I had a friend named Rosy McHargue who played the c-melody sax back in the 1920’s and up. Met him back in the 80’s. He was 83 at that time and played well into his 90’s. He said he liked it for the mellow tone that it had. Frank Trumbauer said the same about the c-melody because he also played one.
@@mrgabifour4 Yes, like Scott comments in his video, the key pads are spaced slightly wider. I find the thumb rest is really small too. Super sound. I don't have a tenor so can't compare. Ser. No. is 71449
I don't think we should forget the C melody sax, it's a real instrument in its own right... I have a gold-plated C melody Buescher from 1923 (with a tenor neck). I play it with a Soloist short shank E tenor mouthpiece and it works great. it's closer to the tenor than the alto... I play many concerts with him and also jazz recordings
Scott, the "goes at my neck" comment at 9:50ish. I felt that my Martin did that too, but I attributed it to the strap loop being slightly too high on the instrument. I concocted a leader that lowers the strap connection about 1.5" lower and now it hangs very nicely. The balance point needed to be shifted downward.
I particularly enjoyed this ditty about the C. I have played the same one for close to 50 years. Started on soprano curved bell age 4. No longer have that. My C is a Buescher low pitch and is also 100 years old. Pretty much all the little things that make it a C are common in the 2 brands. I have always used a tenor neck and mouthpiece. I overhauled it myself about 10 years ago, an undertaking I will as soon leave to the pros. But it plays like new.. better than new. No factory would have spent near the time I did (due to my incompetence) lol.
I have a pair of 1935 Conns, a 26M and a 30M and the F to G thing is real. It's also where the octave hole switches in the upper register. I find the G can even crack or squeak when my embouchure is tired, it tends to need a little more support.
2:12 Plays Summer Time by Gershwin on a C Melody (aka C Tenor) Sax. The sound of this Sax falls in between an Alto & a Tenor Sax which is why they should make more of these things again someday (especailly those that extend lower than Bb down to a Low A, Low G, etc).
Hey Scott.., Thanks for sharing. I have a Sliver G.C. Conn C Melody with a straight neck and I love it. I bought it for like $75 while in California. It would be awesome to see them come back. I'm planning to start playing mind at live gigs once I finish the overhaul.
I'd love one. I played that same model years ago, and I'd love to get my hands on one again. It would be nice to have a C instrument to walk up to piano/vocal music and read without transposing.
My very first sax that was given to me in the early 80s was a Conn C and I always really struggled to play in tune in my high school band. I ended up selling it to a pawn store for $500 when I moved out of home. I only recently took up the sax again and got a Yamaha Custom Z tenor and OMG soooo much easier to play and tune than that old Conn!
Yeah, those C melodies are a beast to play. It takes a lot of practice and a little luck to get them in tune. There's no comparison to the modern horns.
Having a sax in C with modern ergonomics and intonation would make life much easier when playing with guitars. 2/3 sharps less in the key signature has to be good for everyone.
I have a 1922 Martin C Melody that I play. It was stuffy with a weak tone until I put a Morgan mouthpiece on it. That opened the tone up nicely. It also has seemed to respond to using a Bass Clarinet reed. Love this instrument!
Man, that is a really good example of the C Melody -- especially since you got a straight-necked version. Morgan Mouthpieces makes a new production version of a C Melody mouthpiece that resolves a lot of the problems with the original designs. If you are willing to put the time into it, it might not be a bad idea to make the investment.
Michael Ausserbauer has a fairly recent album of C melody music (also a TH-cam channel), and I like to listen to it. It's interesting to me that in terms of pitch it's much closer to the tenor sax--only a whole tone higher. But in terms of timbre it's closer to alto, to my ear at least. Maybe that's because people seem to prefer to use an alto mouthpiece. I imagine a lot could be done to develop better mouthpieces specific for the C mel.
Thanks for this! I just bought one of these (in the $500-$600 range, sight unseen), and it needs some work. I also found that an alto mouthpiece works best, but the low notes are a real struggle to get out. Some of this may person problems with my embouchure/airflow, but I don't have issues with my other horns. I don't think mine has been restored or tuned up. Looks like I'll have to dump some $$ into it.
Congratulation, nice horn. To me a range between Alto and Tenor sounds very attraktive. Not having to transpose is another plus. If there would be one on the market in good quality I would go for it.
I acquired a Conn C Melody saxophone by accident! But I love it!!! I had an alto and a music shop owner did an even up trade for my alto and he didn't know what he had when he even up traded me. After acquiring this odd looking saxophone I did some research. I have had this saxophone since 1995 mine is a 1929 Conn C Melody and it is exactly identical to yours Sterling silver when I acquired it it was basically in brand new condition. It has never played right because it's so old and it needs so many repairs. Many repair shops won't touch it because it's so old/ so odd and they don't know what parts it takes to repair it. any ideas where I could get this repaired I lived in a suburb of Minneapolis Minnesota. This even comes with its original case and all of its original parts including the mouthpiece were there but like you said alto saxophone mouthpiece is preferred or you get tons of muffling
2 years ago I bought a 1922 Buescher C Melody on Ebay. Got it at auction for...$250 bucks! Same as yours, silver plate with goldwash bell. Not at scratch , dent or ding on it. Amazing for a 100 year old instrument. Mine has the curved tenor style neck. It has the original wooden mouthpiece. And yes, muffled... and the palm key notes are really stuffy...hard to get a loud, clear, high note. I got an assortment of C Melody reeds and finally settled on a 2.5. I have a few alto mouthpieces which aren't much better. I tried with a friend's tenor mouthpiece and synthetic reed and it was MUCH better. I'll eventually invest in that setup. I'm a 54 year old guitar player but played sax for eight years in middle and high school. I can sight read but struggle to improvise on a sax. I got the C Melody so that I can join in on jam sessions and not have to transpose in my head. I can just picture the guitar neck and use that for reference. Interesting history of Conn, Martin and Buescher...Conn was the first major instrument manufacturer in the USA, based in Elkheart, Indiana. Martin and Buescher were two employees at Conn who eventually left to start their own companies...in the same town! It was actually Buescher who convinced Conn to start making saxophones after seeing the "new" instrument by Selmer at a Paris expo in the late 1800's. Later, when Buescher started his own factory he got the contract to make the Selmer Bundy line of student saxophones in the US. Although the Buescher brand name itself began to dwindle by the 50's and 60's....that Bundy that we all played in the high school band was really just a Buescher Tru Tone.
