My Review of the Felder AD 941 Jointer Planer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Here's my review of the Felder AD 941. I have had it now for several weeks and am ready to share my initial thoughts. I have ran it through several tests.
Previous to this machine I had an Hammer A3-41 and before that a Grizzley 12" jointer and a Powermatic 15" planer - and if you go back a more years I've had too many different machined to mention.
If you have this machine or are considering purchasing it - I would love to hear your thoughts and questions in the comments below - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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Thanks for sharing. It bought a 951 six years ago and have never regretted it. The accuracy coupled with the ergonomics puts a smile on my face when I have a big pile of rough sawn timber ready to start a project.
I've had my 941 for about 2 /12 years. Its such a wonderful machine I still get a thrill every time I use it!
I’ve just taken delivery of an AD941. Awaiting commissioning next week so a very useful video. Thank you
you’re welcome. I think you will love the AD 941!
What a machine, Darrell! I’m so glad you got it ok and love using it.
Thanks Justin !
That is a fantastic machine that will give you exactly what you need in regards to precision. I'd love to ditch my jet combo machine for a cheaper Felder. I can't dial my jet in the save my life and when I get close it loses its settings. Nothing more frustrating than chasing a combo machine lol. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks,, I really appreciate the precision of this machine after owning a lot of machines that weren’t up to this level. I wished I would have bought it years ago
Glad your new machine is 100% Awesome
thank you!
Thanks Darrell for sharing your experience with this machine. Its my dream machine..love it..
Thank you, Nate!
Darrell, I'm looking to up size to an AD 941 from an AD 531. I had a Hammer A3-31 that just wouldn't work so Felder allowed me to upgrade to the AD-531. The AD 531 is a bit quirky in that it's the only planer jointer in their whole lineup that doesn't have spring assist tables. But besides that, I'm completely happy with the upgrade, Felder planers are by far more robust than the Hammer series. The spring joint is how they adjust cutter head relative to the outfeed table. On traditional planers/jointers the cutter head is set just above the outfeed table, not so on this style of machine. The same effect of the cutter head being just above the outfeed table is obtained by lowering angle of attack, if you will, of the infeed table. The board ends up going up and over the cutter head from the infeed table onto the outfeed table. Not knowing or understanding this, might be why you struggled setting up the Hammer. And yes, the adjustments are very, very touchy. Often the final adjustments are made to the bolts without loosening the lock nut, but instead just tweaking it with the lock nut in place. I know this because the tech spent many hours on several return trips working on my Hammer resetting the table alignment and spring joint because it just wouldn't hold it. I bought the tech setup on the Hammer at half price, ask when buying to talk to service as they may approve of the discount on new purchases. And like you, I like a small spring joint of about 0.005" or so, not the 0.020" they spec. But you do need one, otherwise, like a standard planer, you risk having the cutter head below the outfeed table that will cause "Banana" boards. 😜
All the Best, Chuck
Hi Chuck, Yes the Felder line is a big step up from the Hammer line. The Hammer was a good machine but the Felder is so much better. I attempted the remove the spring joint in my Hammer but found it was so very touchy and different that any other jointer I had worked with. Darrell
Glad you got a machine up to your standards. A quantum leap from the Grizzly.
Thanks,Joe. Quite a quantum leap - the grizzly machine gave me fits!
Wow what a beaut Darrell! Great review.
Glad you liked it!
Nice video. I had my commissioning done and the young tech spent a good deal of time getting the machine right. After he left I somehow messed up the planer calibration when I was trying to shift from metric to imperial and, as you said, the manual is pretty much junk so here I am on TH-cam right now looking for videos on how to do the "20mm calibration" on it. If anyone with an AD 941 who has done this could chime in, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Would love to know details on problems with initial setup that you mentioned and how you approached them.
Great video!
The biggest problem was probably maneuvering it off the pallet! Most of the other issues were the manual that was vague and in one case wrong
Wow, thanks for the review!
thank you, Steve!
Thanks for the great review, Darrell!. Definitely a nicer machine than my 741 (though I don’t really have any complaints). May need to add that fancy guard and outfield table. Really hate the way the guard sticks out a mile when the fence is pulled in.
Thanks Ron. The guard is nice indeed.. the 741 is definitely a good machine as well!
I have the 741 as well. You can make the shorter guard from a piece of wood like I did. It is worth the time spent. Or if you have money, then comfort guard is the way to go.
