The Cost of Evolution | Xenogenesis Trilogy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2022
- In this video we will talk about Octavia E. Butler’s Xenogenesis trilogy, aka, The Lilith's Brood trilogy. The Xenogenesis trilogy is extremely thought provoking, it’s extremely strange but grounded in real world ideas. It’s Deep and thoughtful but also an absolute page turner. Keep in mind that this video will get into some spoilers for the series. So if you haven’t read the series, maybe don’t watch this!
Other Video on this series: • Xenogenesis (Lilith's ...
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You're the reason I've gotten back into reading. I'm currently going through Children of Time and another book from a local author. Thanks man 👍
Quinn got me onto reading the Three Body Problem. I've been looking for Children of Time, but nothing local carries it. I'll keep looking!
I got both Children of Time, Children of Ruin and the The Three Body Problem trilogy because of Quinn. Have read Tchaikovsky'a two books and they were superb reads. I start Liu as soon as I get the time.
Dude exact same. I got into audiobooks for the first time due to this amazing channel. Listened to children of time and children of ruin. They blew me away. Basically everything on this Chanel has really resonated with me. Im even a patron for the author of "Humanity Lost".
Translation…oh please please notice me please like my comment please please i need it to feel self worth….simp
I just seen this after my post lmao awesome!
Small but important issue the story isn't about evolution but eugenics and gengineering. Evolution is a very different thing than presented here.
The word "evolution" gets saddled with a lot of semantic baggage. All it literally means is "unfolding", which indicates change. What many really mean by the term evolution is _natural selection,_ which is a far more specific concept. I'd agree that eugenics and/or engineering certainly aren't natural selection.
its still evolution. Evolution is any change through mutation. Selective breeding does that, and theres no real reason to seperate even gene editing from epigenetics.
@@Mystravian The Definition is not the same.
@@comradecameron3726 Doesnt need to be just needs to overlap, and it does.
tomatos and bananas have evolved because of human intervention. it’s not natural selection but it’s evolution.
Akin is such a badass - I felt so sad for him when he learned the fate of Construct males like himself. He will never be allowed even the physically distant partnership of his human parents. There's such a heavy metaphor in that - the benevolent dictators messing with family structure, removing the fathers and replacing them with themselves (specifically, only non-Construct ooloi). I can't wait for Quinn to cover the third book!
Reality is cruller than fiction.
WAIT WHY NOT
I remember reading this in middle school. It was both fascinating and filled me with a sense of dread. The aliens we benevolent from their point of view... but then again, weren't most monsters heroes in their own mind?
Someone who wants to help you to death is much more insidious than someone who has openly malevolent intent.
We are the monsters. We wipe out other species in the process of propagation of industrial technological systems. We preserve only those plants and animals that benefit us directly. We say we care about environment, but when confronted with economic growth, it becomes disposable. We see it as progress in our mind.
Well. Indeed. And if you ask me, I'd rather go extinct than lose my freedom.
It's exactly like some dessert tribe wrote some holy book and put themselves as main characters here on earth
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo but even freedom in today's society isn't really free so idk if it's truly be that much different
It is so interesting to me how different people from different societies imagine the way human interact with aliens in diverse ways, I am living in Iran and when I write I reflect on the problems I face in human condition and questions I have about how societies should or do work dressed as scifi and alien encounters... and someone from the other side of the planet has completely different questions in mind, so different it sounds just as alien to me as it would to hear them from a being of another world... humans and how they work are fascinating things...
What were some of the different questions and view points?
@@KDbelieves well mine usually rotate around how next generations deal with legacy of their forefathers, human relationship with power, ethics, religion and loyalty, natural selection and how to bring our gods under our reign again... in the world I live in power and responsibility are the most important factor, how to survive a stronger enemy, how to gain power to defeat him and how not to become him in the process...
But in the Western world I see all manners of questions starting with " does it worth so much to..." and " now that we failed how do we fix it?" It seems our societies are on two sides of a hilltop... we are struggling to climb and only see the top, those people have passed that point and now question how to deal with the devils laying on their way back down from it...
