Why Baton With A Knife?? w/ Preparedmind101 and Mantis Outdoors
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Preparedmind101 sits down with Will Myers from Mantis Outdoors and hashes out the reasons for batoning with a knife. This is a subject that comes up often in the comments section with people that say "Just use an axe!", so we thought we would do a video explaining the concept and why it is a valid one.
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Baton when you have to and chop when you have the ability to. It's not that complicated. People don't need to get excited about it.
For me there are generally only three instances that I would baton. 1. Like you said, crafting
2. In a wet or snowy environment when I really need to get a fire going and the only dry wood is dead standing split wood.
3. And this is the most common for me. To test the knife and abuse it for a review. Just to see how tough it is.
I agree with 1 and 2 but my #3 would be, to save weight ! When I`m hiking 10-20 mile into the back country, a 12oz. knife is much better to carry then a 6lbs. axe...IMHO
1: you can have more detail crafting with wedges than by battening a knife.
2: There are many other things, even another limb, that can be used to split dead standing wood. Chances are that split wood is wet inside any way. Your best option is to gather standing limbs or dead limbs protruding out from the trees, just snap them off
3: Is your only valid reasoning for batoning, In which case you are not dependent on that knife. Also for this purpose I would take it to the limit and actually break or otherwise compromise the knife. Just to know the extreme limits it can withstand.
Wow, where are you shopping for your gear? My axe weighs just over two pounds and my knife is five ounces.
This is not an "Anti-Axe" video. Just saying.
I agree batoning wood is much safer
illyounotme Sounds legit. Nobody here is attacking axes. I have a crapload of them now. I like splitting firewood on a stump. Batoning in the FIELD is more "as needed". But the the level that people attack it baffles me.
Just chop it already!
I'd rather carry a saw than a axe..takes less effort to do same job
Agreed, not everyone builds a large fire especially when using a bio-stove. Therefore batoning is much easier to process smaller kindling like you said. If you are making a fireboard you get much more control by batoning. Also the weight of an axe is a downside for me.
I don't believe in it personally. If I need to baton I will just use me axe . but in 40 years of bushcraft I have never needed to baton and see it as pointless abuse to your knife, BUT I see and understand why people do and I realize that some things might be easier if I did. I just don't think the extra ease is worth the extra abuse to my knifes.
A well-spoken intelligent opinion on TH-cam?! Hahaha. Kudos, ramsessilent!
It seems that people are using a knife for all these things because they can, and they also want others to see them, or to be like the others that people are seeing. If the tool is at risk every time it's used it would make sense to use it only when doing so is the best option, why baton the knife into wood to make kindling when you can use leaves and branches?
@@Glockler Agreed
Andy Tran Also made a good point about this in one of his videos batoning can be done under a shelter in a rain storm where it would be almost impossible to use an axe and you need to get to the dry wood inside the logs you have
I think your points on the refinements of battoning are right on. Adding to this thinking, (after the kindling thing), it's all about the need to get a "good hot fire" going quick, which is based on your survival need at the moment, and then, its about wood that has "sharp angles" ,(vs. round logs), that's important. Then comes the "personal preference" of doing this with an Ax or a Big Blade"...we all take our pick at that point. If I''m going lightweight in traveling, I'm using my big blade to batton. I always have smaller blades along for the finer stuff. Thanks for the good discussion guys.
The only thing Batoning does is make a knife dull. Adds unnecessary difficulty in a survival situation.
Save the blade, pick up smaller wood. Its there.
+Rusty Gunn 7 No, it doesn't. The edge is only in contact with wood for a brief moment and then the grind is doing the work. Stop spreading disinformation.
If your in a wet area picking up wet twigs that doesn't do much for starting a fire. Takes a whole lot of wet to make the center of a larger piece of wood wet.
The edge definitely contacts the wood. That is not disinformation. A few variables would affect that though. For example, the type of knife grind as well as the type and density of the wood. If a split forms, the knife can just wedge the log apart without actually cutting into it.
Well said bro
If you don't want to baton..then don't baton..but why are you bent out of shape about what someone else does with THEIR knife? stop being a bushcrafter snob
Chop a wedge. Takes 5 minutes. Its free. And you have an endless supply of materials. You have one knife usually on a hunt or in an outdoor situation that is even capabale of the activity. Just my .02.
I recently came across a lot of great fatwood I have been batoning all the good stuff in the middle with a five inch old western no problems except my bad aim and a few knuckle busters a very useful skill thanks for sharing always learning
I see the benefit in batoning for some smaller tasks, but some guys just take it over the top. There was a youtuber who tried to baton a knife through a huge block of bone-dry beech and was disappointed when the knife bent; what'd he expect?!
The problem with that is it leads to manufacturers putting out ever thicker blades that won't bend, break or anything, but won't cut a soft stick of butter. If you need to do a lot of batoning or need to baton large pieces of wood, get a froe.
Another TH-camr batoned a piece of telephone pole with a TOPS Armageddon just to test it. I agree with another commentor that if you are that fearful that batoning will break your knife then maybe you need a different knife.
The Armageddon is not what I'd consider a knife anymore, it is a froe with the handle set at a funny angle... at 24oz I'd rather carry a hatchet or a tomahawk.
kaizoebara I thought that too, but once it is in your hand it doesn't FEEL weighty for some reason. I think TOPS sprinkles it with fairy dust or something...
