I have been in the Army for over 20 years (still serving). My take on this is there is always more that can be tasked for Soldiers to do in an FY. There is only so much time that Soldiers can actually complete tasks even if you work them 24/7/365. Too many requirements have been stacked onto Soldiers year after year without taking into consideration the previous requirements already in place. This has cut into Soldiers actually doing their jobs. This is not a sustainable model and the recruiting / retention numbers reflect this.
Right there with ya. I was in the field in 2011ish and our PSG decided he wanted to have everyone complete their Soldier tasks, when he turned in his report to the CSM, he was asked “but was it quality training”. CSM knew it was BS. I’ve been fortunate since then, to have some good CSMs that let me do things as best as I could. And sometimes that meant briefing U’s at a QTB. Too many puff up numbers, fix numbers in DTMS to be green, etc. and it all hides the problem(s) There’s still some good NCOs out there, but so many today were raised by NCOs who cut corners….we need more to stand for and do what is right. Appreciate ya brother.
This is going to be a long comment 1SG lol. To me, I’ve seen both sides! I’m a Cav Scout by trade so I know the struggle of having almost no personnel, and I’m currently serving in recruiting as we speak. Here is the BOTTOM LINE, at least IMHO: it all hinges on manpower. I agree with you 100%. It’s a snowball issue! Here’s the problem currently: Other businesses because of Covid upped their incentives because people weren’t going back to work. Now a lot of places including many minimum wage jobs will help pay for school (Walmart being one of the biggest issues for us recruiting). You have entry level jobs giving healthcare that covers EVEN MORE than what the Army covers (Starbucks will do IVF). What this means, and I hate to say it because I don’t like to see people struggling, is that people who used to need the Army for these things just don’t anymore. We need more people with needs only the Army can solve. The Army has done nothing to offset this. They won’t even give out respectable bonuses either for some reason but I firmly believe that would make no difference. While bonuses help close individuals to join, if there is no need to subject yourself to the Army then people just aren’t going to (with the SUPER minor exception of that 0.01% of enlistees who just want to serve). This is actually a really complex issue because there isn’t an obvious solution. The things the Army gave people that were too good to pass up….. well, it just isn’t special anymore when you can get those benefits anywhere. We need a strategy to bring in people to the Army that only we can offer. The thing is, Big Army refuses to believe this is an issue because they Army “offers travel, respect, adventure!” Like people join for reasons like that anymore… It’s said that the recruiter just didn’t sell them enough, but like I said, the benefits are no longer to the level they need to be to incentivize prospects. Because the Army hasn’t remedied the biggest issue which is that we can’t offer that much better than other employment, it has greatly affected our recruiting efforts. The missions remain the same though. This in turn pushes recruiters to scrape up pretty undesirable enlistees: people who score a 13 on the ASVAB getting waivers, some individuals getting huge packets of waivers for law…. I’m not saying they can’t turn a new leaf, but as a previous section leader, when you wait for months just to be able to have another driver to fill out your 4 vehicles with bare bones crews and you got some brand new dirt bag who refuses to listen or bless their heart has 0 teachability because they’re not blessed with understanding basic concepts….. it’s not good. Not only are we pushing terrible quality just to try and get our numbers up, but even with the best soldiers, if there is a detail requiring 3 soldiers, that shouldn’t be an issue. But when you only have 11 soldiers in your platoon when you should have triple, all of a sudden now that detail becomes a day where 1/4 of your soldiers or more aren’t trained and it does become an issue. Later down the road all of a sudden they start to show signs of gaps in knowledge you didn’t realize where a problem because they weren’t present for a good amount of instructions. With that rant over, I will say with all that aside we need to get back to the basics. I don’t even think we need to go to the field for weeks. Simple just make the work day a good day for training. I remember just driving the guys out after PT in the woods and just doing our job for the day and coming back. It doesn’t have to be elaborate! Honestly if every soldier of mine was a rock star at the basics, they could be oblivious to anything else and I’d say we’d be one of the most lethal scout squads out there. I think as an Army we’ve kind of lost our every day priorities where tasks that, I won’t call meaningless, but that don’t help produce better soldiers overwhelms the daily schedule. Yet there is an over emphasis on the actual field problems to the point that the individual soldier doesn’t get much value from it because it stops being about the training of each soldier as both an individual and part of the team and becomes all about “looking pretty for the right people”. Just gives soldiers a very shallow and incomplete understanding of what is supposed to be happening and why we are doing it, especially when incompetent leaders push their own thoughts and make you follow plans that don’t make sense when the plan you had and rehearsed for hours was much better and actually met the intent.
