Why Wasn’t The Boeing 777-300 Popular?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2021
- The Boeing 777 has been a huge success for Boeing. Since the type’s launch, it has overtaken the 747 to become the most sold widebody in history. And the aircraft’s legacy will continue into the future with the new 777X promising a lot. But amongst the variants, the non-ER, 777-300 stands out with low sales of just 60 aircraft. So why, exactly, was this the case?
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The reason Boeing did not introduce the -300ER sooner was because the engines were not ready. Asia had city pairs that would support the shorter range 777-300, but there were not many of them. When the 777 was introduced GE, P&W and RR each had an engine offering. Only GE was able to develop the engine that had the power to lift the ER and that became the only engine offering on the 777-300ER and subsequent models including the -9. The reason the airlines were so keen for the -300ER was the mission capability. When analyzing an airline route structure, the number of city pairs that support a large aircraft are totaled. As the airplane range increases, the distance between the city pairs increase and that will increase the number of airplanes required. At the time of the ER introduction, the 747-400 was the only large, long range airplane that could connect these distant, large city pairs around the world. Not only did the 777-300ER have a similar passenger capability as the 747-400, the -300(&ER) would carry as much cargo under the floor as a 747-400 Combi in the Combi configuration. With all of the carge ad a similar number of passengers the 777-300ER could fly 80% of the 747-400 mission or city pairs. The modern 777-300ER was significantly more efficient for fuel and maintenance than the 747-400. Airlines could not replace the 747 airplanes with 777 fast enough. You could say the Boeing 777-300ER put the passenger 747 out of business.
Well said. Boeing outdid themselves on that one
Next time, make a video.
@@zacherius137 LOL, I don't need to make a video because I'm in this one. Cathay Pacific was my account at Boeing from 1987 to 1999. In the video at the 2:04 mark there is a picture. I'm standing under the airplane near the center of the fuselage directly under the P in Cathay Pacific. I was talking to two women with their backs to the camera. This was delivery day for this airplane. Those were always big events.
@@jimpalmer1969these are the kind of stories that need to be told. Just way cool.
The 777-300 variant is the 777 equivalent of the 747-300 as in it was pretty much a "longer version" of the 777-200 in terms of there wasn't much difference other than capacity and size.
The winglet already different between 300 and 300er
But if it's just longer and therefore heavier, then how can it have more range ?
@@suserman7775 From my understanding, the 777-200 carried the least amount of fuel. The 777-200er and 777-300 carried the same amount of fuel, and the 777-200LR and 777-300ER carried the same amount of fuel.
I have completed 65 flights on the 777-300 (non-ER) version. Although there isn't much difference in the interior compared to a newer type of -300ER (this is highly depending on carrier plus cabin upgrades), our pilots always said the -300 offered a much better balance between fuel and maximum landing weight, i.e. it was a lot easier to operate the -300 on 3-4 hours flights from base to destination and back without the need to refuel. Interestingly most of our -300s found new owners even though they were retired at the age of 17-18. I am looking forward to the 777Xs and in the meantime I am still enjoying working on other 777 versions in our fleet. (Y)
Actually its kinda good in asia routes, such as Cathay Pacific had 17 of them, they are perfect for short to medium haul with high capacity. Cathay and ANA used their 773 in 2 to 5 hours although they need replacement with newer and more environmental-friendly such as the a350, a330neo and 787 nowadays.
It’s funny that AA uses 777 between San Juan PR and Miami that’s 2 hours top
777-300 is the replacement for the range-limited 747-100 SR (short range) and later 747-400 D (Domestic).
It was the perfect "commuter" plane for southeast Asia. ;)
@@williamerazo3921 AA uses the 777 on that route for the capacity, not the range. Apaprently a lot of people like to fly that route. They used to use A300-600Rs way back when they had those, so I guess the loads were smaller then.
@@StratMatt777 Delta have been using their 767 on JFK - San Juan route
@@williamerazo3921 Interesting.
