For being an Ann main in this meta feels like heaven but as you said ppl in na eu aren't too good with flywheel so they bring broken windows for an easier kite and BW does actually counter Ann with that distance, so it is a bit hard in mid to low ranks.
I'm a dream witch main. now i wanna buy one more hunter. what would you recommend me to choose? sculptor, wax artist, breaking wheel, wu chang, clerk. which one has a larger potential?
For someone who mains Breaking Wheel and is currently 28th BW (I think? I haven't checked), it absolutely kills me sometimes to use him but it's also why I go with an Insolence Detention Blink build because I know people will bring flywheel, or at least think people will bring flywheel. It just helps with being able to get ties/wins in this current meta.
@@spineapplesaur806 Aight. So it's Insolence, Detention, Blink. Extra persona traits I have added on: Wanted Order, Claustrophobia, Quenching Effect, Hunt and Deteriorate (Which is the first one for 12). Of course you could probably mix and match, which is what I do sometimes but that's the build that's gotten me these ties/wins so far! (I forgot to add this in but you can also have excitement on as well depending on the team composition you go against!)
@@spineapplesaur806 nowadays meta, you definitely need detention, and any other persona actually it’s really how you play. I mainly do right down or left down with polun with max impact. I just gonna keep changing/chairing different surv the whole time eating there environment. That’s my style, but hey whatever works for you
@@spineapplesaur806 Hi! I am a former S badge Wheel. Tbh, if you're still gonna play wheel, I'd run the person's build if you want? I don't see a point in Hunt as it's really useless on wheel. You would rather want to run Wanted Order or points in breserk/rage. Just copy top builds, most of them are just inso tc or confined inso with other traits.
For the future if you or anyone wants to explain what meta is its actually an acronym that stands for Most Effect Tactic Available. Knowing that makes it pretty self explanatory. The things considered to be best are the things that are most consistent and effective with the current knowledge and state of a game. Some people mistake "meta" for popularity
dream witch deserves her place. both her skill floor and skill ceiling are high and she takes very good skill and understanding to master. long live DW!!!
Clown gets countered by everything, stunners, bees flywheel, wands. Forward is faster than him. I really like playing clown, but that takes the fun out of it
Hermit is fun to play as. I usually don't link ciphers till they have 2 popped and I'm at full presence. I farm presence at first and throw polarity at only 1 surv, love countering tight kiters like that. After I get that survey on chair and eliminate em I connect ciphers and destroy their progress with abnormal. After that I hunt the heck out of survivors and chair them all :3
i alrd feel like CLerk is A+ tier worth when she was introduce to idv.And eli just make sure that she is S tier. Broken map control(than most hunter except dw) , good base chase make her can get a hit so easily and can just blink afterward to get a 60s kite. After that is alrd a win for her due to her instantly and powerful map control everywhere at any ciphers/gates on the map and surv just cant do any thing to stop the blocking ciphers/gates.Im a new C bagde clerk and tbh just master her at medium or slightly better than that and she is A+ strong arld for rank
naiad and hermit are so annoying i once started decoding in the ever sleeping town second floor and she loops the entire building and i got an instant hit
Also opinion on weeping clown since his he was used 4 times in current summer ivl by 3 seperate teams? And embalmer whether hes meta now since BW got executed by FW
@@phoedahoe5370 embalmer is strong. Bon bon is very common early rounds now and embalmer always been good against good campers cause of free self rescue. Also good against clerk if u can coffin across the map since she doesn’t have great mobility. Weeping clown is evidently good but tbh I haven’t put too much though into him yet I’ll definitely look over the IVL and IJL clown matches before I make a new surv tier list
She got both buffed and nerfed last season Buff: * her self recording (except hit recording) play instantly. Previously they had a 1 sec delay before they played * her hit self recording has a way wider hitbox so it can actually land hits Nerf: * Reduced the time she can watch a cipher/exit gate from above from 12 to 6 seconds
@@Pew-fs5nc I don't play rank hunter that much, I'm talking about in general, and no I'm not in high teir but it's easy for me, coming from someone who has been in high rank and stopped playing and got a new account and now records gameplay.
