Lost Mine of Phandelver DM Guide - Villains - Venomfang
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2019
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We've been to dungeons, but now it's time to face the dragon! Venomfang made his home in Thundertree and can become a glorious tale for the heroes or their irreversible doom.
Let's continue our journey to master the Starter Set's Lost Mine of Phandelver together!
I'm changing this encounter quite a bit from what's written. I'm going have Reidoth in Thundertree on a mission to drive Venomfang away through diplomacy. When the players arrive, he'll have been there for several months, convinced he's nearly won. However, in order to survive the infinite number of blights in the town, Reidoth accepted the Gulthias staff (from Curse of Strahd) which makes all plants creatures non-hostile to the weilder, as a gift of goodwill from Venomfang. Venomfang himself is slowly letting the staff drive Reidoth insane so that eventually he'll be able to completely bend the druid to his will and making him a powerful servant.
I'm not convinced that Venomfang would land on the ground at the beginning of an encounter. I like the idea of climbing down the wall behind the players to the ceiling level. Dragons usually keep the upper hand by flying, breathing or fear.
I sort of agree. I was aiming for a more dramatic appearance rather than tactical thinking. But, nevertheless, nothing prevents him from readying an action to leap up on the second level the very instant somebody attacks. Also I think that by landing near the party, he would demonstrate his confidence, while keeping the distance might let the characters think that he is being careful.
Honestly he kind of needs to land unless you want a tpk his avg dmg with his breath weapon is 42 dmg which could very likely one shot a whole level 4 party and even if a player characters make it a level 3 or 4 party isnt going to deal the 80 dmg needed to make him fly away fast enough to avoid a wipe if he just flys around using his breath weapon.
Of all the encounters in this module, this one concerns me the most. I want this to be a memorable encounter for my players with both roleplaying and possible combat aspects. Thanks for the tips and wish me luck.
this was really good. my players just meet venomfang. when they first went into thunder tree they were trying to be sneaky but once they encountered a twig blight they decided they were just going to start burning all the bushes. i had the dragon notice and come land on a building near them and offer to let them live provided they killed off a nearby hill giant. venomfang then offered to give them a ring (to help them fight the hill giant) which one of the players was dumb enough to put on and attune to. it is of course cursed. my idea was to have the ring transform the player slowly into a kobold.
So I haven’t started running the module just yet (I know the basics behind the story and am currently reading through each chapter) but, I’ve considered the idea of making him and Halia primary antagonists. Essentially halia and venom fang make a deal (if venomfang fights the players and they reduce him to half health) then at some point after that encounter and potentially after the blackspider is dealt with, Venomfang will seemingly at random start to attack trading caravans and random creatures, beginning to displace different monsters causing them to go towards Phandalin. Halia’s plan is for venomfang to weaken the monsters enough, to where members of her guild are able to kill the beasts and “protect” the town in the process. Eventually this will lead to the party fighting venomfang at a location told to them by Halia, who has secretly been sending agents to watch the party. Depending on how the fight goes, the agents will swoop in and ideally (for them) kill both the party and the dragon. Obviously this likely will not work if I balance the encounter properly but it’s a neat idea to me.
Running the bones of Thundertree and using Venomfang with your suggestions plus the How to DnD tactics
I love your videos so much! The nothic one for LMoP is my favorite. At 3:40 you began talking of its deception tactics - where’d you come up with that? I heard another creator mention running venomfang the same way and I’m curious as to where everyone gets these really cool ideas for dnd! Thank you and hopefully you post again soon!
My party finally arrived at Venomfang and we were all so excited for this long anticipated moment. Your video helped me as a dm as well
Cool video. A lot of useful advices, as always.
Thank you!
Venomfang is only a young dragon, Greens usually stay with their parents until they are adults, so Venomfang could have run away from home and his parents might be looking for him.
HOLY SHIT! My players actually fell for the oldest tricks in the book! The party consisting of 5 members being lvl 3 entered Thundertree because of someone in Phandelin had giving them a quest to confront the big figure he saw there. As they went there, they met with the cultists on their doorstep. Here they got to hear what was going on in the ruins about a green dragon having made his lair in the tower recently and getting an offer for an alliance with them. Agreeing, they went with them to tower where Venomfang got to hear from the cultist leader that they came to offer meals to him. While saying that, he snapped his finger to have his men bring out their daggers to each of the member's chin. Venomfang then inspected each of the members and chose the elf wizard to be his first, pulling his head back as he immediately launched forward at him with an incredible speed... and that is where we left it off!!! Any advice, feedback, tips?!! I am looking forward to this encounter as they are officially screwed!