I know what you mean, I have a Nepalese khukuri which also seems to have gotten the fairy dust treatment. Still, it'll weigh down your pack. ;)
What it boils down to is this: I can see the usefulness of big, heavy knives (like khukuris) and they should be able to do a fair share of batoning, but small knives are being made in that manner, too, although they have a very different field of application.
Re: my initial comment, I was thinking about those knives that have a 4" blade and around 1/4" thickness - indestructable yet pretty much useless.
kaizoebara like a BK2 or ESEE-5? Do not like!
I bought a Mora 330 , the blade alone is 5" ,I've split a silver maple & black walnut ,around 6-10 inches after I got done I could still shave arm hair plus does great feather sticks ,should do a review ,won't be disappointed
Is it really necessary to split wood ? , here in England , where it always always rains I have never once needed to split wood to make a fire, I can see why you would split wood for a stove as it burns more efficiently, but really I think batoning has become more of a test of a knives capabilities as opposed to a bushcraft necessity or viable outdoor chore. Just my humble opinion though folks
I have found spilt wood just burns more efficiently then non split wood when camping. ESPECIALLY if the outside is wet or damp.
Translation of what these guys are saying is.. "They think it looks cool!" You are right in that it is useless! As an old Eagle Scout, I've built plenty of fires in my day without an axe, without a saw, and only a knife attached to my belt! Never did I ever use it to baton! The Scouts don't even teach that technique because it's improper use of the tool! Guys will come up with the funniest and saddest excuses as to why they baton. I say, what did us OLD SCOUTS EVER DO BEFORE THE DAYS OF BATONNING! We made plenty of fires and never had to baton! One guy talks about the smaller diamter of wood and holds up a piece of wood that any sane person would have JUST LAYED ON THE FIRE AS IS! Some of this wood does NOT need to be further split down! It's just insanity!
Now 75, I was a Scout since 11, Life Scout at 18. Been Scoutmaster to 2 Units and hold every square knot for adults short of Woodbadge. Still have my "Tot-N-Chip". Scouts and leaders are not allowed to carry sheath knives any longer; MBA's now run Scouting. When wife and I camp now in a Hi-Lo, I bring a L T Wright SOSPES, Sweedish carpenters axe and a folding saw. You are not allowed to go into woods to gather tinder, kindling or fuel at campgrounds (not be any left shortly otherwise). You will be dragged off screaming by Yoggi to hoosgow. Can't bring wood with and Must buy from local County as everyone afraid of emerald ash bore. This means you buy bundles of cord wood at site and must process down to get a fire started. Watched one fella with a propane torch working on a 6 inch by 24 inch log...grin. Very unsafe to use an axe getting to smaller wood, I like my fingers. I choose to baton when necessary and useful. Unless I carry an axe with me all the time, SOSPES or some such is only option. Yoggi will follow you around if your carrying an axe in a State Park.
Chad Grimes he says many times that he was not splitting that size wood to lay on a fire but to use as kindling
You can baton with an axe. But keep banging away with your 400.00 knife and have fun. People new to this stuff buy into this bs. Carry a good mora for 40.00 and a 20" axe for a 100.00 and you can do anything. Someone says different they have not put in any real time outdoors!
+2011leoc I'm getting ready to put down my Mora for a beefier blade. I don't know too many people that get stuck in a survival situation with an axe. Do you EDC an axe? And if you do, do you keep it on your hip at all times?
+NewHampshire Bound I have an edc axe, it's the CRKT tomahawk and it stays in my jeep full time. If i'm going into the woods I clip it to my belt right next to my knife. I'f i'm going into the bayou, I leave the tomahawk and grab a machete which is going to be right on my hip right by my knife. I don't don't go into the wilderness with one tool. Take the right tools to get the job done. I think it's personal preference really, If you want to take an 8inch blade that's a half inch thick into the woods and it works for you, then more power to you sir.
+Ryan Fitzgerald No I edc a chain saw wise ass!
+2011leoc yes sir, now were talking!!!
+Shane Roach i think the survival situation is if you loose your back pack for what ever reason and all you are left with is what you have on it could be a large knife on your belt or a small folding knife in your pocket, i doubt many people will be in that kind of survival situation but knowing how to use a knife for survival doesnt seem to hurt anything or anyone just another skill to add your life
My first time batoning I used my onatrio knife , I was out with an elderly friend on a winter hike, we listened to the weather it was supposed to be clear,we had belt kits and havers,well it was not clear, a sudden snow storm popped up, we got cold, bunkered in a quick shelter, I found an old wood round from a camp and I batoned off chunks, made fire, soup,and after storm made it back to truck no probs, a 4 hour hike turned into 8hr event.great video thank you.
If one can make a wedge with a knife what would be the advantage of using a knife to split wood?
Older video I know but wanted to say I agree with you two 100%. In fact, I just bought a Bk7 just for batoning if I need to. It wasn't a lot of money, it's a great blade, and I can carry it in my pack with me.
I baton wood with most of my collection of survival knives. However, I live in Northern West Virginia, the mountain state and I don't care what woods you walk into, there is plenty of kindling everywhere you look. From a pencil size, and everything in between to start a fire..... I still like batoning when everything is soaking wet from rain or snow.... Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinion on this topic, I appreciate it gentlemen.
TOTALY AGREE !!!! Great video and points as well as info. Batoning is the safest way to split small wood and very controlled in my opinion.
