You’re probably aware already, but said I’d mention it as at 15:20 ish mark, when you are talking your map of valentia and about a sense of place and names being lost. East West maps brought out maps for the Dingle peninsula last year, and they are fantastic for names, every cuas, bay, inlet, rock or cnoc has a name. Had a good chat with a farmer around Macha na Bó when they came out and he confirmed the names were right for the valley we were in. I’ll be picking up the book you mention the next time I’m down there, 👍
Thanks for that Eddie. I didn't know that. I will look for them. (I live in Valentia, both near and far from Dingle). I was at a talk about place names in Iveragh recently and I discovered that several places have different names. It is a wonderful book and is great for practising your Irish!
@@forasfeasa ah yes, you can see it, but it’s a long drive. The guy also has blog posts you might find interesting regarding some of the names in dingle. And… I’ve already ordered that book 😁👍 thanks again for a great video,
Thanks a lot. I had hoped to get better footage in Ventry, but the weather and time were against me. But it turned out ok. Hopefully in 10 days or so, my next one on the Battle of Callan will be out! How is your Cromwell project?
I agree that removing these stories from their place of origin and Gaelic roots changes their meaning. Celtic is the new 'British' in an effort to lay claim to a Gaelic cultural heritage transmitted now in the English language. It is important to preserve the history of these stories as much as the stories themselves.
Exactly. One of these days I want to do a series of videos called Bad History. One will be about 'mythology' - in which we have classics like the Irish potato goddess (search for that on Google), the real name of St Patrick that seems to have been invented by am American woman in the 1970s, the information about buses in Irish used as a spell in Buffy, and the idea of the 'thinning of the veil' (again an invention). Just to mention a few....
Saying these myths hold no hidden knowledge or are just for entertainment assumes an insight into history we do not have. There is much to be uncovered still. One lens to unravel time is explored by Butler in his ten thousand saints. There are lines that connect locations, tribes, surnames, hagiography, wider European migrations, and colonial murder and theft, which the language, stories and DNA can perhaps connect. We just need to not assume we know too much about them.
Thanks for your very interesting comment. I agree with most of it - with all of it except (partially) the first sentence. When I say they do not have hidden knowledge, I mean this is a specific sense. They are not sacred scriptures containing mystical knowledge. Nor are they histories. Moreover, while they undoubtedly had an entertainment purpose, they do contain knowledge. Like all forms of literature they contain various ideas and thoughts that are interesting to us. Thus they can help us gain insights into the 'mentalite' of early medieval Ireland and are great for producing 'maps' of the period. However, often this knowledge is overlooked, especially when they are read through English and in a context striped of the framework, history, culture, in which they were made. Thanks for the reference to Butler. I must look that up.
@@forasfeasa my view is that while these no doubt contain cultural artifacts that help convey ideas over time, these ideas were born from real-world events. These are not exactly as conveyed, but do contain references that represent political or tribal groups who migrated to Ireland over time, merged and split into various factions. The names may have been as real as Adam and Eve, or Abraham, are to some today. The large number of saints accounted by Butler may indicate that Fionn et al are just part of a larger landscape of progenitors and memes that were later transferred to a Christian framework.
@@shaneoseasnain9730 Some would have been real events, but over time one boat can become 10, can become a 1000. And then other things are added for political/ideological reasons. For example, in the medieval early modern period, most European countries added a classical/biblical element to their origin legend. Thus, the story of Mil Espaine (a soldier of Spain) was given a Moses like prologue, while the Saxons invented a Trojan origin for themselves. So, while part of a story can be based on an event, it can be hard to discern what this was
Thanks mate. I think these old stories were mainly put together by christians too not how modern pagans say it was. The writer of the Liath Luachra novels Brian O`Sullivan will find this interesting.
Thank you for this beautiful story. 😎
You are very welcome!
