hi nice landing, i fly cj m2 as a copilot my question is: did you transitioned to green needle manualy or ghost needle and did you selected apr or loc mode? Asking because captain tried it in ghost needle with apr mode?? Thanks
… by now, this goes years back and I have to think for a moment. During the procedure turn outbound CALDO speed control and the pre-establishment of the challenging steep approach configuration is everything. Theoretically you could fly the turn in NAV or RNAV, but I recall I and the colleagues would have preferred an additional level of manual control, so most probably we approached the final approach course in HDG and ALT mode with APPRCH pre-selected; an additional challenge on this one is - with the right speed and config established to fly into the VNAV needle as well without having to much oscillation around the 6.6 degree glide path. Whatever, flying into Lugano was always a highlight, a challenge in the most positive ways - thx for your question!
Thx for your comment ... My apologies, it is to far back in time. Have no copy anymore. But all the waypoints and charts for the arrival and approach are shown in the video
Brian McGee Thx for your comment. I used to do that more. However, the problem of fliming out of my hand is the influence from turbulences. So at some point I did most of the fliming with a ram mount. However, with my new setup, Iphone 6+ that has limits anyways, as the 6+'s stabilization together with the frequencies of the airplane results in considerable "wobble" of the end product. ... currently thinking of an approach that meets some of your suggestions
Hi, I recently had a look in flightradar24 to see the track of the flights arriving into rwy 01 and it seems as if they prolong the downwind leg much further than what the formal approach states. I guess that they are guided by ATC further south so that the approach is some how easier but it would be interesting if somebody could confirm that.
Hi Jose, thank you for your great question! Two or three things are important upfront: Lugano is in the close (air traffic wise) vicinity of Milano-Malpensa. Basically the extended centerline of Lugano runs straight into the Malpensa complex. The Lugano approach is very steep (initiates high, approach angle is 6.6 degrees) and the surrounding terrain does not leave many options on missed approaches. Add to that the often tricky weather over Lugano and the fact that the IGS can only be flown when properly qualified (most pilots have only the level 1 qualification for Lugano which does not allow them to fly the IGS). So, yes, approach control is initially provided by Malpensa Radar. Malpensa will hand over to Lugano approach sometime during the initial phase. As soon as an approach is active, could be a visual, too, the succeeding traffic will hold over PINIK before commencing the final approach. Hence, when two aircraft are on approach or preparing so, the Lugano system is already congested and Lugano will not accept the handover from Malpensa, while Malpensa will typically extend the downwind indeed. They have a few other options but not many. Anyway, the Lugano approach is one of the finest challenges the European system offers. Good teamwork and exact approach briefings are essential, particularly in IMC. The rewarding feeling on the ground is always good. But I do nit mean this in a way that any inappropriate risks are to be taken, not at all. Lugano can be done with simple and disciplined training very well.
Mehr Spaß am Spaß Haben Haben , thk you ver y much for your comment, very interesting ! I’ve got a further question concerning the IGS approach: do you have a glideslope indicator or it is just horizontal guidance?
Jose, an IGS is - in simplified terms - an ILS that does not lead to the runway. It leads you to a point where you have to make a decision if you can land visually. Take adjacent Sion with it´s IGS where the concept is even more clear. The IGS into Sion starts in the vicinity of the Aletsch Glacier and passes a point called ALETO shortly before final approach guides you down to a point offset to the right from the centerline and some distance from Sion airport. However, both in Sion and Lugano the visualization in the cockpit is like on an ILS. So yes, you have a glideslope like if you were flying on a regular ILS. Keep in min, though, that only a few operators are actually certified to the fly the IGS in Lugano. Most operators have to fly the LOC/DME H for RWY19 approach. This sounds complicated, ... and it is. Basically the LOC/DME follows a slightly shallower glide angle than the IGS to a slightly higher decision point at which the decision is to be made if a circling approach for 19 is possible - that is a sort of visual traffic pattern starting with downwind for 19. The visual circling approach is tricky in itself, particularly when WX is almost at limits. Typically and if the wind situation allows pilots would fly down the LOC/DME 19H approach, use the IGS for additional guidance and if at the decision point they have RW01 in view they will opt to continue visually straight in to RW01. It is also good airmanship to discuss this beforehand with the controller so he knows upfront that if you can you want to go visually into 01. I hope answer is not to complicated with all the additional information.