Delta uses 767s like Southwest uses 737s. ;) (EDIT: That was probably more true pre-Northwest Airlines takeover).
Another point to remember is that the 777-300 was marketed as a replacement for the 747-100 and earlier model of the 747-200 , and i have flown the 777-300 a few times the most memorable one is on an emirates 777-300 which was only 5 days after the accident of flight EK521 & i prefer the 777-300 or the 777-300er because its less noisy .
I flown on EVA 777-300ER multiple times from Los Angeles to Taipei, and I must say, the GE90-115Bs are awesome on the ER. Love the sound when take off.
Much prefer 300ER over 747-400 of China Airlines though. Especially on EVA its 3-3-3, 3-4-3 on the 747. I haven't try China Airlines 777-300ER yet though.
A simple flying video always makes a good day a better day
A Simple flying video a day keeps the doctor away… 🤩 I haven’t been on a plane for two years 😫
Ah man, I'm so glad I got to fly last month after 2 years aswell😂. Best trip of my life to be honest! Flew on Etihads 777-300ER(A6-ETS) and 787-9(A6-BLG)
Aswell as Envoys E175 and SkyWests CRJ700.
I haven't been on a plane since last month.
I haven't too, and I miss flying
My last was in 2019 :(
Given the quantities sold, might be better to call the ER variant the 300, and the classic 300 the 300-SR (Short Range) or 300-Mk1.
In what sense would that be "better"?
The 300 came out first. The ER didn’t exist at the time. You can’t just re-designate something when you find a better thing to give the name to.
I've flown Korean Air's 777-300 on routes between Korea (e.g., ICN, GMP) and Japan (e.g., HND, KIX).
I went to New York city in 2019 in March on a 767. Wishing it was a 777-300 . It's only a matter of time of when I will fly on one. And I just cannot wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The 777-300ER and 200LR have been staples for Air Canada for years, but slowly are being replaced by the 787. Used to see a lot of them at YOW for international routes.
The 787 is not replacing the 777. The 787 replaced the 767s and some older A330s, and maybe even the A340-300 to an extent.
Flew many times with 773 both domestic and international for TG. Very comfortable for 3-3-3 configuration.
I live in Singapore and the 777-300 was a very common sight pre-COVID, with Singapore Airlines, Korean Air, Cathay Pacific and Thai Airways operating many many flights into Changi with the type. That said, I’ve yet to fly on one, which is shameful on my part because most of those rare 60+ airframes fly into my local airport. I believe Cathay and Thai still fly them, so just waiting for borders to open and the opportunity to see my aunt in Hong Kong.
I used to fly this route at least once a year with Singapore Airlines between Singapore & Jakarta. They used to fly this route 9 times daily with these aircraft and some of them do 3 rotations specifically for the short 90 minute flight each leg. Despite their ability to accommodate around 300 passengers (with the old regional products), it can still be packed to the gills especially during the holidays, that they would deploy 2 extra flights just for the group passengers.
This is my favorite aircraft type! Love the performance, always lucky enough to be on this aircraft from YYZ - LHR.
I like flying the 773 from YYZ-YVR-SYD 😎
@@thetaxman5302 you are both talking about the B77W the B773 doesn't fly the Vancouver to Sydney route and I don't think any airline flew the 773 to YYZ.
You guys do realize you're talking about 777-300ER not 777-300
Yes, I was lucky enough to fly on one of them from Bangkok to Hong Kong in 2013, I didn’t realize it was the -300 though
My only 777 flights were on -200s. My 1s was with Austrian to Vienna, my 2nd was with United to Frankfurt. I was aware of the different 777 legacy variants before the video.
I'm lucky to have flown both the variants. Both on Emirates.
Many airlines orderd the 777 to replace the MD-11
That you for this video. I have worked on both 777s from United Airlines. I have worked the 777-200 for Hawaii on the Two Class many times and o the 300s ER to Europe many times as well. I have loved flying the 777s some for many years.
