I still don't know enough about this issue to make a very good comment about it, and maybe I am way off topic here, but one thing I find pretty awful is that big companies are pushing token ' representation ' because it is a marketing buzzword right now and they just want to bump up quarterly profits. Pretending to care about people or any kind of social issue in order to increase sales also seems pretty evil to me. I enjoy your videos even if I am a long way off from understanding all the implications of the things discussed, looking forward to the next one.
As a white male I get called names when I try to discus this. I love games like Harlem Unbound that is based in Harlem in the 1920s and I keep trying to put the idea in game companies heads to make something based on the Indian subcontinent cultures. The orcs argument has always made me mad. I go to lots of events and would love to meet up with you someday.
@@derekburge5294 Arrows of Indra is by The RPG Pundit. In that game, he believes he introduced the first Trans character in gaming. Yet they call him a RACIST BIGOT! He has to hold his Hispanic-ness as a shield to deflect crap meant for White people!
uh huh. and the people I see pushing this agenda of race representation, identity representation, PRONOUN representation is coming from the people who are demanding it. who are the narcissists? "The narcissism of small differences leads to the most boring conformity." TODAY, (circa 2023) we live in a minority exaggerated society that obsesses over small differences , a.k.a. "MICRO AGGRESSION" and the perfection of the art of BEING OFFENDED. These are people who use terms like "cisgender" as something they are automatically offended by... these are deliberately self-conditioned to be "triggered" by their own use of the word that declares "you are who you are AT BIRTH so live with you as you are". This is offensive why? Because people wanna pretend to be other. They feel other. They are told "you must become" , rather than, "your a kid. hive it time. when you're older it will be more clear." In RPGs we legitimately pretend to be someone/something e are not in reality. After the session of fun, we remain who we are before the game. Should a game be bent over backward and altered in content and presentation to be "INCLUSIVE" and "SENSITIVE" to the woke ideologies of identity nonsense and gender diaspora? I would thing this would alter the substance of the game , unnecessarily encumber the GM, force a restriction of an eggshell covered floor for the players, and generally make the game no longer an RPG, but a session of sensitivity training practice of political correctness. or the elevation of moral posturing over facts. And folks. THAT ain't fun. If I'm running a game all about the struggle of being a gay, black/chinese/latino/a cross dressing PI the 20's or medieval times for a group of trans-minded people then ok... still isn't gonna be fun, but maybe the pc sensitive trigger wokesters will be satisfied with the effort to conform my cis reality to their fantasy. what about race? Same situation. although more realistically achievable. But including people of color is no big deal for me and everyone I k now or have gamed with. The REALITY of race in ,say, the 1920s... play the reality in the set environment, look for opportunities to role play fun and advantages/ If you can't have fun with it, maybe it's the wrong game for you.
The most egregious thing to me is the hypocrisy of it all. All of this representation stuff is said to be done in the name of altruism, empathy, compassion etc. But it's really just thinly veiled bullying, nerd bashing, apathy, and narcissism. They don't really care about hobby, they don't really care how patronizing and tokenizing they are (in fact, it's by design) They're just here because it's popular right now and they can use it as yet another vehicle for their narcissism, until they crash it into a wall and unceremoniously discard and abandon tabletop for another thing to hijack and to break in their name of their ego.
I’m 52 years old. I’ve been gaming since 1980. What is happening now in Gaming is a phenomenon that happens every time the “ mainstream” decides suddenly that they want something they have previously derided. When I was a young man, I was often bullied and chastised for liking Skateboarding, and various genres of music, and tabletop gaming. Guess what? When Punk got popular, in the 90’s, the core fan base was “blamed” for “ keeping others out” and “ Gatekeeping”. Skateboarding, same thing. It’s also happening right now with Comic Books. Now, it’s gaming. These weak people cannot just discover something and enjoy it. They have to tear it down, destroy anyone who was already there, and make it “ Theirs”. It’s the same reason people lie about having been into something they are just learning about “ forever” . They feel a need to “win”. To like something or do something “Better” than everyone else. Since they can’t travel time, and be there at the beginning, they have a need to be a HERO, and take the thing from it’s Evil, oppressive keepers and make it their own, by excluding others and being exactly what they claim to hate. Humans are largely Simple minded and easily manipulated. I’ve found that the best thing to do is wait. Nowadays the wait times are short. Television, or a movie will soon lead them to the next “Big Thing” for their “Cause” to focus on and they will forget all about their current “interest” and move on.
On a more meta level, just look at the history of computer networking and the evolution into worldwide web internet for all (with write permissions for everyone, cos Free-Dumb, baby). The polarizing effect of social media has its roots in the era of BBS and Usenet, is nothing new, just more immediate.
The most egerious thing ive ever heard during this whole thing is 'Orcs are black people'. I still have the same exact reaction and dismissal as you had whenever uit comes up. These people ARE evil like you said.
I agree, orcs are orcs. The only time the "orcs are black people" things holds up is if the game explicitly uses them as a vehicle for discussion or exploration of racism and race relations, such as in Shadowrun.
@@oldmanofthemountains3388 Not to sidetrack this at all, but I find anyone who uses that movie as their talking point - weak. For one thing that movie owes its roots more to Shadowrun than to anything else. Thus the orcs were mutants and could have been from any ethnic background.
You nailed it. The biggest problem of the weak minded is not that they have rash thinking but that they tend to congregate in groups. Once emboldened by their numbers they become aggressive in enforcing their ideology on others. Worse still, being weak, they are subject to manipulation by individuals who can project charisma. Thus becoming a blunt tool to force political or social ideologies. As George Carlin once said: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups".
I really like that you emphasized the methodology and motivation. Representation isn’t inherently a bad thing, it’s the idea that a lack of it is intrinsically bad. It’s been corrupted. I think the biggest sin is something you touched on, but didn’t really go in depth. It’s the dilution of diversity. As you said, collectivist group think ideology hurts people. Actual diversity of thought is the solution to that. Diversity isn’t merely having different skin tones, but actual substantive differences in thoughts, perspectives, and world views. It would be extremely boring and detrimental if all RPGS were fantasy. The diversity in genres, influences, styles etc are what makes rpgs unique and interesting. Ironically the crowd that champions “diversity” often misguidedly kill it. The focus on superficial aspects distract many from digging deeper. And therein lies the problem.
A possible 4th trait would be "divisiveness", as in it serves to divide the RPG community along race lines. As one saying goes, "you get more of what you focus on". The more people decry the inadequacies of the racial compliment of RPGs, the more people declare (factual or not) how this race or that minority isn't being represented "enough" or "correctly" in a fictional setting, the result is people are mentally and emotionally focusing more on the divisions between the different, real world races/cultures/minorities of the players of the game than they are focusing on the playing of the game.
Oh man...I have to respond to this in the Viewer Comments video coming up in January. Having a hard time holding back now. Good on ya for this. 🙂 Happy gaming. 👊🏿
@@RPGElite Glad to be of help. Looking forward to your next installment on this topic. I really appreciate that you cover these socially contentious topics. You can speak where I (white guy) cannot without my race being thrown at me to disregard any point I might make. It's too easy to shut me down with accusations of racism. In a sense, you can be my voice where I would be shouted quiet. Thank you.
The cultural Marxists have to imagine the early days of the hobby were the Bad Old Days (because it justifies their take-over), and say frequently that we were evil racists where a po' little girl or Black or gay couldn't get ahead. No, you young ignorant pups! We were OUTCASTS! We were even accused of being SATANISTS! If anybody got interested in the game and wanted to share our Outcast status, we loved it! We taught the hobby to ANYONE who wanted to learn.
And now at the 13 minute mark, I thank you because changing American Culture is what we need. And if we keep up teaching the truth, we may just change enough of it to make a difference.
If one is discussing truth bombs, our boy Servant is measured by the megaton. Can honestly say that your channel shines with the work, intellectual honesty, and courage you put into it.
Thank you kindly. That blesses me, my man. Wish you weren't across the pond. We could hang out for a bit. If that ever changes - me over there or you here - let's try to make it happen. 😉 Now, back to the haters. 🙄 Happy gaming. 👊🏿
@@RPGElite Absolutely. Covid and a new house has kept me from visiting the states and visit family for too long... When I can rectify that, I'll look ya up. We'll throw dice!
I never made the link between needing to see yourself 'reflected' in media and classical narcissism before. It seems intuitive now that you've mentioned it, and the driving of self worth through social media seems to have fed that. Thoughtful point. Thanks for the insight.
I really appreciate the quote you wrote and think it's application goes far beyond TTRPGs. I think if your worldview isn't solid in something immovable you'll constantly be looking for the next thing to be fulfilled, such as representation.
I think the most egregious example of this is the way the monkeyfolk race was treated in the new Spelljammer. It's great to see someone other than RPGPundit talking about this, especially someone who's less of a culture warrior. Unfortunately, people like me don't have much capacity to move people on this issue since the people who need convincing have been conditioned to evaluate what a speaker says based on who his forefathers were and how many oppression points he has, not the actual validity of what he says. Thank you for standing up to this disturbing trend. As a former, I can say you hit the nail on the head with your analysis. I left the woke cult about a year ago, not because my core values changed but because I saw it for what it was and realised that it's not truly a path to compassion. I hope more people wake up and choose to stop serving the narcissism you describe.
The truths I'm hearing in this video are astounding. It's what people need to hear: the truth spoken fearlessly, candidly, and without apology. Peace, Love, & Hairgrease...
As a long time player of "The Game that Shall not be Named", I think the most egregious "sin" is those folks who are weak. I see it so much in and around that game specifically. I have decided to move away from the parent company and start playing OSR versions. I have mad respect for you, playing alternate RPG's. I have tried through the years and they have just never stuck with players for long term. So I always end up going back to the "Game that Shall not be Named". As I tend to play more fantasy based games. I did have a decent run of FFG's Star Wars games and would not mind another run at those at some point, they are just so hard to get a hold of these days.
@@burgsrus I am well aware, just poking a little bit of fun at the un-naming of the game gygax used to run. As well as highlighting that it isn't any of the options I highlighted which tend to be the ones that spring to mind in the rocks I hide under.
Love your channel. I've boiled down your RPG Elite Philosophy into bullet points and put it up as guidelines going forward for my campaign, after a narcissistic player finally had enough of not getting their way and left us.
I have to say that the narcissist angle struck me very strongly. I had not looked at it that way before, but it very much aligns with the self-righteous "better than you" types that talk down their nose to people like me, who don't embrace the "wokening" of the game that shall not be named.
What kills me, as a white dude, is when the Hadozee controversy popped off I was accused of being bigoted. Here's the shorthand. Hadozee are the Spelljammer monkey people that escaped their wizard overlord. Many people say this is racist because it uses black stereotypes. I point out that it's racist to compare black people to monkeys. I'm then flamed out of a couple discussions. Doesn't matter that the Gith are very similar; these people think WotC is racist when they make that leap of logic on their own.
I had thought the Hadozee were a crossover of Star Frontiers' Yazirian race. I guess if someone is going to look for offense, they are going to find it.
@@gaiamancer the hadozee were from that initially I believe, but were then taken into the original spelljammer and then thusly added to the new spelljammer.