Most C sax music is in flat keys so good it's good practice for that. The biz key witdh is a bit too big for my confort. I love to play C sax with my 11 year grandchild which is learning violin. I have 2 Conn C saxes. The strait neck (like yours) and the Tenor neck C sax. Enjoy!
Really great sound on that horn, Scott. Another interesting feature on (some) of those old Conns is that if you finger a low D and lift the 2nd finger on your right hand (E), that's a D to Eb trill. Yours might have that too!
I just picked up a 1922 C melody Conn that needs an overhaul. It's a perfect candidate, though. About 99% original finish, with no dings, and just minor scratches. Super excited to hear it once it's done. This video made my decision a bit easier. It's getting overhauled. Thanks for posting this.
I have a Wurlitzer (Martin Stencil), two Buescher TTs (1922 gold plated and 1924 silver) and a 1923 Holton c-melody. The gold plate Buescher is my go-to for jazz-rock. All of them were rescues that I restored myself but with the proper MPC, these horns can sound really great. If you are interested I'll be happy to loan any of them (the Martin still needs an overhaul). But I am playing the gold Buescher on a regular basis with one of the local rock bands. And the G-trill key, it's a fun to have!
Hey, thanks for sharing this! I have conn c also. Sometimes I love the sound, but it is a constant struggle to keep it on pitch. Have tried a c-Mel and tenor mouthpiece, maybe i will try alto and see if that makes it pop more. Stay awesome, robert in wa state
I had a Conn C Melody I think was about 1917 years. Found in a basement and was in horrible condition (plating things were growing on it) It was not beat up. Refurbished it, removed the plating, lacquered it because silver prices had skyrocketed. New pads springs etc. It was fun to play. Intonation is what you have to work with on a C Melody.
Oh I found it in 1974. I did not have a mouthpiece but my good friend's father was a old sax player who played in John Phillip Sousa band back in the 30's. He rummaged around in his box of goodies and gave me a C Melody mouthpiece.
Hi Scott, I totally agree that c melodies should be played again. I have one that is over one hundred years old. I just need to find a good mouthpiece. Could tell me about and where to find the one you are using? Thank you and keep up the good job. Patrick
Congratulations on your new old New Wonder Saxophone it looks like it's in great condition. The New Wonder II. has better left hand palm keys but the pinky table isn't that much improved. The biggest improvement between them for me was the quality of springs and their design. An 8M with the keywork of a late 30's 6m would be a great place to start for a modern C tenor. While the Conn C Mel definitely opens up as you go from G to Bb there shouldn't be as much of a jump from G to F as yours has. It may be because of the Alto mouthpiece or perhaps the F pad isn't as open as it should be. The micro tuner is issue seems over stated although many people have called them problematic. Their purpose is to keep the chamber volume of the mouthpiece the same while you adjust the length of the neck for tune. They do have thread lash but if they are greased it is minimal also the pieces slide within each other similar to a trumpet so unless it is internally damaged you shouldn't have noticeable play or wiggle. No more than between the body of the sax and neck anyway. The reedstore carries C Mel Reeds that work well definitely not BSS (not convinced Jack to make C-mel reeds) but better than anything else I have tried. That said I normally use legere tenor sax American cut reeds on the conn eagle mark mouthpiece. With some practice the Conn mouthpiece should play reasonably in tune without much adjustment otherwise it may need minor pad adjustments. To make an alto mouthpiece work I think you would have to really enlarge the chamber and scoop the sides. Morgan, GS RESO and saxquest (The Tram) make new C-mel mouthpieces I would love to see you do a video on them. Thanks for your in-depth unboxing of the New Wonder Saxophone.
I especially liked the funk on C Mel. I liked bright sound. I’m strictly alto, tenor, sop guy, but keeping open mind on this C Mel. I may take the gamble!
Funnily enough, the best c melody you can realistically get your hands on is that one. The NWII. Just bought one, after having an old buescher that is fairly busted, but now I’m getting the nice one
I have a 1924 conn silver plated tenor handed down to me from my dad I learned to play on, he shipped it overseas during WW2 and actually got it back, the original case got ruined,it still plays good...
hey scott , if the tuner if fixed, then it would be more complicated to tune the sax, considering the mouthpiece is not the original. In my case works an old evette-buffet-- crampon tenor mouthpiece mid chamber size, the alto always ends up flat
Hey John, I ended up sending it back because I couldn't get it in tune, and they fixed it for me. I don't know why they didn't just do it right the first time?
