I kind of agree with their initial idea, but it's true that on road trip it means you would have to wait for hours to recharge, even with the smallish 40kWh pack, and I do intend to use my Aptera, occasionally, as a road trip vehicle, so a fast charger is kind of a must, even if it doesn't need to be the fastest ever.
I agree that DCFC is a must for the 400 mile version. However that becomes more unnecessary once one considers the 1000 Mile version. But I get it. The number one issue for ev owners is range. Regardless of Real world experience, range is extremely important. My Tesla model 3 in five years has gone from 310 EPA miles or 290 real world miles at 65mph in summer 85ish degrees to 260 real world miles, same conditions. Trust me, even with these numbers I obsess in how much range I have and when I need to charge. Right now I am traveling and my car is at the airport. I am stressed about how much range I will find when I get back. So yes, I will want a car that charges from the sun, has at least a 600 mile range (500 real world) and can fast charge in a pinch.
@@scottmcshannon6821 400 miles at 65mph is 6.5hrs on the road. I'm comfortable with 10-12 hours on the road and I regularly do 14 hours, but those last 2 hours are tough. My Prius C can keep up, a Tesla could keep up and an Aptera with DCFC could keep up. I want an EV, I can't afford a Tesla and if Aptera can'd do DCFC there are much cheaper cars out there that would get me farther in a day, like a Chevy Bolt or Hyundai Kona.
Agreed. The Aptera is by no means a car just to commute 30 or 40km a day. With a cW of 0.13 it is predestined for longest road trips at max. speed and therefore fast charging is a must have to my opinion or else it doesn't make sense at all.
That's not my impression either but a truck load of unhappy campers for sure. Even those of us that aren't taking one of these first 5,000 units complained.
@@wyattnoise My first reaction to the news that they would not include DCFC, was oh no, they aren't going to make it. The ability to fast charge makes the vehicle much more valuable, allowing them to sell them for more, and increases the number of people willing to consider buying it several times over. I think the Aptera is comparable in practically to a sports car, except that it should be much cheaper to operate and won't rust.
We were ready to cancel our reservation this weekend. I’m glad we didn’t. Of course this will be a vehicle for us to mainly use around the Phoenix metropolitan area however, there are some really beautiful drives. We were hoping to take this on. I think they could have spent this a different way on Friday and said that her at lunch they would be the first car to offer the equivalent of level two charging on a level one plug. I personally believe we need more level to charging more than we need more level three charging. I would love to see every rest stop outfitted with 5 to 10 level two charging stations both for emergencies but also as a way to get more people to visit national parks and spend more time on the great American road trip.
I hope Aptera does well - they seem like good people with intelligent ideas. They're allowed a few minor stumbles along the way. BTW, I hope that they don't take Saudi money.
I don't think they get to pick and choose what money they take. They aren't about to give control up of the company and they are manufacturing in the US so this would be a good company to have off the ground (at least for USA).
For a company that makes efficiency the center point of their whole mission, the decision to try and gut DCFC was a pretty confusing one. Being able to charge up quickly is part of what makes an electric car efficient. Range and aero are cool, but so is topping off as quickly as possible. All three make traveling more efficient.
Exactly. There are really only 2 benefits to high efficiency, and neither of them are low cost of home charging. Ha. Edit ok 3: low weight per range, high potential charging speed In mph, long range
@@bob15479 Efficiency is definitely a cost factor for home charging? If you have a vehicle that does between 8 - 10m/kWh v a vehicle that does between 3-4m'kWh the former vehicle costs less than half in electricity to go the same number of miles. Wherever you charge.
@@mondotv4216 it’s half of very little. It’s not worth paying much more for the vehicle, that’s my point. My friend does 1000 miles a month on his Bolt and it costs $27 in electricity. So an Aptera would be like $13. Big whoop.
First visit, you are pretty and pleasant. Nice presentation. Pissed I'm unable to determine the rest of the T-shirt, like a book missing it's last page. Oh well. Subbed
The Tesla Supercharger network isn't the only DC fast charging option for NACS (North American Charging Standard) equipped vehicles. EVgo stations are being installed that are also equipped with 50 kW NACS cables in addition to the more common CHAdeMO and CCS cable combinations. So there is no need to wait for a confirmed agreement with Tesla for use of the Supercharger network to justify including the DC fast charging capability.
I couldn't agree more! I was going to cancel my reservation when no fast charging would be available. It's so refreshing to hear of a company that listens to it's buyers! I wanted to be able to take off for parts unknown without being tethered to a long charge NOW I can according to Aptera. Great Video
I was ok with the launch edition not including DCFC, but I realize other people found that important. I just hope it doesn't negatively impact their production timeline.
Yeah, as she said, the research shows that the vast majority of Americans drive less than 40 miles per day. A level 2 charging station at home can recharge the battery in less than an hour since it charges the car at 57 miles per hour. Thus, DCFC isn't really needed, but people believe the need it anyway because most commercial recharge stations are DCFC. I was fine not having DCFC, but others were very upset about their initial decision. Further, I think that traveling long distances in the Aptera would be uncomfortable, so why bother with that?
@@DirkWrightxyz For my use case, if I am going somewhere by myself for work and it is more than 300 miles then I am going to fly, but if I take my family then I need a bigger car anyway, so I can’t even think of a situation where I might need a fast charger. I am perfectly content to just use L1 charging overnight on the occasion I need to charge it.
@@DirkWrightxyz Like most other people, 95% of my driving is fairly local. But, in North America there are still a lot of places with little to no CCS DCFC, making Tesla SuperChargers the best way to go long distances. I'm interested in the Aptera because I make a few 14 hour long drives a year without stopping overnight and an Aptera with 100-mile per 10-min DCFC on the Tesla SuperCharger network will get me there with no major change in my driving behavior. If Aptera was only offering AC charging and I had to stop for hours to recharge, I'm better off getting a Chevy Bolt, which I can find new for $16k-$20k after Federal, state and utility incentives. If I'm really frugal and plan ahead I can probably get a used Nissan Leaf for $10k and rent cars to take my long trips. I'm willing to pay a premium for the Aptera because its new technology I want to support, will save money on charging over time and is the best road-trip alternative to a much more expensive Tesla. Take away the road trip ability and I feel there are better alternatives.
I already have a volt, I can tell you that the “40 miles” figure only really works if you live in the “metro-core” and indeed when I lived in the LA metro core then yes I could get around 90% of my travel done without gasoline. Fast forward to pandemic, fast forward to stimulus induced inflation, and the housing market in LA is toxically overpriced. So I moved an hour out, now my work commute is 120 miles round trip. I could just buy a model 3 or wait for the mode 2. Easy decision. But I specifically decided to play the long game and go for a 1,000 mile Aptera. So I’m waiting for a vehicle that might never be produced, but if it is produced then it had better have DC fast charging, else I’m done with it. I’ve already experienced slow charging for 2 years and no thank you.
I forgot that this vehicle existed for awhile. Now that I’ve looked more into it, I like it. I’m quite interested to see what else they come up with if this goes well.
Yeah, I already have my "ultra-efficient compact city EV without DC" in my Arcimoto FUV. My Aptera reservation was assuming it would be "like Arcimoto - but for road trips" (it's *SIGNIFICANTLY* larger) so the remove of DC was going to be a dealkiller. Glad they put it back.
I find "North American Charging Standard" hilarious. I hope Aptera adopting what has, until very recently, been a Tesla proprietary standard works well for them.
I'm a BIG FAN of simplicity and keeping to the basic necessities, but Some features are just necessary for one or more reason, despite the additional complexity.
Great video! Impartial assessment professionally done, which is why I subscribe. So few TH-camrs actually do that, thank you! I am a reservation holder too. I doubt I would need fast charging, but the option in a pinch is highly desirable. Respect to Aptera for listening and changing direction, gives me greater confidence in them as a company. I can also see the benefits to Aptera for the reasons you say. I too am concerned about them raising the money, but optimistic about their applying for the federal loan.
I, like you, have my money down and am a reservation holder. When I saw Live broadcast I let them have with both barrels, as they say. I was ready to cancel my reservation but like many things of late it slipped my mind for a couple of days. It appears that is a good thing. The model they outlined was very near what I specked out. By going to that model, if and when they start production they saved me $5K dollars. That said, because of the price decreases at Tesla and the rebates I specked out a entry level Model3 with the rebate it comes to $1,000 more that the Aptera I specked. Only $1k more for the rear wheel drive Tesla, I'm still considering it.
Remember that the ongoing operating costs over time will still be far higher for the Tesla. It might partially depend on how often you would need the extra seats, or if you ever might wish to sleep in the back for camping.
400mi range in winter may become 200miles, ie cold soak battery in between errands. what about elevation? what about V2L? DCFC is needed but could be added for a price vs not at all.
Please help lobby congress: The EV Tax Credit should be allowed to be spaced out over two or more years for those individuals whose yearly income is not sufficient to qualify for the full benefit. If the goal of this tax credit is to encourage the maximum number of people to buy electric vehicles it makes NO sense to structure it so that those who need it the most will benefit the least from it. As it is written only high earning individuals, but not too high (over $150,000 for a single tax filer), get this full benefit. This is an important economic justice issue IMHO. Our tax code should not be structured so it blatantly rewards wealthier individuals at the expense of lower income earners. A simple fairness issue, no? While we are looking for some EV Tax Credit justice here, we also should be lobbying for future Aptera buyers to be eligible for the full benefit too. We should be encouraging people to buy this most efficient and greenest of vehicles as this ‘auto cycle’ will operate in every way like a car. Its longest range version after all allows two passengers and their pets to travel 1,000 miles on a single charge. That is significantly further than any other qualifying EV is achieving. This most American of companies with over 40,000 initial reservations should be incentivized to source their future batteries according to the IRA’s guidelines, just as the car companies are. And finally - an EV Tax Credit hack for those who have money saved in a traditional IRA (403B, …) but have lower annual incomes that do not allow them to receive the full $7,500 credit: You can create taxable income by rolling over money from this retirement asset into a Roth IRA, that can then grow tax free and allow you to withdraw it tax free later. There is not currently a limit on how much you can roll over once a year, but you do need to wait 5 years before withdrawing it without a penalty. So while waiting out those 5 or more years to withdraw these Roth IRA monies why not invest them in companies that are pretty sure to be growing healthily over the next 5 to 10 years, like EV or renewable energy stocks, mutuals, or ETF’s! Invest in your values so that this money can help further transform our economy into one with a cleaner, greener, safer, healthier and more sustainable future!
