This is extremely true @ 19:20. Completely agree with this point. I had a bulging disc from a bad landing after a tackle in football at 15. I thought okay, my back hurts, let me try the trap bar.. I ended up herniating that same disc doing trap bar deadlifts. I remember feeling and hearing the pop in my low back. I couldn't believe it at the time, as I thought this was what you were supposed to do with a bad back, but now it's no surprise at all to me. Had I known better I would've been strengthening my core, glutes, and low back. I also strained my psoas doing trap bar deadlifts 2 years ago. Trap bar seems to beat me up but likely because I had some serious QL, oblique, TFL, hip imbalances that I've been working to correct for a while now.
People treat it as totally normal that "of course if you have a back injury you should just switch to a variation that allows you to lift even more weight with less ROM" Definitely don't lower the weight and try fixing the issue, that would be dangerous!
yeah you got hurt because of believing in "false safety" of the trap bar, not because trap bar itself is bad. Personally trap bar feels to me more like a squat than a deadlift. If you don't brace properly, any axially loaded movement will fuck you up.
I’m glad I read this comment since I’ve been eying the trap bar for a while but felt leery about it out of fear of injuring my back! I don’t have a back injury but I certainly don’t want one.
@@atlaspowershrugged oh yeah definitely especially sumo with my long ass arms but I just don’t care and as you perfectly said, it’s highly technical and need a shit ton of work for not much in bodybuilding. I would honestly rather pull hack style or Jefferson like I used too at least it’s fun
It isn't about whether you're tempted to throw people in jail for doing exercises you don't agree with or start religious conflicts for engagement and profit, because everyone is tempted by these things. Its what you ultimately choose to do that matters. 🙏
This reminds me of a very similar Reddit argument about how "if you don't compete in powerlifting there's no reason to squat a straight barbell instead of an SSB" as if the fact that your shoulders lack the mobility to rack a barbell isn't an issue.
I don't dislike the SSB because it is actually useful, but yeah, "its totally fine to just not be able to do regular human stuff without getting injured. Definitely don't actually try to fix your issue, that would be dangerous!"
But isnt that true tho? I dont think back squat have some inherent advantage aside from convinience...so why not? If i didnt have home gym with just a brabell i would probably change it for ssb...i imagine it would allow you to get more reps, since the positioning on the back isnt issue
I've spent countless hours trying to get conventional to work for me. Mobility work, different setups, working up from extremely light weight. I still end up with back pain and not working my musculature at all. With the trap bar I can fry my glutes, hams, and upper back and not have to worry about losing hours of sleep to back pain. Lifting's just a hobby for me so I don't see why I should slam my head against the wall some more when I have an option that does almost the same thing right in front of me.
True story which you can verify from the record books: One of my best friends who used to be my training partner was a super dedicated lifter, specifically deadlifter. One day I told him “hey you could probably do a ton of weight on the trap bar lol”. I always just saw it as a fun max out variation to do as a result of your other deadlift training for a party trick. Anyway fast forward a few months later and he sets the all time world record on it with 555kg. It was a good lift, it’s an ATWR afterall, but I feel like he let it satisfy him too much. He always wanted a world record, I guess that scratched his itch and now he sorta just dropped out of the gym and became a casual who I have to beg to come once a week. Much as I love hitting the occasional yolo pull on trap bar deads, I really think if it was more stigmatized maybe he’d actually be in the gym right now chasing bigger goals. So I’ve got a slight resentment towards it, even if I like it for a party trick.
I use a trap bar + stiff legged to give me another couple days to recover so I can go heavier on the next DL day. Honestly it works great if you treat it as squat accessory.
While I don’t agree about trap bar being worse, I don’t really do any pills from the floor and don’t care much about them, stigmas and feeling ashamed are very important. If you do wrong or act disgracefully you should feel shame and bad things should be stigmatized
Deficit low handle trap bar deadlifts can give you more range of motion than a straight bar, and even worse leverages. Therefore the straight bar is a cope. Checkmate....
must’ve never heard of a regular deficit deadlift, although you’ll hit the point where the bar touches plates. however, deficit deadlifts are imho better than any trapbar deadlift
I did trap bar deadlifts for a few months two years back. I eventually maxed it out (commercial gym so it was short) and started manning up and doing conventional deadlift. I never went back. Heavy deficit deadlift has helped my back and ankle mobility so much even though I'm still pretty weak at it.
my regular deadlift is 705lb, a couple of years ago i did 728lb on the trap bar on the low handles and going to attempt 750lb on trap bar soon so yes, can lift more on a trap bar
Perhaps a minor addition: When Rip says you can pull more with a barbell that with a trap bar, he probably means when you grab the handles at the level of the center of the plates. If you use the elevated handles, the reduction of the range of motion possibly more than makes up for the decreased stability and irreproducibility of the movement. Then you could pull more with a trap bar. I haven’t watched the Bromley-video yet. Perhaps he did mention this.
