ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2017
- After raising his third Stanley Cup and being awarded his second Conn Smythe to add to his already impressive accomplishments, Tim and Sid discuss where Sidney Crosby ranks among the all-time greats.
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January 1st, 2011 worst day of the modern nhl. During the season before that dreadful winter day, Sid had 32 goals and 66 poinnts in 41 games. He was on pace for 131 points and 63 goals. David Steckle robbed fans out of what would have been the best Sidney Crosby season.
1.crosby
2.sidney Crosby
3.sid
4.sid the kid
5.the next one
Both Wayne and Mario have said Sid would have put up 160 to 200 points a season in their era, easily.
big diff between 160 and 200
EAZY yes. And Ovechkin would score about 80-90 per season.
Easily! Guys in the 40's somehow transported through time to now, would look like lost puppies on the ice. The NHL is so fast and the guys are so talented now.
True true . Things have moved on ! The donkey in it's time did preaty good , Until the trucks showed up! Can't compare !
Bla bla.... The difference with Gretzky is he was so dynamic and intelligent he would have invented ways to destroy the competition regardless of era. Gretzky has SIXTY ONE nhl awards, he had 4 straight seasons where he lead the league but lead the #2 guy was 70 points behind 99. When Sid lead the league, he beat #2 by a handful of points at most.
I would pick Gretz, Mario, and Orr over Sid.
I put Sid slightly above Sakic and Yzerman..... slightly better.
Remember when these guys said Crosby was done, lol
such a piegon that guy..... Just flapping is big mouth all the time
@@francoiscote7878 yea i can't stand that stupid idiot lol
Wasn’t just them at the time, after all those head injuries in that short amount of time I think a lot of people thought he was close to being finished. Glad to see all these years later he’s still one of the best
Tim and Sid: It's hard to win cups in the salary cap era
Also Tim and Sid: Ignore salary cap era when ranking all time greats
I'm pretty sure he's top 3-5 in points per game all time in an era where it's much harder to score points
However in recent years, it's been getting easier to score. Course, most of his career wasn't in recent years, but the data becomes less consistent as you get close to today
Dineth Altmann you are stupid if you think there is more scoring now then there was back in the day
AM34 I'm saying that it's beginning to turn into a more scoring focused league, since Bettman is trying to remove a bulk of the physicality. I'm not saying that it's as offensive-minded today, but it could be so in the near future
Tom Witner he's #1
No he's 6th in the all time list actually (pts per game that is)
They forgot to mention his world championship and world junior as well.
I really don't think he should get credit for winning hardware with team canada. That team is LOADED and nobody ever beats them..
@@victormkelley He got the golden goal
I personally think Crosby is the greatest player to ever step foot on a sheet of ice because 1st off, if he was playing in the Gretzky/Lemieux era he'd be putting up 300 points a season. If people look at his style of play, you'd automatically agree with me. Doing everything he's doing right now in the salary cap era is insane. Some people don't realize if Crosby didn't miss 2 full seasons with injuries, he would've hit 1000 points at 26 or 27, that would be 2 years after Gretzky hit it (24 years old) but for him to put up the numbers before the age 30 is insane. He's the GOAT in my opinion.
Ankle Breaker Yeah but Gretzky dominated the league by a long shot and even if it was a easy time to play why wouldn't anyone else be as good as Gretzky?.
300 points a season, with all his concussion issues, sounds like you've had a few too many hits to the head
I completely agree. Theres a difference between skill and greatness. As far as greatness goes, wayne and lemieux beat crosby. As far as pure skill goes, crosby is the best to ever lace up, this shouldnt even be a debate.
Wikipedia Mario Lemieux's name and read the names that say he was the most talented to ever play the game, one on one, in the open ice, Lemieux is easily the most skilled hockey player of all time, there has never been a 6'4(6'6 with skates on) center do what he did, you're right...there is no debate
@@cityofchamps66 idk about that, crosby's overall skill is second to none. In my opinion, if you put lemieux on a team of mediocre players in todays league, he wouldnt be able to bring them as far as if you put crosby on the same team of mediocre players.
Jagr is so underrated
Jagr was never a big game player, he won 2 Stanley Cups in his first 2 seasons while riding shotgun for Mario Lemieux. After that, he never made it to the finals again. If Marcel Dionne cannot be mentioned among the greats of all time due to the fact that he never got past the 2nd round of the playoffs, Jagr shouldn't either for similar reasons, Ovechkin is another one in that category. Yes, they have the point totals, it's the hardware they are missing.