7:23 That's not Middle F that's Middle F#, you're probally a half step off on the notes you're playing. The C Melody Sax (aka C Tenor Sax) is a Non-Transposing Sax so a C sounds a C (but it speaks an Octave lower than written).
I'd be interested if you ever solve the tuning problems with an alto mp. Its likely to have too small an internal volume and make a too short an overall tube. Possibly you'll have to get a SYOS made specially. All the C melodys I've ever seen have a curved neck resembling a tenor. The C melody resembles a small tenor. Yours is like a big alto! Was that common then? You may be right about the C melody making a comeback. Perfect for all those who never got their head around transposition. ;-)
They made a whole bunch of different versions of the Conn New Wonder C melody sax, and one of them was an alto style neck. I'm not sure what the difference in sound is between the two.
i think that they should make a place for it in a band because one of the reasons composers don't like to compose for woodwinds is because almost all of them are not in c concert. that's one of their excuses so this would be perfect. also they should make a part in a jazz band because the only time you cant play the piano part is in a band so it opens a spot out side of the band & doesn't limit the player it only band settings if they give it a part then you have a sax that can do it all
J.Babbit make a modern hard rubber and ebonite C-Melody mouthpiece. There were being sold on E-Bay last year, but not presently. Other modern versions are by Barkley. and MPC-Planet C that are on the 'Bay currently. Reedstore online sell modern cut C-Melody reeds in boxes of ten. Might be worth a look...
It's basically a Tenor Saxophone pitched in the Key of C & I think I know what was going on w/ the Original C Melody Mouthpiece. It was probally either clogged worn out, or maybe out of tune or something.
It doesn't really feel like a tenor to me. It's that weird space in between. The C Melody mouthpiece works fine. It just doesn't sound good or have any projection. I like the alto mp the best, but the tenor worked also.
Just a word of warning-I have the same sax and I just overplays my right index finger. The mechanics are different and I damaged myself while adjusting to the vintage horn...
I guess I'm not thinking outside the box enough to come up with compelling reasons why it should come back. As a solo instrument, you can play anything, I guess. But in a high school concert or marching band, where does it fit? What part(s) could it play from an existing score? So it probably remains a novelty item in my mind.
Yeah, I think it could fit into the novelty item category. However, there are tons and tons of people outside of school band programs that play the sax. One of the biggest growing groups of the sax community is adults taking up the sax as a hobby.
Well for starters... CMelody could play the piano, guitar, flute (lower of course) oboe to name some without changing the key signature, and nice to have as a doubling horn in the pit band just in case noone had the vocal part which would also be in C. I find that It's a hard horn for some stuck up musicians to take seriously for some reason. I also like to take mine camping and playing along on friend's guitar parts without transposing.
As a flutist faking the sax I would like to be able to play a note and get the sound in my head or on my piano. Also something darker than the alto but not as heavy as a tenor would be cool. But is any sax music available in concert C?
Hello Scott, I have a Conn C Melody sax, silver plated. Looks just like the one in your video but besides the tuner part of the neck, it has a threaded screw on mouthpiece. Can you tell me about this? Very strange. Was this a proto type? Please let me know. Thanks.
Hey! I honestly don't know 😁 I'm far from an expert when it comes to the C melody sax. I just learned a lot about this specific one from the guy I bought it from, John Leadbetter. I do know that there are A LOT of different trials and errors when it comes to the C melody. It seems like there are a lot of variations because they were always trying out new concepts. So, you will see a ton of different variations from horn to horn. You might try sending a pic to Boston Sax Shop or JL Woodwinds and asking a question through social media.They might make a post out of it, being as it seems like a fairly rare version of the C Melody.
Your tuning is due to using an Alto MP......Babbit has a modern MP, hell even the FAXX C-Mel MP is better than the wrong sax MP. I have NEW C-Mels that will run you around $1200 . Just let me know....and I have rebuilt Conns, Bueshcers, Kings
Well, I don't know. To my ears that mouthpiece makes it sound like an alto. I don't get that real C Melody vibe from my Martin unless I use a proper period mouthpiece. A bass clarinet reed seems to fit pretty well.
Yeah, I agree. I'm definitely making mine sound more alto-ish with my super modern setup. Once I get comfortable with the horn, I need to find the right setup.
I'm surprised John didn't offer up his C melody as an option. I remember him posting a video on instagram about one he made. Looks like it's on his youtube too: th-cam.com/video/35NKU4divLw/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=JLWoodwinds
Get a sax has a near perfect one for $6000 or you can get a basket case for $600 like he said and for 1-2000 have a playable saxophone. Also there are 800-900 "professional saxophone" that may be a playable saxophone or just a saxophone shaped object. YRMV What that comes to in Nigeria would only be a Google search away.
@@cyriludo1894 there are not an unlimited number of C-mel saxophones however during their heyday I believe every major manufacturer made them. That said if your are seriously looking for a C-mel I would find a good music store in your area that has a tech that is willing to work on them. Finding the tech may well be harder than finding the saxophone and this will save you buyers regret. Then have them look for you. This is because they (C-mel saxophones) are 90-110 years old and are going to need the TLC of a saxophone that was either played to death or left in storage for the last 70 years. As such will need a complete overhaul likely need parts sourced and a set of pads that will be dissimilar to the original thickness and construction. C-mels are great but any saxophone that old will have odd keywork. Holtons are a great example of that. No one supports them. The companies have been merged sold resold moved etc and none of the replacement parts are available. Finding screws etc can be a exercise futilely and often you will have to buy a parts saxophone Conn's are pretty good in that most of the parts will fit between them with minimal fitting. C-mels can be considered a vanity project in many ways. Fun rewarding and expensive and frustrating. Best advice though is find someone that will work on them before you find the sax so your not out time and money with only a sax shaped object for your efforts.
