Fr the guy might actually be innocent but he's not helping his case in the grand scheme of things here. Ultimately we just need to leave it to Bungie to handle these things, but in the meantime he shouldn't be a dick about the whole situation. I guarantee Aztecross wants nothing to do with this whole situation and yet Viper is making a mountain out of a mole hill against him.
Yeah you have to understand where cross is coming from. It’s not crosses fault someone’s trying to frame the guy. Cross is doing the best he can with the situation, and hearing out the guys defense of himself, which would amplify the issue he’s dealing with and Bungie might catch on and stop themselves from falsely banning him
Ip banning doesnt work lol people just get a vpn and then they're good they do however get hardware banned but most of them sell cheats so they can afford a new pc so they dont care
Believe it or not, but there is an entire GOS cheater community farming clears/carries. It confuses me to this day why anyone even thinks about cheating in garden, but I guess I am just not braindead enough.
I was about to say, 90% of the playerbase can't stand on a plate so I can see why lfgs cheat 😂.@@traviszane5334 I still won't do it, but I've beaten my head on that wall many times
Yup instead he whines and rants about it without getting straight to the point, listening to his anoying voice really wanna makes u smash the monitor somehow.
@@kajanjohnson4664 I wasn't doing a hate comment towards anyone. I'm not on your side here. Get help and stop hating on people you don't know on the internet.
@@dragonzlucas Stop trying to censor his opinion of people. I'm not on your side here. Get help and stop hating on people who share their opinion on the internet.
I had something similar but back in D1 and this random pretty much soloed the entire encounter from the platforms, sisters and oryx and made it seem like it was normal.
Was farming oryx a few weeks ago when it was featured, guy said don’t worry about dps I got it just do mechanics. So dps starts, he insta one shots him. Nobody asked dude to do this and he immediately left after that one run. Shit reminded me of the original MW2 rank boosting on those JTAG lobbies. Wild.
Happens all the time in raids. You join on a Boss CP to get your pinnacle and some rank 2 account is in there one shotting the boss. Just make sure to leave as soon as you see it so you don't get the loot because cheating and playing with cheaters is for f4gs
I'm just confused how Aztecross is to blame for this, if I saw correctly all Aztecross himself did was report him in game. So not too sure what the warlock main here did.
Even he said he doesn't think Cross did it intentionally, but every youtuber has those fans that are shitty. Plus, even just a few ppl harassing a smaller youtuber can be alot to those not used to it.
He's not responsible in the sense that he directly called for a witch hunt, but his actions directed attention to vipers channel. Like, he could have simply reported the cheater, but he actively brought attention to his channel by saying, "He's got a youtube channel? Duhviper on youtube? This is how he advertises his youtube channel?" He mentioned youtube or his channel 3 times, then clicked on his profile, hovered over the name and said "Look at him, an epic gamer." He didn't DIRECTLY call a witch hunt, but bringing that much attention to the name and heavily emphasizing the youtube channel didn't help. If anything, it comes across as a *wink wink nudge nudge* type call to arms. It's a grey area of "threat" sort of like "It'd be a shame if something happens to you tonight"
I've seen a lot of streamers do the same. While Cross can tell his chat not to do something, it's ultimately up to the people in chat. All Cross can do is say not to. But he's not their parent or the cops. He can't actually prevent them from expressing their feelings.
@@torvasdh Eh. Like Aztecross says, it ain't exactly a rare occurrence for people to openly advertise their cheating service. This only happened because the cheater was in fact, a cunt and tried to do a framing job. Aztecross did what any other player would do upon seeing a cheater, look at their profile. It ain't exactly a wink wink nudge nudge call to arms, he's just reacting to the info given lol. Not exactly his fault lmfao.
I had someone matchmake into a Corrupted strike with a rapidfire Xenophage and I managed to keep grabbing the balls and extending the strike for about 2 hours lmao. They never left for some reason and tried to plead w me to stop delaying
I was actually playing a match once and a cheater killed me. After reporting and spectating him walking completely immortal through the floor with perfect aim he gets banned mid game. A cheater getting banned mid game. Destiny could never lmao.
Bungie and other devs have said before that they ban in waves every few months to prevent the cheat makers from knowing what version of cheats flagged the anti-cheat. It also doesn't help that when someone gets banned it doesn't at least tell them what ban-able category they got; harassment, cheating, evasion, etc. If they did that, then they could probably do more frequent ban waves if some cheaters had a different offense that could be used so it doesn't seem like the cheats got detected and potentially delay any new cheats. It would be great if there was a way to submit clips of blatant cheaters - like the ones shown in the vid - to a Bungie team; likely it would require a form to be filled out to include the cheaters Bungie ID to help filter reports and prevent misidentifications, and the reporters Bungie ID and a link to Post Game Report Card to prevent false reports.
Oh yeah Fortnight bans all cheaters!! For the uninformed, Bungie and Fortnight both don't own their anti-cheats. They pay another company. @@lordgrub12345
It's not me lmao, it's operator augment, who is #3 on raid report. I let the cheaters in my clan and in my fireteam. It was only intended to be done in private lobbies. Operator augment invites me to that gos which i didn't know was an lfg, and it kinda just went from there. I'm no longer in that clan, because my account was banned for playing with him. Funny enough, the one who was actually cheating still is not banned
@@SmackForSale well i would say theres a chance you could defend yourself but you knowingly played with a cheater, I dont know if that is worthy of a perma ban or not but i wish you luck, if it makes you feel any better I deleted the game and felt like a new person .
The yap was definitely strong enough to get me interested in watching once I noticed it in the corner. Had to rewind the video a bit to see who was brought.
I made it through 5 minutes of this and had to throw in the towel. More than anything this video illustrates the differences between a TH-camr who is a good communicator, and one who is not! Carry on...
10:41 100% did a garden run and someone soloed the boss with a crappy blue rocket launcher that shot enough rockets to drop my frames to 15 fps… he collected the motes by himself before people could get into the portal. As soon as he killed the boss most of us left except one person who need divinity (it was a div run and we got new people at the boss after struggling) and then we regrouped in orbit and all said what the hell just happened?