I think the situation dictates which is the most appropriate tool for the job. In an emergency situation (which could happen, but is on the lower side of probability), the "one tool option" knife (such as the TOPS BOB) is the best choice. However, for general camping (which is on the higher side of probability), I personally prefer a camping hatchet for rendering down wood - compared to batoning. But that's just me. It's a personal choice. Actually, I bring a Mora Bushcraft Black, a Gransfors Bruk small forest axe and a Silky Pocketboy 170 saw.
A better question would be why baton with your knife when you can do with with a wooden wedge that you can make with your knife?
Especially for fine splitting work, like small kindling or crafting, batoning is much safer than splitting with an axe. With an axe, to restrain the work so that it can be split precisely, your off hand almost always needs to be in the path of the tool. Conversely, when batoning, one hand is on the knife handle and one holding the baton, and the knife edge is holding the work in the correct position,which makes it impossible for a hand to be in the path of the tool. With small work, batoning is faster and safer.
Chris I have a question but it's not in relation to this, because of your review I bought the Tops B.O.B with the nice G10 green & black handle I want to buy one of the sheaths that you talked about but want to know which one you liked better.
The Tops leather sheath or the Godspeed kydex.
Good discussion... use the right tools for the right job, whether it be an axe or knife...I have two knives that work well for me, my BG Gerber that only cost me $40, not my batoning tool, but works for most jobs. The other is my TOPS Intercepter. It only has a 4 inch cutting blade, but there is not much it can't do. When I go out in the woods, I always have these two. They make a great pair...but thats what works for me...my TOPS Intercepter is my favorite...any word on bad ass machetes?
Hey guys enjoyed your video I agree whole heartedly!
Just got one question what kind of hat is that William's wearing and where can it be bought?
Thanks keep em coming!
Hi huntinfool.
I'm a firm believer in "the right tool for the job" mentality. I use an ax when its the best suitable tool I have on hand and likewise for my knife. But I always have a knife with me that is capable of batonning with and just this past weekend a need arose. I was on an overnight in a park that only supplies split wood and doesn't allow using" found wood". I knew I was going to have to process down the wood to get kindling and tinder to start my fire. I brought my ax (because it's the right tool for the job) but on the second swing the head came loose and the wedge fell out along with some of the handle. It needed a new handle and I didn't have one with me so I used my knife (a T.M. Hunt Yuma) to process down all the wood. The knife performed the task flawlessly even though there was quite a bit of hard wood and knotty pine. That's why I bring a knife that's capable....just in case.
For my part, the last time I carried even a small hatchet when camping was over twenty years ago - I don't see the point in the extra weight. So "just use an axe" is not an option for me.
True, for most fire making, I generally find sufficient small twigs to act as kindling and can break most larger lengths of wood, too thick to break by hand, by swinging them down onto a rock or jamming them into a fork in a tree and pushing.
If those things fail, I fall back on my knife to hack chunks out of the wood until it's weakened enough to break by one of the above methods.
I've never had to baton with a knife *so far*, but I'm glad it's in my "repertoire" of options because one day I may need to do so, for any of the reasons described in this video.
Great video, guys. Thanks.
Do you like the Schrade SCHF9 for batoning? What would be your top 3 knives for batoning/general bushcrafting?
I have no trouble finding dry small twigs still on the trunk dead, under the canopy on pines, even in a rainstorm these are dry. Never had a need to baton with an axe or a knife so i dont get the entire concept. Must be a regional thing. Genuinely wondering if its a resource biome thing.
I use my Coldsteel Leatherneck SF to baton it is a good knife. I have hade it for about 5 years
I gently baton'ed with an old 3 inch lock knife last night to get a fire going. Shaved down a chunk of wood effectively but with a greater risk of snapping obviously.. I have a beautiful historical hatchet similar to the cold steal range but I was caught without!!
I use a saw more than I use an axe these days. Good vid, guys I agree compleatly. I have in the past used a big knife to split a large log for the fire, about 6 inches in diameter maybe a little bigger, but I don't do that unless I can't find smaller wood in the area.
I always thought the reason besides kindling was so you could in the rain after the wood gets wet you can get to the dry wood inside.
Who is the largest segment of society that faces danger and life threats? The U.S. military. Marines, Special Forces, Navy Seals. Are they issued an axe? NO!! Why? Because their knife can be used for batoning. Multi-purpose, flexibility is the essence of survival. If detractors can't go in the woods without an axe they should stay in their back yards.
why?
Having served in the U.S. Marine Corps we were taught to use our Ka-Bar for one thing and it has nothing to do with wood
I Own A Swedish Axe and Always Take It With Me.
I Also Carry Baton Worthy Knife.
Knowing How To Baton Properly Is The Key.
Its Not About The Knife Not Being Meant To Baton, But It Is About Comfort and Preference.
DO you this the ESEE 6 is good for baton work? also do you think you could do a VS vid with the BK7 and the ESEE 6
I paid really good money ($300 Chris Reeve project one) for a knife that cuts very well, but it is also tough enough to use for batoning. I have used a rubber mallet to drive this knife through the neck bone of a large deer. There was absolutely no damage to the edge.
Great vid!!
And could you make a video of you customizing the esee 6 please??
It's getting a rock tumbled finish done to it.
