The Empire That Is A Game | Culture
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- Today we discuss "The Player of Games" one of the most thought provoking books in Iain Bank's Culture series. In this book we encounter a society whose entire social order is based upon a complex game.
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Love the book, it also show how far the Culture goes to intervene in others civilization. Even on their own people.
I will always find that one line in the book, where Jernau asks if he was created for this purpose and is *not informed* of the answer... perfect.
They're very not-Federation. They don't have a Prime Directive. They love to interfere.
I was good, probably one of the best sci-fi novels I have read in a long time
@@lostbutfreesoul I believe he is given an answer. Flere Imsaho says,
"You're wondering if we somehow set you up..." and goes on to say that if the Culture did stuff like that, it wouldn't need outside mercenaries to do "the really dirty work".
"The good of the many versus the good of the one."
'The Player of Games' was the first Culture novel I read, courtesy of a colleague who was part of the book swap club I was in. What I enjoyed, and enjoy, about the Culture series is that whilst each is part of the series, the series universe is so vast that each book can stand by itself- you don't have to read any of the others unless you want to.
'The Player of Games' takes the idea of the game through many different levels. Even the identity of the narrator is turned into a guessing game. For Gurgeh, the lack of thrills in gaming and life in general in the Culture, leads him down a dark path whose dangers are far more than he bargained for. To then find out he had been literally played, his every move plotted, planned, and shaped so that he would take the assignment regardless, showed him that, as good as he was at playing games, there were others who were better, and didn't scruple at using people as game pieces to get the desired results.
It was the first book I read in the Culture too. And I loved it but I've struggled to get into the others. Is there one you would recommend that has a similar feel to Player of Games?
@@ArtemisScribe I don't think there is another that feels like 'Player of Games'. Whilst they all end with the situation in them being resolved (but not without cost to some characters), some end in a lighter mood, others, darker. The only one I can think of where the protagonist ends up in a kind of neutral state is 'The Hydrogen Sonata ', the very last SF book Banks wrote.
@@carolynallisee2463 Ah yes, the bodily acoustic antagonistic undecagonstring.
A tad on the hard side to play. The Hydrogen Sonata had me laughing a lot.
@@ArtemisScribe Try 'Inversions' for the least Culture-Culture book, or 'Excession' for the most Culture Culture book.
Exactly. As vast and incomprehensible as the game Azad might seem, the Minds of the culture are basically playing a far more complex version of it, over the whole galaxy. And neither their true motives, nor their identity is revealed.
The way Banks created tension in the train scene, when the other guy starts to suspect he has cheated, blew me away when i first read it. I was amazed at the way he solved the old problem of "how do you have conflict and tension in a utopian society" in that scene - in a different way than the usual method of setting the story on the fringes.
That's interesting because Azad in Arabic/Farsi/Kurdish means unrestrained, Independent, liberated, not imprisoned or enslaved or simply "free."
Who asked ?
Nobody cares.
And that is the cynical lie at the heart of this ruling system...
@@levimnm9152bro get a fucking life and please partake in some deep introspection
@@levimnm9152 u clearly do care😀
Interesting. Banks liked to put obscure cultural references in his earlier books. I think the name is not a coincidence.
I've always wondered how much it was influenced by The Glass Bead Game by Herman Hesse
Ghost in the shell! Laughing man. Didn't s ee
@@abdulhameedansari9459 I thought what'd I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf mutes.
Great insight! I think essential. I'm sure this book would not have been written if The Glass Bead Game had not been written.
Yeah was gonna say, its definitely worth at least looking at the glass bead game for a comparison.
I loved this book! The description of the game was so fascinating. The game was never entirely explained, but aspects of it were so weird. The biologicals. The room sized boards with terrain. I think I'm going to re-read this one.
I admire that move, to never explain how the game was played but to hint that it has components of every other game.
There is a reason I consider Iain M. Banks to be a genius, even if his actual writing ability is less then his creativity.
If you liked the game, definitely check out "the glass bead game" by Hermann Hesse, it's an obvious influence on this book and has those same game features.