And sure I'm not that good but at least I rarely half to camp, I've been up against really good players before so I know what it's like when I have to sweat
If you want to counter the global portal: hunter with high mobility (so wu chang, broken wheel...) If you want to counter regulare portal, any hunter is good just bring desperate fight
Undead is also good with dealing with long portals since survivors get “chaired” immediately upon down. I wouldn’t recommend Undead to counter a Sacred Heart Priestess though. Also you have to watch out for when Priestess sends the long portal to a downed survivor to heal them up.
I agree that Ann counters flywheel, but I wouldn't put her in A+ tier. Even before flywheel was implemented, there is a reason she wasn't used often in tournaments. She is certainly tourney viable, but I think the best she can get is a tie. IMO she just loses, either getting three manned or even four manned. I'm not sure what you're basing your list off of, but if A+ are the hunters that lose but can still get a kill, then she's in the correct position. But I also totally disagree with BQ being A+ tier... now that everyone uses flywheel, she is practically unviable in the first two or even three rounds of tournament... When she is used, the hunters lose miserably. There's a reason that even before flywheel was added, BQ began not being used as much... Then with Naiad, I'd just put her in A- tier since her water is super countered by deadhard... Is this tier list based on tournament or rank though? That's a really important factor to consider for reasons I can explain if asked... Anyway, this is just my own input so feel free to reply ^^ I'm happy for discussion
You might want to checkout more global competitive tournaments like China IVL and Japan IJL. The majority of the top hunter in the world out of China and Japan have picked up Ann she’s extremely viable now and one of the best tie hunters (you have to realize that in global top tiers being able to constantly tie is very good since the game is very survivor sided). As of recently in IJL and IVL, Naiad is one of the most commonly used round 2-3 hunters. He explained in the video why flywheel doesn’t counter her as hard as people think😭. I would checkout that part of it or definitely brush up on some of the China and Japan league gameplays. BQ is also is still quite popular and viable as well. Hope this helps!
@@alexanderson6513 @Alex Anderson Yeah, I watch those tournaments. And I still have the same opinions. When I see a BQ, they get three or even four manned. and listen, i already know, that being able to tie is good. but ann is out here getting 3 manned to four manned as well. BQ is good, but maybe as a round 3 or 4 pick. my idea of A+ is being able to be played in round 2 and tie. Ann frankly cannot tie in round 2 bans. I believe they can ban three characters? Ok, priest seer merc. Great. Then there's Ada, Forward, Batter, Mechanic (although not as good anymore, setting up for tie almost with her), gravekeeper, toy merchant, patient, postman, etc. And tbh, kiting ann, even without support, is easy if you are in a good area which is why if you're playing a slightly weak character like postman, you just immediately rotate. If there are matches where she has won, i can easily name out the mistakes. Same with BQ, flywheel for one thing, and then just fast decoders. her entire kit means that she will spend at least over 40 seconds on a chase if not blink, and then there's how many harassers to worry about and wait for mirror? And same with the other characters, so many are good against her. Maybe she can tie, but tbh, i think if she ties, the survivors messed up. And im saying messed up round 2 or even round 3 (slightly pushing it). Again, I feel like there are just too many hunters in A+ tier. Please, send me links and I can re watch some matches and maybe change what I think, but trust me, I am making these observations and statements as someone who watches a lot of CN gameplay and JP. oh and just another thing, like watching JP, i watch first ann in the server and they struggle to tie sometimes. tbh sometimes it is just a problem with who gets spawned where. This ann brings Up down blink, ultimate tie build, and sometimes loses because losses with her are honestly impossible to avoid. and again like,,, ento, embalmer, etc., there are just so many characters to make up for the bans of round 2 and 3. and yeah, I do think Naiad is fine where she is, but it's just weird for me to see so many hunters in A+ tier when meta used to be so strict before like in COA 3. I understand SW is good, but I would put her in A- tier just because of the same reasons i listed for the other hunters prior. sorry I'm writing so much, but also like.. again, is this Tournament or rank based because I am going entirely off of tournament logic. If this is tournament based, obviously teams going against each other will know what characters the other team plays so if people know you play Ann, they will purposefully choose survivors to counter ann like prospector. and even if BQ is used instead for prospector, he brings deadhard and then gets support and manages to kite you over 3 ciphers and they don't cipher lock themselves. this is just my logic and I can imagine the games just easily going downhill for the hunters you are naming. also like with naiad, it's difficult to flywheel, but i wouldn't really say it's impossible... there is a clear trick of flywheeling at 98... Maybe I do need to rewatch some gameplays, but again, even Eli said she's a good late round characters. My logic is going from who can be viable in early rounds to going down who can be viable in late rounds to who is just unviable entirely.