+Grant Gibson thx for your comment Grant. First time you fly this approach (in good wx) it is amazing when you see the tiny runway between the mountains down the 6,6 degree steep approach path. You have to fly it once to believe that you can actually land a jet there. Speed management is absolutely vital. And you are right: In marginal weather it becomes a serious challenge. You will see nothing, but yet you know there are many mountains and the valley is really narrow. We will typically extra thoroughly brief the approach and give the missed procedure an extra focus. Once you go missed in Lugano everything goes very fast, little time for playing around with the FMS or autopilot; if the TOGA change does not work immediately on the FMS better fly it by hand and have your colleague brief you very well thru the procedure. The first turn on the missed procedure requires a max speed of 150 KIAS and a minimum angle of 25 degree ... the whole thing is very fulfilling though. It always feels great to have had the chance to fly this approach again. - And if you are up to stay in Lugano: Try to get food in nearby Italy, its better and way cheaper. It is also only a 45 minute drive to Lago di Como and then a short hop across the lake to Bellagio - maybe the most romantic location on earth!
@@MehrSpaamSpaHabenHaben Ja wir sind immer nach Italien rüber zu unserer Stammpizzeria. Wir haben ein Ferienhaus in Lugano und ich bewundere immernoch jedes Mal die Ankunft
@@Brooks__EU ... der Schlüssel ist die Geschwindigkeitsreduktion im Intermediäre Approach Segment; wenns am FAF losgeht muß man in Lugano den Approach Speed schon etabliert haben
hi nice landing, i fly cj m2 as a copilot my question is: did you transitioned to green needle manualy or ghost needle and did you selected apr or loc mode? Asking because captain tried it in ghost needle with apr mode?? Thanks
… by now, this goes years back and I have to think for a moment. During the procedure turn outbound CALDO speed control and the pre-establishment of the challenging steep approach configuration is everything. Theoretically you could fly the turn in NAV or RNAV, but I recall I and the colleagues would have preferred an additional level of manual control, so most probably we approached the final approach course in HDG and ALT mode with APPRCH pre-selected; an additional challenge on this one is - with the right speed and config established to fly into the VNAV needle as well without having to much oscillation around the 6.6 degree glide path. Whatever, flying into Lugano was always a highlight, a challenge in the most positive ways - thx for your question!
Very interesting flight. The comment was helpful. Could you perhaps list the flight plan here?
Thx for your comment ... My apologies, it is to far back in time. Have no copy anymore. But all the waypoints and charts for the arrival and approach are shown in the video
I love your videos, is there anyway you can mount your cameras so we can see the instrument panels during the entire flight? Thank you!
Brian McGee
Thx for your comment. I used to do that more. However, the problem of fliming out of my hand is the influence from turbulences. So at some point I did most of the fliming with a ram mount. However, with my new setup, Iphone 6+ that has limits anyways, as the 6+'s stabilization together with the frequencies of the airplane results in considerable "wobble" of the end product. ... currently thinking of an approach that meets some of your suggestions
Thank you for the response and taking the time to post your videos!
Hi, I recently had a look in flightradar24 to see the track of the flights arriving into rwy 01 and it seems as if they prolong the downwind leg much further than what the formal approach states. I guess that they are guided by ATC further south so that the approach is some how easier but it would be interesting if somebody could confirm that.
