Is your lipo charger too big? Could you be charging faster?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ค. 2024
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00:00:00 - All I want to do is charge a dang battery!
00:01:17 - The answer: a spreadsheet!
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
00:01:38 - Enter your battery information
00:02:20 - Enter your charger watt and amp rating
00:04:58 - Enter your power supply watt and amp rating
00:06:12 - Enter the input amp-rating of the charger
00:07:40 - Is the power supply wattage limiting you?
00:08:38 - Is the power supply voltage limiting you?
00:10:11 - Is the charger's watt or amp rating limiting you?
00:11:00 - What if we were parallel charging?
00:13:44 - What about a MUCH smaller, cheaper charger?
00:16:15 - Other things to consider when shopping for chargers!
The real reason your charger is slow might be its balance current charge rate: th-cam.com/video/XEIWdZHXK1c/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=JoshuaBardwell
A battery charger can charge quickly at start, but the final topping stages when first cell gets close to 4.2Volt, it can take ages. (especially when charging a bigger and older not so good battery).
Additionally balance voltage accuracy is important, some chargers can't measure IR consistently, this is due bad accuracy in balance voltage measurement, during charge the battery SAG, voltage drop under charge/discharge load is measured true the balance leadfor the cells. A good charge will consistently measure same IR number, when measuring repeatetly (check with same battery same temperature). Last important point is the calibration, my large I-charger and ISDT charger, I found them accurate from factory, however my toolkit and hobbyking charger, came badly calibrated. (not sure if they calibrate them in factory).
So for me these aspects are most important in quality of a charger; High Balance current, Accurate Balance Voltage Calibration, and consistency in IR measurement, as consitent IR measurement is best indicator for accurate circuitry. (without bias)
You are a gem to the hobby Joshua! Taking the time to make a spreadsheet like this for free is beyond awesome!
Big charger is like a gas pedal, can always not use it all
What are you talking about, my foot covers the entire gas pedal. I use the whole thing. You must have small feet.
Oh, never mind.
13:44 The moment you put the exact same charger I use to charge all my 6s 1300mha (in parallel) for the last 3 months on screen and show me whats excatly wrong with my charging setup. It takes forever and I feel so stupid! Thank you so much!
Howdy Josh, Thanks for this video and the worksheet. Great resources for those like me who are trying to wrap our heads around the complex topic of chargers and charging.
What a great resource for people new to the hobby. I'm an EE so calculating this stuff on my own is no big deal, but I know voltage/current/power sounds like black magic to some people, and this spreadsheet + video makes it super easy.
As a so called EE, you should know never to just accept anyone's calculations, its literally day 1 of any Electrical Engineering course. Just because John said a 50 amp fuse would be ok.. BANG your dead. Wake up or stop telling lies.
@@chrisnewby9771 it's.. really not that big of a deal, this spreadsheet isn't an be all end all follow it to the bone kind of thing, it's just a rough reference.
I remember a similar video you made maybe 3 years ago. So cool that you continually update
wow this is perfect! I was just shopping for my first charger today. Thank you :)
I bought the hobbymate d6 duo pro because of your review. This just solidifies the justification for spending the money. Thanks JB! Cheers 🍻
great information JB!
Thank you very much!
Useful info for those with few chargers, personally I use a 1500w psu and 5 or 6 chargers, sometimes all running at once, often with parallel boards on some of them!
What I notice if a charger is at or over it's charge limit is the amps being put in the lipo is less than I asked for (for example if I input 8a and after a couple of minutes it's only charging at 6a , then I know I need to reduce the load on that charger to be finished in 1 hour or less)
Using various brands, isdt, toolkit rc , sky rc , oc day and an old 5a non smart charger for smaller packs.
Good content though JB, a lot of people might not realise all the points you have made.
Brilliant, love it
Thanks!
Not gonna lie. I'm really happy to see the D6 Pro used as an example. I was in the middle of unboxing it with your Analog kit. Found it from your website.