@@o-o1437 Ann and Spider aren’t ban dependent more so map dependent, Ann is undeniably meta rn imo. With the introduction of area select she no longer gets rotated. Ann she always had one of the best early game chases especially with good curving. She can chase basically anyone, cancel items, has anti harass, good camp, can lock decoding, and has mobility. She is basically BQ and Naiad but better with more win conditions because she can actually camp, and also doesn’t get rebound kited. With blink she’s basically a guaranteed tie minimum. She just struggles more on certain maps with elevation and obstacles. Spider is similar but has a higher skill cap and is more map dependent, but she can effectively chase basically anyone in this meta and semi counters flywheel and had pretty good camp especially if she happens to get basement. Same with Naiad
@@NonbinaryKeigan Ann is map dependent, I agree, but on few maps. What do you think her best maps are? I believe though that, as the characters I stated early, just counter her hard, especially in early game. Like okay, I get how in moonlit, it's to an advantage for her, but then what about patient and toy merchant who thrive in those maps? Or even acrobat. Yeah, I mentioned blink up down build for Ann already, but then what about embalmer or other such characters. And ok, introduction of area select, but she doesn't see who gets spawned where. All she knows is where they spawn, correct? At least that's how it is according to rank. Hunters already knew spawn areas, at least key spawns. Regardless, the "weakest" characters just need to spawn in the best area and then are assisted with other characters. Trust me, I totally get Ann's ability. I played ann for 150 matches straight and got to dragon for the first time with an extremely high win rate because I know how easy it is to secure ties with her. But she is weak... The reason I love watching first ann in Asia is because I love seeing his curved jumps. I get that certain areas can be countered with her jumps, but if a survivor that is transition based is her first kite, her one leap won't be able to get her to even stun the character. And her anti harass only goes so far. What about people who harass her while she is chasing another survivor? Like a batter? Or forward? Or antiquarian? or wildling? Etc., like ok, one survivor is not decoding, but that means that the other two are decoding and they are playing for accelerated decoding. And then when ann finally gets first chair, there's only 2 ciphers left with progress. There's also cowboy, what if there are two harassers? Like a batter, forward, cowboy, etc., What if a survivor just dies in back of red church with a batter and cowboy and they are dead on chair but last cipher is 50%. cowboy forces drop, then batter harasses, or then the survivor struggles out? Basically my point is that there are MANY strategies to combat ann that will work. and good camp can be countered by just coming early to the chair, or even just stunning her, etc., and ok, lock decoding, but then the survivor being chased just needs to kite where there aren't ciphers being decoded. that's a KEY factor in cipher rush. And i feel like, in the tournament aspect, teams would, or should, communicate where to kite. and who says she can't be rebound kited? What about stunners? what about coord gun? what about forward stun after rescue? etc., it's not black and white with her. Her blink and having up and down may enable her to only get just one kill end game on big maps. but yeah, feel free to discuss anything else related to ann because I welcome it. And if ann does win in a tournament, I feel like at that point, it's the survivor's fault. this game is undeniably survivor-sided, and ann is just not meant to win in the current meta. show me a game with her winning and I can easily point out the survivor's mistakes. Spider is similar and certainly with a higher skill cap. I love spider too. She's great to use. I may rethink my placement of her, but I feel like she just isn't a first or second round character. And again, what I think of as meta are characters who are able to be used in round 1 and 2. And like... ok, basement. Tbf anyone can absolutely dominate in basement (especially gamekeeper LOL), but what are the chances of it? Plus then she has to spend time camping in the basement instead of chairing at a cipher. I do understand your point though. She can chase basically anyone in the meta, i also agree to that. but like, the support teams do to keep each other alive is actually amazing. But again, i get your point. I think she counters batter, forward to a degree, and most stunners tbh (and transition kiters -ish). But i feel like because she is hurt by cipher rush (like all hunters) and doesn't have any map control ability, she can get cipher rushed. Like even if the batter push and she goes back into webs, it seem like it won't matter too much, but then it stacks and the time it takes for her to go back into webs and chase the original survivor makes it so a cipher can pop. There's a reason why Clerk and DW are s tier, the map control is insane. but yeah. I do think though that because some hunters are map dependent, like how you maybe wouldn't play DW on leo's memory, it's hard to see who would be a good choice for round 1 and 2. but in general, i would not play ann in round 1 or 2. I would play spider in maybe round 2 (if I was very good (obviously lol) and the survivor team was like a patient, maybe seer, forward, batter, idk) but it's just hard to counter all of survivor meta when there is such a vast list to choose from. also, i appreciate your comment. I really do love to discuss strategies within IDV. Thank you!
Spider and Ann are characters that, imo, you play the long game against because cipher rush is the most important so a harasser with low decoding speed helping out the survivor being chased won't be detrimental to the cipher rush. instead having a chair EARLY is the most detrimental thing to cipher rush. hope this makes sense.
It’s not wrong, it varies but he’s speaking on a professional level, she’s a strong tie hunter with high win potential in low-mid tiers but pros can kite out mirrors, I’d def put her above niad, bonbon and Ann personally but it’s not inaccurate.
I wish that was the case lol really used to enjoy playing wheel. In tournaments, he’s gone from being used by almost every hunter player to hardly any. In top tier rank, hunters rarely use him anymore due to the fact flywheel is a direct hard counter to basically all of his abilities. Hope this helps :)
I love how Eli just have to admit wax is A + tier and he hates it XD
For being an Ann main in this meta feels like heaven but as you said ppl in na eu aren't too good with flywheel so they bring broken windows for an easier kite and BW does actually counter Ann with that distance, so it is a bit hard in mid to low ranks.
Ann is so annoying lmao. Whenever I bring Flywheel I feel like I'm matched against Ann
my clerk
Helping the community become better by spreading good knowledge, love ur vids Eli!!
Don’t nerf my clerk, netease, she’s already too situational 😭
I'm a dream witch main. now i wanna buy one more hunter. what would you recommend me to choose? sculptor, wax artist, breaking wheel, wu chang, clerk. which one has a larger potential?
@@kristianlama3217 SCULPTOR!
@@kristianlama3217 Use Mary she is amazing
Nah. In 3v1 situation it's literally unwinable 🙂
@@ArchangelSunday unwinable for which side
For someone who mains Breaking Wheel and is currently 28th BW (I think? I haven't checked), it absolutely kills me sometimes to use him but it's also why I go with an Insolence Detention Blink build because I know people will bring flywheel, or at least think people will bring flywheel. It just helps with being able to get ties/wins in this current meta.
BW main here please tell me your build I need it
@@spineapplesaur806 Aight. So it's Insolence, Detention, Blink. Extra persona traits I have added on: Wanted Order, Claustrophobia, Quenching Effect, Hunt and Deteriorate (Which is the first one for 12). Of course you could probably mix and match, which is what I do sometimes but that's the build that's gotten me these ties/wins so far!
(I forgot to add this in but you can also have excitement on as well depending on the team composition you go against!)
@@spineapplesaur806 nowadays meta, you definitely need detention, and any other persona actually it’s really how you play.