@@Xlaws I should've clarified, it "depends". Borderlands for example, ran many times, so it doesn't hurt to mod/cheat things in after awhile. For other games that are PvE with solo/co-op it definitely differs if you're straight up cheating to 1-shot everything or make things "easier" like invincibility. Ones that are leaning on or strictly co-op, then yes, cheating is a skill issue on that side of PvE games
@@Xlaws regardless, this is PvE. If you're strictly doing things solo, mods/cheats are 100% ok imo. If you taking said things into a co-op/multiplayer environment instead, then said person is just bad when others may or want to play legit. In Destiny's case, why even bother cheating in general
The amount of people who didn't hear this guy say he doesn't blame Cross is staggering. It's almost like they only hear what they want to hear or something.
I know he has a big community but I thought we were better than that man. Cmon a witch hunt? We gotta get names and ban them for life. Give em that YAAAHHH
Cross : dont go flaming anyone on socials n leave it to bungie... People in comments : man... that guy who is getting flamed unnecessarily for a month is rude. Better flame him🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
On contest Crota there was a T-posing Titan that was flying around, casting infinite wells of radiance, and using a xenophage that fired celestial golden gun shots.
All bro had to say was, “hey this person is impersonating me. This isn’t my actual account, this is. Can you please try and clear my name if you see this please cross” or something like that 😭
You accidentally revealed why an accused person would attack rather than plead their case. We live in a society where it don't matter how much you beg and plead your case, once you're guilty in the eyes of the public, you're forever guilty. Viper could easily donate a trillion dollars to a cancer charity, but there's going to be one or two people that go "Hey, did you know this guy was cheating at a video game?". What makes it worse is the fact that Cross almost has a million subs, so you know ALOT of people heard the accusations, he has ties to Bungie so it's pretty easy for him to say "Hey guys, this guy here needs to be looked into", and let's face it Bungie ain't exactly known for being precise in their bans... You can ask Aegis all about that. This is why Bungie doesn't want you naming and shaming. More than that though, let's assume Viper was a big name, like Lupo or Shroud, and this caused them to be dropped from their eSports team or whatever. Do you REALLY think Bungie wants to get dragged into a defamation case because some idiot decided to name and shame someone without proof the person was actually involved? It's far easier to to say "Fuck you Cross, you bitch ass piece of shit, how dare you smear my name", instead of saying "Hey Cross, I'm innocent, here's my proof, can you clear this up?" and hoping Cross is a goodguy whose willing to even attempt to clean his mess up.
@@SealFormulaMaster I have no idea how any of what you said tied into it being better/acceptable to act like a child, rather than asking Cross to clear his name while presenting the same proof. If Cross was good enough to let this childish POS flame him for 6 minutes, why the hell wouldn't a calm video claiming his innocents have gone so much farther.
@@SealFormulaMaster idk why tf you mention a "donating a trillion dollars" thing A lot of people guilty of the worst things possibke did donate a lot.. So putting it here in this is stupid.
@@burly-8090 Then you clearly don't know todays society. Would Cross have made this video if Viper simply DM'd him and said "I'm innocent, here's proof"? Likely not. As I said, and you clearly didn't read, it's better to attack than hope. If you attack the person, you're more likely to get a response, and since Cross is making a video, THAT HE'S MONETIZING BY THE WAY, Viper is more likely to get his evidence out there. Viper knows Cross is hawking his PC brand. As for why Cross wouldn't respond to a nicer video, there are plenty of reasons. Firstly, Viper only has 400 or so subs, so it's easy to think Cross wouldn't bother responding. Cross hasn't even deleted the original video or made edits to it, and people are clearly still watching that video. If Cross was such a good guy and wanted to help clear things up, that video would've been taken down, or at least the part where "Viper" is cheating is removed.
@@thisone98 Okay. Jimmy Donaldson, who you might know as Mr Beast, is currently wrapped in alot of scandals because of a person named dogpack404. Mr Beast has donated a ton of money or monetary value to various organizations around the world, yet right now they only things he's known for are these scandals and has companies pull support out all because of the videos dogpack404 made, which cost his charity efforts millions of dollars. That right there proves my point. It does not matter if Viper donated a trillion dollars, all it takes is for one person to say "Hey, this guy is a cheater at a video game" and his name and effort are smeared. It does not matter if Viper gets his name cleared by Cross, it does not matter if he deletes the original video and all traces of it from his channel, it does not matter if Cross himself invites Viper to his clan and plays with him from now until the day Destiny dies, there is a reason we say "The internet never forgets".
Yes I was in an LFG and someone joined and quick-killed a VoG boss and then left, before I had a chance to report, or leave, or kick or anything. IDK why, and I didnt want to be associated with them but happened so fast that I worried I would be associated with them.
I once LFGed a trial of Osiris card, one of the guys that joined my fireteam was a cheater, I didn’t realize it until our 3rd game, i left the party immediately because I didn’t want to get associated with that nonsense.
oh how weird that they discovered the weirdest/sickest people in the community in a GOS LFG raid - GOS community is so bizarre, should probably just ban anyone with multiple GOS clears this past month.
It's really not on you to face a blatant cheater, then do anything more than report that name, much less dig in, find out if they have other names, if they are impersonating someone else, etc etc. And this guy seems upset, which is also fine. Given the circumstances, if he's innocent, and has been getting harassed like this for a month by now, then the situation escalates where other strangers are starting to flame him, showing that whatever framing of him is working...I'd expect him to be upset too. It's a potential misunderstanding that is getting aired, and that's fine. Cross, you're doing pretty much the best thing any player and grownup with a popular channel should do. You reported in the moment, and when this comes up with a decent side to the guy's story, you brought the transparency up and reposted the video for him so the viewers don't continue to give him a hard time for something that's now uncertain. It's in bungie's hands.
Him expecting you to compare and contrast, make a ven diagram and do calculus on every single person you report to make sure it's the right person is insane 😂😂
I called this too, the video you put out of the cheater I went to his TH-cam channel and there was no indication that he was a cheater and that it was someone posing as him.
On day I joined one guy on the D2 LFG while farming master SE, just after I joined, the witness have been defeated and the guy left. I was so confused and then realized it was a hacker
You have to realize that if a youtube as big as Cross shows off someone, then there can and will be people that go after who ever was shown off. It doesn't matter if the youtube said or didn't say to go after someone, as a big youtube you need to be responsible and know that whatever you show, can and will be the target of your audience. For example, if a youtube is eating/drinking someone on camera, even though the youituber in question didn't directly promote or make extreme mention of it, some of the audience will flock to whatever product was shown off. The same can be said for negativity and hate. If a popular streamer/youtuber of a game says something is good or bad, regardless of if it is or not, people will run with that result and make it their truth going forward. Not saying Cross knew what he was doing when he made the original video, but he needs to take accountability if/when he goes over other people/people in the foreground of his content. He can tell his audience to not be shitheads, but he also needs to realise that he holds a lot of power over people in the sense of direction.
