This was a really cool video to watch, Dale! Thank you for sharing all of your research. I have worked with both Horween and Shinki Shell Cordovan extensively and I have definitely noticed some major differences between them. For one- Shinki’s shell is much dryer than Horween’s which was very unexpected. I suspect this is because Horween adds a boat load of greases and oils to their shell cordovan, resulting in both a more supple feel in the hand, rounder temper and earthier color pallet. Horween also aniline dyes their shells, allowing for more variation and color depth (as multiple layers are added to achieve the desired look). Shinki drum dyes their shells, resulting in shells that are struck-through with color. Shinki also seems to use more “pristine” shells for their non-black colors. These shells have less grain variation, which I suspect is also how they are able to get brighter colors to really shine (that, and the fact that they use fewer greases and oils). Anyways, I am just rambling but I hope this contributes to your shell research! I have some scrap pieces of both Shinki and Horween shells- if you’d like to feel them in their natural state (as in, not in boot form haha) I can absolutely send you some! ☺️
thanks so much Stephanie!!!! this means a lot coming from you as you have TONS of experience with these leathers!!! if you've got some scraps I would absolutely love them 😀
Tough topic and great video as always. I am very biased so I will stay out of the comparison conversation. The only thing I can say is that experiencing shell cordovan (and other leathers) can only be fully appreciated in person
Additionally-having work with Badalassi Minerva, I have noticed that it ages very quickly! It is nourished with a lot of greases and oils since it is a “vachetta” style leather. This makes it pretty water and scratch resistant but the trade off is that is starts off very earthy and darkens pretty quickly and dramatically. I love that stuff and use it whenever I can for personal projects.
Got some Maryam shell Yanko boots that had been painted with thick acrylic coating. They looked terrible. After stripping the paint, however, I noticed the shell was smooth and pliable, took aniline dye well and rolled nicely. Overall good quality shell if you can get it without the glossy, impervious paint. With the paint it doesn't take conditioner, creases like corrected grain leather and looks like plastic.
I know this is an old thread, but I just stumbled across it because I'm thinking about buying some shell Yanko boots myself. I'm alarmed about the paint after seeing your comment and I really can't find alot of info on the web about them. The boots are at a great price point, so maybe too good to be true? I'd appreciate any insight if you do see this comment. Thank you!
Dale, thank you for making this video. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into it. Very interesting indeed. Please keep the videos and info coming. Thanks your bud spicytakito.
Just want to point out why shinki is more vibrant. Its based on the base tannage, if you look at horween crust vs other crust shells it's darker so it's impossible to get vibrant colors. Also shinki is pigment dyed and not aniline. So when the dye falls off you will start to see the crust or base tannage. Shinki shell was used for Japanese school kid backpacks, not a high demand material back in the day. Also you I've seen people compare thickness alot for shell, but if you watch Phil's videos, at least for horween shell it ranged from 2oz to 5oz, and it's more uniform on other shell tannarary, not sure if it's cutting or selection that product the uniformness
I read that Horween don’t use pigments but only stains for their shells. I would guess that Shinki and Roccado are using pigments to get those vibrant colors and since pigments are not soluble, contrary to stains, that would explain the difference in translucency.
I really want to try Ricado.. Maryam, and Shinki.. I've seen this video so many times hah, i love it. I have some Horween Shell Bowery boots on the way., next up id like a marble Ricado monkey boot from Jack Rabbits,, would be awesome
been buying up alot of boots lately.., mostly PNWs.., but damn.., I like Cordovan.. I like Vibergs.. would like a pair of Aldens.. I just rarely wear anything that would call for such nice dress boots lol.., but screw it, I'll probably get them anyway.. thanks for the work you do making this content
Cordovan was first perfected in Cordoba, Spain, hence the name. Now, most hides have what is called in Spanish la concha, the shell, usually referring to a callus from where the the animal lays on the ground, very evedient on cowhides on lower side of the brisket and towards the shanks on the hinds. Now in the biology of the horse, they produce that layer on the rump since horse bite each other's rumps when fighting, evolutionary process, the tougher the hide the less likely of getting a subcutenous infection=death. The tanning process is the same, where the difference is in the finish. In the ranching cultures influence by Spain, the horsehide or mule hide are use extensively in leather works, from the liners of boots, it wicks sweat and is resilient to rotting, to chaps and aprons, always suede side up. Mulehide is used as a tougher and lighter to bulhide of the same thickness in boots. All cordavan can be polished to higher mirror like appearence, where any other skin/hide can not. Cordovan is "scuff proof" since there is no "flor," dermis layer/grain to tear. That is also why cordovan does not crease rather it forms ripples.