I have the latest Hota S6 duo & love it.
Excellent video
I'm using ToolkitRC M7 with parallel charging board and 190W notebook power supply and it work excellent. The only one thing is that power wires are heating starting from 5A. On 7A wires is very hot. This charher is very small, I take it to nature with large powerbank- Anker powerhouse 400
Best advice I was given was a good power supply.
Just some good recommendations for capable power supplies, I use a PC power supply for my desktop and an Xbox power supply for on the road. Both capable of supporting my 10A charger charging at the full 10A. Will be upgrading soon to a 30A charger soon due to now having bigger batteries to charge for RC vehicles.
I always charge at 2C (3A) unless I have a loooot of time for charging (while home working, for ex) but I took the multiple-chargers solution. I have 4 mono and 1 dual chargers. Dual has a built-in PSU, the mono chargers are plugged on 12V 12A external PSU. I never had a problem :)
there's a government auction site, govdeals, that sells old hardware. I've found lots of 2000+ watt power supplies being sold in various forms. usually rack mounted server supplies from schools. and they're dirt cheap.
I’ve been using my isdt q6
And a gaming laptop charger. Converted to xt60.
It’s got 8amps and 19V. All I need
Dc charging is always way way better by far!!!
I have run rc cars/boats/airplanes/heli’s for a ton of cycles for a lot of years with lots of experience with it.
To charge multi-cell LiPo's faster, balance current in general is the culprit. Chargers with larger balance current will finish battery charging faster, sometimes very noticeably faster. The charger you waved around at begin is the one of best - it have one of larger balance currents between manufactured hobby balance chargers. HOTA D6 Pro, if someone is interested.
Thank you, you answered questions I hadn't asked myself! I really learned something today! ¶ ; - )
the screen on the HOTA is a weak spot, its hard not to press on it when plugging/unplugging things.
ive been considering gluing a piece of polycarbonate over it to protect it.
I also think extension cables to plug batteries in is a good idea. The short leads on the battery cause a lot of stress on the wires & connector when plugging/unplugging
The logic behind power suppy wattage and voltage is reversed, it gives yes when it should say no and vice versa.
Power boards are cumbersome and limit the plug type, spider parallel leads for charging and balancing are a better option of course best to select a single connector to simplify your charging needs, but that doesn't always happen.
I've found the XT-60 to be pretty good for attachment and removal and soldering.,
The others Dean's ok, but soldering a round wire to a flat flange can be mastered and there are some mods to help, the rest are eh! I've started using solder-less connectors use set screws to trap the lead but the company short counts on the set screws but can be purchased from Mikado USA they work fine. If you are a serious electric flyer the purchase of a external power supply with sufficient wattage is well worth the investment. A compatible and versatile charger is also required. Although this is not a simple topic he has made it more complicated than necessary.
Better to overshoot wattage needs rather than understood.
A 6 cell pack 5000mah will maximally require 6 cells x 4.2volts= 25.2volts /battery. Each battery is 5000mah or 5 amps, Your need wattage supply is
Watts = volts x amps = 25.2v x 5amp =
126watts/battery. Most parallel spiders leads allow the charging of 6 batteries afterall 6 of these batteries can cost over $600. If you fly more than 6 flights hey more power to you. But you power supply and charger must be rated to deliver for these 6 batteries, 6 batteries
x 126 watts = 756 watts, close to 1000 watts for 6 batteries. So what are you going to do shop around and save a few bucks to get an 800 watt set up? They don't make them in those increments to my knowledge, 1000, 1200, 1500 is more traditional. Many helicopter use 7cell batteries in series so there you go, give yourself a sufficient buffer anticipate future needs.
The nice thing about bigger chargers is sometimes you are using it way under spec so it's fans rarely come on depending on it's design
If you get a charger that is near the max you want to charge, The fans likely would be much louder as it is near it's max capacity.