You know the weight of your words in your community… telling them not to witch hunt. Offering a platform for the guy to prove himself and leaving it to bungie to decide. Much respect for your integrity and leadership Cross!
A few weeks ago a few ppl of my clan were doing Master KF, and a cheater joined them, one-hitting the Warpriest. Everyone immediately abandoned the fireteam, and we talked to the guy cheating. He said he was sorry, and won't do it again.
It's more of "relevancy" IF anything, but of course, generally nobody like cheaters in any game. Even for how old Destiny is, long running IPs like CoD or Siege still got cheaters as an example
Mainly due to the impersonation aspect. If someone is petty enough to come after you on an online game where you've played honestly to try to get YOU banned that's your account at stake and someone running wild with that name that isn't you. Destiny is an expensive game. People have money and time, and you don't want it to get squandered bc of pettiness.
the most weird thing happened in trials, where we were dominating this 3 stack 3-0 and a guy on their team left, so we were like oh lmao he rage quit... then we saw a reconnect and assumed it was just a dc but it wasnt , another guy with a different acc joined and started spamming super while tping to us then the 2nd guy left and another acc joined and started doing the same thing...... i dont even know how different acc could join in between a trials match
Ok, this guy starting off by calling Cross "petty" for reporting a BLATANT CHEATER is truly baffling... You're telling me you don't report mega cheaters like this when you see them dude? What the actual hell is wrong with you? And then going after Cross at the end again? Brother... No. 🤦
He said he was unhappy with Aztecross because he's been harassed and said it wasn't his fault because Aztecross wasn't aware of the backstory . What are you complaining about
@@Guile_The_Exile Not gonna lie, he made a good case until he went off on Cross and the dude who came from him telling Cross to F off makes me rethink things. Cross did nothing wrong. Nothing that no other streamers hasn't done. Cross didn't send anyone to roast him. This guy is supposed to be a streamer, he needs to grow a thicker skin. Chances are, a month from now, maybe less, Cross won't even remember this dude.
@@Louis-wx1fo he blames Cross for people roasting him since Cross's video. He didn't explain it until now and then goes off on Cross for a completely logical assumption that he was who he said he was.
Fun fact: The Viper is so mysterious a whole episode of GI Joe was dedicated to uncovering him. Turns out it was just some old window cleaner with a German accent.
Cross , I have to admit something about these cheaters which I have to get off my chest ... I play on console 😂 We never have to worry about hackers or cheaters 😂😂😂
We play with my friend legendaryboy every single day he plays on xbox and we are on steam/pc. Destiny 2 has crossplay. He encounters every single cheater that my brother and I do because we are playing together.
You're delusional if you think console doesn't have cheaters. I have a clip of me getting shot through multiple walls in Iron Banner yesterday. They always come out in mass when the new shiny comes out. That new shiny is Tinasha
For those confused as to why cross is being blamed: it is for giving the cheater a platform. Duhviper didn't comment on the situation for a month, but the moment cross mentions the name, calls out the name, it gained huge traction. The cheater's account went from being seen around 50 times a day to 140 THOUSAND times in only three days. Cross is not to blame here, but there is a reason why most TH-camrs blur the names of cheaters: cheaters want attention, and if you give it to them, they are going to keep doing what they do. Of course, not everyone handles cheaters the same way, and that is completely fair, but this whole situation proves that a simple blur can go a long way (even if the stream viewers still see it, or if any psycho looks up match logs). Is cross at fault here? Of course not. Is he partially at fault for skyrocketing this situation from 0 to 100? Evidently so. There's a lesson to learn here, and I hope that people don't get blinded by "My favorite TH-cam man said he is right so he MUST be right" or "A guy who has been harassed has no reason to be angry". You are likely not a toddler, so use that noggin' of yours for good. Edit: Of course, this COULD be a publicity stunt, but if it is, then by golly is it stupidly obtuse and complex (and makes Duhviper's performance Oscar worthy).
I have an issue with him keeping silent for a month, even with the guy harassing him. No streamer I have watched have ever kept silent about a cheater harassing them, even if it's just to troll them, not mentioning any names, for laughs with their chat.
@@katrinamoriarty Maybe it wasn't as much as an issue UNTIL Cross saw it and made it public? As OP said, cheaters just want attention. Viper probably realized nothing would really happen to his account if there was no traction gained, but Cross did in fact boost the coverage on the situation. A blessing and a curse then.
@@kristiansimon7511 The guy was harassing OP enough to make fake accounts in his name, cheating. How does that not become an issue? How is that not reported to Bungie as harassment?
@@katrinamoriarty If Weight-Gate can exist for 6 years, and Bungie HAS that information at their fingertips, and can be overlooked for that long, then the question that needs to be asked is this: what WON'T Bungie do to fix their GAME? Their PLAYER BASE? Their CODE OF CONDUCT? When we can sit down and have those conversations...then maybe people will stop shying away at issues like these.
I've had a cheater join my lfg for Master VoG a long while back. He just straight up said he was using cheats and proceeded to fire an exotic (I think it was Xeno?) at insane RPM. Despite having cheats, he was ass and kept failing the encounter challenges and we kept wiping as a result. So yes, I have encountered at least one cheater via lfg, I may have came across more, but they either were stealthy or didn't do anything crazy for me to notice at all.
I just find it odd that someone would go try to slander such a small TH-cam channel and the viper is in a clan with other cheaters like it’s still suspicious after seeing the response
Bro, I have played against Viper in trials, and he was in a 3 stack with 2 other guys blatantly cheating. Not as bad as the first guy in this video, but I'm still obviously using cheats. So even if he isn't cheating himself, he's still a piece of shit.
Bro people have literally nothing better to do other than cause problems like this? This is one of the reasons that Destiny 2 is having a lot of dissatisfaction alongside its merits. Both Cross and Viper seem to have been done dirty.