Jorrma Ollila
Jagr is coming back to the Pens for a cup run next year
Tom Witner That would be beyond epic
gymguy25 Seriously, don't compare Jagr to second-rate players like Ovechkin. Seriously.
Yeah he is but you have to remember how long it took him to get all those points.
I'm sorry but he's #2 behind Gretzky. Not taking anything away from Orr, Howe, or Mario, but the things sid is doing in this era with the level of youth and talent PLUS the salary cap era is just unreal
i agree
Harrison Schulz no way
Harrison Schulz I disagree
Harrison Schulz are you KIDDING ME?????
He dosent even dominate the league like they did before!!!
He is litterally just saying Lumieux, Orr, and Howe are nothing compared to Crosby. Harrison, your answer is bullshit.
Crosby is clearly the greatest of all time.
So far i love these guys, great dynamics and great chemistry
A good way to make the list of greatest nhl players of all time is make the list into a tier list.
Tier 1
Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Gordie Howe, Maurice Richard, Bobby Orr, Jean Beliveau, Mike Bossy.
Tier 2
Sidney Crosby, Jaromir Jagr, Mark Messier, Alex Ovechkin, Mike Modano, Bobby Hull, Howie Morenz.
Tier 3
Doug Harvey, Connor Mcdavid (He is close to moving up to tier 2 but not yet), Joe Malone, Stan Mikita, Joe Sakic, Sergei Fedorov, Steve Yzerman.
the one thing everyone cam agree is no matter the era Gretzky is the best......take all of his goals away and he is STILL the overall points leader by more then 100 points
1. Gretzky 2. Lemiuex 3. Orr 4. Howe 5. Crosby
shouldnt be debated either with what crosby has accomplished with the lack of scoring in this era.
lemieux over orr?
*Objection! JOHN SCOTT, ALL STAR GAME MVP*
Mathieu Gibson praise it man
Lemieux is the best player to ever play the game.
Imagine Crosby playing in the 80s holy smokes 3000 points 100% his skating ability and stick handling would dominate
LOL, obviously you don't know hockey.
Gretzky, Lemeiux, Orr, Bossy, Crosby
My Top 5.. wasn't alive to see Orr play unfortunately
How many games a season did the 'Classic' era player skate?
What was the average size of the 'Classic' era players?
What was the speed of the 'Classic' era players?
Daniel Burgess I know this is an old comment, but you have to understand during the classic era, (I’m talking about 40s 50s) everyone was really good. Like very good. Maybe not the goalies but the shooters were pro.
Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Crosby
Howe
How is better than crosby tho
swap mario and bobby
@@nickburton7897 Howe was so good because of a lot of things, he was so versatile. That being said, I don't think I've honestly ever seen a player do what Sid did/does. The balance of strength, precision and most importantly IQ, it's a really scary combo. Gretzky had the IQ but he never had the physicality, Lemieux had the skill and physicality but never quite had the IQ, Orr was way ahead of his time and you could warp him into the future to today and he'd still be an amazing player. I'm not saying he's the goat, but you could honestly make a hell of an arguement for it.
Crosby is definitely top 5. The thing about Crosby is not that he could score goals, put up points, but he has the 200 feet game. He plays defensively, he blocks shots, wins faceoffs, does every little thing to help his team win. He's also clutch and performs best when it matters most. But we lost a lot of Crosby after that Steckel hit. Crosby has suffered numerous concussions since, lost almost 2 years of playing time, and still came back to perform as the best player on the planet. Imagine Crosby at 100% never been concussed version. He'd be putting up 120 points per season and 50 goals easy. People don't realize that all this greatness we've seen from Crosby has only been a Crosby at about 80-85% level. That's why to me, he's right up there with Mario, Gretz, Orr....arguably even better considering the times in which he is playing (much harder to score and compete against better opposition).
Crosby is in the top 5 for sure
I still don't know how Mario is behind Gretsky. A living tank and look what he has done as president too.
a healthy Mario would blow Gretzky out of the water
Hockey Night in Canada is the real champ here.
I'd say #87 is top 5. My heart can't put him ahead of #66
I (of course) never saw Rocket play, but Sid is so dominant in a league full of elite players.