I just divide the Wh rating of the battery/ies by 1h 😜and I get the approximate wattage that I need to charge at 1C. (Usually for parallel charging)
As safe as is fast lol jk you have tough me so much thanks keep it up 💯
An important point, is battery packs have a maximum charing current specification. This should never be exceeded. Generally staying below 2C charing rate should not exceed this value. The spec varies by battery chemistry and battery manufacture.
Worth noting that good quality LiPo, Li-Ion chargers with switch from a constant-current (cc) to a constant-voltage (cv) once cells begin climbing above ~3.9V. This means the charing current will started to reduce so the maximum cell voltage will not be exceeded (with some margin based on the realtime charging current). If want to know more details look up "lipo charging curve" and examine a the charging current vs. voltage over time.
So if really want the fastest charging time, can stop charging at ~4.0-4.1V per cell and fly while charging your next pack. Flight time per pack will be less; but you can get in the air quicker.
Looking at charging capacity (mAh) vs time will show that ~90% of a packs capacity has be added in
Its not "a Important point" it is "the most Important point"!
Hey JB what do you think about the Gens ace Imars d300 charger. Have you reviewed this already? I’ve seen some reviews that say it’s the best bargain in $ per whatt hours.
Great Video!! If i have a 1400mAh 22.2V 6S1P Lipo Battery Pack with XT60 Connector, could i use DJI FPV AC Power adapter to charge it? DJI FPC power adapter is the one i use to charge my DJI FPV drone battery. Please advise. Thanks.
Lets be honest, charging 1x 1500mah battery, just about anything will charge it 1c.
When you was to charge 6s at 20A (paraboard etc) that's where you need the big power supply to feed the big charger.
100% I have a tiny charger powered by a laptop powersupply. It easily charges my 4S 3000 mah battery at 1C...
Great video as usual. Missing the iconic intro lately.
I really love your videos. I have Lipo batteries myself. I have ordered a charger because I had no way to discharge my batteries on my own. I would just charge them and rely on the batteries to slowly discharged them but the charger I bought which should be here tomorrow it will charge the batteries and discharged them depending on the modes that I choose on the charger and it was put them in the storage mode and it will alert me if I go to use the battery pack and it will alert me before I use that battery. If it did text a dead cell then it will tell me to discard it right away that’s my next question can you make a video on storage mode am very eager and ready to learn about Lipo batteries because I was the one that had no idea you had to put so much care after buying a Lipo battery for a toy or a drone so if you could do a video properly charging/discharging and storage mode.
Hi, I need help figuring out what to do. I've got 3x (1/24 Power Wagon LIPO Battery 2S 380mAh). Should I continue charging those small batteries with the charger that came with my Power Wagon? Will it damage my batteries long term? If so, what charging setup should I go for?
Thank you for making this spreadsheet makes calculating this much easier. May I suggest that the line "What is the input amp rating of your charger (how many amps its input circuit is rated for)" maybe is better placed with the charger info section?
It didn't realise right away that this was for the charger input amps, because it was under the power supply section. So I Initially made the mistake to fill in the PSU input amps... (an irrelevant value if the PSU output amps and voltage are already known )
Btw. Are you sure about the YES, NO logic?
To me the correct answer to the stated question seems the other way round. I have 60Amps 1800Watt PSU and according to the spreadsheet I max it out with 3 x 1500 mah lipos. Maybe am I interpreting it wrong?
I think so too, was trying the sheet and using a very high wattage power supply did not change the Yes into a No. When you fill in a very low wattage for the power supply it becomes No. Same counts for the power supply output voltage logic.
Used to love isdt but then smoked 2 of them.bought a toolbox m7. Want a hota
Is there a charger that will individually do 6 mini quad batteries at 2c in the same way the vifly whoopstor does whoop packs where you can hotswap them as they finish charging.
If you want hot swap get a Toolkitrc M6D as it has the hot-swap function.
Whats the difference of d6 and d6 pro?