@@sohrabroozbahani4700 Hmm interesting. As someone who was born in the west but has immigrant parents, I grew up in a position where I can see both sides.
I realized that the west are losing the values that the rest of the world still has. Their value of family, legacy, religion etc is slowly dwindling and so is their humanity...in a sense. The rest of the world see's the west and wishes a life of leisure like the west, not realizing that they are already living the dream.
It reminds me of this song lyrics, "half of us are chasing fountains of youth when it's in the present." They are chasing the dream even though they are living the dream. Our greatest weakness as humans is how we want more and more. If we stopped when we were at the top, we would be satisfied.
@@KDbelieves I have but one like to give to your reply, so far what I have discovered is the evil stealing our happiness is in our distance from balance, as chinese have a saying, when you can't find your way go back to where you started, so I started digging into our collective past and the further back I looked more and more it became clear, societies are born around an idea, then over time they become radicalised and polarised, lack of appeal of a middle ground makes them unsustainable and eventually the two sides go their own separate ways, just like a cell that grows and divides and gives birth to two new cells, past that point only natural selection will determine who was more efficient, because right or wrong again is more a matter of side picking it seems...
Writing is more than anything an exercise in thought, a way to play our ideas in a semi realistic situation and see how it turns out, and since it all happens in our head, and what happens in our head is directly dictated by our life experiences, that is where all this diversity of views is coming from...
@@sohrabroozbahani4700 I feel like you may be confusing yourself. We all deal with the same problems on Earth.
Got to meet her when she did a library tour for Imago. You've nailed what she wanted the reader's takeaway message to be.
Saw her at a library in NY for (i think) her last novel Fledgling - such a intellectually magnetic, one of those minds that it's awesome even just to hear her talk at length about stuff....
Octavia Butler, visionary bard, Your words ignite our minds, our hearts. Your stories challenge, inspire, And guide us through the darkest night.
Through your characters, we see ourselves, Our strengths and weaknesses, our triumphs and our pains.
You write of race, of gender, of power, Of the choices we make, the paths we take.
You remind us that we are all interconnected, And that our destiny is shared.
Octavia Butler, we thank you for your gift.
*LOVE FROM INDIA*
I read this series in college as part of a Sci-Fi and Fantasy lit. class. I suspect you were de-ranked for some of the themes these books could represent when viewed through different lenses today. The many themes are very nuanced and I read this at a time before the internet had grown to what it is today so there wasn't much information about the author readily available. I knew Octavia Butler was African American but there was almost nothing about her on the net back then. I had to extrapolate some of the themes by digging up what I could to try to know the author. She did a masterful job of crafting a story which likely had been influenced by the civil rights movement but never seemed to turn it into a full blown allegory about racism, civil rights, social justice et al. It seemed to me that there was a surface level tip of the hat, but the deeper message was about the human condition in its entirety. At least that's how it seemed to me because the feelings and depth of her message was that relatable. Great video Quinn. I've been watching you since the early days. I'm glad that you have not become a one trick pony with only GoT and Dune content. You've dropped some great additions to my reading list, and now I am compelled to read xenogenesis again to see it again 20 years after the first reading.
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" " Q " " . F A R from a one ---
--- trick --- pony . A M E N ! ! !
Thank God .
" Q " is a consistantly entertaining
story - teller . His narrative skills
make his shared view points . . .
. . . C A P T I V A T I N G .
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Great observation. :) Not the one trick pony :)
I’m not so sure it’s subtle. There is a very strong “assimilation” allegory at the very least. Dominant culture assimilating the client culture to the detriment of the indigenous client culture, with the justification being “Oankali genetics” ... that I don’t find satisfying. It was clearly a choice the author made to say that the one species is superior to the other at least I regard to its identity and culture. It’s therefore interesting that the story is propelled by a protagonist (Akin - I love his naming “A kin”) who is an exception to this “law” and is more interesting due to his blending... odd deliberate choices imo ... Moreover there are strong “colonialism” alagories present in the theft of native land and resources for the patron empire represented by the Oankali who are broadly benevolent, in some ways like the supercilious British in India or Africa who are there to bring “civilisation” to the indigenous people...
