Marathon Training Blocks: Volume Schedule, Peaking, & Pacing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Marathon training blocks, a fascinating topic to dive into on this daily running vlog. Marathon training, and more specifically, peaking for a marathon at the right time, is an art form. Peaking at the exact right moment for a marathon is my passion going into the spring 2020 marathon training block. I do not introduce interval training until later in my marathon training blocks because I do not want to peak for races too early. I will be announcing my marathon racing plans later this week, stay tuned!
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My strategy for my first marathon was to completely overtrain myself showing up at the start line sick and injured.
QOD: I'm am currently training for my second marathon (Boston). I ran my first marathon after 2 years of no running. Followed the Hansons marathon method 16 week plan and ran 2:55 and I've had friends use the plan for the first time and PR by 10-15 minutes. This plan is different then Seths because it has you do 5k type speed at the beginning before longer intervals to help with running economy. Different methods work for different people. Good luck to everyone in their training!!
I think your training is very different from most of us because of two reasons. First of all, you are racing more often and secondly, you don't do your training at sea level. Anyone who is running marathons twice a year, have to structure the training differently. I have developed my training philosophy based on Canova, Daniels and some other guys and I believe that the period before the training blog is even more important than the training blog itself because if you ran a race every six months, you should not let your fitness level drop too much between the race and start of the training blog. So I would like to do the basis before the training blog starts. It means at least 8 weeks running averaging about 80 mpw. At that point the emphasis is on slow running but I do some intervals at different paces. Needed recovery is very quick because intervals are shorter than in the marathon training blog and recovery jogs longer. Even temporuns are done in intervals. For example I don't run Daniels' 20 minutes tempo runs at this point but for example 2 times 10 minutes. I also like to run some 800 meter reps but not very many. I like to have the African mentality in those workouts that I keep them fast but don't try to run very many kilometers. Once the fitness level improves, I add volume. That is different from some European philosophy where you keep the amount reps the same but increase the pace when your fitness improves.
I also need to notice that I have reached the needed fitness level before I can enter the marathon training blog so that I know that I can do the workouts. I started my current marathon training blog yesterday and it is structured in a Canova way. Compared to the period before the training blog, I have started to increase paces of some runs but still keep some recovery runs very slow. I am having a polarized approach in the fundamental phase and put emphasis on both speed and volume. This phase is now either 7 or 8 weeks. I am not exactly sure because I don't know which marathon I will run. Then after fundamental phase when I have the ingredients that I need for my specific training, I am going to start the specific phase that lasts 10 weeks. Then the focus is on building the capability to run the marathon distance without bonking. I know that I would be able to run 25 or 30K at marathon pace 8 weeks before the race but it's not enough. I need to be able to run the whole marathon and therefore in this period I have less workouts (only 1 plus the LR per week) but they are harder. There is quite a lot running around the goal race pace then. Anything can happen in terms of weather, health or issues like that but in general I don't like to play lottery. I want to be prepared at the starting line. In my opinion the following comment from Canova describes very well what marathon is all about: "I am against the idea that marathon is something strange and after 30 kilometers there is the wall. Is something strange when there is not good training. But when you prepare exactly what you are able to do, you know. And only if you do some mistake, become problem for you but if you don’t do any mistake, you know very well what will happen ’til the end. Nothing strange."
So 2-3 months base which includes gradual build-up of volume and pace, then 6-8 weeks fundamental period that isn't very different from the end of the base phase in the beginning but more structured and finally a marathon specific period of 10 weeks.
Totally agree. A 14 week plan coming off a layoff would never work for me. I'd get injured again and/or not be very fit by race day. I feel like I need several months of base building before even thinking about a race.
QD: I’m fortunate that I belong to a running club in NYC (dashing whippets) where we train for key marathons using a 16 week plan. We do 3 quality workouts- Tuesday tempo runs, Thursday speed workouts, and a Saturday long run. The other days are easy recovery runs or rest / cross training. All of these runs grow a bit each week (10% rule) I’m doing the advanced Boston plan, which aligns pretty close to what you outlined, though I peak at only about 70 miles a week and only do a 2 week taper. Right now I’m nearing 50 miles per week. We had 50 people out running tonight’s tempo run, which really makes it a fun, social experience as well. I’ve done 4 marathons in the last 2 years with this group, with each faster race faster than the one before (last 3 BQ’s). So this has been a good training plan for me.