I pretty much agreed with every single thing Bromley said in his video, but I also really like your training philosophy, so I'm quite interested to hear what you have to say about this.
@@atlaspowershrugged I just finished watching, and yeah, I agree. I personally never use the trap bar because I'd feel like I was cheating. And it's better that way.
I don’t use it but I am thinking about incorporating it now. I see how it could help with both squats and deadlifts. Because you can load it up more than either deadlift or squat, using it to help with drive could help on both of those possibly. It is that odd in between motion of a squat and deadlift. I’m going to start doing it once a week with squats and deadlifts. Will report back.
@@atlaspowershrugged I was thinking along the lines of mentally feeling the body loaded up with more weight than either of the other two individually. Maybe training with more weight in the trap will allow for a little more push in the other two. I’m not talking about pushing my body to the very edge of its limits on the trap bar, but just loading it up to my deadlift one rep max and pull it for reps. Doing that once a week combined with two other deadlift days and the two squat days. It would be a supplemental for sure.
Very specific question unrelated to the video: What is your max for pullups? Also if you do them, what is your max for behind the head pullups? I have enjoyed your book so far. Alot of good insight.
I was able to get 19 at the top of my bulk this winter, dead hang. I've done a little more at lighter bws. Probably around 10 btn but haven't done them much. Glad you like it!
I'm perfectly happy using the relatively disadvantaged position of the conventional deadlift to increase my ability to pick things up. If I can deadlift a certain weight then I can be certain that I can trap bar deadlift more than that, so I don't need to do it. I do use the trap bar a lot for farmers walks however.
you can increase the ROM with the trap bar just by standing on plates. its silly to stigmatize specific lifting implements, they all exist for a reason. you can get more ROM benching with a cambered bar, does that mean everyone benching with a straight one is dumb? of course not. let people lift in peace
No, I will not let people lift in peace. But that .0001% who are using trap bars with a deficit to increase ROM instead of decrease it, I will leave in peace.
Sometimes I do low handle trap bar dead’s for sets of 5-7 off of a 2-4 inch deficit. I think there’s more use with that. It trains the posterior chain in a unique way and also my grip since I don’t need hook grip or straps since the knurling and the neutral grip of a trap bar are pretty conducive to holding heavy weights.
I think you couldve made a better/more useful video if you didnt focus on the stigmatizing but rather the point you were making in the second half of the video. You do make a good point and it is certainly applicable to other lifts as well like the bent over row. Instead of working on what limits you in the lift, overcoming it and harboring the benefits of a strong low back, strong spinal erectors and then putting on heaps of mass with the bent over row they go and do the seal/chest-supported row. That doesnt mean though that the seal row should be stigmatized as it can be a tremendous excericse. But people should be made aware that there is an opportunity cost connected to avoiding the bent over row. Coming from this point of view of course the entire topic then isnt about stigmatizing but rather critically analyzing your own programming to maximize certain benefits it can have on your life. Having said that stigmatizing is imo a ridiculous thing to do for something as recreational as lifting where in 99% of cases there really is no harm from doing a suboptimal exercise. Lets be real here, in most cases stigmatizing is mostly flexing the ego and imposing on other people what one perceives as *the right way*
I came in ready to disagree but after hearing your points, you're right. I always underestimate how foolish people can be. A deadlift is a deadlift. Weight is weight. Just because it's easiER to lift one way, with one piece of equipment, doesn't mean it's EASY, and therefor suitable for people with injuries or weakness. To be fair, I haven't trap bar deadlifted in months. Conventional and deficit deadlifts with a barbell are where it's at.
Why do you hate leg press? I don't do it because it makes my head feel like it's going to explode but if someone is able to get good knee flexion with it, isn't it a great low-back free quad exercise?
Great video! I have a trap bar but it doesn't have high handles. I use it for quads because I don't have a bench or squat rack at home so everything has to come off the floor. I also have a bar pad for zerchers. All my equipment has to fit in a closet. what do you think of low handle trap bar for quads if you keep your butt down? I also lift conventional DL..
Bromley is the next gen Rippetoe. He’s smarter, he’s more accomplished, he doesn’t assume he’s right about everything, but he does focus on practical improvements to training programs and the hard stuff you can’t avoid doing. Rip has zero business commenting on military physical fitness programs, he has no idea what they’re trying to do with this trap bar protocol, he’s just a salty old man who’s pissy because he wasn’t consulted.
Honestly, I wish you couldn't lift more weight with the trap bar because there probably are situational uses for training a more upright posture. Like I normally train low bar back squats but there were times where I could only train at a reasonable intensity with a front a squat (a squat with a more upright posture). But nobody is ever going to call me an ego lifter for front squatting because it's a lighter movement (and, you know, getting choked by the barbell doesn't scream "Too much ego").