@@epone3488 But they objectively did bring civilization
@@Amfortas They destroyed the indigenous civilization. Remember civilization is contextual.
Interesting coincidence: the Oankali word for their ships is a near-homophone for the Irish 'teach isteach,' which roughly translates to 'house/dwelling-place inside.'
I was listening to this while doing busy work and as soon as I heard him say it, I was snapped to attention! Had to rewind and look it up phonetically, since I'm 3rd gen American-born. But what a fantastic thing to discover! Tho now I'm missing my Maimeó something terrible, lol.
I always felt this had an important thing to say about progress, the costs of it, and freedom and agency.
It's more complex than" choosing stagnation over progress," likewise it's often complex than "progress at all costs." Much like in reality.
Also, what may look like progress or stagnation may not be so. The option for humans to settle on Venus or Mars could be seen as progress. Building something new. It may get destroyed in conflicts. But, that is fine. There is an option for new things and new people. Like how in our day, many people go into the wilderness for days, weeks, and months. Its going back to an earlier time period of human history, but its also doing something new modern people haven't done.
In a way the Olakali are enforcing their own form of colonialism. Perhaps like European settlers saw indigenous tribes as self destructive and undeserving of agency so do the Olakali see humans
I feel like that's somewhat reductive considering humans in this series were going to go extinct without intervention.
@@visoriannull832 that's why I say "in a way," because I believe there's other interpretations possible
Well, it's better than how European settlers viewed other tribes. The ones they exterminated with diseases and guns.
@@francescobruno-bossio537 nah. Colonial Europeans viewed non-Europeans as subhuman. Olakali view humans as humans. Your comparison lacks nuance.
I have to remember not to read comments on videos
@@francescobruno-bossio537 I'm autistic as well. Are you trying to make a specific point? I have difficulty in reading tone online, so I'm not going to assume my gut feeling on your reply is correct. Could you please clarify?
That sounds horrible to not be able to touch another human and to watch as your species dies.
Part of the issue is that the 'third sex' of Oankali is actually the original organism highly derived and adapted towards trading genes with other lifeforms that aren't akin to self. One of the adaptations it's gained since it's primordial format was to directly insert itself into the breeding paradigm's of what ever it was trading with so as not to be left out of the equation.
A biological adaptation to assure that the organism wouldn't be treated as 'other' by the other parts of it's gene trading partners.
The whole thing about not letting humans keep a breeding population of humans was that they saw us as having 2 innate traits (Instinctual hierarchy and intellect) that would always eventually conflict with each other. With the world war they rescued the survivors from as ultimate proof of Exactly that coming about.
The fact is from their very alien perspective they were trying to be kind.
@@HimitsuHunter what they are doing is out of kindness yes but it is the right thing as it is the same as a mother stunting their child's growth, so if humans die because of the actions at least they would do it of their own free will.
@@madmank7881 Of course it’s doesn’t seem right to us, but an alien’s definition of “right” could vastly differ from ours, and it does vastly differ from our definition in this trilogy.
Quinn I am so happy to see the frequency of uploads increasing. For sure keeping content going is rough. I hope to see your views on more video media, it should be easier to keep a quick turnaround.
This was a masterly summation of the Lilith's Brood trilogy. The accompanying art was insightful as I had never really envisioned how the aliens and the hybrids looked. Well done.
Its good to see creators like you giving Octavia her due and deep diving into this series. Great work Quinn!
Thank you so much Quinn, every video of yours is an absolute pleasure.
Quinn, you are an absolute machine! Thanks for giving us so much amazing content!
I never liked the Oankali after finishing reading the trilogy. They reminded me of Arthur C Clarke's Childhood's End in which the development of future generations effectively meant the total extinction of humanity and everything that defined it. WIth the Oankali survival is only according to terms they define, and it is no survival at all.
It also doesn't help that they can't take no for an answer for anything... Bunch of rapist aliens :D
I immersed myself into reading this trilogy and I couldn't like the Oankali either. I enjoyed some parts of the novels, but as for its end, I don't feel satisfied.
