On SPD missing many important points. There are very stiff SPD shoes, often made for XC racing. I use a pair with a carbon sole for gravel riding. Just as stiff as a high level road shoe. And on contact patch if you get higher quality XT XC pedals they do have a frame around the cleat area and the shoe rest on that frame, giving a pretty good contact patch. Being able to walk is very valuable when going through rough terrain, or to do a bit of touring/visiting where you ride. Cycling is not all about speed, in fact it is not about speed for most people. It is about fun. SPD is a very good system, designed for MTB but very much relavant to gravel riding. It is also good for beginners on the road since it is much easier to use than the road systems. I feel your video does not do it justice once again.
Yup, SPD's offered significantly more options, in terms of shoes in case one is taking their bike for a walk, bikepacking, credit card touring, etc. When I see roadies walk, it seems like they have a stick rammed up their rear end, and not comfortable walking around. And, like you said, not every cyclist cares about speed (I don't, really). So who cares if SPD's are used...
I think the movement (slop) is caused by the sole of the shoe being worn. The rubber strips either side of the cleat rest on the pedal body, when these wear the cleat sits lower in the pedal.
This. I have Bont Riot+ MTB shoes, and they are super stiff. My S-Works 7 are still stiffer, but I don’t think I’d want stiffer MTB shoes. That makes a huge difference as it will distribute the pressure over a larger area. Dismissing the (in)ability to walk is also another weird one: plenty of opportunities for me to walk when I am on my road bike. It perhaps isn’t as big a factor, but I wouldn’t dismiss the advantage.
I’ve long been a convert of SPD pedals, no matter the bike as 1. I can easily walk in the shoes (when it gets too steep, in cafe, exploring), 2. Double sided click in pedals. & 3. No need to have multiple pairs of shoes for different bikes. Loving my new RX6 Shimano gravel shoes.
I have had two miles in spd shoes, not great but do able. Cant be done in speedplay or look or whatever, not practical. Not to mention how much stiffer mountian bike shoes are.
@@colostomybag9367 I totally agree. I don't use my road shoes/peddles anymore and I actually like the little bit of float in the connection as I find that releaves stress on long rides
As many have already attested too, walkability is probably the single biggest factor for why the SPD cleat and mtn shoes are so popular. I too run SPD. I have had many mechanicals through the years that necessitated walking at least a few miles to get home. I have replenished gels, food, water, etc. at a Target, WalMart, etc. many many times on long rides (several hours and high tens if not over a hundred miles). There have been times when I just decide to get off the bike for a mile and walk to change things up. Visiting restaurants etc. Heck, just hitting a rest point and using the toilet is easier on the SPD system. What SPD cleats and mtn shoes give you is the option to "insert x" where road systems would make such things far more difficult if not painful to carry out.
I switched to Shimano SPD pedals. Never looked back. Easy to engage as they are dual sided. Gives me much more confidence during stops in traffic lights and I can walk normally.
Exactly this. Also, I bought shoes with a more rigid sole, so they avoid the hotspot issue, but are still walkable in. Oh ... and as many others have said, I don't have a problem with slop either. I run SPDs on my Colnago and they're a joy.
I use SPDs. Walkability is nice as I ride to the gym to swim, and sometimes we stop at the bike and pub after a long ride, but before I get home. I do a combination of XC and road (on different bikes), and one pair of shoes/cleats does the trick. While “most” MTB shoes might be soft, I don’t care about most. There are light, stiff XC shoes available with carbon soles. I use the Giro Empire VR90, and with soles this stiff, they’re hot spot free. The only downside is the float and slop. Then again, you don’t have to worry about adjustments or which cleat float to get. So SPDs for beginners. Add high end shoes, like the VR90s for intermediate level riding. Those shoes work year round, on or off road, so the investment isn’t bad. Also the cleat mounts are reasonably far back, so they’re good for bike fitting. I’ve done a few thousand miles on mine with little wear. A great way to go!
Acknowledging Neil is in the game of gear and fit optimization, and if you're a pure roadie then I do agree with all of Neil's wise words (as is pretty much always the case). But as everyone else has said here: SPDs + a shoe with a carbon sole solves any potential hotspotting issues. I've noticed this is only a small potential problem that arises the heavier you are/if you are a particularly hard rider and/or foot shape makes you prone to hotspotting. If you're doing ultra-long distance bikepacking, some friends had opted to using an MTB system with a cage (e.g. XT Trails/Saint or Crankbrothers Mallets) and married it to a compatible shoe where the adjustable length pins contact for a bit more comfort optimisation. That additional contact/those pedals are generally more important in Enduro/DH for when you have to ride temporarily unclipped after a foot out/dab situation. Know at least 50+ riders who have been using SPDs for decades without complaint of hotspots. Regarding the slop, can't say if this is an issue/non-issue as majority of people probably have an element of poor bike fit and the SPD slop would I dare say near the bottom on list of improvements for them.
You are correct. I have a really nice pair of Mavic gravel shoes with stiff carbon soles. They are pretty awesome and no more hot spots on long climbs.
Yeah, buy cheap road shoes or cheap gravel and the identical issue will present. Buy a carbon sole quality shoe and it’s identical! Silly point to say.
I’m also an SPD mountain bike pedal fan. I use Shimano XC7 shoes and I quite like the bit of float. It’s great being able to park your bike and walk to shops and cafes or into my workplace. I’ve not experienced any foot problems. I think I remember GCN doing a test to see if there was a power advantage for road shoes and pedals and they didn’t find a significant difference.
I only use SPD. Paired with MTB shoes it’s great for walking into gas stations/bars/restaurants will riding. I even occasionally walk the dog in them after a ride.
Another benefit for SPD: cleats are much cheaper and durable then any other pedalsystem. So much cheaper when you have shoes for different seasons and purposes.
Thanks for making the video. Clarified for me, that there is no reason not to ride SPD on the road bike. With stiff soled shoes, I never had a problem with hot spots. My Shimano A600 pedals on the road bikes and XT pedal on the gravel bike don't have "slop" at all. Maybe your pedal just isn't that great. On the other hand, they have so many advantages that other comments already named. The only downside I experienced is that there is no great pedal based power meter system for them yet.
Switch to SPD coz in ride on cities and do many full stops and quick stops, you know what I mean, and it doesn’t gets destroyed really compared to road cleats
The hot spots are a real concern with SPD cleats, but they are more pronounced if your shoe isn't very stiff in the sole. When you pair SPD cleats with a very stiff shoe, something like the Spez S-Works 6 XC (whose carbon fiber outsole is pretty much still in use in 2022 - five years after they were first released), that concern goes right out the window.
The hot spot feeling occour only if you over wear the shoe sole and the tread on it, because the tread what support the shoe, not the cleat. In normal case the tread rest on the pedal axle. If the pedal cleat connector reach the shoe sole, then the tread is over weared.
There are now also single sided SPD pedals with a frame that makes direct contact with the shoe that massively spreads out the contact forces. I am currently using them and they feel great! The weight of the frame also levels them when they are properly lubricated, which makes the one sidedness a non issue.
I love SPD. I use Shimano PD EH 500 pedals. A lot of people think that they’re mountain bike pedals. However, they are actually marketed for cyclo-cross, touring and road. Easy to clip in and clip out. Double sided - you can use an ordinary shoe on the flat side. Promotes confidence on the bike - feet feel secure, particularly out of the saddle. Cleats are easy to walk in (relatively), and they are reasonably light.
If I had that much slop in my SPD pedals I'd give up on them too. I may switch over to conventional road pedals eventually. But 4 years in, I'm still good on SPDs with stiff Fizik shoes and Shimano ES-600 pedals. For now, I like to be able to walk without bother.
Yeah it was bollocks about the slop. I’ve had SPD pedals last more than 20 years with no notable play. Been riding SPDs since ‘91, will probably continue for a while yet.
It's all adjustable, there are 3 classes of SPD cleats with varying levels of rotational play, and you can turn the adjustment screw to tighten or loosen them up. You can have everything from your feet nailed to the pedals, to very loose and free rotational movement.
Those shoes he's talking about in the video are super old. Modern day mtb/spd shoes have just about as much stiffness as almost any road shoes. So the stiffness is not an issue in that regard. Just an overall bad take about SPD, and definitely a bias for speedplay pedals (as admitted in his video)
I have run SPDs since I started cycling. Carbon soles have bridged the gap between road and mountain bike cleats. There is zero flex in my sidi Eagle 8s and do not suffer from hot spots at all. This is a hangover from the olden days where shoes were flexible and the foot print of the cleat was key to even pressure over the ball of the foot during the pedal stroke. I enjoying being able to walk normally whilst everyone is skidding around like a penguin
First clipless pedals were SPD, single sided with flats. 2 decades later, ES600s, wicked light, single sided, larger platform than normal MTB pedals. Walking is a plus, not scuffing up the floor is a must.
I have Sphyre MTB shoes. Also some Giro Empore MTB shoes. Plenty light. Shoes are just as stiff as the road versions, not that that matters so much but it reduces hotspots. Very fast to clip in and out and forgiving. Different cleats to change the float. Adjustable tension. Pedals can be quite light. Dual sided, which is the biggest advantage. Every bit as good as Speeplay, which ive also used. And with recent Look SPD pedals dual sided (on my gravel bike) I've checked and there is no rock .
I'm using Shimano ES600 pedals for road cycling combined with Shimano RX8 shoes. Being able to walk is important to me, specially because where I live people seem to love building slippery floors. Combo is more than stiff enough for a low power rider like me. Yes, it has some movement, but I like it and, unless your clip position is perfect, I guess that a bit of movement is better than being glued in a imperfect position. Pedals look better on a road bike, they're very light but aren't double sided. Clipping again in steep gradients is an issue because they tend to be upside down.
I love Crank Brothers for MTB. When I started road cycling I used some egg beaters on the road bike for a long time. I also had Sworks MTB shoes with a super stiff carbon sole. Benefits of the egg beater system are even better mud clearing than SPD, 4 sided entry, no adjustments to be made other than how many degrees of rotation for release which is just a matter of which foot each cleat goes on. And they have spacers available too go on the spindles to take care of that side to side slop from worn shoes. After switching to SPD-SL for three road bike I don't notice anything difference with power or biomechanics.
i've used SPD-SL and SPD, been wanting to try speedplay, but never got around to it. ultimately i've settled on SPD for everything. have these heavier duty XT double sided pedals for the commuter bike and single speed. and on the fast roadbike, i have the A600's, which are about 280g or so? single sided SPD. so incredibly competitive in weight to SPD-SL with all the benefits of SPD. and with how we are riding more and more on gravel or light single track trails, whether we intend for it or not, even when we're out on our roadbikes, its a big plus! since unexpected hike-a-bikes will occur! and the slop that neill is referring to heavily depends on the shoe and pedal interface. the shoes i'm wearing, and the pedals i use? i've NEVER experienced sloppy engagement and retention. the important part of the fit is ensuring the choice of pedals and shoes provide a solid match of the shoe treads to the cage of the pedal. for example i've been wearing a couple different pair of mavic SPD shoes, and they match up perfectly to the cage on the A600 and M875 pedals i've been using for the last...... decade? as stable as using the old 105 SPD-SL's
A couple thought: 1) Just like people that have joint structure leading to a slight rotational movement of their foot requiring some float, I have had to fit a road cyclist with SPD pedals because their foot had had a rocking component through the stroke. So, some rocking is not always bad. 2) The rocking you show in your video is likely do more to wear of the shoe-pedal interface than the cleat interface. With a new shoe, it stabilizes the foot with pedal contact outboard of the cleat. You can also add a bit of material to the shoe or pedal to further stabilized the foot if desired.