@@joegreen4089 that is the exact reason that I held off so long in getting one, and when I saw that John Leadbetter had an overhauled one, I knew it was going to be my last chance for a while. $$$$ I gut job rehabbed a 100 year old house, and I think the same thing would apply to a 100 year old sax, you don't know what's wrong with it until you take it apart, and then when you try to put it back together, it fights you the whole way because nothing is square or level 🤣😂
I like the idea of a C-melody sax (because of the transposition factor), but I don't think anything is really needed between the alto & tenor. Conclusion: relegate to history.
@@ScottPaddock I also don't like the shape of the C-melody, but I think if the sound was closer to the tenor rather than the alto I would change my mind and consider a remake worthwhile.
@@ScottPaddock Its not supposed to be. Its part of the C and F family. Now that would be contraversial. A revival of the entire C and F family of saxes.
I had a friend named Rosy McHargue who played the c-melody sax back in the 1920’s and up. Met him back in the 80’s. He was 83 at that time and played well into his 90’s. He said he liked it for the mellow tone that it had. Frank Trumbauer said the same about the c-melody because he also played one.
Yeah, it definitely has a more mellow laid back sound.
I have a 1922 Buescher C melody and it has no microtuner. I use my tenor mouthpiece with it and it sounds great and stays in tune.
I need to try a tenor mp and see what happens!
I have the same horn, same year! Use a berg tenor mp and plays very well....sounds great and is 'mostly' in tune. I usually play bari.
@@krynzedel1789Thats cool! I agree, great horn. Doesnt hold your hand as modern tenors.
@@mrgabifour4 Yes, like Scott comments in his video, the key pads are spaced slightly wider. I find the thumb rest is really small too. Super sound. I don't have a tenor so can't compare. Ser. No. is 71449
@@krynzedel1789 Mine is 108xxx I think. Great instruments. I have some vids of me playing it on my channel if you are interested. Take care!
I don't think we should forget the C melody sax, it's a real instrument in its own right... I have a gold-plated C melody Buescher from 1923 (with a tenor neck). I play it with a Soloist short shank E tenor mouthpiece and it works great. it's closer to the tenor than the alto... I play many concerts with him and also jazz
recordings
Scott, the "goes at my neck" comment at 9:50ish. I felt that my Martin did that too, but I attributed it to the strap loop being slightly too high on the instrument. I concocted a leader that lowers the strap connection about 1.5" lower and now it hangs very nicely. The balance point needed to be shifted downward.
I have a 1918 completely restored a year ago and sounds awesome and I really enjoy it. They should come back. I would get a modern as well.
👍👍👍
Not played a C Melody, but upgraded my student horn to a Conn NWII. Despite its age, I find some of the ergonomic's better, its a fun horn to play.
I particularly enjoyed this ditty about the C. I have played the same one for close to 50 years. Started on soprano curved bell age 4. No longer have that.
My C is a Buescher low pitch and is also 100 years old. Pretty much all the little things that make it a C are common in the 2 brands. I have always used a tenor neck and mouthpiece. I overhauled it myself about 10 years ago, an undertaking I will as soon leave to the pros. But it plays like new.. better than new. No factory would have spent near the time I did (due to my incompetence) lol.
Yeah, those old Bueshcers sound great too! I've never had the courage to take my horn apart 🤣😂🤣
Yes i play a C melody conn sax just like this one very nice!!!
I have a pair of 1935 Conns, a 26M and a 30M and the F to G thing is real. It's also where the octave hole switches in the upper register. I find the G can even crack or squeak when my embouchure is tired, it tends to need a little more support.
Yeah, I was struggling a bit with that G wanting to split. I'll have to keep an eye on it.
I agree that it should come back too! I feel like it will soon!
I've never heard a brighter sax sound than David Sanborn... until he played this sax.
2:12 Plays Summer Time by Gershwin on a C Melody (aka C Tenor) Sax. The sound of this Sax falls in between an Alto & a Tenor Sax which is why they should make more of these things again someday (especailly those that extend lower than Bb down to a Low A, Low G, etc).
Hey Scott.., Thanks for sharing. I have a Sliver G.C. Conn C Melody with a straight neck and I love it. I bought it for like $75 while in California. It would be awesome to see them come back.
I'm planning to start playing mind at live gigs once I finish the overhaul.
I'm hoping to bring mine out on some gigs once I figure out the tuning. It's definitely got a cool sound to it. For $75 you can't go wrong!!!
You'll find that it goes much better with a guitar and piano than a Eb or Bb Sax......it just 'fits' better
I'd love one. I played that same model years ago, and I'd love to get my hands on one again. It would be nice to have a C instrument to walk up to piano/vocal music and read without transposing.
Yeah, that would certainly make life a lot easier!
My very first sax that was given to me in the early 80s was a Conn C and I always really struggled to play in tune in my high school band. I ended up selling it to a pawn store for $500 when I moved out of home. I only recently took up the sax again and got a Yamaha Custom Z tenor and OMG soooo much easier to play and tune than that old Conn!
