I applaud negativity. I need to know whether to buy it or not. And there are too many games in existence for me to play, let alone buy. Yet relentless positivity generates more hits.
For Zee to not like a co-op game from Matt Leacock, you know they done messed something up. I'm glad they were honest in their review of this hugely hyped release. Great job guys, I will pass on this one and pick up desert and island instead
HypnoticSorin gotta say just throwing a different opinion in there, I really enjoyed this game. It’s very fun to me and I think Desert actually has some convoluted rules that make it hard to bring to the table for newcomers. This game May be more difficult but it’s definitely easier to learn and to me more fun.
You don't have to agree with Zee, but you have to appreciate his reasoning. I find it always very helpful to make up my own mind. Plus, he respects other opinions.
One more thing : the starting tile is one single long piece of cardboard... Why dont the clouds in the background match ??? It's like they were initially designed as three separate tiles, and then someone last minute decided they needed to be one single tile and didnt bother to fix the art so it looks good. SOOOOO BAD.
I was killed this weekend in forbidden desert by running out of water in between turns. I haven’t played this one yet, so maybe that is more likely here. But dying in between turns can definitely happen forbidden desert.
I was worried when I saw some of the components and early gameplay vids, but I remained hopeful cuase I love both Desert and Island. After seeing the whole run-through and hearing both sides, I got to say I'm glad I went with my gut and held off. I'm a huge fan of co-ops like Zee, and if he is extremely disappointed in a co-op, you know it's bad. Such a bummer. great review guys
After seeing this game play and reviewed by other TH-cam channels, something about this game I just didn't like. I couldn't agree more with Zee and Tom about their Final thoughts.
I think the hard pill to swallow for this one is that you have 2 ways that you can die in this one and there isn't much you can do about either. In Desert you only had to worry about the Sun. The sand could be mitigated, but it wasn't killer if you let it build up in some spots. Here you have to deal with Lightning and Wind. So you have to manage 2 separate elements to make sure that you don't die. This is rough. I think to make the game easier you could remove part of the 6 lightning strikes to make the game easier. The rules should have been treated like Pandemic and if you want an easier game then remove some cards to make it easier.
The Chopper left Forbidden Island and crashed in the Forbidden Desert. Once you escape Forbidden Desert on Airship, you land on the Forbidden Sky landing pad - continuity. Gotta say I was excited for this but after seeing a few playthroughs I can't say I'm keen. Although I love Matt Leacock's games and forbidden/pandemic game style the wiring makes it too convaluted for me; I'm definitely not feeling this one.
As far as the "certain roles are necessary" negative point goes, did you honestly not feel that way about Forbidden Desert? Because I really think that issue exists there too. The Meteorologist and the Explorer both seem terrible when compared to the other roles and I couldn't imagine winning without the Water Carrier.
For me personally, after playing all three games in the series a few times now, Forbidden Sky is the best of the 3. It really is what I guess you'd call a thinking mans game. Theres a lot of decisions on where to position yourself for the wind, you know what cards are likely due to appear as well so that plays into your strategy, creating the platform and circuit and seeing it grow really gives you that sense of achievement with that satisfying ending. Plus it helps that the components are high quality, the rocket looks and sounds great and adds to the 3D presence on the table. Its challenging and very enjoyable to beat. Tbh Forbidden Desert is more frustrating actually. If you read this comment, please don't dismiss this great game. It looks great, offers challenge, highly tactical. Give it a go.
Again, the reviews a prefer are the ones like those. I love to be able to see different opinion at the same time about a central game. Loved the review
Yes. I would like to see all their reviews with all 3 of them at the table. I know that's more time intensive but the review is so much more helpful. That said, I really appreciated Sam's comments but I think I lean more toward Zee's camp; it just doesn't look fun. As pumped as I was when I heard about this, FS is going to be a pass for me.
Before they even said anything, I was saying, "Man, those tiles are ugly. And I'm not getting 'platform' at all." I'm not the biggest fan of Carcassonne, but at least it looks good as it expands.
To improve the fun of the game, or make it more fair. Id like to get your opinion on some changes that could be made to the game: when you start with one electric pylon have 1 lighting strike in the storm deck, and then as each new pylon is added to the game you shuffle in more lighting strike cards. or should each player take their turn with actions and then you just have 1 storm round. and then all the players take their actions again followed by just one storm drawing of cards. Would it be in the best interest in an update or redesign of the game to add in storm cards where nothing happens as a filler in the deck, the card could say something like "a moment of brief lull in the storm" I have not purchased this game yet, I am still undecided I just wanted to throw some ideas out to see what you guys think before I buy...
I saw this at Target when wandering around trying to find laundry detergent. I was right by toy dept. and thought I'd check out the games shelf and see if anything I liked went down in cost. I had not seen this before and just seeing it on the shelf I thought, "oh hey that looks cool, it has a kinda MYST kinda "HG Wells" adventure thing going on?!" So I thought I'd check out what you guys had to say about it before I spent money on something I didn't know anything about. lol Thanks.
