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SHAFT FLEX vs SWING SPEED RATINGS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ส.ค. 2015
- This video is about shaft flex vs swing speed ratings. For added information about cutting-edge golf components, go online to www.wishongolf.com.
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Who the hell are the "people" disliking Tom Wishon's videos??? There is literally no reason for that. Lol WOW.
This was the most thorough and logical explanation I have ever heard on any topic of complexity. Mr. Wishon thanks for sharing your experience and expertise on this subject.
Even though this video is 4 years old, it clarifies all the details that is needed when thinking about shaft flex and swing speed. This video I think also correctly corrects all the misconceptions about this topic. I learned a lot from this video and sure many other golfers have too. Thank you so much Mr. Wishon hard work and great experience. Many golfers will benefit from this detailed descriptions. Thanks again.
This man is an excellent communicator who knows what he is talking about, with superb analysis and explanation.
This is the BEST explanation about shafts I have ever seen.
Wow, so glad I found your video Mr. Wishon! Just a really great and thorough explanation that not only looks at swing speed but also how a golfer loads the shaft. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain swing speed and shaft flex along with the other variables to consider when fitting a golfer.
I used to work for a top 100 rated independent club maker. The most extreme example we had of this was a guy who could hit a 6 iron about 225 yards on a FlightScope machine (hitting into a net) and yet his swing motion was so smooth that he could use a stiff shaft rather than extra stiff. Leith Anderson first thought he must have made a mistake. He was stunned and went out of his way to tell me because it was so amazing.
This is the golf equipment guru talking, listen and learn. Thanks.
Thank you Tom; nobody knows more about golf shafts than you. A few years ago, after returning from a back injury, I knew the Project X 5.5 were a tad stiff, so I did some 'homework' and used your ratings to preselect a few shafts which I thought would be a good fit. The Nippon Modus 120 S was 1st choice, which was confirmed by Mizuno DNA. Thoroughly recommend your analysis.
Thanks Tom for clearing up all the opinions on the flex info out there. I wish I had this info when I got fitted last summer. It would have allowed me to walk away from a bad fitting and saved me a lot of money.
Excellent explanation. I am one of those oddballs who uses extremely long clubs. Every club is graphite shafted (XX-flex) or else the clubs would be way to heavy. I have a very high waist, relatively short arms, and a flat swing plane. My driver is 47 inches, 3wood is 45 inches, 5wood is 44 inches, etc. Because they are 2 inches over-length they play a whole flex softer than what they are marked. They are old Penley Graphite Light shafts than started as extremely stiff long drive shafts. I hit them way straighter and more consistently than clubs that are closer to standard length. I used to have to contort my swing to hit standard length clubs so I was never consistent. As I have gotten older, the long clubs are way easier on my back as well.Thanks for the teaching.
Wow! He knows what he's talking about! I watched 3 videos by Tom back to back and his knowledge is second to NONE! I had one thought though when he described that you start with a shaft flex profile for your swing then move onto to other fitting options etc. I like having my driver counter weighted in the butt end. Wouldn't that need to be taken into consideration first before selecting a flex profile as this would change the shaft load during transition..? Once again... thank you so much for your knowledge.
Tom, you are so good at articulating these concepts. Deep appreciation.
I find that if torque and weight are close, flex doesn't really matter for my results. I have hit 3.3-3.7° and 60 series in regular to x just as well. I swing like Steve Stricker at 95 mph.
Thank you for posting these! I'm new to golf, just inherited some clubs, and your explanations of everything is making golf even more exciting!
Tom, you are most knowledgeable & explain club fitting sincerely in great details . Only regret is where to find a club fitter like you? I went to a famous club fitter (claimed all staff are properly trained experts) while visiting Sydney & they were only interested to sell me a full set of shockingly overpriced clubs. I visited their branch in Hong Kong (now closed) later on & had the same experience.
Tom , that was brilliant analogy. Its True about the torquing of the shaft. I had a Taylor Made Driver fitting and the driver that was recommend was spot on. My swing speed was 90 mph and the stiff shaft was perfect. But for the irons M 2 it was a royal disaster. The senior shaft I got game me 10 yards less on all clubs and switching to graphite was a major disaster.The guy at Taylor Made recommended the worst shaft for me based on swing speed for my irons 75 tp 85 MPH . The grams was 55 ,where the shaft could not keep up to my aggressive swing. I am that golfer #1 . He should of given me the 90 to 100 mph for my graphite irons. Even though I am 64 , I fall in the category of aggressive and stable swing speed . You are absolutely correct in that assessment.