Thanks old man for not calling the kids panzies. Or weaklings. Just call it a cope. I love that term now. I'm a weakling for sure and want to get better in all areas. It takes time. I'm almost ready to go to a gym and ask for help. Or i'll just buy your book ;) Some of these copes are because i'm too embarrassed to ask for a spot. That is related to these changes. Trap bar reduces injury potential? maybe. Leg press vs sqat is more safe. Gyms taking squat racks out. Stupid gyms they are and need to go away. But us amateur's need help working up to it. Shirt off is definitely stigmatized. I'm working on keeping it off when outside. The first time i did at night a drunk neighbor in his truck stopped and said "put a shirt on" " or not" and drove off. Keep up the good work with these discussions.
I did a trap bar deadlift maybe like 5 or 6 times. The handles are too wide so it feels awkward for me so I ditched it. That being that, I use it with clients because I can get them doing a hinge day one and it provides the benefits that those people need. That being said, I only deadlift like 4-6 times a year so I’m a DYEL cockroach and should be regarded as such.
I went to 6 gyms around my area trying to find the one I wanted to go to. In all of them I never saw one male doing any lower body exercise of any kind, much less squat and deadlift. There was always one girl doing leg/glute smith machine, but that’s it. I don’t think that leg press or any leg movement is stigmatized except maybe in certain hardcore gyms.
this trap bar deadlift thing is pretty sensitive. i commented this on Bromley's take down as well but i think rip is talking about possible load to to the make of most trap bars. as for the physics of the movement, i haven't heard a solid arugument against rip yet. he argues that with a trap bar since your standing "inside" the barbell the mechanics change in lifting the weight enough to alter the movement out of a deadlift. when the bar is in front of you more hip hinge is needed, making the deadlift a deadlift and not a reverse squat. that can be counteracted with training and focus however now you've made a deadlift more complicated. Its also worth noting that Louie Simmons hated trap bar deadlifts too. If you go back to some of the westside Q&A on youtube he says "get a coach and learn how to do a deadlift with a normal bar" or something to the effect. Dave Tate spoke about Trap bars at westside saying that Louie bought a couple one day and by the end of the day they were all in the dumpster. and all for the same reasons.
best use of the trap bar is farmers walks and ive tried everything i could think of doing with a trap bar edit: next best is a super high heel elevated squat using it with 25lbs plates so it cant hit the ground unless you drop it. just a squat that can be pushed to failure which is not necessarily unique.
@@atlaspowershruggedyeah i didnt like the deadlift itself. it feels really awkard because i WANT to hinge and the lockout feels all soft and weird because of the no body contact.
No disrespect to Alan Thrall but he isn't very accomplished in powerlifting, strongman or bodybuilding, let alone to be some end all authority. The points Atlas makes about general strength and hypertrophy are just correct, trap bar is worse for bodybuilding and development and you can find the same take from basically any advanced bodybuilder. The norm for recommendations is to train deadlifts until you are strong then RDLs/good mornings and power shrugs. If you only/preferentially train trap bar your hamstrings and spinal erectors will not be targeted well.
It's the exact same as if you did only pin press because benching (with shit form/bc your muscles are weak) hurts your shoulders. It's just worse for hypertrophy and strength development and can put you at even more risk of injury in the long run.
The biggest problem i see in TB use is the trainer totally replacing the standard deadlift with it. Second is using the lifted handles. My original TB did have the higher handle so you had to go to depth. Gérard didn't create the TB as a replacement, he created as a tool to be used in the off season to let the lower back rest. I used the TB well after I had established a decent conventional DL. I also never-ever maxed on the TB as a single. We'd often do 20 Rep TB Deads same as you'd use 20 Rep Squats...full depth & usually after calve, hamstring and leg extensions. We did this to extinguish some of the strength we'd otherwise fresh and we were looking for growth, the strength just followed. Soooo many ways to train and get results. What I noticed is that even after all these years using a TB, I still pull off the ground infront of my ankles, I just don't have to contend with my knees being in the way.
Trap bar to avoid injuries. They were talking about the Army deadlift test using trap bar. The Army uses a trap bar deadlift because it's easier to trade and has less injury potential
It’s actually easier to conventional deadlift because the bar path is set, with trap bar you have to be mindful to keep it on the hamstrings and same/similar starting position as conventional. Higher handles of course it’s easier so don’t. Lifting it from the center of mass with more knee bend it’s more quads less hamstrings. You can mimick conventional, you surely can do romanian deadlifts, you can row. If you can’t build muscle or strength with trap bar you can blame the bar a little bit but it’s mostly on the lifter what and how he chooses to do his thing with the trap bar. I use it cause my arms are not straight, can hold heavier weights only in neutral position without creating elbow pains.
It could be argued you will pick more things up in a neutral grip and farmers walk things than having to pick it up on a traditional deadlift stance. Of which the trap bar mimics. Everyone plays the mental gymnastics games. Just lift heavy things and have fun.
@@atlaspowershruggednah I’m actually the opposite my spines very flexible and I’ve got good leverages for zercher/ bad for conventional so I progress fast on zercher. Would you recommend I stay progressing on the zercher or spend most of my time on conventional which I have to do very low weight to get right?