A significant advantage to SPD that attracts many beginners: Cost. There is one source for Speedplay pedals and cleat systems, and the price is pretty stiff for someone just exploring running clipless. Many manufacturers make SPD-compatible pedals and cleats, and they're generally of pretty consistent quality. So, most beginners who are looking to get into clipless pedal systems will choose an SPD-compatible system. Another significant advantage is that there are SPD-compatible "campus" pedals (flats on one side, SPD on the other). Doing this on Speedplay means getting another add-on item.
I’m a mountain biker. I’ve used SPDs since they launched in the early ‘90s. I got my first road bike in 2016 and instantly hated the SDP-SL road pedals, but I stuck with it. I also bought another (cheap) road bike for commuting, which I put SPDs on. This was great because I can ride to the train station, lock my bike, then walk around and catch the train without walking like a duck! So for commuting they are awesome. However, this year I gave up on SPD-SLs on my proper road bike and fitted SPDs. I use some stiff MTB XC shoes with them and they work much better for me. I guess one of the key considerations as a beginner then is to use what you are comfortable with.
I actually couldn’t disagree more. Riding several years MTB Pro and at the same time roadcycling - still on SPD 20y later. It mainly depends on the flex of the shoes! Take some carbon ones (DMT, Shimano XC7-9), get preferably titanium cleats (not that much play), adjust pedals to hardest position (no play and wiggle at all). Contact space of pedal/shoe doesn’t matter at all, if connection of pedal and shoe is firm (see above). No hot spots etc. And very low price in comparison to road pedals. And btw simply one solution and even more affordable as you only need one system for road, gravel, mtb. The rest is pure commercial perspective - if you want, need and can afford - perfectly fine. But you don’t have to. But just my 5 cents 😅. Cheers 🤟🏽
From the very beginning, I used SPD pedals with my roadbike. I ride, I walk, and I feel good! Current Combo: Shimano ME3 shoes with a good stiff sole, Shimano PD-ES600 pedals. The shoes work fine but are not available anymore. The next generation looks very good though. I will upgrade soon. The one-sided pedals are just great. Most of my rides are between 60 and 120 km.
I have PD-ES600 too, and I do really enjoy them, though the paintwork has become really scratched up, and fairly quickly too. I use Chrome Industries Kursk shoes - they have Panaracer rubber, but of course fit the SPD cleat in. The shoes are very stiff, but also are on the heavy side of things. They're marketed more as urban cycling shoes, and that's because they visually resemble canvas shoes. I really like them for looking very normal while being stiff. Having reflective patches on the rear of the shoe and also having 3M reflective thread woven into the laces also makes them pretty good for riding in the winter, combined with the fact that they're water repellant.
I use Time Atacs on all my bikes - similar advantages to SPD but with more float. For some of us with knee problems the sideways float is actually a benefit.
Just echoing what others are saying. You can get stiffer soles on SPD shoes. I had entry level Shimanos and traded up for some Specialized Recon 2. Sole is stiffer the only thing that bends is the tip of the toe for walking. Which is what I got them for. While most of the time I'm not using them for that purpose but sometimes I stop off at cafes or scenic areas and will walk around a bit and have a bite to eat before I head home. Plus if there is any emergency situation in the mountains being able to hike out isn't bad either. Considering I'm not a competitive cyclist it seems to work okay for me at the moment at least. But I see the advantages of road shoes ad well.
I love MTB SPD’s -I like the float, I like the double sided design and as everyone as stated I can walk easily to coffee shops, breweries, etc. I also ride a MTB….strangely I still use flats when I MTB.
I've seen so many roadies have their cleats clip out as the cleat wears out. I've never had this issue with SPD cleats and I ride both road and MTB, very dusty and occasionally muddy. As for power transfer, I can sprint with the best of them with SPD cleats. As for how much play they have, you can tighten the release which tightens the play in the pedal too. I have clipped out once during a sprint but I had the pedals very loose at the time. I keep them tighter on the roadbike now and loose on the MTB.
Kind of funny seeing roadies talk about SPDs, they clearly don't know how they work! The clip holds the shoe down to the pedal and the treads on the side of the cleat make contact with the pedal, so your contact patch isn't the SPD cleat, it's the entire pedal enabled by the shoe. Also, mine don't have any wobble in them at all, I suspect that's a worn out/shitty shoe issue. I have used SPDs for road riding for years, none of the issues mentioned are valid, sorry!
I've been using SPD for allmost all of my adult cycling life. That has been like 15 years or something. Used them mostly for small tours around 50-70km or the one or two racing bike touring holidays (seen half of Europe with my dad that way) during summers. 3500km to 5000km per year. Just love the convenience. Right now I'm using more gravel race oriented shoes and my pedals are the BBB BDP-14. Also SPD is used in my Spinning classes which adds to the convenience.
Cam, I really enjoy your channel and appreciate all the effort you put into it. I would have loved to see you take a deeper dive on this topic. For example ES600 pedal with stiff carbon soled XC/gravel shoe. You might be surprised. Because the walkability factor is real. I like high performance equipment on the bike, but don't think we "need" to compromise walkability to achieve that level of performance. You might be surprised to see the trend shift as gravel specific stiff SPD shoes start to catch on. Especially for many of us who love riding fast and being out for long days exploring, but aren't racing. Why walk around is discomfort off of the bike?
I use road pedals (Favero Assiomas) for most of my road riding. However, for audax and bike touring, where I’m on and off the bike more frequently, I use Shimano SPDs with a pair of Fizik Terra X4 gravel shoes. I rode from Edinburgh to Bournemouth over 4 days in summer, averaging over 100 miles/day, and had no comfort issues at all.
Same here - use Look for road, SPD for gravel, touring...did LEJOG this past summer riding ~120 miles per days over 8 days and no comfort issues with the cleat system
Never used SPD. Only used SPD-SL, pedal on loose setting. Never had an issue. Feel safe and great transfer of power. I guy once said to me on a road outing that he didn’t like my cleats as he can walk easier in his SPDs. But I’m out to cycle not walk!! The weight distribution for me is perfect on SLs
I've been using SPD for all of my bikes for years and I do acknowledge the downsides mentioned. They are, however, cheaper than anything else out there and easy to find parts. They are also easier when commuting. Yes, I'm a cyclist first but I still have to walk to get into my building at work. Also, they make it easier to put a foot down at a light or to get around the bike if you have a mechanical issue, even one that can be solved in the field. The ability to walk in them is my biggest "pro" for that system. Thanks for the video.
I have two bikes an endurance and a gravel bike and cover just over 1000km per month on average.Both have SPD.I live in the centre of London and just found them easier with the constant stopping at traffic lights etc and the fact I can walk in them.When i first started I used to get hotspots and switched to Lake MX332 shoe with a ultra stiff carbon soles and have not looked back.
Same here, UK roads are like gravel rides! I ride my going to the gym, commuting, weekend road and TT bikes all on SPD without issue using an SPD road shoe. Happy days
I ride shimano ultegra SPD pedals (es600) paired with stiff carbon shimano rx8 shoes and I absolutely love it. I ride scott addict RC 10 and I don't think I loose any speed. Only downside is that there are not many nice looking white SPD shoes on the market... and that is the only reason I sometimes think about switching to SPD-SL to get a white road shoe.
You can always tighten up the float. But a bit of it is always good as any cyclists going through traffic would appreciate. I’m a fan of SPD pedals as they are most compatible with real world cycling when not racing. The only downside for me would be the weight. Nothing else.
I use a 3-bolt dedicated road shoe, and the SH-41 cleat adapter. (Allows a 2-bolt to be run on a higher-end 3 bolt shoe. It has what Shimano calls a pontoon that surround the cleat, which I believe helps to steady that rocking motion, particularly on the Look pedals that are SPD compatible. And if you need any more proof, I used to see Chloe Dygart out with the fast group when she was still a junior...wearing mtb shoes.
IMO SPD is far better platform for beginners. Reasons why: High number of choices for both pedals and shoes (as opposed to Speedplay) Speedplay pedals cause knee pain SPDs are easy to use, pedals tend to be dual sided. You can walk in SPD shoes without any add-ons or issues which is huge plus for anyone whose cycling isn't limited just to training rides. SPD set up can be had for significantly cheaper price than Speedplay.
There are few things that I enjoy more than watching a herd of roadies roaming the wilds of a convenience store in their SPD-SLs and Speedplays. Clacking along and occasionally going for a slide like Bambi learning to walk on a frozen pond. When someone is foolish enough to pay me to ride a bike (they won't, I'm past my prime and wasn't fast in my prime) I'll worry about the few watts a road pedal will provide. Until then, you can find me riding and walking everywhere without incident and putting down suboptimal watts on my SPDs.
SPDs are the best. I have SIDI Dominator and Genius of same vintage, basically same construction shoes, one is SPD and other is SPD-SL. Rode them on same ride same bike. Prefer the SPD because I actually like for my foot tilted slightly, which is the slop that is mentioned. I have XTR pedals which has a bit of an outer platform and very low stack height. I got hot spots with SPD-SL actually. But the main advantage is you can standardize your shoes between road, gravel and MTB. I have a SIDI ventilated summer shoe, a SIDI closed fabric winter shoe, and commuting shoe that work on all my bikes.
I agree about the hotspots, but this is a (flexi) shoe rather than pedal issue. I use flats for enduro & bike packing and SPD for everything else. Sweet spot for SPD’s in my opinion are Shimano 540 pedals.
There are SPD pedals (like Shimano SPD PD ED500) that have 'platforms' around the cleat to increase the contact area. In some cases the contact area even exceeds the contact area of other pedal systems. Benefits of the SPD system, apart from having double sided options, are that you can actually walk in the shoes and when you put you foot down in wet weather on road iron work, it's less likely to slip than speedplay or SPD-SL/Look. Cleats wear less and shoes last longer. You can get shoes that are more waterproof and/or warmer without the faff of overshoes. Slight weight disadvantage (just eat one less donut for breakfast!), but look around and you can get pedals that offer lighter weights than alternatives. I can't work out why anyone would use SPD-SL for commuting or touring. Give me SPD any day (and I've even raced in triathlons and IM races with SPD - my transitions are faster and I can get up to race speed more quickly whilst others run bare foot and struggle to get feet in shoes, or knock shoes off pedals, or have issues with bike flipping when shoes hit the ground in transition).