Dankeschön
Tá failte romhat
You’re probably aware already, but said I’d mention it as at 15:20 ish mark, when you are talking your map of valentia and about a sense of place and names being lost. East West maps brought out maps for the Dingle peninsula last year, and they are fantastic for names, every cuas, bay, inlet, rock or cnoc has a name. Had a good chat with a farmer around Macha na Bó when they came out and he confirmed the names were right for the valley we were in. I’ll be picking up the book you mention the next time I’m down there, 👍
Thanks for that Eddie. I didn't know that. I will look for them. (I live in Valentia, both near and far from Dingle). I was at a talk about place names in Iveragh recently and I discovered that several places have different names. It is a wonderful book and is great for practising your Irish!
@@forasfeasa ah yes, you can see it, but it’s a long drive.
The guy also has blog posts you might find interesting regarding some of the names in dingle. And… I’ve already ordered that book 😁👍
thanks again for a great video,
@@eddieforde You're welcome and thanks for the heads up about East West maps.
What a great video inspiring me to pick up an earlier project of mine, thank you my friend
Thanks a lot. I had hoped to get better footage in Ventry, but the weather and time were against me. But it turned out ok. Hopefully in 10 days or so, my next one on the Battle of Callan will be out! How is your Cromwell project?
I agree that removing these stories from their place of origin and Gaelic roots changes their meaning. Celtic is the new 'British' in an effort to lay claim to a Gaelic cultural heritage transmitted now in the English language. It is important to preserve the history of these stories as much as the stories themselves.
Exactly. One of these days I want to do a series of videos called Bad History. One will be about 'mythology' - in which we have classics like the Irish potato goddess (search for that on Google), the real name of St Patrick that seems to have been invented by am American woman in the 1970s, the information about buses in Irish used as a spell in Buffy, and the idea of the 'thinning of the veil' (again an invention). Just to mention a few....
@@forasfeasathat would be really interesting!
@@Tailtiu3 thanks a lot :-)
Saying these myths hold no hidden knowledge or are just for entertainment assumes an insight into history we do not have. There is much to be uncovered still. One lens to unravel time is explored by Butler in his ten thousand saints. There are lines that connect locations, tribes, surnames, hagiography, wider European migrations, and colonial murder and theft, which the language, stories and DNA can perhaps connect. We just need to not assume we know too much about them.
Thanks for your very interesting comment. I agree with most of it - with all of it except (partially) the first sentence. When I say they do not have hidden knowledge, I mean this is a specific sense. They are not sacred scriptures containing mystical knowledge. Nor are they histories. Moreover, while they undoubtedly had an entertainment purpose, they do contain knowledge. Like all forms of literature they contain various ideas and thoughts that are interesting to us. Thus they can help us gain insights into the 'mentalite' of early medieval Ireland and are great for producing 'maps' of the period. However, often this knowledge is overlooked, especially when they are read through English and in a context striped of the framework, history, culture, in which they were made.
Thanks for the reference to Butler. I must look that up.
@@forasfeasa my view is that while these no doubt contain cultural artifacts that help convey ideas over time, these ideas were born from real-world events. These are not exactly as conveyed, but do contain references that represent political or tribal groups who migrated to Ireland over time, merged and split into various factions. The names may have been as real as Adam and Eve, or Abraham, are to some today. The large number of saints accounted by Butler may indicate that Fionn et al are just part of a larger landscape of progenitors and memes that were later transferred to a Christian framework.
@@shaneoseasnain9730 Some would have been real events, but over time one boat can become 10, can become a 1000. And then other things are added for political/ideological reasons. For example, in the medieval early modern period, most European countries added a classical/biblical element to their origin legend. Thus, the story of Mil Espaine (a soldier of Spain) was given a Moses like prologue, while the Saxons invented a Trojan origin for themselves. So, while part of a story can be based on an event, it can be hard to discern what this was
Thanks mate. I think these old stories were mainly put together by christians too not how modern pagans say it was. The writer of the Liath Luachra novels Brian O`Sullivan will find this interesting.
You're welcome. I follow Brian on Facebook, but I haven't read any of his novels. Are they good?
@@forasfeasa Yeah they`re pretty bloody good i`ve got all of them. Set in 1st century Ireland
@@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf I must look for them! :-)
Romans i wonder
Not in Ventry.... only if they were very lost :-)