I mainly do right down or left down with polun
with max impact. I just gonna keep changing/chairing different surv the whole time eating there environment. That’s my style, but hey whatever works for you
@@spineapplesaur806 Hi! I am a former S badge Wheel. Tbh, if you're still gonna play wheel, I'd run the person's build if you want? I don't see a point in Hunt as it's really useless on wheel. You would rather want to run Wanted Order or points in breserk/rage. Just copy top builds, most of them are just inso tc or confined inso with other traits.
Eli carries this community
For the future if you or anyone wants to explain what meta is its actually an acronym that stands for Most Effect Tactic Available. Knowing that makes it pretty self explanatory. The things considered to be best are the things that are most consistent and effective with the current knowledge and state of a game. Some people mistake "meta" for popularity
dream witch deserves her place. both her skill floor and skill ceiling are high and she takes very good skill and understanding to master. long live DW!!!
that female dancer match against breaking wheel was SO good 26:15
the 8 main pop girls at the top as they should be
Also with Percy, if you have flywheel you can avoid his 2nd presence ability but you have to be quick
You can also avoid his dash
@@somethingabsbhdhdh yeah but they charge up really fast so it's a bit useless unless it's to transition to another/strong kiting area
I know how hard to avoid that skill XD
Clown gets countered by everything, stunners, bees flywheel, wands. Forward is faster than him. I really like playing clown, but that takes the fun out of it
Hermit is fun to play as. I usually don't link ciphers till they have 2 popped and I'm at full presence.
I farm presence at first and throw polarity at only 1 surv, love countering tight kiters like that. After I get that survey on chair and eliminate em I connect ciphers and destroy their progress with abnormal.
After that I hunt the heck out of survivors and chair them all :3
Finally someone that puts clerk where she belongs
amazing content eli_0 keep the work up king ur the best idv player yet ez ez ez ezi eezeseez
Great Tierlist Eli!
i love the occasional dog cameo, keep it up 🌜
🐕
Flywheel really ruins most hunters… it’s sad. 😢
Nice video though, Eli. These videos help me so much!
Its literally dead hard from dbd, you wait and they use their flywheel and you hit, voilaa
@@GoddessOfDeathh I know that it’s dead hard. It’s just reallllyyyyy effective in idv
I do play both and Dead Hard is a pain for killers lol idk why it was put in IDV
@@hooty0057 they put it at the exact moment that Dead Hard was changed in DBD bcuz of how strong it was, its ridiculous
Great video
I’m so glad to see my bloody queen in a+ tier still… I don’t think she will be in a tier next season though 😢
She probably will :). BQ is pretty consistent so it’s going to take a lot to knock her out of A+
BQ mains try not to whine challenge
9:21 u meant "good survivors with a decent ping" lol. There ain't no way I can time it at the same time I take the hit.
i alrd feel like CLerk is A+ tier worth when she was introduce to idv.And eli just make sure that she is S tier. Broken map control(than most hunter except dw) , good base chase make her can get a hit so easily and can just blink afterward to get a 60s kite. After that is alrd a win for her due to her instantly and powerful map control everywhere at any ciphers/gates on the map and surv just cant do any thing to stop the blocking ciphers/gates.Im a new C bagde clerk and tbh just master her at medium or slightly better than that and she is A+ strong arld for rank
They are banning my clerk when I reached cyclops. And ever since I play clerk, the rest hunter are just meh
Lets be honest here flywheel is pretty much for BW
Remember when everyone was saying that Clerk was awful?
now all of them got instant regret bcs she is so strong
She makes tournament players look like worker bee noobs
She’s that good
naiad and hermit are so annoying i once started decoding in the ever sleeping town second floor and she loops the entire building and i got an instant hit
Slayed, i agree with the tl 👍👍👍👍👍
Also opinion on weeping clown since his he was used 4 times in current summer ivl by 3 seperate teams?