I remember the difference about 777 300ER and non-ER. But one thing you forgot is Singapore Airlines because they also operate the non ER 777 300 as well
yeah. the non ERs were very popular in East Asia. I flew on them many times.
I also flew on it between Singapore and Manilla.
My first and only flight with the variant was with Korean Air Seoul to Manila. The only way to tell it apart is by the wing tips... They don't have the extended 'strakes' that the ER does (which I wish you had mentioned in the video)
So cool to continue seeing the evolution of the 777. Passing the generation on from the -200LR and -300ER to the -8 & -9. My favorite has always been the 777-200LR, because of its phenomenal range and ratio between fuselage length and wingspan proportionally balanced for its looks. Though it couldn’t have made it this far from the -200ER evolvement without the conceptual help from the -300ER. So excited to see what their next generations, the -8 and -9 can do!
I used to fly between Tokyo and Hong Kong a lot. One interesting thing I noticed is that Cathay Pacific flew both the 777-300 and 777-300ER on that route. Not sure why they would use the ER (perhaps due to down time between long haul flights? idk). Anyway, I always picked the ER flight because the ER is equipped with their more comfortable long haul product rather than the more crammed regional product. That is the difference between their excellent lie-flat long haul business class seat vs the standard recliners on the non-ER. Even the economy class seats were roomier with more legroom. The flight wasn't long, but it just made more sense to choose the better product for the same price haha
Never flown on a 777-300 but I have flown on the 777-300 ER a few times. I don't like the 3-4-3 seating in economy but right down the back they have a few rows of 2-4-2 & those seats at the sides are really good. For the economy passenger the original 777 seating of 3-3-3 was way better.
I've flown on the 773, both ER and not with Emirates. The main difference was about the IFE, since the ER was newer. Nothing to do with the fact the were ERs or not actually. Both on the DXB MXP route.
Thanx for the great video. I've flown on the Air New Zealand Boeing 777-300ER in the past though at present they're all mothballed pity as they are a nice aircraft. One day could you do a video on why all aircraft at least since about the DC 2 and 3 days all have passenger access on the left rather than the right??
I was a passenger flying Air Canada from Toronto, Canada non stop to Beijing, China. The B-777 300 was a terrific flight and the sound of the engines on take off was awesome!
That was a 777-300ER, not a 777-300.
FYI, Air Canada's flies the 777-200LR & 777-300ER. These aircraft were ordered along with the 787's in the early 2000's when AC updated their long haul fleet.
Well over 20 times, mostly with Singapore air route (YMML > WSSS) good of days with the T7
I've flown on a Singapore Airlines 777-300 from PVG to SIN in 2018!
I have flown the 777-300 from on MIA-GRU, and MIA-SCL routes a few times, though unsure if It was ER, or non-ER as inside or outside, it's difficult to tell. Some smooth rides, though.
300ER definitely. :)
You can tell from the wings and engines - the -300ER has raked wingtips that look sharper than the regular variant and the -300ER GE engines are much bigger and have a very distinctive sound.
All B773 non ER have Rolls Royce or Pratt and Whitney engines. Latam just operate the B77WER with General Eletric engines 😉
It's quite easy to tell actually. Easier than 737-800 vs 737 MAX 8 to me.
The 777-300 is an extremely popular aircraft to fly on. It’s roomy and efficient and has provisions for crew and passengers that are both comfortable and safe. The 777-300ER is the most popular Triple 7 built and the reason so many more ER’s are requested because it allows more city parings than the 777-300 and the cost difference has been determined by fleet managers in most airlines to be worth it. This post was a waste of time and the title misleading.
I have flown both the 777-300er and 200er the flight with the 777-300er was from JFK and IAD to Riyadh oerk with Saudi airlines and the 777-200er from Orlando to frankfurt I think i am not 100% sure
Yes, I flew it once with Cathay Pacific form SGN to HKG. :)
The B777-300ER is my favorite Boeing 777. It is the only B777 i flew on and it is Air China Beijing Capital to Vancouver and back
I think I have flown Cathay Pacific 777-300s a couple of times between HK and Singapore
I'm fairly sure my JAL flight from Haneda to Sapporo a few years ago was a standard 777-300.