Good lord yall have literally zero compassion or understanding. This is a small youtuber who does in fact sound young. It takes two second to look at his video where people blatantly say Aztecross brought me here, and proceed to flame him. Though Aztecross is not at fault yall are stupid to act like Duhviper has no reason to be mad. Dude gets flamed for something he didnt do, proves his innocence just to be flamed. It doesn’t matter if you dont like how he sounds or his reaction, you toxic people are the problem. Now I cant speak for Aztecross myself but if I saw my viewers saying the things they say in this comment section, I wouldn’t be proud of them. The guy is emotional which is his right to be, he obviously sounds young so hopefully he learns to present his case in a more calm manner. I was emotional too when I was young like most people. TLDR, yall need to grow tf up.
@@ratthew2843 1) if you are going to stream, grow some thicker skin. Not everyone is going to like you and/or your content. 2) retaliation doesn't make you any better. Move on, like everyone else does. 3) Super professional to tell someone off like he did 🙄. Cross was incredibly professional up to the guy who came into his stream.
I was doing a flawless deep stone and a guy hid he was cheating till third encounter finished. We only found out when Taniks died during the stun post third encounter so now I have to go do another one
DuhViper: “Fuck aztecross”
Aztecross: “why’d he say fuck me for?”
😂
Fr the guy might actually be innocent but he's not helping his case in the grand scheme of things here. Ultimately we just need to leave it to Bungie to handle these things, but in the meantime he shouldn't be a dick about the whole situation. I guarantee Aztecross wants nothing to do with this whole situation and yet Viper is making a mountain out of a mole hill against him.
Yeah you have to understand where cross is coming from. It’s not crosses fault someone’s trying to frame the guy. Cross is doing the best he can with the situation, and hearing out the guys defense of himself, which would amplify the issue he’s dealing with and Bungie might catch on and stop themselves from falsely banning him
Nut shelled it from my understanding, nice share bro... "👍"... @@TyeJak588
Well hes innocent and people are going after him 🤷
@toothlesshawkins4522
Cross managing to stumble into this random beef is amazing
its like stumbling on igon and bayle
it aint stumble. the hacker LITERALLY brought it to aztec's stream. in the attempt to frame this guy, they exposed themselves.
Not gonna lie the evidence kinda making sense right now. He's cooking
Cooking Vienna sausages
@@vishiousbacon😅😅😅
Do you normally lie?
It really is haha.
Ironic this dude deciding to snipe Cross to get Viper banned ends with him just getting more attention to himself and probably IP banned eventually
They don't IP ban anymore. No one has for a decade, as it doesn't work since ISPs do not typically provide static IP anymore.
ip banning doesnt do anything anyways
Ip banning doesnt work lol people just get a vpn and then they're good they do however get hardware banned but most of them sell cheats so they can afford a new pc so they dont care
@@frostmourne1986 exactly. It's helped me out for awhile lol
Needs to be hardware
This is some middle school drama
Dude just listen to the guys voice lol. Says it all
That's all the game's got left, fam.
right its very weird, like who would care this much?
Try hards
When does cross respond to all the Eggplants he’s cheated me out of?😗
You'll be fine cupcake. Gamba better. 🗿🗿🦍🦍👺👺👹👹
Skill issue
When you gamba better. 🗿🗿
We polled about UNFAIR IT WAS … HE FUDGED THE NUMBERS 😂 … dawn blade won can’t change my mind
We polled about how UNFAIR IT WAS … HE FUDGED THE NUMBERS 😂 … dawn blade won can’t change my mind
Believe it or not, but there is an entire GOS cheater community farming clears/carries. It confuses me to this day why anyone even thinks about cheating in garden, but I guess I am just not braindead enough.
I could believe it, I LFG'd via the Discord a lot for the red borders and I saw loads of cheaters / net limiters it was baffling
Cheating in this game in general makes zero fuckin sense. 90% of content in the game is so easy it just doesn't require it.
I mean, more than half the D2 community can barely count and read a clock soooo
I can believe it. Idk honestly the human mind is strange.
I was about to say, 90% of the playerbase can't stand on a plate so I can see why lfgs cheat 😂.@@traviszane5334
I still won't do it, but I've beaten my head on that wall many times
My favorite part of this video is how butthurt the cheaters got for rightfully being reported lmao
Literally 🤣🤣
It's only a crime if you get caught. Don't be mad because you couldn't hide it better. Lol
@@theSixPathsOfTrains
Still a crime.
Feel like this could've been an email.
Yup instead he whines and rants about it without getting straight to the point, listening to his anoying voice really wanna makes u smash the monitor somehow.
@@kajanjohnson4664 I wasn't doing a hate comment towards anyone. I'm not on your side here. Get help and stop hating on people you don't know on the internet.
@@dragonzlucas Stop trying to censor his opinion of people. I'm not on your side here. Get help and stop hating on people who share their opinion on the internet.
@@kajanjohnson4664you chose to watch the video… and now you’re whining about his voice?? While complaining about whining 😂😂😂
i was thinking the same thing
That man said “I WILL CLEAR MY NAME BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE!!” 😂
I had a master oryx where some dude basically one shot him and started trying to make it a big joke
I had something similar but back in D1 and this random pretty much soloed the entire encounter from the platforms, sisters and oryx and made it seem like it was normal.
maybe hes just good at the game
Was farming oryx a few weeks ago when it was featured, guy said don’t worry about dps I got it just do mechanics. So dps starts, he insta one shots him. Nobody asked dude to do this and he immediately left after that one run. Shit reminded me of the original MW2 rank boosting on those JTAG lobbies. Wild.
Happens all the time in raids. You join on a Boss CP to get your pinnacle and some rank 2 account is in there one shotting the boss. Just make sure to leave as soon as you see it so you don't get the loot because cheating and playing with cheaters is for f4gs
Yeah alot of people doing that on lfg for Pantheon
I'm just confused how Aztecross is to blame for this, if I saw correctly all Aztecross himself did was report him in game. So not too sure what the warlock main here did.
Even he said he doesn't think Cross did it intentionally, but every youtuber has those fans that are shitty. Plus, even just a few ppl harassing a smaller youtuber can be alot to those not used to it.
He's not responsible in the sense that he directly called for a witch hunt, but his actions directed attention to vipers channel.
Like, he could have simply reported the cheater, but he actively brought attention to his channel by saying, "He's got a youtube channel? Duhviper on youtube? This is how he advertises his youtube channel?" He mentioned youtube or his channel 3 times, then clicked on his profile, hovered over the name and said "Look at him, an epic gamer."