Military for decades struggled with getting people in. When there’s a war on, it’s easier. In between is hard. When I first enlisted in 95, wasn’t too much “support the troops” going on. Unfortunately I think the machine will find ways to outsource more jobs - we’ve done it in the past (cooks, gate guards, etc) in order to twist what’s needed. But your final paragraph is SPOT ON! I was the same way, get my guys out and get dirty. Whether it’s a PT session, convoy off post, Sergeants time training, whatever. Team to company. It makes a difference. I appreciate what your doing and for your passion. Keep grinding!!
This is exactly the comment that describes my feelings. I trained for months to join the army but while I was training I was also researching. Lack of good comparable benefits, getting stuck doing busy work, and having a very rough leader relationship turned me away. I now am fortunate to have gotten a great job with good pay and benefits and haven’t looked back. Sad in some ways.
We went through 9 months of some of the hardest training I have ever been through in my 29 years only to go to Kuwait and sit on our asses for 9 months. (I luckily got to go to Syria). This broke morale. Some of the best solders got out after that. Between that and COVID, you couldn’t keep them in. And now you can’t get anyone to join.
Combat arms and support elements should always be training. What is shown on the American media about the situation with Russia and Ukraine is next to nothing. Unless they are smart and using other outlets, the joke is on us. We should be using this time to prepare for a near peer engagement. Just like what was going on during the 80s and 90s. 90% of the population doesn't realize literally a global conflict is, or can be hours away everyday. If you joined the military in a combat arms or support role and thought that your job was going to be easy and not doing much, your recruiter lied to you. Or someone else blew that mythical smoke up your arse. R&R needs to handle their business and do what they do, recruit and retain. That's a complete different side of the Army you don't need to worry about in a line unit. Is the op tempo high? If these young ones who are bare on the right sleeve think so, they better take some advice from combat vets who have been there and done that. This time is easy compared to what it can be and what it was if your unit had been placed on deployment notice. I hate it for them, but they freely signed and raised that hand to do a job.
I laughed when I read "your recruiter lied to you" 😆 Naval service in peace time prior to Desert Storm was train, train, and train some more followed by plenty of PT. When I read about what the sailors are going through now, it's a wonder they can recruit and retain anybody. The 1980's recruits were not thinking combat deployment is right around the corner.
@Brent Dean I started my military career in the navy. Right after boot and school, I was sent to a ship that was deployed in the area of Black Hawk down. Little did I know at that time, we were there as support for the after effects of those events. I finally figured out that part many years later and after watching the movie and researching it some. But even after the transition to the Army guard, there where days that absolutely sucked and training events that sucked. To me it was just part of the job and when it was over, time to move on. Looking back, I would do It all over again, maybe with some different choices. Now I have my retirement card, and still miss it.
Currently in 1st CAV. I would rather go to the field than do layouts ANYDAY. It’s been very busy between day to day tasks, NTC, and then deployment these past 18months. I would say quality of life could improve if we had better numbers. Burning out your guys never leads to desired efficiency.
I feel you - I do. But I wonder how many Soldiers do less than 10 hours of actual work a week and if better management (rather than more people) would fix the issues your facing.
Read executive order 13223 and the pertaining US Codes, then check to see what your reserve status is w/ proper unit. You are doing this due to AR 600-8-111 Time of War and the non compliance of information dissemination... we are overran in lamen terms and some are held in digital prison EO 13223.
The simple solutions that almost save the Army guaranteed money are basic little things. Memorandums can be made to allow a little more freedom to include beards, plate carriers, helmets, and other things that take away morale, performance enhancement, and capabilities. Regulations are outdated and we live in a world now where patriotism isn’t as important as everyday life. Instead of letting boomers and POG’s ( no offense) come up with policy, let some 11 series soldiers get a say.
I’m no boomer, though I did drink from a garden hose, and as a FAST Marine, I’ve chewed some dirt. There is a gray line between individualism and the identify found by nature of the profession. No doubt.
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
I have been in the Army for over 20 years (still serving). My take on this is there is always more that can be tasked for Soldiers to do in an FY. There is only so much time that Soldiers can actually complete tasks even if you work them 24/7/365. Too many requirements have been stacked onto Soldiers year after year without taking into consideration the previous requirements already in place. This has cut into Soldiers actually doing their jobs. This is not a sustainable model and the recruiting / retention numbers reflect this.