The fact that Aptera is using the NACS only really makes sense if they were using the DCFC. That's the whole point of using Telsa's charging network. Like everyone else - I was very surprised that they left DCFC out originally, and I had to think long and hard about it. I already have a $100 deposit, and I had just changed from the 600 mile to the 400 mile battery option. I am hoping to use my Aptera for my business - by delivering my MLTL-6 audio speakers directly to customers; rather than paying nearly $500 for shipping, and risking damage to them. And like everyone - I was greatly relieved to see their announcement that they would in fact be including DCFC (40-60kW estimated rate) on the Launch Edition. I did change my reservation to a Launch Edition, and I have purchased 100 shares of Aptera stock.
I agree, and I think they could have mitigated this by supporting 12-15kW of Level 2 charging, which is available through Tesla HWPC AKA Destination Chargers. That would have at least reduced charging times in many situations to just 2-3 hours. But, at 40-60kW, I’m a happy reservation holder now, adding to my preference for its efficiency and repairability intent.
@@BrianTRice77 Right - I would like having 10kW Level 2, at least. And depending on what is the limiting factor for their DCFC in the Launch Edition, it *may* be able to maintain 40-60kW for a longer portion of the time? I agree with you on the reasons I like Aptera - we need as efficient energy use as possible, and we must have full right to repair.
As a fellow reservation holder, small stock holder, and volunteer brand ambassador for Aptera, I want to extend my personal thanks. It will take all of us working together to get our vehicles produced, and aside from our personal needs, this is a good thing for the world.
I shifted to the Aptera Launch Edition because I have limited time and because staff said DCFC would happen and be available "soon". Their rapid shift was a welcome surprise, but fundamentally I had believed in the company. I also believe in their ability to find money and am hoping the Friday shareholders webinar will have news. Success as a startup, especially a car startup, is statistically unlikely, but if Aptera fails, other car startups will not get funding either, especially considering the modesty of the Aptera ask.
Aptera in my eyes has become the premier vehicle with 40-60kw charging. Equivalent to fastest charging cars out there per mile basis. Smallest battery so great for economy and environment. Practical solar roof. You should do the Alaska road trip to show how much faster aptera is for being so efficient
Since Tesla chargers are the only practical ones, I expect to use them on a long trip. The quickest possible charge is merely insurance, even though I am probably not ever going to use it. The biggest asset of Aptera, besides being the most efficient transport ever, is built in solar charging. That is a "must".
I think raising another 50 million through private investment is far better than offering a IPO as a way to raise the necessary capital. Private investment demonstrates a philosophical commitment by its investors - an IPO demonstrates a turn of becomming yet another EV Company beholding to Wall Streets shareholders whose only concern is making lots of money. That would be a significant difference in what approach the company makes in designing, manufacturing, distributing, and pricing a vehicle that was born from a philosophical place of producing as #1 efficiency, and affordability. That they are asking the community of those of us that believe in that vision and to support them in that vision, is admirable - I can and will wait awhile longer for that approach rather than “buy in” to people who have no care about the vision - but just care about profits over substance.
I wonder how many stayed to see the delight on your face as you patiently shut down the vintage machine* behind you.😁 * I'm even more 'vintage' and have never been involved in IT so it just looks like a folding computer to me! However I love fixing things so I always watch your tinkerings. I'm just more of a nuts and bolts or wood and nails or even cloth and stitches kind of tinkerer although I'm beginning to wish I understood electronics...
I've followed Aptera regularly because their car would make the perfect commuter vehicle for me (at least when it's too cold for 2 wheels) , but I don't get the outrage over no fast charging (at least initially. I now understand there was a little bait-and-switch as it seems fast charging was promised along with way, but I would bet over 90% of customers considering this as a daily driver would never need it. I'm a pretty typical commuter, with a 34 mile round trip daily. Even on the yearly or biyearly foray camping or to another city we hardly go much over 200 miles one way. Work doesn't permit time off for much long distance driving, our vacations always involve air travel.
Yeah, I agree. I haven't traveled by car over 400 miles in probably over 25 years. The research shows that the vast majority of Americans travel less than 40 miles per day, so why bother with DCFC if it's never going to be used. Level 2 charging at home will replenish the battery in about an hour from a typical day of driving. That's more than good enough for me. The outrage over this was just silly to me. For the rare occasions that it's driven a long distance, I suppose DCFC would be an issue because the vast majority of recharging stations do not offer level 2 anymore. They only offer DCFC from what I understand.
COMPLETELY AGREE! > real-world utilization! Like majority of Every pick-up Truck in America - owners typically all want the 4x4 However - here in So Cali- 98% of them drive on the freeways 100% of the time.....
Sure if all you do is commute, and have charging at home, this isn't a big deal. But there are lots of people who can't charge at home and don't primarily use the car for commuting. For example I never commute in my car - I've driven to work 3 times in 11 years (to collect something big). I have a bike for that. Almost all trips under 20 miles are done by bike. When we drive it's at least 100 miles, and usually over 200 miles up to 1000 miles, and we don't usually have anywhere to charge when we've arrived. So we need fast charging quite a lot of the time. I can't actually buy an Aptera yet because it's too wide for the rules in Europe, and this usage pattern is probably more common in Europe than the US (where most of you have to drive to go and buy milk!). But I suspect there are more of these not-commuting/a-car-is-for-long-trips people than you realise. Yes the stats say only 3% of charging is fast-charging overall, but the point is that when you need it you really need it, so it's important It seems to me that it really doesn't involve much hardware, unless it pushes the cooling requirement significantly beyond what's needed for driving so you have to go from passive cooling to active cooling? The electronics is trivial - it's nearly all software.
Except, there are plenty of people who every now and then do go on a long trip with their car. I did 31 000 km last year or when I take the exact numbers, I averaged 86,49km a day in 2022. Easy you would say, you don't need more than a 100km of range. Except that I also made a few trips that went over 700 km a day. And with my current car and its small battery, I need 6 stops on such a trip. Even with an Aptera, I would probably need one or two stops, depending on the battery size I would choose. And when I do make that stop, I don't want to be stuck for more than half a day. The car is the cheapest and most sustainable option in my opinion. And I don't mind spending a few extra hours on the drive, but I'm not going to waste it at a slow charger.
The company made a smart choice doing in about face. People often forget that electric vehicles are not just in Florida California and Texas. Here in New Jersey we like electric vehicles as well and during this winter we have seen three sunny days that's right three days of sun in December alone. January has not been much better. So for this vehicle to be sold here and get good reviews here in New Jersey during the winter it needs to rely on fast charging pull into a Tesla and charge that puppy in 10 minutes because of the solar is not doing it here in New Jersey. I can imagine the same for the other regular states that aren't sunny all year round.
Is it possible to get it delivered to NJ yet? I read somewhere that it’s one of those dealership states and that only Tesla is allowed to sell there without a stealership in the loop. Might it be necessary to have it delivered to a neighbouring state and pick it up from there?
Yes you could convert to the 1000mile version. Then you won't have range anxiety. But with 18hr charge time without DCFC. Now you have to deal with CHARGE ANXIETY. Glad they fixed this. Quickly adding DCFC back.
This IS EXCELLENT news! I think part of reservation-holders help in seeing the change happen, is that Aptera IS STILL fundraising for start of production. It may have made some ‘extra’ development time available for Aptera to meet needs for the Launch Edition.
Designing anything for the average Usecase makes it useless. The average cheese case ignores 50% of the use cases. you have to assume that people do sometimes want to go beyond average, or it wouldn’t be average… If you want to design for the average use case a 10 kW battery would’ve been sufficient.
if they are gonna make a vehicle that goes a long distance they should expect that people are going to end up in a place where they can't AC charge the car. ive ex. stayed at festivals where i spent the whole week with only one trip to the store so charging on DC was the only way i could get my battery anywhere close to full. but also, why the hell do they need to use the Tesla connector? luckily, here in Europe, CCS2 is mandatory on all cars including new Teslas. if we ever get the Apteras over the pond that is.
@@PandaKnight52 that would have made sense if they intended to use superchargers. The AC CCS plug is quite small , not needing the DC plug would shrink the connector socket quite significantly. Not installing dc quick charging means the it doesn’t matter how large the supercharger network is as they are all inaccessible . Your reasoning makes sense now, it doesn’t make sense last week but they hooked up with Tesla quite some time ago.
Nikki, thanks for the "easter egg" 5300 in the background. I was going to guess a PowerBook 190 or 1900 (or would that be 1400?)... and I was just getting ready to ask here in the comments what that was when you turned and introduced it! Very cool! I'd offer some of my old Macs, except you'd have to pry my cold, dead hands off them! 😄 It actually has been a little while since I've used them (been subjected to the cruel and unusual punishment of running Windoze PeeCees for work for several years, now), but I liked the PB 190c, I think it was (68040, not PPC!), and I'm one of those odd-balls that liked the "pizza-box" LC line, esp the LCIII, with the 12" monitor. (512x384 resolution, all for me! LOL!) Anyway, thanks for the article, AND the show-n-tell! 🤗
Glad to see Aptera reverse course on fast charging! Now if Tesla would just restore features that were originally included, like… grocery hooks in the frunk, Homelink, premium connectivity, tinted glass roof, onboard cableset for 120V & 240V, radar, proximity sensors, etc.
im fine with 120v for my needs but nice to get a fast charge when i need it when out about but i will likely not use it as much .. charge at home and work at 120v ill have more then enough
Since Tesla's Magic dock has leaked and I see a page in the Tesla app for charging non-Tesla vehicles, I think it will open in some way sooner or later and since I doubt an Aptera vehicles will make it to customers in the next 9-10 months, I bet at least some Superchargers are open before that. Since Aptera is not going to need an adapter, they might have access earlier than CCS cars. I think 40kW will be fine for Aptera as it will give 400-600 miles per hour. so they won't be sitting on a plug for long. Aptera is right that a lot of people probably won't need to fast charge, but not having it rules out cross country travel, so I was debating whether to keep my reservation, but since mine is for a 600 mile range Aptera, there was no rush for me to decide.
@@josephpadula2283 No, miles per hour is a common way to think about charging speed. If the Aptera can charge at 50 kW and can travel 10 miles per kWh, it means your peak charging rate is 500 miles per hour. The ratio of charge speed to highway speed is effectively the ratio of time spent driving to time spent charging. So, if you can charge your 'Ptera at 500 miles/hour and drive it at 75 miles/hour, you can spend 500/575 of the time driving and 75/575 of the time charging. That means you can drive for about 3½ hours and charge for ½ hour, every 4 hours. (In reality you may do a bit better overall, as you can typically end the day with a much emptier battery than you started.)