741 is a great machine, and 941 is even better. Probably my next one will be used Format or Martin machine.
Thanks for the review, and for mentioning some differences from the Hammer.
Thank Peter, You're welcome!
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker I'm contemplating buying the A3 or AD941. I live in Redmond and am taking classes at Ebanista School in the Georgetown area. I'm wondering if you'd mind if I came by your shop sometime to check out the Felder and get your impressions after having used it for a while. If you're open to that, please send me a direct message via twitter so we can follow up. Thanks.
Hi Darrell - great addition to the shop. It is ashamed that Felder went away from the 4 post system on the AD741. I have a 2005 model AD741 with the Digi-drive and it has the 4 post system. This 17 year old jointer/planer has never needed adjustment and has been dead on its entire life. Steve
Thanks Steve, That's seems to be the consensus - these machines may need to be tuned up in the beginning but then stay good for decades. The tech told me he sees new machines - then machines that are over 20 years old. Apparently the number one issue with old Felder jointer planers is the drive wheel getting a flat spot because users neglect to put them in neutral when not in use.
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker Yes. I put a yellow label with large print on the underside of the jointer table to remind me to disengage the drive gear.
@@extremewoodworker Hi Steve, would you recommend staying away from the AD741 because of the four post design not in place anymore? I’m starting to look at the market for a combo planer/jointer machine. Thx
@@tundrawhisperer4821 Darrell mentioned why he went with a 4 post machine and I agree - accuracy. The only advantage I see to a single post planer table is price. For me, I would never purchase a single post planer. Depending on your use and expectations, a single post machine may be okay but it is not likely to be great.
@@extremewoodworker Steve, How does one disengage the drive gear on an AD941? Thx
I have planner ENVY. Beautiful machine. 🇦🇺👴🏻
Thanks, Mark
Excellent review
thanks!
Great machine, i have the format4 dual 51
thanks
Darrell, awesome review. In watching I am curious if the slight low spot in the in/out feed tables is due to the hinge mount on the machine maybe causing some deflect? Hard to tell as the fence covers that area when you test with the gauge, but almost seems like it lines up close to those dips. Regardless, it seems to be super solid and within your tolerances. Jealous of the wide jointer capacity!
Hi Kyle, That's an interesting thought.
That is a very interesting point! 🤔
Great review thanks for the info
thanks - sorry for the delayed reply - I must have had notifications turned off
Nice review. I wish you could enlighten us to what the tech did to change from spring set, feel It’s a heavily guarded secret(nothing in manual).I purchased the KF700s,FB510,AD741,AF22 and the Hammer HS950 last year none of which were set up correctly, most arrived broken and tech/agent absolutely useless. Great machines but having saved up for twenty years very disappointed with service.
What location did you order your machines from? Apparently the tech's have their own region based on the different showrooms around the country. I can only speak for the tech based out of the Sacramento showroom. He was very knowledgeable and open to discussing what he did in detail. Having heard the horror stories I was a bit apprehensive - but my tech experience was very positive.
I’m based in Ireland. That’s the problem your at the mercy of the dealer and felder as a company removes itself from the equation once the machine leaves the factory. I invested in a brand not realising that they are no way connected to the product. Not even and email address. No control or care about the agents/dealers. That’s why a good manual would have been helpful but also why your you tube video are invaluable..
I recommended to you to get the single function Felder machines. I don’t believe in a combination machine. I had one of these before used it for 4 years or a ours and as you found out they are finicky when they go out of whack. I have the A951L. The good thing about where I live the agents are less than 15 miles away. So I can get them over fast. The thing I wasn’t able to sort out yet is dust collection. These are beasts that need lots of airflow and need 6” ducts rather than the standard 4” most of us hobbyists have. Even with a 5hp collector I have to keep using the air compressor to keep things clean inside
Yousuf, in a perfect world I'd agree with you as far as single purpose machines goes. But many of us just don't have the room for two machines even if cost isn't a problem as is the case with me. I also didn't have room for a 16" and had to settle for a 12" due to the length differences. It looks like I can make room for an AD-941 now. Dust collection is just not one of Felder's strongest points IMHO. I think they could do better, but they really aren't that bad either.
All the Best, Chuck
Sorry for the delayed reply - I must have had notifications turned off for a while. - as toochuck said I am limited on space. I would go for separates in a perfect world. I have a 5hp dust collector and my AD941 is at the very end of the collection line. If I have any other gates open it is barely sufficient. When all the other gates are closed it does fine.