Yeah, those C melodies are a beast to play. It takes a lot of practice and a little luck to get them in tune. There's no comparison to the modern horns.
Having a sax in C with modern ergonomics and intonation would make life much easier when playing with guitars. 2/3 sharps less in the key signature has to be good for everyone.
Yeah, the modern build would make a big difference.
I have a 1922 Martin C Melody that I play. It was stuffy with a weak tone until I put a Morgan mouthpiece on it. That opened the tone up nicely. It also has seemed to respond to using a Bass Clarinet reed. Love this instrument!
Yes! Please bring back the C Melody
👍👍👍
Man, that is a really good example of the C Melody -- especially since you got a straight-necked version. Morgan Mouthpieces makes a new production version of a C Melody mouthpiece that resolves a lot of the problems with the original designs. If you are willing to put the time into it, it might not be a bad idea to make the investment.
I purchased a Morgan mouthpiece for my Martin C Melody and it made an immediate improvement in the tone and depth of the sound.
I would definitely buy a C Melody sax. The market has changed alot from 70 years ago. But it has to be designed as good as the existing models.
I have one of those too,a 1923 buescher saxophone.
Michael Ausserbauer has a fairly recent album of C melody music (also a TH-cam channel), and I like to listen to it. It's interesting to me that in terms of pitch it's much closer to the tenor sax--only a whole tone higher. But in terms of timbre it's closer to alto, to my ear at least. Maybe that's because people seem to prefer to use an alto mouthpiece. I imagine a lot could be done to develop better mouthpieces specific for the C mel.
Yeah, the alto mp fits it pretty well. With a tenor mp, I'd have to do some adjusting to make it fit.
@@ScottPaddock
Teflon tape is a wind player's friend.
Thanks for this! I just bought one of these (in the $500-$600 range, sight unseen), and it needs some work. I also found that an alto mouthpiece works best, but the low notes are a real struggle to get out. Some of this may person problems with my embouchure/airflow, but I don't have issues with my other horns. I don't think mine has been restored or tuned up. Looks like I'll have to dump some $$ into it.
Yeah, you probably have some leaks. Hopefully, it won't cost too much to get it in good playing order.
dígame donde lo compró?
Congratulation, nice horn. To me a range between Alto and Tenor sounds very attraktive. Not having to transpose is another plus. If there would be one on the market in good quality I would go for it.
Yeah, it would be pretty easy to make it a very popular model as well.
I acquired a Conn C Melody saxophone by accident! But I love it!!! I had an alto and a music shop owner did an even up trade for my alto and he didn't know what he had when he even up traded me. After acquiring this odd looking saxophone I did some research. I have had this saxophone since 1995 mine is a 1929 Conn C Melody and it is exactly identical to yours Sterling silver when I acquired it it was basically in brand new condition. It has never played right because it's so old and it needs so many repairs. Many repair shops won't touch it because it's so old/ so odd and they don't know what parts it takes to repair it. any ideas where I could get this repaired I lived in a suburb of Minneapolis Minnesota. This even comes with its original case and all of its original parts including the mouthpiece were there but like you said alto saxophone mouthpiece is preferred or you get tons of muffling
2 years ago I bought a 1922 Buescher C Melody on Ebay. Got it at auction for...$250 bucks! Same as yours, silver plate with goldwash bell. Not at scratch , dent or ding on it. Amazing for a 100 year old instrument. Mine has the curved tenor style neck. It has the original wooden mouthpiece. And yes, muffled... and the palm key notes are really stuffy...hard to get a loud, clear, high note. I got an assortment of C Melody reeds and finally settled on a 2.5. I have a few alto mouthpieces which aren't much better. I tried with a friend's tenor mouthpiece and synthetic reed and it was MUCH better. I'll eventually invest in that setup. I'm a 54 year old guitar player but played sax for eight years in middle and high school. I can sight read but struggle to improvise on a sax. I got the C Melody so that I can join in on jam sessions and not have to transpose in my head. I can just picture the guitar neck and use that for reference. Interesting history of Conn, Martin and Buescher...Conn was the first major instrument manufacturer in the USA, based in Elkheart, Indiana. Martin and Buescher were two employees at Conn who eventually left to start their own companies...in the same town! It was actually Buescher who convinced Conn to start making saxophones after seeing the "new" instrument by Selmer at a Paris expo in the late 1800's. Later, when Buescher started his own factory he got the contract to make the Selmer Bundy line of student saxophones in the US. Although the Buescher brand name itself began to dwindle by the 50's and 60's....that Bundy that we all played in the high school band was really just a Buescher Tru Tone.
Thanks for sharing some interesting info!!
Most C sax music is in flat keys so good it's good practice for that.
The biz key witdh is a bit too big for my confort.
I love to play C sax with my 11 year grandchild which is learning violin.
I have 2 Conn C saxes. The strait neck (like yours) and the Tenor neck C sax.
Enjoy!
Which neck do you prefer and can you hear a difference between the 2?
Ah thats interesting, re my comment. I've never come across a C melody with an alto-like neck. So they had alternative necks. Why?
COME BACK HELL YES 😎 COOL
Really great sound on that horn, Scott. Another interesting feature on (some) of those old Conns is that if you finger a low D and lift the 2nd finger on your right hand (E), that's a D to Eb trill. Yours might have that too!
I'll have to try it out!!!