How long is your tempo run?
@@DarkPa1adin For our Tuesday night tempos, we're currently running about 4-5 miles. This will keep increasing, and probably max out at around 8 miles a month ahead of the marathon. We also add to this 2 mile warm-ups and cool downs, so total mileage (now at about 7-8) will cap out at about 12-13.
Appreciate this coaching! QD: I just finished my first marathon in Houston this weekend and have right at 24 months of running, most of which was low volume (10-15 mi/wk) as I lost ~50 lbs (80lbs over 2.5 years now) during the first 12 months of running. At age 50 and still building core musculoskeletal strength, I maxed at 53 miles with no more than 10% increase over 13 weeks (though this did follow on the heels of my first half marathon training block so started at 33 mi/wk). I did not do "fast" intervals as my body isn't ready, but did add about 10% 10k and HM paces the last 4 weeks and one Half Marathon (1:53:28) at week 6 which helped me determine marathon goal pace. Working towards/during peak I did 48 miles, 34 miles, 50 miles, 37, 53 miles to make sure I had really adapted to highest volumes I had ever run. I did a 3 week taper and was able to hit my goal of sub-4 (3:58:35) and am feeling good overall two days later (quads sore, but no "pain" points!). I never hit a wall or even significant struggles (thanks to all those who cheer us on, Houstonians showed up big time!!) thanks to so much knowledge/experiences I've gained and implemented from Seth, kofuzi, and TRE!
Congratulations!
That´s great! you have done it the right way with patience and being smart. Now that you have set your first marathon, sure you can continue improving. Nice job!
70 miles a week is great for those with at least 5 years of experience. I’ve been running for nearly 12 years and as a national class masters runner, 70 miles is my high end before introducing doubles
I'm on my second year or serious running and 75 miles was easily my peak and don't want to go any higher again.
Just did my first marathon this past Sunday...the rock n roll marathon here in Arizona finished it in 4:23:53....I just want to thank you man so much...the fact that you were still so motivated to make videos and to continue to help us even though you’ve been injured these past couple of weeks truly I think motivated me even more than your actual running videos...so again thank you I hope you continue inspiring people and I look forward to running many more marathons
Congratulations!
Congrats!!!
Thank you Seth for sharing your training plan !
QOD : My marathon training block for Amsterdam 2020 (target time 3h38) will be a total of 12 weeks (4 runs a week), starting at around 20 miles on Week 1 and going up to around 45 miles on Weeks 8/9/10, then tapering. As I don't have time to increase my mileage and work on my aerobic fitness, I need some speedwork every week to get in better shape. With limited mileage, I can't get better if I only run slower than or at my marathon pace.
QOTD:
I Run 2 Marathons a year, both with 20-week blocks.
First 3-4 weeks are pretty much just easy/Low HR stuff, but increasing milage by 10-15 percent.
From week 4 I’ll add slightly more tempo work, and start w/shorter intervals.
Every 4th Week is a “Down Week” where I’ll cut the milage down 30-40 percent from the previous week.
My max-week for Hamburg Marathon will be 110KM.
I also think a 3 week taper is perfect.
After the race, I’ll take atleast 2 weeks off to reset the body.
Great video btw!
20 weeks? My goodness, I'd lose interest about 8 weeks out! Good on your for being able to keep your eyes on the prize that long.
seoul588 Yeah, I know what you mean.. Sometimes -normally during the winter period- the motivation is a bit of a struggle.. But I just think that when you use a 20 week block, it gives you the right amount of time to incorparate 3-4 weeks of base building, 4 down weeks, 3 taper weeks.
So in total a 20 week Block gives you about 10 weeks of intensive, high milage Marathon Training..