.865 .... not gonna lie, 22 mm or whatever sounds so much nicer 😊 sweet machine. The thicknesser table seems very short? My old Löwer has a table 1m long for thicknesser...helps feeding in. Did it ever bother you?
it is a bit short without the outfeed extension. But with it I am fine.
Accuracy of the planer when new is rarely an issue. The problems accrue over time as the machine settles and dust starts to creep in to the lift screws, bearings etc.
Because most machinery makers don't season their cast iron anymore the casting has not settled and movement can occur after machining. This type of machine because of its design, will over time loose its initial factory dial in. Especially the table's but also the planer bed.
Once the wear sets in its incredibly difficult to redial.
I have dialed in quality older machines to good as new but these sheet metal hybrid types.
Can't be done. Uneven chain wear, screw wear, sprocket wear etc It all adds up. Those rubber boots eventually crack and let the dust in. Dust is abrasive.
What I like about the newer machines is the precision. I can change the thickness by .005 and consistently so with with extreme precision. The newer cutter heads are an advancement as well. I know you can get replacement spiral heads for older machines and I did that in the past - but it didn't live up to the cut I get on my Felder. I do wish the castings on the newer machines were seasoned for a longer period of time. I am a couple of years into this machine and it still sucks the boards down on the outfeed.
Before I bought this machine I talked to people who have had Felders for nearly 20 years - they were still happy with their machines.
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker
The newer machines are just window dressed older machines.
Everyone is falling for the insert head's and the slick panelling.
That's not what makes a good machine. Felder does not season their castings properly. You may get lucky. You may not. The Felder system is designed for modular cheaper production. They pitch to wealthy retired hobbyists and small self taught business owners . The days of the great high quality machinery manufacturer's are sadly over. Sheet steel and extrusions are the way now. Felder is third rate dressed as first.
While I agree to some degree with the casting issue - I respectively disagree with the overall passement of newer machines. There's a lot of technical advancements that the older machines simply do not have. The insert heads are a huge advancement as is the ability to move the planer bed up in increments of .005 with a high degree of precision and repeatability. Felder is by no means 3rd rate.
@@joschmoyo4532
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker
I use insert heads. For some things they are great. But planer head's? To much down time and the finish everyone raves about is overrated. You rarely if ever see Felder machines in pro shop's because Felder themselves know their machines simply will not withstand the rigours of full time use. They simply are not sturdy enough or accurate enough when handling large heavy stock.
The fences in particular are badly designed.
@@joschmoyo4532we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I love the cutter head on my AD 941. In my experience the finish is not overrated. The machine is well built and extremely accurate.
Hello, thank you very much for sharing. A question from your experience. Do you recommend a indutrial planer with an up or down motor? They told me that the ones with the upper motor have more problems but I honestly don't know. thank you so much
Hi Miguel,
I have only had planers with the motor down below so I don't have any experience with the top motor units.
Nice looking machine, I’m looking to selling my single machines and picking a combo machine at some point just to get a wider jointer.
That's essentially what I did when I originally bought the Hammer unit. I don't think I could go back to a 12" jointer now.
Do we have to be so detailed to create beautiful pieces i think sometimes we go overboard i think we should hone our skills more than how we hone these tools
How we approach woodworking is neither here nor there. I choose to fine tune my machines - and I enjoy that. That does not mean I am without skills.
If you choose another path - that is fine as well. To each their own.
What is the price
Nice review! How much more money as this than the hammer a3 41?
I just received an A3 41 and feeling a strong sense of buyers remorse. The outfeed table isn’t flat. The beds weren’t coplanar from the factory and adjusting them accurately is next to impossible as they every time you tighten the nuts to lock the height adjustment bolts in place the compression on threads throws out the table adjustment a lot. Terrible design and not what I expected for the money.
Thanks! If your outfeed table is out of flat far enough they will replace it. I had the A3 41 before purchasing the AD-941. I had the same adjustment woes with my A3 41.
When I bought the AD 941 I added the "commissioning" service so it would be perfect - and it is. With commissioning and shipping my machine came to just a little over $15,000.
I think my mistake with the A3 41 was not having it commissioned. For the price the A3 41 was a good deal. But its not in the same class with the Ad 941.