I have gravel shoes with carbon soles, which are just as stiff as road bike shoes (according to the manufacturer's stiffness index). And there is also the possibility to increase the tension on the spring within the pedals. Therefore, you will get rid of the movement of the shoes (if you prefer that). However, I would guess that a bit of movement might be beneficial for beginners since they don't feel like glued in one position. I remember getting numb feet in the beginning when I transitioned to Shimano road cleats. And the last point is about improving the feel of safety. Shimano offers different cleats, which just disengage by rotating the heel or even by slightly tilting the foot. So, unclipping in an emergency situation is a lot easier. And since you're able to walk with the SPD system, you will immediately stand on solid feet instead of skating on ice. I saw a beginner friend crashing on a steep hill, which he didn't manage to ride up. He had to unclip and then just slid away cos he had no traction in his Speedplay shoes.
I do 100km+ rides with SPD pedals. My main reasoning for getting them is I wanted pedals that I could use normal shoes with as well as clip-in shoes (I use Shimano EH500 pedals). I think the trick for using SPD for endurance riding is to get shoes with maximum stiffness. I use Shimano RX800 shoes and they feel great.
Spd with platform for road is 👌 I ride mostly mtb and cyclocross, only made sense to go spd for the road bike too. Spd platform pedals are very good for road. Spd cleats are often also more adjustable to the rear of the foot, another plus. Spd platform have a larger contactpatch, because it is both the cleat and the platform touching. And for criteriums, you can clip in fast and do a cx style start and get a gap right away 😁
Got the xc903's (stiffness 11 whatever that mea s) with spd's on my road bike and it is incredible and so convenient to have rubber under performance bike shoes (I am 100% road too)
S-Works top tier mountain bike shoes have carbon fiber soles and are every bit as stiff as the best road shoes. Used SPD on all my bikes since I started riding seriously 30+ years ago. I have never had any foot problems, discomfort, or inability to unclip from the pedals. Also there are different SPD cleats that allow for multi-direction release from the pedals for quick bailout if necessary. There are also several SPD pedals out there that have larger contact area then the standard Shimano 520's that a lot of riders use. Also, most every SPD pedal is adjustable as far as the step in or release pressure required to "clip-in" or out of the pedal. Research is key to find the best shoe, cleat, and pedal combination for each individual rider. Even though you say that you would rather be riding than walking, when you do get off the bike, which you will unless you can ride it into the coffee shop or straight into your house, it is so much easier to walk in the mountain bike shoes when you stop for a break, pit stop, etc. Link to the S-Works shoes: www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-recon-mountain-bike-shoes/p/157446?color=234825-157446
I have a pair of Shimano road bike shoes that accept SPD cleats - they’re quite stiff just like any other road bike shoe. Also, there are different cleats that are offered, some that have much less float than others. As someone who rides road, gravel, and Mtb, these are the best choice for me. I also ride dual sided platform pedals, so one side is your standard platform pedal like you would see on a mountain bike and the other side accepts SPD cleats. It’s a really nice option when you want to unclip because you’re going through some gnarly roots and rock gardens or have unclipped at a stoplight and need to jump back on the pedals quickly to get going.
SPD mtb pedals and cleats are great for endurance rides. Easy to walk in whether to the counter at the cafe, up the hill if it proves too tough, or comfort breaks etc. In 5 years of using them I haven’t experienced any of the problems described, and don’t know anyone else using them in our club who has.
SPD pedals are great. I think most people, including myself, use road specific pedals because they think they’re better. After trying them both I have to say there’s hardly a difference in how they feel and when you have to get off the bike the SPD shoes are way better.
You're missing a big pro for spd system. The cleats are made of metal. They wear down a lot slower. You're not going to produce nearly as much plastic waste.
Two additional advantages for beginners: there are screws where you can set how tight the grip on the cleats are AND there is a version of the cleats where you can leave the pedal to the back. I am also using spd on mtb, trekking and gravel and look on TT and road. If you have a good pedal stroke and good shoes .. there is no disadvantage of spd.
yeah i wager anyone complaining they rip out of a spd cleat needs to spend some time working on the pedal stroke... maybe even ride omg... flat pedals for a bit.
Everyone is different but SPD suit me better than Road cleats. I have only fallen off at lights twice, both times using road cleats. Also a bit of float means that I avoid knee pain. As other riders have said don't go cheap on the shoes if you want a firm sole.
I run SPD on my Touring Bike and Mountain Bike, and old Look Carbon Pros on my Cervelo Soloist. I like the SPD ability to step of the Bike and not skidder my feet trying to get a stable landing.
Neal is a fitting god and spot on. I have a client that has exactly this roll/instability issue. He is using Sidi shoes so you know they are well made and solid. Still, rolling and instability. I will be calling him in the morning to watch this video to back up what I have been telling him.
When you factor in using them as a pseudo-road pedal then shoe choice is different. MTB CX shoes can be very similar to road shoes in stiffness as well as look & feel with a carbon base. The lateral movement is also much reduced with the spd pedals with the surrounding cages, and with road-like shoes. For touring and commuting these are probably still top of the list.
If you really don't care about weight and someone else may use your bike, Look has a set of Geo-Tracker pedals that are flats on one side and SPD compatible En-Rage Look MTB pedal on the other side. Also, they have blinky light bars on them. It means I can ride with my MTB shoes on the dirt trails in the park and my wife can ride it around with her sandals on the road going to the pool. Also, this is for a gravel bike that goes 10 - 15 km at a time in the summer. If using it for any distance on the road for just myself, I'd switch. to a road wheelset and take the time to swap in a set of Keos, but I've found that the Look combination of SPD and flats makes a great solution for a shared family bike at times.
Have these same pedals and they are so convenient that I am almost considering to change all my bikes into it. It's very heavy but for a non competitive rider it makes perfect sense.
I started with SPD and entry-level shoes. Then I moved to a full carbon sole with SPD and adapters (don't @ me). I eventually moved to 3 bolt Look Keo with the same shoes and honestly... there's a difference but it is nearly imperceptible.
Started with SPDs because my road bike was also my commuting bike and for commuting you'd end up walking a bit here or there. Also had a pair of eggbeaters for the same reason. They worked perfectly for that purpose; however, once I went for longer rides, I noticed that the bottom of my shoes felt like pushing into my feet creating a hot spot that became sore for good day after a hard ride. I bought a pair of super expensive CX shoes with all the bells and whistles regarding stiffness and the issue remained. At that point, I switched to SPD-SL system and the issue has been non-existent ever since. So for me, any ride passed 2.5 hours is just not comfortable on SPDs.
Purchased a pair the combination SPD/flat pedals to go on one of my road bikes just to try them out for riding and then doing a little hiking on a local greenway. You have the ability to use the flat side of the pedal or you can clip in to the other side. The good thing is if you do clip in you still have the rest of the flat of the pedal for extra contact area. This is all I use now because of the convenience and versatility of this system.
Hi from Dublin. As a city commuter who frequently has to walk when a puncture happens and walking the last mile is preferable to a side of the road repair I will stick with the mtb type shoe for that very reason.
I stopped racing in 1992. I switched to SPD pedals at that time because I wanted a walkable shoes and the same pedals on my road and mountain bike and eventually my BMX race bike. I changed from Shimano to HT which has a more solid engagement. No slop or rocking. I use their enduro pedals which are very stable. The only bike I have now is a gravel bike. There are carbon sole mountain bike shoes available from Shimano and Sidi which art very light and stiff and I’m sure there are other brands as well. Finally there is no large scale studies out there that show road shoes and pedals are any faster or more efficient than mountain bike shoes and pedals. I personally noticed no difference when I switched over. For the non racing or beginning cyclists, mountain bike shoes and pedals make a lot of sense. I do recommend the HT pedals over Shimano.
I was lucky to have a friend with the same size feet as me. And he let me try several systems. SPD just worked better for me and I've stayed with it since (about 3k miles/ year) wearing the very durable Giro Rumble VR shoes. I've had several serious ankle and knee injuries earlier in life, and the extra play definitely helps me. I've never had issues with hot spots once, although I'm usually only doing rides of 35-40 miles. My longest ride to date is 68 miles and I had no issues. Added bonus is that I have Shimano pedals that are flat on one side. Which helped greatly when I forgot my bike shoes for a 40 mile gravel ride over an hour from home and I had to wear my sneakers instead.
I agree with Neil, there's to much float in SPD cleats. Twenty years ago when I first started riding spd's we're no problem. I stopped cycling and was just a runner. When I returned to cycling of course I bought SPD pedals. After aa few rides my knees felt funny. I made the switch and haven't looked back.
I started using SPDs because I got into riding through commuting and the recessed cleat makes life a lot easier when doing that (especially when catching a train). I've managed to find firm soled shoes fairly easily. Hot spots have tended to indicate the shoe is worn and needs replacing in my case.
I've got the SPD on one side, flat on the other. Originally chose them so I could ride to work, walk up the stairs once I get there, and take it to lunch without having to change shoes first. Turns out the large flat eliminates the small contact patch and the rocking issues you describe. Now I'm looking for road-specific shoes, and plan to keep with the SPDs. I'm curious to see how much I notice the stiffer soles.
Also if the shoes are stiff carbon soles I don't think the size of a cleat/contact patch matters at all. I've noticed a big difference when I switched from specialized recon 2 which are medium stiff to a very stiff carbon soled shimano RX8. They are ass stiff and light as a road shoe, and I use them also on my road racing bike.
@@kubackjeee excellent choice, I've put in 45,000 kms on this set up with one sided spd pedals, mine don't rock laterally...I do use Solestar footbeds ( amazing support) and you push with your whole foot.. 190 kms in the mountains with zero foot pain. Road shoes and cleats are unnecessary for 90% of people. Here in Spain about 30% of ROAD riders use spd because? Cafe stops!
Love my SPD ES600's. Lightweight and I have shoes that allow me to get off the bike and walk around comfortably, my spare bikes use SPD's that have cleat engagement on one side and a flat on the other because I loan them out to friends who are less serious riders and my wife often rides them and she is not comfortable being locked in.
I have old Speedplay Frogs on several of my bikes and old Speedplay Xs on two of my old road bikes. I love the Frogs because they are so easy in and out, and the shoes with cleats are much easier to walk in. One pair of mountain bike shoes with frog cleats I have have very stiff carbon soles. I don’t think I give up anything with the Frogs, but then I don’t race on the road. They have been fine for gravel racing.
