceinhydroponics.com/2020/11/the-effect-of-seaweed-kelp-extracts-in-plants.html . I hope you find all this info useful!
In organic what should I keep my EC level for feeding? Any tips would be very much appreciated.
It depends, because in organics there are a lot of things that are in solution that do not conduct electricity. Keep your osmotic pressure at the equivalent of a 2.0mS/cm NaCl solution. This might be an EC of 0.5 or 1.5mS/cm, depending on how many non-conducting soluble substances you have. You can use an osmometer to measure osmotic pressure.
What about a mineral salt set up with organic acids, fungi, enzymatic bacteria, and nutrient fixing micros. Fertigated mineral salts and a tea that would get hose watered or separately fertigated once a week. Would it be pointless to use fungi and microbes because of the lower pH of the hydroponic solition??
The plants would do just fine. There will still be plenty of microbes, only that those that survive will be those that do better under lower pH values. This is often fine if you're providing the nitrate nitrogen directly, as the microbials that are most useful at a pH of 7 are the nitrifying bacteria, which aren't required by the plant if the nitrate is explicitly supplied.
However, it would be good to compare the results of doing this setup with a straight hydroponic setup using only raw salts, as it is often the case that an approach with only salts can provide results that are just as good, without the added complication of providing all those other inputs. In some cases these exogenous substances might provide some improvement, but this is by no means a guarantee. A biologically active setup can also be far worse performing than a purely salt based approach, depending on many factors, most importantly oxygen availability to roots (many microbials can deprive the root zone of oxygenation, so microbes don't come at no cost to the plant).
Thank you for the reply. I've had great results running mineral with added "biostimulants". I've had great results running sterile. Flavor seems to be better with some organic acids (I use a product called Mr Fulvic/AGT50) and some Bacillus, fungi, and mono silicic acid, and some enzymatic bacteria. The scale of operation would obviously be a factor for practicality's sake. What makes the flavor better? Idk. Am I Biased? Most likely.
If you wanna test some stuff, I've found great results with Southern Ag Garden Friendly Fungicide (Bacillus S.), Mr Fulvic/AGT50 (Fulvic +21 organic acids), an active pondzyme product (enzymatic bacteria), and just some recharge or any multi microbe/fungi/fuel combo. I irrigate separately from mineral so no issues arise from clogged dippers. It's fun.
I love your videos. Thank you for the contributions.
Can you make a recipe for making fertilizer for the growth period, pre-flowering and flowering of cannabis? Thank You
Thanks for commenting. I offer custom formulations only to my long term consulting clients.
thanks for putting this together, but I think there's some important ideas missing... decomposing protein to aminos to ammonia/ammonium is alkalizing (consumes 1 hydronium). nitrifying ammonia/ammonium to nitrite to nitrate is acidifying(produces 2 hydronium). plants taking up nitrate to create aminos is alkalizing (consume 1 hydronium). The full nitrogen cycle is pH neutral. When you add nitrogen in the form of protein, it's decomposed, then nitrified then assimilated back into protein in the plant, that's a complete nitrogen cycle and there's no pH change...it's going to stay 6.5 if your water source is that. It's going to stay 7.5 if your water source is that. If you had organic nutrient solution and add calcium nitrate as your nitrogen, the pH of the solution would go up and up. If you instead add urea (synthetic or urine) which operates like ammonia/ammonium the pH of the solution would continuously go down (until all carbonates are consumed and pH crashes and kills the microbiome). The microbiome doesn't want to buffer the solution from 6.5-7.5, it only does that because of where you started the nitrogen cycle. If there were a way to put nitrite(NO2) in the solution, it would alkalize like Nitrate (NO3), but at half the speed.
You can pH adjust an organic solution with "pH down" doser and a "pH up" doser, like how commercial operations automatically continuously monitor pH and dose as needed. Instead of phosphoric acid and potassium hydroxide in your dosers, you can have dissolved urea for pH down and hydrolyzed protein for pH up. When the pH is above 6.2, dose with urea. When the pH is below 6.2, dose with hydrolyzed protein. Each dose, whether its urea or hydrolyzed protein should have the same quantity of N, and should match the uptake of N by the plants in the system.
I have tried an approach to attempt to control pH with that idea in mind, it did not work well. At the pH required by the plants, the speed of these different processes is not the same and they do not adequately compensate for what the plant is doing in terms of plant uptake. Bear in mind that the changes in pH in an organic system are not only caused by N, but also present due to carbon sources in the inputs used going through oxidation cycles.
@@ScienceinHydroponics Thanks for your response. It does work, but to your point, the timing differences makes it tricky beyond what most growers want to play with. If you're not limited to organic inputs (urea and amino acids), it is easier to do with ammonium sulfate and calcium nitrate. Dose ammonium sulfate when pH is >6.2 and dose calcium nitrate when pH
Dr. Dan dropping truth bombs. The ScienceBros and OrganicBros are not happy... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sir
Please make video
How to control ph in indoor hydroponic
Thanks for commenting! I will consider that for a future video.
Sir please tell me what best pH down acid
are you colombian?
Yes
Liar liar, pants on fire