0.002 feeler gage and an aluminum straightedge. Are you measuring the table or the straightedge?
Yes - at that point it could be either.
Agree. Also, 0.002 seems like a lot of zeros and « thousands » always sound nice but at the end of the day 0.002 inches is 0.05mm for us.
And this straight edge is only guaranteed to have 0.07-0.08mm accuracy.
You want the other model, the one made of steel, that is guaranteed to be 0.025mm accurate.
Thanks for your information about the hammer you originally had which is currently what I just received the C 3-41
It sure is a heavy beast and came with many discrepancies and parts of the machine out of calibration
But my jointer surface out of all has been the most particular and difficult to calibrate
What exactly is the spring joint we’re all talking about
The spring joint leaves the smallest of gaps in the middle of edge jointed boards. This keeps pressure on the ends of the joint to maintain a closed glue line.
Adjusting the jointer tables to coplanar with these machines is extremely difficult. That's why I had the tech come out to "commission" mine.
Darrell, thanks for the info. Any problems with snipe on the planet?
Hi Craig - Not at all
Thx for the video! I‘m interested in this machine too! Which motor would you choose? Also is the power drive a recommended upgrade? Greetings!
I got the 3 hp motor - which I am happy with. I thought the PowerDrive was standard (I could be wrong) . But I do recommend it. I originally had a Hammer A3-41 and was not fond of having to manually crank it up and down.
Hi Darrell. Fellow AD 941 owner here and I concur it's an absolutely fantastic machine. My question to you is have you ever had to do any maintenance or adjustments on the infeed roller? I've been doing some planing of reclaimed boards recently and the machine would often stop feeding at random times despite having a clean thickness bed.
I haven't done any adjustment on the rollers. Sometimes boards will pull to right as they come out of the planer - it really doesn't effect anything but it sort of feels like the roller(s) might be ever so higher on one side.
Many years ago I worked under a guy who I consider a true master. I would tell him there's a problem with feeding boards through the planer. His standard answer was " wax the bed then come back to me"
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker Thanks for replying! Just did a thorough cleaning and waxing and that seems to have made a night and day difference. I think some of my problem might have been that the boards were wet and the wood fibers were softened enough to make the infeed roller just grind down the starting edge of the board.
@@perfectagent0075 sometimes a simple waxing can perform miracles!
Great review. I have the same machine and will have it commissioned next month. Did they send you any sheets or anything related to what they would do to the machine? Also wondering if they attached your outfeed table, adjusted it, etc. Thanks.
I don't recall them sending me anything about what they would do. I believe I asked a lot of questions in advance to determine what they would be doing. I bought the auxiliary outfeed table afterwards and did it myself - it was pretty easy.
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker Thanks, Darrell.
Hi Darrell,
Is the accessory outfeed table for the planer about the same width as the planer bed? Did you get the rubber or segmented infeed rollers? When removing the machine from the pallet there are two bolts that get inserted into the lower back area of the machine housing, did you receive them as standard equipment or did you have to order them? Thx
Sorry for the delayed reply - I must have had notifications turned off for a while. The accessory planer table is 12" wide ( narrower than the planer bed)
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker Thanks Darrell. I have had one on order for two plus months now. Hopefully is arrives soon. Thx
Hi again Darrell, had another question for you regarding the auxiliary fence they offer as an option. Did you get this fence and have you used it? I’m still a bit confused how it assists you with thinner materials. But this is what Felder says to describe it; [ When processing thin or narrow workpieces the new tiltable auxiliary fence attached to the jointer fence, guarantees a safe and comfortable planing operation.] Thx
Sorry - I just now saw your comment. I was not aware of the auxiliary fence. I will look into it!
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker Felder explained the auxiliary fence purpose to me and I ordered it with my machine build. My machine is now on a container ship due to be here in mid May. Thx
Dear to test single table is one thing, most important is adjust the planing amount to nearly zero and test with ruler acroos the spindle where there is no cutters, this is affact real flatness, to make single table accurate is very easy for any metal processing
Hi! I am getting an AD941 and wanted to see if you had any dimensions for the length and usual width of the machine? I think the manual says 2360mm (~93 inches) and width at max 1360mm (53.5 inches) I did not know if that was accurate based on your assessment as the manual is a bit spotty as you mention.
The length is indeed 93" when you measure back to the handle for the fence. The width is a bit narrower than stated. I moved the fence over to extend the guard and got 46" at the widest.