Right there with ya. I was in the field in 2011ish and our PSG decided he wanted to have everyone complete their Soldier tasks, when he turned in his report to the CSM, he was asked “but was it quality training”. CSM knew it was BS.
I’ve been fortunate since then, to have some good CSMs that let me do things as best as I could. And sometimes that meant briefing U’s at a QTB.
Too many puff up numbers, fix numbers in DTMS to be green, etc.
and it all hides the problem(s)
There’s still some good NCOs out there, but so many today were raised by NCOs who cut corners….we need more to stand for and do what is right.
Appreciate ya brother.
This is going to be a long comment 1SG lol. To me, I’ve seen both sides! I’m a Cav Scout by trade so I know the struggle of having almost no personnel, and I’m currently serving in recruiting as we speak. Here is the BOTTOM LINE, at least IMHO: it all hinges on manpower. I agree with you 100%. It’s a snowball issue! Here’s the problem currently:
Other businesses because of Covid upped their incentives because people weren’t going back to work. Now a lot of places including many minimum wage jobs will help pay for school (Walmart being one of the biggest issues for us recruiting). You have entry level jobs giving healthcare that covers EVEN MORE than what the Army covers (Starbucks will do IVF). What this means, and I hate to say it because I don’t like to see people struggling, is that people who used to need the Army for these things just don’t anymore. We need more people with needs only the Army can solve. The Army has done nothing to offset this. They won’t even give out respectable bonuses either for some reason but I firmly believe that would make no difference. While bonuses help close individuals to join, if there is no need to subject yourself to the Army then people just aren’t going to (with the SUPER minor exception of that 0.01% of enlistees who just want to serve). This is actually a really complex issue because there isn’t an obvious solution. The things the Army gave people that were too good to pass up….. well, it just isn’t special anymore when you can get those benefits anywhere. We need a strategy to bring in people to the Army that only we can offer. The thing is, Big Army refuses to believe this is an issue because they Army “offers travel, respect, adventure!” Like people join for reasons like that anymore… It’s said that the recruiter just didn’t sell them enough, but like I said, the benefits are no longer to the level they need to be to incentivize prospects.
Because the Army hasn’t remedied the biggest issue which is that we can’t offer that much better than other employment, it has greatly affected our recruiting efforts. The missions remain the same though. This in turn pushes recruiters to scrape up pretty undesirable enlistees: people who score a 13 on the ASVAB getting waivers, some individuals getting huge packets of waivers for law…. I’m not saying they can’t turn a new leaf, but as a previous section leader, when you wait for months just to be able to have another driver to fill out your 4 vehicles with bare bones crews and you got some brand new dirt bag who refuses to listen or bless their heart has 0 teachability because they’re not blessed with understanding basic concepts….. it’s not good.
Not only are we pushing terrible quality just to try and get our numbers up, but even with the best soldiers, if there is a detail requiring 3 soldiers, that shouldn’t be an issue. But when you only have 11 soldiers in your platoon when you should have triple, all of a sudden now that detail becomes a day where 1/4 of your soldiers or more aren’t trained and it does become an issue. Later down the road all of a sudden they start to show signs of gaps in knowledge you didn’t realize where a problem because they weren’t present for a good amount of instructions.
With that rant over, I will say with all that aside we need to get back to the basics. I don’t even think we need to go to the field for weeks. Simple just make the work day a good day for training. I remember just driving the guys out after PT in the woods and just doing our job for the day and coming back. It doesn’t have to be elaborate! Honestly if every soldier of mine was a rock star at the basics, they could be oblivious to anything else and I’d say we’d be one of the most lethal scout squads out there. I think as an Army we’ve kind of lost our every day priorities where tasks that, I won’t call meaningless, but that don’t help produce better soldiers overwhelms the daily schedule. Yet there is an over emphasis on the actual field problems to the point that the individual soldier doesn’t get much value from it because it stops being about the training of each soldier as both an individual and part of the team and becomes all about “looking pretty for the right people”. Just gives soldiers a very shallow and incomplete understanding of what is supposed to be happening and why we are doing it, especially when incompetent leaders push their own thoughts and make you follow plans that don’t make sense when the plan you had and rehearsed for hours was much better and actually met the intent.