@@JRussellDay Ulesss Banks mentioned it somewhere it can only be speculated that it was an influence. Some may stories and concepts have similarities but unless he read it. We won't actually know
This book was my gateway into the Culture series. Really enjoyed it
Me too!
Mine as well! Loved it! Then I was advised to go back to Consider Phlebas and follow the book chronology
Reminds me of an old hacker saying "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying".
Quinn, staying with The Culture, I’d love to hear your take on _Use Of Weapons._ This is my favourite of the Culture series, and Zakalwe is probably one of my favourite literary characters.
I like Quinn’s little added passion in this video. He doesn’t usually make his own beliefs apparent but something was rather triggering to him on this topic.
This is one of Elon Musk's favourite books, so much that his ex Grimes released a song called "Player of Games" and there was an attempt to make a film of it in the 1990s though I doubt that there will be a Culture based series for many years.
It is? That's ironic. Musk liking this book is like those right-wingers who enjoy Rage Against The Machine. They're both clueless that _they're_ "the baddies."
Also has a song about darkseid. The one who controls a large part of the world with what is more or less technology. Funny how that works, right
@@idc0459 Musk evidently does not control a "large part of the world"
Left-wingers have a very skewed perception and idea of power and how it works but that's normal for a group that continually misconstrues their own language by turning words like "privilege" into something they are not.
One of my all time favourite books. I'm a massive fan of all the Culture books as well as all of Ian Banks work. This was the second book I read after Consider Phlebas which I think is the best intro to the Culture.
Wait is Player of Games the best intro or Consider Phlebas?
@@neutral_10 Either really but for me Consider Phlebas is the best intro but Player of Games is also a great first Iain M Banks Culture book.
Player of Games is my favorite Culture book. Consider Phlebas was good, but this is the one that actually hooked me.
I'm glad you're making videos about it, no one else is and it's been my favorite sci-fi civilization for years now.
I just wanna say thank you for everything you talk about on this channel. I grew up on the rez, so a lot of significant sci-fi pop culture went past my radar. Thanks to you Quinn, I feel like I'm catching up amd learning so much about hidden themes and meaningful messaging. Thank you
I grew up unaware of most of sci-fi and also love this channel for the spot light it shines of such wonderful books
If u like this channel, u will surely love "Media Death Cult" channel too🤘
There are some good sci-fi channels out there, but I have a fondness for the attention to context and the appropriate mood Quinn brings to his content.
What is "the rez"?
Speaking for the poster… the rez is a term for “an Indian reservation”
I was pleasantly surprised to see "Uploaded 2 hours ago".
I discovered the series last year and have just finished reading the last of them. It's sad that such a talented author passed away before his time, but it's great to see that people are still talking about the Culture books :)
Loosing him and Terry Pratchett, both such great storytellers, so close to each other, was such a blow to my reading- desire for a loooong time.
Not passed before his time. His works moved me and made me question many things. His work was right on time. RIP Mr. Banks.
Best part of finding a new channel like this is now I have years of old content to catch up on.
Highly recommended to check out quinn's videos on Dune (in particular, the butlerian jihad). Probably some of the best videos I've watched on TH-cam ever
This and Use of Weapons were my top two Culture reads
Use of Weapons is the best fiction book I have ever read. Absolutely sublime.
Great Overview. It took me three tries to get through Consider Phlebas, but I breezed through this one quite quickly because it is so well written, and engaging. I would go so far as to say this is a better introduction to the Culture series as a whole than the first book.
I agree. I thought _Consider Phlebas_ was kind of just ordinary sci-fi, but _Player of Games_ really had something to say. And this one was my first Iain M. Banks novel, which I only discovered about a year ago. I'm surprised this author went right by me for all these years.
I’m nearly finished Phlebas, it is a bit of a slog in the middle but would make a great tv series.
Yeah Consider Phlebas is so different to the other books in the same setting. It's just a sequence of crazy encounters while the later books are great critiques of society and explore morality.
It's sad that people read it first because literally every other Culture book is better.
It honestly seemed like Consider Phlebas was more of a standard sci-fi story that guest starred the Culture, and that Iain liked the Culture then made it into a book series. I could be way off, but that's my impression of it.