And embalmer whether hes meta now since BW got executed by FW
@@phoedahoe5370 weeping clown is good imo I put him in S tier surv when they first added him into the game, now after the nerf he’s even better
@@phoedahoe5370 embalmer is strong. Bon bon is very common early rounds now and embalmer always been good against good campers cause of free self rescue. Also good against clerk if u can coffin across the map since she doesn’t have great mobility. Weeping clown is evidently good but tbh I haven’t put too much though into him yet I’ll definitely look over the IVL and IJL clown matches before I make a new surv tier list
big W for women enjoyers
Wow new vid
My boy feaster my be pretty low but I enjoy using him to much to switch
What about tier list for survivor for season 23?
Where does dong x stream?
Just came back to the game, did Clerk get buffed?
No she actually got nerfed
She got both buffed and nerfed last season
Buff:
* her self recording (except hit recording) play instantly. Previously they had a 1 sec delay before they played
* her hit self recording has a way wider hitbox so it can actually land hits
Nerf:
* Reduced the time she can watch a cipher/exit gate from above from 12 to 6 seconds
@@Blitz.Beetle just a small correction but it not a 1s delay it used to be a 2s delay
I just remember Antonio being s tier...
Magician is the best hunter
I will argue that wu chang is better than b teir cause I'm able to find people very easy with him I have great early chase
Lemme guess, you play against Elks
@@Pew-fs5nc I don't play rank hunter that much, I'm talking about in general, and no I'm not in high teir but it's easy for me, coming from someone who has been in high rank and stopped playing and got a new account and now records gameplay.
And sure I'm not that good but at least I rarely half to camp, I've been up against really good players before so I know what it's like when I have to sweat
Can we please buff ripper- a ripper main
which hunter counters priestess best?
If you want to counter the global portal: hunter with high mobility (so wu chang, broken wheel...)
If you want to counter regulare portal, any hunter is good just bring desperate fight
Long story short: you can't
Undead is also good with dealing with long portals since survivors get “chaired” immediately upon down.
I wouldn’t recommend Undead to counter a Sacred Heart Priestess though.
Also you have to watch out for when Priestess sends the long portal to a downed survivor to heal them up.
I agree that Ann counters flywheel, but I wouldn't put her in A+ tier. Even before flywheel was implemented, there is a reason she wasn't used often in tournaments. She is certainly tourney viable, but I think the best she can get is a tie. IMO she just loses, either getting three manned or even four manned. I'm not sure what you're basing your list off of, but if A+ are the hunters that lose but can still get a kill, then she's in the correct position.
But I also totally disagree with BQ being A+ tier... now that everyone uses flywheel, she is practically unviable in the first two or even three rounds of tournament... When she is used, the hunters lose miserably. There's a reason that even before flywheel was added, BQ began not being used as much...
Then with Naiad, I'd just put her in A- tier since her water is super countered by deadhard...
Is this tier list based on tournament or rank though? That's a really important factor to consider for reasons I can explain if asked... Anyway, this is just my own input so feel free to reply ^^ I'm happy for discussion
You might want to checkout more global competitive tournaments like China IVL and Japan IJL. The majority of the top hunter in the world out of China and Japan have picked up Ann she’s extremely viable now and one of the best tie hunters (you have to realize that in global top tiers being able to constantly tie is very good since the game is very survivor sided). As of recently in IJL and IVL, Naiad is one of the most commonly used round 2-3 hunters. He explained in the video why flywheel doesn’t counter her as hard as people think😭. I would checkout that part of it or definitely brush up on some of the China and Japan league gameplays. BQ is also is still quite popular and viable as well. Hope this helps!