I’m about halfway through the second book, and I have to say I don’t like anyone really. They’re all fascinating characters but I don’t feel fond of almost anyone. The oankali are manipulative and the humans are either fatalist or delusional. I have to admit right now I kind of like the Oankali better but I am also on the part where the stupid old lady is trying to get people to mutilate children, it’s an absolutely normal reaction given the ridiculous conditions but I hate it and I hate it more that I can think of people I know that might entertain the idea. It’s very hard to not be on a bit of human hate high reading that.
As for the “oh but human agency and survival on their terms” I’m kind of with the Oankali on that one, after we essentially genocided our species along with our planet to me humans lost the “I get to have it just the way I want it” privileges. The Oankali saved them and offered them a choice of joining or go live your life however you want except no children the old human way. The humans act like they’ve been wronged and had something stolen from them, again humans killed themselves and the planet, they had nothing. They act like joining the traders in exchange for food, safety, health, community and children to pass their genes on is some sort of failing by other humans and that it’s not enough, as if they deserved more. They killed us, they don’t get to have the cake and eat it too just because they don’t like the taste
@@AverageAwesomeDude "The Oankali saved them" If you continue reading you'll find out that they really didn't save shit.
@@Fankas2000 you mean the stuff with the ships?
Quinn keep them coming these mini-breakdowns are awesome and help to flourish the imagination and interests in SF!! Thank you!
Your Sci Fi novel recommendations have basically been required reading for me.
Beside that, I'll never understand book cover art changes. The Xenogenesis triliogy had some really awesome cover art in the past. The really awesome scifi pulp art covers traded for impressionist covers that don't even relay that the novel is science fiction. Part of the fun of finding new scifi novels is figuring out what the cover means in relation to the story. The impressionist art that's used in new reprints are just terrible for that.
i’ve seen a few comments saying this but you’re the reason i’ve gotten back into reading! i forgot what laying in a hammock and getting lost in a book felt like. been loving it. keep doing great work brother
droppin bangers last few days i freakin LOVE IT bro!
I recently found this channel via the algorithm most likely and really appreciate what you do! I'm a big scifi fan but have a hard time getting enough time to read anymore, but your channel has helped to find a lot of new books and new authors to add to my "read later" list! Thank you very much!
I am in love with your channel. I love how beautifully you present these stories, especially hers. The way you quote things. Aaaa, just very good, thank you Quinn!!
I'm going to read this series! It sounds intriguing, and maybe disturbing. I bristled as I listened to the "deal" that humans were offered to survive and "recover" from their deep mistakes. It's a dark manipulation, taking advantage of human survival instincts. To trade away the very idea of humanity for what sounds like a horrible outcome. I'm already challenged thinking about it.
It gets even more interesting, because as far as we know, the Ooloi sincerely believe they are offering us the best possible choice.
@@NevTheDeranged Aah, interesting! I missed, or misperceived that in his overview. I won't ask more questions so you don't have to spoil core stuff. 🙂
@@catbertz the books are extremely deep, I've read them almost a dozen times and I still find new things to glean from them. There's no way one video series could cover everything. I'm pretty sure there are literally college courses on it
I don't want to spoil it, but the ending of Adulthood Rites addresses this a bit and gives some hope for baseline humanity
Just added this to my wish list. Thank you for the exposure
This channel is such a gem❤
Your care in the production and narration of your videos always inspire.
Just letting you know that you are the reason i bought the audible version just a couple of hours ago (i didn't even watch the whole review just the first 2 minutes, liked and clicked off so I wouldn't spoil it for myself)...and wow...i dont think i would have ever picked it up otherwise...its so good already and the narrator is fantastic!!
I dont get notices when your videos come out but I look for your channel. You got me hooked after that 3-bodied problem series you started.
I honestly can't wait for the next video. I just found this channel and I'm bingeing all your vids.
Loving the content drops! You are the reason I am reading the Three Body series. Just started book 3. Will finish it quickly so I can watch your content about it without spoiling anything
You were the reason why I started reading.
I wasn't much of a reader before, but the way you present these works as if they're true makes me keep wanting to read.
You were probably the first person, in my life, who made a legit presentation to me for the value of fiction.
@Quinn's Ideas
The Three Body Problem - Totally Fascinating.