I think they should return fast!!! 🎷🎷
I just picked up a 1922 C melody Conn that needs an overhaul. It's a perfect candidate, though. About 99% original finish, with no dings, and just minor scratches. Super excited to hear it once it's done. This video made my decision a bit easier. It's getting overhauled. Thanks for posting this.
It's a beautiful well made horn! If you're looking for a guy to do the overhaul, check out John Leadbetter - he did mine.
I would love to see a resurgence of the C-melody. I think it has a great sound, and can fill either the alto or tenor niche.
i think it should be revived, i think it would be cool if Yanagisawa, Yamaha, Selmer, Buffer, or P. Mauriat started making C Melodies!
me too!
@@ScottPaddock I think it'd be cool if you made a Bass Sax video too! I haven't seen many of those
I have a Wurlitzer (Martin Stencil), two Buescher TTs (1922 gold plated and 1924 silver) and a 1923 Holton c-melody. The gold plate Buescher is my go-to for jazz-rock. All of them were rescues that I restored myself but with the proper MPC, these horns can sound really great. If you are interested I'll be happy to loan any of them (the Martin still needs an overhaul). But I am playing the gold Buescher on a regular basis with one of the local rock bands. And the G-trill key, it's a fun to have!
Wow! Sounds like you've got a great collection
@@ScottPaddock, if you ever come to Colorado, let me know and it'll be an honor to show you my "museum"
Hey, thanks for sharing this! I have conn c also. Sometimes I love the sound, but it is a constant struggle to keep it on pitch. Have tried a c-Mel and tenor mouthpiece, maybe i will try alto and see if that makes it pop more. Stay awesome, robert in wa state
Yeah, my first 5 minutes was pretty awful. Then I started figuring the air out a bit, but it is going to take some serious work to get it locked in!
I had a Conn C Melody I think was about 1917 years. Found in a basement and was in horrible condition (plating things were growing on it) It was not beat up. Refurbished it, removed the plating, lacquered it because silver prices had skyrocketed. New pads springs etc. It was fun to play. Intonation is what you have to work with on a C Melody.
Oh I found it in 1974. I did not have a mouthpiece but my good friend's father was a old sax player who played in John Phillip Sousa band back in the 30's. He rummaged around in his box of goodies and gave me a C Melody mouthpiece.
Fabulous! I'd love to own a C melody sax!
👍👍👍
Hi Scott, I totally agree that c melodies should be played again. I have one that is over one hundred years old. I just need to find a good mouthpiece. Could tell me about and where to find the one you are using? Thank you and keep up the good job. Patrick
Love my C sax. It would be awesome if they were to make a comeback!
Congratulations on your new old New Wonder Saxophone it looks like it's in great condition. The New Wonder II. has better left hand palm keys but the pinky table isn't that much improved.
The biggest improvement between them for me was the quality of springs and their design.
An 8M with the keywork of a late 30's 6m would be a great place to start for a modern C tenor.
While the Conn C Mel definitely opens up as you go from G to Bb there shouldn't be as much of a jump from G to F as yours has. It may be because of the Alto mouthpiece or perhaps the F pad isn't as open as it should be.
The micro tuner is issue seems over stated although many people have called them problematic. Their purpose is to keep the chamber volume of the mouthpiece the same while you adjust the length of the neck for tune.
They do have thread lash but if they are greased it is minimal also the pieces slide within each other similar to a trumpet so unless it is internally damaged you shouldn't have noticeable play or wiggle. No more than between the body of the sax and neck anyway.
The reedstore carries C Mel Reeds that work well definitely not BSS (not convinced Jack to make C-mel reeds) but better than anything else I have tried. That said I normally use legere tenor sax American cut reeds on the conn eagle mark mouthpiece.
With some practice the Conn mouthpiece should play reasonably in tune without much adjustment otherwise it may need minor pad adjustments.
To make an alto mouthpiece work I think you would have to really enlarge the chamber and scoop the sides.
Morgan, GS RESO and saxquest (The Tram) make new C-mel mouthpieces I would love to see you do a video on them.
Thanks for your in-depth unboxing of the New Wonder Saxophone.
Hey Joe! Thank you so much for all of your insight! Sounds like you have had a lot of experience with these Conns.
I especially liked the funk on C Mel. I liked bright sound. I’m strictly alto, tenor, sop guy, but keeping open mind on this C Mel. I may take the gamble!
These vintage C melodies are great old horns, but they are a bit of a challenge to play because of the ergonomics of the key lay out.
Funnily enough, the best c melody you can realistically get your hands on is that one. The NWII. Just bought one, after having an old buescher that is fairly busted, but now I’m getting the nice one
I have a 1924 conn silver plated tenor handed down to me from my dad I learned to play on, he shipped it overseas during WW2 and actually got it back, the original case got ruined,it still plays good...
Those old Conns & Martins play really great with a big full sound.
I think it sounds squeezed with the alto mouthpiece. Would love to hear you play it with a C melody mp or even a tenor mp.
Funnily enough, I had just gotten an antique C-Melody saxophone before you uploaded this video. Mine is from 1914. Mine plays just fine.
That's awesome!
hey scott , if the tuner if fixed, then it would be more complicated to tune the sax, considering the mouthpiece is not the original. In my case works an old evette-buffet-- crampon tenor mouthpiece mid chamber size, the alto always ends up flat
I just got the neck fixed. I couldn't adjust the mp enough without the micro tuner. Should be getting it in the mail tomorrow.