Oh... and he's 29 (nearly 30). So, let's see how the next 5-10 years play out.
Sid is a genuine talent, an overall talent. He can carry a team to win a Cup, he can inspire a team to win a Cup. Richard was the same way. Gretzky was not. Orr was, Lemieux was, Beliveau was, Lafleur was, Messier was, Roy was. Its not just how talented you are, its how you can inspire a group of players to play over their heads consistently to win the championship.
You have to put him up there further. The unreal things he does in a game now that is harder and more balanced he does everything the guys did when goalies weren't good and players weren't good. The sport has grown so much and Crosby is still lighting the game up. Put him behind Gretzky he hasn't taken gretzky's spot simply bc when you think of hockey you think of Gretzky
2nd after the great one. He has dominated hockey. At its most athletic. Fastest and demanding time. All respect to the others. But to do what he did in the decade he did it.... Outstanding.
for anyone who can't remember back to 2005 analysts had crosby in the hall of fame before he ever stepped into the NHL...and they were right- and my top 4 starts with patrick roy.
Crosby is a generational player so I would say that either puts him in the top 5 or right next to it. not really fair to compare him to a guy like Rocket Richard or even Jagr, but the gap between Crosby and the rest of the league over the last decade or so has been greater than it was for those legendary players in their primes. Again we're talking different eras so it isn't entirely fair, but that doesn't change the fact that Crosby is easily the greatest player of his generation and as such his career is rivalled only by the most extraordinary hall of famers.
Kane has been better than him for a few seasons
Jackson Unreal No
Sorry for being late to the conversation, but I had to comment on this part. "not really fair to compare him to a guy like Rocket Richard or even Jagr, but the gap between Crosby and the rest of the league over the last decade or so has been greater than it was for those legendary players in their primes". You do realize that Jagr won the scoring title 5 times, including 4 years in a row right? Crosby has won 2 scoring titles. Crosby has a slight edge on MVPs with 2 to Jagr's 1, but it's worth pointing out that Ovechkin has 3 MVPs during Crosby's era.
1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Jágr
4. Bossy
5. Crosby
6. McDavid
Outside of top 5 if we're ranking all positions. He probably ranks 9th
Pens Fan here , If he wins 5 cups . I'll put him up there with Gretzky Orr and Mario . Right now he's a solid #4 for me
I've always felt that Mario Lemieux was the most skilled player in the history of the NHL. Gretzky however was the most intelligent player by far.
Define skill. AK47 was about as skilled as it gets. Gretzky said Kent Nilsson was the most talented player he'd ever seen. McDavid might very well be the most talented player of all time. Not the most complete player, but the most talented.
Even if he retired today you could make a case for Crosby being in the top 5. The thing is Crosby is not even close to done yet. He may be past his prime in a few years but there's a chance he could play for 10-15 more years with Malkin at his side for many of them and as long as Sullivan is coach the team will have an identity and a fighting chance. I'm a Pens fan so obviously I'm hopeful, but we might see Crosby lift the cup a few more times before he's done. We really can't compare him until we know his entire body of work.
Penguins fan so I’m biased. He’s definitely top 5. Ovechkin is top 10. Pleasure to watch both all these years at the same time.
Wayner, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Crosby, Ovi, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Messier, Jagr
Nick Lidstrom!
#1. Mario
$2. Orr
#3. Gretzky
#4. Crosby
All of you armchair GM's are forgetting something very important. Gretzky played in a time where goalies were a) much smaller and b) way less athletic. If you put Crosby in that era you would see a shitload more points from him. And if you put Gretzky in THIS era, he may still lead the NHL in career points, but there would not be even NEAR the same gap between number 1 and number 2 on the points list.
If you don't want to compare numbers, then how about awards. How many Hart and Art Ross trophies do Gretzky and Crosby have? It's not even close.
@@kentmartin9289 If you want to do that then you have to compare their peers. The talent of players back then was far less to the players now. Way more candidates today than theee were then.
@@justinwalters7953 I don't think you are making the point you think you are making. Here are the second/tied for first players in the years Gretzky led the league in scoring. Dionne x2, Bossy, Stastny, Coffey, Kurri x2, Lemieux, Messier, Hull, Fedorov. If you took Gretzky out of the equation it would look like there was lots of parity/depth of quality top players. But Gretzky was so crazy dominant that when you look back it seems like there was only 1 good player and everyone else must have been garbage.