Tom thank you for great help with the shaft. I like the way you explain the aggressive swinger to average swing. I use a Hzrdus t 800 stiff 55 gm m-h toque mid kick with med spin. I have the aggressive swing with a swing speed low 90. My point is I'm 71 and all my buddy use reg. Now I understand why I feel vg with the stiff.
Thanks Mr Wishon, for bringing logic and sense into the crowded me too golf club fitting industry
Thanks for the video and explanation of the shaft fitting system you have developed. Very clear and easy to follow.
Feel much more confident in making shaft recommendations.
Really important. Seems like one should get fitted for a shaft first, then think about what make of club one likes the look and sound of. Of course, not quite so simple since the weight of the head, the loft, and the placement of weights near the back or the front will all affect determination of the best club for that person.
I think this is where I have issues. I am the #1 golfer where I three quarter swing but go after it and so I tend to find the shafts are not stiff enough. Thanks for posting
Very helpful, Tom. Great, informative video. Helps explain why my search for the perfect shaft for my driver/fairway woods has been so hit-and-miss. After several trial and errors, finally found one brand's 'regular' model shaft that worked great for my driver, and stuck the same model into my 3 wood with great results, replacing the stock 'regular' from another brand that was far too whippy, even though my driver swing speed is only about 82-84 mph. I need to buy that software!
VERY INFORMATIVE!!!! Thank you! You've helped narrow down a lot of unanswered questions.
Great Explanation: EXPLAINED HERE: 15:58 Swing Speed Rating is not a single stat that determines the shaft stiffness that fits you. You don't get a shaft that matches your swing speed alone, it also depends on the amount of force you pull the club in the downswing, this force can tip you from one stiffness to another even if your Swing Speed is the came as another person.
3 Examples of people with the same 90 mph swing speed getting different stiffnesses 17:23
This was very interesting indeed. Your explanation of the complexity of the shaft flex is excellent. Thank you very much
Wishon is "The Man."
Fujikura is the only one I know of that uses a number system for butt flex and tip flex which is handy for determining bend profiles in golf shafts for the average golfer ... I use there shafts exclusively because of this feature ....
Still doesn't mean that their shaft will be right for someone's swing , and they don't make steel iron shafts.
An excellent explanation what a pity your Golf Club Pro does not use this when advising you re suitable clubs.
How about thickness of shafts? Wilson have the famous thick shaft introduced. And I used a set of Taylor Made's in late 90s with bubble shaft. The shafts had a +- 2inch "bubble" at top near grip area.
Great explanation Mr Wishon, thanks for taking time to share your wisdom. PC
arc swing (hands high/deep) versus rotational swing(combination swing) versus width swing(hitter)
What John Browning was to hand gun performance, Tom Wishon is to the Golf Club. Both genius'.
Um, S&W has the highest performing revolvers and I'd put a Sig or Beretta up against a Browning auto anyday....just saying. Why would you slight Mr. Wishon like that?
Great explanation, but there are so many different shafts, you really just have to try a few and see which one you hit the best.
Tom, thanks for a fascinating and highly educational foray into the utterly confusing world of shaft flex. Your presentation was masterful and did a good job of clearing the air. After 18 years of trying different clubs, I know that I need to be properly fitted, but until now, didn't have the critical information with which to ask the correct questions of the fitter. Now I have them - the Swing Speed Rating. Question: Are there any fitters that currently use this measurement and analysis system that you can suggest, in the Orlando, FL area? Awaiting your response. Thanks again!
Please read all 3 comments. And your knowledge are a blessing.
In your opinion : would you agree that from start of swinging from top with 1D shaft flex proportional as speed increase... all the way through ball! What if golfer managed to "stop/pause" just before impact, wouldn't this create natural "kick effect" that may actually increase impact force and result in more distance?
Fascinating insight into the intricacies of shaft flex!
This is a ton of great info. Thank you!
👏👏 Thank You ! Nice analogy at the end.
You are a special Master Pro, Mr Wishon!
Thanks Tom, what do you make of Mizuno's frequency analyser which fits on to the shaft of the club and measures swing speed, tempo, release, etc?
🤔 I too would like to see the answer!
Good job with good info, most just flap their lips with no content other than moving air.
I've owned M555 irons for about ten years and I can tell you that the problem isn't the irons.
This maybe a stupid question sorry ..
I still play maxfli a10 irons with DG s300 shafts, I only have a swing speed of 80 mph with a 7 iron , everytime I go for a fitting they always say you need a regular flex in a lighter shaft but I can't control them , but everytime I go back to my s300 s I hit them great , could you help me understand why , ty , ....