@@Peter_RC Makes sense. I'm still training 4, 5 months out. I just don't consider it part of that block. It's purely psychological as I would probably give up and/or lose my mind. Whatever gets you to the starting line!
seoul588 Exactly - whatever works!
What is your Goal Race?
@@Peter_RC Was The Seoul Marathon in March. Going to do two halves in Korea (March and April) and A Race is a fall marathon in Korea. Although I live in Hong Kong.
For my last marathon, I believe that I didn't do a proper base build-up or aerobic build-up. It was my second marathon and I was running all my runs around 60 to 90 % in terms of effort level. I believe that if I had slowed down, I would have been in a better shape for the race. Lastly, I wanna emphasize high volume in marathon training rather than workouts or intervals. I'm planning on heart rate training for now and introduce intervals and faster workouts a month before my race. This method might take longer but I believe it would last longer for future races.
I jumped up to 70 miles a week this year after about 30 miles a week starting last fall. Took me about 15 hrs a week, but I feel like my body has adapted after the second week and I can start pushing the pace. I just keep in mind that I don't want to have pain or injury, and it's working so far.
70 miles a week of training volume seems so ambitious for a non elite runner. I would like to think I could handle that much running as someone who has done two marathons already but I’m not sure if I can realistically push it past 50. Maybe that’s a barrier between me and real fitness I just haven’t poked at yet.
I think the 70+ miles per week is what is needed if the goal is to race marathon at full potential for the individual-meaning in a time the correlates with what 5K or 10K or half marathon predict (for example 2x half marathon time + about 4-5%). To comfortably finish a marathon at a steady pace, 40-50 miles per week with a few longer 18+ mile easy pace runs is sufficient).
@@johnmcguire8347 What you said seems to line up with my experience this last few months with 2nd HM and first Marathon last weekend. I peaked at 53 miles this block at 2 years of running and my 10k, HM predictors for a marathon were a little more ambitious than realistic for my current fitness, but I ran strong and steady the entire run. I was thrilled with sub-4 in my first marathon, but plan on going up to ~60 miles my next marathon training block. I'll be 51 at that point and think that may be my stopping point for volume as I want to stay healthy and do this for another 10-15 years, or longer if possible. I spent a short time next to an 80 year old moving quite briskly this weekend in the marathon and he was an inspiration to me!
I'm sitting with a bum foot averaging only ~15 miles a week :(. I am a triathlete so the mileage on the bike might have been part of the issue but 70 seems so like a dream now. I did still find this video very informative and helpful though.
Mitch Thelen oh no question, good content as always. I guess I just felt like I was underachieving 😂
Also I hope your foot feels better man!
This was really helpful - thank you. I am a new runner (started in August 2019) and I am doing my first Half Marathon next month (23rd Feb 2020) so this has been really helpful as I plan to do a marathon in 2021 if I am fit enough or 2022 if I am not. Thanks for your wisdom x
Mine is 16 weeks. I have intervals and a marathon pace workout once a week. I build from 37 miles to 66 miles with down weeks on week 6 and 10. I will have a local road championship 20-mile race as one of my long runs at the start of week 10. I am trying this plan with so much interval and pace work to build a good feel and confidence in race pace. In past marathons I have been intimidated by the pace and, while fit enough, backed off because of lack of pace work.
QD: agree with you that it depends on my base. Starting from the same point you are, coming off an injury and only ran 13 miles last week so pretty low for my first week of marathon training. Will increase my mileage by 10-15% per week over the next 14 weeks (18 week block with first four weeks really just base building), peaking at 45-50 miles/week for 2-3 weeks and doing a 3 week taper. I also take down weeks every 3-4 weeks. I definitely think the average runner should not be increasing by 10-15 miles every week, and I’d also say that 70 mpw is probably too much for the average runner. Most mid-pack runners that I know run 40-50 miles a week at peak for marathon training
Seth this VLOG will be a huge hit on TH-cam. Excellently done!! I’ve been Marathoning for 10 years and agree with everything. QD: I go with a 16 week block and cut back every 4th week. Never fell to injury during training.