I once did an interesting test. I installed an SPD and SPD-SL pedal on the same bike. For the left foot I had an XTR mtb pedal and XC7 shoe. For the right foot I had an Ultegra road pedal and RC7 shoe. So both pedals and shoes were quite high level, stiff carbon soles and so on. When riding that combo, I didn’t notice much difference when pedaling. Of course when trying to rock your foot side to side there was a small difference, SPD being a little more loose, but I didn’t feel it when pedaling. In fact the float in the Ultegra pedal was somehow not natural for me, there was too much resistance in the float even with yellow cleats and release spring tension set at the lowest setting. As there are big differences between SPD shoes, there are also big differences between pedals as well. For example the mentioned XTR M9100 pedal is much more stable than the most basic M520 pedal, even when those two pedals appear very similar.
The resistance to rotation or float in the yellow SPD-SL cleat is due to curvature of the sole of the shoe. Shimano, being Shimano, assumes that all shoes conform to their standards. If not there is a higher pressure point. The worst case is the small shoe with too much curve because the cleat is hard to snap in and allows almost no movement. I work with clients who have had knee surgery, using the bike instead of a passive motion machine for rehab. Not having rotation and float isn’t an option and the release tension has nothing to do with this.
For me, it is a SPD combo XT PD-T8000 hybrid pedals and Northwave Scorpius 2 shoes on my do-it-all gravel bike. I did everything from commuting, bike-packing, 100k+ rides to my first road race. After four years (10000+ km) the shoes show significant wear but I have never noticed this rocking movement. Perhaps because of the hybrid/platform nature of the pedals they provide support on the sides. The only thing that changed a bit on the pedal/cleat connection is that getting in and out became easier over the years. I suppose equally split between training and wear.
I started with clippers pedals back in the early 1990s, with Look Pedals and cleats. In the early 2010s, I had switched ALL of my bikes over to SPD pedals and am not going back. Yes, I prefer to be able to walk in my bike shoes. I live in an area that is pretty rural with sparse coverage for mobile phones in many places. A mechanical can force you to walk quite a way. Also, as an older cyclist, I am not racing anyone but my buddies, but we are often going for some post-ride rehydration. I like being able to walk to get those beers. Second, SPD pedals are fairly inexpensive, last a darn long time, and they are really bulletproof. I have seen other pedals and cleats fail much more often. I have one pair of SPD pedals on which I have probably 10,000 miles, no issues. The only issues I have ever had are when I did not check the screws on the bottom of my shoes. One got loose, came out, and then I had a problem. It is hard to unclip when the cleat moves around. So check the screws fairly often. Only one style of cleat is needed, so you may need just one pair of shoes. Or, if you have multiple shoes, one can get wet and you still have a dry pair. I know of someone with different shoes and cleats, and sometimes the shoes for their favorite bike are wet, due to rain, sweat, etc. I will take the SPDs all day.
I’ve used the Spuds for nearly 30 years. Hot spots can occasionally be an issue with certain shoes. Clipping in and out is a cinch,slam the foot down and you’re in. Definitely a boon for safety when commuting in traffic.
Old timer here. I need to baby my feet, so I'd definitely have foot pain (from any walking) if I switched from SPD pedals. I agree you need to make sure you get stiff shoes. No issues here. I'd don't think I'll switch.
I found a sale ($300 shoe for $130) on MTB shoes and they are lighter and stiff. Perhaps regular cleats would be better but I doubt I'll ever find out now.
I've used SPD for 20 years and tens of thousands of miles. I use double sided on most bikes but a single-sided wide platform set on my Road bike. The wide platform version is the equivalent of a road pedal but with shoes I can walk in. The Shimano 520 & 540 pedals are indestructible. Seriously I've done thousands of miles in them, used and abused. still going strong (and about £20).
Should have used SPD Shimano pedals if you wanna talk about rocking. It may make a big difference. Same for the cleats. Once I bought makeshift cleats from BBB which looked and measured the same but were extremely uneasy to click in & out which led to nasty injury when I fell. Also one sided pedals are completely alright as they always end-up in the same position so you quickly learn to click in easily with one simple foot motion + they usually weight one third less than similar double sided models. PD-A520 were great if you can still get your hands on these. Otherwise you gonna have to use more expensive but even lighter PD-ES600.
If I'm not wrong, I started the SPD comment war on your last video. 😁🤪😂😂 Jokes apart, it's really nice that you guys took time to actually cover the SPD pedals. I've ridden more than 6,000 kms till date and love them. They have be great for all kinds of terrain and good for upto 120-160 km ride @ 20 kmph avg speed. However, in my recent 200 km ride, when I pushed to maintain 30 kmph avg speed, mostly rolling terrain, I ended up reviving my old LCL pain. I feel, the point at 5:35 is very relevant when going for long rides and I'm sure it's that oscillation along the longitudnal axis which creats issues for higher effort endurance rides. However, for people like me, who ride in all kinds of roads/terrains and do long endurance rides, the freedom to walk around really matters. So, might be a SPD pedal with wide platform would help, with a little weight penalty. Pedals like Shimano ME700, M8120, M9120 or the those of the Explorer series bike.shimano.com/en-US/apparel-accessories/pedal/pedal-explorer.html might be worth a look, as well. Would be great to hear the opinion of people not into racing but love ultra-cycling, BRMs/Audax. What works the best for such riders? Personal experiences.th-cam.com/users/sgaming/emoji/7ff574f2/emoji_u1f602.png
4:42 On SPD pedals the cleat is not part of the contact patch, power is actually transferred through the thick rubber blocks along the sides of the cleat. Some models, especially those intended for enduro or trail riding have a huge contact patch. The slop you are showing on the video is caused by the extremely worn out sole on those shoes.
@@PRH123 Every single SPD compatible shoe I've owned has said rubber blocks running along the sides of the cleat. These blocks are the actual contact surfaces between the shoe and the pedal. Shimano even sells item # SM-SH41 for those wishing to use SPD cleats on standard 3 hole road shoes, which do not have said rubber blocks as part of the sole.
@@poxcr Are you referring to the sole of the shoe itself? I have 4 pairs of SPD's, 3 of them from Shimano, and none of them have any rubber blocks. It is the metal SPD cleat that attaches the shoe to the pedal.
@@PRH123 The contact points between the shoe and the pedal are painfully evident just by looking at the sole of any SPD compatible shoe: static.biketiresdirect.com/productimages/imageslarge/SHXXK2-3.jpg
I run SPD on my road bike and I am one of those riders that doesn’t have any of the downside issues mentioned. Given those were described as “may be a problem” or similar, and the upside are very real (double side and much less faffing about trying to get clipped in, and you can actually walk in them), I see SPD more as being the first choice. If you have some of the problems mentioned, then don’t use them. I can’t compare SPD to Speedplay, having not used those, but I find Look Keo type to be almost useless they are so hard to get clipped into. Obviously, many riders use Look Keo style, and I don’t doubt that at elite levels they have some performance advantage, else pros would be using SPD’s. But I like shoes that I can clip in and out of easily and shoes that I can actually walk in. Related, I use Favero Assioma power pedals with the SPD hack. SPDs have been all upside for me.
Was a big SPD fan and underwhelmed when I first tried SPD-SL. But after trying SPD-SL again now I ride at higher cadence and power I'm converted. Getting the right fitting shoe and correct saddle height is key whichever system you use.
Although the contact point is smaller, the paltform that surrounds the mechanism isn't so I can't see mechaically that this is a thing as it's the platform that supports the shoe/foot. I use XTR's and they're the best SPD I have used, don't creak and they're stable. Love Neils work though especially his bikefit stuff.
I started with SPD simply because I wanted hybrid pedals on my first bike. I often wanted to go by bike to somewhere where I then would run or hike and I didn't want to carry the shoes with me, but just ride in them in the first place. So having one flat side was essential for me. Now I do have bikes that have clipless only pedals, but I still use those bikes for commuting etc., and having shoes that you can walk in is still important to me. I have like a 5min walk from where I have to leave my bike at work to our locker rooms and I much rather walk that in MTB shoes than road shoes with huge cleats. I did consider having a road cleat and shoes for my road bike only, and just not commute on it, but didn't really want to spend money on another pair of shoes either, especially since I already have pretty expensive carbon soled MTB shoes.
I've been using single side SPD style road pedals for 29 years. I have a couple pairs of shoes and my favourite pair is a fairly flexy, well broken in pair from the 90's. I have a few pairs of MTB double side pairs that I use on my road bikes sometimes, great for city rides, easier to get in and out. I also have a pair of Look style pedals with nice stiff shoes. Those feel slightly better, slightly, probably mostly a mental thing, when I'm using my road or MTB pedals I never regret putting them on. SO, ya, SPDs are fine.
On SPD missing many important points. There are very stiff SPD shoes, often made for XC racing. I use a pair with a carbon sole for gravel riding. Just as stiff as a high level road shoe. And on contact patch if you get higher quality XT XC pedals they do have a frame around the cleat area and the shoe rest on that frame, giving a pretty good contact patch. Being able to walk is very valuable when going through rough terrain, or to do a bit of touring/visiting where you ride. Cycling is not all about speed, in fact it is not about speed for most people. It is about fun. SPD is a very good system, designed for MTB but very much relavant to gravel riding. It is also good for beginners on the road since it is much easier to use than the road systems. I feel your video does not do it justice once again.
Totally agree. You some it up nicely.
Yup, SPD's offered significantly more options, in terms of shoes in case one is taking their bike for a walk, bikepacking, credit card touring, etc. When I see roadies walk, it seems like they have a stick rammed up their rear end, and not comfortable walking around. And, like you said, not every cyclist cares about speed (I don't, really). So who cares if SPD's are used...
I think the movement (slop) is caused by the sole of the shoe being worn. The rubber strips either side of the cleat rest on the pedal body, when these wear the cleat sits lower in the pedal.
@@Garfie1d73 agreed.
This. I have Bont Riot+ MTB shoes, and they are super stiff. My S-Works 7 are still stiffer, but I don’t think I’d want stiffer MTB shoes. That makes a huge difference as it will distribute the pressure over a larger area. Dismissing the (in)ability to walk is also another weird one: plenty of opportunities for me to walk when I am on my road bike. It perhaps isn’t as big a factor, but I wouldn’t dismiss the advantage.
I’ve long been a convert of SPD pedals, no matter the bike as 1. I can easily walk in the shoes (when it gets too steep, in cafe, exploring), 2. Double sided click in pedals. & 3. No need to have multiple pairs of shoes for different bikes.
Loving my new RX6 Shimano gravel shoes.
I have had two miles in spd shoes, not great but do able. Cant be done in speedplay or look or whatever, not practical. Not to mention how much stiffer mountian bike shoes are.
