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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2023
- Comparing the deaths of Arthur Morgan & John Marston in the red dead redemption games. Arthur Morgan's death and John Marstons death are some of the saddest moments in video game history.
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I think John's death is more tragic while Arthur's death was more emotional
I think pizza tastes better but sausages taste the best
Well what i meant was that arthur's death isn't as sad cause he made a sacrifice and did good in the end by helping people. His passing was more peaceful but very emotional with the music and beautiful visuals. But John's death is more tragic and sad cause he was gunned down after thinking he was gonna have a happy life and everything he fought for was for nothing.
I would say the fact that John dies makes Arthur's death worse as you see the actions that lead the Pinkertons to John and his family.
Revenge is a fools game... the need to put an end to Micah lead the pinkertons to John and his family and put John back into the life Arthur tried to save him and his family from.
John’s death made me put down the controller and go take a slow walk outside, looking at my reflection mirrored in a bundle of puddles and remembering our times riding the plains together the summer of 2010, whilst Arthur’s death froze me within a state of emotion and disbelief far too overwhelming to even utter a small sob. Not until reaching the final credits and realizing our riding days are just about over. An 8 year odyssey of anticipation from every trailer released to every screenshot analyzed, to every surprise death and Easter egg discovered, to every moment we laughed to every moment we cried, culminated to this very moment that I can now look back and say, this chapter of my life is over. The Marston saga completed and the age of outlaws, come to an end. I’ll never forget the stories of these two men and how they literally affected my life as a grown man now, from the sense of morals to the integrity of each character slowly integrating itself into my adolescent mind and birthing a man that values his pride and his family’s safety, no matter the cost. Arthur Morgan and John Marston, two imaginary characters from a video game somehow managing to influence an underage mind of confusion, uncertainty, and purpose in life to a matured father and family man now responsible for the lives of those he holds dearest in his life.
Nah John was a rat
I have a different take.
Arthur always knew he would live and die by the gun. John thought he could escape his past scot free.
The true tragedy of Johns death comes from the fact that Arthur told John to either be an outlaw or raise a family. Dont do both. John didnt listen.
While I agree about the Arthur part John thought he wouldn't be able to escape his past in both rdr games he says his famous line "People don't forget, nothing gets forgiven" he just start believing he could escape his past after he got reunited with this family but his peace was ended really quickly with the army's ambush...
hmm not quite.
John went straight, he went completely straight. He worked for the government, made his ranch and stayed out of trouble. His death was sad because he was made a victim to the corruption of Ross. He thought he escaped his past, but his future was finished.
@@hedgehog11953 it Micah’s death that really p i s s e d off the Pinkertons
@@davidfraher1292 yeah I guess that makes sense, the Pinkertons has lost their puppet. Now that you mentioned it, I would have loved to see it from his perspective. Perhaps he was being used too just like John?
John had no choice tho
John's death was probably the saddest, considering he was healthy and could have lived for many years, but he had to make the ultimate sacrifice to protect the two things that he cared about the most: his wife and son. He died like a hero and achieved his redemption.
Arthur's story was a journey to right his wrongs and choose which kind of man he wanted to die as. The journey was more emotional than the actual death.
You see Arthur’s death coming from a mile away
@@Vloakanio yeah... because the game lets you know about it long beforehand... John's death, however, was just unexpected, not something you could see coming, especially since you'd think he made it out.
i was about to disagree with you, but you couldn't have explained it better, in the end arthurs death is quite satisfying if you got the good ending and i felt quite fulfilled with the story not being angry but sad such a good man had to pass away.
The fact Arthur also had no family makes his death less traffic in a way. John lost uncle (who ironically really seemed like johns older lazy brother) and had to leave the fates of his wife and son to chance.
@@RedVelvetBlackleatherVan Der Linde Gang don’t count?
Ill say playing it chronologically, it adds depth knowing the story of rdr2 and arthurs sacrifice makes johns death a little bit more painful to see. Unexpected and got me inna few tears actually
To me it made John's death even more inevitable
@@theoutsiderjess4869 makes you wonder how jack will end up either suffering the same fate as his father or to actually be what arthur sacrificed everything for, to have a proper life.
@estebanvasquez7161 what wonder? There’s literally nothing to wonder, after John dies you play as Jack and Jack is just as bad as John was at 20 years old. He becomes a lone wolf version to f what Arthur and John used to be.
@@Barrythebarnabas Except Arthur and John had a reason to be a gunslinger until they died. Now that Jack avenged his father there's no point in him being a gunslinger. The wonder is whether he would continue going down a dark path or if he would live a relatively normal life now that he's done what he wanted to do
I didn't know about John's death until after I played RDR2, and I'd have it no other way. I just wish I would have been more careful to avoid spoilers (for both games as every death spare Sean's was spoiled for me pre RD2) so I'd have a blind playthrough of the original, but it's not easy when you are playing the second game, and it's been years after the original was released.
I think John’s is sadder because it doesn’t really amount to much unfortunately. His wife goes on to lead a short depressed life after before dying. Jack went on to become the very thing John did not want him to. He was just gunned down before he could make peace fully. Arthur did save a lot of people and made peace with himself (at least in an honorable ending) Both deaths were very sad and I think Johns is more tragic at heart but Arthur’s definitely got a bigger reaction out of me.