Really depends on what you're aiming for. An intense fight with a dragon and his cultists right here right now? Then roll initiative, though it will be tough, given the situation. If you want to milk the moment and have the dragon's character unfold, make him bite off the head of the cultist behind the PC - he wants the party to trust him so he can manipulate them into doing something really nasty and profitable for him. These are just some thoughts :)
@@LutesDice yeah exactly, that is what I was thinking of too when I saw your video but since I already started 'my attack' with venomfang, that idea to gain their trust is kinda gone. Perhaps in the middle of the fight I can make him fight the cult as he does not want to be made a puppet for the cult? But how do I actually make this fight exciting, during the encounter and interesting events? I do not have a lot of experience with that
@@BossBabyBestAnime Venomfang switching sides during battle is a tricky one. If you're confident in what you're doing, that's okay. Just try not to make the dragon seem desperate or weak. Although I don't know the specifics of your situation, I can see the dragon taking a high position during battle, and watching with satisfaction as the party fights with the cultists, occasionally interfering with them, balancing the conflict to his maximum amusement. Think of it as playing chess.
A dramatic twist to this could be Reidoth the druid coming to aid the heroes. That could lead to Venomfang being forced to disengage and plan his revenge elsewhere.
I'm not quite running the module yet - but I've been making a Wildemount version of LMOP, which is being called "Lost Veins of the Marrow Mines". In it, Venomfang's story isn't changed too much - he was driven out of his lair due to the sheer amount of tumult from the War of Ash and Light between the Dwendalian Empire and Kryn Dynasty, so he fled westwards into imperial territory to avoid being killed. He's settled in the the ruins of Thundertree and made it his abode - but the cultists there are (similar to the ones in the original campaign) Tiamat cultists of the Caustic Heart, and are seeking an alliance to further their power in the Marrow Valley. However, right now Venomfang's sitting pretty in his roost - having them do the dirty work of gathering every inch of treasure before he will help them. Suffice to say, some of the cultists are getting fed up - but they also managed to capture Reidoth, who was sneaking around the village and prepare to offer him up as a snack to the young dragon. But the adventurers will have the chance to save the druid from his fate - and drive off Venomfang possibly. I'd say that so far as a possible side effect of the dragon being there is the twig blights - kind of twisted to life through the dragon's presence but no lair actions as he hasn't been there long enough for that to happen.
Absolutely love your channel and content related to LMOP. We want more :))))
Thank you so much for stopping by and commenting! Next video in the series coming soon:)
Great video man! Really helped me plan my encounter
Super glad to hear that! Thanks:)
My man that was awsome! New DM here, this will help massively when I run this chapter 😄
Great video, as are all of your other LMOP tips! I'd like to get your opinion on the cultists. I didn't intend for them to play much of a role in the story, but of course my players handled them in a way that provides opportunity for them to play a bigger part! My party met the cultists, and while Favric was negotiating with them to bring Venomfang the offering, one of the party members thought Favric was lying and started punching the cultists. Being surprise-assaulted on their home turf, during negotiations no less, they responded with scimitars. Long story short the party ended up fighting them, felling all but one who surrendered when he couldn't escape. The party then set about stabilizing everyone, and leaving them alive but tied up. The party traveled to the northern part of Thundertree, where they are now long resting between sessions. Since they left the cultists alive but defeated and restrained, I'm debating how involved I want them to be. The party did not take their weapons or armor. I'm trying to think like a cultist, but struggling with their response. They were bested by the party (6 third level PC's), but they are fanatics. I'm thinking of having them go in the night to seek out Venomfang's favor by alerting the dragon to the presence of the party, but in my mind, the dragon already knows what's going on in the town so he knows about the party. Venomfang has his own web of lies to spring on the party, but how would, or could, he use the cultists? Another options is to have them slink away, regroup, and introduce them later in or after LMOP. They already let the evil necromancer Hamun Kost live, since his zombies are merely "servants," and you wouldn't deny an old harmless researcher his servants, would you? I'd love to know any thoughts you or your viewers might have. Thanks for all the tips so far, your videos are great, well thought out and easy to follow!!
Hey, sorry for the late response. Perhaps the cultists would come to the dragon's aid, should a fight in the tower occur. When deciding on the actions of either them or the dragon, remember that they are driven by their ultimate goals. The cultists want to gain rank, and the dragon wants to secure his territory and multiply his power. He might help the cultists dealing with the party by giving them something, perhaps magic scrolls. This way they will stand a chance the second time.
Thanks for review! Had a pleasure watching this. When can we expect a video about Black Spider? Look forward, mate.
The Black Spider will be next! Hopefully next Friday.