I gave the trap bar a try for a time and just found them meh. I would rather do something like a conventional, block pulls, RDL. Never tried a Jefferson deadlift.
Hmm, is the argument that doing trap bar dl more dangerous to someone's body than not lifting at all? All im hearing is a reddit mentality dude bashing redditors while gatekeeping and telling me how strong he is. Unless i missed something. Ps i tried trap bar once and its definitely easier
Don't do trap bar! Look at what he says at 19:20. I've had a herniated disc. Compressing the spine with load that has little carry over to the structures you actually need to strengthen and heal is a bad idea.
With all do respect for mr Ripetoe, i wanna squat, deadlift, press overhead and bench with every damn speciality bar because every one of them has different filling and functionality oh and in any style sumo, conventional, Anderson, Zercher, farmer (trap bar 😉) Jefferson,Haak i dont remember if i forgot someone, and i like to overhead squat with my SSB log press with my Swiss bar hi bar back squat with my axel bar and bench with my trap bar besides the normal lifting styles of them, point is because something it isn't conventional doesn't mean is bad or wrong , remember one thing how many times you pick up a 🛋️ from ground in conventional style deadlift zero either sumo because hands is underhand you pick it tire flip style!😅end
@@atlaspowershrugged yes i agree but if you don't care for competition or you want some farmer style training i think the bar is very good tool anyway deadlift is not the only thing that those bars can do
@@atlaspowershrugged I do mostly machine/dumbbell work other than squats and forearms with a small bar. I follow a push legs pull 6 days a week 1 rest. For aesthetic purposes do you think it's worth investing in a barbell and mat for deadlifts? My feeling is that squats and deadlifts seem irreplaceable but bench press, overhead press, and rows can be substituted at least for natural aesthetics purposes. When i hear people get injured it's almost always from heavy squats or deadlifts. Would be interested in your experience.
This is extremely true @ 19:20. Completely agree with this point. I had a bulging disc from a bad landing after a tackle in football at 15. I thought okay, my back hurts, let me try the trap bar.. I ended up herniating that same disc doing trap bar deadlifts. I remember feeling and hearing the pop in my low back. I couldn't believe it at the time, as I thought this was what you were supposed to do with a bad back, but now it's no surprise at all to me. Had I known better I would've been strengthening my core, glutes, and low back. I also strained my psoas doing trap bar deadlifts 2 years ago. Trap bar seems to beat me up but likely because I had some serious QL, oblique, TFL, hip imbalances that I've been working to correct for a while now.
People treat it as totally normal that "of course if you have a back injury you should just switch to a variation that allows you to lift even more weight with less ROM" Definitely don't lower the weight and try fixing the issue, that would be dangerous!
yeah you got hurt because of believing in "false safety" of the trap bar, not because trap bar itself is bad. Personally trap bar feels to me more like a squat than a deadlift. If you don't brace properly, any axially loaded movement will fuck you up.
I’m glad I read this comment since I’ve been eying the trap bar for a while but felt leery about it out of fear of injuring my back! I don’t have a back injury but I certainly don’t want one.
I can play with 7 plates on trap bar pull, probably can’t pull 6 plates with a barbell. Case closed
You definitely could if you trained for it. Heavy deadlifts require practice, which is why I don't bother.
@@atlaspowershrugged oh yeah definitely especially sumo with my long ass arms but I just don’t care and as you perfectly said, it’s highly technical and need a shit ton of work for not much in bodybuilding. I would honestly rather pull hack style or Jefferson like I used too at least it’s fun
Nasseei
"trap" bar yeah sounds about the average redditors deadlift of choice
Noice. 2016 comments from the chads of yesteryear. That trap bar probly identifies as an attack helicopter.
I think it is considering DeadliestLift was their General during the Bromley/Redditor wars of whenever he did program reviews
Ironically the most reddit sounding comment here lol
Progresssively overloading your contrarianism to achieve disagreeability gains (as in big 5 trait)... very compelling stuff. Great video brother
It isn't about whether you're tempted to throw people in jail for doing exercises you don't agree with or start religious conflicts for engagement and profit, because everyone is tempted by these things. Its what you ultimately choose to do that matters. 🙏
Profile pic lends pro-am credibility to that statement.
@@atlaspowershrugged Those who have the fortitude to throw people in jail for exercising incorrectly BUT choose not to will inherit the earth.
Billions must conventional deadlift.
This reminds me of a very similar Reddit argument about how "if you don't compete in powerlifting there's no reason to squat a straight barbell instead of an SSB" as if the fact that your shoulders lack the mobility to rack a barbell isn't an issue.
I don't dislike the SSB because it is actually useful, but yeah, "its totally fine to just not be able to do regular human stuff without getting injured. Definitely don't actually try to fix your issue, that would be dangerous!"
But isnt that true tho? I dont think back squat have some inherent advantage aside from convinience...so why not? If i didnt have home gym with just a brabell i would probably change it for ssb...i imagine it would allow you to get more reps, since the positioning on the back isnt issue
@@watsonkushmaster3067 Most SSBs are more like a front squat, but I see your point.