He didn't DIRECTLY call a witch hunt, but bringing that much attention to the name and heavily emphasizing the youtube channel didn't help. If anything, it comes across as a *wink wink nudge nudge* type call to arms.
It's a grey area of "threat" sort of like "It'd be a shame if something happens to you tonight"
I've seen a lot of streamers do the same. While Cross can tell his chat not to do something, it's ultimately up to the people in chat. All Cross can do is say not to. But he's not their parent or the cops. He can't actually prevent them from expressing their feelings.
@@torvasdh Eh. Like Aztecross says, it ain't exactly a rare occurrence for people to openly advertise their cheating service. This only happened because the cheater was in fact, a cunt and tried to do a framing job. Aztecross did what any other player would do upon seeing a cheater, look at their profile. It ain't exactly a wink wink nudge nudge call to arms, he's just reacting to the info given lol.
Not exactly his fault lmfao.
@@torvasdh As far as he knew that was him cheating. Sorry but I don’t feel bad that he did that
I had someone matchmake into a Corrupted strike with a rapidfire Xenophage and I managed to keep grabbing the balls and extending the strike for about 2 hours lmao. They never left for some reason and tried to plead w me to stop delaying
“I’m doing my part” 😂
Lol that is so good
lmao that is so awesome..
if you want to risk your life, take a drink every time the kid says the word "interesting" haha
If this guy says "That's very interesting" one more time I'm gonna headbutt my monitor.
That is very interesting
@@callmeriggy I find it interesting that you find this interesting
@@leecummings2949 I N T E R E S T I N G
@@leecummings2949I find it Interesting that you find it interesting that he finds this interesting
And we can all relate why the cheater hated him so much ,he is really insufferable to listen to.
That ending
"Lickith thy ass"
Bruh
PURE GOLD😂😂
I jus find crazy how battle eye refuses to detect this hacking even Fortnite had a better battle eye than this that gets cheater ban ned on the spot
I was actually playing a match once and a cheater killed me. After reporting and spectating him walking completely immortal through the floor with perfect aim he gets banned mid game. A cheater getting banned mid game. Destiny could never lmao.
Bungie and other devs have said before that they ban in waves every few months to prevent the cheat makers from knowing what version of cheats flagged the anti-cheat.
It also doesn't help that when someone gets banned it doesn't at least tell them what ban-able category they got; harassment, cheating, evasion, etc.
If they did that, then they could probably do more frequent ban waves if some cheaters had a different offense that could be used so it doesn't seem like the cheats got detected and potentially delay any new cheats.
It would be great if there was a way to submit clips of blatant cheaters - like the ones shown in the vid - to a Bungie team; likely it would require a form to be filled out to include the cheaters Bungie ID to help filter reports and prevent misidentifications, and the reporters Bungie ID and a link to Post Game Report Card to prevent false reports.
Because battle eye isnt updated very often but the cheats are specifically updated to bybass the anticheats
Oh yeah Fortnight bans all cheaters!! For the uninformed, Bungie and Fortnight both don't own their anti-cheats. They pay another company. @@lordgrub12345
plot twist smack is duh vipers alt account
the guy who's actually is hacking his name is smackfrsale he removed him self from his own clan which they have the same accounts of cheaters
It's not me lmao, it's operator augment, who is #3 on raid report. I let the cheaters in my clan and in my fireteam. It was only intended to be done in private lobbies. Operator augment invites me to that gos which i didn't know was an lfg, and it kinda just went from there. I'm no longer in that clan, because my account was banned for playing with him. Funny enough, the one who was actually cheating still is not banned
@@SmackForSale who get cheats to use a private lobbies ..like who do you expect to believe that BS ...you're scum ..stfu ..
@@SmackForSale well i would say theres a chance you could defend yourself but you knowingly played with a cheater, I dont know if that is worthy of a perma ban or not but i wish you luck, if it makes you feel any better I deleted the game and felt like a new person .
i just watch destiny content as a reminder why i wont ever be getting it again, its fun looking from the outside in
@SmackForSale everyone farming cheats smack no need to lie brother
Gonna start telling folks to "shine my mf shoes" when i prove them wrong 😂 it's got SMD energy but without actually saying it
“Guys hard man “ lol I love cross man !!! Dude always got me cracking up 😂
Cracked me up too! It was the same energy as telling a toddler that he's strong for lifting a bag of tangerines.
The random arknights in the corner of the video 🤣
For a moment I got confused and wondered if I let the game on lol
@tonygaiden96 lmao me too, I was like, wait I still had arknights open??
my friend was yapping soo much I added arknights to stimulate people to keep it interesting
The yap was definitely strong enough to get me interested in watching once I noticed it in the corner. Had to rewind the video a bit to see who was brought.
@@shaddow2022 I was gonna pull but i'm broke from walter 😂😭🥲
I made it through 5 minutes of this and had to throw in the towel. More than anything this video illustrates the differences between a TH-camr who is a good communicator, and one who is not! Carry on...
Holiday drinking game: drink every time Viper says interesting. You won’t make it through the video 😂
this is youtube in its purest form.
This would honestly make for a pretty good twist in a thriller novel.
This is 100% the norm in D2 pc lfg discord with GOS, GOS is THE GENUINE CESSPOOL of cheaters, so many netlimiters its crazy.
"so we were doing a gos" yeah it all makes sense now
10:41 100% did a garden run and someone soloed the boss with a crappy blue rocket launcher that shot enough rockets to drop my frames to 15 fps… he collected the motes by himself before people could get into the portal. As soon as he killed the boss most of us left except one person who need divinity (it was a div run and we got new people at the boss after struggling) and then we regrouped in orbit and all said what the hell just happened?
I'm so glad I gave this video a chance. The plot got so thick, it makes peanut butter look like water.
I have had cheaters join on my team in Crucible Strikes and Gambit and I leave soon as I realize or report.
the EFFORT people go through to cheat and drag others down with them it's so sad for them.
Imagine cheating in pve in general. I don't understand why you'd even want to do that unless you're incredibly lazy.