@@alexanderson6513 @Alex Anderson Yeah, I watch those tournaments. And I still have the same opinions. When I see a BQ, they get three or even four manned. and listen, i already know, that being able to tie is good. but ann is out here getting 3 manned to four manned as well. BQ is good, but maybe as a round 3 or 4 pick. my idea of A+ is being able to be played in round 2 and tie. Ann frankly cannot tie in round 2 bans. I believe they can ban three characters? Ok, priest seer merc. Great. Then there's Ada, Forward, Batter, Mechanic (although not as good anymore, setting up for tie almost with her), gravekeeper, toy merchant, patient, postman, etc. And tbh, kiting ann, even without support, is easy if you are in a good area which is why if you're playing a slightly weak character like postman, you just immediately rotate. If there are matches where she has won, i can easily name out the mistakes. Same with BQ, flywheel for one thing, and then just fast decoders. her entire kit means that she will spend at least over 40 seconds on a chase if not blink, and then there's how many harassers to worry about and wait for mirror? And same with the other characters, so many are good against her. Maybe she can tie, but tbh, i think if she ties, the survivors messed up. And im saying messed up round 2 or even round 3 (slightly pushing it). Again, I feel like there are just too many hunters in A+ tier. Please, send me links and I can re watch some matches and maybe change what I think, but trust me, I am making these observations and statements as someone who watches a lot of CN gameplay and JP.
oh and just another thing, like watching JP, i watch first ann in the server and they struggle to tie sometimes. tbh sometimes it is just a problem with who gets spawned where. This ann brings Up down blink, ultimate tie build, and sometimes loses because losses with her are honestly impossible to avoid. and again like,,, ento, embalmer, etc., there are just so many characters to make up for the bans of round 2 and 3.
and yeah, I do think Naiad is fine where she is, but it's just weird for me to see so many hunters in A+ tier when meta used to be so strict before like in COA 3. I understand SW is good, but I would put her in A- tier just because of the same reasons i listed for the other hunters prior.
sorry I'm writing so much, but also like.. again, is this Tournament or rank based because I am going entirely off of tournament logic. If this is tournament based, obviously teams going against each other will know what characters the other team plays so if people know you play Ann, they will purposefully choose survivors to counter ann like prospector. and even if BQ is used instead for prospector, he brings deadhard and then gets support and manages to kite you over 3 ciphers and they don't cipher lock themselves. this is just my logic and I can imagine the games just easily going downhill for the hunters you are naming.
also like with naiad, it's difficult to flywheel, but i wouldn't really say it's impossible... there is a clear trick of flywheeling at 98... Maybe I do need to rewatch some gameplays, but again, even Eli said she's a good late round characters. My logic is going from who can be viable in early rounds to going down who can be viable in late rounds to who is just unviable entirely.
@@o-o1437 Ann and Spider aren’t ban dependent more so map dependent, Ann is undeniably meta rn imo. With the introduction of area select she no longer gets rotated. Ann she always had one of the best early game chases especially with good curving. She can chase basically anyone, cancel items, has anti harass, good camp, can lock decoding, and has mobility. She is basically BQ and Naiad but better with more win conditions because she can actually camp, and also doesn’t get rebound kited. With blink she’s basically a guaranteed tie minimum. She just struggles more on certain maps with elevation and obstacles.
Spider is similar but has a higher skill cap and is more map dependent, but she can effectively chase basically anyone in this meta and semi counters flywheel and had pretty good camp especially if she happens to get basement. Same with Naiad
@@NonbinaryKeigan Ann is map dependent, I agree, but on few maps. What do you think her best maps are? I believe though that, as the characters I stated early, just counter her hard, especially in early game. Like okay, I get how in moonlit, it's to an advantage for her, but then what about patient and toy merchant who thrive in those maps? Or even acrobat. Yeah, I mentioned blink up down build for Ann already, but then what about embalmer or other such characters. And ok, introduction of area select, but she doesn't see who gets spawned where. All she knows is where they spawn, correct? At least that's how it is according to rank. Hunters already knew spawn areas, at least key spawns. Regardless, the "weakest" characters just need to spawn in the best area and then are assisted with other characters. Trust me, I totally get Ann's ability. I played ann for 150 matches straight and got to dragon for the first time with an extremely high win rate because