@@BuJammy yeah but thats even worse for holding the position
Divorced two times = loser
Divorced five times = baller
Fair
I've spent countless hours trying to get conventional to work for me. Mobility work, different setups, working up from extremely light weight. I still end up with back pain and not working my musculature at all. With the trap bar I can fry my glutes, hams, and upper back and not have to worry about losing hours of sleep to back pain. Lifting's just a hobby for me so I don't see why I should slam my head against the wall some more when I have an option that does almost the same thing right in front of me.
Fuck pulling from the floor, I’m rack maxxing
True story which you can verify from the record books:
One of my best friends who used to be my training partner was a super dedicated lifter, specifically deadlifter. One day I told him “hey you could probably do a ton of weight on the trap bar lol”. I always just saw it as a fun max out variation to do as a result of your other deadlift training for a party trick. Anyway fast forward a few months later and he sets the all time world record on it with 555kg. It was a good lift, it’s an ATWR afterall, but I feel like he let it satisfy him too much. He always wanted a world record, I guess that scratched his itch and now he sorta just dropped out of the gym and became a casual who I have to beg to come once a week.
Much as I love hitting the occasional yolo pull on trap bar deads, I really think if it was more stigmatized maybe he’d actually be in the gym right now chasing bigger goals. So I’ve got a slight resentment towards it, even if I like it for a party trick.
The most unbelievable part of this is that someone was able to fit 555 kg on a trap bar.
Edit. I looked it up, apparently that is the world record.
@@atlaspowershrugged im forcing him out to the gym today i need this guy to pull 500kg on a barbell ffs
I was Soy enough to switch to the trap bar because normal deadlift was too hard.
Eww brother...
Was is a strong word in this sentence.
I use a trap bar + stiff legged to give me another couple days to recover so I can go heavier on the next DL day. Honestly it works great if you treat it as squat accessory.
Trap bar shrugs are the absolute best thing ever, tho
I prefer low and high handle trap bar deads over conventional simply out of enjoyment, whats the point of going to the gym if its not fun?
Ahh, you’ve activated my Trap card!
😂
Hey Atlas I bought your book and am really enjoying it. I bet Rip would shit on every single exercise in though lol.
I'm glad you're enjoying it! And I'm sure he would, but he's fat and I'm jacked so I'm not worried about that particular battle.
i like that you spent like 2 min explaining why you wouldn't agree to straight send to Jail anyone using a leg-press
I feel like it's worth weighing the pros and cons
While I don’t agree about trap bar being worse, I don’t really do any pills from the floor and don’t care much about them, stigmas and feeling ashamed are very important. If you do wrong or act disgracefully you should feel shame and bad things should be stigmatized
👊
Deficit low handle trap bar deadlifts can give you more range of motion than a straight bar, and even worse leverages. Therefore the straight bar is a cope. Checkmate....
must’ve never heard of a regular deficit deadlift, although you’ll hit the point where the bar touches plates. however, deficit deadlifts are imho better than any trapbar deadlift
Yeah, everyone seems to ignore that one an low handle in general.
I did trap bar deadlifts for a few months two years back. I eventually maxed it out (commercial gym so it was short) and started manning up and doing conventional deadlift. I never went back. Heavy deficit deadlift has helped my back and ankle mobility so much even though I'm still pretty weak at it.
my regular deadlift is 705lb, a couple of years ago i did 728lb on the trap bar on the low handles and going to attempt 750lb on trap bar soon so yes, can lift more on a trap bar
What happened to the pullover debate?
I don't do trap bar because someone stole the trap bar from my gym and the owner never got a new one
Perhaps a minor addition:
When Rip says you can pull more with a barbell that with a trap bar, he probably means when you grab the handles at the level of the center of the plates. If you use the elevated handles, the reduction of the range of motion possibly more than makes up for the decreased stability and irreproducibility of the movement. Then you could pull more with a trap bar.
I haven’t watched the Bromley-video yet. Perhaps he did mention this.
I pretty much agreed with every single thing Bromley said in his video, but I also really like your training philosophy, so I'm quite interested to hear what you have to say about this.
He was right about everything... ...except how it is used in the majority of cases
@@atlaspowershrugged I just finished watching, and yeah, I agree. I personally never use the trap bar because I'd feel like I was cheating. And it's better that way.
I like Mark. He got me started in the strength and oly lifts. Dont follow any of his advice anymore.
Agreed. I like him. I definitely don't lift remotely in any way that he advocates. Except for powershrugs although I don't do them the way he says.
I like to use it from time to time just for fun and variety. Same as with random machines like leg press.
Mark Rippetoe vs Jeff Nippard. Who would win in a fight?
Ripp easy.
I'm pretty sure Mark keeps a strap on him at all times, so...
Jeff would be too busy analysing the scientific data of fighters so find the most optimal fighting stance
I don’t use it but I am thinking about incorporating it now. I see how it could help with both squats and deadlifts. Because you can load it up more than either deadlift or squat, using it to help with drive could help on both of those possibly. It is that odd in between motion of a squat and deadlift. I’m going to start doing it once a week with squats and deadlifts. Will report back.