But at the same time, Jack canonically ends up turning away from that life and goes on to live an extremely long life. He became a famous writer like he always wanted to and died in his 90's. That means he lived to see both world wars, the 70s 80s and the 90s. You can even see some of his books as easter eggs in one of the GTA's, which also proves that the universe are connected and he was alive for some of the earlier GTA's like San Andreas 🤣
@@shlaimvugnduffxx5147 no none of this is canonical bro unless you mean your headcannon
@@shlaimvugnduffxx5147Easter eggs aren’t canon
I believe Arthur brought a more heartfelt reaction because you got to see who he is to the people he cared about, you got to see true loyalty where 'as John you only see who he has to be in the moment, the only time you get to see John's character completely disconnected from his mission is with the Macfarlane ranch.
@@olmenoIt's canon nerd
I played rdr1 back in 2013 and John's death hit me hard , Arthur's death did get me silent and sad but Johns death got a tear out of me because I grew up with him and he went looking out for Javier Bill and Dutch to have a good life just to get killed
Arthurs father figure left him to die and the Dr literally told him to rest and had he left the gang or tried not to help get members out he would have likely had longer or to have far less pain in his last moments
Not to mention the VA for Dutch literally bawled crying after leaving Arthur
John's death is sad in a way that everything John did and Arthur's sacrifice were wasted, but Arthur's death on its own, in my opinion, was much more impactful to me
It wasn’t fully wasted, John still got to live 12 more relatively peaceful and happy years with his family, it’s just that going after and killing Micah is what got the Bureau of Investigations attention which ultimately lead to his death
@@shadow-squid4872 Ig that's true, what makes this more sad is the Jack's outcome
Its not wasted, everything was for jack not John, if John and Abigail didn't have jack in rdr2 there would be no redemption for John. In the end jack kills Ross and has his revenge which objectively is a happy ending. An ending that he would've never gotten without Arthurs sacrifice.
@@umpxfajmzann It’s not really. Instead of becoming a lawyer or a writer like Arthur, John and Abigail wanted, Jack became just like his father and went out of his way to find and kill Ross solely for revenge which does avenge John, but at the cost of most likely Jack being in the eyes of the law given how the law is bound to connect the dots about the young gunslinger who asked around until he found and killed the former agent that killed the former gunslinger that had a son that perfectly matches his age.
@@umpxfajmzann What I said was that Arthur's sacrifice was mainly for John's family to always stay safe, but after American Venom that didn't happen, and John and Abigail AND Arthur didn't want Jack to be an outlaw, which did happen, the sacrifice wasn't fully wasted, but kinda was as well
No music with only John's ragged breathing and coughing hit harder. "That's fucked up" was on loop in my brain all the way through the credits.
John had the saddest death. Despite being called dumb he’s the one who called out Dutch and his philosophy when he fed Angelo to the Gaters, who wanted no causality’s at the train robbery and was a man who sympathized with the Mexican revolution and the exploitation of their freedom. He died knowing they wouldn’t just leave him be and wanting jack and Abigail to live free! He went out taking a dozen bullets a one man army RIP John.
Arthur till shot down a fuckton of Pinkertons, sacrificed himself to that John and his family may live and still neat the shit outta Micah. Arthur died thinking he wss giving John a second chance, and he was wrong. His death is the saddest
@jasper7714
For real. I know it’s a game but considering in game John being grazed put him out of action for 2 weeks plus colter chapter makes me think Arthur lived plenty considering he was in dozens of pointless shoot offs. Bro ended hundreds of bloodlines and they give us that corny “you’re a good man Arthur Morgan” not gonna say I think he’s purely evil but don’t pretend he’s Jesus put into a bad situation I play to vent stress and anger Arthur on the other hand is making widows and orphans left and right for a measly 20 dollars
@jasper7714 Not really both didn't deserved what they got. The man who realises what he did till now is wrong and tries to better himself and help the suffering people around him is the best man. How does Arthur deserved what he got? If you look at it that way, John did plenty wrong things himself so how does Arthur deserved what he got and John didn't?
Another way around, John died with a family of himself, a loving wife and son. Arthur died knowing there was no one who loved him till his end and no family of himself, saw his wife and only son murderised in front of him. I'd say Arthur lived much more tragic life than John so Arthur's death was saddest imo RIP Arthur and John.
@@yasininn76 You're forgetting something.
You're accounting for 2/4 of the endings.
John is way sadder because he actually thought he could live happy after every sacrifice...
I would say Arthur’s because he expressed to Mary that when he got enough money, he would go with her. But he never showed, so she sent him their ring. His whole ark was helping people, even the gang before he would inevitably die. His own family (the gang) turned on him over one man, and then he watched grimshaw die.
He sacrificed his life for John, and even gave John his ring, so he could give it to Abigail, but Arthur’s sacrifice would prove to be meaningless because John stupidly went and killed Micah, (led Ross to him) which is exactly why arthur keep telling john to “get out, and don’t look back”.
The main takeaway from this, is johns death was sad because john thought he could be happy with his family.
Arthur’s death was sad because he thought if he helped john, he could live free and happy with his family, and would “get out, and not look back”. But john ruined it. At least john got 12 years with his family. Arthur had nothing, and his sacrifice meant “nothing”
@@ewitsisley8224 Except Arthur died thinking John would listen and live a happy life. He even tells this to Dutch and Micah in his last breaths saying "I already won." Even if it wasn't true he died thinking he changed their lives (He also helped other people as well like Charlette, the Downes family etc.) Arthur also knew he was going to die since the start of chapter 6. John died uncertain. He was betrayed when he least expected it. He thought he would be able to live the rest of hid life with his family. It was fast and it was painful both mentally and physically.
@@Sebastian62608 I know. That’s literally the reason I said Arthur’s death was sadder. Because it meant nothing. I meant it from more of an outside view. I wasn’t viewing from only the character perspective.