In Destiny case, cheating in PvE is such a massive skill issue. I'd understand totally in actual PvE focus games though
@@soksocks cheating in any pve game is a skill issue
@@Xlaws I should've clarified, it "depends". Borderlands for example, ran many times, so it doesn't hurt to mod/cheat things in after awhile. For other games that are PvE with solo/co-op it definitely differs if you're straight up cheating to 1-shot everything or make things "easier" like invincibility. Ones that are leaning on or strictly co-op, then yes, cheating is a skill issue on that side of PvE games
@@soksocks yes sure even tho modding is technically cheating is different that netlimiting/wallhack/aimbot
@@Xlaws regardless, this is PvE. If you're strictly doing things solo, mods/cheats are 100% ok imo. If you taking said things into a co-op/multiplayer environment instead, then said person is just bad when others may or want to play legit. In Destiny's case, why even bother cheating in general
The amount of people who didn't hear this guy say he doesn't blame Cross is staggering. It's almost like they only hear what they want to hear or something.
☝️☝️☝️
Trump voters
Well he said both. He said he was pissed at Cross for starting a witch hunt and then he said he didn't blame him.
Didn't he say both
Maybe it was the last message in his video.
I know he has a big community but I thought we were better than that man. Cmon a witch hunt? We gotta get names and ban them for life. Give em that YAAAHHH
So witch hunt the witch hunters?🤔
@ lol no just ban them from the stream and from the community. They can go do that shit in another community 😂
@ I mean I see your point, there’d be people that would go after those people cuz as sad as it is, some people just have no life 😂
@@Bastion0418 💜
Nahh the witch hunt is fun.
Aztecross lawyer says don't witch hunt
Cross : dont go flaming anyone on socials n leave it to bungie...
People in comments : man... that guy who is getting flamed unnecessarily for a month is rude. Better flame him🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Considering we know Bungie watches Cross's videos, I'm interested in seeing if Smack gets banned now on his main.
Take a shot everytime you hear “interesting” xD
On contest Crota there was a T-posing Titan that was flying around, casting infinite wells of radiance, and using a xenophage that fired celestial golden gun shots.
8:23 mf demon sneaked out lol
I'm crying 😂
ngl this duhviper guy sounds annoying asf
Baby Tate energy
Absolutely
@@Anonymous-m9f9jyou’re the ☝🏽🤓 typa guy huh?
All bro had to say was, “hey this person is impersonating me. This isn’t my actual account, this is. Can you please try and clear my name if you see this please cross” or something like that 😭
You accidentally revealed why an accused person would attack rather than plead their case. We live in a society where it don't matter how much you beg and plead your case, once you're guilty in the eyes of the public, you're forever guilty. Viper could easily donate a trillion dollars to a cancer charity, but there's going to be one or two people that go "Hey, did you know this guy was cheating at a video game?". What makes it worse is the fact that Cross almost has a million subs, so you know ALOT of people heard the accusations, he has ties to Bungie so it's pretty easy for him to say "Hey guys, this guy here needs to be looked into", and let's face it Bungie ain't exactly known for being precise in their bans... You can ask Aegis all about that.
This is why Bungie doesn't want you naming and shaming. More than that though, let's assume Viper was a big name, like Lupo or Shroud, and this caused them to be dropped from their eSports team or whatever. Do you REALLY think Bungie wants to get dragged into a defamation case because some idiot decided to name and shame someone without proof the person was actually involved?
It's far easier to to say "Fuck you Cross, you bitch ass piece of shit, how dare you smear my name", instead of saying "Hey Cross, I'm innocent, here's my proof, can you clear this up?" and hoping Cross is a goodguy whose willing to even attempt to clean his mess up.
@@SealFormulaMaster I have no idea how any of what you said tied into it being better/acceptable to act like a child, rather than asking Cross to clear his name while presenting the same proof. If Cross was good enough to let this childish POS flame him for 6 minutes, why the hell wouldn't a calm video claiming his innocents have gone so much farther.
@@SealFormulaMaster
idk why tf you mention a "donating a trillion dollars" thing
A lot of people guilty of the worst things possibke did donate a lot..
So putting it here in this is stupid.
@@burly-8090 Then you clearly don't know todays society. Would Cross have made this video if Viper simply DM'd him and said "I'm innocent, here's proof"? Likely not. As I said, and you clearly didn't read, it's better to attack than hope. If you attack the person, you're more likely to get a response, and since Cross is making a video, THAT HE'S MONETIZING BY THE WAY, Viper is more likely to get his evidence out there. Viper knows Cross is hawking his PC brand.
As for why Cross wouldn't respond to a nicer video, there are plenty of reasons. Firstly, Viper only has 400 or so subs, so it's easy to think Cross wouldn't bother responding. Cross hasn't even deleted the original video or made edits to it, and people are clearly still watching that video. If Cross was such a good guy and wanted to help clear things up, that video would've been taken down, or at least the part where "Viper" is cheating is removed.
@@thisone98 Okay. Jimmy Donaldson, who you might know as Mr Beast, is currently wrapped in alot of scandals because of a person named dogpack404. Mr Beast has donated a ton of money or monetary value to various organizations around the world, yet right now they only things he's known for are these scandals and has companies pull support out all because of the videos dogpack404 made, which cost his charity efforts millions of dollars. That right there proves my point. It does not matter if Viper donated a trillion dollars, all it takes is for one person to say "Hey, this guy is a cheater at a video game" and his name and effort are smeared. It does not matter if Viper gets his name cleared by Cross, it does not matter if he deletes the original video and all traces of it from his channel, it does not matter if Cross himself invites Viper to his clan and plays with him from now until the day Destiny dies, there is a reason we say "The internet never forgets".
Yes I was in an LFG and someone joined and quick-killed a VoG boss and then left, before I had a chance to report, or leave, or kick or anything. IDK why, and I didnt want to be associated with them but happened so fast that I worried I would be associated with them.
What's wild to me is straight up blatant Trials cheaters. You have to buy the most current expansion to play as it's no longer F2P.
@@beatdownBane what's wild to me is people cheating during mayhem. I've seen some do it lol
@@katrinamoriarty Cheating in mayhem is nasty work
Feel like i just watched a very DUMB high school presentation for " how to get caught cheating " 😂😂😂😂😂😂 the way he cusses lmao 😂
If I hear "Here's the funny thing" again, I'm gonna scream. lol
I once LFGed a trial of Osiris card, one of the guys that joined my fireteam was a cheater, I didn’t realize it until our 3rd game, i left the party immediately because I didn’t want to get associated with that nonsense.
oh how weird that they discovered the weirdest/sickest people in the community in a GOS LFG raid - GOS community is so bizarre, should probably just ban anyone with multiple GOS clears this past month.
The random Arknights at 10:00 have me wondering when the Destiny 2 and Arknights collab will happen
I don't think it will happen sadly.
