How in the name of Jesus did someone not burst out laughing when he said "he's the guy who left his wife for a young one". 2022 I'm still laughing my head off
Haha!@9:36"I'll tell you what he is...he's a gentleman" Surly this must be the only time anyone has ever refereed to Roy fucking Keane as a gentleman. Hilarious.
Dunphys a legend. Loves how he gets madder as every minute passes, when the camera zooms in on him when he says "i am not gonna listen to that rubbish, if you want to call Niall Quinn Mother Theresa you can do that on your own accord" lol
The thing that really bugs me about rugby is the media coverage, being from Limerick i cant open the paper without seeing the words hero Paul O Connell , legend of Irish sport, we paid 60grand to give this guy the freedom of the city , a player that cant run , pass, kick with either foot and has zero skill is a hero of Limerick , but Steve Finnan also from Limerick wins the biggest competition in world club sport and is not even acknowledged for his achievement , thats wrong .
I think what amazes me is how Bill O'Herlihy doesn't lose his cool and keeps lighting the fire for Liam and Eamon to keep arguing! Made for great TV! As much as I love Roy Keane and don't agree with what most is sade of him, Eamon Dunphy in general talks a load of crap every time I see him speak! And for the record, he isn't Roy Keane's friend. Apart from his family as far as I remember, HIS one confirmed friend (and this is a fact) is his dog!
Roy Keane and Discipline - consider this, -13 red cards in the premiership (a record) - 2 red cards for his country -Tackle on Alf Inge Halandin which he recorded in his book was a deliberate attempt to injure him Haland -Elbowing Jason McAteer -Criticising Patrick Viera for opting to play for France raher than Senegal -Belittling the contribution of his own colleagues in an MUTV documentary. -Walking out on his country leading up to a world cup finals. Disciplined my arse !
bejaysus. just sat and watched this the whole way through. it really does expose how comfortable, anodyne and utterly vanilla the MoTD coverage is. Dunphy, Giles and Brady are just wonderful to watch.
Totally agree with tomhank9. I,m English and listening to this RTE discussion was brilliant and refreshing. BBC/ITV/SKY pundits are too scared to put their true thoughts into words, only Hanson and Redknapp come anyhere close. Lineker is too nice and will not upset anyone for fear of jeapordising his next big contract with the Beeb.
Keane was the beating heart of Manchester United and they've never replaced his drive and determination and sheer will to win plus his complete refusal to accept second best on and off the field.
I'm Irish and I always loved to see Roy Keane play for our country. I'm also a Manchester United fan. Keano is a legend to me, simple as.. but even with that said, this is Dunphy being Dunphy. Bill never tried to insult Keane, Eamon just wanted to be a martyr. I wonder how he felt when Keano exclaimed that "Eamon Dunphy was never my friend" on the late late in May. Keane didn't need or ask for Eamon to go on a stupid scripted crusade for him. "He stands up to bullies"? what???? he's not 10!!
Roy Keane Player: Fantastic box to box midfielder. Great captain. Legend for ireland and united. Sometimes dragged his team through games almost singlehandedly. Roy keane manager: Bad manager. Big mouth. Talks a lot of shite. Loses respect with every press conference. Shut up Roy! Giles: usually spot on if a bit negative Brady: See giles Dunphy: A parody of himself at this stage. Often correct but sees everything as black or white when football rarely is. Very entertaining
I read the debate you had with 'Shaftsus'. I agree with you, football is more skillful. You can start playing rugby between the ages of 12-16 and be a professional player, that'd be impossible to do in football. O'Driscoll started playing ruby at 11 and is regarded a great. If Messi started playing football at 11, he certainly wouldn't be a great. It's debatable if he'd even be a professional because you need to start playing football at a much earlier age as you know but he may be an exception.