Do you really need to load up that much though?
@@atlaspowershrugged I was thinking along the lines of mentally feeling the body loaded up with more weight than either of the other two individually. Maybe training with more weight in the trap will allow for a little more push in the other two. I’m not talking about pushing my body to the very edge of its limits on the trap bar, but just loading it up to my deadlift one rep max and pull it for reps. Doing that once a week combined with two other deadlift days and the two squat days. It would be a supplemental for sure.
Very specific question unrelated to the video: What is your max for pullups? Also if you do them, what is your max for behind the head pullups?
I have enjoyed your book so far. Alot of good insight.
I was able to get 19 at the top of my bulk this winter, dead hang. I've done a little more at lighter bws. Probably around 10 btn but haven't done them much. Glad you like it!
I'm perfectly happy using the relatively disadvantaged position of the conventional deadlift to increase my ability to pick things up. If I can deadlift a certain weight then I can be certain that I can trap bar deadlift more than that, so I don't need to do it. I do use the trap bar a lot for farmers walks however.
Sumo should be stigmatized much more than trap bar deadlifts
At least sumo helps with hip mobility
Its a Trap !!! (Bar)
you can increase the ROM with the trap bar just by standing on plates. its silly to stigmatize specific lifting implements, they all exist for a reason. you can get more ROM benching with a cambered bar, does that mean everyone benching with a straight one is dumb? of course not. let people lift in peace
No, I will not let people lift in peace. But that .0001% who are using trap bars with a deficit to increase ROM instead of decrease it, I will leave in peace.
No justice, no peace.
Sometimes I do low handle trap bar dead’s for sets of 5-7 off of a 2-4 inch deficit. I think there’s more use with that. It trains the posterior chain in a unique way and also my grip since I don’t need hook grip or straps since the knurling and the neutral grip of a trap bar are pretty conducive to holding heavy weights.
I think you couldve made a better/more useful video if you didnt focus on the stigmatizing but rather the point you were making in the second half of the video.
You do make a good point and it is certainly applicable to other lifts as well like the bent over row. Instead of working on what limits you in the lift, overcoming it and harboring the benefits of a strong low back, strong spinal erectors and then putting on heaps of mass with the bent over row they go and do the seal/chest-supported row. That doesnt mean though that the seal row should be stigmatized as it can be a tremendous excericse. But people should be made aware that there is an opportunity cost connected to avoiding the bent over row.
Coming from this point of view of course the entire topic then isnt about stigmatizing but rather critically analyzing your own programming to maximize certain benefits it can have on your life.
Having said that stigmatizing is imo a ridiculous thing to do for something as recreational as lifting where in 99% of cases there really is no harm from doing a suboptimal exercise. Lets be real here, in most cases stigmatizing is mostly flexing the ego and imposing on other people what one perceives as *the right way*
I came in ready to disagree but after hearing your points, you're right. I always underestimate how foolish people can be. A deadlift is a deadlift. Weight is weight. Just because it's easiER to lift one way, with one piece of equipment, doesn't mean it's EASY, and therefor suitable for people with injuries or weakness. To be fair, I haven't trap bar deadlifted in months. Conventional and deficit deadlifts with a barbell are where it's at.
Why do you hate leg press? I don't do it because it makes my head feel like it's going to explode but if someone is able to get good knee flexion with it, isn't it a great low-back free quad exercise?
Maybe im a nuance case but trap bars feel alot better on my back when i have a tweak. Means i can still deadlift
I bought a high bar trap bar after i had a car accident to take some of the stress off my back. I dont use it much, though.
Great video! I have a trap bar but it doesn't have high handles. I use it for quads because I don't have a bench or squat rack at home so everything has to come off the floor. I also have a bar pad for zerchers. All my equipment has to fit in a closet. what do you think of low handle trap bar for quads if you keep your butt down? I also lift conventional DL..
Thanks for explaining what stigmatization is for 9 minutes
Bromley is the next gen Rippetoe. He’s smarter, he’s more accomplished, he doesn’t assume he’s right about everything, but he does focus on practical improvements to training programs and the hard stuff you can’t avoid doing. Rip has zero business commenting on military physical fitness programs, he has no idea what they’re trying to do with this trap bar protocol, he’s just a salty old man who’s pissy because he wasn’t consulted.
I'm not really sure I get the comparison. What about Bromley makes him the next gen Rip?
"more accomplished"? In what?
@@BuJammy in lifting? He's an accomplished strongman
What has Rip done? Except hang around Bill Starr and steal all his ideas
We all know it’s because trap bars were invented in the 1980s and atlas only does lifts from the 1880s
The guys at my gym that train the heavy compounds half rep or quarter rep low bar squats with 3-4 plates and sumo deadlift everything
Honestly, I wish you couldn't lift more weight with the trap bar because there probably are situational uses for training a more upright posture. Like I normally train low bar back squats but there were times where I could only train at a reasonable intensity with a front a squat (a squat with a more upright posture). But nobody is ever going to call me an ego lifter for front squatting because it's a lighter movement (and, you know, getting choked by the barbell doesn't scream "Too much ego").