Just divide the output watts of the charger by the fully charged voltage of the battery. The result is the maximum amps the charger can put through the battery as it reaches full charge, provided it can output that many amps.
I prefer not to use the full charge voltage of the battery, since the charger will slow down as the battery approaches full charge. Therefore, maximum watts output is not achieved at 100% voltage. Also, you have to account for the wattage of the power supply and the input amps of the charger.
I do the same as the fudge factor, especially if you plan to charge at the max output of the charger.
@@JoshuaBardwell I don’t want the amps to drop prematurely, so I go with 4.2 volts/cell..
@@JoshuaBardwell I run a Revolectrix GT1200 (40 amps) and a GT500 (20 amps) simultaneously off a pair of Dell 12V/62A server power supplies in series. The power supplies cost $28, the GT1200 was $105, the GT500 was $75, and two parallel boards were $54 each. So, for $316, I have 1700 watts, 60 amps, and can charge eight 6S packs simultaneously. And everything fits in one plastic case ($20). I put my packs on the charger when I arrive at the field, get my planes set up, visit a few minutes, and my batteries are charged. I fly my batteries down to about 3.7 volts/cell, go home, and store them until the next trip to the field. My batteries live much longer than they did before.
@@JoshuaBardwell the specified cc-cv charge plot for a lipo has a constant current charge to 4.2V/cell (cc phase) that then slows down while keeping voltage constant at 4.2V (cv phase).
My isdt 620 and 608 both follow it and will charge at full amps right up to 4.2V and only then will start dropping as they enter the cv phase (assuming the battery is decently balanced to begin with). So it will hit peak watts at 4.2V
Can anyone tell me if a motiv defy 6000 shorty thats 100c good for racing, in a team associated buggy?
I see 130c these days does that matter or is this battery now outdated?
i like my Toolkitrc m6d and m4ac, stay away from the m6, just a bad model, even with update
if the money is available, i think "futureproofing" isn't a bad thing to do with a charger. you might only need 2-3s in the beginning but who says that you wont go for 6s 6000mAh in the future? when i got into rc flying, i needed to charge 3s 2200mAh, now it's 4s 3000mAh and i also have a plane that needs 2x 6s 6000mAh, i just don't have the batteries yet. i do have a proper charger for them though, which i use for all the other batteries that i have lying around :D
How to fill "info about power supply" for internal power supply? To "just skip it" means leave a random values.
I want to check HOTA D6 PRO with internal powersupply?
If you have an internal power supply, ignore the "INFO ABOUT YOUR POWER SUPPLY" section and the first two of the "CONCLUSIONS" section ("Is your PSU watt rating limiting your max possible charge rate?" and "Is low PSU voltage limiting your max possible charge rate?").
@@JoshuaBardwell oh, to ignore that too. Ok. Ty
What's your current favorite charger?
ISDT D2 MK2... except the fan, it cranks
Hota F6 😅
@@GardoRotor Change them to noctuas
icharger 4010
Isdt p30 with a 25v 1400w pwr supply
May I have the affiliate link to that external power supply?
It's a self built project 😁
Could you add the calculation to determine ?your batteries 1C rate ?
800mah is 0.8 amps / 1300mah is 1.3 amps / 1500mah is 1.5 amps.
Simple 1/1000 ratio
Just divide the battery's mAh rating by 1000..
Question: Can I leave my charger plugged into the wall when not charging batteries? I'm worried about screen burn in mostly. I have the Hobbymate D6 Duo
Yeah don't worry about it. The only thing that's a little annoying is the fan blowing.
LCD screens degrade with heat and usage.
@@JoshuaBardwell Oh good, it would be a hassle to unplug/re-plug everytime..Thanks
Maybe get a power strip and flick it off/on.
@@JoshuaBardwell Yeah I'll probably do that just to be on the safe side. Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. Love your videos, they have helped me out alot. New to the hobby and am finding out there's a considerable amount of learning involved.
Do you always recommend staying at 1C or below when parallel charging?