IMB.....probably the greatest SF novelist ever. Love his stuff.
Quinn, I absolutely love everything youve done thus far! Now that you’re exploring the Culture universe, I would be over the moon if you did an in-depth review and analysis of Use of Weapons.
Thank you, Quinn! One of my favorite aspects of the book was just how Gurgeh strategy to beat the emperor was described. To this day it's still one of the most Cultur-esque things I remember from the series!
Excellent analysis. It is one of my favorite books. i read it first as a student and then again once I had spent years in a legal career and it hit more powerfully the second time. In some ways law is set up as a game and if you pay attention you can see how unfairly the system operates. We are not so different from the Empire of Azad...
I remember a race, in a Sci fi story, that had a society based on chance, sometimes gambling with your life. Every doorway used, calculated the odds of whether it turned into a guillotine & sliced you up, or not. The odds changed on where the doorway led, they dropped if it was a route to a high ranking job, or position, so less survived.
What was the story?
Definitely will have to find this one. I always loved the metaphor of how life is just a game. Your level of involvement effects the world around you and “a simple role of the dice” can instantly change the outcome. No matter how well you stack your deck, a simple coin toss can make your tower fall
Ya I know I’m trying to hard for a simple comment! Just love your content
I love this book. The way Banks makes you think about Empires and AI and our own society here through discovering Azad together with the Culture main character is truly fantastic. Very well written, I laughed and was horrified and fascinated chapter by chapter. There is also quite a bit of game theory in this book, and as Quinn mentioned, the connection between that and our reality.
“A guilty system recognizes no innocents." is my favourite quote from this one; one which will make sense if you read the book and connect some dots to our current society.
Loved the review, Quinn! When I need new amazing Sci-Fi to read, I always check your channel first for recommendations, and oh boy, thanks for those because I loved them. You are a fantastic source ♥
I haven't read sci-fi for years then started watching your channel and you have reignited my love of sci-fi!! Thanks so much for your content!!! I always get excited when I see you posted!!
I love sci-fi like this. Deep exploration of systems and people. I may start this series thanks to you. Thanks for the quality video.
That, Sir, was the best summing up and recommendation of PoG I have ever heard or read.
My favorite book of the series... Thanks for your insights!
The Player of Games remains one of my favourite books of all time. Stunning idea and so concisely delivered.
Your channel and messages are fantastic. Thank you for being honest.
What a great video to watch. And just before work too. Thank you
I just had meniscus surgery, being stuck in bed for weeks sucks. But I’m so stoked that you dropped a video!! It made my day
Get well soon 🫂
That's the worst, dude. Same thing happened to me back in high school. I hope your recovery goes well.
I love the culture series and this is at the top of my list of culture books. Among my favorite books of all time.
The metaphor, the tension, the scenes Banka builds, the game itself. A masterpiece.
I'm loving these videos about The Culture Series. I haven't read Player of Games yet, but I've added it to my list of books to read.
Im so happy i discovered you friend, your like " Yo wanna listen bout other universes? " Ur my new routine, I listen to u on my way from work to Home, ur videos are best after dark. Thank you for your work.
Recently re read this as part of MDC's Culture read along, I'd always liked it, but this time around I was really blown away by it. Just the quality of the writing, the way it hammers it's ideas home and how much fun it is. Almost as good as Use of Weapons.
This was Banks first full-length Culture novel and a powerful introduction to it.
I have to say that Flere Imsaho is probably the most fascinating sentient drone in the whole Culture universe.
I felt really sorry for all the things Flere-Imsaho had to put up with. But as a character I find Mawhrin-Skel more interesting 😉
I guessed Flere Imsaho's secret early on, just because I didn't believe in coincidences and that Contact would listen to Gurgeh's demand so easily.
No Consider Phlebas was the first book published, the fist story Banks came up with in the Culture series was Use of Weapons but his first draft was too complicated so he wrote Consider Phlebas and published that instead. Player of Games was the second published book though it is recommended to new readers as a better first entry to the Culture series than Consider Phlebas.