I know how easy it is to secure ties with her. But she is weak... The reason I love watching first ann in Asia is because I love seeing his curved jumps. I get that certain areas can be countered with her jumps, but if a survivor that is transition based is her first kite, her one leap won't be able to get her to even stun the character. And her anti harass only goes so far. What about people who harass her while she is chasing another survivor? Like a batter? Or forward? Or antiquarian? or wildling? Etc., like ok, one survivor is not decoding, but that means that the other two are decoding and they are playing for accelerated decoding. And then when ann finally gets first chair, there's only 2 ciphers left with progress. There's also cowboy, what if there are two harassers? Like a batter, forward, cowboy, etc., What if a survivor just dies in back of red church with a batter and cowboy and they are dead on chair but last cipher is 50%. cowboy forces drop, then batter harasses, or then the survivor struggles out? Basically my point is that there are MANY strategies to combat ann that will work. and good camp can be countered by just coming early to the chair, or even just stunning her, etc., and ok, lock decoding, but then the survivor being chased just needs to kite where there aren't ciphers being decoded. that's a KEY factor in cipher rush. And i feel like, in the tournament aspect, teams would, or should, communicate where to kite. and who says she can't be rebound kited? What about stunners? what about coord gun? what about forward stun after rescue? etc., it's not black and white with her. Her blink and having up and down may enable her to only get just one kill end game on big maps. but yeah, feel free to discuss anything else related to ann because I welcome it. And if ann does win in a tournament, I feel like at that point, it's the survivor's fault. this game is undeniably survivor-sided, and ann is just not meant to win in the current meta. show me a game with her winning and I can easily point out the survivor's mistakes.
Spider is similar and certainly with a higher skill cap. I love spider too. She's great to use. I may rethink my placement of her, but I feel like she just isn't a first or second round character. And again, what I think of as meta are characters who are able to be used in round 1 and 2. And like... ok, basement. Tbf anyone can absolutely dominate in basement (especially gamekeeper LOL), but what are the chances of it? Plus then she has to spend time camping in the basement instead of chairing at a cipher. I do understand your point though. She can chase basically anyone in the meta, i also agree to that. but like, the support teams do to keep each other alive is actually amazing. But again, i get your point. I think she counters batter, forward to a degree, and most stunners tbh (and transition kiters -ish). But i feel like because she is hurt by cipher rush (like all hunters) and doesn't have any map control ability, she can get cipher rushed. Like even if the batter push and she goes back into webs, it seem like it won't matter too much, but then it stacks and the time it takes for her to go back into webs and chase the original survivor makes it so a cipher can pop. There's a reason why Clerk and DW are s tier, the map control is insane. but yeah. I do think though that because some hunters are map dependent, like how you maybe wouldn't play DW on leo's memory, it's hard to see who would be a good choice for round 1 and 2. but in general, i would not play ann in round 1 or 2. I would play spider in maybe round 2 (if I was very good (obviously lol) and the survivor team was like a patient, maybe seer, forward, batter, idk) but it's just hard to counter all of survivor meta when there is such a vast list to choose from.
also, i appreciate your comment. I really do love to discuss strategies within IDV. Thank you!
Spider and Ann are characters that, imo, you play the long game against because cipher rush is the most important so a harasser with low decoding speed helping out the survivor being chased won't be detrimental to the cipher rush. instead having a chair EARLY is the most detrimental thing to cipher rush. hope this makes sense.
Time stamps?
the peeper in the toilet?😭
Yeah...the placement of BW is definitely untrue
It’s not wrong, it varies but he’s speaking on a professional level, she’s a strong tie hunter with high win potential in low-mid tiers but pros can kite out mirrors, I’d def put her above niad, bonbon and Ann personally but it’s not inaccurate.
@@Celestiiiial sorry friend by BW i meant breaking wheel
@@sir-axel-himself oh Im so sorry thats embarrassing
@@Celestiiiial ITS OKAY HELP dont be sorry idv acronyms are confusing sometimes
I wish that was the case lol really used to enjoy playing wheel. In tournaments, he’s gone from being used by almost every hunter player to hardly any. In top tier rank, hunters rarely use him anymore due to the fact flywheel is a direct hard counter to basically all of his abilities. Hope this helps :)
Flywheel it’s big mistake
nerf clerk netease
I smell skill issues
women hunters>>>>>>>
Wth