@@ewitsisley8224 I see
I think Johns is sadder just because John and his family had genuine hope for a future after they reunited, whereas Arthur while shaken always knew how it would end for him after he got TB
Arthur had a somewhat chance at a nice life, with his son and his ex girlfriend. They then died, and arthur went back to the only thing he had, the gang. Then, that one woman who's name I don't remember came back and asked Arthur to just stop doing all the bad stuff he was doing, and leave with her, and Arthur still sticked to the gang, thinking he had a chance to make it out. Arthur was fooled more than once into thinking he could have a happy ending, and only after the TB diagnosis he finally saw his life for the tragedy it was.
@@yasininn76 Arthur's life is sadder but John's death is sadder.
John’s death made me put down the controller and go take a slow walk outside, looking at my reflection mirrored in a bundle of puddles and remembering our times riding the plains together the summer of 2010, whilst Arthur’s death froze me within a state of emotion and disbelief far too overwhelming to even utter a small sob. Not until reaching the final credits and realizing our riding days are just about over. An 8 year odyssey of anticipation from every trailer released to every screenshot analyzed, to every surprise death and Easter egg discovered, to every moment we laughed to every moment we cried, culminated to this very moment that I can now look back and say, this chapter of my life is over. The Marston saga completed and the age of outlaws, come to an end. I’ll never forget the stories of these two men and how they literally affected my life as a grown man now, from the sense of morals to the integrity of each character slowly integrating itself into my adolescent mind and birthing a man that values his pride and his family’s safety, no matter the cost. Arthur Morgan and John Marston, two imaginary characters from a video game somehow managing to influence an underage mind of confusion, uncertainty, and purpose in life to a matured father and family man now responsible for the lives of those he holds dearest in his life.
fr, John Marston's story made me realize what I really want in life
that's a nice poem you got there
@@blyt7 So you wanna be a rancher lol?
Grow up lmao
@@clamcrewcarclub6017 Hes legit a grown man(child) 😭😭😭
In my opinion Arthur and John’s deaths are equally as emotional and tragic as each other but for different reasons
There's no bridge Aurther wouldn't burn for others but John will burn any bridge for his family, burned even his own bridge for his family in the end, however Aurther sacrifice makes johns death all the more tragic but ultimately Aurther got what he wanted, John got a life with his family A LOT of time with his family more than Aurther could ever imagine for himself, and then society rips that dream into shreds with johns death.
I love how Arthur's death is literally red dead. Turburculosus was often referred to as the red death back then so I just thought it was kind of ironic.
And the redemption part meaning that he changed his ways from being an evil man to a dude who you can respect
I think John's death was sadder because of how meaningless it was, he did everything the Pinkertons asked him to and yet they gunned him down all the same. Arthur on the other hand died for something, he was able to let John and his family escape before succumbing.
Arthur's death is way more emotional but John's is just a tragedy.
John hands down, With Arthur you knew he was going to die, With John it came out of nowhere and was more of a shock.
John wanted to escape his old life and start over with his family, but got dragged into hunting down his past and in the end got stabbed in the back for it. And seeing him and his story of growth in RDR2 just makes it all the more tragic. RDR2 came out in 2010 so a lot of us grew up with John and was invested in his plight.
I'm a 32 year old man and have only ever cried at 2 games in the many years I have been playing them, Johns death in RDR 1 and the "Leave" ending in Silent hill 2 where Mary reads her letter.
I find it funny that Ross got the U.S military down to some random ranch to kill one guy, I wonder how confused the soldiers were when some fancy Pinkerton guy was like heyyy military wanna come with me to go kill a singular gunslinger…
I'd say Arthur's is sadder as we see a dying man try to make amends for all the deeds he's committed through out his life but John's is more impactful since it came almost out of nowhere and hit us like a ton of bricks.
Nice Arthur impacted people more but Arthur knew he was going to die and wanted to die to save john and the others by the west he got what he wanted while John Wanted to raise his son with a father but Ross betrayed him after John does everything he says to him brings bill,Javier and Dutch works for the law but ross plan was to kill every gang member so id say Johns sadder since he didnt get what he wanted
I think John's death was sadder because it was so sudden and unexpected. He was gunned down as soon as he came out the barn. I was expecting John to fight his way out of their ranch but that wasn't the case.
Arthur's death, on the other hand, is expected. He was bound to die with or without Micah. His death is still sad and got me emotional, but John's death is still sadder for me.
Arthur still you can see he knows he can’t help everyone and all the decisions he made would have consequences and it did he got tuberculosis what made Arthur’s death sadder was he probably would’ve been able to escape to safety if Dutch helped but Dutch betrayed him think of it Dutch could have helped Arthur survive longer but he didn’t betrayal by his father figure
Johns was honestly the saddest. The man was loving his family life, loved his kid and wife, left the life he did before in the dust, would’ve lived another 10-20 years (he was 38 so he wouldn’t have lived to see 70, 60 even because it was rare back then.).
Then he was shot down brutally, surprisingly brutally. He was the last person to survive the Wild West days, he was the Wild West incarnate.
Johns death is more tragic to me, especially with the additional context of RDR2, he had spent agood few years trying to atone and get away from his life in the gang, although Arthurs was sad and hurt a lot too, he only had a few months tops before his end, John was still young and healthy, he had years to live out the rest of his life, and he was determined to make a good go of it and live on the right path.
arthur dieed at age of 36 and john at age of 38
I think both was sad but John was more unexpected because he finally achieved what he wanted was his family but then later to have his life taken to tie up loose ends.