Get a GS Sax C Melody mouthpiece; they’re perfect for it!
The mp that came with it was pretty terrible to play on.
Try it with a ténor Reed on your alto mouthpiece
Ha! Let me know if want that Micro-tuner fixed and fixed correctly (no wobble has ever been found in the necks I repair)
Hey John, I ended up sending it back because I couldn't get it in tune, and they fixed it for me. I don't know why they didn't just do it right the first time?
7:23 That's not Middle F that's Middle F#, you're probally a half step off on the notes you're playing. The C Melody Sax (aka C Tenor Sax) is a Non-Transposing Sax so a C sounds a C (but it speaks an Octave lower than written).
I'd be interested if you ever solve the tuning problems with an alto mp. Its likely to have too small an internal volume and make a too short an overall tube.
Possibly you'll have to get a SYOS made specially.
All the C melodys I've ever seen have a curved neck resembling a tenor. The C melody resembles a small tenor. Yours is like a big alto! Was that common then?
You may be right about the C melody making a comeback. Perfect for all those who never got their head around transposition.
;-)
They made a whole bunch of different versions of the Conn New Wonder C melody sax, and one of them was an alto style neck. I'm not sure what the difference in sound is between the two.
@@ScottPaddock Cool! Never came across that before. You'll make it play stuff it had never played before!
@@ScottPaddock AFAIK nothing, the lenghts and dimensions are the same. Something similar to curved and straight soprano necks.
i think that they should make a place for it in a band because one of the reasons composers don't like to compose for woodwinds is because almost all of them are not in c concert. that's one of their excuses so this would be perfect. also they should make a part in a jazz band because the only time you cant play the piano part is in a band so it opens a spot out side of the band & doesn't limit the player it only band settings if they give it a part then you have a sax that can do it all
Flutes, oboes, and bassoons are in C. But yeah, it would be nice to have more of them.
Heck yeah! Can’t have too many instruments. I wonder what a saxophone quintet would sound like?
I'm sure there has to be a sax quintet out there with a C melody, or at least some pieces written.
Nice review. When are you going to get the urge for a Conn C soprano sax?
I think I'm done after this C melody 😅
J.Babbit make a modern hard rubber and ebonite C-Melody mouthpiece. There were being sold on E-Bay last year, but not presently. Other modern versions are by Barkley. and MPC-Planet C that are on the 'Bay currently. Reedstore online sell modern cut C-Melody reeds in boxes of ten. Might be worth a look...
Thanks for the info. I have an endorsement deal with Barkley, I need to reach out to them!
Yes it should come back
👍👍👍
It's basically a Tenor Saxophone pitched in the Key of C & I think I know what was going on w/ the Original C Melody Mouthpiece. It was probally either clogged worn out, or maybe out of tune or something.
It doesn't really feel like a tenor to me. It's that weird space in between. The C Melody mouthpiece works fine. It just doesn't sound good or have any projection. I like the alto mp the best, but the tenor worked also.
@@ScottPaddock I guess the mouthpiece has seen better days and is probably worn out. If it wasn't worn out it would project better
I've got one it's a Conn C melody H its in emaculate condition its about 96 yrs old.
Just a word of warning-I have the same sax and I just overplays my right index finger. The mechanics are different and I damaged myself while adjusting to the vintage horn...
The key layout on this sax is CRAZY!!! I really struggle with it.
The intonation really wasn’t bad. I didn’t notice anything until he did the chromatic scale. Maybe my ears aren’t fine tuned enough?
I have a 1917 high pitch sax I want to restore. Is your sax high pitch?
I believe the high/low pitch saxes are in reference to the alto (I could be wrong), although this one does have an "L" stamped near the serial number.
I guess I'm not thinking outside the box enough to come up with compelling reasons why it should come back. As a solo instrument, you can play anything, I guess. But in a high school concert or marching band, where does it fit? What part(s) could it play from an existing score? So it probably remains a novelty item in my mind.
Yeah, I think it could fit into the novelty item category. However, there are tons and tons of people outside of school band programs that play the sax. One of the biggest growing groups of the sax community is adults taking up the sax as a hobby.
Well for starters... CMelody could play the piano, guitar, flute (lower of course) oboe to name some without changing the key signature, and nice to have as a doubling horn in the pit band just in case noone had the vocal part which would also be in C. I find that It's a hard horn for some stuck up musicians to take seriously for some reason. I also like to take mine camping and playing along on friend's guitar parts without transposing.
@@ScottPaddock I guess they'll have to add new parts.
As a flutist faking the sax I would like to be able to play a note and get the sound in my head or on my piano. Also something darker than the alto but not as heavy as a tenor would be cool. But is any sax music available in concert C?
You could just play piano parts or C parts for any instrument.
Bring back the C melody!
I know why it's sounding a C Sharp instead of a C, the Microtuner needs to be fixed. I hope it's fixed so that C sounds as C.
Dude i literally just got one of these
How do you like it? It's a bit of a struggle for me to get the sound I want, but it's fun to play
Hello Scott, I have a Conn C Melody sax, silver plated. Looks just like the one in your video but besides the tuner part of the neck, it has a threaded screw on mouthpiece. Can you tell me about this? Very strange. Was this a proto type? Please let me know. Thanks.