The Hadozee weren't compared to black people because they were monkey-like, the comparison was that they were a culture that whose identity revolved around being a formerly enslaved people. I don't agree with a lot of these complaints about races in games. What we do need to strengthen our BS meter to pick up on, is when when there is generally a minor complaint, and the culture war anti-woke folk twist it into something that it never was, then rage about how bad things have become. The Orcs are black is a prime example, they were never compared to black people by WotC. WotC said that in the game orcs carry many negative stereotypes, being inherently evil for example. Because real world groups of people also deal with negative stereotyping, WotC decided to end the stereotyping of orcs so as to not perpetuate that behavior in their game. That somehow turned into orcs are black, because certain people are not interested in being honest, when there is an opportunity to rile the base, and make people angry.
@@alexandriamason2355 I'm not trying to rile anything up, nor am I antiwoke or any other label you want to bring up. If the enslavement was the only angle that mattered, then why were the Gith and Warforged not conpared to other enslzved cultures? The Hadozee were singled out because other people projected stereotypes onto them, then made it racial.
@@MySqueezingArm If you thought I was calling you out, I apologize for being unclear, I was not. I think the Gith and Warforged would be an "issue" with some if they came out today, and I think that is stupid. It is a stupid that comes from a place of at least trying to mean well, but are slightly ignorant, so I generally shug it off and play my game. My beef, if I have one, is with those that purposefully misrepresent things just to fuel the rage. Most of it is done for political reasons. Make folks mad about something frivolous, they won't see you poisoning their water, taking away their rights, ect. RPGs are just not that important in the grand picture, but they are used as a useful tool of distraction.
So I am not entirely sure that I am picking up what you are putting down. Is the following an example of what you are talking about? Funny you should mention a Modiphius game, MY0. I have done work for them in the past, some writing and editing on Achtung!, playtesting for several games, and worked on the Modiphius Calling podcast and live playtesting. Anyway, my team was tasked to do live playtesting for their Conan game many months before it was available to purchase and I thought, "Oh wow, a huge world with a heap of ethnic groups and every skin tone and nose shape already in the lore!" Being ethnically mixed I was excited to be able to explore a character from kinda Africa. So I made a character from a rural area in the Black Kingdoms and I used the Medieval Yoruba culture for his clothing and based his face on one of the Ife bronzes. I also have a Nigerian co worker at my day job so I picked his brain for clever turns of phrase and words of wisdom. Just to be clear, I did not use an accent during the live stream. Everything went well for the first 4ish episodes, viewer feedback was overwhelmingly positive, the 2 employees from Modiphius that we were working with loved it, one of them was from West Africa and the only non-white full time employee of the company. Then Chris, the owner of Modiphius, saw the 5th (If I remember correctly) episode. The word "ballistic" would well describe the way he went. He called us, not just me, racist, bigots, and stereotypers. (not even sure that is a word). He said I portrayed my character as the early Bugs Bunny cartoons portrayed Africans. To defend myself here I have to say the game system allows for one's wits to be as dangerous as one's brawn so I went for the brains over brawn build. Sort of a friendly always smiling, but trusts no one and cunning. He then said and I quote, "...you play this guy as some kind of Uncle Tom but buck-toothed and living in a straw hut." This struck me as odd. My character was a storyteller and full of clever anecdotes so maybe I could see the Uncle Tom comment, but would he have said that if the character had less melanin? I was feeling backed into a corner so I said, "Would you prefer if I play a Cimmerian Uncle Paddy with no teeth living in a straw hut?" So, he never spoke to me again.
It could be an example. But to have everything in context, watching the first video in the series helps. Also, I don't believe I ever mentioned any Modiphius Games. TSR, Free League, Palladium, Monte Cook. No Modiphius. And you're better off with that individual being out of your life. No loss there. The long and the short of it is to to have an inordinate focus on race representation speaks to an individual who has some deep character issues and they need to take care of that first and stop projecting their misery onto others in the TTRPG community. Play the game or don't.
Verisimilitude is a big problem. Modern "remixing" of media leads to a lot of instances of stuff just not making any sense. It is difficult to buy into a "world" when the logic of the world's reality is distorted by outside ideological agendas. If you are going to play a game set in 1400s Inuit ice world hunting adventure... an old Korean vegan woman named Brad just doesn't quite fit the scene. There is nothing bad about Koreans, women, vegans or Bradlies, but WHY are they in the frozen north in the 1400's??? Modern reality has, thankfully, mixed cultures and has naturally diversified over time, but the notion that things need to be retrofitted with "diversity" so that one legged people with red hair olive skin and big ears also get "seen" or "promoted" or "pushed" leads to a situation where everyone fits into a box, but also doesn't quite fit into the... right box. Infinite boxes of diversified humanity means no one is anything. Apartheid (which I grew up under) was the ultimate end game of diversity boxing. Everyone gets their own special place and they can't mix... good idea? Absolutely not. An abhorrent stain on history. Every oppressive regime begins by defining who the "others" are, the untermenchen and how "they" must be dealt with. At some point, you end up on that list, usually through no fault of your own and wonder why your friends handed you over to the secret police?
I think are a lot of well intentioned people out there trying to reassess how prejudices may have influenced the creation of various types of media, but tokenism (in my opinion) in TTRPGs is probably one of the worst results/outcomes of the faults you have listed. For me, its the interplay between unintentionally patronizing or condescending people creating art with particular types of narcissistic people in mind that is actually holding us back from being a more united community. If you're reading this message, I hope you have a great week. Stay Elite!
While I love seeing *proper* representation (which can absolutely be provided by our own imaginations, but is lovely to see in artwork as well), it is definitely important to see the marketing, and sometimes well-meaning but ignorant steps taken. I once saw an older book on comic creation on making "Ethnic" superheroes, which displayed a very reductive outlook on what that meant and displayed some altogether unenjoyable stereotypes. That book was not made for the benefit of the people, it was made to sell copies based on a perceived improvement of marketability. I tend to be one to tread carefully, but I really appreciate your blunt and honest analysis. Making efforts to breathe more life into the worlds we play in with broader representation is great where applicable, but it doesn't mean that a piece of work which didn't hit all of the bullet points of "virtue" is bad.
Hey there. Love your channel. I like to see people like you and myself who are true vets in this saying what honestly needs to be said. I literally was having this very debate when this video popped up. Kinda eerie LOL. Out of what you mentioned, I agree that #3 is the one most egregious. It's just the end product of the other 2 in a way. When you said "psychological damage" something popped into my head. I'm a Drug Counselor with some time behind me in the field. One of the many hats I have to wear is psychiatric. Also, I happen to have been running the original and still "problematic" game for 31 years. A lot of the issues that I keep seeing seem to root form an inability to differentiate fantasy from reality. Though I am not sure if that is included in this particular subject. Anways keep up the good work. You're inspiring me a whole lot to do my own thing here on TH-cam. :)
Very clear and based set of points made here. Amen! How did it take me 2 years to find this channel? You earned a subscription from me my man. Keep the great content coming!
Thank you for making this video and releasing it today. I have been experiencing exactly the type of behavior you have described in school recently. This seems to come up and time I bring up my project of a therapeutic interventions presented in a TRPG framework. Constantly called various phobic and ist names, followed by these of types leaving the conversation. I have been feeling discouraged by these types, however, watching this video was very validating. Thanks again.
I'm digging the Vaesen book in the background there. Every Free League book that I've bought has been absolutely top notch. Well done on the vids too. Great job. Nice to hear intelligent views being voiced on this topic.
Thank you. I try to spread them out to maybe once a month. Let it simmer a bit before going back in. I enjoy it all. It all is a part of The Agenda. Happy gaming. 👊🏿
Amazing pair of videos on this topic so far. Love your channel, man. I've said it before and I'll say it again...game recognizes game and fans recognize fans. Tabletops let their games be infiltrated by people that do not GAME and are not FANS. Gatekeeping is a good thing. Black? White? Asian? Indian? Atlantean? Martian? I don't care if you're a fan and you want to game...but when you sit down and your first input is "So this is what should be changed"? Yeah no. They are not fans. They're subversive, attention-seeking ideologues. They're toxic.
Well done!I don't know if I have ever commented on a video before, normally I watch youtube on my Apple TV, but I felt I should get drop a comment.This was just next video in the algorithm queue, didn't know who you were but anyone that has Alternity on their shelf has to know something! Then you drop the 3E GammaWorld and TMNT references so I had to subscribe!
Oh, you know, it's on like Donkey Kong up in here when it comes to the classics. I have MUCH planned in that department. Thanks for the support and keep it locked. Happy gaming. 👊🏿
After watching one of your videos, TH-cam has recommended several more. I want to express my sincere thanks for helping me feel like I can finally understand more clearly a bunch of stuff that has just... mystified me for some time. I recommended your channel to my oldest friend.
The most egregious is those that scream Eurocentrism in fantasy is wrong but then they'll scream about cultural appropriation if you create or play a setting for another ethnicity if you're not that ethnicity. It goes to show you just how insidious this cult is. It's not about representation, it's about total control. They also messed up with this space because new, better content is being produced independently all the timr
While all 3 traits are bad, I'm not certain one is worse than the other, but they are worse when combined. Appreciate your thoughts, keep up the good work!
I think that there are two things that are the most egregious: One...the Narcissism. You covered it very well. In a way much better than I have been able to do so. And Two: You touched on it briefly... It's the unfair, unfounded, and untrue accusations that get aimed at innocent people. I have heard so many accusations that the game culture before the influx of "The Cool Kids" as I call it, was somehow toxic and evil... and so much worse at times. And unless people get with the new program, they should not be playing because they are guilty of all these bad things. It's heartbreaking. It's divisive. It's just... in my opinion... wrong. I don't want to drone on. What I can say is that i have truly appreciated your videos. Thank you for speaking out.
Its certainly a contentious issue. I think that corporations are having to do the work to make narratives publicly acceptable for a world audience when a lot of it was based in 1920s xenophobic pulp stereotypes of the hostile foreigner in mysterious Africa and Mongolia. Personally I like things that were introduced in the DND Plane Shift supplements of having geographic rather than racial features, such as if you were a mountain man you might have different physiology than if you were raised in a fishing village, and a little more robust than just skills from your background.
Thank you. I feel the same way. It’s very different when it’s a natural fluid part of the story and not disruptive and forced. If you feel under represented in the game you are playing, maybe it says more about who you are playing with. Cause most game groups play in their own worlds, rule books are references game groups pick and choose items to add to the world. Or use it to inspire ideas for it.
As a white south american guy, I like playing RPGs to learn more of other cultures. It's an immersive experience, and the research for doing a good roleplay is always illuminating. With that in mind, I always wondered why there's no TTRPG set in the pre-colonial african civilizations. It'd be an interesting learning experience, IMHO. Another pet peeve for me: not enough asian cultures and mithologies. We have dozens of RPGs dealing with a few pantheons (mostly greco-roman, egiptian, a little norse and a sprinkling of celtic), and almost nothing about chinese, indian or the more "exotic" religions (say, vietnamese or central african - everybody knows aoutAnansi, but what about the other supernatural creatures of that folklore?) Any thoughts?
Check out Design Mechanics Mythic Earth product line..they have Mythic Babylon and Mythic Polynesia. Also check out Jackals..set in a Bronze Age Near East.
Curious, Servant of Shiloh: you mentionned that you're gonna cover the 'Orcs are black people' argument, were you planning to cover the Drows as well ? Drizzt/Drow fan stuff including cosplays were the tabletop trend back when i played 3.0 of 'that game', and in former editions it was really seen more of a 'glam rock/hair metal' vibe with their former look. Pretty sure those cosplayers never had the intent to hurt black communities when doing drow costumes, and just wanted to share their craft for a race they'd liked. But now there is a lot more triggering from those activists including the removal of a Community episode where Chang portrayed one. I have my own take on it but i'd be curious for you to share yours.