Everything I've read/watched basically says to stay at 1C per 1000mah per cell.. so if you're parallel charging 3 1000mah batteries, charge at 3C since it will be divided to 1c per cell.
I always charge all my lipo batteries at 2c individually, parallel board, or series charging regardless of size. Always 2c 😀
1c when parallel charging is a good precaution to follow
@@b3owu1f I think you may have gotten your terms a bit mixed up. C rating is a measurement of charging and and discharging. The 'mah' in your battery capacity stands for 'milliamp hour', and 1000 milliamps equals 1 amp. If you have a 1000mah battery charging at 1c would mean you charge at 1 amp. If you wanted to charge a 1000mah battery at 2c you would charge it at 2 amps. If you had a 1500mah battery and wanted to charge at 1c you would set the charger to 1.5 amps.
@@JoryFPV I may have worded it wrong but yah meant 1amp per 1000mah lol. Thanks for correction.
Fantastic, Joshua! Thanks a lot! 😃
If some day you learn how to code in Java... Nobody is going to be able to stop you! 😂
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Ooh.. don't got Java.. been there done that. Give Golang your efforts.. once you go that route you wont want to go back. :D I was a long time Java nut too.. Go got me excited to code again.
@@b3owu1f Well... For me languages are just tools... I coded in so many of them... I started with Clipper! (Yeah, I'm old! 😬)
I mentioned Java because it's free and the GUI is pretty easy to build... But C# is great as well. VB I stopped with the 4.0 I believe, I never really liked VB Net...
But Golang? I've never heard of it! I'm definitely going to search about, thanks! 😃
@@MCsCreations Golang (Go) is done by google.. wont hijack this much more.. 25 keywords, by far the fastest/easiest language to learn.. builds to binaries on all platforms, super fast compile times, etc. Well worth a look if you have some interest in a new language. :).
@@b3owu1f Yeah, I just searched about it! Sounds pretty interesting indeed!
It's something I would've used in my course conclusion work (I didn't computer science). I did all the coding in C, but I needed to test it in Windows and Linux... I bet it would've been much easier!
My chargers r too small. Well not the charger the power supply 🤣 limited 55w on small power supply .. 180w bigger one
I have 6s 6000mah batteries & 6s 4000mah batteries I try to parallel multiple
I need that 400w hota
Sorry bro not charger related. Easy bro how are you? Listen mate all fpv vloggers have done tutorials on everything as you know. I would like to known your take on How To Take Off??? Do u give it loads n whip right up? Take of n flip? Take off slow? So many ways and all of them dont feel right. Any chance of doing a tutorial on Take-offs please buddy. 🙏 I still love flying analogue 6s and not arsed in the digital wars... Thanks Mr Bardwell I'm Shakyfpv21.
Tilt it slightly forward, hold it steady, and give it some throttle ;-)
Will this charger charge a 48 volt 20 ah ebike batterey?
No. It doesn't go up to 48 volts.
@@JoshuaBardwell Thank you very much, Joshua!
I charge at 1.5A maximum.
There is no need to rush....
Same for me. A mix of 1000-1300 mah batteries, so I just set the charger to 1.5 amps x how many batteries I'm doing
Surface guys are charging 6100mah 2s at 40a...
Yes most chargers are too "big" for drone batteries. I fly larger EDF jets and can't find a "big" enough charger to charge four 6S 5000 mAh lipos simultaneously at 1C. There are plenty of dual chargers out there that can charge these larger lipos at 1C, but I have not found a single quad charger on the market capable of doing this. None.
No way that default efficiency is above a computers psu standard 80 bronze rating when a computers psu does a lot more than these chargers in power delivery to today's computer component standards, even budget rigs. 80 bronze is thier efficiency ratings and there's even better of 80 platinum or 80 gold. 80 bronze being the most common to find.