I saw this video's length and incredulously thought there's no way they needed half an hour to talk about this game. And then I sat and watched them talk about it for half an hour, because the discussion was robust and useful. Very useful review. I appreciate the honesty, as it saves consumers from making poor decisions with their (usually) limited gaming budget. In case, I'm discovering all three Forbidden games at the same time and wanted to decide if there was a better game to either start with or simply jump straight to and skip the others. I thought this game might be the latter, maybe the third and therefore best installment of a series. Not so much. Zee's opinions here appear to match how i would respond if I actually played it.
I am not a fan of games where you can die before getting back to your turn without being able to do anything to stop/prevent it (also one of the many things I didn't like about Dead of Winter, which is on my "never want to play it again" list) so I'm really torn on this now.... 🤔
It's a shame that this didn't live up to their expectations, especially Zee's. He had a new Forbidden game as his idea for a sequel and asked for a cardboard box in top 10's. Here's the big thing I don't get: their description of how this is hard but not fun, frustrating, practically unwinnable if you don't luck out on characters and cards... was all exactly how Pandemic Legacy Season 2 was for me! Anyway, I was already wary of this one, and I think I'm just going to stick with Forbidden Desert. Leacock seems to be moving toward "hard" over "fun to play".
Desert is going to be hard to unseat... it has the fine balance of we win sometimes but not every time, and everyone feels useful... forbidden island was not that way at all the few times i played it and have moved to desert and haven't looked back.
i think this game is polarizing - you have people who really like it and people who really hate it. the same was true for the other 2 in the series. the aspects they mentioned they didn't like were also true for the others in the series. having said that, i think it really comes down to whether you're the type of person who likes these style games. for the record, it's absolutely intentional that you can screw yourself by placing things in the wrong place - that's what makes it cooperative, you have to all be invested and help each other make good choices
I was watching the explanation to this and it just sounded so ..... myeh. Outside of the toy factor, it had a feeling of been their and done that with the mechanisms.
Got to appreciate a review like this for a super hyped game, most reviewers would say something along the lines of "maybe I need to play it a bit more" when their heart is telling them this is a bad game, great review guys.
I've played a lot of 5-man attempts at this, and we're not even sure it's possible. At storm intensity 3-4, you're suffering *fifteen to twenty* storm cards between you and your next turn, every round. Just surviving next to the rocket for that long is a statistical improbability. It seems like it wasn't really playtested at all.
I have honestly been more excited for this game since it was announced than any other game and now I'm crushed. Every time I saw forbidden planet board game I got excited and then went oh NVM. Then they teased this and I was ecstatic... So sad it's not great. Maybe some good variants will fix the issues
I feel like I'm the only one who liked the tins that Forbidden Island and Desert came in :P :P I was massively disappointed that Sky was in a box since it wouldn't match (but I'm probably not going to get it anyways based off this review)
I completely aree with sam heely here. We always buy boxed science experiments...and to turn it into a game that simulates the consequences of getting struck by lightning keeps us on the edge of our seats, making us want to keep trying again. Just a matter of preferences. Applies the laws of physics, looks like a science experiment, this game is great for me. Optimum player count is 2, max 3, IMO.
Forbidden island aircraft crashes into forbidden desert. Forbidden desert craft flys to forbidden sky. Forbidden sky rocket flys to space and meets Forbidden Stars! Unleash the Chaos Marines.
Wow... the amount of disappointment in Zee's voice! You can literally feel how he really wanted to like the game. I too was excited and expecting way more from this one but that "electricity" gimmick and the Happy Meal rocket? Ouch! I'm definitely gonna pass... Thank for the honest review guys!
I’ve only played once but after I did it was an instant buy for me. I think $30 online is an incredible price for the game. Yes the rocket is gimmicky but I think it’s really cool and gives you a great sense of accomplishment when it happens. I didn’t find it that hard. Nobody at the table had played before, I was the only one who had played a “Forbidden” game before as well. I played with 3 and I agree it seems easier and possibly better with a lower player count. I didn’t find it that ugly, I like the rustic colors and palette. Idk for me I think this really fits the line and I agree with Sam, Forbidden Desert is my least favorite. They do follow a story though (loosely) and you can bet that me and my girlfriend will try to play a 3 in a row win starting with Forbidden Island and ending with Forbidden Sky. I can’t wait for Forbidden Space (or whatever the next will be called. Obviously the rocket is a hint). Long comment but yeah I loved it. It was in my top 5 I played at PAX.
Why wasn't it dark thunderclouds and any brightly colored material for the platform? Why did it need to be pink clouds? Ever seen pink in a thunderstorm? That just looks shitty.
"Thumbs" up and down?? Poppycock! What happened to 'one 1995 plastic pistol rocket down' or 'half of a Tesla tower up'!? Frankly I expect better banter gentlemen, and for that reason, I must give this review one lightning rod down... 🧐
My family truly loved the first 2 games. The price for this game has been slashed practically everywhere probably due to this review. Who would take a chance at buying this game for around 40 bucks with a review like this. But 20 bucks maybe. I remember these guys gave a bad review to ticket to ride rails and sails so I did not buy it for years. The price dropped so I bought it. As far as my family is concerned it is the best one. Its longer to play. But time flies by. My guess with the next forbidden game is that the theme is always stuck somewhere because of something went wrong. So I say they never make it to space instead its forbidden ocean or like previously mentioned forbidden jungle.