@@gmv0553 That info was released on Aptera's own news page so it is confirmed (that they're thinking about it). I hope they have it by the time I get my 600 mile version.
Yes, most people only do low-ish mileages per day, but when you are investing considerable cash in a car, it is reasonable to expect it to be able to do longer trips without compromise. Fast charging makes sense. Good that they admitted their mistake..... Efficiency looks brilliant (if they can achieve it)
I admittedly didn't see the Aptera live stream, but I wonder if the initial idea to not include fast charge had anything to do with the EV power contactor shortage? DC fast charging requires two extra power contactors. The usual sources for these are back ordered 12+ months at the moment (has been for 2+ years now). Looking at the video showing the PDU, I recognize the make and model that they are using.... I just cancelled an order from one of the "mega" contactor companies after waiting 5 months with no end in site, after securing similar spec contactors direct from Asia. Maybe Aptera found a way to do the same.
You are correct. Parts supply has been a continuing issue since the Covid-19 pandemic began, even for Tesla and other companies with product already in production. Even simple parts have long lead times. This is the reason Aptera won't launch with a heat pump.
It will. At the Launch edition event they said something about "cooling down to 60 degrees" but it's unclear if they meant it will cool the interior to that temperature or if it will blow 60 degree air.
@@robertkirchner7981 The battery cooling loop will be keep the battery temp to 60 degrees C. The AC is designed to provide additional cooling to the liquid battery cooling loop during charging and exhaust fan driven hot air through vents in the tail of the vehicle.
Charging a 40-kwh battery at 40 kwh is 1C charging level, which is where the battery is rated. So, it should be very easy to add DCFC @ 40 kw since there is no added heat from doing that. Charging at a faster rate than that would require additional cooling and then it gets complicated.
Fair enough. If there was a discounted version without rapid charging in the UK I'd go for that because I wouldn't need it much. I'm assuming it wouldn't impact on the car to load/grid options which I favour.
One of the things that I think is cool about electric vehicles is that there’s actually a charging point everywhere that you can find a functioning electrical outlet, even if it isn’t nearly as time efficient charging at a designated EV charging station. ICE enthusiasts claim that there aren’t enough places to charge, but I feel the need to point out that I have several in this room, even if it might be difficult to get an EV to my second floor apartment. Lol
Yeah it's technically possible to charge at literally millions of plugs as long as you are committed to spending the time. I currently charge my Model X with a 120v outlet, and have from the day I bought it. The car sits in the driveway or garage for at least 14 hrs a day and charging at 10A adds around 50 miles of range per day. Plenty for daily errands and such. Looking forward to my Aptera though as we will be able to just let it sit in a sunny driveway and get 40 miles.
When you think about it, if you run out of petrol/gas you have to spend time and effort getting a gallon to get you to the nearest filling station. If you run out of power in an ev you just have to find the nearest kind person with a plug socket. Saw Matt Watson do exactly that in one of his range tests!
Well the places it is difficult to find a functioning electrical outlet currently are mostly along the side of the road. I have seen a couple in London, I have seen an extension cord across the pavement from a pub in rural Australia, they do exist but I have seen many more Tesla Superchargers then functioning electrical outlets available to cars on the roadside.
@@judebrown4103 I have noticed that some of the light poles in parking lots have outlets at their bases. Never had to resort to that but it's good to keep in the back of your mind. If you do try that though always ask permission of an employee before plugging in your vehicle.
Daimler should toss Aptera the $50,000,000 seeing as 1) it’s chump change to them 2) they did it for Tesla 3) they just spent a ton of money designing their most aerodynamic EV (EQXX) and it’s not as slippery as Aptera…
I agree Wyatt. I was thinking it's a great opportunity for Elon to give back as he received December 23, 2008 (pretty close). As a Tesla stock holder I'd take the hit that $100 million would cause.
I live in Texas....i love the car.....but ...it is quite easy for me to put over 100 miles a day....plus...Dallas to Austin...or San Antonio....oy....plus I do like to do road trips.....
Thanks Nikki, I always look forward for your take on what's happening. Of course the next question after "Yes." to the DC charging option is; Will we have access to Vehicle to Grid or house power? Access to 30 or 40 KW downstairs in the carport when the powers out would be very nice.
LOL! No way! I have attempted to point out from the beginning, that feeding power back into a significant load is not as simple as everyone thinks. Example, look at Nikki's last video about all the extension cords needed for her truck to power the house, because Ford's external inverter and the home cut-off switches aren't working yet. Despite what everyone claims, V2G and V2H are not economically justifiable to most people because of the expense of the support hardware and installation costs.
@@TeslaDo_d For those considering something like a Tesla Powerwall, having your EV do double duty can make a lot of sense, and might justify a larger battery than you would consider for your usual vehicle needs alone. The tech is not quite there yet, however.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Support? As in a cheerleader? Or as in an investor? Anyone can be a cheerleader. Especially when they don’t fully understand what’s needed to accomplish the task. In order to perform V2H, your H needs to be completely disconnected from the G. Then you will need an expensive inverter which will provide a nice smooth sine wave for your picky appliances inside your H. In order to perform V2G, it will require a more expensive ‘grid tie’ inverter to perform the sine wave timing and to micro step the voltage slightly higher than the incoming voltages so that the current can flow out. All of this is not financially justifiable for most everyone, but it might be for Nikki and her business and living in a location that has frequent interruptions. Nikki, fell back to V2L in order to ‘power her home’. V2L is easy as there is one source and one load in the circuit. V2L is something that is financially viable and should be a standard on all new EVs. But one day, some ‘smarty’ is going to put a male plug on both sides of an extension cord and back feed the V2L directly to their entire H circuit box. Nikki will have the pleasure of reporting on the resulting fire and then describing why this shouldn’t have been done…and how Tesla should fix it for everyone.
I honestly didn't care about fast charging, but I'm not getting the launch edition and I don't think I'd need it. I know a lot people were angry and I think it's really cool that Aptera listened and made it standard. I won't be getting this vehicle anytime soon, as I don't have the cash to pay for it, but I am looking forward to owning one someday. The concept of an SEV is amazing, the car looks awesome (except the Hello Kitty steering wheel), and I love how open and transparent the company is. 🙂
Good presentation, thanks Nikki. One thing, with regard to your particular situation, you mentioned refinancing and getting a lower monthly payment to go along with your new solar loan. You didn't mention amortization. If you had been paying on your original home loan for a while you were just starting to pay off principal. With the new home loan you're back to square one with regard to paying principle with your monthly payments. You have to take that into consideration also. Refinancing is usually bad. Here's a trick. Get a home equity line of credit, And pay off your mortgage. The interest rate will be slightly higher, but it's a simple interest loan and you will start paying off principal from the very beginning. This works best if you only keeping your house for Less than 10 years.
First the correction. At about 7:40 you assert stopping for an hour to pick up another 100 miles. Of course it’s only 57 miles per hour per their advert. That really gets to the pale that they went beyond also. At typical US highway speeds, you are likely to travel more than 57 miles in an hour. So the prospect of charging for an hour, and then still not being able to drive for another hour is crossing a line of unacceptability for a lot of EV drivers even with modest expectations.
I have a question for you. Out of all the vehicles you have test driven, owned, filmed, etc., which EV vehicle do you think is the best? Based on all pros and cons of each vehicle. I’m just curious. I think I’d love to see a video like that.
Nikki. I could agree with Aptera to keep it simple if they had used the J3068 charging standard. This would allow AC Level 2 charging rates of up to 24kW in the USA and 31kW in Canada.
Yes. But it is a bit more complicated. It also affects the battery chemistry. A Porsche taycan has a different chemistry that can handle faster charging. It has more buffer above the useable capacity and handling higher currents comes with the cost of lower energy density.
It makes little sense to omit fast charging, as it requires almost no hardware, just a connector and contactor - the charger does most of the work, unlike AC charging which uses dedicated charging hardware in the vehicle. The only case where it can be an issue is where the battery pack voltage is quite low, like on motorbikes, as the CCS standard has a minimum working voltage of 200V. I wonder if this may be the case for Aptera, as a lower pack voltage may simplify things for the solar charging.
I agree. I ordered my Aptera with the option to go on road trips & without DC rapid charging reduces the practicality. A CCS adapter opens the car up to every charge point in the EU
In the EU they really have to equip the car with a CCS port. With NACS (Europe isn't North America) you would have to drag along adapters all the time. You run the risk of breaking things, of losing them, ... . No, if the car doesn't come with CCS natively, don't bother bringing it to Europe.
I wouldn't exactly say that. Sandy wasn't big on Tesla until he bought their stock. Aptera is about the same. He's typically down on brands that don't buy his services so his advise always comes with a good sized grain of salt.
@@davidmccarthy6061 The thing to know about Sandy is that he was an associate of Dr. Deming, who was the force behind the Japanese "economic miracle". Sandy also managed the Dodge Viper production line. He has deep experience in what it takes to do efficient production.
@@n.brucenelson5920 "He has deep experience in what it takes to do efficient production" He does, but he also talks a certain amount of bollocks sometimes. And his views on repairability are just shocking: he doesn't give a toss, and consistently advocates for large unrepairable assemblies. That is of course cheaper to manufacture and good for parts sales later, but it's terrible for the environment. Minimising front-end cost is not the only important consideration, and the world would be much improved if people like Mr Munroe acknowledged this.
@Vlasko60 'Safe' is not a binary thing. Something is rarely simply 'safe' or 'unsafe'. It's a matter of 'how safe', and how safe is acceptable varies dramatically between people. Some would never go in a 1980s vehicle, never mind a hang-glider. Others are fine with those things. Some won't use anything that doesn't get 5 stars on the vehicle test. Cars are particularly odd as to some degree it's a relative measure. Smaller cars are perfectly safe on their own, but rather less so when surrounded by huge vehicles 3 times the weight. Trying to maximise personal safety beyond a certain level tends to fuel the crazy trend towards ever-larger-and-heavier vehicles.
I put my money down on an Aptera in 2008. They promised to get right to developing a production version over all other goals. Then they got caught up in raising money, lost their sights on what they promised, and failed. Eventually I got some of my money back. It absolutely kills me that when they started back up, that they never thought of getting a hold of the original backers and maybe offering something (anything). Chevy on the other hand didn't disappoint me with my 2017 Bolt - seven years without a single problem and now I have a new battery with a new 8 year warranty. Waiting on you Aptera... Not optimistic.
> "getting a hold of the original backers" Perhaps not as easy as it sounds. The founders had been pushed out of the Original Aptera so no longer had any rights to the company's data. In fact, if they had taken a copy of it, they could have been sued / convicted for taking trade secrets...