I have a flightscope and would like to start fitting my self. But as I there is so many shafts and each of them only perform how the swing is, I should theortically buy every shaft on the market and test to see what perform best. But this is of course not possible, but how would you recommend doing it, without having to buy every shaft there exist
Is that software and/or the database of shaft graphs still available and is it still current? When I worked for Leith Anderson (see below), he knew a guy named Russ Ryden who had invented another machine to measure EI. We had one. I was supposed to measure all of the shafts we had in inventory, but I never had the time. Russ has a notebook available with the graohs of all the shafts that have been measured using his machine, but it is extremely expensive - at least it was the last time I checked. He would sell a lot more of them with a lower price. I would have opened a custom fitting shop if I had more money when Leith moved to Indiana from San Carlos, CA.
Great explanation of flex shafts.
Wow. My brain is sore...great explanations
Great video. A definite vid for us fitters and instructors/coaches
Just like an arrow spine chart arrow spine is measured by how far it bends under a prescribed weight golf shaft should be the same way
Hello, and thank you for your knowledge, and time. Thank you for making the game better.
The golf shaft starts to flex as soon as the player starts his/her backswing, then almost immediately it straightens and
bends again (toward the ground) as it stops at the top, then it's flex increases as the golfer starts h/h forward swing and
unflexes on the way to the ball. It therefore flexes again when it hits the golf ball (it's actually flexed forward at the point
at a distance of approximately 6" before it comes into contact with the ball, anyone can see this if they have access to
a slo-mo video of anyone swinging a golf club at a ball, and the longer the shaft the more bend. Voila!
Tom, I am 74. I have a swing speed in the low 90s. I have tried a senior shaft and hit a FEW 250+ but too often they went right or left but when straight it was great. I now have an adjustable Calaway XR set to D and 9.5. I hit it further than my Ping 30. I average about 221 with the driver and about 210 with a Ping 3 as well as more control. What flex might I use better? What does kick point mean and what might benefit me? Thanks, Bob
Excellent explanation!
This is sooo spot on with the flex fittings. But everywhere you look...even now, there's the idiotic cookie cutter wisdom ( if you swing this mph, you need this Letter flex ) bs still out there on the internet... and some fitters !
So would Project X have this information, or how would I get it so I know what flex of irons to get for project x lz.. I was carrying a Callaway steelhead xr 7 iron 143 at 70 mph with the stock X95 reg shaft .. Thanks
Very good explanation
Hi Tom. Thanks for the very useful info. Really cleared me up on shaft learning. What equipment does a fitter need to have in order to properly fit the shaft to the player regarding flex and speed rating? Can it be done without trackman or flight scope? Thx again for all that you do!!
Jim, it would take a book to answer your question in detail. The requirement for decent shaft fitting is not in the form of equipment, but in knowledge and information. For sure, you do need to have an accurate swing speed measurement device, but that’s about the only piece of “equipment” needed for proper shaft fitting. More than that is the requirement for good, accurate, empirical shaft stiffness and shaft weight comparison data. A resource with the full length stiffness measurements and weight measurements of as many shafts as possible, all done on a common set of measurement equipment and done by someone who knows what they are doing.
I tried to compile such a data base. It was going on pretty well from 2006 to 2014. By the end of 2014, we had all this stiffness and weight and balance point information on about 3,000 different wood, iron, hybrid shafts. But then a very big monkey wrench got tossed into it by several of the major shaft makers. It always was that most all the shaft companies supported this project so each year they would send me multiple samples of all their new shafts for us to measure and add to the software data base. Then in 2015 it began to change. Several of them, notably the ones who were selling shafts for $200, $300 or more per shaft, stopped sending us their shafts to measure. Long story short, they stopped their support of this project because they saw it was possible for someone with this data base to find similar less expensive shafts to their expensive shafts and they did not like that.
So since there is no way I can spend the money to buy all the new shafts that are introduced each year for the purpose of doing measurements and putting the data in the software, it looks like this grand plan of mine to provide the industry with the most factual, truthful comparative data on shafts is kerpluk and killed by greed. Sorry to say. So now shaft fitting will revert back to the Dark Ages of trial and error where for a while there it was coming out into the light.
What can we do? Maybe people can donate or send their shafts to you for testing? You could pay them a percentage to test their club, that way you wouldn't have to buy the shafts, while still compiling the data? Or something along those lines. The data you've gathered over all these years is valuable, and with all the new shafts being made it'll certainly be informative!
Tom Wishon I stumbled on to a great shaft for my driver by dumb luck, I've always been told to use a regular to stiff shaft in my clubs with the speed that I have. I purchased a ping g30 driver LS tec to try to bring my spin down, I already have a regular g30 with a stiff stock shaft. The new LS tec had a x flex tour shaft made by ping. I tried the new one and have never hit a driver that straight and long. I always struggled with hitting it left with the regular and stiff shafts but the x flex is perfect. Can you take the profile of the driver shaft and apply it to irons and find a good shaft for my irons too?