If time permits, I'll tackle both in one video. But you know me. I like to cover details most would think are irrelevant and me rambling. It's me being thorough. Most people have the attention span of a gnat today, so they can't sit and listen to anything longer than a soundbite. This is definitely not the channel for them. It'll be a few months. Around March/April. But it's coming. 👊🏿
I love how you actually call us caucasians. I've been having an issue with the term "white" for some time now. White is a color. Caucasian is the heritage. Great content!!!
I’ve never had to deal with this at any table I’ve played at, and I’ve played at a mixed racial table before. How do we have people seeing Orcs as black people? When there are black people (PEOPLE) in the game. The word race needs redefined in the game, and have species then race. Elf is a species, and drow or wood or high elves are the race. Human is the species, and Calishite, Tethyrian, Damaran, Mulan, Illuskan, Rashemi, and Chondathan are the race. To summarize, smart people only see people and judge each by their character. Dumb people see color and segregate them by that or religion or sex…
Dropping the word "race" in favor of "species" solves so many issues. Ancestry and heritage are both too close to race - SPECIES is the most accurate descriptor for the difference between elves and men and 4-armed space ants.
@@havokmusicinc I agree %100. One of my counters to the argument that showing the differences (mostly in character creation) in the nonhuman "races" in fantasy games begets racism is that they are NOT HUMAN. As in not homo sapiens. They might look similar to humans but an elf is not a human and likely a completely different worldview. Use of the word species is already a descriptor in certain sci fi games that I know of. Not sure why fantasy games can't follow suit.
I don't follow the latest edition of "The Game that Shall not be Named" and some of the old schoolers complain about so much other stuff I did not realize this was a real issue.
I bought some "Basic Fantasy" stuff based on the reviews, because it bills itself as "old school", and later on during some follow-up videos, I noticed that people were saying things like, "I'm glad there's no politics in this book!" And as I understand it, what they mean is, "I'm angry that D&D doesn't let me be as racist/bigoted/misogynistic/hateful as I want to be!" Because there is no politics in either game. There wasn't any politics in the original 1970's game. People who use the word "politics" are using it incorrectly.
@@paulcoy9060 I disagree slightly. the issue is also that these games are also very political themselves anyway. It's like saying "I'm glad there's no politics in call of duty!" It's a game about war lol. These games always have some thing about how X race hates X race and how X monstrous humanoid race is evil and killed on sight. That's hella political. And the whole "I'm glad there's no politics in this " = "I'm glad this media let's me be as bigoted as I want to be!" thing is a classic. Seen it a bunch lol.
@@Lycaon1765 Maybe my problem is that as a child, my Mom drove my brother and me to play with the only black kids in town (Rhode Island) so that seems normal, and growing up watching Star Trek where everybody got along, and not having any problems in my life where I can blame anybody else for them like "they took my job!" or "they're bringing crime!", I'm really not clued in to viewing anyone as "The Other". Maybe I'm just naive, but I think we can actually all just get along. Except for people who hate cats, they need to go.
If I had to guess, it would be related to the passing of the mantle of Captain America. While I think it was a logical choice, in hindsight I have to wonder about the motives of the producers.
@@mikeb.1705 This would be my guess also. As Marvel/Disney was being lazy with the casting of a black man as Captain America. When Falcon was a original black superhero with a rich story. It is just sloppy seconds to pass the mantle of another hero onto Falcon. There was also the female superhero scene that kind of set the stage for our current phase. Plus Captain Marvel outdoing all of the male heroes, including the Hulk and Thor. Those last few might be me projecting a bit of my own opinions. lol
I love your point of view. Wish more shared it openly. The truth is we are all the same race / species. We just have cultural and environmental adaptations. Not that these are less in any way when looked upon our individual development or background. Sad to see the decisiveness in the gaming community...
Most excellent! I greatly appreciate your speaking out to this issue, for if I try to discuss this I am summarily dismissed, if not outright ostracized. As for the 'orcs' argument, my wife and I came up with the counter argument as such. If Drow are 'evil' because they are black, then high elves are 'white supremacists' as they i) are xenophobic, ii) consider themselves superior to all other peoples' including other elves and iii) often separate and isolate themselves. If the former is problematic, then so is the latter, which doesn't seem to being scrubbed out of the rules and lore.
The issue with the counter argument is that the people saying "orcs and drow are black" would agree with you, and say that WotC's acceptance of this lore just shows their racism.
Right on point! I find it so risible that games shun from the word races and rely on ancestries or species (the latter brings up the question of offsprings in my mind). Also the mechanical adjustments now have to be all + god forbids to say there is a - somewhere... And i don't get how chosing the offset point is now an issue.... Damn the level of insecurity!
Unsubscribe? Granted my "representation" has been HFA but how is disliking tokenism and pandering via "inclusion" a reason to unsubscribe? Good work, keep it up.
This was a particularly powerful video, and it’s obvious that it’s heartfelt from you, thank you. Also, you might want to consider seeing top gun: Maverick. It was a pretty decent movie, no hidden agenda, and a lot of fun.
I'd love to have you at my table just because if you can crush this topic so thoroughly I'd love to see what you'd do to my boss fights :D Well spoken, eloquent and on point.
Trait 3 weakness is the the most vile because a weak minded individual are the ones that fall for any of this b.s. and they get their insecurities "acknowledged and affirmed" but then are told they don't have to deal with their problems, it's the "other" people that should take care not to offend you. Horrible. They are saying "stay a baby, never struggle, never fail, never learn from your mistakes, oh and by the way you're a victim it's "them" over there..." We have one life to live and it's said that people have been mentally f'ed with just to subscribe to an ideology of weakness and being a servant of evil, because that is what it is, evil. To ruin young people's lives and have them be weak so you can be telling them everything to do, say, or believe - evil.
Only halfway through the video so it may be addressed there, but constant knee bouncing is a common tick amongst those with ADHD. Just mentioning it because you said it's indicative of a nervous childhood which seems somewhat tenuous in my own ADHD childhood. I just couldn't stop moving, even when I was calm and confident. Having not seen the film I can't fully argue against your observation as I don't know if that character had ADHD as part of their characterisation.
Man i ran into a meme group in facebook called "Chaotic Good DnD Memes". I figured id see some funny positive jokes based on happy stuff in DnD. Got in the group and it was proLGBT, woke, trans, diversity, all the extremist checkboxes. They had a post praising WoTC for changing orcs due to them representing Black people. I posted my disagreement about it and how it was a mockery, and racist to associate us to orcs in the first place. We are clearly Dragonborn, duh! But these people came out in droves with adhominum attacks. White women refering to me as "lost" or "Uncle Tom" etc. People assuming im full on evil conservative. What was even worst is that the people in the group refered to themselves as "chaotic good" in real life. These people "mostly White women" stated that i couldnt be virtuous or chaotic good because i had a conservative viewpoint on things. It was the most absurd cultlike logic i had ever seen in any facebook group. And i have see 3% pages, pro confederate groups, and blatant White Supremist groups that made more sense than these people. The people in this "chaotic good" group swore i wouldnt last long because i would be triggered by all their virtuous deeds and good thinking as opposed to my bad conservative thought. Mind you, im politically nuetral "Black first" positioned individual in my politics. These people were just stereotyping me because i found their diversity stance on race in these games offensive and patronizing. You are so correct in stating that these people with these mindsets are embracing evil. The treatment i get online by people aligned this way is far worst than anything in real life. Even New Jersey cops treat me with more respect.
My man…this comment…I will have to take some time and respond to it in my next viewer comment video in January. It won't be the whole thing but the main points of it. Thank you so much for telling your experience. Appreciate it. Happy gaming. 👊🏿
@@RPGElite Sure. For clarity in your research the group was called "Chaotic Good Tabletop Roleplaying Memes". It looks like their original group is under review by FB. (Probably because the people are crazy) Their admins silently had me unfollow them, but not kick me from their group. I think they knew i was a ticking time bomb for them if they booted me from the group outright. So i ended up staying in it and not seeing their post unless i actively searched them. I have some screenshots of the conversation if youd like to see them. Happy gaming!
You aren't wrong, and you made some good point. Some of us are weak though. I'm white, but I'm trans and gay, so maybe representation is different when it comes to race, but I like when games add representation. It makes me feel good to see, it scratches an itch that I can't quite articulate. On the other hand, I don't need it, and I wouldn't fault a game for only having straight characters mentioned because, yeah, we can just add our own, it's very doable. TTRPGs are unique in that you can make them to fit to what you want to see. Your argument, from what I understand, is that people can enjoy stories about characters who aren't like them, and you can just let a game be a game, and add whatever representation they want anyway, so game companies are just doing it for the show and it's dumb and patronizing. And there is truth to that. Except that I think some of the examples you pointed out are not meant in that way. And you might make the argument intentions don't matter but consider in a game like cyberpunk: black people aren't going to go extinct. There might be a cultural shift and the way we talk about melanin and ethnicity night be different, and yeah race is kind of a social construct, but there's no way any game set in the space future isn't gonna have people with darker than average skin. And any planet that has any spread of civilization across the latitudes is probably going to have variation in skin color. And artists want to make their characters look different. They want to draw people who are black or Asian looking with different facial features and skin tones, because that's the nature of humanity, and visually interesting. And yeah, demanding representation from big media companies is kind of dumb, when you could just make your own games if it bugs you that much, but I think adding darker skin in art here and there in the book is relatively harmless. That's just my two cents.
It feels like the last two go hand in hand, with the first being the impetus of two and three. I agree with your thesis, but why do you think this ideology has come about? It does not seem to be limited to TTRPGs.
For the question at the end, it has to be the promotion of weakness. Culturally, the idea of fragility being a virtue has been embraced and man, that does not make for a healthy culture... Especially when the best way to demonstrate your fragility is to bash your nose against another's hands.
I could talk about this for far too long. Believe it or not, I held back in this video. I really did. I'm sure it will find its way into another video. But the abject weakness of the culture at large is indicative of a plethora of a million issues we face globally. I can't stand it.
Oh I thought we were going to talk about min maxing affecting player builds over fun. Like why wouldn't you pick something with dark vision in dnd and pathfinder?
Wow the way you breakdown these hot button topic is awesome Thank You so much for sharing.your opinion on this. Yeah been saying for a while it's your game your time and choice just don't play, find another group or refactor parts you don't like. Keep doing you!
Your videos are always fantastic: well thought out and well presented as always. Gay white male here, mostly on the GM side of the table, and not a fan of token representation at all. It feel like I can't get through an adventure w/o bumping into a random minot LGBT+ NPC. It's not that I object to inclusion, but it always feels hollow to me. The sexuality of the NPC is superfluous to the story as is their skin color most of the time. If I want a LGBT+ character in the game I'm more than capable of adding it in myself if it will fit the story. Seeing a random minor shop keeper check an inclusion box on some corporate style guide just feels like a cheap and easy PR play to try and get some dollars out of whatever subset of people the representation checkbox is aimed at today. Companies include these token characters to appease, exploit and misdirect. Real inclusion wouldn't need to be virtue-signaled it would occur naturally and without fanfare.
I'd not heard about the Orcs thing until recently (in the last year or so) and I'm unsure how that leap was made, but I'm really glad you are making these videos. The one thing I'd like (and if you already made a video on it, just point the way) is some advise on how Caucasians can bring these things up and promote the truth of what you are saying without it sounding like "white man 'splaining".