I have the RX8s, they are indeed a great shoe. Not amazing to get into, but fit like a glove once your foot is in.
where did you get your RX6s? i've been looking for a pair for months but it's never available
@@Carftymk sigma sports
@@colostomybag9367 I totally agree. I don't use my road shoes/peddles anymore and I actually like the little bit of float in the connection as I find that releaves stress on long rides
As many have already attested too, walkability is probably the single biggest factor for why the SPD cleat and mtn shoes are so popular. I too run SPD. I have had many mechanicals through the years that necessitated walking at least a few miles to get home. I have replenished gels, food, water, etc. at a Target, WalMart, etc. many many times on long rides (several hours and high tens if not over a hundred miles). There have been times when I just decide to get off the bike for a mile and walk to change things up. Visiting restaurants etc. Heck, just hitting a rest point and using the toilet is easier on the SPD system. What SPD cleats and mtn shoes give you is the option to "insert x" where road systems would make such things far more difficult if not painful to carry out.
I switched to Shimano SPD pedals. Never looked back. Easy to engage as they are dual sided. Gives me much more confidence during stops in traffic lights and I can walk normally.
Exactly this. Also, I bought shoes with a more rigid sole, so they avoid the hotspot issue, but are still walkable in. Oh ... and as many others have said, I don't have a problem with slop either. I run SPDs on my Colnago and they're a joy.
I use SPDs. Walkability is nice as I ride to the gym to swim, and sometimes we stop at the bike and pub after a long ride, but before I get home. I do a combination of XC and road (on different bikes), and one pair of shoes/cleats does the trick.
While “most” MTB shoes might be soft, I don’t care about most. There are light, stiff XC shoes available with carbon soles. I use the Giro Empire VR90, and with soles this stiff, they’re hot spot free.
The only downside is the float and slop. Then again, you don’t have to worry about adjustments or which cleat float to get.
So SPDs for beginners. Add high end shoes, like the VR90s for intermediate level riding. Those shoes work year round, on or off road, so the investment isn’t bad. Also the cleat mounts are reasonably far back, so they’re good for bike fitting. I’ve done a few thousand miles on mine with little wear. A great way to go!
Interesting to hear Jon, thanks for sharing on the thread.
Acknowledging Neil is in the game of gear and fit optimization, and if you're a pure roadie then I do agree with all of Neil's wise words (as is pretty much always the case).
But as everyone else has said here: SPDs + a shoe with a carbon sole solves any potential hotspotting issues. I've noticed this is only a small potential problem that arises the heavier you are/if you are a particularly hard rider and/or foot shape makes you prone to hotspotting.
If you're doing ultra-long distance bikepacking, some friends had opted to using an MTB system with a cage (e.g. XT Trails/Saint or Crankbrothers Mallets) and married it to a compatible shoe where the adjustable length pins contact for a bit more comfort optimisation. That additional contact/those pedals are generally more important in Enduro/DH for when you have to ride temporarily unclipped after a foot out/dab situation.
Know at least 50+ riders who have been using SPDs for decades without complaint of hotspots. Regarding the slop, can't say if this is an issue/non-issue as majority of people probably have an element of poor bike fit and the SPD slop would I dare say near the bottom on list of improvements for them.
If you get good mtb/cx shoes, the sole will be just as solid, so no hot foot. Stop being cheap, Neal
Interesting point, thanks for sharing on the thread, and I'll pass on your message. Cam
You are correct. I have a really nice pair of Mavic gravel shoes with stiff carbon soles. They are pretty awesome and no more hot spots on long climbs.
Yeah, buy cheap road shoes or cheap gravel and the identical issue will present. Buy a carbon sole quality shoe and it’s identical! Silly point to say.
Agreed. Stiff carbon soles like on road shoes are nothing new.
@@CamNicholls shimano r8 as stiff and light as a road shoe. I use it with ultegra es600 pedals - which are light road SPD pedals.
I’m also an SPD mountain bike pedal fan. I use Shimano XC7 shoes and I quite like the bit of float. It’s great being able to park your bike and walk to shops and cafes or into my workplace. I’ve not experienced any foot problems. I think I remember GCN doing a test to see if there was a power advantage for road shoes and pedals and they didn’t find a significant difference.
I only use SPD. Paired with MTB shoes it’s great for walking into gas stations/bars/restaurants will riding. I even occasionally walk the dog in them after a ride.
Another benefit for SPD: cleats are much cheaper and durable then any other pedalsystem. So much cheaper when you have shoes for different seasons and purposes.
Thanks for making the video. Clarified for me, that there is no reason not to ride SPD on the road bike. With stiff soled shoes, I never had a problem with hot spots. My Shimano A600 pedals on the road bikes and XT pedal on the gravel bike don't have "slop" at all. Maybe your pedal just isn't that great. On the other hand, they have so many advantages that other comments already named. The only downside I experienced is that there is no great pedal based power meter system for them yet.
SRM X Power seems pretty good, but expensive. 5% standby power drain is liveable.
Now use Favero Assioma Pro MX-2 and they are amazing
Switch to SPD coz in ride on cities and do many full stops and quick stops, you know what I mean, and it doesn’t gets destroyed really compared to road cleats
The hot spots are a real concern with SPD cleats, but they are more pronounced if your shoe isn't very stiff in the sole. When you pair SPD cleats with a very stiff shoe, something like the Spez S-Works 6 XC (whose carbon fiber outsole is pretty much still in use in 2022 - five years after they were first released), that concern goes right out the window.
The hot spot feeling occour only if you over wear the shoe sole and the tread on it, because the tread what support the shoe, not the cleat. In normal case the tread rest on the pedal axle. If the pedal cleat connector reach the shoe sole, then the tread is over weared.
The newest Shimano SPD pedals have an extra-large contact area to the shoe, almost like SPD SL.
There are now also single sided SPD pedals with a frame that makes direct contact with the shoe that massively spreads out the contact forces. I am currently using them and they feel great! The weight of the frame also levels them when they are properly lubricated, which makes the one sidedness a non issue.
@@DilbertMucare you referring to the xt race?
@@thedownunderverse Yes. I think they are called PD-M8010 or PD-M8020. Need to check at my MTB in the cellar.
I love SPD. I use Shimano PD EH 500 pedals. A lot of people think that they’re mountain bike pedals. However, they are actually marketed for cyclo-cross, touring and road. Easy to clip in and clip out. Double sided - you can use an ordinary shoe on the flat side. Promotes confidence on the bike - feet feel secure, particularly out of the saddle. Cleats are easy to walk in (relatively), and they are reasonably light.
If I had that much slop in my SPD pedals I'd give up on them too. I may switch over to conventional road pedals eventually. But 4 years in, I'm still good on SPDs with stiff Fizik shoes and Shimano ES-600 pedals. For now, I like to be able to walk without bother.
Fair call and interesting to hear about that combo. Thanks for sharing on the thread.
Don't switch. It's not any better!
Yeah it was bollocks about the slop. I’ve had SPD pedals last more than 20 years with no notable play. Been riding SPDs since ‘91, will probably continue for a while yet.
I switched from cheap double sided spd pedals to ES-600, the difference was huge all the slop was gone and feels much more stable.
It's all adjustable, there are 3 classes of SPD cleats with varying levels of rotational play, and you can turn the adjustment screw to tighten or loosen them up. You can have everything from your feet nailed to the pedals, to very loose and free rotational movement.
Those shoes he's talking about in the video are super old. Modern day mtb/spd shoes have just about as much stiffness as almost any road shoes. So the stiffness is not an issue in that regard. Just an overall bad take about SPD, and definitely a bias for speedplay pedals (as admitted in his video)
I ride all the bikes; so I use SPD. I also like my foot to move naturally and run SH-56 cleats specifically to let it have a bit of play..
This is what I use at as well
Same. SPD for me. I definitely preferred the more movement/float which eliminated some pain I was getting from the other type
I have run SPDs since I started cycling.
Carbon soles have bridged the gap between road and mountain bike cleats.
There is zero flex in my sidi Eagle 8s and do not suffer from hot spots at all.
This is a hangover from the olden days where shoes were flexible and the foot print of the cleat was key to even pressure over the ball of the foot during the pedal stroke.
I enjoying being able to walk normally whilst everyone is skidding around like a penguin
SPDs are also brilliant for commuting- and on *any* kind of bike. One way or another, you will have to walk your bike somewhere.
First clipless pedals were SPD, single sided with flats. 2 decades later, ES600s, wicked light, single sided, larger platform than normal MTB pedals. Walking is a plus, not scuffing up the floor is a must.
I have Sphyre MTB shoes. Also some Giro Empore MTB shoes. Plenty light. Shoes are just as stiff as the road versions, not that that matters so much but it reduces hotspots. Very fast to clip in and out and forgiving. Different cleats to change the float. Adjustable tension. Pedals can be quite light. Dual sided, which is the biggest advantage. Every bit as good as Speeplay, which ive also used. And with recent Look SPD pedals dual sided (on my gravel bike) I've checked and there is no rock .
I'm using Shimano ES600 pedals for road cycling combined with Shimano RX8 shoes.
Being able to walk is important to me, specially because where I live people seem to love building slippery floors.
Combo is more than stiff enough for a low power rider like me. Yes, it has some movement, but I like it and, unless your clip position is perfect, I guess that a bit of movement is better than being glued in a imperfect position.
Pedals look better on a road bike, they're very light but aren't double sided. Clipping again in steep gradients is an issue because they tend to be upside down.
Use the exact sam combo. My only wish is they make a white rx8 shoe :)
I used tennis racket lead tape to correct the pedal weight distribution so it stays upright when unclipped
@@vhx1 that's interesting.
The predecessor to the ES600, the A600, doesn’t have the upside down issue.
@@bobby2800 I heard that too, but I already had bought the ES600. Maybe in the third iteration Shimano can fix what they broke.
I love Crank Brothers for MTB. When I started road cycling I used some egg beaters on the road bike for a long time. I also had Sworks MTB shoes with a super stiff carbon sole. Benefits of the egg beater system are even better mud clearing than SPD, 4 sided entry, no adjustments to be made other than how many degrees of rotation for release which is just a matter of which foot each cleat goes on. And they have spacers available too go on the spindles to take care of that side to side slop from worn shoes. After switching to SPD-SL for three road bike I don't notice anything difference with power or biomechanics.
i've used SPD-SL and SPD, been wanting to try speedplay, but never got around to it.
ultimately i've settled on SPD for everything. have these heavier duty XT double sided pedals for the commuter bike and single speed. and on the fast roadbike, i have the A600's, which are about 280g or so? single sided SPD. so incredibly competitive in weight to SPD-SL with all the benefits of SPD.
and with how we are riding more and more on gravel or light single track trails, whether we intend for it or not, even when we're out on our roadbikes, its a big plus! since unexpected hike-a-bikes will occur!
and the slop that neill is referring to heavily depends on the shoe and pedal interface. the shoes i'm wearing, and the pedals i use? i've NEVER experienced sloppy engagement and retention.
the important part of the fit is ensuring the choice of pedals and shoes provide a solid match of the shoe treads to the cage of the pedal. for example i've been wearing a couple different pair of mavic SPD shoes, and they match up perfectly to the cage on the A600 and M875 pedals i've been using for the last...... decade? as stable as using the old 105 SPD-SL's
A couple thought: 1) Just like people that have joint structure leading to a slight rotational movement of their foot requiring some float, I have had to fit a road cyclist with SPD pedals because their foot had had a rocking component through the stroke. So, some rocking is not always bad. 2) The rocking you show in your video is likely do more to wear of the shoe-pedal interface than the cleat interface. With a new shoe, it stabilizes the foot with pedal contact outboard of the cleat. You can also add a bit of material to the shoe or pedal to further stabilized the foot if desired.