Hi Jose, thank you for your great question! Two or three things are important upfront: Lugano is in the close (air traffic wise) vicinity of Milano-Malpensa. Basically the extended centerline of Lugano runs straight into the Malpensa complex. The Lugano approach is very steep (initiates high, approach angle is 6.6 degrees) and the surrounding terrain does not leave many options on missed approaches. Add to that the often tricky weather over Lugano and the fact that the IGS can only be flown when properly qualified (most pilots have only the level 1 qualification for Lugano which does not allow them to fly the IGS). So, yes, approach control is initially provided by Malpensa Radar. Malpensa will hand over to Lugano approach sometime during the initial phase. As soon as an approach is active, could be a visual, too, the succeeding traffic will hold over PINIK before commencing the final approach. Hence, when two aircraft are on approach or preparing so, the Lugano system is already congested and Lugano will not accept the handover from Malpensa, while Malpensa will typically extend the downwind indeed. They have a few other options but not many. Anyway, the Lugano approach is one of the finest challenges the European system offers. Good teamwork and exact approach briefings are essential, particularly in IMC. The rewarding feeling on the ground is always good. But I do nit mean this in a way that any inappropriate risks are to be taken, not at all. Lugano can be done with simple and disciplined training very well.
Mehr Spaß am Spaß Haben Haben , thk you ver y much for your comment, very interesting ! I’ve got a further question concerning the IGS approach: do you have a glideslope indicator or it is just horizontal guidance?
Jose, an IGS is - in simplified terms - an ILS that does not lead to the runway. It leads you to a point where you have to make a decision if you can land visually. Take adjacent Sion with it´s IGS where the concept is even more clear. The IGS into Sion starts in the vicinity of the Aletsch Glacier and passes a point called ALETO shortly before final approach guides you down to a point offset to the right from the centerline and some distance from Sion airport. However, both in Sion and Lugano the visualization in the cockpit is like on an ILS. So yes, you have a glideslope like if you were flying on a regular ILS. Keep in min, though, that only a few operators are actually certified to the fly the IGS in Lugano. Most operators have to fly the LOC/DME H for RWY19 approach. This sounds complicated, ... and it is. Basically the LOC/DME follows a slightly shallower glide angle than the IGS to a slightly higher decision point at which the decision is to be made if a circling approach for 19 is possible - that is a sort of visual traffic pattern starting with downwind for 19. The visual circling approach is tricky in itself, particularly when WX is almost at limits. Typically and if the wind situation allows pilots would fly down the LOC/DME 19H approach, use the IGS for additional guidance and if at the decision point they have RW01 in view they will opt to continue visually straight in to RW01. It is also good airmanship to discuss this beforehand with the controller so he knows upfront that if you can you want to go visually into 01. I hope answer is not to complicated with all the additional information.
Mehr Spaß am Spaß Haben Haben thank you very much, that was a very clear explanation, best regards.
Very nice approach. Must be a little nerve racking in min wx!
+Grant Gibson
thx for your comment Grant. First time you fly this approach (in good wx) it is amazing when you see the tiny runway between the mountains down the 6,6 degree steep approach path. You have to fly it once to believe that you can actually land a jet there. Speed management is absolutely vital. And you are right: In marginal weather it becomes a serious challenge. You will see nothing, but yet you know there are many mountains and the valley is really narrow. We will typically extra thoroughly brief the approach and give the missed procedure an extra focus. Once you go missed in Lugano everything goes very fast, little time for playing around with the FMS or autopilot; if the TOGA change does not work immediately on the FMS better fly it by hand and have your colleague brief you very well thru the procedure. The first turn on the missed procedure requires a max speed of 150 KIAS and a minimum angle of 25 degree ... the whole thing is very fulfilling though. It always feels great to have had the chance to fly this approach again. - And if you are up to stay in Lugano: Try to get food in nearby Italy, its better and way cheaper. It is also only a 45 minute drive to Lago di Como and then a short hop across the lake to Bellagio - maybe the most romantic location on earth!
@@MehrSpaamSpaHabenHaben Ja wir sind immer nach Italien rüber zu unserer Stammpizzeria. Wir haben ein Ferienhaus in Lugano und ich bewundere immernoch jedes Mal die Ankunft
Brooks 😎
@@MehrSpaamSpaHabenHaben Ich probiers aktuell selbst aus im Cirrus SF50 G2 mit G1000 in xplane haha verdammt ist das steil
@@Brooks__EU ... der Schlüssel ist die Geschwindigkeitsreduktion im Intermediäre Approach Segment; wenns am FAF losgeht muß man in Lugano den Approach Speed schon etabliert haben