Love the video. We have to remember that most of these type of people are educated by the public school system. The public school system teaches group think, and whatever the group thinks is right.
Never in all my years of gaming did I think of orcs as black people or even dark skinned, nor do I remember ever seeing them illustrated that way. I've seen them pink, pale, green, pig-like, but never black or Afro. There is zero correlation to real black people or racist tropes. They live in caves, not jungles. They wear mail and wield European weapons and clothing and use some of the most modern technology of their myth. It's hard to imagine that the person who invented this slander had any honest intention.
I’ve never understood representation. You aren’t playing you in a RPG. You’re playing a character. Maybe one you identify with but it’s never you. My favorite race in rpg is the Drow race. Yeah yeah yeah Drizzt is my dude. He represented me in the Hunter trilogy. As in he was the character I identified with most. Not Wulfgar or Regis. And it’s because he had traits I admired not skin I worshipped as a false idol. It bothers me how much we have gone back to identifying ourselves based on our melanin level vs our unique individual traits and characteristics or our beliefs or our common goals. It’s like we are just surrendering to the idiots.
Watched all of it now and there's definitely many points I agree on. The bit where I'm in disagreement is the blanket statement of players exploring their beliefs in a game is weak. TTRPGs are an amazing chance to explore and challenge in safety for those who aren't sure of themselves *to become stronger*in those beliefs or to change them without fear of harm to become their authentic selves. Not everyone is as far down the path of self knowledge to be able to even know they're making mistakes. They have to "sin" in order to be able to equate it to their own awareness of the world. From what you are saying (and I acknowledge I might be getting the wrong end of the stick) this first step must always be in the right direction, even if the direction isn't known, and somehow this is "weak"? Surely taking the wrong step in a game is favourable to taking the same wrong step in real life?
It's so unfortunate that the world has come to a place where this has to be said, but I'm grateful to you for saying it. I couldn't agree more with your assessment. Thank you for making this video.
White(trash) UK guy here, with a pretty good race/gender mix at my table, 3x "white" players 3x not... we've talked about race and... my example - as someone that's eagerly awaiting the Dungeon Alchemist "snow" update - we're playing Rime of the Frostmaiden and none of my maps have snow - "Hey guys, it's a game of imagination *Please imagine SNOW". I DM, I imagine what my PC's look like based of their art and I'm sure we've each got that all round. What you as the player present to me as your character portrait - is my start point. How you RP your character is the flesh on the bone - we're all gathered to have fun. Black, Asian, White-folk - we can all sit round for 4+ hours, maybe have a beer, talk some about our personal lives, how the world is... none of us are that different, we're all nerds - that like reading nerd stuff and watching nerd stuff - we come together because our timezones work out. As a DM I've asked some questions "This NPC's a Fey from Chult - I don't want to tread on any toes, (I can't do voices - I suck as a DM at this, so I just don't) - but I don't want to offend anyone, so I'm just gonna do the NPC as I imagine her" and it's good, we're pretending - together. I've got no ill intent, but if I need to learn something, or change something - we discuss it like adults, because we're all there to have fun - as friends (now), we've gotten to know each other and "hell, I'm a better person for knowing the Black heritage Brazilian dude". ...and it's just nice - biggest "argument" at my table's Imperial Vs Metric Measurements ;)
What I find most offensive about this "D&D needs more diversity" push has been how much it has retconned history. If you actually look at D&D settings from the TSR setting, they include multiple human ethnic groups representing a vast array of human ethnic groups from the real world to the fictitious in their skin, eye and hair tones, and none of them are ever treated as distinctly superior or inferior. I could write thousands of words talking about the different ethnicities of Mystara, Greyhawk, Dragonlance and the Forgotten Realms, but whatd be the point?
This is also found in the need of some to include things like being handicapped in RPG. When I read fantasy or play D and D I see no need for things like that. If someone wants to play that cool but in worlds where people come back from the dead and all why would handicaps be an issue? I have a mild form of Cerebral palsy and have no need to be represented when I play a game, mostly because that one small issue does not define me. Thank you for saying this and sorry for ranting on your page. I owe you a drink.
The most egregious of the three in my opinion, would be the pandering. I am what the political groups, businesses and govt seek when it comes to "minority insert". I'm very well aware of it. Either I had a friend that would call me out as "not dark enough" or had a community that cried "not trans enough" or "not lgbt enough". I even had some disgusting garbage people hit me up saying how I wasn't "doing enough" when I was assaulted. Even in my career, I hate it when my hard work and dedication to what I do is under questioned because I'm a minority among my minority coworkers. I love to play TTRPGs because they're about story, exploration, experience (with my group and leveling), and the fun I can get to do something I can't do in real life. I already have to deal with enough nonsense at my job or when my child informs me of the day's big news. Not in my games.
Wow. I am a cishet White man, who has taught English and ESL in a VERY diverse public high school for over 25 years. My wife is a POC, and of course our kids are, too. The vast majority of the time in my life, I am the only White person in the room. At work, I very often hear people speaking in languages that I cannot understand. At home, the same thing happens. And my father's first language was not English, so I grew up with a measure of that as well. None of that bothers me. At all. In fact, I rather enjoy it. And when I look at White people who would find any of it to be difficult to deal with - my thoughts about them are that they are pretty pathetic. And our society applauds this view. But it doesn't applaud when I hold the same view of people who aren't White - and of COURSE I do. That being said, I recognize that for many (if not most) people, seeing representation in the form of heroes and role models who look like them, characters who look like them, is important. I can see that. But I can also see that - for the BEST of people - it isn't. Good video.
I don't understand what this video is about regarding RPGs, are you saying that if I want to play a black character in Greyhawk or MERP then what? I'm weak?
Excellent content. Thank you. This is going to sound so minor, but I've really been going back and forth recently on what skin colour to paint a mini for a character in a game. We're playing Warhammer RPG 4th Ed. Using the main rules and the (pretty damn excellent) Starter Box. One of the pregens in the SB is depicted as being black in the character artwork. I'm painting a mini for the PC but the depicted skintone doesn't make sense to me. He's called Ferdinand Gruber and was born in the Reikland. If the picture hadn't shown him as black then it never would have occurred to me that he wasn't white. I know it's tokenism on the publisher's behalf - they're trying to tap in to that D&D 5E market - I get it. But the amount of soul-searching I have done on what colour skin to paint the mini has been nuts. If I go against the prescribed artwork will people think it's because I secretly harbour prejudices? If I go against what I know about the Empire's in-groups will I be capitulating to a manipulative ideology? Jesus! What a mess. Your video helped immensely. Ferdinand, in mini form anyway, will be Caucasian. I wonder if there will be any fallout at the table next week? If there is I'm linking your video to the Discord. Shift the blame 😀.
I don’t recall many hero pictures/paintings with any other race than white folk. Granted the artists were mainly white…they did toss in drow elves….but they never made much attempt at adding different real races and their lore. Again, the crew was mainly white and targeting young white males. Today, this should have been addressed. Why couldn’t there be a dark skinned Elvish race or African history medieval heroes. You got a point.
There are people like this in music programs through out our colleges. I don't understand it. I had a coworker relate what he over heard classmates say in his music courses. They did not think classic composers like Beethoven were relevant because they were white.
I think the #1 problem with many RPGs is when someone sits down to play their idea of the stereotype of a subgroup. Every Dwarf is gruff, every Elf is haughty and condenscending. With them reinforcing the notion of thinking in stereotype. ... Revenge of the Nerds is a silly movie of Nerd stereotypes - fun but NOT REAL. From there, well, it got me thinking about a lot of stuff and not only the stereotype asserted in print but also what got added at the table. Revelatory of the overall thought process of that person. I have dealt with assumptions of the stereotype of being a nerd, of the stereotype of being a homosexual, and the stereotype of a homosexual who is also a nerd. I may be rambling by now.
Im Mexican, and have travel some contries in ameriaca and europe, and the most racis society is un the USA. is the onli place i heer the term "cultural apropiation". maybe because they dont like people mix. in my game Elf hare like mayans, dwarfs are like "Villistas", Eladrins came from the see, the Orks are like spanish conquistadors, Goblisn are Trasgos, and Halflings are Chaneques, etc. etc. and nobody cares what the oficial gamerules say. is just a game.
It's a sad but unfortunate reality that we deal with. It's ridiculous and has sinister undertones, but we're still going to put the Leet perspective out there. Slowly but surely, more peeps will get on board. Some never will. But now, we have a small community and that's saying something. Happy gaming. 👊🏿
💥💥QUESTION OF THE VID💥💥 Of the three traits I mentioned, which do you believe is the most egregious? If I haven't mentioned one, which one is it?
Patronization does not exist without narcissism, which does not exist without some weakness they are attempting to compensate for.
I want to hear your views on the absolutely stupid, very public change in THAT GAME to change races to species.
I still don't know enough about this issue to make a very good comment about it, and maybe I am way off topic here, but one thing I find pretty awful is that big companies are pushing token
' representation ' because it is a marketing buzzword right now and they just want to bump up quarterly profits. Pretending to care about people or any kind of social issue in order to increase sales also seems pretty evil to me.
I enjoy your videos even if I am a long way off from understanding all the implications of the things discussed, looking forward to the next one.
@@driver3899 please explain how that is any different from corporate behavior at any other time during your life...
@@jamestaylor3805 You are right, it's not any different.
I was just pointing out that it's an element in play that wasn't featured in the video
As a white male I get called names when I try to discus this. I love games like Harlem Unbound that is based in Harlem in the 1920s and I keep trying to put the idea in game companies heads to make something based on the Indian subcontinent cultures. The orcs argument has always made me mad. I go to lots of events and would love to meet up with you someday.
The orc argument is so vile in how racist and ignorant it is that it nearly spurs me to slap the people espousing it. It's disgusting on every level.
Hear hear.
If you want a game setting based on Indian history and mythology, check out Arrows of Indra.
@@derekburge5294 Thanks for mentioning that, looks kinda interesting.
@@derekburge5294 Arrows of Indra is by The RPG Pundit. In that game, he believes he introduced the first Trans character in gaming.
Yet they call him a RACIST BIGOT! He has to hold his Hispanic-ness as a shield to deflect crap meant for White people!
uh huh. and the people I see pushing this agenda of race representation, identity representation, PRONOUN representation is coming from the people who are demanding it. who are the narcissists?
"The narcissism of small differences leads to the most boring conformity."
TODAY, (circa 2023) we live in a minority exaggerated society that obsesses over small differences , a.k.a. "MICRO AGGRESSION" and the perfection of the art of BEING OFFENDED. These are people who use terms like "cisgender" as something they are automatically offended by... these are deliberately self-conditioned to be "triggered" by their own use of the word that declares "you are who you are AT BIRTH so live with you as you are". This is offensive why? Because people wanna pretend to be other. They feel other. They are told "you must become" , rather than, "your a kid. hive it time. when you're older it will be more clear." In RPGs we legitimately pretend to be someone/something e are not in reality. After the session of fun, we remain who we are before the game.
Should a game be bent over backward and altered in content and presentation to be "INCLUSIVE" and "SENSITIVE" to the woke ideologies of identity nonsense and gender diaspora? I would thing this would alter the substance of the game , unnecessarily encumber the GM, force a restriction of an eggshell covered floor for the players, and generally make the game no longer an RPG, but a session of sensitivity training practice of political correctness. or the elevation of moral posturing over facts. And folks. THAT ain't fun.