@Wyndstryke is correct. The founders were pushed out in 2009 and kicked off the board by a single vote. The Detroit team that was hired to start production kept putting it off when the founders had been pushing to get started. They had other plans and wanted to produce a 4 wheel vehicle instead. They never brought in financing of their own, and liquidated the company in 2011. At this point in time, Aptera Corp is much further ahead in the process than Tesla was when they got started, both financially and technically. I don't know that I would say I am optimistic - they still need $50 million to start production in a tough economy - but I am hopeful.
I was a backer back then as well and they did contact me. It was through email in 2019, maybe yours went to spam? I gave it another shot and invested again as I do believe they are genuinely trying to get a super efficient and cost effective vehicle out into the world.
I have a $100 down payment? On an Aptera. For what I would use the car for I don't need fast charging. The only reason I might is to show off and drive the car a long ways to a friends house to show off. All show.....I don't need it locally for sure and I have other cars for long distance transport which are probably much better long distance cars. I mean comfort wise.
Good aero is especially useful for road tripping imo. Not having quick charging kills this use case... 50kw would be enough... or at least 11kw dc not 7 :( Hopefully there is still a lot of interest in it
The biggest complaint I hear from people I know when it comes to EV’s is charge time. So few people have stopped to think about how long they are stopped when they do and even fewer have a realistic idea of how often they’ll stop. If they see level 2 only on a car and work out the 0-100% charge time many will instantly walk. Sure, aptera is a type of vehicle most people probably don’t want to drive 600 miles a day in but as we can see here, when buying new cars people don’t ask if the should drive that far in a car or even if they would enjoy it. They ask if they could. No DC fast charge means no cross country road trip, and no purchase!
There are many thoughts I have but baseline... I hope many more reservation holders join the ranks and we all help lighten Steve and Chris's load in fundraising. Aptera is proof we can refute the recent report an increasing number American electric cars need increasingly more batteries, adding increasing weight to move vehicles completely heedless of the amount of lithium mining effects on the environment. Secondly I while I do appreciate the physical Tesla plug and its power to charge I am definitely uneasy about its future. Definitely. Good news is I Can live without it if push came to shove.
Generally agree but I feel I should point out that reservation fees do nothing to lighten the load for fundraising. Reservation fees are held in escrow (required by law to satisfy the guarantee of refund-ability) so that money is not useable by the company before the vehicle sale actually goes through. That is part of why I also invested.
The trade off to me seems to be that adding fast charging means production will be further behind schedule, and it will be more likely the company will collapse before producing anything.
What we're they thinking with that decision , flexibility and range is the biggest selling point of the vehicle . Even with a fossil fuel car there must have been a time over your years of driving when you have misjudged your range and had to make an unplanned top up . If not you've been fortunate enough never to really venture beyond your local area . Fast charging ability on an EV is a must and also utilising the predominant connection charger to vehicle network in that country . Surely not to much to ask
Fast charging is needed for long highway trips. My question is, is this vehicle appropriate for long highway trips on a road with many heavy, fast vehicles? Its occupants could not survive a crash with a Ram pickup truck, much less a Mack truck. Aptera’s high efficiency requires a light shell around passengers, which needs less force to crush than conventional vehicle designs.
Decide when you see the results of the 3rd party FMVSS Part 200 crash tests that will be performed on the production intent vehicles being assembled now.
I reserved as soon as I heard the news. I wouldn't buy an electric vehicle without fast charging of some sort. If all goes well, the Aptera will replace my 2009 Mazda 3i and 2018 Suzuki M109r, leaving me with only an electric motorcycle and the Aptera. The dream of no more gas for travel for this Texan is almost a reality, and it's only possible because they've made this better decision.
I was quite keen on this vehicle but we still don't know if we can drive it on Australian roads or what it'll be registered as. Is it a motorcycle, a car or a plane? Given that we're in 230V land and the solar panels on the roof charging was never going to be much of an issue anyway. I'd imagine people in the UK would be in the same boat. Now my biggest concern is the company going to grow into a ongoing business. The talk of needing $millions to stay afloat is more of a concern than the charging issue.
It's "legally" a motorcycle. And obviously it will arrive in north america first, I imagine 2 years down the line they will have a clearer idea of the regulation hurdles to bring it to the EU or Australia. As for the money they don't have a sugar daddy so they've been advancing conservatively on that, they have proved at every step they can deliver, so it shouldn't be a massive issue to get the next round of funding.
Australia is going to make its own decision about what it is. I very much suspect the steering wheel will have to be switched to the other side. Which means it’s going to be a very long time before it gets here. Us, India , Japan and the UK are not going to be high on the exports list.
Even in the US, it is not always classed as a motorcycle. There's a category called "autocycle" for 3 wheel vehicles. Vehicle classifications vary, but I've never heard of any 3-wheeler being classed as an automobile. FWIW.
@@francesconicoletti2547 RHD has already been designed, and is a rather minor part of the homologation changes that may be required for some countries.
In theory the hardware is much simpler for Supercharging vs CCS... Single wire CAN is definitely simpler than the CCS...mess. so as long as they can get an agreement on billing customers, this should be pretty easy for them to get it to work, assuming they have access to how the protocol works vs reverse engineering it...
@@ps.2 nope, it uses something like power line networking..look up HomePlug GreenPhy and it just gets worse from there... A weird binary tokenized XML thing, I think IPv6...it's an order of magnitude more complicated unfortunately.
@@Mattstech12 It's not that compicated and on a hardware level not that complex or difficult. Don't forget that NACS, which Aptera is most likely going to use, is essentially CCS with a Tesla plug.
I think *SLOW* DCFC is a fair compromise on the Aptera. Even going down to the absolute minimum DCFC speeds (even sub-Bolt EV speeds). Given the pack size, and the focus on efficiency, a slow DCFC is better than no DCFC on a small pack and opens roadside chargers to usage.
I dunno. Toyota recently tried to release a vehicle with self removing wheels and then went back and relaunched with standard wheels you have to take off manually.
Tesla is trialling access to their chargers by other car makers in the UK - I've charged my MG at a Tesla showroom. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.
Until Aptera’s principal’s come out and explicitly say “Aptera has contracted for owner access to Tesla supercharging network”, we all will still be buying both CCS -> NACS and J1772 -> NACS adapters to make sure we’ve got charging access regardless of type available.
Well done Nikki, this was a case of not understanding your customers. Range is a big problem for EV's in the mind of people who are interested in going there and it doesn't matter if engineers like Sandy think it shouldn't be. Plus most people don't have a selection of different types of car in their garage and can go for the one that best does the job for today's usage, so any vehicle they own must be multi purpose.
What I can't figure out is: what changed between Friday and Monday that gave them this "line of sight" that they say was crucial in their decision to move forward with DC fast charging? It sounds more like either they always had the choice and are embarrassed that they made the wrong decision at first, or they still face major challenges that they don't want to acknowledge.
yeah mostly if going like a far road trip ...but for city use even 120v home outlet will be enough.. charge over night get about 100+ miles and get another maybe 25 to 30 miles solar while parked at work ..of course depending how the sun is ..
part of the problem of trying to build what customers want, is that customers will change their minds (some times from day to day), and most dont really know what they want, unless of course they have a favorite band.
Interesting that Aptera never expected their drivers to road trip in the vehicles. Based on the shape and size of them, I could understand why, but they'll do well to include fast charging.
This is puzzling. The main reason why I'm interested in Aptera is precisely that it looks useable for long trips. Although I will probably wait for a model with more seats. (I have public transport and a bike for short distances. Central Europe.)
I had over 30 Macintosh computers at one point. From toaster macs to G4's. I have the same powerbook as well. They are classics for sure.
I kind of agree with their initial idea, but it's true that on road trip it means you would have to wait for hours to recharge, even with the smallish 40kWh pack, and I do intend to use my Aptera, occasionally, as a road trip vehicle, so a fast charger is kind of a must, even if it doesn't need to be the fastest ever.
I agree that DCFC is a must for the 400 mile version. However that becomes more unnecessary once one considers the 1000 Mile version. But I get it. The number one issue for ev owners is range. Regardless of Real world experience, range is extremely important.
My Tesla model 3 in five years has gone from 310 EPA miles or 290 real world miles at 65mph in summer 85ish degrees to 260 real world miles, same conditions.
Trust me, even with these numbers I obsess in how much range I have and when I need to charge.
Right now I am traveling and my car is at the airport. I am stressed about how much range I will find when I get back.
So yes, I will want a car that charges from the sun, has at least a 600 mile range (500 real world) and can fast charge in a pinch.
with 400 mile range i cant see the need to fast charge while driving, if you could get level 2 charging at night you would not need to fast charge.
@@scottmcshannon6821 400 miles at 65mph is 6.5hrs on the road. I'm comfortable with 10-12 hours on the road and I regularly do 14 hours, but those last 2 hours are tough. My Prius C can keep up, a Tesla could keep up and an Aptera with DCFC could keep up. I want an EV, I can't afford a Tesla and if Aptera can'd do DCFC there are much cheaper cars out there that would get me farther in a day, like a Chevy Bolt or Hyundai Kona.
Agreed.
The Aptera is by no means a car just to commute 30 or 40km a day.
With a cW of 0.13 it is predestined for longest road trips at max. speed and therefore fast charging is a must have to my opinion or else it doesn't make sense at all.
I would not call it fast charging. I would call it normal charging vs slow charging. They need to have normal charging, not slow charging.
good comments and a good 180. Fascinating to see that when it comes to consumerism US citizens aren't all complete idiots.
AKA they were going to lose most reservation holders.
I’m in several Aptera groups and a grand total of like 3 out of thousands of us cancelled their orders over this…
@@wyattnoise probably bc they went back and said it'll be included.
That's not my impression either but a truck load of unhappy campers for sure. Even those of us that aren't taking one of these first 5,000 units complained.
There was a TH-cam poll that had roughly a third of responders "waiting" a third "cancelling" and a third "converting" orders to LE.
@@wyattnoise My first reaction to the news that they would not include DCFC, was oh no, they aren't going to make it. The ability to fast charge makes the vehicle much more valuable, allowing them to sell them for more, and increases the number of people willing to consider buying it several times over. I think the Aptera is comparable in practically to a sports car, except that it should be much cheaper to operate and won't rust.
We were ready to cancel our reservation this weekend. I’m glad we didn’t. Of course this will be a vehicle for us to mainly use around the Phoenix metropolitan area however, there are some really beautiful drives. We were hoping to take this on.