@@anguscampbell3020 Sorry, you're correct, I forgot about Consider Phlebas.
The one that reads least like a Culture book, is Inversions and my favourite is Matter. But my favourite Banks novel will always be The Algebraist.
@@davidwuhrer6704 Mawhrin Skel's full motives to have physically attacked and attempt to blackmail a Culture citizen fascinate me. The results give a devilish insight into the Culture's dark underbelly.
Listening to your video reminded me about how often Philip K. Dick tackles this theme in his fiction!...
From Solar Lottery (a regime seemingly based on luck to decide who is to rule)...
to Our Friends from Frolix 8 (a galactic-empire-sized game where people and regions are the stake)...
through The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch (hallucinatory game to escape a painful state of affairs as colonists on Mars), Galactic Pot-Healer (word games in a society devoid of incentives and purpose for many a commoner), A Maze of Death (featuring a sort of pre-Internet search engine in a world simulator),...
Thanks so much for bringing this work to mind! Now I must give it a go :)
I liked the idea that language heavily influences thinking.
It's a concept from linguistics called the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.
Gene Wolfe quite interestingly denies the hypothesis in his Book of the New Sun series. It includes an ultra communist culture on earth whose entire language consists of approved slogans from texts referred to as "correct thought"
Thing is, intelligent Ascians(name of culture) can still express meanings that exceed those approved sentences.
YAS! I love that you are doing more Culture stuff. Player of Games is great.
In the end, the lesson from "The Player of Games", was that Jernau Morat Gurgeh himself was but a piece that Flere-Imsaho was playing.
Had to exit as soon as I figured out what book this was about. Currently listening to it. Great work on the videos!
This is the first book in the Culture Series I read. From there I went out and devoured the rest. Ian Banks was a great writer!
I believe this is the best entry novel for the culture series. Then read the rest.
Love your videos! Would adore to hear about more of the Starflier in the Commonwealth series!
Thanks, Quinn, again
. This is my second fave of the Culture series, the top one being the Use of Weapons.
This is the first video of your that I've come across (thanks, /r/TheCulture!). I like the way you present the point of the novel and I'd love to see a deeper dive on this book (or others). You get it, and you present the social commentary in an accessible way and it'd be great to see you go below the surface
The player of games was the first sci fi book I read when I was like 12, it remains one of my favourite reads and one I go back to time and time again :)
POG is a little slow and unusual among the culture novels in how it focuses so heavily on one character. Most of the culture novels have several story lines with vastly different perspectives intertwined, but here we are following a single Culture citizen throughout the novel and a single linear story. Most of my favorite parts of the Culture novels are the crowning moments of awesome. Normally these take form as conflicts between ships and minds, but one of my favorites is in POG when Gurgeh has all but given up on winning a game until he learns what his opponent is watching on TV at night.
loving your culture lore vids, thank you x
Thanks I been waiting for another Quinn video.
One of the best most capturing books I’ve ever read
I’m so excited about a discord channel! What a lovely Holiday gift you have made us all.
Also, while you're looking at Iain M. Banks, I would definitely recommend reading his Iain Banks novel "the Wasp Factory" it's not sci fi, but it is sooo good!
yay! i have been hoping you would look at this one. Player of Games is a favorite of mine.
YOU bring the story to life very well, makes me want to revisit this novel.
i just finished this reading book last night and started reading Use of Weapons, thank you for introducing me to the Culture series
Yesssss. A quinn vid. Just in time for my break
Always here for culture content
YES!
This is my favourite Culture-book
Another book l have to read , you my friend have never made a suggestion did not completely enjoy. I appreciate you , your channel and your thoughts. Thank you.
I'm glad I tried it. I'm halfway through the first book and enjoying it. I was intimidated by its length, but it's easy to read and follow. Each chapter poses a mystery to be opened later. Without a good story to keep me company, I would fall back into depression and drug abuse.
Just finished it, great book! Looking forward to reading the rest of the series
This was the first Banks/Culture novel I read. So good.