Joe Sakic doesn't get enough love. 600 goals. Had a 100 point season at age 36 which was post lockout in the dead puck era. Legend
Joe Sakic is an all time great, but not one of the top 10. Still, to be considered as an all time great is an accomplishment. Sakic was a treat. I felt that Paul Kariya if not for the concussions was very similar to a Sakic. Point per game career player was Kariya but he only played 989 games. I would also say the same for Forsberg, Lindros too....and Selanne (even though he had a full and healthy career).
LEMIEUX, GRETZKY, CROSBY, ORR, HULL, HOWE !
good one gretzky not #1
@@xTHExDONx good one orr#4
@@xTHExDONx better one mario #1
Unpopular opinion but Forsberg > Howe. He's so underrated. The guy was just so physically dominate in all areas of the ice not to mention he could dangle, score, and fight with the best of them. Peter Forsberg was just an absolute monster.
What about steve yzerman
More impressive to win cups nowadays than way back when.
It'd be cool if the NHL made a top 10 for each era, Montreal Canadiens dominant era (original six), 90's and 2000's, and current era. That'd be so amazing. Disagree with me if you will though. Btw just as a Habs fan, Richard is better than Crosby imo, but tbh you can't compare them 1940's player vs 2010's player.
I personally think that if you look at it from an all-around hockey player perspective, this including hockey sense, consistency, offensive skill/awareness, defense skill/awareness, overall hockey skills and capabilities, accomplishments, ability to rebound from injury, etc., he is undeniably the best hockey player of all time. He has the most complete package, and is the most complete all-around hockey presence that has ever been. I restate that this is an opinion of mine but I strongly believe it to be true based on my experience and knowledge of him.
I'll put Datsyuk and Bergeron right there with Crosby as "perfect" players. The former two are better defensively, and for damn sure Datsyuk could go skill for skill with Crosby.
yes
he missed those 2 prime seasons where he would of undoubtedly won more awards. so factor that in he is the goat
Crosby is the greatest player of all-time. Hockey has changed so much, and the game has gotten a lot better.
CalebCuberHD crosby is not better than gretzky. did you ever watch him play? lol
Look at how the game has changed from then to now..and Wayne never got targeted like Orr, Lemuiex, or Crosby did. I mean you could definitely make the argument that Crosby is the goat
William Aubin These arguments are all subjective and sometimes biased views just blend in - But to me you take a player like Eric Lindros who had the entire package speed, strength , height, soft hands, skill, nasty, scorer, playmaker, fighter, leader, BUT he played in a decade where hooking, holding, tackling, were tolerated and teams in the "90"'s played a defensive trap game that grinder the game to a holt at times, despite that Eric finishes his career behind Gretzky and Lemeuiex for a points per game average NOW you put Eric in today's NHL since the rule changes in"05" That Dude would Put Up North Of 100Pts A Yr. In Today's NHL and it's just a shame he does not have the hardware as others BUT is in the hall of fame - "To Me He Is In The Top 10," Just ask his peers - LINDROS WAS A BEAST.
Tom Miller LOOOOL Cups are a team effort idiot, not an individual's. Besides, Lemieux was #1 of all time not Gretzky.
William Aubin I respect your opinion BUT to say he didn't make players around better is laughable and the legion of doom line was a dominate line for 3 full seasons "94 to 97" and that in itself is remarkable because know days your lucky to keep a line together for a 10 game stretch let alone keeping a line together within a game - I just think people tend to forget what a force he was and just a dominant skilled wrecking ball Eric was - YT videos will make you say "WOW" he had the whole hockey package, you will never see another player with hockey type body build with the skill set - and I disagree with in why he's not up their the echelon it's because he didn't get the big one in terms of hardware " which is a legitimate x on his career" But Eric was a once in a lifetime generational player just like Crosby, Gretzky and Lemieux and the difference is those guys delivered Championships - I would draft a player like Lindros all day long, and it's a shame concussions tamped down his unlimited potential.
easily the best of his generation, and in an evolving game. the game is better than when he started in 2005, and he still the best player in the world. he also lost almost 2 full seasons with injury. He should probably be around the 1200 point mark if it was not for injuries. has a lot of time left if healthy to get to the top 5.
You're ranking him #5 and he still has many years left in his career.