A ROCKET SHIP??? I thought you were trying to survive and get back to civilization, in these games. Obviously, I was wrong and you're escaping from some sort of apocalypse that has devastated earth...
Really enjoyed listening to the discussion on this one. I have been looking for it to get it as I have the other 2 forbidden games and was hoping this would enjoyed as much. However after listening to this review as well as watching the game play on Game Night this one is going to be a hard pass. The only reason that I would get this one now would be to try and put this and the other 2 forbidden games all in this one box if they fit.
Everyone here seems to be shitting on how "ugly" this game is... but very few comments about actual game play Sure, the wiring mechanics are limited in terms of where/how you can place them but that just adds a layer of complexity and strategy to the game. This is another level up in terms of difficulty and strategy in the forbidden series. I think its a great addition.
When they played this with the BGG crew, they seemed to like it, but I was watching them play and it did look a little underwhelming to me. I might give it a try one day when it comes to the bargain bin ;)
It's a pity, I was really excited but after seeing it and hearing an explanation of the rules I felt like it was really bad. The good news is that Sam now owns a new game he likes ^^.
I call the orange wires Magnetti. Here's my ideas for the future: Forbidden Dungeon (Dungeons and Dragons themed) Forbidden Mansion (Cthulhu themed) Forbidden Lab (Pandemic themed) Forbidden House (Betrayal at House on the Hill themed)
Game needs 1-2 more cards in the weather deck - "Clear Skies" (nothing happens) or two more winds change, one of each direction. This would downplay the random damage aspect some which frustrates so much. 7 straight losses on Novice - not enough actions; tile placement is scripted. I want to love the game, and I like hard games, but you should win at least once on the novice level after 7 tries, right? The arbitrary limit of 3 max tiles in hand (should be 4 or 5) forces decision-making which can set you way off track if you have bad tiles ("gotta find a place to throw down this tile so I can empty my hand to maybe get the tile I need"). No official "pick your character" option - officially, it's randomize. You change any one of these aspects and the game is better. Really makes me wonder about how much playtesting went into it. I came up with 5 suggestions right there that make this game more playable and increases player agency; this should have been worked through playtesting enough to change at least one of these aspects.
I'm not so sure that they did very effective playtesting on this one. I love Desert and Island and was really looking forward to this one but WOW! So many problems. :( I just spent the better part of my day playtesting it on the Novice level with 3 players. After hours of attempts and strategies, I didn't come close to winning this game even once. There's just not enough actions per turn to counter all of the things that are stacking up against you. And it's too hard to acquire Equipment cards while simultaneously trying to create circuit spots. The wind and lightning are easy enough to escape through the first few rounds but by the time you're having to draw 3 or more Storm cards per turn, you're toast. I still think this game could be a lot of fun if it's tweaked a bit to make things easier and more fair. But until I can figure it out, I'll hold back on introducing others to this game. Yikes! :/
I agree with Tom and Zee. This game looks ugly. I could only watch a demo for a couple minutes at Gen Con. I was pretty sure I would buy it, but after seeing how ugly it was, I decided I’m going to wait until I can actually play and know for a fact that I love it. I hope I’ll like the game, but it is ugly enough that I think I’m going to have to love the gameplay to want my own copy..
MV videos are always better with Zee in them! … though there is an overall bad mood vibe threading through this video. I can see why … expectations for a game which has such a stellar pedigree are high and disappointment even higher when it fails to deliver.
Absolutely love all your reviews. However, they seem to drag on and on when it is a negative review. Do not feel bad about giving negative reviews when they deserve it (Siskel and Ebert made a career out of it). Do not waste time trying to find ways to sugarcoat it. Just say it as it is. This particular review lasted 10 minutes longer than it had to because of all the wasted time trying to find ways to put a positive spin on something that did not deserve it. The game is an absolute fail and we all know it. Just come out and say it.
This is a tough sell for me, being so visually unappealing. I play these Forbidden games with my kids and the visual factor is very important. This game looks ugly and hell and no gimmicky electronic rocket bling bling can salvage it.
I'm tired of this "It's the designer's fault for the Alpha Gamer issues!" It's always the argument for co-op puzzle games and it's dumb. The designers cannot design around the fact that not everyone at the table can solve puzzles equally. That's like blaming a designer for creating a game that "Only people who are good at it can win!" It's the same exact logical concept - certain players will be better than others - but you'd never hear that complaint being made over a competitive game. Designers cannot make people smarter. Designers cannot keep smarter people from telling others the correct way to play. Alpha Gaming is a people problem. The end.
I still think it's valuable information to point out how susceptible a game is to the alpha gamer problem. That way groups that have issues with an alpha gamer either know to steer away from it or they at least know they need to be mindful of their alpha gamer when playing it.