Great ideas! And great work on all of your vids ive watched!
Keep up the good work! Im a new dm that just started with the starter set. Hope you channel grows my friend :)
@@toufexisk I really appreciate it!
Tie in icespire Peak and you can get Venomfang vs Cryovain where the smarter green dragon has a scapegoat for all his crimes and manipulations, sending the players after a bad, but ultimately unrelated dragon that will either kill off the heroes, or a rivalry power
I want to work Tyranny of Dragons into the end of this campaign. I was interested in using that group to foreshadow events to come.
Hope the video helps. Hamun Kost video also talks about some foreshadowing of Tyranny, you should check it out!
Great video dude! This is the kind of stuff i live for as a DM in the game. Dragons should ALWAYS game the players in some manner or another. They are simply too complex of creatures to just be about brute force (though use it when its absolutely necessary). Like at a cat that plays with a mouse before the kill.
This is the kind of video I was looking for, thanks for this amazing job.
I'm planing to run Lost Mine with Icespire Peak. First I was thinking about putting Venonfang in another place, other them Thundertree, but he is a forest dragon.
You gave me an ideia: Venonfang is intimidated or, at least, unconformable about Cryovain presence and try to talk the PCs against Cryovain. I was thinking about Venonfang already being affiliate with the cultists and He is making them looking for the Lost Mine to create powerful magic items to his treasure. I also thought about Nezznar being part of the cult OR he is looking the Mine as well so we could have three factions running to find the Mines: PCs, Venonfang + Cult and Nezznar.
What do you think?
reviving your old comment...
I've thought about doing something similar. I'd like to attempt to mix LMoP into Icespire peak using Venomfang as the hook. potentially as a cryovain rival in some way.
Did you try your ideas? how did it work out?
Someone had a stroke when they put a green dragon in an intro campaign. Literally no excuse..
awesome video!!! thank you for all your hard work!!! please keep it up
Thank you for your words. I appreciate it.
I’m that guy who actually believed that he can make a favor to a dragon. Me and cuh did everything he asked hoping to get some magic stuff and know what the dragon did? He just beat our asses. So yeah, don’t trust dragons.
My players fell for his shenanigans too :) They will never trust a dragon after that.
well, don't trust chromatic dragons at least, metallic dragons are okay as long as you stay on their good side
For my campaign, I have changed a lot of things about this encounter.
1) Venomfang is a female dragon and the Dragon Cultists have taken her 2 eggs in hope to force Venomfang to join them in the cult of Tiamat. Venomfang doesn't care about the Dragon Queen.
2) Venomfang is a shape changer and have adopted the druid's personna to try to convinced the players to get the "owlbear eggs" for her.... and some of the cultists alive for "interrogation".
3) The druid is prisonner of Venomfang, hoping to corrupt him to do her biding.
4) The players (with a Nautre check DC 13) discovers that the eggs are really dragon eggs and confront "Reidoth". Then, Venomfang reveils herself.
5) Combat or discussion? The players have to decide.
Hi, new DM and have been going a little offscript with the lost mine.
I’m hoping my players will be meeting Venom Fang next week.
I intend to go all out forcing the battle outside so the Dragon can fly. But not until he tries to trick the party and breath them. If Venom fang wins, I will have an NPC save the players. Venom fang will vow vengeance. Another u-tuber has the idea VenomFang could be working with the black Spider, this would alow a second confrontation outside of the mine.
I wasn’t planing on using the cult at all there is enough going on with out adding more needles characters.
Apart from the black spider this is the biggest and hardest fight (and the characters are only level3) they should be level 5 by the time they reach the mine (if they see off VenomFang they will level up)
So that’s my ideas.
Thanks for the Video 😊
That's great! Good luck with your next session!
It went well the wizard was the only person not to be downed and was also the only one to hurt the dragon.
@@ratedrbgo4204 Did they encounter Venomfang another time? I planned to have the party go to Venomfange to get a key for a puzzlebox, and then Venomfang would only yield if they agree and do something for him. A second confrontation would be inevitable as they exit the mine after they fight Nezzar.
Surely this dragon knows about the one at the Icespire peak. Imagine if the cultist's knew...
The two might avoid contact or the White dragon (or green?) is conspiring with the Black Spider aginst the other (via some third party)?
Peter Magro I’m combining LMoP with DoIP. Venomfang is confined to Thundertree and maybe the nearby forest because of Cryovain. He’s a half brother/cousin and would certainly come off 2nd best if they fought, because the white dragon is such a ferocious hunter. So if the PCs can ‘deal with him’ or shoo him from the region then Venomfang would honour the deal. (Or not)
I like these ideas!