I started out batoning, but i hate it it's nice to knoww my knife is capable. I ended up buying and axe cause i always cut dead fall and usually it 4in or bigger. Like will said i usee batoning for crafting. Yall should do a review on the frost mora crook knife, makes notches and such effortlessly.
agree with you....something id like to see you fully test and what im thinking about doing is heat treating/hardening a cold steel spike hawk (sharpening the spike into a blade and heat treating)...from what i know about working with steel and cold steel 1055 HC is that the steel is still soft enough even after a heat treat that i shouldnt have to worry about a fracture/cracking with daily wood working but can still have a decent blade option with a reprofiled spike/blade...what i would truly advise is heat treat/ harden the spike and about 1" up on the full length blade of the hawk leave the rest of the head soft so it can absorb the shock and you wont have to worry about cracking....next vid idea for ya take care brother!
I totaly agree with you guys. Batoning wasn't an option in the old days ( some 20 to 30 year ago) Now the hi carbon steel give you option. I started to do it for video also and realised that for a fire board it would be perfect. other technique can do it for notch but sometime you need to baton. Great discussion . nice to know you can do it even with my Schrade SCHF 9 (1095) . that 1/4 inch steel is not an expensive knife. SCHF 17 another cheaper knife that does batoning. Finaly use your jugement and if you need to, you know that the knife reviewed could baton. Would you? it's still up to you. But I would.
Great video! There was a time where my grandfather was chopping some logs, about 4" wide, I seen him swing down (note it was a 2 pound axe) and when he struck the log the axe full on bounced back and hit him square in the forehead, I thought he died and this man has been chopping wood for 40 plus years so he knew what he was doing, it was just a misfortune. I've also seen him break many axe handles. Out of all the years I've batoned even with a folding knife, I only broke one and didn't even break it, it was a crkt m21 and the liner bent just slightly making it impossible to close, it worked fine as a fixed blade though
I also beat the living hell out of that crkt for over a year batoning etc etc just this one time it was on a camping trip and I bit off a little more then I could chew, but like I said still worked great as a fixed blade
Batoning wood has it's place and it's good to know if your favorite knife can hold up, if the need arises. I've never had to baton wood in my 45 years of hunting, hiking, camping, etc.. I've always found tons of dead wood in the places I go. I have no trouble starting a camp fire with what's available. Plenty of tinder, kindling, and fuel without processing any of it. I gather all I can when I first set up camp. Enough to last me for the length of time I have planned. Then I cover it with a tarp in case it rains. Done. If everything is already wet from rain, I add 1/4 cup of flammable liquid to the mix and do so until the fire can hold it's own. The big stuff, I burn it from one end and feed it as it diminishes. No chopping or batoning. In a survival situation, batoning would be necessary if you are separated from your gear. You might need to baton the wood to get to the dry stuff for fire making. I would not hesitate to use my knife for batoning if the need arises.
My opinion is you use your knife for controled batton cuts for the finer parts of bushcraft. I doin't use my knife for splitting wood for a fire unless that's all I have. As far as reviews are concerned I think batoning with a knife shows the capabilities of the knife because batoning is the hardest thing you can do to a knife. If you are that less inteligent you shouldn'tbe alloud to own a knife in the first place. Just sayin.
The gen2 beckers have cutout tangs . The originals have solid tangs. All the vids I see on the beckers use the gen1 solid tangs. How do you feel about the new design?? It can't be as strong
All my Beckers have cutouts. Doesn't make a bit of difference.
I dig it. There's just so many people who do not seem to get the thought process: right tool for the right job first then fill in with what you can make work from there as needed...emphasis on NEED. I baton. I own axes but I don't use them much because I live in the desert where the thickest chunk of wood I could need to process came from the grocery store in a kindling bundle. Back home in NW Montana, I carried an axe all the time. Its also about the right tools for one's environment.
You do good stuff man! I enjoy the hell out of your vids! thank you!
As for cheap knives, is the mora an exception to this rule, as most bushcrafters I have heard from? i know cheap knives suck, but with all the info surrounding Mora's, they seem damn near bullet proof
Hi Chris & Will, I know I'm really late to the party on commenting on this video but here it goes anyways lol. I think it can also be noted that there are ways to carry and baton with only a Mora provided that you are smart about it and know a few tricks... First, I've found when battening with a rat-tail tang knife, you really want to avoid creating what I've dubbed "the fulcrum effect". What I mean is, you want to avoid putting strong downward pressure on both ends of the knife while at the same time allowing the medium being battened to apply strong upward force on the knife from the middle (blade/handle junction). This is why knives generally snap at the tang when battened incorrectly. The trick is to loosen your grip and apply almost no pressure to the handle when battening the blade. You are simply holding the handle just enough so the knife doesn't fall out of your hand. This alleviates the "fulcrum effect" and is much easier on the knife. I also find when felling small trees, it's best to take small knocks on the knife with the baton rather than huge death-blows! Remember, your trying to SLOWLY remove small chunks of wood just like the beaver does, and NOT fell the whole tree with one giant strike of the baton. So just lightly tap the knife and remove small chunks until you can safely push the tree over. Furthermore, when it comes to battening to "split" a piece of wood, if you are using a rat-tail tang knife like a Mora, simply tap the blade into the top of the log until the spine of the knife is flush with the log, and then stop. Now that you have created a split, remove your knife and use a wooden wedge to finish splitting the log. Hope this helps some people avoid breaking their knives! Cheers. =)
Great topic that is avoided by lots of folks.