That's simply not completely true. Some designs lend itself more towards alphagaming and others actively try to avoid it. Like in Magic Maze, where you cannot talk and the alpha gamer remains silent, which the designer said himself he only implemented to kill the alpha gamer problem. The game is fun with some talking too btw. But that right here is a perfect counterexample for your stubborn and narrow-minded argumentation. When the desginer actively changes something or is even able to change something to reduce alphagaming, it's clearly not only the peoples problem. Sure you first need an alpha gamer to encounter this matter, of course, but that's obvious mate. The key is that it is oftentimes not just the peoples misbehaviour, which is what Tom is saying. Nobody says that it is _only_ the games fault, you've got to put this thought out of your head as quickly as possible. It's not either or, it's both.
I disagree, I think game design can remove alpha gaming. At least to some extent. To remove alpha gaming, the best method is choice. If there's multiple objectives that need to be done, an alpha gamer might say "Do A" but the person might choose B or C. Robinson Crusoe is excellent at this. Do you explore or gather or hunt etc. This game sounds like it has limited choices, which is what Tom / Zee said. You either put that tile there or we lose.
@@johng7410 The thing is, there are some games where the Alpha Gamer problem is simply unavoidable. In order to remove the potential of the Alpha Gamer from Pandemic, you'd need to fundamentally change the design of the game. Pandemic is a great game that a lot of people love, so the design of that game doesn't need to change. However, people who have groups where alpha gaming is a problem need to know that and know that Pandemic probably isn't the right game for them. Designing a game that reduces the impact of the Alpha Gamer is a great goal, but I don't think every cooperative game needs to worry about it because not every group has an alpha gamer problem and it's unfair to them to limit the potential design spaces that designers and developers explore. To sum up, the fact that a game is susceptible to the alpha gamer problem is an important thing for players with an Alpha Gamer susceptible grouped to be aware of, but it shouldn't necessarily be viewed as a purely negative feature of the game. Just like the fact that a game is complex and susceptible to AP is important for players with an AP susceptible group to be aware of, but it should necessarily be viewed as a purely negativ efeature of the game.
@@LookAtTheBacon Other than forcing limited communication in the rules, adding a real time element, or adding some level of competition (ie a traitor mechanic), there's nothing a designer can do to get rid of an alpha gamer problem. You can't make a Matt Leacock style game - fully cooperative, complete information, no time limit - without having the potential for an alpha gamer. Because if you have a puzzle where everyone has all the info, some people are always going to be better at the puzzle than others
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Reviews like this one is what Dice Tower is here to do for me: warn me about highly hyped game being bad before I decide to buy them. Good job, guys.
I applaud negativity. I need to know whether to buy it or not. And there are too many games in existence for me to play, let alone buy. Yet relentless positivity generates more hits.
I couldn't agree more!
Zee not liking a Matt Leacock game?! What's this world coming to?!
R.O. Bot THAT string game (Knit Wit) was the beginning of the end.
I think he likes a good game over designers more
This is awesome, negative reviews are super helpful and it seems Dice Tower is one of the very few channels that is giving them openly. Thanks guys!
Zee has that whole, "I'm not mad, I'm disappointed..." thing going on this whole review. I genuinely feel like I've done something wrong :P
I sat myself in the corner and but a dunce cap on...
Sam looked so sad, hugs for Sam.
"Everybody: Zee! why did you put that part there? we cannot close the circuit and we all going to die now. Zee: guys ... because I am the traitor."
For Zee to not like a co-op game from Matt Leacock, you know they done messed something up. I'm glad they were honest in their review of this hugely hyped release. Great job guys, I will pass on this one and pick up desert and island instead
HypnoticSorin gotta say just throwing a different opinion in there, I really enjoyed this game. It’s very fun to me and I think Desert actually has some convoluted rules that make it hard to bring to the table for newcomers. This game May be more difficult but it’s definitely easier to learn and to me more fun.
Sam missed a pun while saying "there's a lot of negativity at the table." He should of responded with "so I'm going to stay positively charged."
Sounds like a Zee response.
The look Tom gives the camera at like 20:05 is so golden.
You don't have to agree with Zee, but you have to appreciate his reasoning. I find it always very helpful to make up my own mind. Plus, he respects other opinions.
One more thing : the starting tile is one single long piece of cardboard... Why dont the clouds in the background match ??? It's like they were initially designed as three separate tiles, and then someone last minute decided they needed to be one single tile and didnt bother to fix the art so it looks good.
SOOOOO BAD.
I was killed this weekend in forbidden desert by running out of water in between turns. I haven’t played this one yet, so maybe that is more likely here. But dying in between turns can definitely happen forbidden desert.
I was worried when I saw some of the components and early gameplay vids, but I remained hopeful cuase I love both Desert and Island. After seeing the whole run-through and hearing both sides, I got to say I'm glad I went with my gut and held off. I'm a huge fan of co-ops like Zee, and if he is extremely disappointed in a co-op, you know it's bad.
Such a bummer. great review guys
After seeing this game play and reviewed by other TH-cam channels, something about this game I just didn't like. I couldn't agree more with Zee and Tom about their Final thoughts.