If I'm running a game all about the struggle of being a gay, black/chinese/latino/a cross dressing PI the 20's or medieval times for a group of trans-minded people then ok... still isn't gonna be fun, but maybe the pc sensitive trigger wokesters will be satisfied with the effort to conform my cis reality to their fantasy.
what about race?
Same situation. although more realistically achievable. But including people of color is no big deal for me and everyone I k now or have gamed with. The REALITY of race in ,say, the 1920s... play the reality in the set environment, look for opportunities to role play fun and advantages/ If you can't have fun with it, maybe it's the wrong game for you.
The most egregious thing to me is the hypocrisy of it all. All of this representation stuff is said to be done in the name of altruism, empathy, compassion etc. But it's really just thinly veiled bullying, nerd bashing, apathy, and narcissism. They don't really care about hobby, they don't really care how patronizing and tokenizing they are (in fact, it's by design) They're just here because it's popular right now and they can use it as yet another vehicle for their narcissism, until they crash it into a wall and unceremoniously discard and abandon tabletop for another thing to hijack and to break in their name of their ego.
Oh, Mylanta. And they say I'm harsh? 😳
I wish I could like this five times. I'm right there with ya. 😉
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
I see no need to augment or rebut this viewpoint.
I’m 52 years old. I’ve been gaming since 1980. What is happening now in Gaming is a phenomenon that happens every time the “ mainstream” decides suddenly that they want something they have previously derided.
When I was a young man, I was often bullied and chastised for liking Skateboarding, and various genres of music, and tabletop gaming. Guess what?
When Punk got popular, in the 90’s, the core fan base was “blamed” for “ keeping others out” and “ Gatekeeping”.
Skateboarding, same thing.
It’s also happening right now with Comic Books.
Now, it’s gaming. These weak people cannot just discover something and enjoy it. They have to tear it down, destroy anyone who was already there, and make it “ Theirs”. It’s the same reason people lie about having been into something they are just learning about “ forever” . They feel a need to “win”. To like something or do something “Better” than everyone else. Since they can’t travel time, and be there at the beginning, they have a need to be a HERO, and take the thing from it’s Evil, oppressive keepers and make it their own, by excluding others and being exactly what they claim to hate.
Humans are largely Simple minded and easily manipulated. I’ve found that the best thing to do is wait. Nowadays the wait times are short. Television, or a movie will soon lead them to the next “Big Thing” for their “Cause” to focus on and they will forget all about their current “interest” and move on.
On a more meta level, just look at the history of computer networking and the evolution into worldwide web internet for all (with write permissions for everyone, cos Free-Dumb, baby). The polarizing effect of social media has its roots in the era of BBS and Usenet, is nothing new, just more immediate.
The most egerious thing ive ever heard during this whole thing is 'Orcs are black people'. I still have the same exact reaction and dismissal as you had whenever uit comes up. These people ARE evil like you said.
I agree, orcs are orcs. The only time the "orcs are black people" things holds up is if the game explicitly uses them as a vehicle for discussion or exploration of racism and race relations, such as in Shadowrun.
I agree. Likening ethnicities to different species is, in my mind, much more intolerant than what they are claiming.
I think the overarching idea that Orcs are black people came after the movie "Bright" came out. I have many.... strong... feelings about that movie.
@@oldmanofthemountains3388 Not to sidetrack this at all, but I find anyone who uses that movie as their talking point - weak. For one thing that movie owes its roots more to Shadowrun than to anything else. Thus the orcs were mutants and could have been from any ethnic background.
@@burgsrus not to mention that it's a single movie and not indicative of a whole genre.
You nailed it. The biggest problem of the weak minded is not that they have rash thinking but that they tend to congregate in groups. Once emboldened by their numbers they become aggressive in enforcing their ideology on others. Worse still, being weak, they are subject to manipulation by individuals who can project charisma. Thus becoming a blunt tool to force political or social ideologies. As George Carlin once said: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups".
💯 My friends and I had zero conversations about race and rpgs when we played. The game was the game and everyone was welcome.
I really like that you emphasized the methodology and motivation. Representation isn’t inherently a bad thing, it’s the idea that a lack of it is intrinsically bad. It’s been corrupted.
I think the biggest sin is something you touched on, but didn’t really go in depth. It’s the dilution of diversity. As you said, collectivist group think ideology hurts people. Actual diversity of thought is the solution to that. Diversity isn’t merely having different skin tones, but actual substantive differences in thoughts, perspectives, and world views. It would be extremely boring and detrimental if all RPGS were fantasy. The diversity in genres, influences, styles etc are what makes rpgs unique and interesting. Ironically the crowd that champions “diversity” often misguidedly kill it.
The focus on superficial aspects distract many from digging deeper. And therein lies the problem.
A possible 4th trait would be "divisiveness", as in it serves to divide the RPG community along race lines. As one saying goes, "you get more of what you focus on". The more people decry the inadequacies of the racial compliment of RPGs, the more people declare (factual or not) how this race or that minority isn't being represented "enough" or "correctly" in a fictional setting, the result is people are mentally and emotionally focusing more on the divisions between the different, real world races/cultures/minorities of the players of the game than they are focusing on the playing of the game.
Oh man...I have to respond to this in the Viewer Comments video coming up in January. Having a hard time holding back now. Good on ya for this. 🙂
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
@@RPGElite Glad to be of help. Looking forward to your next installment on this topic. I really appreciate that you cover these socially contentious topics. You can speak where I (white guy) cannot without my race being thrown at me to disregard any point I might make. It's too easy to shut me down with accusations of racism. In a sense, you can be my voice where I would be shouted quiet. Thank you.
I miss the innocence of our old hobby, when it was just the nerds and it didn’t have corporate overlord sponsorship.
That's a bingo!
The cultural Marxists have to imagine the early days of the hobby were the Bad Old Days (because it justifies their take-over), and say frequently that we were evil racists where a po' little girl or Black or gay couldn't get ahead.
No, you young ignorant pups! We were OUTCASTS! We were even accused of being SATANISTS! If anybody got interested in the game and wanted to share our Outcast status, we loved it! We taught the hobby to ANYONE who wanted to learn.
TSR was a corporation from the start. There was never that more innocent time.
@@ChrisSham
Industry yes, the 'overlord' not so much.
At least not like today.
@@ChrisSham different company. Different time. Not the same.
And now at the 13 minute mark, I thank you because changing American Culture is what we need. And if we keep up teaching the truth, we may just change enough of it to make a difference.
I can not get enough of the truth you continue to drop!! 👍🏽
Thank ya kindly. Much love to ya. 👊🏿
Happy gaming.
If one is discussing truth bombs, our boy Servant is measured by the megaton. Can honestly say that your channel shines with the work, intellectual honesty, and courage you put into it.
Thank you kindly. That blesses me, my man. Wish you weren't across the pond. We could hang out for a bit. If that ever changes - me over there or you here - let's try to make it happen. 😉
Now, back to the haters. 🙄
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
@@RPGElite Absolutely. Covid and a new house has kept me from visiting the states and visit family for too long... When I can rectify that, I'll look ya up. We'll throw dice!
Well said
I never made the link between needing to see yourself 'reflected' in media and classical narcissism before. It seems intuitive now that you've mentioned it, and the driving of self worth through social media seems to have fed that. Thoughtful point. Thanks for the insight.
Thanks for the support. 👍🏿
I really appreciate the quote you wrote and think it's application goes far beyond TTRPGs. I think if your worldview isn't solid in something immovable you'll constantly be looking for the next thing to be fulfilled, such as representation.
I love when you drop the hard truths!
Well, at least there's one person who does. 😉
Thanks for the love. Happy gaming. 👊🏿
I think the most egregious example of this is the way the monkeyfolk race was treated in the new Spelljammer.
It's great to see someone other than RPGPundit talking about this, especially someone who's less of a culture warrior. Unfortunately, people like me don't have much capacity to move people on this issue since the people who need convincing have been conditioned to evaluate what a speaker says based on who his forefathers were and how many oppression points he has, not the actual validity of what he says. Thank you for standing up to this disturbing trend.
As a former, I can say you hit the nail on the head with your analysis. I left the woke cult about a year ago, not because my core values changed but because I saw it for what it was and realised that it's not truly a path to compassion. I hope more people wake up and choose to stop serving the narcissism you describe.
I think the most grossly insidious thing about the ideology is that it simultaneously empowers sociopaths while exploiting empathetic people.
The truths I'm hearing in this video are astounding. It's what people need to hear: the truth spoken fearlessly, candidly, and without apology.
Peace, Love, & Hairgrease...
As a long time player of "The Game that Shall not be Named", I think the most egregious "sin" is those folks who are weak. I see it so much in and around that game specifically. I have decided to move away from the parent company and start playing OSR versions.
I have mad respect for you, playing alternate RPG's. I have tried through the years and they have just never stuck with players for long term. So I always end up going back to the "Game that Shall not be Named". As I tend to play more fantasy based games.
I did have a decent run of FFG's Star Wars games and would not mind another run at those at some point, they are just so hard to get a hold of these days.
Wait is that game that shall not be named, FATAL, dota, LoL or some widely popular game that I haven't heard of?
@@tempy2440 You do know this is Tabletop Roleplaying games, right? I will give you a hint, it has Dragons in its name.
@@burgsrus I am well aware, just poking a little bit of fun at the un-naming of the game gygax used to run. As well as highlighting that it isn't any of the options I highlighted which tend to be the ones that spring to mind in the rocks I hide under.
@@tempy2440 :)
FFG star warss games reprint is coming out soon! by december 16th according to my local FLGS
I can't wait to see your video about the orcs.
Love your channel. I've boiled down your RPG Elite Philosophy into bullet points and put it up as guidelines going forward for my campaign, after a narcissistic player finally had enough of not getting their way and left us.
I have to say that the narcissist angle struck me very strongly. I had not looked at it that way before, but it very much aligns with the self-righteous "better than you" types that talk down their nose to people like me, who don't embrace the "wokening" of the game that shall not be named.
I'll say the narcissism aspect is probably the most egregious. We see it in full force with "advocates" and those with the White Savior mentality.
What kills me, as a white dude, is when the Hadozee controversy popped off I was accused of being bigoted. Here's the shorthand.
Hadozee are the Spelljammer monkey people that escaped their wizard overlord. Many people say this is racist because it uses black stereotypes. I point out that it's racist to compare black people to monkeys. I'm then flamed out of a couple discussions.
Doesn't matter that the Gith are very similar; these people think WotC is racist when they make that leap of logic on their own.
I had thought the Hadozee were a crossover of Star Frontiers' Yazirian race. I guess if someone is going to look for offense, they are going to find it.
@@gaiamancer the hadozee were from that initially I believe, but were then taken into the original spelljammer and then thusly added to the new spelljammer.
The Hadozee weren't compared to black people because they were monkey-like, the comparison was that they were a culture that whose identity revolved around being a formerly enslaved people.
I don't agree with a lot of these complaints about races in games. What we do need to strengthen our BS meter to pick up on, is when when there is generally a minor complaint, and the culture war anti-woke folk twist it into something that it never was, then rage about how bad things have become.
The Orcs are black is a prime example, they were never compared to black people by WotC. WotC said that in the game orcs carry many negative stereotypes, being inherently evil for example. Because real world groups of people also deal with negative stereotyping, WotC decided to end the stereotyping of orcs so as to not perpetuate that behavior in their game. That somehow turned into orcs are black, because certain people are not interested in being honest, when there is an opportunity to rile the base, and make people angry.