Awesome Video… very informative… thanks for the high research… you can totally sport the violet… your boot “expert Credit” is off the charts… you can wear pink leather boots and we would still respect you!
Do you like Shinki Hikaku? Some boots 👢 are made with them. Some Horween is shiny and some are matte. Some Horween feels like leather and some feel like plastic. The same is true with Shinki. How often should I get a shoe shine?
Horween or bust. Shinki comes the closest to the characteristics that horween produces but it’s not quite the same. A bit thinner and a bit less substance in the hand
I saw a video of a guy that Allen Edmonds made some custom Strands out of ultra violet shell. His handle on style forum is Strand King - he has like 80 pair of Strands. Someone at AE saw his collection and they made him a 1 of 1 pair and named it The Strand King. They look pretty cool, I didn't get feminine vibes...bold, but not fem. Anyway, thought I'd share.
I tried to see what they looked like… I think that would be awesome to make a pair of boots from. Couldn’t find any pictures of them anywhere. Do you have a direct link to pictures? Thanks!
Hey Dale, which tannery would be best for a black boot? Im trying to find one that isnt super shiny and is a more soft sheen/most similar to calf. I was thinking Horween originally unless theres another youd recommend for black shells?
Leaves turn brown because they lose their chlorophyll in the Fall. Chlorophyll is used by plants for photosynthesis. That doesn't apply to skin or leather. Also, they change from their reds, orange and yellows (if applicable) to brown eventually because they are decaying and being eaten by bacteria. The leaves are being broken down into their carbon compounds . If your leather reaches that stage it is not going to be usable and will literally crumble away so, again, I don't think your leaf analogy holds up. It is possible that the oils and dyes in the leather are being broken down by age and also UV light and that could be the reason that they return to a brown colour but the underlying skin/ leather itself should not be breaking down in the same way that those brown leaves are.
What I’m saying is they use actual tree bark to tan these more naturally tanned leathers. I wasn’t talking about the leather itself degrading, rather the natural pigments derived from tree bark tannins breaking down and oxidizing
@@DalesLeatherworks Ah, ok, I apologise for misunderstanding you. I can see where you're coming from. Though the purpose of the tanning agents are to preserve the leather (stating the obvious) it could leave residue in the leather afterwards that break down as the leather ages. Or it might be dyes or finishing agents used after tanning that have natural ingredients that break down.
How does the 79 last fit compared to other shoe companies? I’m a 9.5-10 in sneakers and a 9 in most boots. I’m afraid to press order on the 9s because I don’t want them to show up small. Should I just try the 9.5s to be safe or do you think they run pretty similar to other companies? Thank you very much! Great collection and videos!
Go to a men's shoe store,not a footlocker, usually anywhere they sell men;s dress shoes. get your foot measured with a brannock. Once you get your true size, then make the order. Sneakers sizes are never true.
I have a bit of an off topic question about Truman. I have noticed that they use leathers from Seidel tannery. Does anybody have experience with boots made from Seidel leather? How does it compare to Horween?
@@DalesLeatherworks Hi Dale, oh I meant the boots that were that magenta looking shell cordovan. They were the only one boot shown on screen at the 13:15 mark. Thanks.
I would appreciate if anyone interested in Tahura boots checks out mine I listed on eBay. I just got them after a 6 month wait and they were too small for me. They are size 9 approximately and are the Benjamina 2.0 in Chloe Olive Horserump. New in box and never worn. I’m having mine remade currently and the size was my only issue. They are excellent quality! Thank you for another great educational video aerosurferlv!!!
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
This was a really cool video to watch, Dale! Thank you for sharing all of your research. I have worked with both Horween and Shinki Shell Cordovan extensively and I have definitely noticed some major differences between them.
For one- Shinki’s shell is much dryer than Horween’s which was very unexpected. I suspect this is because Horween adds a boat load of greases and oils to their shell cordovan, resulting in both a more supple feel in the hand, rounder temper and earthier color pallet.
Horween also aniline dyes their shells, allowing for more variation and color depth (as multiple layers are added to achieve the desired look). Shinki drum dyes their shells, resulting in shells that are struck-through with color.
Shinki also seems to use more “pristine” shells for their non-black colors. These shells have less grain variation, which I suspect is also how they are able to get brighter colors to really shine (that, and the fact that they use fewer greases and oils).