Please do more long form videos I could watch your content all day an never get bored 👍
Hitting us up with some great stuff this week. Great job Quinn!!
This is amazing!! NO ONE talks about Xenogenesis!!! Thank you, Quinn!!!
Thank you Mr Quinn, enjoyed your review as always.
Honestly I think you are one of my favorite channels on youtube and you always make me want to read more.
thanks dear quin, just started the three body problem, after reading the hyperion cantos on your suggestion. i love your content since a few years, and i am stunned to hear about books, i had never intended to read becomeing very interesting. thank you for the new input, you make my life more exciting. i am from berlin, so excuse my poor english
I'm late to this review and all your work. I like what you cover, I like your voice and I love your choice of music for everything. Thought provoking sci-fi and scary stories are calming in today's world. Thank you Quinn !
I want to say is definitely a page Turner because of your video I'm halfway through the first book of the series in 1 evening.
Thanks for inspiring me to read again it's been awhile since I've done it.
I feel like your video helped me reclaim a part of myself I thought lost.
Another great video. You've quickly became one of my favourite channels on TH-cam. Keep up the good work Quinn
I have wanted you to cover this for sooooo lonnng! I am so happy!
Been loving watching your videos every day after work man
I read these as a teen. Brings back good memories. Keep up the great quality content!
You do such a phenomenal job explaining this series. Thank you
Thanks Quinn, another recommendation for my e-reader queue. So far you've put me on to The Three Body Problem and Hyperion (everything else you've covered I've already read) - both have been fantastic (still working my way through the Hyperion series) - my wife is wondering why I want to go to bed at 9pm, it's because I want to read! You have amazing taste, and your insight to the books you cover is great.
Same, got into Dune, Hyperion, and now finishing 3 body because of Quinn!
YESS!!!!! LOVE HOW MUCH YOU'VE BEEN UPLOADING RECENTLY @QUINN!!! KEEP IT UP!!!
It’s such a fascinating trilogy - I’m super glad to hear more people discussing it!
I love your videos, you’ve gotten me back into reading too, I’m loving the three body problem
I found your channel yesterday and I’m so glad!
Hope you know how great you are Quinn! Awesome work
I just pass by here to click my like,i started the series yesterday and loving it big time,that description of lilith first encounter was awesome.
Quinn, my beloved, thank you for deepening my interest in sci-fi. Im not into books anymore, but I love your summaries and analyses.
Dude! You have been on tare lately. Thank you so much for what you do. To know what I’m reading next, I simply tune in to Quinn’s Ideas. keep up the good work.
You’re on such a heater bro last few vids have been great and coming out super fast
These books are so thought provoking. All of your sci-fi book reviews are so great. I need to start reading sci-fi again!
Dude, you've turned me on to some extremely grand, high -fantasy- sci-fi books I've never heard of as I'm more into Tolkien-esq fantasy. But my love for the Dune series had always left that door opened a crack. Tho I've always enjoyed Cosmic Horror in a sci-fi setting, those books tend to not be all that lore focused on a deeper level., unfortunately.
Thank you
I'm writing a webtoon/graphic novel in that cosmic horror vein but it starts more like a mecha then Dune and then cosmic horror.
@@RhiannonSenpai You cannot just put bait like that out there without giving us more Information senpai. Where do i find that comic?
@@aufgehts5 Roeyan Saga. On webtoon.
@@RhiannonSenpai I just read the synopsis and damn, I think I'll subscribe
@@RhiannonSenpai isn't mecha cosmic horror just Eva?
I'd like to thank you for work. Xenogenesis videos was the first material I've watched when I found your channel. Then I've bought the xenogenesis trilogy (unfortunately only as audiobook on Audible). After I've read it I was pleased by Butler's storytelling. Blindshot, Killing star and many other have been ordered as well.
I love your channel man!!!! You have opened me up to few great sci fi books already. I know they may be somewhat popular, but im kinda under a rock when it comes to sci fi books. Thank you!! Hope all goes well for you and the channel.
Notification Squad!!!!