@@alexandriamason2355 I'm not trying to rile anything up, nor am I antiwoke or any other label you want to bring up.
If the enslavement was the only angle that mattered, then why were the Gith and Warforged not conpared to other enslzved cultures? The Hadozee were singled out because other people projected stereotypes onto them, then made it racial.
@@MySqueezingArm If you thought I was calling you out, I apologize for being unclear, I was not.
I think the Gith and Warforged would be an "issue" with some if they came out today, and I think that is stupid. It is a stupid that comes from a place of at least trying to mean well, but are slightly ignorant, so I generally shug it off and play my game.
My beef, if I have one, is with those that purposefully misrepresent things just to fuel the rage. Most of it is done for political reasons. Make folks mad about something frivolous, they won't see you poisoning their water, taking away their rights, ect.
RPGs are just not that important in the grand picture, but they are used as a useful tool of distraction.
So I am not entirely sure that I am picking up what you are putting down. Is the following an example of what you are talking about?
Funny you should mention a Modiphius game, MY0. I have done work for them in the past, some writing and editing on Achtung!, playtesting for several games, and worked on the Modiphius Calling podcast and live playtesting. Anyway, my team was tasked to do live playtesting for their Conan game many months before it was available to purchase and I thought, "Oh wow, a huge world with a heap of ethnic groups and every skin tone and nose shape already in the lore!" Being ethnically mixed I was excited to be able to explore a character from kinda Africa. So I made a character from a rural area in the Black Kingdoms and I used the Medieval Yoruba culture for his clothing and based his face on one of the Ife bronzes. I also have a Nigerian co worker at my day job so I picked his brain for clever turns of phrase and words of wisdom. Just to be clear, I did not use an accent during the live stream. Everything went well for the first 4ish episodes, viewer feedback was overwhelmingly positive, the 2 employees from Modiphius that we were working with loved it, one of them was from West Africa and the only non-white full time employee of the company. Then Chris, the owner of Modiphius, saw the 5th (If I remember correctly) episode. The word "ballistic" would well describe the way he went. He called us, not just me, racist, bigots, and stereotypers. (not even sure that is a word). He said I portrayed my character as the early Bugs Bunny cartoons portrayed Africans. To defend myself here I have to say the game system allows for one's wits to be as dangerous as one's brawn so I went for the brains over brawn build. Sort of a friendly always smiling, but trusts no one and cunning. He then said and I quote, "...you play this guy as some kind of Uncle Tom but buck-toothed and living in a straw hut." This struck me as odd. My character was a storyteller and full of clever anecdotes so maybe I could see the Uncle Tom comment, but would he have said that if the character had less melanin? I was feeling backed into a corner so I said, "Would you prefer if I play a Cimmerian Uncle Paddy with no teeth living in a straw hut?" So, he never spoke to me again.
It could be an example. But to have everything in context, watching the first video in the series helps.
Also, I don't believe I ever mentioned any Modiphius Games. TSR, Free League, Palladium, Monte Cook. No Modiphius.
And you're better off with that individual being out of your life. No loss there.
The long and the short of it is to to have an inordinate focus on race representation speaks to an individual who has some deep character issues and they need to take care of that first and stop projecting their misery onto others in the TTRPG community. Play the game or don't.
@@RPGElite Mutant Year Zero, one of my favorites
Verisimilitude is a big problem. Modern "remixing" of media leads to a lot of instances of stuff just not making any sense. It is difficult to buy into a "world" when the logic of the world's reality is distorted by outside ideological agendas.
If you are going to play a game set in 1400s Inuit ice world hunting adventure... an old Korean vegan woman named Brad just doesn't quite fit the scene. There is nothing bad about Koreans, women, vegans or Bradlies, but WHY are they in the frozen north in the 1400's???
Modern reality has, thankfully, mixed cultures and has naturally diversified over time, but the notion that things need to be retrofitted with "diversity" so that one legged people with red hair olive skin and big ears also get "seen" or "promoted" or "pushed" leads to a situation where everyone fits into a box, but also doesn't quite fit into the... right box. Infinite boxes of diversified humanity means no one is anything.
Apartheid (which I grew up under) was the ultimate end game of diversity boxing. Everyone gets their own special place and they can't mix... good idea? Absolutely not. An abhorrent stain on history. Every oppressive regime begins by defining who the "others" are, the untermenchen and how "they" must be dealt with. At some point, you end up on that list, usually through no fault of your own and wonder why your friends handed you over to the secret police?
😅 An old Korean vegan woman named Brad…I lost it. Great comment. Stellar. Thank you for that.
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
@@RPGElite He's a great lady, but a lousy Ice Hunter!
I think are a lot of well intentioned people out there trying to reassess how prejudices may have influenced the creation of various types of media, but tokenism (in my opinion) in TTRPGs is probably one of the worst results/outcomes of the faults you have listed. For me, its the interplay between unintentionally patronizing or condescending people creating art with particular types of narcissistic people in mind that is actually holding us back from being a more united community.
If you're reading this message, I hope you have a great week. Stay Elite!
While I love seeing *proper* representation (which can absolutely be provided by our own imaginations, but is lovely to see in artwork as well), it is definitely important to see the marketing, and sometimes well-meaning but ignorant steps taken. I once saw an older book on comic creation on making "Ethnic" superheroes, which displayed a very reductive outlook on what that meant and displayed some altogether unenjoyable stereotypes. That book was not made for the benefit of the people, it was made to sell copies based on a perceived improvement of marketability.
I tend to be one to tread carefully, but I really appreciate your blunt and honest analysis. Making efforts to breathe more life into the worlds we play in with broader representation is great where applicable, but it doesn't mean that a piece of work which didn't hit all of the bullet points of "virtue" is bad.
Of the Seven Deadly Sins, Pride is generally considered the worst because it justifies all of the others. You’re right on.
Sins are simply methods of control, tools to force someone else into submission and make them feel ashamed for their ambitions and drives
Hey there. Love your channel. I like to see people like you and myself who are true vets in this saying what honestly needs to be said. I literally was having this very debate when this video popped up. Kinda eerie LOL. Out of what you mentioned, I agree that #3 is the one most egregious. It's just the end product of the other 2 in a way. When you said "psychological damage" something popped into my head. I'm a Drug Counselor with some time behind me in the field. One of the many hats I have to wear is psychiatric. Also, I happen to have been running the original and still "problematic" game for 31 years. A lot of the issues that I keep seeing seem to root form an inability to differentiate fantasy from reality. Though I am not sure if that is included in this particular subject. Anways keep up the good work. You're inspiring me a whole lot to do my own thing here on TH-cam. :)
Thanks for the love my man. Appreciate the support. 🙂👊🏿
Very clear and based set of points made here. Amen! How did it take me 2 years to find this channel? You earned a subscription from me my man. Keep the great content coming!
Thank you for making this video and releasing it today. I have been experiencing exactly the type of behavior you have described in school recently. This seems to come up and time I bring up my project of a therapeutic interventions presented in a TRPG framework. Constantly called various phobic and ist names, followed by these of types leaving the conversation. I have been feeling discouraged by these types, however, watching this video was very validating. Thanks again.
I'm digging the Vaesen book in the background there. Every Free League book that I've bought has been absolutely top notch. Well done on the vids too. Great job. Nice to hear intelligent views being voiced on this topic.
Thanks for the love. And more Vaesen is coming. Keep it locked. 👊🏿
You do important vids, but I am glad you sprinkle in some game deep dives to lighten it up. Keep up the good work.
Thank you. I try to spread them out to maybe once a month. Let it simmer a bit before going back in. I enjoy it all. It all is a part of The Agenda.
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
Amazing pair of videos on this topic so far. Love your channel, man.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...game recognizes game and fans recognize fans. Tabletops let their games be infiltrated by people that do not GAME and are not FANS. Gatekeeping is a good thing.
Black? White? Asian? Indian? Atlantean? Martian? I don't care if you're a fan and you want to game...but when you sit down and your first input is "So this is what should be changed"? Yeah no. They are not fans. They're subversive, attention-seeking ideologues. They're toxic.
Well done!I don't know if I have ever commented on a video before, normally I watch youtube on my Apple TV, but I felt I should get drop a comment.This was just next video in the algorithm queue, didn't know who you were but anyone that has Alternity on their shelf has to know something! Then you drop the 3E GammaWorld and TMNT references so I had to subscribe!
Oh, you know, it's on like Donkey Kong up in here when it comes to the classics. I have MUCH planned in that department. Thanks for the support and keep it locked.
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
After watching one of your videos, TH-cam has recommended several more. I want to express my sincere thanks for helping me feel like I can finally understand more clearly a bunch of stuff that has just... mystified me for some time.
I recommended your channel to my oldest friend.
Thanks for the encouragement. I greatly appreciate it. 🙂👍🏿
The most egregious is those that scream Eurocentrism in fantasy is wrong but then they'll scream about cultural appropriation if you create or play a setting for another ethnicity if you're not that ethnicity. It goes to show you just how insidious this cult is. It's not about representation, it's about total control. They also messed up with this space because new, better content is being produced independently all the timr
While all 3 traits are bad, I'm not certain one is worse than the other, but they are worse when combined. Appreciate your thoughts, keep up the good work!
I think that there are two things that are the most egregious:
One...the Narcissism. You covered it very well. In a way much better than I have been able to do so.
And Two: You touched on it briefly... It's the unfair, unfounded, and untrue accusations that get aimed at innocent people. I have heard so many accusations that the game culture before the influx of "The Cool Kids" as I call it, was somehow toxic and evil... and so much worse at times.
And unless people get with the new program, they should not be playing because they are guilty of all these bad things. It's heartbreaking. It's divisive. It's just... in my opinion... wrong.
I don't want to drone on. What I can say is that i have truly appreciated your videos. Thank you for speaking out.
Its certainly a contentious issue. I think that corporations are having to do the work to make narratives publicly acceptable for a world audience when a lot of it was based in 1920s xenophobic pulp stereotypes of the hostile foreigner in mysterious Africa and Mongolia. Personally I like things that were introduced in the DND Plane Shift supplements of having geographic rather than racial features, such as if you were a mountain man you might have different physiology than if you were raised in a fishing village, and a little more robust than just skills from your background.
Thank you. I feel the same way. It’s very different when it’s a natural fluid part of the story and not disruptive and forced.
If you feel under represented in the game you are playing, maybe it says more about who you are playing with. Cause most game groups play in their own worlds, rule books are references game groups pick and choose items to add to the world. Or use it to inspire ideas for it.
As a white south american guy, I like playing RPGs to learn more of other cultures. It's an immersive experience, and the research for doing a good roleplay is always illuminating.
With that in mind, I always wondered why there's no TTRPG set in the pre-colonial african civilizations. It'd be an interesting learning experience, IMHO.
Another pet peeve for me: not enough asian cultures and mithologies. We have dozens of RPGs dealing with a few pantheons (mostly greco-roman, egiptian, a little norse and a sprinkling of celtic), and almost nothing about chinese, indian or the more "exotic" religions (say, vietnamese or central african - everybody knows aoutAnansi, but what about the other supernatural creatures of that folklore?)
Any thoughts?
Check out Design Mechanics Mythic Earth product line..they have Mythic Babylon and Mythic Polynesia. Also check out Jackals..set in a Bronze Age Near East.
@@laneharner4476 thanks
Check out Ki Khanga, I’m not a fan of resolution system tho
Interesting video. The points about self-righteousness are annoyingly accurate.
Looking forward to hearing your views on the orc-related issues.