Thanks old man for not calling the kids panzies. Or weaklings. Just call it a cope. I love that term now. I'm a weakling for sure and want to get better in all areas. It takes time. I'm almost ready to go to a gym and ask for help. Or i'll just buy your book ;)
Some of these copes are because i'm too embarrassed to ask for a spot. That is related to these changes. Trap bar reduces injury potential? maybe. Leg press vs sqat is more safe. Gyms taking squat racks out. Stupid gyms they are and need to go away. But us amateur's need help working up to it.
Shirt off is definitely stigmatized. I'm working on keeping it off when outside. The first time i did at night a drunk neighbor in his truck stopped and said "put a shirt on" " or not" and drove off.
Keep up the good work with these discussions.
How tall are you?
Last time I touched a trap bar was back in my early 20's when I was liberal. Haven't gone near one since.
Nice!
I did a trap bar deadlift maybe like 5 or 6 times. The handles are too wide so it feels awkward for me so I ditched it. That being that, I use it with clients because I can get them doing a hinge day one and it provides the benefits that those people need.
That being said, I only deadlift like 4-6 times a year so I’m a DYEL cockroach and should be regarded as such.
I went to 6 gyms around my area trying to find the one I wanted to go to. In all of them I never saw one male doing any lower body exercise of any kind, much less squat and deadlift. There was always one girl doing leg/glute smith machine, but that’s it. I don’t think that leg press or any leg movement is stigmatized except maybe in certain hardcore gyms.
this trap bar deadlift thing is pretty sensitive. i commented this on Bromley's take down as well but i think rip is talking about possible load to to the make of most trap bars. as for the physics of the movement, i haven't heard a solid arugument against rip yet. he argues that with a trap bar since your standing "inside" the barbell the mechanics change in lifting the weight enough to alter the movement out of a deadlift. when the bar is in front of you more hip hinge is needed, making the deadlift a deadlift and not a reverse squat. that can be counteracted with training and focus however now you've made a deadlift more complicated.
Its also worth noting that Louie Simmons hated trap bar deadlifts too. If you go back to some of the westside Q&A on youtube he says "get a coach and learn how to do a deadlift with a normal bar" or something to the effect. Dave Tate spoke about Trap bars at westside saying that Louie bought a couple one day and by the end of the day they were all in the dumpster. and all for the same reasons.
best use of the trap bar is farmers walks and ive tried everything i could think of doing with a trap bar
edit: next best is a super high heel elevated squat using it with 25lbs plates so it cant hit the ground unless you drop it. just a squat that can be pushed to failure which is not necessarily unique.
Fair. I'm only taking about using it as a deadlift substitute here
@@atlaspowershruggedyeah i didnt like the deadlift itself. it feels really awkard because i WANT to hinge and the lockout feels all soft and weird because of the no body contact.
I’ve tried those heel elevated trap bar squats before. They really target the quad.
If you have an open one it’s good for camber bar squats/good mornings and single leg work
Good for you on taking time to make this video. Point made in 10 minutes. I enjoy the cerebral onion peeling though.
RIppetoe is the hometown religious fundy and we all need to come back to Jesus.
How did you nail to write his accent lmao
Also nah, the trap bar works
Hip draihve
makes u stronger, is enjoyable and feels great though.
trap bar is best tool for humans who train alone for person like me starts in 30s age the workout and with skeleton issues and no great anatomy
Alan Thrall said they're ok to do if you're not a powerlifter. Case closed.
No disrespect to Alan Thrall but he isn't very accomplished in powerlifting, strongman or bodybuilding, let alone to be some end all authority. The points Atlas makes about general strength and hypertrophy are just correct, trap bar is worse for bodybuilding and development and you can find the same take from basically any advanced bodybuilder. The norm for recommendations is to train deadlifts until you are strong then RDLs/good mornings and power shrugs.
If you only/preferentially train trap bar your hamstrings and spinal erectors will not be targeted well.
It's the exact same as if you did only pin press because benching (with shit form/bc your muscles are weak) hurts your shoulders. It's just worse for hypertrophy and strength development and can put you at even more risk of injury in the long run.
Should go look and find the story behind the reason Gerard created the trap bar.
Doubling down on short ROM more weight because emphasising weight over ROM already worked so well!
The biggest problem i see in TB use is the trainer totally replacing the standard deadlift with it. Second is using the lifted handles. My original TB did have the higher handle so you had to go to depth.
Gérard didn't create the TB as a replacement, he created as a tool to be used in the off season to let the lower back rest.
I used the TB well after I had established a decent conventional DL.
I also never-ever maxed on the TB as a single. We'd often do 20 Rep TB Deads same as you'd use 20 Rep Squats...full depth & usually after calve, hamstring and leg extensions. We did this to extinguish some of the strength we'd otherwise fresh and we were looking for growth, the strength just followed.