Military for decades struggled with getting people in. When there’s a war on, it’s easier. In between is hard. When I first enlisted in 95, wasn’t too much “support the troops” going on.
Unfortunately I think the machine will find ways to outsource more jobs - we’ve done it in the past (cooks, gate guards, etc) in order to twist what’s needed.
But your final paragraph is SPOT ON! I was the same way, get my guys out and get dirty. Whether it’s a PT session, convoy off post, Sergeants time training, whatever. Team to company. It makes a difference.
I appreciate what your doing and for your passion. Keep grinding!!
This is exactly the comment that describes my feelings. I trained for months to join the army but while I was training I was also researching. Lack of good comparable benefits, getting stuck doing busy work, and having a very rough leader relationship turned me away. I now am fortunate to have gotten a great job with good pay and benefits and haven’t looked back. Sad in some ways.
i loved the field, It got me away from my phone and definitely got the platoon to tighten up, like how it was in basic
We went through 9 months of some of the hardest training I have ever been through in my 29 years only to go to Kuwait and sit on our asses for 9 months. (I luckily got to go to Syria). This broke morale. Some of the best solders got out after that. Between that and COVID, you couldn’t keep them in. And now you can’t get anyone to join.
We are way overworked
Combat arms and support elements should always be training. What is shown on the American media about the situation with Russia and Ukraine is next to nothing. Unless they are smart and using other outlets, the joke is on us. We should be using this time to prepare for a near peer engagement. Just like what was going on during the 80s and 90s. 90% of the population doesn't realize literally a global conflict is, or can be hours away everyday. If you joined the military in a combat arms or support role and thought that your job was going to be easy and not doing much, your recruiter lied to you. Or someone else blew that mythical smoke up your arse. R&R needs to handle their business and do what they do, recruit and retain. That's a complete different side of the Army you don't need to worry about in a line unit. Is the op tempo high? If these young ones who are bare on the right sleeve think so, they better take some advice from combat vets who have been there and done that. This time is easy compared to what it can be and what it was if your unit had been placed on deployment notice. I hate it for them, but they freely signed and raised that hand to do a job.
Good stuff amigo. I’m sure some units get after it, but I hardly see anyone in the TAs on JBLM….
I laughed when I read "your recruiter lied to you" 😆 Naval service in peace time prior to Desert Storm was train, train, and train some more followed by plenty of PT. When I read about what the sailors are going through now, it's a wonder they can recruit and retain anybody. The 1980's recruits were not thinking combat deployment is right around the corner.
@Brent Dean I started my military career in the navy. Right after boot and school, I was sent to a ship that was deployed in the area of Black Hawk down. Little did I know at that time, we were there as support for the after effects of those events. I finally figured out that part many years later and after watching the movie and researching it some. But even after the transition to the Army guard, there where days that absolutely sucked and training events that sucked. To me it was just part of the job and when it was over, time to move on. Looking back, I would do It all over again, maybe with some different choices. Now I have my retirement card, and still miss it.
@@BillStoker I’m PAO @ JBLM, I’d say the tempo is fair, definitely not as jam packed as Fort Hood.
Currently in 1st CAV.
I would rather go to the field than do layouts ANYDAY. It’s been very busy between day to day tasks, NTC, and then deployment these past 18months. I would say quality of life could improve if we had better numbers. Burning out your guys never leads to desired efficiency.
I feel you - I do.
But I wonder how many Soldiers do less than 10 hours of actual work a week and if better management (rather than more people) would fix the issues your facing.
Read executive order 13223 and the pertaining US Codes, then check to see what your reserve status is w/ proper unit. You are doing this due to AR 600-8-111 Time of War and the non compliance of information dissemination... we are overran in lamen terms and some are held in digital prison EO 13223.
If enacted, they’d probably only go for a select few. And I won’t be one, this I know. 👊
We still out 30 days I even do 60 days in El Paso
The simple solutions that almost save the Army guaranteed money are basic little things. Memorandums can be made to allow a little more freedom to include beards, plate carriers, helmets, and other things that take away morale, performance enhancement, and capabilities. Regulations are outdated and we live in a world now where patriotism isn’t as important as everyday life. Instead of letting boomers and POG’s ( no offense) come up with policy, let some 11 series soldiers get a say.
I’m no boomer, though I did drink from a garden hose, and as a FAST Marine, I’ve chewed some dirt.
There is a gray line between individualism and the identify found by nature of the profession. No doubt.