Can anybody tell me how to set youtube to the language used by 442john. I only speak English and a little bit of French and Irish, or could somebody do a translation for me please !
keane and dunphy are so alike, they always speak there mind, never afraid to voice there opinion, its something that so admirable in them both whether you like them or not, roy was born with steele in his eyes, he won 7 premierships, 3 fa cups and a champions league, thats a lot more then brady and giles ever won, i always think a lot of irish ex pros are just a little jealous of what roy achieved, dunphy is just so straight to the point, love ya eamoon, keep rocking baby!!!!!!
and my whole point originally was that rugby is hyped up all the time in the media , ie talking about Irelands world class players , two granslams in a 5 team tournament now six that has six trophies by the way, in 100 years and Irish ruby is a success story , what is really happening is the club game is full of foreign players and coaches and the one or two half decent players we have can win something , how can a top side loose buy 60ps either their hyped up or very very unlucky lol
Remember, Keane, not Mccarthy tackled the FAI officials about 1)players travelling to Korea in economy coach while the FAI official went 1st class, 2)crappy training facility was fresh sod laid on concrete which they couldnt use 3) no footballs to train with when they arrived 4)cheap hotels. McCarthy never said a word.. Keane was aware they were competing against the best in the world and the FAI were treating the whole thing like a personal vacation even though the money was there to provide!
Given how Dunphy and Keane have fallen out this is truly ironic from Dunphy. Ferguson knew Keane was beyond his usefullness to United and used the MUTV pieces as an excuse to punt him. It's really that simple.
Great quality TV. I wish the rest of RTE was this good. I have no sides on this this, they're all brilliant and they all have their own agendas. Fair play to Bill O'Herlihy for the way he controlled it. He knew it was classic TV in the making.
Sometimes Dunphy is actually funnier than his Apres Match version! "He's given 2 interviews to MUTV, and they've both been candid". Just the way he says it is hilarious!
dunphy is magic! abd roy keane is a fckn legend,...best player eire ever had.. big time,,. yea yea i no mcragth n all brady,,,but ROY KEANE...!! nuff said...lol
I thought Brady and Dunphy would come to blows at several points of that. It made fantastic television- probably the most memorable of Dunphy's rants. And there have been a few. "Ronaldo is the classic modern brat"; "Hype is Ronaldo, reality is Kaka"- sheer brilliance!
When Dunphy said he want’s to talk about Roy Keane and the camera cut to Bill with his finger across his lips haha What a moment and picture that tells a thousand words!!!! Amazing
2) Rugby is France's 2nd most popular sport and is the most popular sport in Southern France. Rugby is ranked as being more popular than Golf, where players like Tiger Woods and McIlroy earn millions solely from endorsements. 4 Billion people tuned in to watch the Rugby World Cup of 2011, even though the time zone only suited NZ and the Aussies ideally - SA shares the same time zone as Europe, games were played as early as 3 am and very few as late as 10am. This completely dismisses your points.
i'm english but i'm loving these RTE clips. dont always agree with what these pundits say but i think they're fantastic. more entertaining than the footy. could do with more pundits like this over here. as soon as i get sky tv installed, fingers crossed RTE 1 & 2 will be part of the package ha ha. from a Liverpool fan.
A good verbal fight on TV. Talked about for weeks. High ratings. Great fun. Genuine heat, genuine passion, disagreements allowed and given opportunity. Classic Irish sporting coverage. And it wasn't alone. Rugby coverage could be just as raw and hot with George Hook doing the uppercuts. GAA coverage too could go into overdrive. It was allowed because it was truth. It's how Irish people communicate in homes and pubs. Passion, heated debate. But it's all disappeared because on the newly branded 'perfect planet of perfect love' people can't now be offended, raised voices can't be tolerated, hurtful words can't be spoken, anger can't be tolerated, truth can't be uttered, fingers can't be pointed and robust debate is outlawed as a threat to democracy.
there is far less skill because the ball is in your hands in Rugby , catch it , throw it, kick it , or run with it thats all there is skill wise whereas in football or hurling there are 100s of skills , you cant compare what Brian o Driscoll does ie running past a few 18 stone guys with the ball in his hands to the magic that a Ronaldinho could do with a ball , if you take school how many guys were 6ft 6 and 18 stone , the one that was just happened to skillful enough for Rugby coincidence?
its harder to create space when half of both teams are lying on the ground after a scrum ? if size has nothing to do with position why do they show the pack weights? its all about size and bulk in the forwards no skill ie John Hayes ,when was the last time you saw a 12 stone guy playing as a prop ? or an 18 stone guy playing outhalf, you mentioned Jonah Lomu probably the most famous player he couldnt even kick the ball and was poor under anything high , being big strong and fast was enough .
Sorry mate ! I just don't get your last comment "the man who made it happen" He walked out on his country in a world cup final tournament - Get a grip !