I think the hard pill to swallow for this one is that you have 2 ways that you can die in this one and there isn't much you can do about either. In Desert you only had to worry about the Sun. The sand could be mitigated, but it wasn't killer if you let it build up in some spots. Here you have to deal with Lightning and Wind. So you have to manage 2 separate elements to make sure that you don't die. This is rough. I think to make the game easier you could remove part of the 6 lightning strikes to make the game easier. The rules should have been treated like Pandemic and if you want an easier game then remove some cards to make it easier.
This game looks like it could get mixed in with a pile of games from the 1950s and no one could tell the difference from the components, lol.
The Chopper left Forbidden Island and crashed in the Forbidden Desert. Once you escape Forbidden Desert on Airship, you land on the Forbidden Sky landing pad - continuity. Gotta say I was excited for this but after seeing a few playthroughs I can't say I'm keen. Although I love Matt Leacock's games and forbidden/pandemic game style the wiring makes it too convaluted for me; I'm definitely not feeling this one.
And you take the rocket from Forbidden Skies to ... Forbidden Planet?
That toy rocketship does sound like a 1995 plastic lazer pistol lol
As far as the "certain roles are necessary" negative point goes, did you honestly not feel that way about Forbidden Desert? Because I really think that issue exists there too. The Meteorologist and the Explorer both seem terrible when compared to the other roles and I couldn't imagine winning without the Water Carrier.
Thanks for the review. Was looking forward to this, but guess I'll try it at a board game cafe first.
Uh oh, I rarely view games differently from Zee... I was really looking forward to this one, now I’m nervous. :/ Thank you guys though!
For me personally, after playing all three games in the series a few times now, Forbidden Sky is the best of the 3.
It really is what I guess you'd call a thinking mans game. Theres a lot of decisions on where to position yourself for the wind, you know what cards are likely due to appear as well so that plays into your strategy, creating the platform and circuit and seeing it grow really gives you that sense of achievement with that satisfying ending. Plus it helps that the components are high quality, the rocket looks and sounds great and adds to the 3D presence on the table. Its challenging and very enjoyable to beat.
Tbh Forbidden Desert is more frustrating actually. If you read this comment, please don't dismiss this great game. It looks great, offers challenge, highly tactical. Give it a go.
20:02
Tom Vassel's face expression after Sam Healey's comment ^^
Expectations were too high it seems. Almost got this at Gen Con but I think I will stick with Pandemic.
Again, the reviews a prefer are the ones like those. I love to be able to see different opinion at the same time about a central game. Loved the review
Yes. I would like to see all their reviews with all 3 of them at the table. I know that's more time intensive but the review is so much more helpful.
That said, I really appreciated Sam's comments but I think I lean more toward Zee's camp; it just doesn't look fun. As pumped as I was when I heard about this, FS is going to be a pass for me.
The intro music alone makes me want to visit Miami!
I would've preferred a Forbidden Jungle game instead in a plant and animal heavy environment.
Forbidden Planet? :D
TheLuminousCleric I think that name's trademarked already
Maybe the crew's kitschy plastic rocket will crash in the jungle, and youve got to play pandemic to escape. Matt Leacock loves to milk pandemic.
Vibrating Bilbo That's true for better or worse
I can understand the excitement around this game... but it looks really ugly & that awful gimmick rocket looks like it came with a Happy Meal.
I don't think it's particularly unappealing aesthetically. It's very Myst-like to me, which has a certain novelty and, personally, a nostalgic appeal.
Before they even said anything, I was saying, "Man, those tiles are ugly. And I'm not getting 'platform' at all." I'm not the biggest fan of Carcassonne, but at least it looks good as it expands.
you're so right. So ugly...
I bought it 'cause I'm a huge fan of his games but, yeah... WHY is it so ugly xD
To improve the fun of the game, or make it more fair. Id like to get your opinion on some changes that could be made to the game: when you start with one electric pylon have 1 lighting strike in the storm deck, and then as each new pylon is added to the game you shuffle in more lighting strike cards.
or should each player take their turn with actions and then you just have 1 storm round. and then all the players take their actions again followed by just one storm drawing of cards.
Would it be in the best interest in an update or redesign of the game to add in storm cards where nothing happens as a filler in the deck, the card could say something like "a moment of brief lull in the storm" I have not purchased this game yet, I am still undecided I just wanted to throw some ideas out to see what you guys think before I buy...
This was one of the best reviews ive ever seem
I saw this at Target when wandering around trying to find laundry detergent.
I was right by toy dept. and thought I'd check out the games shelf and see if anything I liked went down in cost.
I had not seen this before and just seeing it on the shelf I thought, "oh hey that looks cool, it has a kinda MYST kinda "HG Wells" adventure thing going on?!"
So I thought I'd check out what you guys had to say about it before I spent money on something I didn't know anything about. lol
Thanks.
Damn. The only one who likes it is the one crazy enough to prefer Forbidden Island to Forbidden Desert.
I saw this video's length and incredulously thought there's no way they needed half an hour to talk about this game. And then I sat and watched them talk about it for half an hour, because the discussion was robust and useful.