Thanks for the love. Much more coming down the pike. Stay tuned.
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
Curious, Servant of Shiloh: you mentionned that you're gonna cover the 'Orcs are black people' argument, were you planning to cover the Drows as well ?
Drizzt/Drow fan stuff including cosplays were the tabletop trend back when i played 3.0 of 'that game', and in former editions it was really seen more of a 'glam rock/hair metal' vibe with their former look. Pretty sure those cosplayers never had the intent to hurt black communities when doing drow costumes, and just wanted to share their craft for a race they'd liked. But now there is a lot more triggering from those activists including the removal of a Community episode where Chang portrayed one. I have my own take on it but i'd be curious for you to share yours.
If time permits, I'll tackle both in one video. But you know me. I like to cover details most would think are irrelevant and me rambling. It's me being thorough. Most people have the attention span of a gnat today, so they can't sit and listen to anything longer than a soundbite. This is definitely not the channel for them.
It'll be a few months. Around March/April. But it's coming. 👊🏿
It's a shame that the Pizza Hut BookIt! program is doing more to get rpg books in the hands of black youth than Wizards of the Coast.
A shame, but not surprising. 😉👍🏿
We need more discussion like this in our hobby.
Thanks for sticking around. Much appreciated. 👊🏿
I love how you actually call us caucasians. I've been having an issue with the term "white" for some time now. White is a color. Caucasian is the heritage. Great content!!!
1000th like! I wish I could game with you my friend. RP is the thing.
Great job!
I enjoy your channel so very much.
Glad you enjoy it. You're one of a few. Thanks for the love.
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
I’ve never had to deal with this at any table I’ve played at, and I’ve played at a mixed racial table before. How do we have people seeing Orcs as black people? When there are black people (PEOPLE) in the game.
The word race needs redefined in the game, and have species then race. Elf is a species, and drow or wood or high elves are the race. Human is the species, and Calishite, Tethyrian, Damaran, Mulan, Illuskan, Rashemi, and Chondathan are the race.
To summarize, smart people only see people and judge each by their character. Dumb people see color and segregate them by that or religion or sex…
Dropping the word "race" in favor of "species" solves so many issues. Ancestry and heritage are both too close to race - SPECIES is the most accurate descriptor for the difference between elves and men and 4-armed space ants.
@@havokmusicinc I agree %100. One of my counters to the argument that showing the differences (mostly in character creation) in the nonhuman "races" in fantasy games begets racism is that they are NOT HUMAN. As in not homo sapiens. They might look similar to humans but an elf is not a human and likely a completely different worldview. Use of the word species is already a descriptor in certain sci fi games that I know of. Not sure why fantasy games can't follow suit.
I don't follow the latest edition of "The Game that Shall not be Named" and some of the old schoolers complain about so much other stuff I did not realize this was a real issue.
I bought some "Basic Fantasy" stuff based on the reviews, because it bills itself as "old school", and later on during some follow-up videos, I noticed that people were saying things like, "I'm glad there's no politics in this book!" And as I understand it, what they mean is, "I'm angry that D&D doesn't let me be as racist/bigoted/misogynistic/hateful as I want to be!" Because there is no politics in either game. There wasn't any politics in the original 1970's game. People who use the word "politics" are using it incorrectly.
@@paulcoy9060 I disagree slightly. the issue is also that these games are also very political themselves anyway. It's like saying "I'm glad there's no politics in call of duty!" It's a game about war lol. These games always have some thing about how X race hates X race and how X monstrous humanoid race is evil and killed on sight. That's hella political.
And the whole "I'm glad there's no politics in this " = "I'm glad this media let's me be as bigoted as I want to be!" thing is a classic. Seen it a bunch lol.
@@Lycaon1765 Maybe my problem is that as a child, my Mom drove my brother and me to play with the only black kids in town (Rhode Island) so that seems normal, and growing up watching Star Trek where everybody got along, and not having any problems in my life where I can blame anybody else for them like "they took my job!" or "they're bringing crime!", I'm really not clued in to viewing anyone as "The Other". Maybe I'm just naive, but I think we can actually all just get along.
Except for people who hate cats, they need to go.
Curious what you didn't like about the end of Avengers: Endgame, if you don't mind elucidating
If I had to guess, it would be related to the passing of the mantle of Captain America. While I think it was a logical choice, in hindsight I have to wonder about the motives of the producers.
@@mikeb.1705 This would be my guess also. As Marvel/Disney was being lazy with the casting of a black man as Captain America. When Falcon was a original black superhero with a rich story. It is just sloppy seconds to pass the mantle of another hero onto Falcon. There was also the female superhero scene that kind of set the stage for our current phase. Plus Captain Marvel outdoing all of the male heroes, including the Hulk and Thor. Those last few might be me projecting a bit of my own opinions. lol
could have also been the "Girl Power" pose moment in the final battle, which was so pandering to be cringe-worthy
@@mikeb.1705 I think that was the logical choice too. Actually in the comics it happened in 2014.
Also probably Chris Evans wanted to play other roles
I love your point of view. Wish more shared it openly. The truth is we are all the same race / species. We just have cultural and environmental adaptations. Not that these are less in any way when looked upon our individual development or background. Sad to see the decisiveness in the gaming community...
Most excellent! I greatly appreciate your speaking out to this issue, for if I try to discuss this I am summarily dismissed, if not outright ostracized.
As for the 'orcs' argument, my wife and I came up with the counter argument as such. If Drow are 'evil' because they are black, then high elves are 'white supremacists' as they i) are xenophobic, ii) consider themselves superior to all other peoples' including other elves and iii) often separate and isolate themselves. If the former is problematic, then so is the latter, which doesn't seem to being scrubbed out of the rules and lore.
The issue with the counter argument is that the people saying "orcs and drow are black" would agree with you, and say that WotC's acceptance of this lore just shows their racism.
@@Lycaon1765 You would think that, but that is not the case. They get quite flustered and can't seem to know which way to turn.
😆 *I LOVE THIS VIDEO!* I wish more people would step up and say it. 😃👍
Another home run, sir.
Outstanding!
Right on point! I find it so risible that games shun from the word races and rely on ancestries or species (the latter brings up the question of offsprings in my mind). Also the mechanical adjustments now have to be all + god forbids to say there is a - somewhere... And i don't get how chosing the offset point is now an issue.... Damn the level of insecurity!
Unsubscribe? Granted my "representation" has been HFA but how is disliking tokenism and pandering via "inclusion" a reason to unsubscribe? Good work, keep it up.
This was a particularly powerful video, and it’s obvious that it’s heartfelt from you, thank you. Also, you might want to consider seeing top gun: Maverick. It was a pretty decent movie, no hidden agenda, and a lot of fun.
I'd love to have you at my table just because if you can crush this topic so thoroughly I'd love to see what you'd do to my boss fights :D Well spoken, eloquent and on point.
The end of that video went hard. That's the first time I wished I could like a video 4 times in such a short time span.
Thank you much. I'll have to suggest the multiple thumbs-up option. 😉
Trait 3 weakness is the the most vile because a weak minded individual are the ones that fall for any of this b.s. and they get their insecurities "acknowledged and affirmed" but then are told they don't have to deal with their problems, it's the "other" people that should take care not to offend you. Horrible. They are saying "stay a baby, never struggle, never fail, never learn from your mistakes, oh and by the way you're a victim it's "them" over there..." We have one life to live and it's said that people have been mentally f'ed with just to subscribe to an ideology of weakness and being a servant of evil, because that is what it is, evil. To ruin young people's lives and have them be weak so you can be telling them everything to do, say, or believe - evil.
Only halfway through the video so it may be addressed there, but constant knee bouncing is a common tick amongst those with ADHD. Just mentioning it because you said it's indicative of a nervous childhood which seems somewhat tenuous in my own ADHD childhood. I just couldn't stop moving, even when I was calm and confident. Having not seen the film I can't fully argue against your observation as I don't know if that character had ADHD as part of their characterisation.
Man i ran into a meme group in facebook called "Chaotic Good DnD Memes". I figured id see some funny positive jokes based on happy stuff in DnD.
Got in the group and it was proLGBT, woke, trans, diversity, all the extremist checkboxes.
They had a post praising WoTC for changing orcs due to them representing Black people. I posted my disagreement about it and how it was a mockery, and racist to associate us to orcs in the first place. We are clearly Dragonborn, duh!
But these people came out in droves with adhominum attacks. White women refering to me as "lost" or "Uncle Tom" etc. People assuming im full on evil conservative.
What was even worst is that the people in the group refered to themselves as "chaotic good" in real life. These people "mostly White women" stated that i couldnt be virtuous or chaotic good because i had a conservative viewpoint on things. It was the most absurd cultlike logic i had ever seen in any facebook group. And i have see 3% pages, pro confederate groups, and blatant White Supremist groups that made more sense than these people. The people in this "chaotic good" group swore i wouldnt last long because i would be triggered by all their virtuous deeds and good thinking as opposed to my bad conservative thought. Mind you, im politically nuetral "Black first" positioned individual in my politics. These people were just stereotyping me because i found their diversity stance on race in these games offensive and patronizing.
You are so correct in stating that these people with these mindsets are embracing evil. The treatment i get online by people aligned this way is far worst than anything in real life. Even New Jersey cops treat me with more respect.
My man…this comment…I will have to take some time and respond to it in my next viewer comment video in January. It won't be the whole thing but the main points of it. Thank you so much for telling your experience. Appreciate it.
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
@@RPGElite Sure. For clarity in your research the group was called "Chaotic Good Tabletop Roleplaying Memes". It looks like their original group is under review by FB. (Probably because the people are crazy) Their admins silently had me unfollow them, but not kick me from their group. I think they knew i was a ticking time bomb for them if they booted me from the group outright. So i ended up staying in it and not seeing their post unless i actively searched them.
I have some screenshots of the conversation if youd like to see them.
Happy gaming!
You aren't wrong, and you made some good point. Some of us are weak though. I'm white, but I'm trans and gay, so maybe representation is different when it comes to race, but I like when games add representation. It makes me feel good to see, it scratches an itch that I can't quite articulate.
On the other hand, I don't need it, and I wouldn't fault a game for only having straight characters mentioned because, yeah, we can just add our own, it's very doable. TTRPGs are unique in that you can make them to fit to what you want to see. Your argument, from what I understand, is that people can enjoy stories about characters who aren't like them, and you can just let a game be a game, and add whatever representation they want anyway, so game companies are just doing it for the show and it's dumb and patronizing. And there is truth to that.
Except that I think some of the examples you pointed out are not meant in that way. And you might make the argument intentions don't matter but consider in a game like cyberpunk: black people aren't going to go extinct. There might be a cultural shift and the way we talk about melanin and ethnicity night be different, and yeah race is kind of a social construct, but there's no way any game set in the space future isn't gonna have people with darker than average skin. And any planet that has any spread of civilization across the latitudes is probably going to have variation in skin color. And artists want to make their characters look different. They want to draw people who are black or Asian looking with different facial features and skin tones, because that's the nature of humanity, and visually interesting.
And yeah, demanding representation from big media companies is kind of dumb, when you could just make your own games if it bugs you that much, but I think adding darker skin in art here and there in the book is relatively harmless. That's just my two cents.
It feels like the last two go hand in hand, with the first being the impetus of two and three. I agree with your thesis, but why do you think this ideology has come about? It does not seem to be limited to TTRPGs.