That's highly likely :) . ANA and JAL still use these on the busiest domestic routes, like Tokyo - Sapporo, Tokyo - Naha, and Tokyo - Osaka (although there is a lot of competition from high speed trains on that route).
I’ve flown on the 777-300er 8 times but I only flew on the 777-300 once. That was back in January 2020 with Rossiya Airlines.
And I do miss the 747-400s!!! I do miss flying on them so much!! So we will continue to see how the twins will take the industry further.
I remember flying the Singapore Airlines Boeing 777-300 SQ 490 & SQ 491 from SIN to IST via DXB and IST to SIN via DXB in 2005 and I like the configuration but the Boeing 777W or 777-300ER configuration during the soft launch in 2012 was much not as comfy.
Yeah not sure but if you notice even if airlines use 3 3 3 abreast config, they are more likely to decrease legroom, in order to somehow compensate the lesser capacity compared to 3 4 3.
I flew on a Thai Airways Boeing 777-300 from BKK-KUL back in 2012!
I have flown on and worked on the 777-300 Classic as a Flight Attendant for Emirates from 2010-2013. The pilots always complained that the airplane lacked performance in the event of an engine failure. Generally speaking though it was a relatively comparable aircraft in size and comfort to the 777-300ER.
Have I ever flown in the non ER 777-300? Yes I have. But never as a passenger. Only as a pilot.. in fact, my last 50+ flights have been on it. I hope to fly the -300ER someday.
Don’t they fly the same, what’s the difference?
@@Hat65 they dont. You would think the GE90-115B on the 77W alone would make a lot of difference already
Flew on these beauties between SVO-CMB and vice versa on Rossiya (ex SQ aircraft)......Damn those Trent 800s sound fine as hell
These were great for Japanese airlines. Airlines were able to add seats to the maximum to congested airports with high demand. I love how the seating cofig is so cramped on the non ERs, but on the ER the config is probably the least dense in the world (212 seats on 300ER for ANA)
I've flown only once on a 773, Thai Airways Sydney - Bangkok via Brisbane in 2009. No complaints, it was a smooth flight. I believe Thai Airways has all their 773s up for sale currently.
I did fly on an American Airlines B777-300, on a flight from KMIA to KJFK in Flagship Business, and I had a great time in my seat, 12J (registration N7LE). About a month later, I went to the TWA airport hotel at KJFK, and I met a fellow aviation enthusiast, and he said the difference was the landing gear door
American Airlines doesn’t and never had 777-300s. Only ERs.
I flew the 777-300 quite a few times:
CX716 SIN>HKG
CX502 HKG>KIX
CX691 HKG>SIN
CX451 TPE>HKG
These are all flights within Asian major cities with CX. I flew on each of them with a 398-seat configuration which has since added to 400+. It is useful for short, dense routes.
I flew from Penang to Kong Kong with Cathay decade ago onboard 300 non ER. Overall I don't find any significant difference between non-ER and ER, however the ER has greater IFE and that notorious economy class shell seats which is why I would prefer to fly with non-ER. Overtime, Cathay removed those seats and replaced with more comfortable paddings on ER which I do enjoy.
The B777-300ER is my favorite Boeing 777.
I ´ve flown on ANA´s 773 , domestic flight. 773 is popular in Japan, however, I was surprised to the large capacity.
i think i flew on one of these with cathay pacific, that is the 777-300 without the ER at the back Cathay did not even bother to upgrades the seats
Possibly aimed at high density short to medium range markets such as Japan domestic and within SE Asia .
I have flown the -300 many times with Thai Airways, Singapore Airlines and Emirates in the early 2000's
My complaint with the 300ER is the altitude ceiling is low when heavy. It's easy to land well. Has lots of redundancies - a great airplane for tired old pilots.
What altitude can its competition do when heavy ?