Very useful review. I appreciate the honesty, as it saves consumers from making poor decisions with their (usually) limited gaming budget. In case, I'm discovering all three Forbidden games at the same time and wanted to decide if there was a better game to either start with or simply jump straight to and skip the others. I thought this game might be the latter, maybe the third and therefore best installment of a series. Not so much. Zee's opinions here appear to match how i would respond if I actually played it.
wow those treasure hunters from Forbidden Island can't catch a break!
I am not a fan of games where you can die before getting back to your turn without being able to do anything to stop/prevent it (also one of the many things I didn't like about Dead of Winter, which is on my "never want to play it again" list) so I'm really torn on this now.... 🤔
It's a shame that this didn't live up to their expectations, especially Zee's. He had a new Forbidden game as his idea for a sequel and asked for a cardboard box in top 10's. Here's the big thing I don't get: their description of how this is hard but not fun, frustrating, practically unwinnable if you don't luck out on characters and cards... was all exactly how Pandemic Legacy Season 2 was for me! Anyway, I was already wary of this one, and I think I'm just going to stick with Forbidden Desert. Leacock seems to be moving toward "hard" over "fun to play".
Desert is going to be hard to unseat... it has the fine balance of we win sometimes but not every time, and everyone feels useful... forbidden island was not that way at all the few times i played it and have moved to desert and haven't looked back.
i think this game is polarizing - you have people who really like it and people who really hate it. the same was true for the other 2 in the series. the aspects they mentioned they didn't like were also true for the others in the series. having said that, i think it really comes down to whether you're the type of person who likes these style games. for the record, it's absolutely intentional that you can screw yourself by placing things in the wrong place - that's what makes it cooperative, you have to all be invested and help each other make good choices
I was watching the explanation to this and it just sounded so ..... myeh. Outside of the toy factor, it had a feeling of been their and done that with the mechanisms.
Got to appreciate a review like this for a super hyped game, most reviewers would say something along the lines of "maybe I need to play it a bit more" when their heart is telling them this is a bad game, great review guys.
I've played a lot of 5-man attempts at this, and we're not even sure it's possible. At storm intensity 3-4, you're suffering *fifteen to twenty* storm cards between you and your next turn, every round. Just surviving next to the rocket for that long is a statistical improbability. It seems like it wasn't really playtested at all.
I have honestly been more excited for this game since it was announced than any other game and now I'm crushed.
Every time I saw forbidden planet board game I got excited and then went oh NVM.
Then they teased this and I was ecstatic... So sad it's not great. Maybe some good variants will fix the issues
I feel like I'm the only one who liked the tins that Forbidden Island and Desert came in :P :P
I was massively disappointed that Sky was in a box since it wouldn't match (but I'm probably not going to get it anyways based off this review)
Yeah sorry Sam. You didn’t convince me. Especially when you said Forbidden Island was better than Forbidden Dessert. Wha??!!!!
I completely aree with sam heely here. We always buy boxed science experiments...and to turn it into a game that simulates the consequences of getting struck by lightning keeps us on the edge of our seats, making us want to keep trying again. Just a matter of preferences. Applies the laws of physics, looks like a science experiment, this game is great for me. Optimum player count is 2, max 3, IMO.
I love the rustic look of the tiles...and no it does not look like spaghetti to me. 😁👍
Seems like there is already a layer of oxidation on the metal components...
I guess I'll playing settlers again this week.
If Zee no likey, me no likey.
Thanks for the honest look at this game! I was looking forward to it. :(
Even from this review I think I will like this game better than dessert and island.
It doesn't look good at all indeed...
Forbidden island aircraft crashes into forbidden desert. Forbidden desert craft flys to forbidden sky. Forbidden sky rocket flys to space and meets Forbidden Stars! Unleash the Chaos Marines.
Wow... the amount of disappointment in Zee's voice! You can literally feel how he really wanted to like the game. I too was excited and expecting way more from this one but that "electricity" gimmick and the Happy Meal rocket? Ouch! I'm definitely gonna pass...
Thank for the honest review guys!
Poor Zee. He loves his Pandemic type games and he just seemed like someone died in this video.
I agree with Zee, game's fun from what I've seen but that artwork is super awful ... The last 2 were great! This - ugh ...
Desert is easily the best game of the three :)
I’ve only played once but after I did it was an instant buy for me. I think $30 online is an incredible price for the game. Yes the rocket is gimmicky but I think it’s really cool and gives you a great sense of accomplishment when it happens. I didn’t find it that hard. Nobody at the table had played before, I was the only one who had played a “Forbidden” game before as well. I played with 3 and I agree it seems easier and possibly better with a lower player count. I didn’t find it that ugly, I like the rustic colors and palette. Idk for me I think this really fits the line and I agree with Sam, Forbidden Desert is my least favorite. They do follow a story though (loosely) and you can bet that me and my girlfriend will try to play a 3 in a row win starting with Forbidden Island and ending with Forbidden Sky. I can’t wait for Forbidden Space (or whatever the next will be called. Obviously the rocket is a hint). Long comment but yeah I loved it. It was in my top 5 I played at PAX.
Why wasn't it dark thunderclouds and any brightly colored material for the platform? Why did it need to be pink clouds? Ever seen pink in a thunderstorm? That just looks shitty.