A significant advantage to SPD that attracts many beginners: Cost. There is one source for Speedplay pedals and cleat systems, and the price is pretty stiff for someone just exploring running clipless. Many manufacturers make SPD-compatible pedals and cleats, and they're generally of pretty consistent quality. So, most beginners who are looking to get into clipless pedal systems will choose an SPD-compatible system.
Another significant advantage is that there are SPD-compatible "campus" pedals (flats on one side, SPD on the other). Doing this on Speedplay means getting another add-on item.
I use SPD for road riding, my MTB shoes have carbon sole. Zero hotspot issues.
I’m a mountain biker. I’ve used SPDs since they launched in the early ‘90s. I got my first road bike in 2016 and instantly hated the SDP-SL road pedals, but I stuck with it. I also bought another (cheap) road bike for commuting, which I put SPDs on. This was great because I can ride to the train station, lock my bike, then walk around and catch the train without walking like a duck! So for commuting they are awesome. However, this year I gave up on SPD-SLs on my proper road bike and fitted SPDs. I use some stiff MTB XC shoes with them and they work much better for me. I guess one of the key considerations as a beginner then is to use what you are comfortable with.
I actually couldn’t disagree more. Riding several years MTB Pro and at the same time roadcycling - still on SPD 20y later. It mainly depends on the flex of the shoes! Take some carbon ones (DMT, Shimano XC7-9), get preferably titanium cleats (not that much play), adjust pedals to hardest position (no play and wiggle at all). Contact space of pedal/shoe doesn’t matter at all, if connection of pedal and shoe is firm (see above). No hot spots etc. And very low price in comparison to road pedals. And btw simply one solution and even more affordable as you only need one system for road, gravel, mtb. The rest is pure commercial perspective - if you want, need and can afford - perfectly fine. But you don’t have to. But just my 5 cents 😅. Cheers 🤟🏽
As a commuter, SPDs are awesome! The all-around versatility supersedes the negatives (I do wish they weren’t so heavy).
From the very beginning, I used SPD pedals with my roadbike. I ride, I walk, and I feel good! Current Combo: Shimano ME3 shoes with a good stiff sole, Shimano PD-ES600 pedals. The shoes work fine but are not available anymore. The next generation looks very good though. I will upgrade soon. The one-sided pedals are just great. Most of my rides are between 60 and 120 km.
I have PD-ES600 too, and I do really enjoy them, though the paintwork has become really scratched up, and fairly quickly too. I use Chrome Industries Kursk shoes - they have Panaracer rubber, but of course fit the SPD cleat in. The shoes are very stiff, but also are on the heavy side of things. They're marketed more as urban cycling shoes, and that's because they visually resemble canvas shoes. I really like them for looking very normal while being stiff. Having reflective patches on the rear of the shoe and also having 3M reflective thread woven into the laces also makes them pretty good for riding in the winter, combined with the fact that they're water repellant.
@@vaska00762 These shoes look interesting. The reflective patches are useful for sure. And yes, I also don't like the fast scratch-up of the pedals.
I use Time Atacs on all my bikes - similar advantages to SPD but with more float. For some of us with knee problems the sideways float is actually a benefit.
I too run ATACs on all my bikes, been doing it for over 10 yrs.
i know its been a year since this comment, but can you check if the time attacs have the same rocking play as spd? shown in this video at 5:58?
I use the SPD system on my mountain & road bikes. When you're in the city and you have to walk,well no problem. One system to rule them all!
Just echoing what others are saying. You can get stiffer soles on SPD shoes. I had entry level Shimanos and traded up for some Specialized Recon 2. Sole is stiffer the only thing that bends is the tip of the toe for walking. Which is what I got them for. While most of the time I'm not using them for that purpose but sometimes I stop off at cafes or scenic areas and will walk around a bit and have a bite to eat before I head home. Plus if there is any emergency situation in the mountains being able to hike out isn't bad either. Considering I'm not a competitive cyclist it seems to work okay for me at the moment at least. But I see the advantages of road shoes ad well.
I love MTB SPD’s -I like the float, I like the double sided design and as everyone as stated I can walk easily to coffee shops, breweries, etc. I also ride a MTB….strangely I still use flats when I MTB.
I've seen so many roadies have their cleats clip out as the cleat wears out. I've never had this issue with SPD cleats and I ride both road and MTB, very dusty and occasionally muddy. As for power transfer, I can sprint with the best of them with SPD cleats. As for how much play they have, you can tighten the release which tightens the play in the pedal too. I have clipped out once during a sprint but I had the pedals very loose at the time. I keep them tighter on the roadbike now and loose on the MTB.
Kind of funny seeing roadies talk about SPDs, they clearly don't know how they work! The clip holds the shoe down to the pedal and the treads on the side of the cleat make contact with the pedal, so your contact patch isn't the SPD cleat, it's the entire pedal enabled by the shoe.
Also, mine don't have any wobble in them at all, I suspect that's a worn out/shitty shoe issue.
I have used SPDs for road riding for years, none of the issues mentioned are valid, sorry!
I've been using SPD for allmost all of my adult cycling life. That has been like 15 years or something. Used them mostly for small tours around 50-70km or the one or two racing bike touring holidays (seen half of Europe with my dad that way) during summers. 3500km to 5000km per year. Just love the convenience. Right now I'm using more gravel race oriented shoes and my pedals are the BBB BDP-14.
Also SPD is used in my Spinning classes which adds to the convenience.
Cam, I really enjoy your channel and appreciate all the effort you put into it. I would have loved to see you take a deeper dive on this topic. For example ES600 pedal with stiff carbon soled XC/gravel shoe. You might be surprised. Because the walkability factor is real. I like high performance equipment on the bike, but don't think we "need" to compromise walkability to achieve that level of performance. You might be surprised to see the trend shift as gravel specific stiff SPD shoes start to catch on. Especially for many of us who love riding fast and being out for long days exploring, but aren't racing. Why walk around is discomfort off of the bike?
Only use mtb shoes now on all my bikes. Dont notice any cons to be honest . Being able to walk is a great plus.
I use road pedals (Favero Assiomas) for most of my road riding. However, for audax and bike touring, where I’m on and off the bike more frequently, I use Shimano SPDs with a pair of Fizik Terra X4 gravel shoes. I rode from Edinburgh to Bournemouth over 4 days in summer, averaging over 100 miles/day, and had no comfort issues at all.
Same here - use Look for road, SPD for gravel, touring...did LEJOG this past summer riding ~120 miles per days over 8 days and no comfort issues with the cleat system
Never used SPD.
Only used SPD-SL, pedal on loose setting. Never had an issue. Feel safe and great transfer of power. I guy once said to me on a road outing that he didn’t like my cleats as he can walk easier in his SPDs. But I’m out to cycle not walk!! The weight distribution for me is perfect on SLs
I've been using SPD for all of my bikes for years and I do acknowledge the downsides mentioned. They are, however, cheaper than anything else out there and easy to find parts. They are also easier when commuting. Yes, I'm a cyclist first but I still have to walk to get into my building at work. Also, they make it easier to put a foot down at a light or to get around the bike if you have a mechanical issue, even one that can be solved in the field. The ability to walk in them is my biggest "pro" for that system. Thanks for the video.
@CamNicholls Is this really you or is it a scam? Looks like a scam as there are many more in this thread with the same message.
I have two bikes an endurance and a gravel bike and cover just over 1000km per month on average.Both have SPD.I live in the centre of London and just found them easier with the constant stopping at traffic lights etc and the fact I can walk in them.When i first started I used to get hotspots and switched to Lake MX332 shoe with a ultra stiff carbon soles and have not looked back.
Same here, UK roads are like gravel rides! I ride my going to the gym, commuting, weekend road and TT bikes all on SPD without issue using an SPD road shoe. Happy days
I ride shimano ultegra SPD pedals (es600) paired with stiff carbon shimano rx8 shoes and I absolutely love it. I ride scott addict RC 10 and I don't think I loose any speed. Only downside is that there are not many nice looking white SPD shoes on the market... and that is the only reason I sometimes think about switching to SPD-SL to get a white road shoe.
This is basically me!
I just ordered this setup myself. Will be riding it in early February.
You can always tighten up the float. But a bit of it is always good as any cyclists going through traffic would appreciate. I’m a fan of SPD pedals as they are most compatible with real world cycling when not racing. The only downside for me would be the weight. Nothing else.
I use a 3-bolt dedicated road shoe, and the SH-41 cleat adapter. (Allows a 2-bolt to be run on a higher-end 3 bolt shoe. It has what Shimano calls a pontoon that surround the cleat, which I believe helps to steady that rocking motion, particularly on the Look pedals that are SPD compatible. And if you need any more proof, I used to see Chloe Dygart out with the fast group when she was still a junior...wearing mtb shoes.
IMO SPD is far better platform for beginners. Reasons why:
High number of choices for both pedals and shoes (as opposed to Speedplay)
Speedplay pedals cause knee pain
SPDs are easy to use, pedals tend to be dual sided.
You can walk in SPD shoes without any add-ons or issues which is huge plus for anyone whose cycling isn't limited just to training rides.
SPD set up can be had for significantly cheaper price than Speedplay.
There are few things that I enjoy more than watching a herd of roadies roaming the wilds of a convenience store in their SPD-SLs and Speedplays. Clacking along and occasionally going for a slide like Bambi learning to walk on a frozen pond. When someone is foolish enough to pay me to ride a bike (they won't, I'm past my prime and wasn't fast in my prime) I'll worry about the few watts a road pedal will provide. Until then, you can find me riding and walking everywhere without incident and putting down suboptimal watts on my SPDs.
SPDs are the best. I have SIDI Dominator and Genius of same vintage, basically same construction shoes, one is SPD and other is SPD-SL. Rode them on same ride same bike. Prefer the SPD because I actually like for my foot tilted slightly, which is the slop that is mentioned. I have XTR pedals which has a bit of an outer platform and very low stack height. I got hot spots with SPD-SL actually. But the main advantage is you can standardize your shoes between road, gravel and MTB. I have a SIDI ventilated summer shoe, a SIDI closed fabric winter shoe, and commuting shoe that work on all my bikes.
You can get larger spd pedals that have reasonable sized surrounding base plate to ones that downhillers would use.