For the question at the end, it has to be the promotion of weakness. Culturally, the idea of fragility being a virtue has been embraced and man, that does not make for a healthy culture... Especially when the best way to demonstrate your fragility is to bash your nose against another's hands.
I could talk about this for far too long. Believe it or not, I held back in this video. I really did. I'm sure it will find its way into another video. But the abject weakness of the culture at large is indicative of a plethora of a million issues we face globally. I can't stand it.
Brilliant piece and a great description of the current climate and the mainstream invasion into this space.
Love these videos. Keep 'em coming!
Will do. Thanks for the love. 👊🏿
Oh I thought we were going to talk about min maxing affecting player builds over fun. Like why wouldn't you pick something with dark vision in dnd and pathfinder?
Wow the way you breakdown these hot button topic is awesome Thank You so much for sharing.your opinion on this.
Yeah been saying for a while it's your game your time and choice just don't play, find another group or refactor parts you don't like.
Keep doing you!
You are so welcome and thanks for the love. 😊
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
Your videos are always fantastic: well thought out and well presented as always. Gay white male here, mostly on the GM side of the table, and not a fan of token representation at all. It feel like I can't get through an adventure w/o bumping into a random minot LGBT+ NPC. It's not that I object to inclusion, but it always feels hollow to me. The sexuality of the NPC is superfluous to the story as is their skin color most of the time.
If I want a LGBT+ character in the game I'm more than capable of adding it in myself if it will fit the story. Seeing a random minor shop keeper check an inclusion box on some corporate style guide just feels like a cheap and easy PR play to try and get some dollars out of whatever subset of people the representation checkbox is aimed at today.
Companies include these token characters to appease, exploit and misdirect. Real inclusion wouldn't need to be virtue-signaled it would occur naturally and without fanfare.
I'd not heard about the Orcs thing until recently (in the last year or so) and I'm unsure how that leap was made, but I'm really glad you are making these videos. The one thing I'd like (and if you already made a video on it, just point the way) is some advise on how Caucasians can bring these things up and promote the truth of what you are saying without it sounding like "white man 'splaining".
Love you brother Have a blessed week. we are all one people in sin.
For real-la. God bless you and keep you. 👊🏿
Love the video. We have to remember that most of these type of people are educated by the public school system. The public school system teaches group think, and whatever the group thinks is right.
Never in all my years of gaming did I think of orcs as black people or even dark skinned, nor do I remember ever seeing them illustrated that way. I've seen them pink, pale, green, pig-like, but never black or Afro. There is zero correlation to real black people or racist tropes. They live in caves, not jungles. They wear mail and wield European weapons and clothing and use some of the most modern technology of their myth. It's hard to imagine that the person who invented this slander had any honest intention.
I’ve never understood representation. You aren’t playing you in a RPG. You’re playing a character. Maybe one you identify with but it’s never you. My favorite race in rpg is the Drow race. Yeah yeah yeah Drizzt is my dude. He represented me in the Hunter trilogy. As in he was the character I identified with most. Not Wulfgar or Regis. And it’s because he had traits I admired not skin I worshipped as a false idol. It bothers me how much we have gone back to identifying ourselves based on our melanin level vs our unique individual traits and characteristics or our beliefs or our common goals. It’s like we are just surrendering to the idiots.
Totally nailed it! 👌
Respect +100
Watched all of it now and there's definitely many points I agree on. The bit where I'm in disagreement is the blanket statement of players exploring their beliefs in a game is weak. TTRPGs are an amazing chance to explore and challenge in safety for those who aren't sure of themselves *to become stronger*in those beliefs or to change them without fear of harm to become their authentic selves.
Not everyone is as far down the path of self knowledge to be able to even know they're making mistakes. They have to "sin" in order to be able to equate it to their own awareness of the world. From what you are saying (and I acknowledge I might be getting the wrong end of the stick) this first step must always be in the right direction, even if the direction isn't known, and somehow this is "weak"? Surely taking the wrong step in a game is favourable to taking the same wrong step in real life?
I miss when the only disclaimer was "These rules are just guidelines." Paraphrased of course.
It's so unfortunate that the world has come to a place where this has to be said, but I'm grateful to you for saying it. I couldn't agree more with your assessment. Thank you for making this video.
White(trash) UK guy here, with a pretty good race/gender mix at my table, 3x "white" players 3x not... we've talked about race and... my example - as someone that's eagerly awaiting the Dungeon Alchemist "snow" update - we're playing Rime of the Frostmaiden and none of my maps have snow - "Hey guys, it's a game of imagination *Please imagine SNOW".
I DM, I imagine what my PC's look like based of their art and I'm sure we've each got that all round.
What you as the player present to me as your character portrait - is my start point. How you RP your character is the flesh on the bone - we're all gathered to have fun. Black, Asian, White-folk - we can all sit round for 4+ hours, maybe have a beer, talk some about our personal lives, how the world is... none of us are that different, we're all nerds - that like reading nerd stuff and watching nerd stuff - we come together because our timezones work out.
As a DM I've asked some questions "This NPC's a Fey from Chult - I don't want to tread on any toes, (I can't do voices - I suck as a DM at this, so I just don't) - but I don't want to offend anyone, so I'm just gonna do the NPC as I imagine her" and it's good, we're pretending - together. I've got no ill intent, but if I need to learn something, or change something - we discuss it like adults, because we're all there to have fun - as friends (now), we've gotten to know each other and "hell, I'm a better person for knowing the Black heritage Brazilian dude".
...and it's just nice - biggest "argument" at my table's Imperial Vs Metric Measurements ;)
What I find most offensive about this "D&D needs more diversity" push has been how much it has retconned history. If you actually look at D&D settings from the TSR setting, they include multiple human ethnic groups representing a vast array of human ethnic groups from the real world to the fictitious in their skin, eye and hair tones, and none of them are ever treated as distinctly superior or inferior. I could write thousands of words talking about the different ethnicities of Mystara, Greyhawk, Dragonlance and the Forgotten Realms, but whatd be the point?
This is also found in the need of some to include things like being handicapped in RPG. When I read fantasy or play D and D I see no need for things like that. If someone wants to play that cool but in worlds where people come back from the dead and all why would handicaps be an issue? I have a mild form of Cerebral palsy and have no need to be represented when I play a game, mostly because that one small issue does not define me. Thank you for saying this and sorry for ranting on your page. I owe you a drink.
You are fine, sir. The comment section is for this very thing in this way.
Kudos and happy gaming. 👍🏿
The most egregious of the three in my opinion, would be the pandering.
I am what the political groups, businesses and govt seek when it comes to "minority insert". I'm very well aware of it. Either I had a friend that would call me out as "not dark enough" or had a community that cried "not trans enough" or "not lgbt enough". I even had some disgusting garbage people hit me up saying how I wasn't "doing enough" when I was assaulted. Even in my career, I hate it when my hard work and dedication to what I do is under questioned because I'm a minority among my minority coworkers.
I love to play TTRPGs because they're about story, exploration, experience (with my group and leveling), and the fun I can get to do something I can't do in real life. I already have to deal with enough nonsense at my job or when my child informs me of the day's big news. Not in my games.
Wow.
I am a cishet White man, who has taught English and ESL in a VERY diverse public high school for over 25 years. My wife is a POC, and of course our kids are, too. The vast majority of the time in my life, I am the only White person in the room. At work, I very often hear people speaking in languages that I cannot understand. At home, the same thing happens. And my father's first language was not English, so I grew up with a measure of that as well.
None of that bothers me. At all. In fact, I rather enjoy it. And when I look at White people who would find any of it to be difficult to deal with - my thoughts about them are that they are pretty pathetic. And our society applauds this view.
But it doesn't applaud when I hold the same view of people who aren't White - and of COURSE I do.
That being said, I recognize that for many (if not most) people, seeing representation in the form of heroes and role models who look like them, characters who look like them, is important.
I can see that.
But I can also see that - for the BEST of people - it isn't.
Good video.
I don't understand what this video is about regarding RPGs, are you saying that if I want to play a black character in Greyhawk or MERP then what? I'm weak?
No. You missed the point of the video. I'm saying the opposite. Play what you want.
Excellent content. Thank you. This is going to sound so minor, but I've really been going back and forth recently on what skin colour to paint a mini for a character in a game. We're playing Warhammer RPG 4th Ed. Using the main rules and the (pretty damn excellent) Starter Box. One of the pregens in the SB is depicted as being black in the character artwork. I'm painting a mini for the PC but the depicted skintone doesn't make sense to me. He's called Ferdinand Gruber and was born in the Reikland. If the picture hadn't shown him as black then it never would have occurred to me that he wasn't white. I know it's tokenism on the publisher's behalf - they're trying to tap in to that D&D 5E market - I get it. But the amount of soul-searching I have done on what colour skin to paint the mini has been nuts. If I go against the prescribed artwork will people think it's because I secretly harbour prejudices? If I go against what I know about the Empire's in-groups will I be capitulating to a manipulative ideology? Jesus! What a mess.
Your video helped immensely. Ferdinand, in mini form anyway, will be Caucasian. I wonder if there will be any fallout at the table next week? If there is I'm linking your video to the Discord. Shift the blame 😀.
I don’t recall many hero pictures/paintings with any other race than white folk.
Granted the artists were mainly white…they did toss in drow elves….but they never made much attempt at adding different real races and their lore.
Again, the crew was mainly white and targeting young white males.
Today, this should have been addressed.
Why couldn’t there be a dark skinned Elvish race or African history medieval heroes.
You got a point.
Ignorance isn't a Sin... *Willful Ignorance* is.
Want to run; hardly. I'm just happy there is someone the room who discusses 'race' related topics like an adult.
Inclusivity is the new "Satanic Panic"! Good food for though for every game designer to consider about anything, from race to creed and beyond.
I knew me subscribing to your channel after discovery one of your videos a few weeks ago would be a good idea. 👍
11/10 would watch again
Me too. If I could give the video more than one thumbs up, I'd do it.
There are people like this in music programs through out our colleges. I don't understand it. I had a coworker relate what he over heard classmates say in his music courses. They did not think classic composers like Beethoven were relevant because they were white.
I think the #1 problem with many RPGs is when someone sits down to play their idea of the stereotype of a subgroup.
Every Dwarf is gruff, every Elf is haughty and condenscending.
With them reinforcing the notion of thinking in stereotype.
...
Revenge of the Nerds is a silly movie of Nerd stereotypes - fun but NOT REAL.
From there, well, it got me thinking about a lot of stuff and not only the stereotype asserted in print but also what got added at the table.
Revelatory of the overall thought process of that person.
I have dealt with assumptions of the stereotype of being a nerd, of the stereotype of being a homosexual, and the stereotype of a homosexual who is also a nerd.
I may be rambling by now.
I would like this video a thousand times, if I could.
Thank you kindly for your support. Appreciate the love. 😊
Happy gaming. 👊🏿
Powerful discussion, lots to digest.
Im Mexican, and have travel some contries in ameriaca and europe, and the most racis society is un the USA. is the onli place i heer the term "cultural apropiation". maybe because they dont like people mix. in my game Elf hare like mayans, dwarfs are like "Villistas", Eladrins came from the see, the Orks are like spanish conquistadors, Goblisn are Trasgos, and Halflings are Chaneques, etc. etc. and nobody cares what the oficial gamerules say. is just a game.
It's a sad but unfortunate reality that we deal with. It's ridiculous and has sinister undertones, but we're still going to put the Leet perspective out there. Slowly but surely, more peeps will get on board. Some never will. But now, we have a small community and that's saying something.
Happy gaming. 👊🏿