Lemieux is the greatest ever with crosby behind him
They left out Sid's 2015 IIHF World Championship Gold Medal,
hes also part of the triple gold club, Juniors, World champs, olympic gold. I still think Sid can win more Art Ross and Hart trophies but it will be tough with Mcdavid here now and Kane...He'd have 4 each if he never got concussed that badly
Couple things to say. 1st of all, Crosby has what most people think is the BEST supporting cast in the NHL right now. Imagine if this guy played on Vancouver or the Coyotes? ( R.I.P - Coyotes/Canucks Fans ) Canucks : 1945 to 2017 | Coyotes : 1972 to 2017
crazy to think Sid is still only 29. How many more good years does he still have. Easily 5 - 7, if he stays healthy. Can he win a fourth of fifth in this day and age?
Sid is in the conversation for a Top 5 spot
1- Gretzky
2- Orr
3- Lemieux
4- Howe
5- Richard
6- Crosby
7- Harvey
8-Beliveau
9-Lafleur
10-Lidstrom
11- Messier
12-Ovechkin
13-Bourque
14-Bossy
15-Jagr
Crosby at 6 wild
Apparently defense means nothing in the nhl. I don’t mean the position, but playing 2 way. Those players get shafted every time. He doesn’t play defense, top 25 for sure all time
By the end of Sidney Crosby's career he will be number 1.
top 5 of all time
1. Gretzky
2. Mario
3. Crosby(not far behind Mario)
4. Orr
5. Howe
Nice list, i'd put Orr ahead of Sid for the time being...but another Cup would help him leapfrog i think
DoinThupidThings I'm in 100% on track with you if he gets 5 Cups he will be the talks with Mario and Gretzky
He already is number 2.....Orr was a great skater who changed the game but he didnt have Sids stick handling skills.....he also didnt win every thing in site...Crosby gets the edge in intangiables he is a leaders leader
NHL All-Star legend John Scott
William Nylander Crosby did more than Lemieux
I have sid at 4th best all time. But here’s a tougher question where does malkin rank all time?
The Mt. Rushmore of the NHL in the expansion era is Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux and Crosby.
He's definitely a top 10 player. Top 5 is a stretch.
He should be top 3. He's the 3rd player ever to win back to back conn smythe trophies. Wins back to back olympic medals. His performances and consistency aren't flukes
Peter Forsberg the most completed player
Amen.
What about Nicklas Lidstrom?
Gretzky
Crosby
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
imo, I truly believe the difference in eras is something people don't consider when making these lists. Gretzky was just way too dominant to discredit so its fair to keep him as #1.
Tom Miller LMFAO love it how you said that "its gonna be hard" as if Crosby has a chance, He's an EXTREMELY GREAT player, but if he were to even get close to what Gretzky has done he'd have to start his whole NHL career over, I mean Jagr(the second most points leader behind Gretzky) is all most 1,000 points behind him, and he's still playing after 20 something years, Gretzky retired after 20,so what does that tell you?
Crosby bottom 10 , cry baby.
MEANMONKEYStheGAMER *facepalm*
Don't forget back to back Stanley Cup MVPs!
Lemieux is the best player I've ever watched. Dominated the league with a back so bad he couldn't tie his own skates before games. Crosby doesn't have the size
Plus it depends on if you mean resume, skill or just domination
Here’s my list :
1 Gretzky
2 Orr
3 Howe
4 Lemieux
5 Crosby & M Richard
Mark Messier was in my top 5
in terms of accomplishments he's top 5. in terms of regular season performance he's top 10. playoff performance I'd say top 15. not bad at all.
Sid is number one all time easily. With all do respect, he’s reached a higher level than anyone else in or out of his era.
if they were to all face each other in their prime right now Crosby would make them all look like benders the game is soo much faster and skilled nowadays it's not comparable but judging players in thier respective eras I do agree that Crosby is #5
It's really hard to compare eras.
He ranks among them.
Crosby Top 3 period
Knowing all we do, I still would not choose Messier over Jagr.
They forgot to mention his gold medals at the world juniors and world championships.
your guys rock
of all time I'd say 6th but in this time period what he has done is more impressive then the others
Mike Modano! Nuff said.
Steve yzerman and joe sakic should be up there
Not in the top 5
is Jagr top 10? I think I'd put him in there, but I guess it's debatable.