I grew up in dc and had friends whose parents worked in think tanks. Big international politics think tanks would make literal board games which allowed them to figure out what the best way to respond to a particular scenario is eg, a terrorist group setting off a dirty bomb. Different players would take the role of different countries and this would act as a sort of simulation to allow the think tanks to develop policy. The games were complex in a way that makes warhammer look like checkers, I could never figure it out.
Later in life when I learned about cybernetics in college I had the horrific realization that every single facet of human life is getting gamified and simulated, from our social sphere to our economy to international politics. That’s what this book reminds me of, I will check it out
Thank you Quinn
The only time I get spoiled is when I watch your videos.
Thank you Quinn.
I would love to see you cover the Dark Eden series. Excellent world building and the society that springs up from the inbreeding of a single family is explored in fascinating detail
Please do: Surface Detail and Matter.
Matter features a few scenes that really speak to how fast and rough SC moves (it even has a "Trench Run"), when they want to. Surface Detail, is just. Well, crossing my fingers.
Oh the Hydrogen Sonata was excellent as well.
I very rarely reread books but I think Im going to make an exception for this, this review reminded me of so much I had forgotten
I recently discovered your channel. I love you.
I just finished Use of Weapons and it was AWESOME, definitely my favorite Culture so far (I've just read 1, 2, and 3)
Every book in the culture series tackles a different "unfair" aspect of the human experience.
I love these books for the thoughts they spawn.
Interestingly enough, there's a philosopher who argued that language is comparable to a game that we play (a language game). Our capacity to communicate through language is what allows us to reach abstractions, shared ideas, and thus a culture as opposed to a mere community. Which means that our society too is basically a game we play. A game of words.
I read this maybe 30 years ago, and it remains my all time favourite book.
This was the first culture novel I read, and it got me hooked. I highly recommend it.
Thanks Quinn, again a new book that caught my interest !
Maybe next time, you can cover something about the strange and mysterious worlds of Jack Vance.
He is one of my favorite SF authors and he has influenced many other writers.
The Dying Earth is one of my favorites, Vance is a great author as well. Some people, I would imagine, who read it might be uncaring for the mixture of science fiction and fantasy. As Quinn seems to focus of science fiction, it might not be his forte.
I have really enjoyed watching Quinns growth and success. Dude, don't hide your face. lol.
Great book. Great video. I think one of the points of the book is that the mentality the excels at playing games has to view the world in a reductionistic, mechanistic way. This puts you on a potential path towards cruelty and using others as instruments. So the Player of Games is a oddball who doesn't really fit in the culture - the machines come right out and tell him this. He is (unlike everyone else in Culture) always male and only attracted to females, for example. In the Azod he encounters an extreme society of people *like him* and has to confront the worst manifestation of his own type of personality. It's his challenge to be like the Azod enough to win the game, but to still be enough Culture that he feels what is wrong about them and opposes them. There's an interesting bit about how the higher you go in Azod culture the more sadistic you must be. The Minds of the culture had to find one of their own with the right mentality to win.
Excellent Brother!!!! Thank you. We need a Jenau Morat Gurgeh! Or an event like his win to hopefully wake more of us up.
Love your channel !!!
Fairness is an illusion as is Freedom ! ✌️💖☺️
Will watch later as I've got this out of the library to re-read it after reading it decades ago.
All this time wrestling with life as a stage and now I've got to start all over again thanks a lot scifi
Love the book, love the video and love how you have ebolved with your content
We've missed you Quinn, welcome back...
-Sarasti and the Captain
This book was my gateway to sci fi. I will always have a soft spot for it!
One of my favorites in The Culture series
Yeeeee, Upload notification!!!💙🤗
One of my favorites so far
Actually pausing this vid @ 3:10 or so. Gonna give this a read and return!
Loved this book!
I been lost without quinns updates
LOVED this book
Amazing book. Probably my favorite Culture novel.
One of my favourite books!!!
I like this book already!!
than you Quinn, another book to read on my list
Cool ring man, that’s badass.
I loved that book! Recommend it, too!
love this book. Do more Culture GSVs
One of my favorite books of all time, not just of the Culture series.