Hey! I honestly don't know 😁 I'm far from an expert when it comes to the C melody sax. I just learned a lot about this specific one from the guy I bought it from, John Leadbetter. I do know that there are A LOT of different trials and errors when it comes to the C melody. It seems like there are a lot of variations because they were always trying out new concepts. So, you will see a ton of different variations from horn to horn. You might try sending a pic to Boston Sax Shop or JL Woodwinds and asking a question through social media.They might make a post out of it, being as it seems like a fairly rare version of the C Melody.
@@ScottPaddock Thanks Scott. Wow! Another night owl!!!
@@davidstapleton1490 I'm currently in Thailand - it's 3:00 in the afternoon 😁😁😁
@@ScottPaddock Then I am the night owl. 1 AM in Utah. Thanks again.
I think is good IF it come back alto there is is a F mezo sax
I have the same sax
I got the micro tuner fixed so it's much easier to get it in tune now!
Your tuning is due to using an Alto MP......Babbit has a modern MP, hell even the FAXX C-Mel MP is better than the wrong sax MP.
I have NEW C-Mels that will run you around $1200 . Just let me know....and I have rebuilt Conns, Bueshcers, Kings
why is the sound so thin ? is that your specific sound with the mouthpiece?
Mine has been in the garage for 15 years. Needs restoration. Hard to find situations to use it.
Yeah, it's definitely a luxury item, as there aren't a lot of uses for it outside of just practice.
Well, I don't know. To my ears that mouthpiece makes it sound like an alto. I don't get that real C Melody vibe from my Martin unless I use a proper period mouthpiece. A bass clarinet reed seems to fit pretty well.
Yeah, I agree. I'm definitely making mine sound more alto-ish with my super modern setup. Once I get comfortable with the horn, I need to find the right setup.
Have you tried the verdot Barkley mouthpiece?
No, I have a sangiovese and really like that one, but haven't played the Verdot.
@@ScottPaddock do you prefer POP or Claude lakey?
@@MoonMm2xsxs I play the Pop 7 blue as my main mp
Magyko Scott 🍷🍷🎷🤙
Thanks!
i just got my 100 year old sax!
Welcome to the club!
I wish someone would make an affordable modern model.
Is there any alto sax in F-melody. Instead of Eb or C
I've never heard of an F sax
@@ScottPaddock I got it's an F-Mezzo soprano sax
I'm surprised John didn't offer up his C melody as an option. I remember him posting a video on instagram about one he made. Looks like it's on his youtube too: th-cam.com/video/35NKU4divLw/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=JLWoodwinds
where do I buy it?
It's not for sale 😁
Hallo wich Microphone Wireless it's OK for saxophone please.
I'm using a Shure beta 98H clip on mic in this video.
My mentor...I need it ooo. How much? Nigeria base
Get a sax has a near perfect one for $6000 or you can get a basket case for $600 like he said and for 1-2000 have a playable saxophone. Also there are 800-900 "professional saxophone" that may be a playable saxophone or just a saxophone shaped object. YRMV
What that comes to in Nigeria would only be a Google search away.
@@joegreen4089 yes but not original as the one he showed us
@@cyriludo1894 there are not an unlimited number of C-mel saxophones however during their heyday I believe every major manufacturer made them.
That said if your are seriously looking for a C-mel I would find a good music store in your area that has a tech that is willing to work on them. Finding the tech may well be harder than finding the saxophone and this will save you buyers regret. Then have them look for you.
This is because they (C-mel saxophones) are 90-110 years old and are going to need the TLC of a saxophone that was either played to death or left in storage for the last 70 years. As such will need a complete overhaul likely need parts sourced and a set of pads that will be dissimilar to the original thickness and construction.
C-mels are great but any saxophone that old will have odd keywork. Holtons are a great example of that. No one supports them. The companies have been merged sold resold moved etc and none of the replacement parts are available.
Finding screws etc can be a exercise futilely and often you will have to buy a parts saxophone Conn's are pretty good in that most of the parts will fit between them with minimal fitting.
C-mels can be considered a vanity project in many ways. Fun rewarding and expensive and frustrating.
Best advice though is find someone that will work on them before you find the sax so your not out time and money with only a sax shaped object for your efforts.
@@joegreen4089 would love dat.. and metal mouth piece too
@@joegreen4089 that is the exact reason that I held off so long in getting one, and when I saw that John Leadbetter had an overhauled one, I knew it was going to be my last chance for a while. $$$$ I gut job rehabbed a 100 year old house, and I think the same thing would apply to a 100 year old sax, you don't know what's wrong with it until you take it apart, and then when you try to put it back together, it fights you the whole way because nothing is square or level 🤣😂
Bit of a missed opportunity not to play some twenties stuff on it, even if just to hear how it sounds.
Are majority of vintage C Melody out of tune?
I imagine what they ask him how much I pay for it and the treble sounds too sharp for me, thanks
I like the idea of a C-melody sax (because of the transposition factor), but I don't think anything is really needed between the alto & tenor. Conclusion: relegate to history.
I think you are the lone relegate it to history so far, but you make a very valid point. It isn't THAT different than the alto or tenor.
@@ScottPaddock I also don't like the shape of the C-melody, but I think if the sound was closer to the tenor rather than the alto I would change my mind and consider a remake worthwhile.
@@ScottPaddock Its not supposed to be. Its part of the C and F family. Now that would be contraversial. A revival of the entire C and F family of saxes.
"This is a B"
*plays a C*
"oh no"
I fingered a B, not sure what sound came out 🤣😂😂
Sounds like a kazoo
🤣😂😂🤣 It does have a different sound, but a kazoo might be a little harsh.