I am about two years into running (in my mid-40s). The first 18 months were the adrenaline phase, with every training mile being run a bit like a race, and several marathons in the books. For most of 2020 my thoughts were: "why is this getting so hard? Is it just age and stress?" Finally I registered for a small Jan30-2021 marathon here in Utah. With 7 weeks to prepare, I went from 20 miles per week (medium pace) through November to 65 miles per week (easy pace) as we welcome in 2021. I'll peak this week at 70 and then taper. With such a short training block, nearly all my miles have to be easy, or else I'll get injured and/or overtrained. As a busy person, this seems like a great model to follow: short build, easy-but-high mileage, and feeling fit on race day. I won't race to my highest potential, but I think I'll be happy with the return on investment.
Very helpful Seth! Yesterday I started my marathon training block for my second marathon (April 18 - Martian Marathon). This will help me build my training schedule today with a goal to run sub 2:55 to qualify for Boston. Thank you for spreading the knowledge!
Excellent and thanks for watching
Qd: my marathon training starts from a base volume of 70km/week, 1 track session with longer tempos and one with shorter intervals. I basically add only a longrun on sunday (starting at 16km, end 34km) taper down from a max 100km in three weeks to 40km in the last week. Because of my experience in longer races i just ramp-up in two weeks from 70 to 100km. Not enough time in the week to add extra km in the marathon block. I know i can absorb more volume since i don't hit injuries during the training. Seth for you i would start off higher in volume so the ramp-up is less steep. But thats up to you
It’s been a nice relaxing week off after my DGR Half Marathon 2021. Time to start planning my training block for Imogene Pass Run! This video is the best way to kick off a training block.
Woa. I was so confused with the new background haha. Thought it was an official shoe store
QOD: I start from a solid base and then work up to peak mileage over the course of 10 weeks. I'll hang at peak mileage for 2-3 weeks and then taper for 2-3 weeks till race day.
Great video. I'm currently in the build up to my 4th marathon, (fingers crossed it goes ahead given everything!) so finding that I'm constantly evolving my plans. Your plan is something I feel I can incorporate this time round. Though I'll probably be nearer 50-60miles PEAK.
Thanks for the tips :)
thanks so much for watching it! glad it helped!
Given your injury history, whats the advantage to such high volume? Many running coaches state that after 50-60 miles/wk for marathon training your risk/reward ratio goes higher with increasing risk and higher than the reward. Would it not be better to lower the volume and work on keeping intensity high by adding speedwork drills, cross training, and weighlifting before you taper? My thoughts are high miles/week is more of a mental boost not physical.
I guess I fall into the aerobic capacity camp over speed / strength, especially for the marathon distance. The best way to increase aerobic capacity is aerobic activities, and since I love running, I choose that option.
I love peeking too. I just had to have a little look at this video.
I really appreciate you and your videos! Definitely the BEST in this category!!
I definitely second the the hold off for interval training. I started speed work the first week (6 weeks) ago and while not “tired” or unable to complete my runs each day, it does feel more challenging and I’m afraid I’ll be “race day ready” sooner than I should be.
This was really well explained. I loved the chart
Thanks for tuning in! Sometimes I wonder if I make any sense so I'm glad it hit home. Onward.
@@SethJamesDeMoor oh yes it did!! It makes complete sense.
Hi Seth. Thanks for your continuing gift to the running community. My questions/thoughts are: is it not recommended that you spend most of your last few weeks on race-specific runs? That is, in the latter part of the training block, you increase mileage to simulate fatigue, while you also reduce interval speed workouts.
I believe in keeping the pattern relatively the same. I still do easy runs easy, keep the pattern of quality sessions the same, the volume just goes up. 6 x200 reaches 12-16x200. 4x1 mile turn to 5 or 6 or 10x 1k. And some of my runs near the end turn to long runs including 10-15 miles of goal race pace or 105 minutes from runs with only 4 miles of goal pace.