This is a fantastic video. Its like an episode of Fawlty Towers with Dunphy playing Basil. The strange thing is if you go into a pub in Ireland, there's hundreds of bar room philosophers just like Eammo, who insist on their views being heard in the arrogant and patronising manner demonstrated by Dunphy. Dunphy is great entertainment, but underneat the arrogance, there is a total eejit !!
I followed the debate you had about which sport is more skillful.I'm sure rugby has skill and nuances and isn't all about physicality but football is definitely more skillful. In rugby it's possible to take up the sport between the ages of 12-16 and be a professional player, in football it'd be impossible to take it up at age 12-16 and be a professional player. O'Driscoll started playing rugby at 11 and is regarded as a great, if Messi started at 11 he mightn't even be a professional footballer.
The true glory days, we'll never see punditry like it again. Four legends, RIP Bill
Okey Doke, Live!
RIP Bill. A legend gone too soon.
Dunphy with the greatest line in football punditry ever... "Rod Liddle left his wife for a young one Bill!"
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I remember watching it that night eamon went to town that night
Followed second and close second by if you want to see Quinn go down to the Olympia he’s in I Keano 😂😂😂😂😂
N wwbebee
Be etched on his headstone 🤣🤣🤣
‘I think Niall Quinn is a creep’ is such an underrated line in this whole thing, absolutely hilarious😂
gotta love Dunphy
“He’s a gentleman, he’s class act, he’s a rebel and he stands up to bullies” - Dunphy 3:16
BBC and Sky Sports wouldn't able to handle Eamon.
The greatest 13 minutes of footage in the history of Irish Television.
Wrong. Greatest in the history of television.
Love to have these 4 back on the tv. It's never been the same since. RIP Billo
the chemistry between these three is brilliant.
Bill also holds the discussion on point very well. It's a shame this combo had to be broken.
Weird watching this 15 years later in 2020 comedy gold
Only a cunt would think that.
It ain’t comedy,it’s real !!
2022 and PMSL here golden, what a line 'Niall Quinn is a creep'
I remember watching this live.... the minute I heard 4:54 "I think Niall Quinn is a creep"
I knew I was about to see something I'd never forget.
I can't watch any RTE analysis since the likes of Bill dunphy Giles etc left. I've migrated to Eamon's podcast now for the football analysis
Mother Theresa.
Was the best night ever.. Rod liddle will be etched on dunphys headstone
I put a picture of rod liddle as my profile picture on Facebook a week later nobody knew what the fuck was going on
How in the name of Jesus did someone not burst out laughing when he said "he's the guy who left his wife for a young one". 2022 I'm still laughing my head off
I watched this live, i knew i would never forget it.
jimbob jim Same as...
Ya I was laughing my head off watching this live...
Dunphy is a legend an absolute legend
@@twincammikevwhy
"he's the guy, who ran away and left his wife for a young one." What a legend!!
@ Simon Wall Dunphy is no legend he is a creep and a dick head
he left his wife for a young one
th-cam.com/video/ENBpwcNPo9o/w-d-xo.html
great glitch version of One by Johnny Cash
Hahahaha
still better than bonio version!
Haha!@9:36"I'll tell you what he is...he's a gentleman"
Surly this must be the only time anyone has ever refereed to Roy fucking Keane as a gentleman. Hilarious.
Eamonn Dunphy is a legend.
I miss these guys, great panel. R.i.p Bill, Giles and Dunphy. 😥
They're not dead
@@darrgrady9460 Bill is
Ya thay were brilliant.. Some boring C... Ts now RTÉ have..
Bill sounds like Father Ted when he says "Come now; you can't say that."
I watched this live and thought it was the most wonderful sports discussion to ever happen on tv.. imagine this on Sky?
Dunphys a legend. Loves how he gets madder as every minute passes, when the camera zooms in on him when he says "i am not gonna listen to that rubbish, if you want to call Niall Quinn Mother Theresa you can do that on your own accord" lol
This woke nonsense will have this brilliant t.v. redundant in the next 2 years.
The thing that really bugs me about rugby is the media coverage, being from Limerick i cant open the paper without seeing the words hero Paul O Connell , legend of Irish sport, we paid 60grand to give this guy the freedom of the city , a player that cant run , pass, kick with either foot and has zero skill is a hero of Limerick , but Steve Finnan also from Limerick wins the biggest competition in world club sport and is not even acknowledged for his achievement , thats wrong .
you just can't beat the 4 lads as a panel...pure entertainment every time!!