Sorry guys your soo wrong about jagr he is top 5 in nhl history
1. He missed 2 full years in his prime where he was getting 125 plus points due to lock out
2. He went to Russia to play for 3 years and he lost to Thornton by one point for scoring title before he left soo he was still getting over 110 plus points
3. He did go to the Stanley cup finals with Boston
4. I’m Canadian and I know 100% Canada is bias especially towards Crosby’s because he’s the face of the nhl for god sake if anyone was better then him
5. For 2 fkn decades only 3 guys won the scoring title ... Lemieux Gretzky n jagr
6. Jagr won 4 scoring titles in a row lol in a rowwww nobody could touch him in the nhl
.... the list will go on if you want he was soo dominate it’s unreal, teams win championships remember that, jagr by himself was scary skilled
you forgot his world championships - one junior and one mens gold
Sid, Mario, Gretz, Howe, Orr
Been watching Hockey 47 years
Gretzky
Crosby
Orr
Messier
Lemieux
Howe is top 6 or 7 I would take ALL the 5 GUYS I mentioned before him.
Carl P u should stop watching then
Carl P lmaooo then u should stop watching hockey putting lemieux that low, lemieux is first crosby is probably second
After hearing them talking about messier , where would you guys rank Malkin I'd say 15-20 as of right now all time
He didn't even make the top 100 list, haha. (yeah, that was a serious omission. I actually would've put McDavid in there even then because it was undeniable that he was a top 100 player starting day 1)
No way is Messier 6th, I didn't see Hull (Bobby that is) Beliveau, Richard and anyone else who played before the 80s but I did see Brodeur, Bourque, Yzerman, Sakic, Roy, Hasek and Lidstrom and I think any one of those guys was at least as good as Messier. If Gretzky and Lemieux had never played the game, Yzerman would hold the NHL record for pts in a season with 155. Brodeur broke Sawchuk's 103 shutout record, one that was believed to be unbreakable for about 2 generations. Bourque has the all-time record for goals, assists and points by a defenceman, plus 5 Norris trophies. He would probably hold the records by far if Paul Coffey didn't spend the first half of his career behind Gretzky and then Lemieux. From 1997-1999, Hasek was practically unbeatable. Roy is the only player with 3 Conn Smyths but particularly in Montreal in 1993, he practically won the Cup by himself. Lidstrom, 7 Norris, 4 Cups and a Conn Smyth.
Not one time Jagr is mentioned. ;) Mt Rushmore without the 50 year old Olympian? R U KIDDING???
Jagr is as good as anyone in the top 5, the most dominant one-on-one player, shooting passing skating, speed, puck control, strength and a clutch player
@@ronf3908 exactly!!!
Where is Patrick Roy with 3 Conn Smythe and 4 cups?
If Crosby played in Gretzkys era Crosby would have been the goat. Crosby is way more defined, way better skilled, sees the game way at a higher level and rarely makes the non optimal play. It's hard to compare eras because just based on pure ability, there are probably 50 players if not more in the NHL that have more skill then Gretzky but that's because the games so much more advance, everyone plays better, everyone trains year around and there is more science behind the game. Based on stats Gretzky can't be argued that he isn't #1 even though his # are obv inflated. Crosby is #2 and Marios #3.
Adam D I don't think you realize that he would not of take a 2017 playing mentality into Gretzky's era.
He wouldn’t have trained the same, heavier stiffer stick, heavier skates
@@jeffreydean5112 Not to mention the hard open ice hits and fighting of that era who knows if Sid would've even survive it considering hes got concussion issues in this era... guys like Eric Lindros, Paul Kariya were vary talented players that should of/could've accomplished more had there careers not been cut short.
@@TysonHook-22- Crosby is way bigger than Gretzky was and he turned out fine so I feel like Crosby would've been ok.
He’s number three in my book.
I have seen most of the greats play, Orr leads this list easily. Imagine Orr, B.Hull, Gordie with this modern equipment and training, the sticks are phenomenal these days and I know from over 50 years of experience. Hull shot the puck at 120 mph and skated 30 mph in old tube skates. Don't write the old guys off unless you have seen them on the ice surface.
There's zero chance Bobby Hull, with those busted-ass old sticks shot a legit 120mph when Chara at 12'17" with a modern composite stick made of part from the ISS can't even come close to that, and nobody else on earth can either.
"Maurice the Rocket Richard" is a god !!!
Goat he is the goat
Gretz in his prime would be as good in our era