I agree about the hotspots, but this is a (flexi) shoe rather than pedal issue.
I use flats for enduro & bike packing and SPD for everything else.
Sweet spot for SPD’s in my opinion are Shimano 540 pedals.
There are SPD pedals (like Shimano SPD PD ED500) that have 'platforms' around the cleat to increase the contact area. In some cases the contact area even exceeds the contact area of other pedal systems. Benefits of the SPD system, apart from having double sided options, are that you can actually walk in the shoes and when you put you foot down in wet weather on road iron work, it's less likely to slip than speedplay or SPD-SL/Look. Cleats wear less and shoes last longer. You can get shoes that are more waterproof and/or warmer without the faff of overshoes. Slight weight disadvantage (just eat one less donut for breakfast!), but look around and you can get pedals that offer lighter weights than alternatives. I can't work out why anyone would use SPD-SL for commuting or touring. Give me SPD any day (and I've even raced in triathlons and IM races with SPD - my transitions are faster and I can get up to race speed more quickly whilst others run bare foot and struggle to get feet in shoes, or knock shoes off pedals, or have issues with bike flipping when shoes hit the ground in transition).
I’ve ridden with Shimano SPD pedals on all my road bikes since they first came out. Love them as shoes are more comfortable and safer off the bike
I have gravel shoes with carbon soles, which are just as stiff as road bike shoes (according to the manufacturer's stiffness index).
And there is also the possibility to increase the tension on the spring within the pedals. Therefore, you will get rid of the movement of the shoes (if you prefer that). However, I would guess that a bit of movement might be beneficial for beginners since they don't feel like glued in one position. I remember getting numb feet in the beginning when I transitioned to Shimano road cleats.
And the last point is about improving the feel of safety. Shimano offers different cleats, which just disengage by rotating the heel or even by slightly tilting the foot. So, unclipping in an emergency situation is a lot easier. And since you're able to walk with the SPD system, you will immediately stand on solid feet instead of skating on ice. I saw a beginner friend crashing on a steep hill, which he didn't manage to ride up. He had to unclip and then just slid away cos he had no traction in his Speedplay shoes.
I do 100km+ rides with SPD pedals. My main reasoning for getting them is I wanted pedals that I could use normal shoes with as well as clip-in shoes (I use Shimano EH500 pedals). I think the trick for using SPD for endurance riding is to get shoes with maximum stiffness. I use Shimano RX800 shoes and they feel great.
Spd with platform for road is 👌
I ride mostly mtb and cyclocross, only made sense to go spd for the road bike too. Spd platform pedals are very good for road. Spd cleats are often also more adjustable to the rear of the foot, another plus. Spd platform have a larger contactpatch, because it is both the cleat and the platform touching.
And for criteriums, you can clip in fast and do a cx style start and get a gap right away 😁
Got the xc903's (stiffness 11 whatever that mea s) with spd's on my road bike and it is incredible and so convenient to have rubber under performance bike shoes (I am 100% road too)
S-Works top tier mountain bike shoes have carbon fiber soles and are every bit as stiff as the best road shoes. Used SPD on all my bikes since I started riding seriously 30+ years ago. I have never had any foot problems, discomfort, or inability to unclip from the pedals. Also there are different SPD cleats that allow for multi-direction release from the pedals for quick bailout if necessary. There are also several SPD pedals out there that have larger contact area then the standard Shimano 520's that a lot of riders use. Also, most every SPD pedal is adjustable as far as the step in or release pressure required to "clip-in" or out of the pedal. Research is key to find the best shoe, cleat, and pedal combination for each individual rider. Even though you say that you would rather be riding than walking, when you do get off the bike, which you will unless you can ride it into the coffee shop or straight into your house, it is so much easier to walk in the mountain bike shoes when you stop for a break, pit stop, etc.
Link to the S-Works shoes: www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-recon-mountain-bike-shoes/p/157446?color=234825-157446
Interesting thanks for sharing on the thread
I have a pair of Shimano road bike shoes that accept SPD cleats - they’re quite stiff just like any other road bike shoe. Also, there are different cleats that are offered, some that have much less float than others. As someone who rides road, gravel, and Mtb, these are the best choice for me. I also ride dual sided platform pedals, so one side is your standard platform pedal like you would see on a mountain bike and the other side accepts SPD cleats. It’s a really nice option when you want to unclip because you’re going through some gnarly roots and rock gardens or have unclipped at a stoplight and need to jump back on the pedals quickly to get going.
A really good breakdown of pros and cons. Personally use SPD with Shimano RX-8 due to mix of discipline
The Shimano RX-8 is a great MTN bike shoe for roadies. I love it being able to walk around, but also have good stiff shoe.
SPD mtb pedals and cleats are great for endurance rides. Easy to walk in whether to the counter at the cafe, up the hill if it proves too tough, or comfort breaks etc. In 5 years of using them I haven’t experienced any of the problems described, and don’t know anyone else using them in our club who has.
SPD pedals are great. I think most people, including myself, use road specific pedals because they think they’re better. After trying them both I have to say there’s hardly a difference in how they feel and when you have to get off the bike the SPD shoes are way better.
You're missing a big pro for spd system. The cleats are made of metal. They wear down a lot slower. You're not going to produce nearly as much plastic waste.
Two additional advantages for beginners: there are screws where you can set how tight the grip on the cleats are AND there is a version of the cleats where you can leave the pedal to the back.
I am also using spd on mtb, trekking and gravel and look on TT and road. If you have a good pedal stroke and good shoes .. there is no disadvantage of spd.
yeah i wager anyone complaining they rip out of a spd cleat needs to spend some time working on the pedal stroke... maybe even ride omg... flat pedals for a bit.
Everyone is different but SPD suit me better than Road cleats. I have only fallen off at lights twice, both times using road cleats. Also a bit of float means that I avoid knee pain. As other riders have said don't go cheap on the shoes if you want a firm sole.
I run SPD on my Touring Bike and Mountain Bike, and old Look Carbon Pros on my Cervelo Soloist. I like the SPD ability to step of the Bike and not skidder my feet trying to get a stable landing.
Neal is a fitting god and spot on. I have a client that has exactly this roll/instability issue. He is using Sidi shoes so you know they are well made and solid. Still, rolling and instability. I will be calling him in the morning to watch this video to back up what I have been telling him.
When you factor in using them as a pseudo-road pedal then shoe choice is different. MTB CX shoes can be very similar to road shoes in stiffness as well as look & feel with a carbon base. The lateral movement is also much reduced with the spd pedals with the surrounding cages, and with road-like shoes. For touring and commuting these are probably still top of the list.
If you really don't care about weight and someone else may use your bike, Look has a set of Geo-Tracker pedals that are flats on one side and SPD compatible En-Rage Look MTB pedal on the other side. Also, they have blinky light bars on them. It means I can ride with my MTB shoes on the dirt trails in the park and my wife can ride it around with her sandals on the road going to the pool. Also, this is for a gravel bike that goes 10 - 15 km at a time in the summer. If using it for any distance on the road for just myself, I'd switch. to a road wheelset and take the time to swap in a set of Keos, but I've found that the Look combination of SPD and flats makes a great solution for a shared family bike at times.
Have these same pedals and they are so convenient that I am almost considering to change all my bikes into it. It's very heavy but for a non competitive rider it makes perfect sense.
I started with SPD and entry-level shoes. Then I moved to a full carbon sole with SPD and adapters (don't @ me). I eventually moved to 3 bolt Look Keo with the same shoes and honestly... there's a difference but it is nearly imperceptible.
I've just changed over to Look X Trail pedals. Do you know can I adapt my 3 bolt Road shoes to suit the look 2 bolt cleat system.
@@pathorgan3219 I was using the Shimano SM-SH41also with the Look X Track Pedals.
Started with SPDs because my road bike was also my commuting bike and for commuting you'd end up walking a bit here or there. Also had a pair of eggbeaters for the same reason.
They worked perfectly for that purpose; however, once I went for longer rides, I noticed that the bottom of my shoes felt like pushing into my feet creating a hot spot that became sore for good day after a hard ride. I bought a pair of super expensive CX shoes with all the bells and whistles regarding stiffness and the issue remained.
At that point, I switched to SPD-SL system and the issue has been non-existent ever since.
So for me, any ride passed 2.5 hours is just not comfortable on SPDs.
Purchased a pair the combination SPD/flat pedals to go on one of my road bikes just to try them out for riding and then doing a little hiking on a local greenway. You have the ability to use the flat side of the pedal or you can clip in to the other side. The good thing is if you do clip in you still have the rest of the flat of the pedal for extra contact area. This is all I use now because of the convenience and versatility of this system.
Hi from Dublin. As a city commuter who frequently has to walk when a puncture happens and walking the last mile is preferable to a side of the road repair I will stick with the mtb type shoe for that very reason.
I stopped racing in 1992. I switched to SPD pedals at that time because I wanted a walkable shoes and the same pedals on my road and mountain bike and eventually my BMX race bike. I changed from Shimano to HT which has a more solid engagement. No slop or rocking. I use their enduro pedals which are very stable. The only bike I have now is a gravel bike. There are carbon sole mountain bike shoes available from Shimano and Sidi which art very light and stiff and I’m sure there are other brands as well. Finally there is no large scale studies out there that show road shoes and pedals are any faster or more efficient than mountain bike shoes and pedals. I personally noticed no difference when I switched over. For the non racing or beginning cyclists, mountain bike shoes and pedals make a lot of sense. I do recommend the HT pedals over Shimano.
I was lucky to have a friend with the same size feet as me. And he let me try several systems. SPD just worked better for me and I've stayed with it since (about 3k miles/ year) wearing the very durable Giro Rumble VR shoes. I've had several serious ankle and knee injuries earlier in life, and the extra play definitely helps me. I've never had issues with hot spots once, although I'm usually only doing rides of 35-40 miles. My longest ride to date is 68 miles and I had no issues. Added bonus is that I have Shimano pedals that are flat on one side. Which helped greatly when I forgot my bike shoes for a 40 mile gravel ride over an hour from home and I had to wear my sneakers instead.
I agree with Neil, there's to much float in SPD cleats. Twenty years ago when I first started riding spd's we're no problem. I stopped cycling and was just a runner. When I returned to cycling of course I bought SPD pedals. After aa few rides my knees felt funny. I made the switch and haven't looked back.
TLDW: Buy some quality, stiff carbon soled gravel shoes and the only negative to spd's is basically eliminated.
I started using SPDs because I got into riding through commuting and the recessed cleat makes life a lot easier when doing that (especially when catching a train). I've managed to find firm soled shoes fairly easily. Hot spots have tended to indicate the shoe is worn and needs replacing in my case.
I've got the SPD on one side, flat on the other. Originally chose them so I could ride to work, walk up the stairs once I get there, and take it to lunch without having to change shoes first.
Turns out the large flat eliminates the small contact patch and the rocking issues you describe.