I think they could have spent this a different way on Friday and said that her at lunch they would be the first car to offer the equivalent of level two charging on a level one plug. I personally believe we need more level to charging more than we need more level three charging. I would love to see every rest stop outfitted with 5 to 10 level two charging stations both for emergencies but also as a way to get more people to visit national parks and spend more time on the great American road trip.
6.6kw rooftop system, 240volt, is the maximum at 57mph, 100klmph.
Handy for Australia.
I hope Aptera does well - they seem like good people with intelligent ideas. They're allowed a few minor stumbles along the way. BTW, I hope that they don't take Saudi money.
I don't think they get to pick and choose what money they take. They aren't about to give control up of the company and they are manufacturing in the US so this would be a good company to have off the ground (at least for USA).
They might be required to open a plant in Saudi Arabia. With their sunny climate it makes sense there. This won’t mean shutting down a US plant.
@@davidlazarus67 The morality of mass executions and feudal social norms isn't sunny.
@@miketrebert7788 The USA isn’t anywhere near the moral high ground.
@@davidlazarus67 I agree. Why do you compare to anyone? To me morality is not relative.
For a company that makes efficiency the center point of their whole mission, the decision to try and gut DCFC was a pretty confusing one. Being able to charge up quickly is part of what makes an electric car efficient. Range and aero are cool, but so is topping off as quickly as possible. All three make traveling more efficient.
Time efficient, that is.
Exactly. There are really only 2 benefits to high efficiency, and neither of them are low cost of home charging. Ha.
Edit ok 3: low weight per range, high potential charging speed In mph, long range
Less time hanging around sketchy places waiting for the charge to complete
@@bob15479 Efficiency is definitely a cost factor for home charging? If you have a vehicle that does between 8 - 10m/kWh v a vehicle that does between 3-4m'kWh the former vehicle costs less than half in electricity to go the same number of miles. Wherever you charge.
@@mondotv4216 it’s half of very little. It’s not worth paying much more for the vehicle, that’s my point. My friend does 1000 miles a month on his Bolt and it costs $27 in electricity. So an Aptera would be like $13. Big whoop.
First visit, you are pretty and pleasant. Nice presentation. Pissed I'm unable to determine the rest of the T-shirt, like a book missing it's last page. Oh well. Subbed
Great news. Aptera is a company who is easy to root for.
@Vlasko60 very safe driving car, maybe not so safe investment!
The Tesla Supercharger network isn't the only DC fast charging option for NACS (North American Charging Standard) equipped vehicles. EVgo stations are being installed that are also equipped with 50 kW NACS cables in addition to the more common CHAdeMO and CCS cable combinations. So there is no need to wait for a confirmed agreement with Tesla for use of the Supercharger network to justify including the DC fast charging capability.
Can't wait for the launch to sit in my driveway
It's going to get more attention than a million dollar car
I couldn't agree more! I was going to cancel my reservation when no fast charging would be available. It's so refreshing to hear of a company that listens to it's buyers! I wanted to be able to take off for parts unknown without being tethered to a long charge NOW I can according to Aptera. Great Video
I was ok with the launch edition not including DCFC, but I realize other people found that important. I just hope it doesn't negatively impact their production timeline.
Yeah, as she said, the research shows that the vast majority of Americans drive less than 40 miles per day. A level 2 charging station at home can recharge the battery in less than an hour since it charges the car at 57 miles per hour. Thus, DCFC isn't really needed, but people believe the need it anyway because most commercial recharge stations are DCFC. I was fine not having DCFC, but others were very upset about their initial decision. Further, I think that traveling long distances in the Aptera would be uncomfortable, so why bother with that?
@@DirkWrightxyz For my use case, if I am going somewhere by myself for work and it is more than 300 miles then I am going to fly, but if I take my family then I need a bigger car anyway, so I can’t even think of a situation where I might need a fast charger. I am perfectly content to just use L1 charging overnight on the occasion I need to charge it.
It does make a lot of sense to charge off a domestic supply tbh, especially given the efficiency of Aptera's design.
@@DirkWrightxyz Like most other people, 95% of my driving is fairly local. But, in North America there are still a lot of places with little to no CCS DCFC, making Tesla SuperChargers the best way to go long distances. I'm interested in the Aptera because I make a few 14 hour long drives a year without stopping overnight and an Aptera with 100-mile per 10-min DCFC on the Tesla SuperCharger network will get me there with no major change in my driving behavior.
If Aptera was only offering AC charging and I had to stop for hours to recharge, I'm better off getting a Chevy Bolt, which I can find new for $16k-$20k after Federal, state and utility incentives. If I'm really frugal and plan ahead I can probably get a used Nissan Leaf for $10k and rent cars to take my long trips.
I'm willing to pay a premium for the Aptera because its new technology I want to support, will save money on charging over time and is the best road-trip alternative to a much more expensive Tesla. Take away the road trip ability and I feel there are better alternatives.
I already have a volt, I can tell you that the “40 miles” figure only really works if you live in the “metro-core” and indeed when I lived in the LA metro core then yes I could get around 90% of my travel done without gasoline.
Fast forward to pandemic, fast forward to stimulus induced inflation, and the housing market in LA is toxically overpriced.
So I moved an hour out, now my work commute is 120 miles round trip.
I could just buy a model 3 or wait for the mode 2. Easy decision. But I specifically decided to play the long game and go for a 1,000 mile Aptera. So I’m waiting for a vehicle that might never be produced, but if it is produced then it had better have DC fast charging, else I’m done with it. I’ve already experienced slow charging for 2 years and no thank you.
I forgot that this vehicle existed for awhile. Now that I’ve looked more into it, I like it.
I’m quite interested to see what else they come up with if this goes well.
Yeah, I already have my "ultra-efficient compact city EV without DC" in my Arcimoto FUV. My Aptera reservation was assuming it would be "like Arcimoto - but for road trips" (it's *SIGNIFICANTLY* larger) so the remove of DC was going to be a dealkiller. Glad they put it back.
I find "North American Charging Standard" hilarious.
I hope Aptera adopting what has, until very recently, been a Tesla proprietary standard works well for them.
I'm a BIG FAN of simplicity and keeping to the basic necessities, but Some features are just necessary for one or more reason, despite the additional complexity.
Great update on the topic, thank you! 👍
Great video! Impartial assessment professionally done, which is why I subscribe. So few TH-camrs actually do that, thank you! I am a reservation holder too. I doubt I would need fast charging, but the option in a pinch is highly desirable. Respect to Aptera for listening and changing direction, gives me greater confidence in them as a company. I can also see the benefits to Aptera for the reasons you say. I too am concerned about them raising the money, but optimistic about their applying for the federal loan.
They've come this far I'm sure they will be able to finish the last mile.
I, like you, have my money down and am a reservation holder. When I saw
Live broadcast I let them have with both barrels, as they say. I was ready to cancel my reservation but like many things of late it slipped my mind for a couple of days. It appears that is a good thing. The model they outlined was very near what I specked out. By going to that model, if and when they start production they saved me $5K dollars.
That said, because of the price decreases at Tesla and the rebates I specked out a entry level Model3 with the rebate it comes to $1,000 more that the Aptera I specked. Only $1k more for the rear wheel drive Tesla, I'm still considering it.
Remember that the ongoing operating costs over time will still be far higher for the Tesla. It might partially depend on how often you would need the extra seats, or if you ever might wish to sleep in the back for camping.
400mi range in winter may become 200miles, ie cold soak battery in between errands. what about elevation? what about V2L? DCFC is needed but could be added for a price vs not at all.
Please help lobby congress: The EV Tax Credit should be allowed to be spaced out over two or more years for those individuals whose yearly income is not sufficient to qualify for the full benefit. If the goal of this tax credit is to encourage the maximum number of people to buy electric vehicles it makes NO sense to structure it so that those who need it the most will benefit the least from it. As it is written only high earning individuals, but not too high (over $150,000 for a single tax filer), get this full benefit. This is an important economic justice issue IMHO. Our tax code should not be structured so it blatantly rewards wealthier individuals at the expense of lower income earners. A simple fairness issue, no?
While we are looking for some EV Tax Credit justice here, we also should be lobbying for future Aptera buyers to be eligible for the full benefit too. We should be encouraging people to buy this most efficient and greenest of vehicles as this ‘auto cycle’ will operate in every way like a car. Its longest range version after all allows two passengers and their pets to travel 1,000 miles on a single charge. That is significantly further than any other qualifying EV is achieving. This most American of companies with over 40,000 initial reservations should be incentivized to source their future batteries according to the IRA’s guidelines, just as the car companies are.
And finally - an EV Tax Credit hack for those who have money saved in a traditional IRA (403B, …) but have lower annual incomes that do not allow them to receive the full $7,500 credit: You can create taxable income by rolling over money from this retirement asset into a Roth IRA, that can then grow tax free and allow you to withdraw it tax free later. There is not currently a limit on how much you can roll over once a year, but you do need to wait 5 years before withdrawing it without a penalty. So while waiting out those 5 or more years to withdraw these Roth IRA monies why not invest them in companies that are pretty sure to be growing healthily over the next 5 to 10 years, like EV or renewable energy stocks, mutuals, or ETF’s! Invest in your values so that this money can help further transform our economy into one with a cleaner, greener, safer, healthier and more sustainable future!
The fact that Aptera is using the NACS only really makes sense if they were using the DCFC. That's the whole point of using Telsa's charging network.
Like everyone else - I was very surprised that they left DCFC out originally, and I had to think long and hard about it. I already have a $100 deposit, and I had just changed from the 600 mile to the 400 mile battery option. I am hoping to use my Aptera for my business - by delivering my MLTL-6 audio speakers directly to customers; rather than paying nearly $500 for shipping, and risking damage to them.
And like everyone - I was greatly relieved to see their announcement that they would in fact be including DCFC (40-60kW estimated rate) on the Launch Edition.
I did change my reservation to a Launch Edition, and I have purchased 100 shares of Aptera stock.
I agree, and I think they could have mitigated this by supporting 12-15kW of Level 2 charging, which is available through Tesla HWPC AKA Destination Chargers. That would have at least reduced charging times in many situations to just 2-3 hours.
But, at 40-60kW, I’m a happy reservation holder now, adding to my preference for its efficiency and repairability intent.
@@BrianTRice77 Right - I would like having 10kW Level 2, at least. And depending on what is the limiting factor for their DCFC in the Launch Edition, it *may* be able to maintain 40-60kW for a longer portion of the time? I agree with you on the reasons I like Aptera - we need as efficient energy use as possible, and we must have full right to repair.