Arthur was more expected and emotional because of the situations that previously happened before his death, Sean's death all the way down to Lenny, him finding out him having TB and Dutch, his literal father figure betraying 20 years of a relationship for a man he knew for 3 months.
John took 21 shots and was still alive bleeding to death while Arthur died peacefully by himself watching the sun rise but also not so peacefully.
in low honor he got a bullet in the head but john death was more brutal
@@Outlaw1856-8 yeah I know that but still tho John.
arthurs death wasnt really sad tho
I would say Arthur's death is more tragic. In his final moments, he watches Dutch, his father figure and oldest friend, who's spent the last few months turning away from him, abandon him. He dies thinking that John, Abigail and Jack made it out, and that something good came from all this pain and death.
John proceeds to ignore the lessons he should have learned for the next 8 years, draws attention to himself thinking he's honoring Arthur's memory by going after Micah, and it eventually ends up destroying his life, killing him needlessly and sending Jack down the exact path that John would have wanted for him the least.
Arthur's death is made worse, by the fact that John's death was as tragic as it was.
Wow lmao this is what an Arthur fan boy looks like. Looking for any reason to blame John for arthurs mistakes.
@@jessebailey5962 Did I say Arthur was without fault in his life, or did I point out what the story explicitly tells and shows us?
Because the game straight up tells you that the Marstons had to keep moving because John kept getting into fights and killing people, Abigail leaves him after 5 instances of John getting into physical alterations at Geddes Ranch, John's journal entries indicate difficulty moving out of the outlaw mindset, he keeps giving his real name out(the post office in Strawberry and the bank in Blackwater, and the ending of the epilogue explicitly shows the feds/Pinkertons on Mt. Hagen, and then watching over the Marstons, because John created enough of a trail back to him.
That trail that John created back to him is what allows the government to come for him 4 years later, and force him into the events of Red Dead 1, it kills John in the end, and Jack ends up being a gunslinger and a killer like his father, which is the explicit opposite of what John said he wanted for Jack.
I like John, but he made some stupid fucking decisions in 2's epilogue. If you're gonna call me an Arthur fanboy, actually argue against what I said. Prove me wrong.
@@kal-eldritch cool now admit that that Arthur was a complete hypocrite that was dependent on dutch so much that he literally left his kid and wife for months at a time until they were killed and he just went back to dutch. Say Arthur was mad at the beginning because John actually left the gang for a year because he saw the writing on the wall. But Arthur cried about it until he saw the same thing at the end of the game. John actually went straight but Sadie Adler kept popping up asking favors and throwing arthurs name around to guilt John
@@jessebailey5962wtf 💀
1 - Elisa wasn't Arthur's wife, he just got her pregnant. But sure, Arthur putting so much stock into Dutch and the outlaw life, that he was a mostly absent father was definitely bad. Wouldn't argue otherwise.
2 - He didn't "go back to Dutch" when he found out Elisa and Isaac were killed, he was still with the gang, travelling 99% of the time. He just reprioritized the gang as being the only thing he had left to live for.
3 - We have no idea why John left the gang, you saying "it's because he saw the writing on the wall" is just an attempt to make John sound smarter than he was at the beginning of the game. In Chapter 2, he's still buying into Dutch's story, and he says as much to Kieran on the way to Six Point Cabin, and to Arthur after they steal the sheep. The only thing that you could actually infer is that he left the gang due to conflicting feelings about being a father to Jack, based on what's said and shown, and even then, I wouldn't make a conclusive statement like you tried to.
4 - The game pretty much spells out for you that Arthur was mad at John, because he was projecting his own feelings about several things: his own feelings of being a failed father, disloyalty to the gang, his own complex feelings about his own father. I don't know where you got that John was this super perceptive genius that saw the end of the outlaw life coming, when Arthur is the one that has to give him words of wisdom about that in Chapter 2. Arthur repeatedly says throughout the game that the world doesn't want them anymore, he says it so many times to so many people, I don't know why you think that he only realizes it at the end of the game.
5 - John was half-heartedly trying to go straight for 8 years. Saying he wanted to is one thing, his actions and his inner thoughts that he wrote in the journal are completely different. You literally play as him continuing to get into fights for hours in the epilogue, before you even get to free roam, and he only ramps up from there. You literally watch him leave to go get vengeance on Micah as Abigail begs him not to go.
My argument isn't even that John didn't want to do right by his family in the epilogue, he just doesn't fully commit to it until after Micah is dead, and by that point, he's essentially put himself in the crosshairs of the feds and locked himself into the eventual events of RDR1.
7 - Sadie offered John a chance to make some legal money when she found out an old friend was alive. She floated an idea about Micah to John. Remember that in the conversation when she brings him up, when they're going from Valentine to Strawberry, John explicitly states that he said to her after Arthur's death that he would go after Micah if they found him, and he's still on board with getting revenge. She didn't guilt him, he was never against it.
I obviously agree that she holds some fault for coming to John when she had a solid lead on Micah. One could argue that she's partially responsible for John's ultimate fate, and I wouldn't argue otherwise. But John was a grown man, capable of making his own decisions, and if he was really dedicated in that moment to his family, and to going straight, he could have said no. Did he? No. When Charles asks him if Arthur(who consistently said that revenge is for fools) would have cared about getting vengeance on Micah, did John turn back? No.
For all your talk about calling me an Arthur fanboy, which I won't even deny, I do like him more than John(and John is also a very interesting character, in both games), you've completely made up things about 2's story, made other characters out to be ignorant in order to make John sound smarter, and simultaneously made John sound like a moron incapable of making his own choices.