Just a comment for the intro comments about just wanting to charge a battery. Then slapp it 8nto 1c rating and just charge? I ignore all those watt numbers and mumbo jumbo. I'm never in a hurry to fly and never find myself charging 20 batteries at once. Even if I wanted to charge 5 or 10 batteries I plan ahead and just charge at a normal rate and let its do its thing no rush.
you must not have conflicting interests that keep you busy but then all of the sudden you find out you have free time but the sun is slowly setting so you don't want to wait that 2 hours to charge your 10 packs to get out there and miss your sunny window that makes for a good video....
happens to me all the time as i keep my batteries at storage voltage until i want to fly.
@@tylerelliottFPV I actually do t ever get to fly much and 9ne battery if need be will tickle my fancy.
Bottle necks, Local copy on google, Burn my house down, Cell chemistry. Glad i am not new to this.
Mr. Bardwell, I enjoy your channel very much and usually find its content very informative, but this one not so much IMHO. After watching it I believe that if you know enough to fill out the required info, you will already know enough to know what or where any charging problems would be. And if you don't know enough to fill out the info, you'd either be confused by the results or get information that could lead you to charge batteries at a rate way beyond anything they should be. This spreadsheet is more of a solution in search of a problem that it really doesn't resolve. I appreciate your attempt at tackling this subject, but I'm afraid this spreadsheet is overly complicated and allows too many assumptions to be entered to be of any real value. As I said before, this could lead to dangerously high charge rates by someone not knowing what they are doing.
I think directing people to a list of known quality chargers and batteries would be a good start. "You buy once, you cry once", and "you get what you pay for", applies to chargers and batteries as it does to anything you expect to perform well.
All the Best, Chuck
List of known quality gear: my web site www.fpvknowitall.com
3:45 you say your gonna measure ONE battery and then you put in 400 as the max, Shouldn't of that been 200 as the max?
No. Because the power is divided between the channels in use. So if you're using one channel, then all the power goes to that channel.
Parallel charging says “moore”
It's never too big.
-She
You always make shit waaaay more difficult than it really is bro 😐
Interesting you never mentioned discharge rate, which is usually the chargers actual main limitation on how fast it can balance charge lipo batteries. When you are balance charging a lipo, some cells will naturally charge faster than others. So the charger uses the balance plug to apply a discharge load to the cells that are the highest voltage as it applies input current to the main battery lead. When the difference between the highest and lowest cells becomes more than the maximum discharge current ability, the charger will begin to reduce the input current untill the cells become balanced. Obviously lipos with poor condition and out of balance cells will take much longer to charge. Most chargers have between 1 amp and 2 amp of discharge ability, and especially while parallel charging this is always the main bottleneck while charging.
th-cam.com/video/XEIWdZHXK1c/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=JoshuaBardwell
Correct me if im wrong BUT (!) the most important batteryinformation, the Charge rate, are not important enough to talk about?
Who cares a 15a charger if you cant Charge your lipo for more than 5c ( typical fpv 1500 4s / 1100 or 1300 6s).
This Video is a Explanation for "wow i can Charge my lipo with 15amps"
💥
Sorry but I think you didn't understand the video. I specifically talk about how a 1C to 5C charge rate is safe. The spreadsheet shows the max charge rate the charger could support, and the conclusion of the video is, if it's more than about 1C to 2C then the charge is fine. Basically the exact point you're making.
@@JoshuaBardwell thats why im asking for, thx for your answer 🙏
First
you are Jesus Bardwell and write FPV's Bible for all living creatures
This is a dangerous subject I wouldn't expect anyone to cover, not because it's hard but more because of all the fake crap around, same stickers and same logos but complete crap Chinese knock off chargers. This may well lead to a lot of "You said it would be fine now my dog is dead" comments. Unless people understand how electricity works, and I mean in depth not just "I know how a plug works and how to read the sticker". They could likely and literally kill everyone in the home with a 1s LiPo. I'm surprised you made a video of this as LiPo is so volatile and self igniting, it seems your opening yourself to more than you should.