Thanks Guys! Fully agree with Zee.
Will not buy for sure.
"Thumbs" up and down?? Poppycock! What happened to 'one 1995 plastic pistol rocket down' or 'half of a Tesla tower up'!? Frankly I expect better banter gentlemen, and for that reason, I must give this review one lightning rod down... 🧐
My family truly loved the first 2 games. The price for this game has been slashed practically everywhere probably due to this review. Who would take a chance at buying this game for around 40 bucks with a review like this. But 20 bucks maybe. I remember these guys gave a bad review to ticket to ride rails and sails so I did not buy it for years. The price dropped so I bought it. As far as my family is concerned it is the best one. Its longer to play. But time flies by. My guess with the next forbidden game is that the theme is always stuck somewhere because of something went wrong. So I say they never make it to space instead its forbidden ocean or like previously mentioned forbidden jungle.
A ROCKET SHIP??? I thought you were trying to survive and get back to civilization, in these games. Obviously, I was wrong and you're escaping from some sort of apocalypse that has devastated earth...
So next is Forbidden Moon/Planet
Really enjoyed listening to the discussion on this one. I have been looking for it to get it as I have the other 2 forbidden games and was hoping this would enjoyed as much. However after listening to this review as well as watching the game play on Game Night this one is going to be a hard pass. The only reason that I would get this one now would be to try and put this and the other 2 forbidden games all in this one box if they fit.
I don’t find the table your playing on in this video on the geeknson homepage. Am I missing something?
Everyone here seems to be shitting on how "ugly" this game is... but very few comments about actual game play Sure, the wiring mechanics are limited in terms of where/how you can place them but that just adds a layer of complexity and strategy to the game. This is another level up in terms of difficulty and strategy in the forbidden series. I think its a great addition.
Finally someone who speaks English
It really looks like an early 90's game.
"Wizee Garcia"?
Thats a cool nickname, gonna call you Wizee now.
we want more miami dice. we want more miami dice.
When they played this with the BGG crew, they seemed to like it, but I was watching them play and it did look a little underwhelming to me. I might give it a try one day when it comes to the bargain bin ;)
It's a pity, I was really excited but after seeing it and hearing an explanation of the rules I felt like it was really bad. The good news is that Sam now owns a new game he likes ^^.
Matt Leacock will be crying himself to sleep on his giant piles of money after this one.
Ghost Stories is a great game and I love it. However often the game is lost on setup and you can do nothing about it.
Anyone else guest their next game will be called "Forbidden Space"
Forbidden Moon was the title that popped into my head watching this.
Forbidden Planet!
These boys do realize there are tiles preventing you to get blown away by the wind, right ?
Sam the contrarian putting Desert below sky.
Looks definitely like a try before you buy game. And more likely just try, not buy.
The game looks terrible. And these are even colors I like. But it looks TERRIBLE.
Also, I was very worried about the gameplay after seeing a demo.
Ok, I am out and the game went off my list immediately. What a pity. I had high hopes...
still seems like fun
I call the orange wires Magnetti. Here's my ideas for the future:
Forbidden Dungeon (Dungeons and Dragons themed)
Forbidden Mansion (Cthulhu themed)
Forbidden Lab (Pandemic themed)
Forbidden House (Betrayal at House on the Hill themed)
Really wanted Forbidden Jungle survive in a jungle game build a raft game
@@thecaryou That's a great idea. Forbidden Space is another one I came up with.
Game needs 1-2 more cards in the weather deck - "Clear Skies" (nothing happens) or two more winds change, one of each direction. This would downplay the random damage aspect some which frustrates so much. 7 straight losses on Novice - not enough actions; tile placement is scripted. I want to love the game, and I like hard games, but you should win at least once on the novice level after 7 tries, right? The arbitrary limit of 3 max tiles in hand (should be 4 or 5) forces decision-making which can set you way off track if you have bad tiles ("gotta find a place to throw down this tile so I can empty my hand to maybe get the tile I need"). No official "pick your character" option - officially, it's randomize. You change any one of these aspects and the game is better. Really makes me wonder about how much playtesting went into it. I came up with 5 suggestions right there that make this game more playable and increases player agency; this should have been worked through playtesting enough to change at least one of these aspects.
You guys looked so disappointed at the end of this video lol. Thanks for the review.
Fully agree with Zee.
I'm not so sure that they did very effective playtesting on this one. I love Desert and Island and was really looking forward to this one but WOW! So many problems. :(
I just spent the better part of my day playtesting it on the Novice level with 3 players. After hours of attempts and strategies, I didn't come close to winning this game even once. There's just not enough actions per turn to counter all of the things that are stacking up against you. And it's too hard to acquire Equipment cards while simultaneously trying to create circuit spots. The wind and lightning are easy enough to escape through the first few rounds but by the time you're having to draw 3 or more Storm cards per turn, you're toast.
I still think this game could be a lot of fun if it's tweaked a bit to make things easier and more fair. But until I can figure it out, I'll hold back on introducing others to this game. Yikes! :/
"Not Fun Along the Way" reminds me how I feel playing Robinson Crusoe.