💯
Oh HELL YEAH. I love this book series. Read it so much I've had to actually replace my copy more than once. Thank you so much for making this video!
yo love the consistent uploads g!! keep em up :D
This channel got me back into reading. Thanks yo!
Stories like this series with its look into a possible future are one reason why I love reading sci fi Stories 😎🤟
Great video, in addition to your first of the series. Looking forward to the final book video. Gotta say 10:05 that is a bum-**** ugly novel cover. The cover art for the ones on your shelf is sublime though, absolutely gorgeous
thanks for all the videos!
Nice! I learned of Octavia Butler watching Harlan Ellison interviews. Such a wonderful world of imagination in sci-fi :D
You're the only creator I don't listen to at 1.5x speed. You're such a great storyteller!
Tiktok atenntion
try dopamine detoxing, you might need it
I listen at 0.5x to give myself more nightmares
I can't believe there are people who actually do this
@@ahngelooh tik tok and other things have ruined modern people's attention span
I have just purchased the three body problem. I want to read that next along with this one next. I love this channel. It is absolutely one of my faves and my go to place for great reviews of the best new SciFi books out there.
Yay you’re covering my favorite!!! You’re my hero Quinn
I’m gunna add this to my collection yet another great vid all the series you cover completely compel me to read them XD
Your videos got me into reading, thank you!
I love this series. I enjoy your take on this series. More content please.
Haven't watched the video yet, but I will listen to that series now and come back afterwards. Thanks for leading me towards new interesting sci-fi.
Hey man! I really enjoy your content, thank you!
My boi Quinn been on a HEATER here lately 🔥 Loving all the uploads
It's really great that there are so many cool booktube channels and that they are growing each day. Yesterday I found this really cool middle aged man who makes very very suiting calm videos about older and less covered fantasy and sci fi books. His voice sounds like someone that does voice acting. It's great.
And there I was looking for Hyperion audiobooks when I discovered this gem.
Congratulations, man. Your work is very good.
keep up the content man. best out there
I think your channel is going to get HUGE!
Please do more content about Lilith's Brood/Xenogenesis! I just finished reading it a few days ago and found it totally fascinating and compelling to the point that I felt like I wanted my own ooloi...
Would love to hear more of your thoughts on this fascinating trilogy! I also intend to read more of Olivia Butler's work starting with Parable of the Sower.
Literally just finished the last page 15 minutes ago. It was wild and I loved every minute of it! How isn't this a freaking movie already???!!
Great video on a very interesting series. I'll have to pick these up sometime soon!
You channel is doing amazing 👏 I started watching while u made all the dune videos
These videos are always quality representations. Would love to see videos on The Night's Dawn Trilogy.
I would really appreciate a video on your thoughts on the bunker project in deaths end! Huge fan of your content. Thank you!
Finally a series that deserves way more recognition.
Wonderful to hear you talk about these books. Donald Moffitt's "Genesis Quest" duology covers a lot of the same themes of biotechnology, loss of agency, and humanity struggling to survive at the hands of a apparently benevolent superior species. Butler wrote better characters and imagined a bigger universe in some ways. Moffitt's story is more human in scale, but still very thought provoking.
In a different theme altogether, you should check out Stephen Baxter's Xeelee Cycle. It is an absolutely enormous universe of post-human evolution, and almost Lovecraftian (but not supernatural) powers fighting a war from the beginning to the end of time. Thank you for the all the wonderful content!
Great vid like always
Shared this with my spouse who is super interested in these concepts. Thank you!
Very interesting stuff! Thanks so much!
I'm checking out the other video now...
Good stuff brother keep up the good work.
Absolutely love your videos.
Thanks for speaking about this book. I read it two years ago and I must confess, I forgot many details you revisited here. A great book. I read the 1st and 2nd in Portuguese (I´m Brazilian) and liked them very much, but the 3rd i read in English, and I guess I missed something. I started reading the parable of the sawyer, and I highly recommend it. Thanks again.
THE HITS. KEEP. COMING!!!!
Another great video. Keep it up.
engagement comment! love your stuff so much!
Thank you! I red Children of Time and The 3 body problem trilogy thanks to you and they were awesome.
God, I love your channel. Please don't stop.