I would strongly suggest you replay the game and actually pay attention to what they say and show you, instead of going "John Marston best boy, so smart, he did nothing wrong, everyone else is stupid and made him do stupid things, not him, he had no choice."
John's death is more shocking because it was a betrayal, but arthur's death (high honor) feels earned because he stands against micah, yet undeserved, making it emotional beat micah
Even Both of there Deadeye Ability is different Arthur Sounds like a Clock as in saying his time is up and Johns is a Heartbeat as in love for his family so the Dead eye ability that Arthur has was Foreshadowing his Death before he even caught TB.
Everyone thinks john failed jack but forget that after the end when you kill edgar ross jack becomes a author telling the story in book form and lives to be 97 years old
None of that is confirmed
This is false
@@jackbluehq6653I mean, the GTAV easter egg kinda speaks for its self.
@@weirdodudeman hmmm no because its never been confirmed gta 5 is in the same universe as rdr
The Easter egg in question was just a book with the initials J M on it
That was probably just an Easter egg for John Marston for all we know, sure its note worthy but it isn't definite proof and I don't understand why everyone acts like it's canonical facts that the book was by Jack Marston. Rockstar has never confirmed it, all it is is a small insignificant book with the initials of either John or Jack Marston
It shouldn't be counted as full proof or confirmation.
@@weirdodudeman rdr and gta universe both stand alone universes they dont connect at all its just a easter egg that a lot of companies do with games they make, jacks story is up to speculation until we get a game dedicated to jacks redemption after killing ross for all we know jack is running down the path of revenge eliminating every gang and pinkerton
For me Arthur’s death has the most impact like I knew he was gonna die but when I experienced it for myself I was heartbroken. I reminisced my times in chapter 2 where I felt like I had a lot to do and a lot ahead of me in the game and chapter 5 where I knew Arthur’s time was soon coming to a end.
Infact I still think about it even though I played through Arthur’s death 4 weeks ago
I have to believe arthurs was sadder. That man spent all his life thinking he was a bad man, and was gonna die a bad man. But in his death he was redeemed because he sought to help people over greed. The saddest part is... is that he probably still believed he was a bad man till he died
I mean he was a pretty bad person most of his life
Arthur didn't really wanna be seen as a good guy when he died infact I think he seemed at peace with himself. He knew he'd been a fool his entire life and decided to make afew amendments before his death. But at no point does he think he's a better man cause of helping afew people or that he wants to be seen as a good man for it. He lived his life the way he felt was right and he realised his huge mistake too late and at the very end he came to terms with it kinda. High honour Arthur learnt to accept his misdeeds while low honour Arthur just grew to hate himself more for them
That's how I see it anyway
True
@@jackbluehq6653Arthur just lived the outlaw life on the other hand I think John was someone who was followed in wrong footsteps
@@jackbluehq6653ye Arthur was called a wild delinquent to at a young age John was just a orphanage which means he wasn't wild he just has a sad life
@Drexzzz4 how the hell does John being an orphane mean he wasn't as brutal?
You also do realise that Arthur wax also an orphane before he fell into the gang right?
His mother died and he watched his father be hanged publicly when he was young.
John's mother died during childbirth and his father died in a bar fight.
Their very similar interms of, both men were orphanes when they fell into the gang, so your logic here makes no sence.
Also what do you mean Arthur "just" lived the outlaw life while John followed in the wrong footsteps? They BOTH were experienced outlaws who lived most their life killing and robbing.
John himself has on record robbed 48 banks, said by Agent Ross in rdr1.
Also also, Arthur has never been called a "wild delinquent" from my knowledge, especially not "at a young age"
Both men were hardend outlaws who robbed and killed for years together, there is no difference when it comes to that.
Rdr1 John is just far more cold blooded then Arthur in rdr2. He took part in human sex trafficking, walked right through a massacre where tons of people were being executed without batting an eye and is described by the strange man as someone who "kills so incredibly easily"
Rdr1 John only cared about his family, anyone else he really didn't care about.
His morality was only with the few he loved, the rest he was far more colder too.
i thought john’s was sadder because he had a family that was depending on him. he really did try to atone for his sins. him sacrificing himself to free his family from his own sins was his redemption
Man I love these videos showing up on my recommended page before completing rdr2
i think the cinematography and stroy telling of arthurs death hits you in the feels more, i have to say john's death is sadder. because all of arthurs work for john was simply in vain, and the life he wanted for jack is thrown away, and jack ois forced to becomesan outlaw that unfortunately follows in johns footsteps, IE. the whole reason john wanted to fix everything, and it was ripped away from him, when he thought he could be safe.
Rdr2 and some of the conversations Arthur had towards the end genuinely changed how I viewed certain things and how I act at certain times
Arthur’s death had been approaching for some time. And instead of wasting away he took a last stand so John could escape and be with his family.
John’s death came as betrayal and his past catching up to him. He was torn from his family which quickly diminished from a farm of four to an orphaned adolescent. Arthur’s death ushered in something new. John’s death left Jack all alone.
I've always been more interested and saddened by John's story. John was a bad man trying to do the right thing and had to resist inherent temptations of his character. Arthur was a good man who was doomed due to the life he chose and ultimately tried to change at the end. John's cold and brutal makes him a much more conflicted protagonist imo.
I think johns death is like losing someone unexpectedly while arthur is if u knew if u have ever had a family member with cancer u know the feeling
I would say both in different ways. Arthur had no choice. As soon as he got sick he knew he was going to die soon. So it’s emotional.