Anyways, I am just rambling but I hope this contributes to your shell research! I have some scrap pieces of both Shinki and Horween shells- if you’d like to feel them in their natural state (as in, not in boot form haha) I can absolutely send you some! ☺️
thanks so much Stephanie!!!! this means a lot coming from you as you have TONS of experience with these leathers!!! if you've got some scraps I would absolutely love them 😀
I like Shinki Hikaku's color selection
Tough topic and great video as always. I am very biased so I will stay out of the comparison conversation. The only thing I can say is that experiencing shell cordovan (and other leathers) can only be fully appreciated in person
Thanks Phil!!!! You’re right, and there is definitely something very unique to Horween Shell in particular
I'll say it: Horween shell is the best!
Yep I will agree too. Horween is the best. Maryam is probably a close second.
Additionally-having work with Badalassi Minerva, I have noticed that it ages very quickly! It is nourished with a lot of greases and oils since it is a “vachetta” style leather. This makes it pretty water and scratch resistant but the trade off is that is starts off very earthy and darkens pretty quickly and dramatically. I love that stuff and use it whenever I can for personal projects.
Phenomenal video as usual.
Haven't yet owned shell, but glad to find each and every one beautiful.
Got some Maryam shell Yanko boots that had been painted with thick acrylic coating. They looked terrible. After stripping the paint, however, I noticed the shell was smooth and pliable, took aniline dye well and rolled nicely. Overall good quality shell if you can get it without the glossy, impervious paint. With the paint it doesn't take conditioner, creases like corrected grain leather and looks like plastic.
I know this is an old thread, but I just stumbled across it because I'm thinking about buying some shell Yanko boots myself. I'm alarmed about the paint after seeing your comment and I really can't find alot of info on the web about them. The boots are at a great price point, so maybe too good to be true? I'd appreciate any insight if you do see this comment. Thank you!
Dale, I am looking to purchase a pair of Shell Cordovan boots. I knew I'd find a video from you that would be just the education I need. Thank you!
So glad this helped my man 💪🙏
Dale, thank you for making this video. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into it. Very interesting indeed. Please keep the videos and info coming. Thanks your bud spicytakito.
This was particularly informative and well done. The examples from your collection were excellent.
Glad you enjoyed it!
There was a leather bomber jacket company near Seattle that used Shinki Hikaku. They swore by it
Just want to point out why shinki is more vibrant. Its based on the base tannage, if you look at horween crust vs other crust shells it's darker so it's impossible to get vibrant colors. Also shinki is pigment dyed and not aniline. So when the dye falls off you will start to see the crust or base tannage. Shinki shell was used for Japanese school kid backpacks, not a high demand material back in the day.
Also you I've seen people compare thickness alot for shell, but if you watch Phil's videos, at least for horween shell it ranged from 2oz to 5oz, and it's more uniform on other shell tannarary, not sure if it's cutting or selection that product the uniformness
I read that Horween don’t use pigments but only stains for their shells. I would guess that Shinki and Roccado are using pigments to get those vibrant colors and since pigments are not soluble, contrary to stains, that would explain the difference in translucency.
I really want to try Ricado.. Maryam, and Shinki..
I've seen this video so many times hah, i love it. I have some Horween Shell Bowery boots on the way.,
next up id like a marble Ricado monkey boot from Jack Rabbits,, would be awesome
been buying up alot of boots lately.., mostly PNWs.., but damn.., I like Cordovan.. I like Vibergs.. would like a pair of Aldens.. I just rarely wear anything that would call for such nice dress boots lol.., but screw it, I'll probably get them anyway.. thanks for the work you do making this content
Cordovan was first perfected in Cordoba, Spain, hence the name. Now, most hides have what is called in Spanish la concha, the shell, usually referring to a callus from where the the animal lays on the ground, very evedient on cowhides on lower side of the brisket and towards the shanks on the hinds. Now in the biology of the horse, they produce that layer on the rump since horse bite each other's rumps when fighting, evolutionary process, the tougher the hide the less likely of getting a subcutenous infection=death. The tanning process is the same, where the difference is in the finish. In the ranching cultures influence by Spain, the horsehide or mule hide are use extensively in leather works, from the liners of boots, it wicks sweat and is resilient to rotting, to chaps and aprons, always suede side up. Mulehide is used as a tougher and lighter to bulhide of the same thickness in boots. All cordavan can be polished to higher mirror like appearence, where any other skin/hide can not. Cordovan is "scuff proof" since there is no "flor," dermis layer/grain to tear. That is also why cordovan does not crease rather it forms ripples.
Awesome Video… very informative… thanks for the high research… you can totally sport the violet… your boot “expert Credit” is off the charts… you can wear pink leather boots and we would still respect you!
Hahahaha thanks so much for the confidence boost!!! Ok I’ll reconsider the UV stuff 😅😂
Great review as always - super helpful
Do you like Shinki Hikaku? Some boots 👢 are made with them. Some Horween is shiny and some are matte. Some Horween feels like leather and some feel like plastic. The same is true with Shinki. How often should I get a shoe shine?