I used to fly on a B777-300 with Korean Air from MNL to ICN return. It was a good aircraft, however the 777-300ER has a lesser pax capacity than the 777-300. There are more business class seats on the 300ER type, while the 300 has more economy seats of 297 seats. I have experienced flying with a 300ER type from ICN to SFO and LAS to ICN and when the 777-300 is not available to go to MNL or the pax load is not full or when it is not the peak season, they will be sending the 300ER type. Both are good aircrafts indeed
I flew on Emirates 777-200ER from DXB to CCJ back in March 2013
Flown the 777-300 with Cathay Pacific in 2009. The route was Manila to Hong Kong.
I flew Thai Airways's 777-300s more often than another type in its fleet, both domestic and across Asia. They are the workhorse for TG after A300s. The range and product are good enough for popular routes like BKK to Japan/Korea/Taiwan/India while the newer -300ER is majority used for Europe. With large cabin size and longer airframe, I prefer the -300 than the -200 or -200ER. Very comfortable even in a full flight. So sad that it seems the -300ER will replace all the -300 soon, but hope it'll be the other step for products development of TG.
773 is an unpopular workhorse for many airlines. As you can see some airlines employed the aircraft for high capacity domestic routes such as Thai, ANA and JAL although ANA JAL configured their 773s to be used for domestic flights only while Thai used them both on international and domestic. I don’t think it’s range insufficient, like before 77W entered Thai fleet, Thai used to operate 773 on some of their European and Australian routes like ATH or BNE. So the aircraft is indeed flexible.
I flew the 773s between HKG and BKK with CPA
I flew on a Delta 777-200ER from Charlotte to Detroit
what's the difference between 777-300 er and the 777-300 ,engines options ?
The 777-300 has three engine options, the 777-300ER only has one but it’s newer and more fuel efficient. The 777-300ER also has added fuel tanks in the fuselage and the wings. If you want to distinguish them, the main differences you can see are engine size (the GE90 of the 777-300ER is bigger) and the tips of the wings. The 777-300ER has a wider wingspan and a pointier tip
3 words: ER variant superior
Several times Miami Istanbul, in Turkey Airlines smooth and pleasant trip I believe 777-300ER. And two times in American to London
how do they solve the problem of front tilt of passenger A330 when converting to cargo version?
As good as I know there aren’t any changes concerning that
If you look closely to an A330F, you'll notice a bulge under the front gear, which is used to prevent the front tilt of the A330
@@il_dalla that’s only for the A330Fs which were built as freighters, converted A330Fs (A330P2Fs) are former passenger aircraft and therefore don’t have it
The original 777-300 was intended for high-density medium range routes. That’s why it was used a lot in Eastern Asia. The 777-300ER was intended as a 747 Classic replacement but ended up replacing even the 747-400 on long intercontinental routes.
My favourite airliner
Facts are the 777 hit its stride as an ER/LR type and was able to make 4-engines in this seat capacity and distance rather obsolete in due time
How to understand the picture in 1:23?
Never took a 773, but there is this one 773 from ANA I was a huge fan of because it was one of the Pokémon Jets for much of the last decade. JA754A.
the 747 pokemon was the best. ANA wants to put a Pikachu on the 737 and I hope the best
@@sergiolaurencio7534 Pikachu 737 is a thing now, from Skymark, not ANA
@@MaxCheng95 well I see in ANA
It doesn’t have extra tanks like the 300-er. It’s just a stretched 200 version, so it’s heavier and has reduced ranged. Which is why a lot of 300 non ER planes were not popular (757-300,767-300,777-300) like their ER counterparts.
Garuda Indonesia has the 777-300ER and it enter into service in 2014 (idk if it's 2013 or 2014)
I flown on both the 200ER, and 200 before, well the 200ER is from Vietnam Airlines while the 200 from Thai Airways, not much of the difference on everything but in terms of internals the 200ER did deliver more for range as well.
Never flown on a 777-300 series.
My first time flying a Boeing 777 was in 1995 with SAUDIA, on their newly delivered 777-200 series on a domestic flight from Jeddah to Riyadh.