For John, he had a family who he just got reacquainted with. He was only home with them for a few days before being killed by the same people who promised that his past had been cleared.
So John was bushwhacked at his own home while enjoying his family time, and Arthur was aware he was dying. Both sad.
While Arthur did die of TB, he looked at the sunrise, while he took his last breath, slowly fading into the afterlife. His death is sad, but he at least died peacefully. Whether or not you die with low or high honor. Arthur deserved a better life than what he got.
Johns death is more painful, because he’s shot to death by people that promised him that he’d live if he did their dirty work. Only to get betrayed, by being shot multiple times with it being slow and painful.
Overall, Johns death is more painful than Arthur’s. R.I.P 😢🙏
John Marston's death is even sadder when you consider everything about his life and story:
1/ John has been an outlaw almost his entire life, he got into so much trouble along with his outlaw mates, and survived death so many times.
2/ John throughout his life always chased freedom and it got snatched away from him several times (twice in Red Dead 1 - at the beginning and at the end)
3/ he left the life he had as an outlaw and tried to go straight, he did for some time but once again taken away.
4/ John despite ditching his dangerous life and has nothing to do with his former brothers in arms anymore, he took the blame of the entire gang.
5/ John Marston was killed not just for his sins, but for the sins of his entire gang.
And when you look at him going through all the trouble of his story (RDR1) it hits when you remember him and the other gang members of his story from RDR2.
John Marston is the one who truly suffered the most..
Yeah, John and Arthur are way better than any other protagonists, hands down. They are tragic.
@@amirhomayoonfarmusic for real bro!
In my opinion John’s death was the most upsetting to me. Arthur before his death was able to unbind his chains from Dutch’s grips and was able to help not only John, but the wampiti Tribe, The woman in the cabin, (I forgot her name), J.John withers, Sadie, Arthur Callaghan’s family, the people in the town infected from the poisoned water supply, and hector. Even if helping John was in vain Arthur helped out more people than him and did his best to do right to the downs family. Arthur did so much knowing it was his end and I truly believed he got his redemption. John on the other hand did the bidding of the government until they threw his and his families life away by killing John and Uncle and starting Jack off on a life of crime (possibly). Arthur’s death was more bitter sweet while John’s was straight up tragic.
Arthur’s is still fresh to me, but I have to go with John’s being more tragic because it means Arthur’s sacrifice only bought him 11 years and John’s family shows up seconds after not even getting to say goodbye. Then Abigail only lives for 3 more years before poor Jack is alone. It’s up to interpretation what happens after Jack kills Ross. Though Ross’s body would’ve been very difficult to find when it washes away with the current all the way into the ocean by the time anyone noticed that he was missing.
John's. He was out. He was out. He did everything right. He got his family back, he got Abigail to fall in love with him again, he started being a loving father to Jack. The Ranch was fully built.
It was so, so tragic. I was pissed.
I saw Arthur's death coming a million miles away, and while it's sad as fuck. It was obvious from like Chapter 2 that Micah was a gonna turn everyone against him.
But Johns was tragic. Super tragic.
This channel finna blow up in 2024
We all knew Arthur was going to die. But with John it was really sudden, and that was rare for the times. Main characters rarely died, let alone that brutally on screen. A lot of mainstream media and games used this trope after RDR1
Johns death was more shockingly sad and tragic. But those feelings are quickly replaced with anger and a desire for vengeance. Which you and Jack eventually get.
Arthur meanwhile is more emotionally sad and almost kind of cathartic. You and the characters both know that he's not gonna make it. And that leaves you feeling depressed. But watching his journey culminate and end the way that it does leaves you both atleast somewhat fulfilled.
The thumbnail is really sad but it's also very beautiful
Johns death is sadder bc Arthur's was a long time coming. Arthur and the player had long enough to come to terms with his death and when it happened it truly seemed like he was at peace and could finally rest (good honor ending, at least).
John was betrayed and had a life ahead of him and family to raise. Not only that but it was completely unexpected and destroyed Johns legacy and family forever, effectively sealing the gangs fate as one of tragedy where no one got out.
aint no way i just got spoiled by the title as im in the middle of rdr2
small but correction: ross was was a part of the pinkertons until somewhere between 1899 and 1907 as he is canonically working with the bureau of investigation up until inbetween 1911-1914
Hmm, nice work!
Arthur's death at least had meaning. John's death was unnecessary and cruel
John’s death was very shocking and tragic, you were promised the whole game that if you took out Dutch that you would make it out alive with your family so this makes it even more heartbreaking. The story plays out as the man who is hardened by his past and also (murdered) by it, but it forces him to come to terms with what he has to do to protect his family. It’s more of a sad ending than a sad journey.
Arthur’s death on the other hand was the culmination of a real proper emotional journey of self discovery and betrayal by the only person (Dutch) he looked up to and was loyal to his whole life. He watched the whole gang that he loved and always tried to protect fall apart which gives more emotional hits. I agree with people who say we all knew his death would come eventually so it was anticipated but I think this makes it even more emotional. Seeing the kidness he radiates during his final days made us not want to lose this man even though we knew we would. Arthur has the same philosophical view on life and outlaws as John, only kill those who threaten whom you’re protecting - for love. But Arthur is much more vulnerable than John and much more complex and nuanced, that’s why his death even more emotional - he is a very relatable character even if you see his death from a mile.
Overall, I think both deaths are equally tragic but Arthur’s is more beautiful and will always remain ingrained in my head.