I have a good Vaughn hatchet I picked up for $20 at a flea market. Not too heavy. Can be carried on my belt or in my pack. My good knives cost more than 10 times what my hatchet did. So, I'd rather use the hatchet for heavy wood chores and save my knives for other work. Having said that, what a person does with their own tools is their choice. Whether to baton or not shouldn't be a matter of contention, but a topic for good, fun debate, and we should all leave as friends afterward. Thank you for your insights on this interesting topic.
Good video. Very logical, fair and unbiased discussion. Like in everyday life, we all have preferences or experience with certain tools. I have machetes, axes and several knives, but I am best, to this day, with knives. It's like a leather leash, versus rope or a canvas lead... they handle very differently, but I have learned to use all of them.
1:58 would you use a small pocket knife as a screwdriver as its easier than to find a screwdriver ?
5:10 you can use an axe carefully aswell, hit softly until its embedded into objet then smash it onto a hard surface
at the end of the day its your knife and you can do as you please, personally I wouldn't with a knife I payed for
is Wa rainforests when everything is wet, batoning allows you to access the dry core. it isn't good for the knife, but I don't use expensive knives to baton.
+Patchwork Gardens That's why when these guys say "In blah-blah years, I've NEVER has to baton wood! Just grab some sticks!" I instantly know they are fair weather campers. And if they have some magical trick for getting wet wood to burn, they should do a video and share that and get famous. Same goes for the "just carry a bic-tards"...I know they've never camped in bitter cold. Sometimes being a smartass gives you away.
Not good for the knife but good for the blood and the soul when you get that fire going.
Patchwork Gardens I’m from the PNW and I was thinking the same thing. The other problem with this discussion is that we all come from different regions and have different experiences. Obviously someone from a hot climate can easily start a fire with what’s on the ground but that isn’t the case where I live.
@@preparedmind101 . Please show us batoning all of this firewood that isn't cut with a saw and flat on the ends like everyone shows. If you lost everything but your knife you will be batoning wood that is cut with a knife or broken into smaller pieces. Teach me. Please and thank you
"Karate aint gonna work" lol had me dying
Replication of the lighter uses of an axe is a perfect example. Thanks guys.
If your in a shtf situation your going to pack light. Axes are a lot of weight not to mention length to carry. If I have a sturdy knife that I know will survive any abuse I'm going to carry that not an axe. In a survival situation I'm going to pack light.
Axes are "a lot of weight"? Put down the donut and hit the gym every once in a while
zizzinpuss lol, seriously
i agree with you guys...but...i ha ve yet to see a video upon which a knife wasn`t able to baton through a piece of wood, ...ive seen them break ...but not a knife that wasnt able to. if you are aware of such a video, i`d love to see it
How about keeping it simple.
They're YOUR blades to use as you want to.
I baton with my Mora Black.. it holds up just fine. I also baton with my BK7. Works great.
Great video. I have an axe I use at home but would think very hard before I swung an axe out in the middle of nowhere. Axe injuries tend to be serious and you don't want to be that far away from a hospital if there's an accident. This is not an issue that should garner such strong opinions.
I have also batoned an Ontario Cutlery Kukri through a piece of hickory. I was beating the hell out of that blade, but it worked and the knife was just fine.
I agree that batoning a knife is safer that using a hatchet if the knife is up to the task.
I have seen an axe glance off of a log and put a nasty gash in a mans leg.
The difference is that when you swing an axe, you are swinging a blade.
When you baton, the blade is moving only after the baton strikes it, and then it only moves a little bit.
To me it would be easier to baton with a knife for kindling if you have the right knife. I did watch one video where they were splitting wood with a wood wedge they carved out which worked pretty good but that was with 4 to 6 inch logs.
I've really been getting into axes lately but batoning will always have it's place, especially for kindling.
I suppose if you're running fast and light, you might not want to carry an axe. I can dig that.
But if I can carry an axe, I will. That's just where I'm at right now.
Good discussion.
i think the survival situation is if you loose your back pack for what ever reason and all you are left with is what you have on yourself could be a large knife on your belt or a small folding knife in your pocket, i doubt many people will be in that kind of survival situation but knowing how to use a knife for survival doesnt seem to hurt anything or anyone just another skill to add your life
In my 45 yrs of camping, in Japan, the P.I., Ohio,. Ky , Florida, Arizona, Kansas City, Al, La, etc I've never had to baton a piece of wood. I've ALWAYS found what I needed. YMMV
I'm all for batoning if the situation calls for it, especially for small kindling or if the knife is all you have. BUT, I must repeat what another commenter said: you can also baton with an axe. Thus, the alternative to using a knife isn't necessarily an axe head flying through the air. You might want to consider trying an axe out as a one tool option, just to realise how much you can do with it. Not just any axe, but a good one (just as how you would choose a knife). Anyway, i usually carry both. "Tool heavy" as mr. Canterbury says.
You have a lot of good points though, and the knife really is a better one-tool option. I just wanted to remind people that this specific technique applies to axes as well.
I agree with y'all 100%. Batoning is a needed skill for survival, period. Besides not always having an ax, what happens when the handle breaks and all the wood around you is wet and you need fire? No batoning, no fire, hypothermia, body bag. Ideally you will have a hatchett (or ax), and at least two knives when venturing into the wild. Again, what happens when the handle breaks off at the head? You could still baton with the ax head, but could also break your hand. In the words of that great woodsman in the sky, "you can have my baton when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers". Just don't do it with a knife that can't take it, like a Mora, unless it is very small pieces of wood.