It's really not on you to face a blatant cheater, then do anything more than report that name, much less dig in, find out if they have other names, if they are impersonating someone else, etc etc.
And this guy seems upset, which is also fine. Given the circumstances, if he's innocent, and has been getting harassed like this for a month by now, then the situation escalates where other strangers are starting to flame him, showing that whatever framing of him is working...I'd expect him to be upset too.
It's a potential misunderstanding that is getting aired, and that's fine. Cross, you're doing pretty much the best thing any player and grownup with a popular channel should do. You reported in the moment, and when this comes up with a decent side to the guy's story, you brought the transparency up and reposted the video for him so the viewers don't continue to give him a hard time for something that's now uncertain.
It's in bungie's hands.
That dude did himself no favors coming in sounding like a tantruming toddler. But yeah 100%, Cross did the mature thing, through and through.
Sounds exactly like the kind of tale a cheater would spin.
Him expecting you to compare and contrast, make a ven diagram and do calculus on every single person you report to make sure it's the right person is insane 😂😂
I called this too, the video you put out of the cheater I went to his TH-cam channel and there was no indication that he was a cheater and that it was someone posing as him.
Duh Viper sounds like a hyperventilating seven year-old trying to explain to his mom that it really wasn't him that ate all the cookies, jesus
okay unc
Haha, I'm dead! Spot on take
i mean he is prob pissed tf off
I think he's telling the truth, but like you pointed out, he went about it in the asshole way.
13:59 LET HIM COOK
On day I joined one guy on the D2 LFG while farming master SE, just after I joined, the witness have been defeated and the guy left. I was so confused and then realized it was a hacker
You didn't start a witch hunt, the guy is crazy for saying that
You have to realize that if a youtube as big as Cross shows off someone, then there can and will be people that go after who ever was shown off. It doesn't matter if the youtube said or didn't say to go after someone, as a big youtube you need to be responsible and know that whatever you show, can and will be the target of your audience.
For example, if a youtube is eating/drinking someone on camera, even though the youituber in question didn't directly promote or make extreme mention of it, some of the audience will flock to whatever product was shown off. The same can be said for negativity and hate. If a popular streamer/youtuber of a game says something is good or bad, regardless of if it is or not, people will run with that result and make it their truth going forward.
Not saying Cross knew what he was doing when he made the original video, but he needs to take accountability if/when he goes over other people/people in the foreground of his content. He can tell his audience to not be shitheads, but he also needs to realise that he holds a lot of power over people in the sense of direction.
@dushbig5628 I ain't reading all that shit.
@@Ecoxiss Then don't. Not my fault you lack an attention span sufficient enough for something that basic.
@@DushBig Still too long, try again
@@Ecoxiss Skill issue.
You know the weight of your words in your community… telling them not to witch hunt. Offering a platform for the guy to prove himself and leaving it to bungie to decide. Much respect for your integrity and leadership Cross!
What level of unemployment is trolling to this extent for a whole month?
A few weeks ago a few ppl of my clan were doing Master KF, and a cheater joined them, one-hitting the Warpriest. Everyone immediately abandoned the fireteam, and we talked to the guy cheating. He said he was sorry, and won't do it again.
At this point in the life of Destiny, why is this a big deal??
It's more of "relevancy" IF anything, but of course, generally nobody like cheaters in any game. Even for how old Destiny is, long running IPs like CoD or Siege still got cheaters as an example
Mainly due to the impersonation aspect. If someone is petty enough to come after you on an online game where you've played honestly to try to get YOU banned that's your account at stake and someone running wild with that name that isn't you. Destiny is an expensive game. People have money and time, and you don't want it to get squandered bc of pettiness.
i was once on the moon to go to the master lost sector and there was a cheater flying around throwing nova mobs every.0000001 seconds.
Jake has cheaters use his name all the time as well
Gambit watching a titan use a blue sniper as an SMG
While their are awful people in the GOS community, this guy comes from the same awful community. This could all just be him covering his ass.
the most weird thing happened in trials, where we were dominating this 3 stack 3-0 and a guy on their team left,
so we were like oh lmao he rage quit... then we saw a reconnect and assumed it was just a dc
but it wasnt , another guy with a different acc joined and started spamming super while tping to us
then the 2nd guy left and another acc joined and started doing the same thing......
i dont even know how different acc could join in between a trials match
Plot twist: He’s actually Smack and he’s pleading with himself and ignoring himself when trying to call himself
Anyone that says "can you join voice chat for a min?" is guilty in my book
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was all part of some publicity stunt, but idk
Cheating is cheating and should always be reported and any supporting evidence should be reported and sent to Bungie.
Ok, this guy starting off by calling Cross "petty" for reporting a BLATANT CHEATER is truly baffling... You're telling me you don't report mega cheaters like this when you see them dude? What the actual hell is wrong with you? And then going after Cross at the end again? Brother... No. 🤦
He said he was unhappy with Aztecross because he's been harassed and said it wasn't his fault because Aztecross wasn't aware of the backstory . What are you complaining about
@@Guile_The_Exile Not gonna lie, he made a good case until he went off on Cross and the dude who came from him telling Cross to F off makes me rethink things. Cross did nothing wrong. Nothing that no other streamers hasn't done. Cross didn't send anyone to roast him. This guy is supposed to be a streamer, he needs to grow a thicker skin. Chances are, a month from now, maybe less, Cross won't even remember this dude.
@@Louis-wx1fo he blames Cross for people roasting him since Cross's video. He didn't explain it until now and then goes off on Cross for a completely logical assumption that he was who he said he was.
he called the guy who’s impersonating him petty are you dense????
He's calling the guy impersonating him petty💀
Fun fact: The Viper is so mysterious a whole episode of GI Joe was dedicated to uncovering him. Turns out it was just some old window cleaner with a German accent.
God cheaters when they play the victim card is so cringe
The least shocking part of all this is that it links back to Garden.
Cross , I have to admit something about these cheaters which I have to get off my chest ... I play on console 😂 We never have to worry about hackers or cheaters 😂😂😂
right?😂 thats y pvp is so much better on console. literally no cheaters lol just sweats
Never seen one XD
It must be a wild experience
We play with my friend legendaryboy every single day he plays on xbox and we are on steam/pc. Destiny 2 has crossplay. He encounters every single cheater that my brother and I do because we are playing together.