I think John’s death is more sad as unlike Arthur’s death in which we had time to come accept the fact that he was going to die no matter what we did, John’s death was much more sudden and unexpected
correction, in RDR1 Ross wasn’t in the Pinkerton detective agency. He was in a government agency similar to the FBI
I'd say John's is sadder because the game gave you false hope that things would turn out okay only to just yank it away at the end.
Johns death does play into alot of rdr1s dialogue though like john saying they dont forget nothing gets forgotten or dutch saying they'll find a new monster
Arthur's was the saddest because during his dying moments, his father figure betrayed him, he slowly watched his family fall aprt and he died a painful and slow depressing death.
One little correction i couldnt help but point out was that in RDR1 Edgar Ross and his goons werent pinkertons anymore but the more modern FBI
John had a chance at a new life with his family. Arthur had no out, even before the TB. Arthur lived and died by the gun. That's what made John's sadder, whereas with Arthur it was sad to see the toughest of the gang die.
I played RDR1 as a kid and it's the first and only piece of media that has made me cry. RDR2 was pretty emotional tbf.
John and uncle literally had me thinking he would have a nice ranch and family but no tragedy struck
Based on tears shed in rdr1 as a teenager and tears shed in rdr 2 as a grown man. Arthurs death 100% hit me harder. I went through a mild depression after john dying im experiencing it again now after rdr 2 (completed it yesterday)
for some reason i cried when arthur died and when john died i felt like i had to throw up ☠️ i guess seeing john getting turned into swiss cheese wasnt on my checklist, i just hate the noises he makes when he dies, you can just hear the blood fill his lungs and just imagining that pain makes me feel nauseous
High honor death is def cannon for Arthur. In his last moments all the choices that he makes is better towards people and he gives his things or does random good deeds to random people like the people who owed debt to the gang, along with kicking out Strauss for giving money to people who truly where in a hard state to live in, also with Arthur deciding to give hope to the people with the sick husband who died after Arthur killed him over the debt back in chapter 2. Arthur had a change of heart in the end and was given the neutral ending of dying on the mountain alone to see the sunrise just like he wanted.
"Bad people don't get good endings"
Also I find it interesting that both Arthur and John die gasping for breathe. Kind of like they are truly connect like brothers.
I think Arthur’s death is more sad because all those things you have in rdr2 are all ended in rdr1 never to be seen again your horse, Arthur’s hat, all those people that are dead never to be mentioned ever again
The va for dutch literally cried after seeing the last moments of Arthur
I would say John’s death is way more tragic due to the fact he got out of the life, but due to his actions in the epilogue he gets roped right back in and does everything the government tells him to do and yet he still pays the price for it. Though Arthur’s death, I feel is way more emotional because he not only “saves” John from the life for a time but he tries and tries to help Dutch, even if he knows that plan will fall through.
What’s even sadder is that Jack became an outlaw or at least a temporary one but still. Someone in the world now hates Jack for killing Ross. Revenge is a fools game. The Gang did not want Jack to be a killer. Jack was the future and now he is living in the past. It was John’s fault that Jack became this. He didn’t tell Jack a thing about Outlaws really.
I love it when video titles have spoilers. in the title. cool.
Both legends are gone!! That’s the saddest part!!! 😢
I think John’s death is more sad bc when I first played this years ago it hit me hard bc I wasn’t expecting him to go like that
John's by far was the most tragic having a family. Arthur saw his demise coming and was ready. But watching him pass on was still very sad.
Arthur was so sad seeing someone so healthy get so sick it’s just so heartbreaking i expected him to pass or disappear but that was way sadder than i thought
I think we all could assume Arthur was gonna die but with John it really snuck up on you, thats my take anyway
Johns death was hinted at just as much throughout the game. Hell those last few missions did nothing but set it up fairly obviously. So i wasn't shocked on him dying, more so how brutal it was.
what i find most most tragic is the fact that the entirety of redemption 1 could have been entirely avoided, had john listened to abigail when she said "don't go chasing micah up that mountain"
during the credits roll, you see the very same pinkerton that organized the raid on his ranch investigating micah's hideout. if sadie hadn't talked john into riding up that mountain, it's possible that they'd never find any of them
Too me, arthurs death will always be more emotionally tragic because i generally cry everytime ngl, its easy to see with him slowly drifting away but it still hits me deep and has more sadness to it to me, with john ive not rlly played rdr1 yet, his death is physically tragic to me though as he has a lot more losses and people still alive who cared about him such as jack and abigail.
You’re an Arthur fanboy, we all knew Arthur was going to die at some point difference is John’s is more tragic considering everything he had
@@Meepie_Playz just because of what i said does not rlly make me a *fangirl* lol
Just a small nitpick - Ross is "Bureau of Investigations" early version of the FBI in Rdr1, not Pinkerton anymore
Johns was worse because he never wanted to be in the life but he had to be he always knew what he was until one day he wasnt he was the only one who worked so hard to change where as arthur only wanted to leave the gang cause it benefited him both are sad cause arthur became a good person and helped people but he knew after helping abigal that it was done for him he had a choice more than john
People keep saying john had the more sad death, but Arthur's just was so much more emotional. Despite Johns being way more tragic, i think also since Arthur is a more developed character, in my opinion one of the best characters in fiction period, it was a more sad death. Overall subjective, but i still think its much sadder the fact it was slow and emotional, and the journey leading up to it
John’s death is certainly the most chocking , brutal and unnessasary ..only time I cried in a game…. Arthur’s was sad but he was just a sick man we all knew was going to die.