I think what amazes me is how Bill O'Herlihy doesn't lose his cool and keeps lighting the fire for Liam and Eamon to keep arguing! Made for great TV! As much as I love Roy Keane and don't agree with what most is sade of him, Eamon Dunphy in general talks a load of crap every time I see him speak! And for the record, he isn't Roy Keane's friend. Apart from his family as far as I remember, HIS one confirmed friend (and this is a fact) is his dog!
Greatest puppet master of all time was Bill. Would drop in pebbles into he puddle and watch the ripples turn into a Tsunami of lunacy from Eamonn.
this is why i love RTE punditry. they take passion in their work.
I bet Neymar when he was shaping up to take that penalty he was fuckin dreading it
@@conorsmith8551The pitch is a fucking bog
4:51 Bill: "This gonna be good"
And after all that,, Roy still hates Dunphy 😂
What? Really?
I remember breakin me bollocks laughin when he made the he ran off with a yungwan comment.
I love the zoom at 8.55 on Eamon
It's Funny.
"Can I have my single please, Bill?"
"I think Niall Quinn is a creep.".
LMAO.
There hasn’t been punditry since, that can even come close to the entertainment this panel produced
Bang on lad....... That panel was irreplaceable... Look at the watered down scripted, virtue signalling muck they have on show these days..... 🤯
Dunphy rant 16 years ago
I needed this 😂😂😂😂😂😂
What's Dunphy's opinion of Roy Keane now? "He's a pain in arse".
Roy Keane and Discipline - consider this,
-13 red cards in the premiership (a record)
- 2 red cards for his country
-Tackle on Alf Inge Halandin which he recorded in his book was a deliberate attempt to injure him Haland
-Elbowing Jason McAteer
-Criticising Patrick Viera for opting to play for France raher than Senegal
-Belittling the contribution of his own colleagues in an MUTV documentary.
-Walking out on his country leading up to a world cup finals.
Disciplined my arse !
We all forget sometimes just how amazing Keane was , easily in the top 5 PL players ever
And he didn't leave his wife for a young wan
bejaysus. just sat and watched this the whole way through. it really does expose how comfortable, anodyne and utterly vanilla the MoTD coverage is. Dunphy, Giles and Brady are just wonderful to watch.
Totally agree with tomhank9. I,m English and listening to this RTE discussion was brilliant and refreshing. BBC/ITV/SKY pundits are too scared to put their true thoughts into words, only Hanson and Redknapp come anyhere close. Lineker is too nice and will not upset anyone for fear of jeapordising his next big contract with the Beeb.
Back when RTE coverage was watchable
Was this recorded using a hen?!
Keane was the beating heart of Manchester United and they've never replaced his drive and determination and sheer will to win plus his complete refusal to accept second best on and off the field.
They enjoyed a great period of success in the 6/7 years after he left
Bill - in a class all of his own. The golden days of Irish football punditry with these 4.
Watching the lads in action is usually far more entertaining than anything that happens on the pitch.
I'm Irish and I always loved to see Roy Keane play for our country. I'm also a Manchester United fan. Keano is a legend to me, simple as.. but even with that said, this is Dunphy being Dunphy. Bill never tried to insult Keane, Eamon just wanted to be a martyr. I wonder how he felt when Keano exclaimed that "Eamon Dunphy was never my friend" on the late late in May. Keane didn't need or ask for Eamon to go on a stupid scripted crusade for him. "He stands up to bullies"? what???? he's not 10!!
brilliant video,thanks to the uploader,any way of clearing up the audio though?
The days when Real Betís were in the champions league. Wow haven't times changed lol, they're not even the best team in Seville these days.
Roy Keane Player: Fantastic box to box midfielder. Great captain. Legend for ireland and united. Sometimes dragged his team through games almost singlehandedly.
Roy keane manager: Bad manager. Big mouth. Talks a lot of shite. Loses respect with every press conference. Shut up Roy!