Soooo many ways to train and get results.
What I noticed is that even after all these years using a TB, I still pull off the ground infront of my ankles, I just don't have to contend with my knees being in the way.
Trap bar to avoid injuries. They were talking about the Army deadlift test using trap bar. The Army uses a trap bar deadlift because it's easier to trade and has less injury potential
It’s actually easier to conventional deadlift because the bar path is set, with trap bar you have to be mindful to keep it on the hamstrings and same/similar starting position as conventional. Higher handles of course it’s easier so don’t. Lifting it from the center of mass with more knee bend it’s more quads less hamstrings. You can mimick conventional, you surely can do romanian deadlifts, you can row. If you can’t build muscle or strength with trap bar you can blame the bar a little bit but it’s mostly on the lifter what and how he chooses to do his thing with the trap bar. I use it cause my arms are not straight, can hold heavier weights only in neutral position without creating elbow pains.
How often is the center of mass of the implement in real life going to be inside your own body but also on the ground? Basically never.
It could be argued you will pick more things up in a neutral grip and farmers walk things than having to pick it up on a traditional deadlift stance. Of which the trap bar mimics. Everyone plays the mental gymnastics games. Just lift heavy things and have fun.
Car deadlift is the superior neutral grip deadlift
What about the barbell leg press?
Yes.
Would you say a zercher deadlift is superior?
It's probably too advanced for anyone using a trap bar "because they have a bad back." In this case anything light with some rom would work
@@atlaspowershruggednah I’m actually the opposite my spines very flexible and I’ve got good leverages for zercher/ bad for conventional so I progress fast on zercher. Would you recommend I stay progressing on the zercher or spend most of my time on conventional which I have to do very low weight to get right?
I gave the trap bar a try for a time and just found them meh. I would rather do something like a conventional, block pulls, RDL. Never tried a Jefferson deadlift.
I don’t like trap bar, it always feels unnatural to my biomechanics compared to a straight bar.
Watching Rip's coaching videos taught me how to squat to depth correctly, I like the grumpy old man. Bromley is right though.
Agreed
Powershrugs on a trap bar?
Barbells actually make the line of pull a little more favorable for traps.
Hmm, is the argument that doing trap bar dl more dangerous to someone's body than not lifting at all?
All im hearing is a reddit mentality dude bashing redditors while gatekeeping and telling me how strong he is. Unless i missed something.
Ps i tried trap bar once and its definitely easier
What if you have a herniated disc?
Talk to your pt and have them get you doing something useful.
Don't do trap bar! Look at what he says at 19:20. I've had a herniated disc. Compressing the spine with load that has little carry over to the structures you actually need to strengthen and heal is a bad idea.
@@atlaspowershruggedI do mostly penitentiary routines that I learned being troubled youth, I don't have a pt.
@@jasonashley4579 Then ask your parole officer.
Duh.
@@BuJammy will do, ULTRA MAGA Jammy.
What do you guys think about trap bar deadlift for tall guys (1,96m) with really long legs?
Do you have long arms? If yes, then you don't need a trap bar. Conventional Deadlift is the lift for you.
You mean like professional strongman competitors?
APS feels about trap bars the same way Bill Clinton felt about abortion.
Cool
Rippetoe is Nietzschean
The trap bar is great for athletes and just trying to get people into the weight room and not have to teach them loads of techniques
Zercher trap bar deadlifts are alpha though
More based than last time
With all do respect for mr Ripetoe, i wanna squat, deadlift, press overhead and bench with every damn speciality bar because every one of them has different filling and functionality oh and in any style sumo, conventional, Anderson, Zercher, farmer (trap bar 😉) Jefferson,Haak i dont remember if i forgot someone, and i like to overhead squat with my SSB log press with my Swiss bar hi bar back squat with my axel bar and bench with my trap bar besides the normal lifting styles of them, point is because something it isn't conventional doesn't mean is bad or wrong , remember one thing how many times you pick up a 🛋️ from ground in conventional style deadlift zero either sumo because hands is underhand you pick it tire flip style!😅end
I like the overall sentiment. But trap bars are kind of like leg presses in that they give people a way out of doing what they should be doing.
@@atlaspowershrugged yes i agree but if you don't care for competition or you want some farmer style training i think the bar is very good tool anyway deadlift is not the only thing that those bars can do
@@atlaspowershrugged I do mostly machine/dumbbell work other than squats and forearms with a small bar. I follow a push legs pull 6 days a week 1 rest. For aesthetic purposes do you think it's worth investing in a barbell and mat for deadlifts? My feeling is that squats and deadlifts seem irreplaceable but bench press, overhead press, and rows can be substituted at least for natural aesthetics purposes. When i hear people get injured it's almost always from heavy squats or deadlifts. Would be interested in your experience.
Hyip drahve for fahve
First because cope
Comment for Algo.
More like crap bar deadlift