@@harveyhouk775 You can turn off crossplay
You're delusional if you think console doesn't have cheaters. I have a clip of me getting shot through multiple walls in Iron Banner yesterday. They always come out in mass when the new shiny comes out.
That new shiny is Tinasha
I joined an FF group doing Garden of Salvation boss and as I spawned in this dude kicked off the encounter and "beat" 20 seconds later lol.
In before the thotbots!
Sadly not brother
@@OxyDoesItdang it!!
lawyer up. youve stunted this mans career growth
This is why Bungie originally said they would ban anyone who made videos about cheaters...
"tries to 👹👹👹'PLEAD' 👹👹👹 his innocence"
For those confused as to why cross is being blamed: it is for giving the cheater a platform. Duhviper didn't comment on the situation for a month, but the moment cross mentions the name, calls out the name, it gained huge traction. The cheater's account went from being seen around 50 times a day to 140 THOUSAND times in only three days. Cross is not to blame here, but there is a reason why most TH-camrs blur the names of cheaters: cheaters want attention, and if you give it to them, they are going to keep doing what they do. Of course, not everyone handles cheaters the same way, and that is completely fair, but this whole situation proves that a simple blur can go a long way (even if the stream viewers still see it, or if any psycho looks up match logs).
Is cross at fault here? Of course not. Is he partially at fault for skyrocketing this situation from 0 to 100? Evidently so.
There's a lesson to learn here, and I hope that people don't get blinded by "My favorite TH-cam man said he is right so he MUST be right" or "A guy who has been harassed has no reason to be angry". You are likely not a toddler, so use that noggin' of yours for good.
Edit: Of course, this COULD be a publicity stunt, but if it is, then by golly is it stupidly obtuse and complex (and makes Duhviper's performance Oscar worthy).
☝️
I have an issue with him keeping silent for a month, even with the guy harassing him. No streamer I have watched have ever kept silent about a cheater harassing them, even if it's just to troll them, not mentioning any names, for laughs with their chat.
@@katrinamoriarty Maybe it wasn't as much as an issue UNTIL Cross saw it and made it public? As OP said, cheaters just want attention. Viper probably realized nothing would really happen to his account if there was no traction gained, but Cross did in fact boost the coverage on the situation. A blessing and a curse then.
@@kristiansimon7511 The guy was harassing OP enough to make fake accounts in his name, cheating. How does that not become an issue? How is that not reported to Bungie as harassment?
@@katrinamoriarty If Weight-Gate can exist for 6 years, and Bungie HAS that information at their fingertips, and can be overlooked for that long, then the question that needs to be asked is this: what WON'T Bungie do to fix their GAME? Their PLAYER BASE? Their CODE OF CONDUCT? When we can sit down and have those conversations...then maybe people will stop shying away at issues like these.
I've had a cheater join my lfg for Master VoG a long while back. He just straight up said he was using cheats and proceeded to fire an exotic (I think it was Xeno?) at insane RPM. Despite having cheats, he was ass and kept failing the encounter challenges and we kept wiping as a result. So yes, I have encountered at least one cheater via lfg, I may have came across more, but they either were stealthy or didn't do anything crazy for me to notice at all.
So glad Duh Viper is able to clear his name. I’ve been a fan of his for about 6 months. Thanks for putting him on Cross!
Duh Viper acts like a petty middle schooler. I've been a Duh Viper hater for about 6 hours.
Grab your torches and pitchforks we're going on a withchunt!!!
I just find it odd that someone would go try to slander such a small TH-cam channel and the viper is in a clan with other cheaters like it’s still suspicious after seeing the response
Bro, I have played against Viper in trials, and he was in a 3 stack with 2 other guys blatantly cheating. Not as bad as the first guy in this video, but I'm still obviously using cheats. So even if he isn't cheating himself, he's still a piece of shit.
Its confusing, the real duhviper isn't in a clan with cheaters. The fake one is.
Ppl are A-Holes and you'll never know when you will encounter them
from my understanding the real duhviper wasn't in the clan with them, they were both imposters. duhvipers in-game name is not that afaik
Cheaters can be some of the most petty people ever, I can definitely see one going out of their way screw someone who got them banned.
I had a cheater join my nightfall one time. He put down 6 wells of radiance on top of the raid banner. It was impressive.
Bro people have literally nothing better to do other than cause problems like this? This is one of the reasons that Destiny 2 is having a lot of dissatisfaction alongside its merits. Both Cross and Viper seem to have been done dirty.
Bro I got accused for wall shooting by a guy named jolt when I used my sniper in gambit invading his team
My man desperately needs to go outside, and find a woman 😂
the dudes voice made me think of the Riddler from The Batman
Honestly if he wasn't innocent he wouldn't go to such length just to prove a point
Because they empty inside had me weak. Answer of answers. Only thing is I'm empty and still play legit 😂😂
The crazy stance against pve cheating followed up with the petty ass framing. These two deserve each other
Just played against Smack on control, he was zooming around nuking everyone with a grenade launcher from the start of the match. What a loser.
Yea it’s obvious you yourself didn’t harass them yet fans will always be crazy lmao
Im glad Cross was there to translate for me
Good lord yall have literally zero compassion or understanding. This is a small youtuber who does in fact sound young. It takes two second to look at his video where people blatantly say Aztecross brought me here, and proceed to flame him. Though Aztecross is not at fault yall are stupid to act like Duhviper has no reason to be mad. Dude gets flamed for something he didnt do, proves his innocence just to be flamed. It doesn’t matter if you dont like how he sounds or his reaction, you toxic people are the problem. Now I cant speak for Aztecross myself but if I saw my viewers saying the things they say in this comment section, I wouldn’t be proud of them. The guy is emotional which is his right to be, he obviously sounds young so hopefully he learns to present his case in a more calm manner. I was emotional too when I was young like most people. TLDR, yall need to grow tf up.
@@ratthew2843 1) if you are going to stream, grow some thicker skin. Not everyone is going to like you and/or your content. 2) retaliation doesn't make you any better. Move on, like everyone else does. 3) Super professional to tell someone off like he did 🙄. Cross was incredibly professional up to the guy who came into his stream.
@@katrinamoriarty 10000000000000000000% agree with point 1
No he's just a whiney kid
I was doing a flawless deep stone and a guy hid he was cheating till third encounter finished. We only found out when Taniks died during the stun post third encounter so now I have to go do another one