Nice video. I have been thinking about this particular encounter, as my party is coming from the Sunless Citadel (home of a former Red Dragon Cult) where the BBEG (who escaped) is a rogue druid that has created an army of twig blights that now stretch all the way beyond Thundertree in his efforts to Summon/Revive/Channel the power(?) of an Ancient Red Dragon. (No one really knows exactly what he was up to beyond evil necromancy) But two of my party members (druids) were sent to deal with him as part of their circle initiation. Reidoth is one of the parties contacts, they will go looking for him when the learn he is in the area to report on BBEG who will reemerge at some point in LMoP. I am still trying to conceptualize the relationship between Belak (BBEG) and Venomfang. Do they even know of each other? Are they attempting to manipulate one another? Or are the working together for their own individual ends? I am looking to connect the two story arcs.
I am also trying to decide what to do with the cultists? I wish I had introduced them to my Sunless game, as I like the idea of them being under the influence of BBEG. I am probably going to make them a messianic/doomsday style cult, waiting for the one who will bring about the end of the world and the new golden age. Of course this is all in addition to the Black Spider and whatever his relationship to all this may be. I am planning to move into a home brew "Land of the Lost" style adventure after LMoP, so I am not worrying about trying to connect any of this to other adventure paths. Thanks for the video and if the above prompts any ideas for anyone, I'd love to hear them.
Boy, that's a lot going on. Well, without sinking into the details, here's what I think.
How about Belak and Venomfang don't get along. Their goals contradict each other. And each of them is just strong enough, that the party can't handle one without the help of another. If your players would be okay with the idea of teaming up with one bad guy to fight another, it can lead to very cool stories. The details are up to you, maybe Venomfang has a magic item in his hoard that can stop that ancient dragon power channeling (he might not even know of its power), or vice versa - it's a vital component for the ritual.
The cult can have their own understanding of the situation. Perhaps they would wish to combine the two goals. Use the druid's ritual to turn Venomfang into obedient demonic-dragon-death-machine abomination and destroy Neverwinter.
There you go, a little brain storm :) Hope it opens some new doors for your imagination!
My party got tricked by Venomfang, but we managed to beat him with one of us being caught in the spiderweb, and another being KOd
I have a party of a mindless players who think only after they killed everyone. How would you persuade them to be respectful with dragon? I want this encounter to be something more than just fighting
If they think only after killing, have them think after getting killed
I think this is a good time to remind them they are not invincible. I'd play Venomfang as well as possible, he is not a mindless monster, he is intelligent. go for the healers/ranged classes, mages first. fly up. use the breath attack when you hit the most ppl. if they die. they die.
when the breath weapon hits for 50 hp they will learn respect pretty quick
I agree with most answers here 😂 but if u don't want a tpk I'd suggest having Venomfang *casually* kick a couple characters' arses real good. After 3 rounds of combats already 2 unconscious characters and the rest are low, whereas the dragon hasn't taken much damage. At this point Venomfang tries to talk again (green dragons love leaving survivors to tell the tale and build a reputation for them), acting smugly and maybe extorting a favour out of them
I just realized your comment is a year old 😅 I'm sorry if I was too late...
My Lvl 3 Barbarian survived Venomfang's breath with almost max damage. Then damaged dragon flew away, but wizard casted "Flight" on barbarian. And flying he was pulling with him gnome rogue. They killed the dragon in 3 turns.
I have them defeat Venomfang and escape, and venomfang is later in the service of the Black Spider and tasked with searching for the party
Such fantastic intro music 0:00 - 00:22. Where can I get it?
Hey, Vit. Thanks. It's called Back to Port Llast and you can find a separate video with just this music on the channel. Also the mp3s of all my music are available to my patrons.
As DM I would leave Venomfang until the PCs are at least 5th level. Any dragon is a tough fight b/c it has aerial combat mobility. A dragon can stay out of reach & either use its breath weapon or sweep down, attack & fly out of melee range.
Or... You could make it a Wyrmling that befriends the party?! Though, I made LMoP a 4 chapters of a 20 level campaign. It's an epic game mechanic for the player who gets a Green Dragon 🐉 Wyrmling! At level 18, the Wyrmling can become a Young Green Dragon, but the pc forfeits their last 2 levels... Or it stays a Wyrmling and the pc can level up. Talk about fun RP for the pc & the DM... Especially for the last epic campaign melees!!!
But whay is the dragon there!? What dos it whant?
Well, I imagine he just decided that's where he will live now.
*[Comes to the video to learn how to run my campaign... stays for the cute guy narrating the video. OwO