Ultimately my point is my workouts don’t change in type but cycle through weeks at increasing volume of the workout. It keeps my body in the rhythm even through the taper period. I even keep an interval session the Wednesday before the race. 3x1 mile. Keep that turnover and get into race mode without over doing it. It is a good gage of your taper. The miles will feel so easy if you are fresh and it is a great confidence boost before race day.
thank you mr.demoor for another great tips for us beginner, i really appreciate...God bless you and your family..🏃💪🙏
Hey @Seth, new subscriber here and fairly new runner (started 3 years ago in my mid-40s). This is an excellent explanation of the art of peaking which fascinates me as I learn about my new hobby (obsession). Also found you on Strava so will follow you there.
Very informative Seth... Thanks a lot
Used to do 4 week blocks going up in volume and intensity for 3 weeks followed by 1 easy recovery week.
At peek training would do
Tue 4x3k,
Wed 25k
Sat 15k plus 5 in MT
Sun 30-35k
Very helpfull vlog. Well explained. Can't wait for the next vlog about training strategies.
Great video, explanation, and content Seth. Expanding on experience level, I suggest looking at yearly miles and calculate a baseline average weekly mileage. Increase from there. Experienced runners don't necessarily need to start from 0, but you accurately bring up injury history 👍
Why only hold your best training for a few weeks? I find better results from more consistency. If I train well for 4 weeks, I'll be able to train at faster paces the following month (similar volume), and for every month after until I either race or get sick or injured. As long as I am always running within my limits, I can keep improving. Maybe 6 months consistency and then there will be limited returns on the training investment. I think it depends on how often you want to race and how well you can recover from each one.
Seth! Awesome video. Very much in line with my reading on Jack Daniels Running Formula. Would love to hear a deep dive on your approach to pacing within the format presented today. When and where do you like to incorporate Repetition Pace, Threshold, and Marathon paces into your training block?
Production quality of your vlogs is always improving. Much appreciation for your efforts, Seth! I look forward to 7am everyday 🤣
Mizuno is back :)
This is great!!! Make a lot of sense. Thanks Seth!!!
Thank you for the tips... i'm doing my first marathon this in year in Octuber.
@Scott Sanford I'm from Portugal and i'm doing de Lisbon marathon in Octuber.
Studio looks great!!
I’m sorry...Shoe dio
My Boston 2020 training block is 14 weeks + 2 wk taper. Aiming for around 90-100k weekly. With 2 weeks of 120k peak.
Does this mean you are running Boston? The training block seems to end right around then. I’ll guess we’ll have to stay tooned for your race announcement.
Excellent vlog today my man!!
The most important aspect to learn thus... training is a personal individual art that you have to experiment with to find what works for you. Do not buy or download "training programs" from the internet or any other source.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge is very value for me,
Thanks Seth excellent video, that’s exactly the questions I’ve been want to know the answers to, hopefully I can apply that to my training, was this video done before your family got sick or week or so after? Good luck with the health & fitness, keep up the amazing inspiring work 👍🏼🏃🏼🏃🏼♂️✌️👏
When you say you're running 35 miles the last week of tapering is that 35 miles plus 26.2 on race day (61 total) or 35 miles total (26.2 on race day plus 9 prior)?
Excluding the race Matt. good question
Actung Ponzer
Your peak load is 120 MILES a week ? That is 200 KM ... Respect. I hope the runner’s knee agrees with your plan ;-)
I am still trying to digest when he recommends 70 miles a week, so 120 miles for me that's a Pro schedule or Ultra marathon training plan. Total Respect
@Seth great video! Thanks. I am starting to organize my preparation for Berlin (09/25) and would be great to have your views on how to break each week into the different workouts. Any suggestions?
Following Jack Daniels running formula 😎
yes...and no art in his book :)
Loved it, thanks man.
Thank you Seth!!
One question.. when do you stop your speed/interval training? When you start the 3 week taper? Or do you continue those with the lower miles?
I do less speed work the last two weeks of the taper. Lots of 300 or 400 repeats.