I agree with Tom and Zee. This game looks ugly. I could only watch a demo for a couple minutes at Gen Con. I was pretty sure I would buy it, but after seeing how ugly it was, I decided I’m going to wait until I can actually play and know for a fact that I love it. I hope I’ll like the game, but it is ugly enough that I think I’m going to have to love the gameplay to want my own copy..
Forbidden Island is easy? I've won it once.
thedangeroussaint
Easy... no, simple yes, my 4 year old plays forbidden island.
I guess then the next game would be Forbidden Stars
awww Zeeeeeeee.... :(
I almost bought this in clearance and I'm still glad I didn't get it.
MV videos are always better with Zee in them! … though there is an overall bad mood vibe threading through this video. I can see why … expectations for a game which has such a stellar pedigree are high and disappointment even higher when it fails to deliver.
That's not a cog, it's a gear.
Weird that Zee tore the aesthetics of this game apart, but gave Cryptid such a glowing review even though that game looked so much worse.
Island has the best art. The flying ship in desert is kinda ugly. Now sky is, ahhhhhhh, well, screw it!
Ouch. The coop/solitary guy dislike it and the wargame/ameritrash like it?. This game aim to the wrong direction.
Absolutely love all your reviews. However, they seem to drag on and on when it is a negative review. Do not feel bad about giving negative reviews when they deserve it (Siskel and Ebert made a career out of it). Do not waste time trying to find ways to sugarcoat it. Just say it as it is. This particular review lasted 10 minutes longer than it had to because of all the wasted time trying to find ways to put a positive spin on something that did not deserve it. The game is an absolute fail and we all know it. Just come out and say it.
This is a tough sell for me, being so visually unappealing. I play these Forbidden games with my kids and the visual factor is very important. This game looks ugly and hell and no gimmicky electronic rocket bling bling can salvage it.
i saw play trough video last week and i got bored almost instant. It looks un atractive and to busy.
Seems like this one is hot steaming garbage.
I'm tired of this "It's the designer's fault for the Alpha Gamer issues!" It's always the argument for co-op puzzle games and it's dumb. The designers cannot design around the fact that not everyone at the table can solve puzzles equally. That's like blaming a designer for creating a game that "Only people who are good at it can win!" It's the same exact logical concept - certain players will be better than others - but you'd never hear that complaint being made over a competitive game. Designers cannot make people smarter. Designers cannot keep smarter people from telling others the correct way to play. Alpha Gaming is a people problem. The end.
I still think it's valuable information to point out how susceptible a game is to the alpha gamer problem. That way groups that have issues with an alpha gamer either know to steer away from it or they at least know they need to be mindful of their alpha gamer when playing it.
That's simply not completely true. Some designs lend itself more towards alphagaming and others actively try to avoid it. Like in Magic Maze, where you cannot talk and the alpha gamer remains silent, which the designer said himself he only implemented to kill the alpha gamer problem. The game is fun with some talking too btw. But that right here is a perfect counterexample for your stubborn and narrow-minded argumentation. When the desginer actively changes something or is even able to change something to reduce alphagaming, it's clearly not only the peoples problem. Sure you first need an alpha gamer to encounter this matter, of course, but that's obvious mate. The key is that it is oftentimes not just the peoples misbehaviour, which is what Tom is saying. Nobody says that it is _only_ the games fault, you've got to put this thought out of your head as quickly as possible. It's not either or, it's both.
I disagree, I think game design can remove alpha gaming. At least to some extent.
To remove alpha gaming, the best method is choice. If there's multiple objectives that need to be done, an alpha gamer might say "Do A" but the person might choose B or C. Robinson Crusoe is excellent at this. Do you explore or gather or hunt etc.
This game sounds like it has limited choices, which is what Tom / Zee said. You either put that tile there or we lose.
@@johng7410 The thing is, there are some games where the Alpha Gamer problem is simply unavoidable. In order to remove the potential of the Alpha Gamer from Pandemic, you'd need to fundamentally change the design of the game. Pandemic is a great game that a lot of people love, so the design of that game doesn't need to change. However, people who have groups where alpha gaming is a problem need to know that and know that Pandemic probably isn't the right game for them. Designing a game that reduces the impact of the Alpha Gamer is a great goal, but I don't think every cooperative game needs to worry about it because not every group has an alpha gamer problem and it's unfair to them to limit the potential design spaces that designers and developers explore.
To sum up, the fact that a game is susceptible to the alpha gamer problem is an important thing for players with an Alpha Gamer susceptible grouped to be aware of, but it shouldn't necessarily be viewed as a purely negative feature of the game. Just like the fact that a game is complex and susceptible to AP is important for players with an AP susceptible group to be aware of, but it should necessarily be viewed as a purely negativ efeature of the game.
@@LookAtTheBacon Other than forcing limited communication in the rules, adding a real time element, or adding some level of competition (ie a traitor mechanic), there's nothing a designer can do to get rid of an alpha gamer problem. You can't make a Matt Leacock style game - fully cooperative, complete information, no time limit - without having the potential for an alpha gamer. Because if you have a puzzle where everyone has all the info, some people are always going to be better at the puzzle than others