I always thought it was fairly obvious - for the most part it's a skill you practice in case you need to process wood in a situation where you have a knife (which you should never be without) but don't have an axe.
Cris dig and respect your reviews and Will you are right in smaller scenarios however let it be known batoning repeatedly will distemper or malform metal...don't care what the composite.
I have been in almost every wilderness area in the US an I can't think of a time or place that I had to baton wood with my knife. Can any one name a place anywhere in the US that you can NOTget debrie to start and maintain a fire ? EVEN in wet weather you can break dead limbs off of trees. I am in no way an expert but the baton thing is just weird.
Semper Paratus, and I will take that as a compliment. We did impossible things with DOD surplus and worn out Navy junk. Our stainless non serrated GSA knifes cost the Govt something like $3.85. or you could buy a Buck 110 folder for $8
uscgalpha91 Thanks for helping to keep us merchant mariners safe.
+uscgalpha91 never had to baton wood down here in the south and gulf coast. I don't understand it either man but who knows
I have been all over the globe from the Desert of Australia to the forests in Norway and never saw anybody baton wood with a knife.
If you look above your head in any forest their is enough hanging dead branches for all the fire starter you need.
Seems a waste to beat a good edge off of a knife.
+uscgalpha91 The real danger is not losing the edge but instead breaking the knife or getting it stuck. Your tool is your life lose it, break it, damage it to the point where it cant be used and you would have been better off never bringing it.
Typically when I go out to the woods I don't cut down trees so no need for an axe. I gather fallen branches or use a saw to cut up a fallen tree. I can baton some pieces to start the fire then I dont need to do much more. Im not a fan of Axe's for general work like that. I use Axe's to split Logs if they are large but Jessica-X does just fine for smaller logs, branches, ETC. Jessica fits well in the category of Outdoors campers who pack light and dont want to carry to many tools. Plus... the GSO 10 is bit more expensive.
I do carry a Ka-bar big brother and I will on occasion baton small stuff for fire making or cleaning a stick. I have to agree, the tang seems like it is just to week for some work.
I'm at 3:04... Chiming in.
Will you are so right. Thank you.
Wood Working in General specially in the field, requires a Large Knife to be batoned for precise flat & even cuts. I've seen people break Axe handles trying to get those precise flat & even cuts many times....
Ok, going to continue watching...
Done... I agree guys. Batoning is Safer usually. Controlled strikes work better and is safer.
My edc is the esee junglas 2....chops like an Axe and batons like a dream
I baton a lot, mainly because I don't really care to carry an axe, but I never baton anything over 3 or 4 inches thick.
Thanks guys . Hope the people out there really understand you as well as I do . Great job keep up the great work Thank you again .
This must be a huge issue for car campers and internet gear trolls.
The right tool use is everything. Yes , you can use an axe to make a feather stick. But if you have a knife, would you?
If an eye surgeon was skilled enough to use an axe, would he?
Well said gentleman. Batoning isn’t the way to go across the board. Neither is using an axe. I’m all for batoning. But some knives aren’t as strong as others. I damaged my Helle Eggen by batoning. Helle knives are amazing. But I wont do that again. Lesson learned. Love your channel
I totally agree with both of you on the points you've made in this video!
My whole life i've been going into the woods and gulf coast deltas. I have never once had to baton wood. I wanna see how good your knives cut after you chop down trees with them. My tomahawk is with me every time I step into the forest. It stays in my truck, it travels everywhere with me. My tomahawk is attached to my side. the weight is not an issue, if it is, you need to squat. at the end of the day, if you want to go into the woods with only a giant ass knife then fine. If that works for you then fine. I want my knife to cut and cut easily. If i have to chop wood, I will have the tool. If I have to do fine detail cutting work, I will have the tool. They will both be on my hip. If you want to baton, you will dull your knife plain and simple.
No, you won't. You'd know that if you actually tried it. The only time the edge is hitting the wood is when you first bite into it. At that point, the grind is pushing the wood apart away from the edge. It doesn't dull your knife. Experience trumps speculation every time.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. More than one method. Just because you prefer one method doesn't make everyone else wrong.
Furthermore, since this video I created a knife design that is DESIGNED to baton, withstands ungodly abuse, and will out chop any hatchet or tomahawk.
I've never needed a bow drill set, but I don't begrudge those that want to practice doing it.
+PREPAREDMIND101 my experience has shown that beating wood against a blade is going to dull it. Although I've never really batoned wood, I very well could be wrong. I might try it if its a last ditch effort. I agree, there are more ways to skin a cat. If batoning wood actually doesn't dull knife then I will gladly retract my statement. From experience I do know that everything is a trade off. I would rather have three tools that perform the desired task superbly rather that one tool that performs many tasks averagely but hey, thats just me. Baton away man.
+PREPAREDMIND101 actually I don't want to be an internet know it all so I will try batoning some wood this afternoon. The only blade I have that is large enough is a winkler II belt knife. If it works then awesome! I will retract my statement. I will still probably bring multiple tools into the field with me regardless but what the hell
well, it didn't dull my knife! who would have thought!!!!
Its more important to go into the woods with enough gear tools and food so you dont get into a survival situation that everyone dreams about. I boton for fun but if im really lost somewhere in the woods i should have aeverything i need with me and avoid beating on my knife. TH-camrs like to make it sound that you just need a knife to survive
It seems to me that, in addition to the choice of tool you have, the size of the log you want to split is a factor to consider.