Giles: usually spot on if a bit negative
Brady: See giles
Dunphy: A parody of himself at this stage. Often correct but sees everything as black or white when football rarely is. Very entertaining
I read the debate you had with 'Shaftsus'. I agree with you, football is more skillful. You can start playing rugby between the ages of 12-16 and be a professional player, that'd be impossible to do in football. O'Driscoll started playing ruby at 11 and is regarded a great. If Messi started playing football at 11, he certainly wouldn't be a great. It's debatable if he'd even be a professional because you need to start playing football at a much earlier age as you know but he may be an exception.
Can anybody tell me how to set youtube to the language used by 442john. I only speak English and a little bit of French and Irish, or could somebody do a translation for me please !
Who are you referring to here St Roy or St Ronan ?
keane and dunphy are so alike, they always speak there mind, never afraid to voice there opinion, its something that so admirable in them both whether you like them or not, roy was born with steele in his eyes, he won 7 premierships, 3 fa cups and a champions league, thats a lot more then brady and giles ever won, i always think a lot of irish ex pros are just a little jealous of what roy achieved, dunphy is just so straight to the point, love ya eamoon, keep rocking baby!!!!!!
I remember watching this on tv. Great stuff I'd love to see this on MOTD! Great tv!
Legendary stuff. So many memorable quotes but one underrated one from Brady to Dunphy 'your facts aren't straight, I read your book' 😆
ok dunphy was a noting player but liam was one of the best players of his time winning european player of the year
and my whole point originally was that rugby is hyped up all the time in the media , ie talking about Irelands world class players , two granslams in a 5 team tournament now six that has six trophies by the way, in 100 years and Irish ruby is a success story , what is really happening is the club game is full of foreign players and coaches and the one or two half decent players we have can win something , how can a top side loose buy 60ps either their hyped up or very very unlucky lol
Only time I've ever seen Bill get in on an arguement (at the end)
Remember, Keane, not Mccarthy tackled the FAI officials about 1)players travelling to Korea in economy coach while the FAI official went 1st class, 2)crappy training facility was fresh sod laid on concrete which they couldnt use 3) no footballs to train with when they arrived 4)cheap hotels. McCarthy never said a word..
Keane was aware they were competing against the best in the world and the FAI were treating the whole thing like a personal vacation even though the money was there to provide!
@thetruth21987 tell me if gerard is better than keane..or what s your definition for an average player ?
Wow. I didnt know people in Ireland were so interested in English football. Is RTE the State broadcaster? Brilliant
Bills face at 5:28 is priceless, he knows this moment will go down as one of the greats
Bill (RIP) was able to give it just a good as Eamon, Johnny, Liam,
Given how Dunphy and Keane have fallen out this is truly ironic from Dunphy. Ferguson knew Keane was beyond his usefullness to United and used the MUTV pieces as an excuse to punt him. It's really that simple.
Keane-One of the greatest players ever. Dunphy-Without doubt the greatest broadcaster to ever grace this earth. Haha! Absolute legend!
Great quality TV. I wish the rest of RTE was this good. I have no sides on this this, they're all brilliant and they all have their own agendas. Fair play to Bill O'Herlihy for the way he controlled it. He knew it was classic TV in the making.
"Niall Quinn is a creep" That's fucking hilarious.
Even though he was so ridiculousy wrong with every point he made, it was great.
Sometimes Dunphy is actually funnier than his Apres Match version! "He's given 2 interviews to MUTV, and they've both been candid". Just the way he says it is hilarious!
dunphy is magic! abd roy keane is a fckn legend,...best player eire ever had.. big time,,. yea yea i no mcragth n all brady,,,but ROY KEANE...!! nuff said...lol
"niall quinn is a creep" hahahahaha straight to the point
I thought Brady and Dunphy would come to blows at several points of that. It made fantastic television- probably the most memorable of Dunphy's rants. And there have been a few. "Ronaldo is the classic modern brat"; "Hype is Ronaldo, reality is Kaka"- sheer brilliance!
The amusing fact is that during an interview in or around 2007 or so, Keane said "Eamonn Dunphy is not my friend....+_+"
When Dunphy said he want’s to talk about Roy Keane and the camera cut to Bill with his finger across his lips haha What a moment and picture that tells a thousand words!!!! Amazing
this is brilliant stuff, ya wouldn't get this on BBC or ITV!