As a fellow reservation holder, small stock holder, and volunteer brand ambassador for Aptera, I want to extend my personal thanks. It will take all of us working together to get our vehicles produced, and aside from our personal needs, this is a good thing for the world.
I shifted to the Aptera Launch Edition because I have limited time and because staff said DCFC would happen and be available "soon". Their rapid shift was a welcome surprise, but fundamentally I had believed in the company. I also believe in their ability to find money and am hoping the Friday shareholders webinar will have news. Success as a startup, especially a car startup, is statistically unlikely, but if Aptera fails, other car startups will not get funding either, especially considering the modesty of the Aptera ask.
Fast charging is a must if you live in the city with no way to charge the vehicle at home.
Love you guys. WORDS ARE ❤️ 😍
for a split second there, i thought they got ahold of that Canadian company eLeap from CES
Aptera in my eyes has become the premier vehicle with 40-60kw charging. Equivalent to fastest charging cars out there per mile basis. Smallest battery so great for economy and environment. Practical solar roof. You should do the Alaska road trip to show how much faster aptera is for being so efficient
But it’s not equivalent on a per mile basis. 60kw would be 600mph. Model 3 can do about 1000
@@bob15479 This is true. For places in USA with only 50kw I think aptera would excel. 150kwh would have been ideal
Since Tesla chargers are the only practical ones, I expect to use them on a long trip. The quickest possible charge is merely insurance, even though I am probably not ever going to use it. The biggest asset of Aptera, besides being the most efficient transport ever, is built in solar charging. That is a "must".
Aptera video! Hooray!
Example of a similar about face - Rivian’s price increases before delivery.
Which is a big reason Aptera is holding off on announcing final pricing.
I think raising another 50 million through private investment is far better than offering a IPO as a way to raise the necessary capital. Private investment demonstrates a philosophical commitment by its investors - an IPO demonstrates a turn of becomming yet another EV Company beholding to Wall Streets shareholders whose only concern is making lots of money.
That would be a significant difference in what approach the company makes in designing, manufacturing, distributing, and pricing a vehicle that was born from a philosophical place of producing as #1 efficiency, and affordability.
That they are asking the community of those of us that believe in that vision and to support them in that vision, is admirable - I can and will wait awhile longer for that approach rather than “buy in” to people who have no care about the vision - but just care about profits over substance.
I wonder how many stayed to see the delight on your face as you patiently shut down the vintage machine* behind you.😁
* I'm even more 'vintage' and have never been involved in IT so it just looks like a folding computer to me! However I love fixing things so I always watch your tinkerings. I'm just more of a nuts and bolts or wood and nails or even cloth and stitches kind of tinkerer although I'm beginning to wish I understood electronics...
I've followed Aptera regularly because their car would make the perfect commuter vehicle for me (at least when it's too cold for 2 wheels) , but I don't get the outrage over no fast charging (at least initially. I now understand there was a little bait-and-switch as it seems fast charging was promised along with way, but I would bet over 90% of customers considering this as a daily driver would never need it.
I'm a pretty typical commuter, with a 34 mile round trip daily. Even on the yearly or biyearly foray camping or to another city we hardly go much over 200 miles one way. Work doesn't permit time off for much long distance driving, our vacations always involve air travel.
Yeah, I agree. I haven't traveled by car over 400 miles in probably over 25 years. The research shows that the vast majority of Americans travel less than 40 miles per day, so why bother with DCFC if it's never going to be used. Level 2 charging at home will replenish the battery in about an hour from a typical day of driving. That's more than good enough for me. The outrage over this was just silly to me. For the rare occasions that it's driven a long distance, I suppose DCFC would be an issue because the vast majority of recharging stations do not offer level 2 anymore. They only offer DCFC from what I understand.
COMPLETELY AGREE! > real-world utilization! Like majority of Every pick-up Truck in America - owners typically all want the 4x4
However - here in So Cali- 98% of them drive on the freeways 100% of the time.....
Sure if all you do is commute, and have charging at home, this isn't a big deal. But there are lots of people who can't charge at home and don't primarily use the car for commuting. For example I never commute in my car - I've driven to work 3 times in 11 years (to collect something big). I have a bike for that. Almost all trips under 20 miles are done by bike. When we drive it's at least 100 miles, and usually over 200 miles up to 1000 miles, and we don't usually have anywhere to charge when we've arrived. So we need fast charging quite a lot of the time. I can't actually buy an Aptera yet because it's too wide for the rules in Europe, and this usage pattern is probably more common in Europe than the US (where most of you have to drive to go and buy milk!). But I suspect there are more of these not-commuting/a-car-is-for-long-trips people than you realise. Yes the stats say only 3% of charging is fast-charging overall, but the point is that when you need it you really need it, so it's important
It seems to me that it really doesn't involve much hardware, unless it pushes the cooling requirement significantly beyond what's needed for driving so you have to go from passive cooling to active cooling? The electronics is trivial - it's nearly all software.
Except, there are plenty of people who every now and then do go on a long trip with their car. I did 31 000 km last year or when I take the exact numbers, I averaged 86,49km a day in 2022. Easy you would say, you don't need more than a 100km of range. Except that I also made a few trips that went over 700 km a day. And with my current car and its small battery, I need 6 stops on such a trip. Even with an Aptera, I would probably need one or two stops, depending on the battery size I would choose. And when I do make that stop, I don't want to be stuck for more than half a day.
The car is the cheapest and most sustainable option in my opinion. And I don't mind spending a few extra hours on the drive, but I'm not going to waste it at a slow charger.
To be clear, it was just the launch edition that was without DCFC, they said that it would be available in later editions.
The company made a smart choice doing in about face. People often forget that electric vehicles are not just in Florida California and Texas. Here in New Jersey we like electric vehicles as well and during this winter we have seen three sunny days that's right three days of sun in December alone. January has not been much better. So for this vehicle to be sold here and get good reviews here in New Jersey during the winter it needs to rely on fast charging pull into a Tesla and charge that puppy in 10 minutes because of the solar is not doing it here in New Jersey. I can imagine the same for the other regular states that aren't sunny all year round.
Is it possible to get it delivered to NJ yet? I read somewhere that it’s one of those dealership states and that only Tesla is allowed to sell there without a stealership in the loop.
Might it be necessary to have it delivered to a neighbouring state and pick it up from there?
Yes you could convert to the 1000mile version. Then you won't have range anxiety. But with 18hr charge time without DCFC. Now you have to deal with CHARGE ANXIETY. Glad they fixed this. Quickly adding DCFC back.
This IS EXCELLENT news! I think part of reservation-holders help in seeing the change happen, is that Aptera IS STILL fundraising for start of production. It may have made some ‘extra’ development time available for Aptera to meet needs for the Launch Edition.
Designing anything for the average Usecase makes it useless.
The average cheese case ignores 50% of the use cases.
you have to assume that people do sometimes want to go beyond average, or it wouldn’t be average…
If you want to design for the average use case a 10 kW battery would’ve been sufficient.
if they are gonna make a vehicle that goes a long distance they should expect that people are going to end up in a place where they can't AC charge the car. ive ex. stayed at festivals where i spent the whole week with only one trip to the store so charging on DC was the only way i could get my battery anywhere close to full. but also, why the hell do they need to use the Tesla connector? luckily, here in Europe, CCS2 is mandatory on all cars including new Teslas. if we ever get the Apteras over the pond that is.
It makes sense for Aptera in their design Language and having access to the supercharger network is better value than CCS2 at least in USA
@@PandaKnight52 that would have made sense if they intended to use superchargers. The AC CCS plug is quite small , not needing the DC plug would shrink the connector socket quite significantly. Not installing dc quick charging means the it doesn’t matter how large the supercharger network is as they are all inaccessible . Your reasoning makes sense now, it doesn’t make sense last week but they hooked up with Tesla quite some time ago.
Nikki, thanks for the "easter egg" 5300 in the background. I was going to guess a PowerBook 190 or 1900 (or would that be 1400?)... and I was just getting ready to ask here in the comments what that was when you turned and introduced it! Very cool!
I'd offer some of my old Macs, except you'd have to pry my cold, dead hands off them! 😄
It actually has been a little while since I've used them (been subjected to the cruel and unusual punishment of running Windoze PeeCees for work for several years, now), but I liked the PB 190c, I think it was (68040, not PPC!), and I'm one of those odd-balls that liked the "pizza-box" LC line, esp the LCIII, with the 12" monitor. (512x384 resolution, all for me! LOL!)
Anyway, thanks for the article, AND the show-n-tell! 🤗
I highly recommend looking into Linux if you want to restore better performance to old hardware, and greatly lesson the risk of outside attack.
Glad to see Aptera reverse course on fast charging! Now if Tesla would just restore features that were originally included, like… grocery hooks in the frunk, Homelink, premium connectivity, tinted glass roof, onboard cableset for 120V & 240V, radar, proximity sensors, etc.
im fine with 120v for my needs but nice to get a fast charge when i need it when out about but i will likely not use it as much .. charge at home and work at 120v ill have more then enough
Since Tesla's Magic dock has leaked and I see a page in the Tesla app for charging non-Tesla vehicles, I think it will open in some way sooner or later and since I doubt an Aptera vehicles will make it to customers in the next 9-10 months, I bet at least some Superchargers are open before that.
Since Aptera is not going to need an adapter, they might have access earlier than CCS cars.
I think 40kW will be fine for Aptera as it will give 400-600 miles per hour. so they won't be sitting on a plug for long.
Aptera is right that a lot of people probably won't need to fast charge, but not having it rules out cross country travel, so I was debating whether to keep my reservation, but since mine is for a 600 mile range Aptera, there was no rush for me to decide.
I doubt they are doing that speed , think ya mean range not miles per hour….
@@josephpadula2283 No, miles per hour is a common way to think about charging speed. If the Aptera can charge at 50 kW and can travel 10 miles per kWh, it means your peak charging rate is 500 miles per hour.
The ratio of charge speed to highway speed is effectively the ratio of time spent driving to time spent charging. So, if you can charge your 'Ptera at 500 miles/hour and drive it at 75 miles/hour, you can spend 500/575 of the time driving and 75/575 of the time charging. That means you can drive for about 3½ hours and charge for ½ hour, every 4 hours. (In reality you may do a bit better overall, as you can typically end the day with a much emptier battery than you started.)
The word out is that Aptera is going to have 100kW for the larger batteries.
@@gmv0553 That info was released on Aptera's own news page so it is confirmed (that they're thinking about it). I hope they have it by the time I get my 600 mile version.