Korean air too.
I've only flown on the -300er from Johannesburg to Doha for the world cup
Boeing 777-300 non ER isn't popular because non ER variant has short range (11,000 km on 777-300 VS 14,000 km on 777-300ER)
American Airlines uses the 777-300 a lot on domestic routes since the pandemic started.
The 300ER, not the non-ER 300
American never had 777-300s
The 300ER is just a beautiful plane
Pretty sure i have been on a -300 with emirates in 2018. Even though back than i did not know the difference.
Emirates only has 300ER s
@@abdulmajed5679 they retired the -300 around 2019/2020
What’s Airbus answer to 777 ERs ?
A350-1000, technically you could also say the A340-600 although its 4 engines are a setback of course
Each engine on the 777X cost 43 million US.
I flew on an emirates 777-300 to Cochin from Dubai and back in 2013
I flew on a Boeing 777-300 non ER once. Never again - it was horrendous.
It was FULL of people whining "Ooooh, it's not as comfy as the A340, is it?"
"I was told I'd be on an A380 ...and now THIS!!!"
"Have you seen the kitchen? Even the mice are turning their noses up"
"I'd prefer the safety and reassurance of four engines really"
"The A350 Business class is better than first class on this rattle-bucket", and
"Hello, Darling? They've put us on a 777-300 (non ER). I'm just calling to say that I love you. I've always loved you. You've been the best thing in my life. Tell the children from me that I love them, and will miss them", and even some screaming:
"Help, Help - it's a 777-300 ...non extended range - We're ALL going to DIIIIIIIIEEEEEEE!!!"
I tell you - I barely got a wink of sleep.
I wonder why British Airways and United Airlines never bought the 777-300 (non-ER) they could have used it as replacements for there 747-100/200 fleets. United could have ordered 20 777-300s instead of later build 747-400s to replace their 747-100/200s on shorter transpacific routes while maintaining a small fleet of 747-400s for longer routes HKG and SYD.
The light weight seat are like sitting on a concrete slab. When I was traveling a couple hundred thousand miles per year I would actively avoid the 777 and 787 due to the seats.
All 777s should have all been built as 300ERs.
What about the airlines needing an aircraft the size of the 777-200?
No no all 777 should have been built as 777X.
@@aseem7w9 yes!!!
I flown with KLM in the 777-300 and the 200er.
KLM only has 777-300ERs, no 777-300.
Yes.
Transaero and korean air also used non ER variant.
Transaero ceased operation on 2015.. All their 777-300 fleet go to Rossiya
U forgot to mention 200lr
Not necessary for the video, it’s about the 777-300 and for explanation the 777-200, 200ER and 300ER were needed
Absolutely agree. B777-200LR has one of the longest range capabilities in comparison with other aircrafts. If I’m not mistaken B777-200LR used to have the longest range before the introduction of A350ULR
@@ayxanaliyev but why should it be mentioned. The video is about the 777-300, in a way the complete opposite of the 777-200LR. All other variants have at least something in common with the 777-300, like the 777-200ER with the same fuel tanks and wings or the 777-300ER with the same length.
There’s no connection to the 777-200LR
🇸🇬Singapore to Manila🇵🇭, Singapore Airlines 777-300✈️
Operated every 777 model thus far. The classic 300 with RR engines was a dog.
For MTOW to MLW with MZFW flight time was just under 7hrs. Add ISA+ anything and this would all deteriorate very quickly.
Not the first aircraft like this. But with the intro of the 77W, with GE motors, life became much easier.
Only good thing about classic 777 was being able to start both engines at once. At least RR.
BA252 BA253 is a 777ER
I wonder why Boeing even bothered dumping the 773 A-model on the market and not just hold off until they had the engine technology to launch the 77W
i flew on one Thai airways 2018
okay - so: Upgrade those 300's to 300ER's asap and get a better 2nd hand value. how to?
Not viable
Impossible to do
HKG-BKK, BKK-HKG on CX and HKT-BKK on TG