@@wishongolfvideo So little/no new data in six years now? Sounds like a crowdsourcing strategy is wanted, maybe through your dealer network.
That was an education. Wow!
is there a similar torsion stiffness rating?
Putting a shaft on a golf club just became as complicated as planning the spacecraft trajectory to Mars! I love it when Engineering complicates matters!!
Manufacturers don't care.. they sell it like Soaps, All New... now. meaning what was being sold till yesterday is old junk!
I wonder if the Great Jack Nicklaus ever spined, pured, frequency tested, bend profile fitted his shafts!
Brilliant explanation, thank you
Wonderful explanation!
great so shaft flex ratings is pretty much like bra cup sizes..every manufacturer has their own standard
Fascinating stuff. Thank you.
could a golfer be between ratings? I think r flex shafts are too weak but s flex is too stiff for me. So should I just get r flex steel shaft irons and choke down?
It’s called trimming or tipping
Ok with all the data of thousands of shafts, still the question is which bend profile is good for a specific golfer????? I want to know mine so I can get the best shaft for me.
It seems like the answer is obvious, but if you're still wondering around in the woods, try finding a well qualified club fitter in your area and make an appointment.
Absolutely correct. Always.
There is a standard now but guess what, most manufacturers dont disclose it on their shafts
I'd like a copy of that database please.
The case for seeing a professional club fitter has never been more clear.
I know tip trimming raises the kick point... is that because the lowest third of the shaft is getting closer in stiffness to the upper? trying to reduce spin. I have high speed, low launch, high spin
I don't know much about component building but try AccuFLEX shafts... they're very cheap at ~40 bucks compared to other aftermarket shafts (that cost up to 400 bucks) but fit high-swing-speed players very well as they're focused a lot on Long-Drive-Challenge Golf... most of their shafts therefor are high launch-low-spin
By tip trimming you are shortening the most flexible part of the shaft(stiffening that part slightly) softest points of flex will not be slightly more towards the butt.
Surely in a good golf swing the forces are along the shaft , centripetal or centrifugal. Adding a side force is to be avoided so a lot of this discussion is irrelevant.
Thanks Tom and subscribed !
You are forgetting the different ways a golfer loads a shaft. Golfers with different forearm/grip strength who generate the identical clubhead speed require very different shafts
I take it back you answered at the end, sorry about that
Excellent!
The very same discussion takes place over on the youtube videos about fly rods. The load/unload is unaware of how much you paid for the graphite tube. I direct you to The Common Cents System by Dr. William Hanneman. “If you cannot measure it, if you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.” Lord Kelvin
True that👍
Tanks
I know you'll all laugh But, I swear that everybody in the world no matter how slow or weak their swing - should play at least a ' stiff ' shaft (driver,irons,wedges everything)
I use ladies flex UST , in all my clubs (it's not the speed) it's the tempo ,but your right most people are hackers and don't release properly.
Or buy 10 different shafts on ebay and test them all and sell the ones that dont work
Got it....a driver shaft is longer than a iron shaft, But the latest 2016 info say NOT.
Huh???
thumbs up!
In all my years of both golf and life, I know but one thing... Ladies like a stiff shaft with a clipped tip :P
I think I'll just let my GC Quad do the talking for me.
This sounds like a whole lot of BS where my GC Quad and my body will tell me which shaft works best without knowing anything about the shafts oscillation properties. I'm unimpressed because I don't see how the data you're collecting on the shaft is important to the user until after he tries it out and collects his own club and ball data.
He literally preaches custom fitting all the time. Not sure what you're arguing. He simply created a database that allows you to more accurately compare shafts across brands. It's just more info to help club fitters do a better job at fitting.
That's why amateurs have virtually zero chance of finding their perfect shaft in a club fitting over 1 to 2 hours.
This bird is full of it. On the typical golf swing the shaft bends 5 times in two difference axis!
Im gonna believe a bird with his own system of custom fitting that has been tested and documented vs an internet troll. Im sure hundreds more would too.
This 'bird' - an industry expert - is indeed full of it - the simple truths on shaft flexes, measuring, etc. Wishon could get extremely detailed on shaft physics during a swing, but this is a simple yet detailed explanation for understanding, measuring, and fitting the best shaft(s) to each golfer ..... o ____
Someone went and dropped £1500 on a set of clubs and got X-stiffed.
Get to the point
He got to it. Enough so that I comprehended everything he said. Man knows his stuff!
Get fitted .... it’s that easy lol
Absolute worst club maker .. stick to music Tom
Fantastic explanation !