Yes, most people only do low-ish mileages per day, but when you are investing considerable cash in a car, it is reasonable to expect it to be able to do longer trips without compromise. Fast charging makes sense. Good that they admitted their mistake..... Efficiency looks brilliant (if they can achieve it)
I agree with your estimation at end of video. Wondering if you might look into their choices for funding, etc. in a future video?
I admittedly didn't see the Aptera live stream, but I wonder if the initial idea to not include fast charge had anything to do with the EV power contactor shortage? DC fast charging requires two extra power contactors. The usual sources for these are back ordered 12+ months at the moment (has been for 2+ years now). Looking at the video showing the PDU, I recognize the make and model that they are using.... I just cancelled an order from one of the "mega" contactor companies after waiting 5 months with no end in site, after securing similar spec contactors direct from Asia. Maybe Aptera found a way to do the same.
That could be the case.
You are correct. Parts supply has been a continuing issue since the Covid-19 pandemic began, even for Tesla and other companies with product already in production. Even simple parts have long lead times. This is the reason Aptera won't launch with a heat pump.
Something I don't remember hearing - does it have an Air Conditioner? As I am assuming that may have a similar heat load to remove as a battery.,....
It will. At the Launch edition event they said something about "cooling down to 60 degrees" but it's unclear if they meant it will cool the interior to that temperature or if it will blow 60 degree air.
@@robertkirchner7981 The battery cooling loop will be keep the battery temp to 60 degrees C. The AC is designed to provide additional cooling to the liquid battery cooling loop during charging and exhaust fan driven hot air through vents in the tail of the vehicle.
Charging a 40-kwh battery at 40 kwh is 1C charging level, which is where the battery is rated. So, it should be very easy to add DCFC @ 40 kw since there is no added heat from doing that. Charging at a faster rate than that would require additional cooling and then it gets complicated.
Aptera already has additional cooling available from the AC system that will vent extra heat out the tail vents with a fan.
Fair enough. If there was a discounted version without rapid charging in the UK I'd go for that because I wouldn't need it much. I'm assuming it wouldn't impact on the car to load/grid options which I favour.
I'm not getting the Aptera for any practical reason but for how cool it looks, although the practical reason do make sense. ;)
One of the things that I think is cool about electric vehicles is that there’s actually a charging point everywhere that you can find a functioning electrical outlet, even if it isn’t nearly as time efficient charging at a designated EV charging station. ICE enthusiasts claim that there aren’t enough places to charge, but I feel the need to point out that I have several in this room, even if it might be difficult to get an EV to my second floor apartment. Lol
Yeah it's technically possible to charge at literally millions of plugs as long as you are committed to spending the time. I currently charge my Model X with a 120v outlet, and have from the day I bought it. The car sits in the driveway or garage for at least 14 hrs a day and charging at 10A adds around 50 miles of range per day. Plenty for daily errands and such. Looking forward to my Aptera though as we will be able to just let it sit in a sunny driveway and get 40 miles.
That’s why God invented extension cords! 😂 (Even though your local electrician may not recommend it.)
When you think about it, if you run out of petrol/gas you have to spend time and effort getting a gallon to get you to the nearest filling station. If you run out of power in an ev you just have to find the nearest kind person with a plug socket. Saw Matt Watson do exactly that in one of his range tests!
Well the places it is difficult to find a functioning electrical outlet currently are mostly along the side of the road. I have seen a couple in London, I have seen an extension cord across the pavement from a pub in rural Australia, they do exist but I have seen many more Tesla Superchargers then functioning electrical outlets available to cars on the roadside.
@@judebrown4103 I have noticed that some of the light poles in parking lots have outlets at their bases. Never had to resort to that but it's good to keep in the back of your mind. If you do try that though always ask permission of an employee before plugging in your vehicle.
Daimler should toss Aptera the $50,000,000 seeing as
1) it’s chump change to them
2) they did it for Tesla
3) they just spent a ton of money designing their most aerodynamic EV (EQXX) and it’s not as slippery as Aptera…
I agree Wyatt. I was thinking it's a great opportunity for Elon to give back as he received December 23, 2008 (pretty close). As a Tesla stock holder I'd take the hit that $100 million would cause.
I live in Texas....i love the car.....but ...it is quite easy for me to put over 100 miles a day....plus...Dallas to Austin...or San Antonio....oy....plus I do like to do road trips.....
Thanks Nikki, I always look forward for your take on what's happening. Of course the next question after "Yes." to the DC charging option is; Will we have access to Vehicle to Grid or house power? Access to 30 or 40 KW downstairs in the carport when the powers out would be very nice.
Especially as it is solar powered.
LOL! No way! I have attempted to point out from the beginning, that feeding power back into a significant load is not as simple as everyone thinks. Example, look at Nikki's last video about all the extension cords needed for her truck to power the house, because Ford's external inverter and the home cut-off switches aren't working yet.
Despite what everyone claims, V2G and V2H are not economically justifiable to most people because of the expense of the support hardware and installation costs.
Aptera has expressed support for the idea of V2G, but not before there are more standardized implementations available to them.
@@TeslaDo_d For those considering something like a Tesla Powerwall, having your EV do double duty can make a lot of sense, and might justify a larger battery than you would consider for your usual vehicle needs alone. The tech is not quite there yet, however.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Support? As in a cheerleader? Or as in an investor?
Anyone can be a cheerleader. Especially when they don’t fully understand what’s needed to accomplish the task.
In order to perform V2H, your H needs to be completely disconnected from the G. Then you will need an expensive inverter which will provide a nice smooth sine wave for your picky appliances inside your H.
In order to perform V2G, it will require a more expensive ‘grid tie’ inverter to perform the sine wave timing and to micro step the voltage slightly higher than the incoming voltages so that the current can flow out.
All of this is not financially justifiable for most everyone, but it might be for Nikki and her business and living in a location that has frequent interruptions.
Nikki, fell back to V2L in order to ‘power her home’. V2L is easy as there is one source and one load in the circuit. V2L is something that is financially viable and should be a standard on all new EVs. But one day, some ‘smarty’ is going to put a male plug on both sides of an extension cord and back feed the V2L directly to their entire H circuit box. Nikki will have the pleasure of reporting on the resulting fire and then describing why this shouldn’t have been done…and how Tesla should fix it for everyone.
Love your vintage Mac collection!
I honestly didn't care about fast charging, but I'm not getting the launch edition and I don't think I'd need it. I know a lot people were angry and I think it's really cool that Aptera listened and made it standard. I won't be getting this vehicle anytime soon, as I don't have the cash to pay for it, but I am looking forward to owning one someday. The concept of an SEV is amazing, the car looks awesome (except the Hello Kitty steering wheel), and I love how open and transparent the company is. 🙂
Good presentation, thanks Nikki. One thing, with regard to your particular situation, you mentioned refinancing and getting a lower monthly payment to go along with your new solar loan.
You didn't mention amortization. If you had been paying on your original home loan for a while you were just starting to pay off principal.
With the new home loan you're back to square one with regard to paying principle with your monthly payments. You have to take that into consideration also. Refinancing is usually bad.
Here's a trick. Get a home equity line of credit, And pay off your mortgage. The interest rate will be slightly higher, but it's a simple interest loan and you will start paying off principal from the very beginning. This works best if you only keeping your house for Less than 10 years.
First the correction. At about 7:40 you assert stopping for an hour to pick up another 100 miles. Of course it’s only 57 miles per hour per their advert.
That really gets to the pale that they went beyond also. At typical US highway speeds, you are likely to travel more than 57 miles in an hour. So the prospect of charging for an hour, and then still not being able to drive for another hour is crossing a line of unacceptability for a lot of EV drivers even with modest expectations.
I have a question for you. Out of all the vehicles you have test driven, owned, filmed, etc., which EV vehicle do you think is the best? Based on all pros and cons of each vehicle. I’m just curious. I think I’d love to see a video like that.
How would you even compare a Fiat 500e to a Rivian R1T ? The question makes no sense. Different cars for different needs.
@@geraldh.8047 thank you for your kindness and understanding of my question. I appreciate your input.
@@joeyvinzo4531 you’re welcome! 😉
Interesting the video showing DCFC also shows them using CCS
Nikki. I could agree with Aptera to keep it simple if they had used the J3068 charging standard. This would allow AC Level 2 charging rates of up to 24kW in the USA and 31kW in Canada.
Now that they have shown that they are willing to listen to customers, maybe we can address the interior quality.
It was a blunder, to not have it as an option.
It ads value to the car and most people were expecting it.
They reacted quickly and correctly.
Yes. But it is a bit more complicated. It also affects the battery chemistry. A Porsche taycan has a different chemistry that can handle faster charging. It has more buffer above the useable capacity and handling higher currents comes with the cost of lower energy density.
@@stefanweilhartner4415 no it doesn't.
FC just means you can use DC external chargers, the battery pack tells the max charge it wants.
@@stefanweilhartner4415 omg what are you talking about?
It makes little sense to omit fast charging, as it requires almost no hardware, just a connector and contactor - the charger does most of the work, unlike AC charging which uses dedicated charging hardware in the vehicle.
The only case where it can be an issue is where the battery pack voltage is quite low, like on motorbikes, as the CCS standard has a minimum working voltage of 200V. I wonder if this may be the case for Aptera, as a lower pack voltage may simplify things for the solar charging.
Aptera battery pack will be between 3-400 volts.
I agree. I ordered my Aptera with the option to go on road trips & without DC rapid charging reduces the practicality. A CCS adapter opens the car up to every charge point in the EU
In the EU they really have to equip the car with a CCS port. With NACS (Europe isn't North America) you would have to drag along adapters all the time. You run the risk of breaking things, of losing them, ... . No, if the car doesn't come with CCS natively, don't bother bringing it to Europe.
I really hope they go to full production. It would be a shame if they went bankrupt.
And if Sandy Monroe says they’re good, you know they are.
I wouldn't exactly say that. Sandy wasn't big on Tesla until he bought their stock. Aptera is about the same. He's typically down on brands that don't buy his services so his advise always comes with a good sized grain of salt.
@@davidmccarthy6061 The thing to know about Sandy is that he was an associate of Dr. Deming, who was the force behind the Japanese "economic miracle". Sandy also managed the Dodge Viper production line. He has deep experience in what it takes to do efficient production.
@@n.brucenelson5920 "He has deep experience in what it takes to do efficient production" He does, but he also talks a certain amount of bollocks sometimes. And his views on repairability are just shocking: he doesn't give a toss, and consistently advocates for large unrepairable assemblies. That is of course cheaper to manufacture and good for parts sales later, but it's terrible for the environment. Minimising front-end cost is not the only important consideration, and the world would be much improved if people like Mr Munroe acknowledged this.