When you are doing the interval/speed work, do you think it’s like an 80% effort? 90-95%? Or all out. I think I got myself into trouble with the speed work by going too hard during the speed work and got injured. I’m going to lower my efforts just a touch and see how that goes. It’s really hard to not get tempted when I’m with a group!! It’s motivating to work hard and keep up with others.. feeling like you are pleasing your coach. But just like you need to “Run your own race” I need to “run my own training workout”!!😃
Neil McCallum check out Jack Daniel’s VDOT charts online. You can use your target race pace and the charts will give you guidance on appropriate pacing for interval workouts and repetition pacing. Been super helpful for me as well!
Seth, have you had muscle biopsy or genetic testing to see your mix of Ft to St? Steve Magness in The Science or Running recommends individualizing peaking, taper and when to add intervals (and what types) based upon is the runner FT or ST predominate or a mixed. Watching your planning it seems your mostly ST?!?
Very helpful, thanks
is there any difference for making training blocks for lower distances?
Yuan Sese for shorter distances you generally don’t need to build volume for as long. You can race a good 5k/10k on 30-40 miles per week.
I´ve seen you on TV here on TH-cam, I´m curios of why? You have maybe talked about this on any previous vlogs but worth asking again:)
Is running 21mile single long run affect for aerobic build up equal to 7 day 3 mile short runs?
My short answer would be ‘no’!
No, you get different physiological benefits after around 90 minutes of running.
First...the real one🏆
Of 95
@@kingjulianrgo287 🤣🤣🤣
I'm doing >20km a week now lol. No time to run. 1x intervals, 1x tempo, 1x idk run. Can't do LSD yet.
QOD:Haven't done a marathon yet, but with full time work and a son with extra needs, I just run as much as I can.
But to give me a guide (and only a guide), I love using www.to-getthere.com/schedule - it hooks into Strava & updates the plan as I go
Hi Seth, do you do any tune up races like a half marathon/10k as part of the training?
How does a 100-120 mile a week look like, from day to day? (Coming from someone strugling to get 60 Miles a week in a 5 day 7-19 workschedule)
Seth what do you recommend we do with our training with "extra time" before your training block is scheduled to start
Run 26 someone asked the same question the other day and Seth said to do form drills, build strength in knees, ankles, and legs overall before putting on volume for your training block
What shoes did you wear when the pain started to fade away?
Great vid Seth, so helpful...Q: in which effort should I run in the first weeks building the arobic base?
Maybe use MAF? 180-age=
I'm using it and the number is exact as my heart rate monitor.
180-31= 149 max heart rate for aerobic base. I keep mine around 135 to 145.
There are all kinds of formulas in literature. Stay within 59-74% VO2Max, or stay under 78% HRmax, or stay under 89% LTHR, or run at a 3 or 4 on the BORG-10 scale, or run at a "conversational" pace. If there's anyone who knows your easy effort, it's you.
@@Saeedandi Hey, thanks. So I know your age😉
@@phl0w666 👍😉
@@groupsimon6501 we have been compromised, Retreat I repeat retreat.
Good video. When will you be announcing your race? I’m pretty sure you are doing Hamburg
Hope so...Hamburg
Group Simon lines up with the 14 week block. And will put him in Europe to get there for London
Out of curiosity for Seth or anyone else that has experience running high mileage weeks (60 plus) do you run daily or take a day off at some point during the week.
Hi, i have 1 day without running at a 100km week, mostly the monday after the long run. As Seth also mentioned check how the body reacts. You might feel bit tired by the volume but no serious pains anywhere else. Your body + sport history is unique so dail in to your best. You can try new things which might workout or not, then adjust. Succes with your running!
Michiel Molevelt Hi, thanks. I was just wondering how everyone handles higher distance weeks. Currently I am around 40 miles/64 km per week and take two days off. I figured I’d have to add at least another day of running if I decide to add more distance.
Your chart looks like an M for marathon
Asterisk*
What is this PEA-KING that you keep speaking of.
Is this a Chinese food dish?
Jk lol.
Great vlog as always Seth.
When you add volume you should do it in 15% increments
Seventh ❤
Fourth 👍
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Third mofo's 🤘
You spend hundreds of Dollars on shoes...get some decent microphone and I'll listen to your content. Until then, it hurts my ears.