I remember the first time I played red dead redemption when I was 13 years old back in 2013 and when john died I literally cried so hard and was shook up and so shocked that I had to put the controller down and process his death 😔🤦🏾♂️
5:15 a lot of people played the first game. It's one of the best selling games and one of the 100 games of the history. It sold less than Rdr2, but it still pured. Both games are masterpieces.
John’s death was probably more tragic due to the family thing but Arthur’s death made me cry.
Johns death for me was way worse for me
I think that John's death was more tragic because it was so unexpected while Arthur's death was slow and let us come to terms with it happening
Cap
It’s honestly kinda tough.
On one hand you have John who tried everything to get rid of his past only for it to basically backstab him at the end. He went through hell and was the one to finally put down Dutch the man that raised him.
Then you have Arthur who got a disease that slowly killed him and as that was happening he had to see his entire family that he grew up with basically die right in front of him. The man he grew up with that was a father figure slowly began replacing him with a person he felt was betraying the gang. But even with all that he basically found himself, he began doing good and went out the way he wanted to (at least the way he wanted to with TB) doing good by trying to tell Marston to leave this life behind and at least helping Dutch in his decision to think twice about Micah. (At least in the good ending that is)
In the end John had hopes of finally getting out of the outlaw life only for it to be dashed while Arthur came to terms with his lifestyle and tried to make amends while he still could
their both two very different characters with different deaths and I feel like they shouldn't be compared.
yeah, why compare? is not like compare the death's are gonna make them less painful...
For me, I think Authur's death is the saddest. First, he literally lost his family to a faking $10 debt. Second, he watched the man who raised him and taught him everything about the world, literally a father figure, slowly lose his sense of reality and shift himself into a completely different person that Authur found it hard to accept. Last, he watched his gang with emotional bonds with all of them, watching some of their deaths by Dutch greedy intentions and paranoids like schizophrenia, which led the whole gang into a complete disaster.
However, do not forget, they are outlaws, robbed, and killed by savagery, of course they are going to die savagery.
Authur did not die peacefully, he died with eyes wide open, he wanted to make a new life with Mary, he wanted to see Jack grow, he wanted to kill Micah by himself, he wanted the Dutch to realize what he had done. Authur death is not tragic, but it was heavy with grief, regret, shame, depression, and vengeance. Those are terrible things to be buried with until your last breath.
Arthur and Johns deaths are the only ones that made me cry
Along with eagle flies
Arthur’s made me cry, John’s made me angry
Both are equally sad to me, but Arthur's death hit me harder.
Sure, I could talk about how Arthur's death had more time to build up, but what I find truly sad was that his death was ultimately for nothing. His main goal was to give John a chance at a better life and told him to not be two things at once, but John didn't listen. Instead he still went and killed members of the Laramie gang, he still got into that shootout in Saint Denis with Charles, he still went bounty hunting with Saide, and most of all, he still went to kill Micah and his gang.
And with everyone he shot, the more noise he made, the more likely he was to be heard and found, and heard he was. Both Arthur and John died for nothing, even when Jack avenged John, now Jack is hunted too and the cycle repeats even tho he was also warned by John not to become like him. If you go back for the money as Arthur, it doesn't matter because Micah takes it back anyway and leave Arthur to die. You help John escape, it doesn't matter because John would have escaped anyway with or without Arthur's help.
Arthur died for nothing, John still couldn't live a normal life, and Arthur would be forgotten to history. But that's just my opinion tho.
Looking at John’s death, it was probably similar to Mac’s. Remember the Pinkerton said Mac was shot up before he got to him.
Haven't finished the video yet but I would say John because he was supposed to be "the one that got away" where as Arthur's story was more of redemption, a warriors death
Well said my friend, we’ll said 😢.
remembering arthur death made me cry a little
John’s death was the most tragic moment in any game period. Arthur’s life was tragic, the end was sad but it didn’t have the same effect as john doing everything in his last moments to save his family and face certain death face to face made me as a ten year old kid shed a tear.
When Arthur died i was proud of him as he had saved john and died protecting his friends and righting his wrongs he did the best he could in a bad situation fighting for what he cared about and dying on his terms as he could have easily ran away with mary or some other gang members but he chose to either die going for the money and finishing his feud with micha and dutch or died protecting john either way he chooses where to make his last stand
Everytime i see john die i feel sad he had fought so hard to escape his outlaw past and build a life for himself and his family, going so far as to build a ranch for them to live in together with his own two hands not to mention the mental battle he had just to accept becoming part of the system and by the end of the game he had finally done it, his family was safe and secure everything was set up so they could all be happy living a normal life but then the pinkertons showed up and ruined it
Arthurs story is about a man living his way with the time he has left
Johns story is about a man who fought hard to get better and escape his past and form a bright future for himself and succeed only to be killed after everything he had done to atone for his crimes
Arthurs is sadder in my opinion, i think its just because of the build up before hand and his interactions with Dutch. Johns happens so abruptly, your happily spending time with your family and then death. But there is no preparation for it. Arthur is trying his best but you can see him dying, and honestly i didnt cry at either of their deaths but i did shed a tear when Arthur met with the nun again near the end.
These are 2 of my favorite games of all time .. I never cared more about a game character more than John and Arthur, their deaths hurt.
I personally think John’s was sadder. While Arthur was fully expecting to die and he was willing to die for John, John had a family and he believed that he would be able to spend the rest of his life with. He was manipulated and lied to for a few medals. While Arthur died feeling good about himself and feeling that he successfully helped John make it. He failed tho. Unfortunately