@Vlasko60 'Safe' is not a binary thing. Something is rarely simply 'safe' or 'unsafe'. It's a matter of 'how safe', and how safe is acceptable varies dramatically between people. Some would never go in a 1980s vehicle, never mind a hang-glider. Others are fine with those things. Some won't use anything that doesn't get 5 stars on the vehicle test. Cars are particularly odd as to some degree it's a relative measure. Smaller cars are perfectly safe on their own, but rather less so when surrounded by huge vehicles 3 times the weight. Trying to maximise personal safety beyond a certain level tends to fuel the crazy trend towards ever-larger-and-heavier vehicles.
I put my money down on an Aptera in 2008. They promised to get right to developing a production version over all other goals. Then they got caught up in raising money, lost their sights on what they promised, and failed. Eventually I got some of my money back. It absolutely kills me that when they started back up, that they never thought of getting a hold of the original backers and maybe offering something (anything). Chevy on the other hand didn't disappoint me with my 2017 Bolt - seven years without a single problem and now I have a new battery with a new 8 year warranty. Waiting on you Aptera... Not optimistic.
> "getting a hold of the original backers"
Perhaps not as easy as it sounds. The founders had been pushed out of the Original Aptera so no longer had any rights to the company's data. In fact, if they had taken a copy of it, they could have been sued / convicted for taking trade secrets...
@Wyndstryke is correct. The founders were pushed out in 2009 and kicked off the board by a single vote. The Detroit team that was hired to start production kept putting it off when the founders had been pushing to get started. They had other plans and wanted to produce a 4 wheel vehicle instead. They never brought in financing of their own, and liquidated the company in 2011.
At this point in time, Aptera Corp is much further ahead in the process than Tesla was when they got started, both financially and technically. I don't know that I would say I am optimistic - they still need $50 million to start production in a tough economy - but I am hopeful.
I was a backer back then as well and they did contact me. It was through email in 2019, maybe yours went to spam? I gave it another shot and invested again as I do believe they are genuinely trying to get a super efficient and cost effective vehicle out into the world.
I have a $100 down payment? On an Aptera. For what I would use the car for I don't need fast charging. The only reason I might is to show off and drive the car a long ways to a friends house to show off. All show.....I don't need it locally for sure and I have other cars for long distance transport which are probably much better long distance cars. I mean comfort wise.
Good aero is especially useful for road tripping imo. Not having quick charging kills this use case... 50kw would be enough... or at least 11kw dc not 7 :( Hopefully there is still a lot of interest in it
Why would anyone employ the NACS plug type and not include fast charging?
It does not make sense.
The biggest complaint I hear from people I know when it comes to EV’s is charge time. So few people have stopped to think about how long they are stopped when they do and even fewer have a realistic idea of how often they’ll stop. If they see level 2 only on a car and work out the 0-100% charge time many will instantly walk.
Sure, aptera is a type of vehicle most people probably don’t want to drive 600 miles a day in but as we can see here, when buying new cars people don’t ask if the should drive that far in a car or even if they would enjoy it. They ask if they could. No DC fast charge means no cross country road trip, and no purchase!
There are many thoughts I have but baseline... I hope many more reservation holders join the ranks and we all help lighten Steve and Chris's load in fundraising. Aptera is proof we can refute the recent report an increasing number American electric cars need increasingly more batteries, adding increasing weight to move vehicles completely heedless of the amount of lithium mining effects on the environment.
Secondly I while I do appreciate the physical Tesla plug and its power to charge I am definitely uneasy about its future. Definitely. Good news is I Can live without it if push came to shove.
Generally agree but I feel I should point out that reservation fees do nothing to lighten the load for fundraising. Reservation fees are held in escrow (required by law to satisfy the guarantee of refund-ability) so that money is not useable by the company before the vehicle sale actually goes through. That is part of why I also invested.
I may average 30 miles per day there are a few days a month where I have to travel over 400 miles.
The trade off to me seems to be that adding fast charging means production will be further behind schedule, and it will be more likely the company will collapse before producing anything.
What we're they thinking with that decision , flexibility and range is the biggest selling point of the vehicle . Even with a fossil fuel car there must have been a time over your years of driving when you have misjudged your range and had to make an unplanned top up . If not you've been fortunate enough never to really venture beyond your local area . Fast charging ability on an EV is a must and also utilising the predominant connection charger to vehicle network in that country . Surely not to much to ask
With rent high non-afordable homes with outrageous Taxes Car's are now living Quarters!
Fast charging is needed for long highway trips. My question is, is this vehicle appropriate for long highway trips on a road with many heavy, fast vehicles? Its occupants could not survive a crash with a Ram pickup truck, much less a Mack truck. Aptera’s high efficiency requires a light shell around passengers, which needs less force to crush than conventional vehicle designs.
Decide when you see the results of the 3rd party FMVSS Part 200 crash tests that will be performed on the production intent vehicles being assembled now.
I reserved as soon as I heard the news. I wouldn't buy an electric vehicle without fast charging of some sort. If all goes well, the Aptera will replace my 2009 Mazda 3i and 2018 Suzuki M109r, leaving me with only an electric motorcycle and the Aptera. The dream of no more gas for travel for this Texan is almost a reality, and it's only possible because they've made this better decision.
I was quite keen on this vehicle but we still don't know if we can drive it on Australian roads or what it'll be registered as. Is it a motorcycle, a car or a plane? Given that we're in 230V land and the solar panels on the roof charging was never going to be much of an issue anyway. I'd imagine people in the UK would be in the same boat. Now my biggest concern is the company going to grow into a ongoing business. The talk of needing $millions to stay afloat is more of a concern than the charging issue.
It's "legally" a motorcycle. And obviously it will arrive in north america first, I imagine 2 years down the line they will have a clearer idea of the regulation hurdles to bring it to the EU or Australia.
As for the money they don't have a sugar daddy so they've been advancing conservatively on that, they have proved at every step they can deliver, so it shouldn't be a massive issue to get the next round of funding.
Australia is going to make its own decision about what it is. I very much suspect the steering wheel will have to be switched to the other side. Which means it’s going to be a very long time before it gets here. Us, India , Japan and the UK are not going to be high on the exports list.
Even in the US, it is not always classed as a motorcycle. There's a category called "autocycle" for 3 wheel vehicles. Vehicle classifications vary, but I've never heard of any 3-wheeler being classed as an automobile. FWIW.
@@feandil666 The "legal" definition depends on the jurisdiction and will vary from country to country.
@@francesconicoletti2547 RHD has already been designed, and is a rather minor part of the homologation changes that may be required for some countries.
In theory the hardware is much simpler for Supercharging vs CCS... Single wire CAN is definitely simpler than the CCS...mess. so as long as they can get an agreement on billing customers, this should be pretty easy for them to get it to work, assuming they have access to how the protocol works vs reverse engineering it...
CCS isn't single-wire CAN? I thought it was.
@@ps.2 nope, it uses something like power line networking..look up HomePlug GreenPhy and it just gets worse from there... A weird binary tokenized XML thing, I think IPv6...it's an order of magnitude more complicated unfortunately.
@@Mattstech12 It's not that compicated and on a hardware level not that complex or difficult. Don't forget that NACS, which Aptera is most likely going to use, is essentially CCS with a Tesla plug.
@@Hans-gb4mv Having reverse engineered the charge port controller in the model 3, I respectfully disagree with your assessment.
I think *SLOW* DCFC is a fair compromise on the Aptera. Even going down to the absolute minimum DCFC speeds (even sub-Bolt EV speeds).
Given the pack size, and the focus on efficiency, a slow DCFC is better than no DCFC on a small pack and opens roadside chargers to usage.
Much like the DCFC on the Chevy Bolt?
Btw, love watching and very informative.
I dunno. Toyota recently tried to release a vehicle with self removing wheels and then went back and relaunched with standard wheels you have to take off manually.
That copper strap in the video and the bigger cable needed means the cost to produce goes up. Have you checked the price of copper lately?
I see you lost some weight since I last saw some of your videos. It's working for you. Keep it up!
Tesla is trialling access to their chargers by other car makers in the UK - I've charged my MG at a Tesla showroom. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.
Thank you.
- - gimmie gimmie gimmie .....MY APTERA ALREADY! 💥😅⚡🔌
Up.
Up was the direction in which their action was pointed.
Yup. Up.
Thanks for the video. Old Macs and Apple are wonderful - if the RTC battery hasn't eaten away the PCB traces :/
Until Aptera’s principal’s come out and explicitly say “Aptera has contracted for owner access to Tesla supercharging network”, we all will still be buying both CCS -> NACS and J1772 -> NACS adapters to make sure we’ve got charging access regardless of type available.
And due to access charges, many of us will still do this in any case.
Truly amazing that no fast charging was ever even considered.....like going to a top restaurant only to be restricted to the child’s menu!!
I have an old SE from ‘87 you can have. I sold the keyboard and mouse though and it doesn’t startup since the HD is dead.
Well done Nikki, this was a case of not understanding your customers. Range is a big problem for EV's in the mind of people who are interested in going there and it doesn't matter if engineers like Sandy think it shouldn't be. Plus most people don't have a selection of different types of car in their garage and can go for the one that best does the job for today's usage, so any vehicle they own must be multi purpose.
What I can't figure out is: what changed between Friday and Monday that gave them this "line of sight" that they say was crucial in their decision to move forward with DC fast charging?
It sounds more like either they always had the choice and are embarrassed that they made the wrong decision at first, or they still face major challenges that they don't want to acknowledge.
No it's a calculated decision too many didn't like, harming there reservations and there by the way to capital for praduction financing.
Of course Fast charging is useless daily, but the moment you need to go further then daily, then the need for fast charging is essential.
yeah mostly if going like a far road trip ...but for city use even 120v home outlet will be enough.. charge over night get about 100+ miles and get another maybe 25 to 30 miles solar while parked at work ..of course depending how the sun is ..
The PowerBook!
part of the problem of trying to build what customers want, is that customers will change their minds (some times from day to day), and most dont really know what they want, unless of course they have a favorite band.
Interesting that Aptera never expected their drivers to road trip in the vehicles. Based on the shape and size of them, I could understand why, but they'll do well to include fast charging.
This is puzzling. The main reason why I'm interested in Aptera is precisely that it looks useable for long trips. Although I will probably wait for a model with more seats.
(I have public transport and a bike for short distances. Central Europe.)
@@matejlieskovsky9625 I was thinking that they don't look to have much storage capacity for suitcases.
@@melissamybubbles6139 32 cu ft plus of storage.