If you have cut 12-18" logs for splitting, that are 2" or less in diameter, then I would say a fixed blade with a 4" blade or larger (eg CS Master Hunter) can easily and safely be used to render those logs down into kindling.
One would not need a huge, heavy maul (mallet) - a light one would do fine. That is being sensible.
On the other hand, if the logs were much thicker, say 4" and more, batoning with a 4" knife would not really be appropriate. Two 3" wedges would do the job using a moderately heavy maul (mallet). One could cut a shallow slit in the log using the knife or even a saw, just to get the wedge started.
Between the two (ie 2-4" logs) it would depend on the knife you have, and the nature of the wood concerned. Nice, soft straight grained knotless wood, say spruce would split much easier than gnarly hard oak or other tough wood. (A CS SRK would handle most of this).
With the above in mind, this is why the old frontiersmen liked their Bowie knives for the better options the sheer size of the knives bring to the table. I carry a CS Trail Master.
Cross-batoning. I would discourage this most strongly, because the possibility of damage to your primary tool (your knife) is unacceptably high. Modern light, folding specialist cross-cut saws like Bahco and Silky mean one never need to cut/chop through a tree/log, ever. Cutting it with a saw will consume a fraction of the effort than cutting/chopping will, with NO danger to the tools.
Even a small folder like a Silky Pocketboy or Laplander will cut pretty thick logs/trees with ease.
I hope this will put some things into perspective, and comments are invited.
Chris, I would only baton a piece of wood 3 inches or less with my knife. My hatchet will split 6 and 8 inch chunks. Now if I had to I could do that with my knife. I carry a Junglas into the woods and it can handle the task but under normal conditions I'd use my hatchet. I'd rather baton a hatchet than my Junglas. You all make sense.
For years and years, when I go into the woods and needed a fire, I would always gather dry twigs and braches by hand and some larger pieces too, without ever having the need of a large knife or a saw. I usually only carried a folder.After watching survival videos on youtube several years ago I changed my system. I bought a very large fixed blade and a chainsaw. Now what I do is cut down large trees with a saw, cut them in lengths with the saw, and place them on a stump that I levelled up with a chainsaw and process all the wood that I need by batoning with my knife. If there is an abundant supply of wood just lying on the forest floor, I completely ignore it.Sure it takes longer but you do what you have to do.I also purchased 4 paracord bracelets which I wear one on each wrist and around each ankle. This was 3 years ago. I NEVER take them off for any reason, no matter how silly I look. They itch my skin like crazy and sure do smell but they must be important because everyone wears them and I will not take them off til I find a use for them
+Bernie Cooper
You need to get a paracord necklace too. What if both you hands & feet get cut off & you loose all your bracelets?
+Bernie Cooper
You need to get a paracord necklace too. What if both you hands & feet get cut off & you loose all your bracelets?
+Bernie Cooper If there are twigs all around you and you're of able body to run around collecting them then you're not in a survival situation. Going into the woods with a 40lb pack of gear is not survival. That's camping. Should you ever need to, you will baton chop small trees near you. You might be hurt. You might have lost your pack. Etc.
+OOTurok That is a good point. After much thought, I decided to make a 8 foot by 10 foot shelter made entirely out of paracord and wear it around my neck, complete with a wood stove inside. thanks for the comment
+NewHampshire Bound Hi. I wasn't being serious, I was just being critical of people who wear those silly paracord bracelets everywhere they go and who cut down trees for firewood instead of gathering dead wood. Given the choice, whether in a survival situation or not I think it is always easier to gather dead wood, which will be more dry and burn better than cut down living green trees. I do see your point though and I thank you for your comment
I bought and paid for the knife with my money and didn't ask anyone about how to use it. A knife is a tool made for any task I wish to perform with it. So I really don't need any advice from any wise guy because I was probably using a knife before his uniform was held up with safety pins.
Boom! Nuff said
I love all these guys who give survival advice even though they don't look like they could survive a 1/4-mile run.
I like batoning too, because splitting wood with a knife is definitly more secure as with an axe! The chance to injure youself by batoning is against zero. Otherwise a
accident with an axe (e.g. a hit into one of your legs) could harm yourself life-endangerous.
I strongly advise everyone to learn some security wood-splitting technics BEFORE using a axe.
I prefer using 1095 steel bushcraft knifes (SCHF9) for batoning, because a axe is made from the same sturdy high carbon steel! Therefore it must be the best material for a knife that makes sometimes the job of an axe!
I am in agreement with you. You aren't swinging your sharp tool batoning like you are with an axe. To each his own though.
Thank you Chris. Do you also agree with me when I argue that the best steel for batoning must be made from the same sturdy material from what all axes are build - the high carbon steel?
That and the fact that an axe uses way less energy to process firewood than batoning does
I purchased a Jessica-X and Kabar Mark 1..... My Axe stays at home.
I thought it was a great video. A lot of great point on both sides of why to use both a axe or a knife. I feel there's a place and time for both.
I've batonned with my 15$ Mora many times. That high carbon blade has never flinched or failed. Obviously, batonning a diameter greater than 3/4 your blade length is probably unwise or ill advised. Baton on dude!
great video! really dig the laser etch logo at the end
Batoning for me is also a more accurate/precise way to expose a dry cross section of timber.