Now I'm looking for road-specific shoes, and plan to keep with the SPDs. I'm curious to see how much I notice the stiffer soles.
You'll hate the road shoes! I switched cause...I thought the road set-up would be better. Nope! Waste of money$$ 😭
Also if the shoes are stiff carbon soles I don't think the size of a cleat/contact patch matters at all. I've noticed a big difference when I switched from specialized recon 2 which are medium stiff to a very stiff carbon soled shimano RX8. They are ass stiff and light as a road shoe, and I use them also on my road racing bike.
@@kubackjeee excellent choice, I've put in 45,000 kms on this set up with one sided spd pedals, mine don't rock laterally...I do use Solestar footbeds ( amazing support) and you push with your whole foot..
190 kms in the mountains with zero foot pain. Road shoes and cleats are unnecessary for 90% of people.
Here in Spain about 30% of ROAD riders use spd because? Cafe stops!
@@buildingreno My current ones are lace up. I want something I can adjust on the fly, and I've seen that mostly on road shoes.
@@kubackjeee agreed, the "contact patch" is irrelevant when using stiff soles.
Love my SPD ES600's. Lightweight and I have shoes that allow me to get off the bike and walk around comfortably, my spare bikes use SPD's that have cleat engagement on one side and a flat on the other because I loan them out to friends who are less serious riders and my wife often rides them and she is not comfortable being locked in.
I have old Speedplay Frogs on several of my bikes and old Speedplay Xs on two of my old road bikes. I love the Frogs because they are so easy in and out, and the shoes with cleats are much easier to walk in. One pair of mountain bike shoes with frog cleats I have have very stiff carbon soles. I don’t think I give up anything with the Frogs, but then I don’t race on the road. They have been fine for gravel racing.
I once did an interesting test. I installed an SPD and SPD-SL pedal on the same bike. For the left foot I had an XTR mtb pedal and XC7 shoe. For the right foot I had an Ultegra road pedal and RC7 shoe. So both pedals and shoes were quite high level, stiff carbon soles and so on.
When riding that combo, I didn’t notice much difference when pedaling. Of course when trying to rock your foot side to side there was a small difference, SPD being a little more loose, but I didn’t feel it when pedaling. In fact the float in the Ultegra pedal was somehow not natural for me, there was too much resistance in the float even with yellow cleats and release spring tension set at the lowest setting.
As there are big differences between SPD shoes, there are also big differences between pedals as well. For example the mentioned XTR M9100 pedal is much more stable than the most basic M520 pedal, even when those two pedals appear very similar.
The resistance to rotation or float in the yellow SPD-SL cleat is due to curvature of the sole of the shoe. Shimano, being Shimano, assumes that all shoes conform to their standards. If not there is a higher pressure point. The worst case is the small shoe with too much curve because the cleat is hard to snap in and allows almost no movement. I work with clients who have had knee surgery, using the bike instead of a passive motion machine for rehab. Not having rotation and float isn’t an option and the release tension has nothing to do with this.
For me, it is a SPD combo XT PD-T8000 hybrid pedals and Northwave Scorpius 2 shoes on my do-it-all gravel bike. I did everything from commuting, bike-packing, 100k+ rides to my first road race. After four years (10000+ km) the shoes show significant wear but I have never noticed this rocking movement. Perhaps because of the hybrid/platform nature of the pedals they provide support on the sides. The only thing that changed a bit on the pedal/cleat connection is that getting in and out became easier over the years. I suppose equally split between training and wear.
SPD pedals and shoes are great for triathlons. Come out of the water, put your shoes on, run out of the transition zone, clip on and go.
I started with clippers pedals back in the early 1990s, with Look Pedals and cleats. In the early 2010s, I had switched ALL of my bikes over to SPD pedals and am not going back.
Yes, I prefer to be able to walk in my bike shoes. I live in an area that is pretty rural with sparse coverage for mobile phones in many places. A mechanical can force you to walk quite a way. Also, as an older cyclist, I am not racing anyone but my buddies, but we are often going for some post-ride rehydration. I like being able to walk to get those beers.
Second, SPD pedals are fairly inexpensive, last a darn long time, and they are really bulletproof. I have seen other pedals and cleats fail much more often. I have one pair of SPD pedals on which I have probably 10,000 miles, no issues. The only issues I have ever had are when I did not check the screws on the bottom of my shoes. One got loose, came out, and then I had a problem. It is hard to unclip when the cleat moves around. So check the screws fairly often.
Only one style of cleat is needed, so you may need just one pair of shoes. Or, if you have multiple shoes, one can get wet and you still have a dry pair. I know of someone with different shoes and cleats, and sometimes the shoes for their favorite bike are wet, due to rain, sweat, etc.
I will take the SPDs all day.
I’ve used the Spuds for nearly 30 years. Hot spots can occasionally be an issue with certain shoes. Clipping in and out is a cinch,slam the foot down and you’re in. Definitely a boon for safety when commuting in traffic.
Old timer here. I need to baby my feet, so I'd definitely have foot pain (from any walking) if I switched from SPD pedals. I agree you need to make sure you get stiff shoes. No issues here. I'd don't think I'll switch.
I found a sale ($300 shoe for $130) on MTB shoes and they are lighter and stiff. Perhaps regular cleats would be better but I doubt I'll ever find out now.
I've used SPD for 20 years and tens of thousands of miles. I use double sided on most bikes but a single-sided wide platform set on my Road bike. The wide platform version is the equivalent of a road pedal but with shoes I can walk in. The Shimano 520 & 540 pedals are indestructible. Seriously I've done thousands of miles in them, used and abused. still going strong (and about £20).
Should have used SPD Shimano pedals if you wanna talk about rocking. It may make a big difference. Same for the cleats. Once I bought makeshift cleats from BBB which looked and measured the same but were extremely uneasy to click in & out which led to nasty injury when I fell. Also one sided pedals are completely alright as they always end-up in the same position so you quickly learn to click in easily with one simple foot motion + they usually weight one third less than similar double sided models. PD-A520 were great if you can still get your hands on these. Otherwise you gonna have to use more expensive but even lighter PD-ES600.
If I'm not wrong, I started the SPD comment war on your last video. 😁🤪😂😂
Jokes apart, it's really nice that you guys took time to actually cover the SPD pedals. I've ridden more than 6,000 kms till date and love them. They have be great for all kinds of terrain and good for upto 120-160 km ride @ 20 kmph avg speed. However, in my recent 200 km ride, when I pushed to maintain 30 kmph avg speed, mostly rolling terrain, I ended up reviving my old LCL pain. I feel, the point at 5:35 is very relevant when going for long rides and I'm sure it's that oscillation along the longitudnal axis which creats issues for higher effort endurance rides.
However, for people like me, who ride in all kinds of roads/terrains and do long endurance rides, the freedom to walk around really matters. So, might be a SPD pedal with wide platform would help, with a little weight penalty. Pedals like Shimano ME700, M8120, M9120 or the those of the Explorer series bike.shimano.com/en-US/apparel-accessories/pedal/pedal-explorer.html might be worth a look, as well.
Would be great to hear the opinion of people not into racing but love ultra-cycling, BRMs/Audax. What works the best for such riders? Personal experiences.th-cam.com/users/sgaming/emoji/7ff574f2/emoji_u1f602.png
4:42 On SPD pedals the cleat is not part of the contact patch, power is actually transferred through the thick rubber blocks along the sides of the cleat. Some models, especially those intended for enduro or trail riding have a huge contact patch. The slop you are showing on the video is caused by the extremely worn out sole on those shoes.
There are no thick rubber blocks along the side of an SPD cleat.
@@PRH123 Every single SPD compatible shoe I've owned has said rubber blocks running along the sides of the cleat. These blocks are the actual contact surfaces between the shoe and the pedal. Shimano even sells item # SM-SH41 for those wishing to use SPD cleats on standard 3 hole road shoes, which do not have said rubber blocks as part of the sole.
@@poxcr Are you referring to the sole of the shoe itself? I have 4 pairs of SPD's, 3 of them from Shimano, and none of them have any rubber blocks. It is the metal SPD cleat that attaches the shoe to the pedal.
@@PRH123 The contact points between the shoe and the pedal are painfully evident just by looking at the sole of any SPD compatible shoe: static.biketiresdirect.com/productimages/imageslarge/SHXXK2-3.jpg
I use spds on my road bike I find them much easier to clip in and out of and as others have said they’re easier to walk in
No videos about the Time expresso or the Magpeds
I run SPD on my road bike and I am one of those riders that doesn’t have any of the downside issues mentioned. Given those were described as “may be a problem” or similar, and the upside are very real (double side and much less faffing about trying to get clipped in, and you can actually walk in them), I see SPD more as being the first choice. If you have some of the problems mentioned, then don’t use them.
I can’t compare SPD to Speedplay, having not used those, but I find Look Keo type to be almost useless they are so hard to get clipped into. Obviously, many riders use Look Keo style, and I don’t doubt that at elite levels they have some performance advantage, else pros would be using SPD’s. But I like shoes that I can clip in and out of easily and shoes that I can actually walk in.
Related, I use Favero Assioma power pedals with the SPD hack. SPDs have been all upside for me.
5:52 - it rocks because of the wear and tear of the shoe (not of the pedal system) or shoe design - my opinion.
Was a big SPD fan and underwhelmed when I first tried SPD-SL. But after trying SPD-SL again now I ride at higher cadence and power I'm converted. Getting the right fitting shoe and correct saddle height is key whichever system you use.
Although the contact point is smaller, the paltform that surrounds the mechanism isn't so I can't see mechaically that this is a thing as it's the platform that supports the shoe/foot. I use XTR's and they're the best SPD I have used, don't creak and they're stable. Love Neils work though especially his bikefit stuff.
I started with SPD simply because I wanted hybrid pedals on my first bike. I often wanted to go by bike to somewhere where I then would run or hike and I didn't want to carry the shoes with me, but just ride in them in the first place. So having one flat side was essential for me. Now I do have bikes that have clipless only pedals, but I still use those bikes for commuting etc., and having shoes that you can walk in is still important to me. I have like a 5min walk from where I have to leave my bike at work to our locker rooms and I much rather walk that in MTB shoes than road shoes with huge cleats. I did consider having a road cleat and shoes for my road bike only, and just not commute on it, but didn't really want to spend money on another pair of shoes either, especially since I already have pretty expensive carbon soled MTB shoes.
I've been using single side SPD style road pedals for 29 years. I have a couple pairs of shoes and my favourite pair is a fairly flexy, well broken in pair from the 90's. I have a few pairs of MTB double side pairs that I use on my road bikes sometimes, great for city rides, easier to get in and out. I also have a pair of Look style pedals with nice stiff shoes. Those feel slightly better, slightly, probably mostly a mental thing, when I'm using my road or MTB pedals I never regret putting them on. SO, ya, SPDs are fine.