Roy Keane has been one of the best most determined players the game has ever seen and and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. End of
Dolby atmos remix of the Johnny cash song at the start, love this video
"I'll tell ya who wrote it, I can remember his name, Rob Little
2) Rugby is France's 2nd most popular sport and is the most popular sport in Southern France. Rugby is ranked as being more popular than Golf, where players like Tiger Woods and McIlroy earn millions solely from endorsements. 4 Billion people tuned in to watch the Rugby World Cup of 2011, even though the time zone only suited NZ and the Aussies ideally - SA shares the same time zone as Europe, games were played as early as 3 am and very few as late as 10am. This completely dismisses your points.
Dunphy changes his views like the weather...he's the George Hook of soccer..a novelty
i'm english but i'm loving these RTE clips. dont always agree with what these pundits say but i think they're fantastic. more entertaining than the footy. could do with more pundits like this over here. as soon as i get sky tv installed, fingers crossed RTE 1 & 2 will be part of the package ha ha. from a Liverpool fan.
A good verbal fight on TV. Talked about for weeks. High ratings. Great fun. Genuine heat, genuine passion, disagreements allowed and given opportunity. Classic Irish sporting coverage. And it wasn't alone. Rugby coverage could be just as raw and hot with George Hook doing the uppercuts. GAA coverage too could go into overdrive.
It was allowed because it was truth. It's how Irish people communicate in homes and pubs. Passion, heated debate.
But it's all disappeared because on the newly branded 'perfect planet of perfect love' people can't now be offended, raised voices can't be tolerated, hurtful words can't be spoken, anger can't be tolerated, truth can't be uttered, fingers can't be pointed and robust debate is outlawed as a threat to democracy.
whats up with the sound quality? plz post somemore vid of dunphy, hes a class act
Love the way the camera zooms in at 9 minutes.
its absolutely great to watch these guys slug it out lol i know whose coverage i was watching at the Euros this year
The RTE football studio has to be the most entertaining thing on television.
he's a gentlemen and he stands up to bullies!! love it and Dunphy's rants!
all of them said' can I finish? lol
its on the rte website.
Bill knew well how to handle Eamonn and get the best out of him. RIP.
there is far less skill because the ball is in your hands in Rugby , catch it , throw it, kick it , or run with it thats all there is skill wise whereas in football or hurling there are 100s of skills , you cant compare what Brian o Driscoll does ie running past a few 18 stone guys with the ball in his hands to the magic that a Ronaldinho could do with a ball , if you take school how many guys were 6ft 6 and 18 stone , the one that was just happened to skillful enough for Rugby coincidence?
Bad audio quality, would like to see a re-upload with better sound quality.
wish they had this show in england
well said mate. What a show these men give us. Yet some still give out and complain.
Brady's face is hilarious!
brady was spot on for me
its harder to create space when half of both teams are lying on the ground after a scrum ? if size has nothing to do with position why do they show the pack weights? its all about size and bulk in the forwards no skill ie John Hayes ,when was the last time you saw a 12 stone guy playing as a prop ? or an 18 stone guy playing outhalf, you mentioned Jonah Lomu probably the most famous player he couldnt even kick the ball and was poor under anything high , being big strong and fast was enough .
That dramatic zoom at 8:54
Sorry mate ! I just don't get your last comment "the man who made it happen"
He walked out on his country in a world cup final tournament - Get a grip !
This is a fantastic video. Its like an episode of Fawlty Towers with Dunphy playing Basil.
The strange thing is if you go into a pub in Ireland, there's hundreds of bar room philosophers just like Eammo, who insist on their views being heard in the arrogant and patronising manner demonstrated by Dunphy.
Dunphy is great entertainment, but underneat the arrogance, there is a total eejit !!
Agreed - Stephen Ireland is getting better and better. I hope to see him playing for Ireland again soon - Grandmother or no grandmother !
have you been to Ireland?
I followed the debate you had about which sport is more skillful.I'm sure rugby has skill and nuances and isn't all about physicality but football is definitely more skillful. In rugby it's possible to take up the sport between the ages of 12-16 and be a professional player, in football it'd be impossible to take it up at age 12-16 and be a professional player. O'Driscoll started playing rugby at 11 and is regarded as a great, if Messi started at 11 he mightn't even be a professional footballer.
Gotta love Dunphy, opinionated, outspoken, beligerant ang not afraid to get things completely wrong!