While there are few things that can be done with a knife that can not also be done with a proper axe using the proper technique, batoning is a vital skill to have for anyone training to survive in the outdoors. Whenever see I someone saying that you shouldn't baton with a knife they're usually from one of two camps. Either they claim to have an axe on their belt 100% of the time (which I doubt is true), or they say that batoning is never necessary. I usually won't engage in a debate with those in the first camp because of the chance, as slight as it may be, that they might actually be telling the truth even though I've never met a single person who actually wears an axe on their belt 100% of the time when they're in the outdoors. For those in the 'batoning is never necessary' camp I would really like to be able to drop them off with nothing more than a folding knife and a ferrocerium rod in the temperate rain forest of the Pacific Northwest during the winter, a.k.a. the rainy season when everything is soaking wet, and then tell them to start a fire with no axe and no batoning. I expect that the vast majority of them would change their minds right quickly!
I'd take you up on that challenge anytime. I don't even need the knife. As I said on other comments "batoning is just a trend" with no practical usefulness. There are to many other options found in nature, that if you were dependent on your knife, you could do otherwise and would be more prudent in doing so. Just think about it, survival amounts to knowledge both of survival and the assets around you, and the will to survive, that's it. For any mechanical challenge in the wilderness, think of simple machines (the wheel , inclined plane, lever & fulcrum and axel) and such. If you understand these principles there isn't much you can't accomplish without store bought gear, no matter the environment.
fortbuilder100 I'll give you a prime example of one reason to NOT baton; I often go into the hills with just a "stone knife" that I've knapped. Yeah I could just knapp another if it were to break. But why take the chance? I can do all of my fine carving or feather sticks with that knife, that I might need to. But batoning it would break it first or second blow. Practicing batonning just leads to bad habits. You'll find when it most necessary to preserve your blade, out of habit you'll baton something and sure as heck loose the advantage you had by having a sound knife.
fortbuilder100 That's why man invented steel! Look into it.
BTW, it didn't escape my attention that you said nothing about how or where you were going to find dry tinder in a place like the Olympic Peninsula during the rainy season. In case you've never been there, let me describe it to you: WET! Everything is soaked, and smaller diameter wood is most often soaked completely through. While I suppose it's possible that if you looked long enough and hard enough, and wasted all the calories to do so, you might be able to find enough dry tinder to start a fire, maybe. Of course if you're soaked to the bone and need a fire ASAP to prevent hypothermia, searching long hard for dry tinder when you can make it yourself in just a few minutes is not only foolish, but potentially deadly! By the time you find dry tinder in such a situation you're likely to be in serious danger of succumbing to hypothermia. It's much easier, much faster & much safer to simply baton a larger piece of wood to get to the dry wood on the inside. From that point you can very easily, very quickly & very safely split the wood into tinder & kindling with which to build your fire.
In addition to that, batoning is by far the best way to use a knife to cut precise notches into wood for crafting parts for various traps as well as to make a bow drill or hand drill set. You can say batoning is never necessary if you like, but there's a darn good reason why pretty much every respected survival instructor in the country teaches it: IT WORKS!
As I said it's a trend...... and not every "respected survival instructor in this country teaches it". Mainly only the ones trying to sell you gear in one way or the other. There are many ways to split or break apart wood for tinder and kindling. I have been in the Olympic peninsula, I currently live in the North West.. I've been doing this stuff since childhood and I'm nearly 60 now. You'll never convince me that batoning is a necessary skill. It isn't even a skill, rather it's a hack at doing something that can be done just as easily other ways.
fortbuilder100 To find out "how to find dry tinder in a place like the Olympic Peninsula during the rainy season" attend one of my meets. at the bottom of this page, modernmilitiamovement.net/MONTANA.php is a form fill it out and submit it. Then when we have the next meet I'll send you directions. You might learn a thing or two???
Batoning has become an epidemic worldwide, and it looks cool. I've been in the outdoors for over 50 years and never needed to baton anything for my thousands of fires in 5 decades. However, it is useful in wet weather conditions and wet wood........Besides I like knowing my blades can split wood if I needed to do it without breaking..Mora are the only rat tail tang I would baton. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions on this highly controversial topic, I appreciate it gentlemen.
Batoning wood with a knife is only as dangerous as the person doing the batoning. Likewise with using an ax.
+Mickey Authement Exactly.
+Mickey Authement Or drinking a beer, or entering into matrimony
You're right about the original BG ultimate survival knife. But the pro is plenty capable. I think it was the guy from ultimate survival tips did a review and beat the shit out of it.
How about carving a wedge from a piece of hardwood and use it to baton split wood. Instead of unnecessarily risking your primary cutting tool.
How about you just buy something good instead of a $60 1095 knife and worrying about it breaking? Unless you can to share links to all the broken 3V Bark Rivers and LTWKs out there?
My idea is not to carry a hand axe or Hatchet but a proper batoning knife...I carry a small wood burning backpacking stove into the woods...and really don't need to split wood but sometime breaking apart larger sticks with a batoning knife...is a good thing...
Good info. Thanks guys!
Once I tried to baton small sticks with an axe just because I wanted to see if they were right, it is impossible
What steel is a ka bar Becker bk9 ? Please
The 'knife' I use is a khukuri. Traditional one. I can baton, but in so many years I've never had to baton. I just jam the khukuri in and whack it through.
Also does the bk16 fit the tops leather dangler sheath?
I believe I did try that and it does.