I enjoy your videos your love for the hobby comes through nice job sir!
Glad you enjoy it my man!!!
Love the Brule reference at the end
Horween or bust. Shinki comes the closest to the characteristics that horween produces but it’s not quite the same. A bit thinner and a bit less substance in the hand
Is there a difference in stiffness and how fast the boots beak in?
I saw a video of a guy that Allen Edmonds made some custom Strands out of ultra violet shell. His handle on style forum is Strand King - he has like 80 pair of Strands. Someone at AE saw his collection and they made him a 1 of 1 pair and named it The Strand King. They look pretty cool, I didn't get feminine vibes...bold, but not fem. Anyway, thought I'd share.
I tried to see what they looked like… I think that would be awesome to make a pair of boots from. Couldn’t find any pictures of them anywhere. Do you have a direct link to pictures? Thanks!
@@MD-ev3hm Go to TH-cam and type in "The Strand King". Should pop right up.
hey Dale! which shell was the easiest to bend? im looking to make my own pair of shoes but would prefer them to not be very stuff
Good question! Actually the crust shell was easiest bending wise
the natural pigments AND the iron mordant.
Hey Dale, which tannery would be best for a black boot? Im trying to find one that isnt super shiny and is a more soft sheen/most similar to calf. I was thinking Horween originally unless theres another youd recommend for black shells?
Horween black CXL is your best bet for a first stop
Leaves turn brown because they lose their chlorophyll in the Fall. Chlorophyll is used by plants for photosynthesis.
That doesn't apply to skin or leather.
Also, they change from their reds, orange and yellows (if applicable) to brown eventually because they are decaying and being eaten by bacteria. The leaves are being broken down into their carbon compounds .
If your leather reaches that stage it is not going to be usable and will literally crumble away so, again, I don't think your leaf analogy holds up.
It is possible that the oils and dyes in the leather are being broken down by age and also UV light and that could be the reason that they return to a brown colour but the underlying skin/ leather itself should not be breaking down in the same way that those brown leaves are.
What I’m saying is they use actual tree bark to tan these more naturally tanned leathers. I wasn’t talking about the leather itself degrading, rather the natural pigments derived from tree bark tannins breaking down and oxidizing
@@DalesLeatherworks Ah, ok, I apologise for misunderstanding you.
I can see where you're coming from. Though the purpose of the tanning agents are to preserve the leather (stating the obvious) it could leave residue in the leather afterwards that break down as the leather ages.
Or it might be dyes or finishing agents used after tanning that have natural ingredients that break down.
How does the 79 last fit compared to other shoe companies? I’m a 9.5-10 in sneakers and a 9 in most boots. I’m afraid to press order on the 9s because I don’t want them to show up small. Should I just try the 9.5s to be safe or do you think they run pretty similar to other companies? Thank you very much! Great collection and videos!
I think you should try the 9’s if that’s the size that works for you in most boots like redwing or Parkhurst
Go to a men's shoe store,not a footlocker, usually anywhere they sell men;s dress shoes. get your foot measured with a brannock. Once you get your true size, then make the order. Sneakers sizes are never true.
@@DalesLeatherworks thank you for the reply! I appreciate it!
What about the shell cordovan quality of the Corium company from Italy?
I’ve not had any from them yet!
I have a bit of an off topic question about Truman. I have noticed that they use leathers from Seidel tannery. Does anybody have experience with boots made from Seidel leather? How does it compare to Horween?
very different and very high quality at the same time
Hi Dale, could you tell me who made the boots at minute 13:15? Thanks!
The left 2 are Truman, the one on the right is iron boots
@@DalesLeatherworks Hi Dale, oh I meant the boots that were that magenta looking shell cordovan. They were the only one boot shown on screen at the 13:15 mark. Thanks.
Do you prefer structured or unstructured toe boxes on your boots?
I prefer the structured but then again I like everything haha
Wow exelent video presentation! Thanks
Glad you liked it!
Damn! Thanks for this!
Horween shell cordovan is still the best.
Cool comparison but ideally you'd wanna compare the exact same colors across all these tanneries for more meaningful results etc.
I would appreciate if anyone interested in Tahura boots checks out mine I listed on eBay. I just got them after a 6 month wait and they were too small for me. They are size 9 approximately and are the Benjamina 2.0 in Chloe Olive Horserump. New in box and never worn. I’m having mine remade currently and the size was my only issue. They are excellent quality! Thank you for another great educational video aerosurferlv!!!