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker Thank you so much. I am looking forward to receiving it for the shop. Should be a nice upgrade from the a3-26
@@Tiger2000Lion2005 I think you're going to love the AD 941. I upgraded from a A3 41. When I bought mine it seemed like forever before it arrived - but worth the wait!
Darrell, thanks for great video. Could you offer an approximate “working width” needed to operate the machine, I,e, the machine width + required offset from a wall + width needed for you to pass alongside the machine? I’m a little tight in my shop for width, length is no problem.
Sorry for the delayed reply - I must have had notifications turned off for a while. From the wall to the outside of my machines is 50" - but I think I could be about a foot closer to the wall and still be fine.
Thanks for the response Darrell. Appreciate the information to get me started. Received my AD941 and following up that I was able to get face of my machine 36” from wall. I could not find this dimension in any documents from Felder, so maybe will help someone.
Hi Darell, many thank for this review. Lot of information about the machine!
Can I ask you the price for this machine? I ‘m looking for a purchase the AD741 ( 12800€/ 13500usd)
Regards
I paid about $15,000 - but about $1,000 of that was to have the tech come out to "commission " it
The other downside to the big machines is that there is a minimum length one can run through them which is like 10” long. So doing small pieces is a big NO NO.
the minimum depends on the distance between the feed rollers (planer). I don't believe this would necessarily be any different with a combo machine.
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker I meant the jointer side. the gap between the in and out beds is sizable and it doesn’t look like a good idea if a short piece dips slightly into the roller with the right support. And I read it somewhere. May memory might not be great but I think I got a short piece flying off my hand. Maybe it’s 3x the width of the gap between the beds
@@yousuflootah I think we must be talking about different machines. The gap on my jointer between the beds is quite narrow.
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker I have the jointer version of called the A951L. Which is has an extra 10cm capacity I don’t think the gaps between the bed exposing the cutting part is different than the AD941. I guess it’s experience then 😅
Is that 90* elbow a Felder part? its a 120mm to 6" elbow I assume?
I am a little unsure what you are refereeing to? The safety guard? If so its about 22" long with the knuckle being half way ( 11")
Sorry, the dust port adapter.
@@MrBertstare yes - its a Felder part. Its 120 mm to 120mm. My flexible hose is 5" - which is a bit larger than 120mm. To make up the difference I wrapped the elbow with thick traction tape that's meant to go on the floor.
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker thank you
🤔 I don’t get it, you checked the surface of each table that you couldn’t change even if you wanted to, but you didn’t check the tables in relation to the blade & one another ?
Hi Steve, I am checking the machine to illustrate how flat the tables are. I'm not troubleshooting a bad cut or showing how adjust the jointer section. The cut I am getting is quite true - so there is no need to check the height of the outfeed in relation to the cutter head.
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker 👍
Price how much
He mentioned 15K with commissioning service.
Sorry for the slow reply - yes about 15K with the commissioning
Woodworking simply does not require the planer tables to be flat to .002 - 2 thousandths of an inch. Put the straight edge on it if it's not flat it will show to the naked eye. .002 feelers gauges is just anal. There must be some Felder employees who watch this video to have a rather rueful laugh. 10:50 I can't watch anymore.
I did not imply that .002 was necessary. The point being made is that the bed is incredibly flat.
You do need more accuracy than the human eye can detect though . I hope that isn't your standard.
@@DarrellPeartFurnitureMaker Light passing below the straight edge is actually a very very good and precise measure of flatness, even with the naked eye.
@@Maxime-ho9iv Yes! - I've done that before..
Why the f would you spend on this thing. Overkill😊
Jointing and planing are probably the most important operations because they dictate the precision of all subsequent work. So being a bit overkill there is certainly not wasted :p
this machine will also last Darrel 20 years and he would be able to sell that machine at atleast 50% the price he bought it for ten years after the purchase if he wanted to sell... so its not overkill if you can make profit with a virtually risk free investment
Sorry for the delayed reply - I must have had notifications turned off for a while. I've also had comments to the exact opposite saying that my Felder is basically not a good machine. (to each his own) As already mentioned in the other replies - jointing and planing are crucial to the process. This machine gives incredible precision and makes the rest of the process go smoothly.
Darrell, thanks for the info. Any problems with snipe on the planet?
Hi Craig, the snipe is non existent!